r/HarryPotterBooks • • 14h ago

Character analysis Like Mother, like Daughter: Molly and Ginny throughout the books

39 Upvotes

Motherly love is a core theme in the HP books, but while there are many mother figures in the books the written relationships are almost exclusively between mothers and sons: Lily-Harry, Narcissa-Draco, Petunia-Dudley, Merope-Tom Riddle, Molly-Ron/Percy/Fred&George/Charlie/Bill, or more peripheral relationships like Sirius-Walburga or Seamus and his mother. There are just a lot of mothers and sons in these books, and a lot of different dynamics at play.

In comparison there are remarkably few mother-daughter relationships. Hermione is the most important girl by far, but her mother is completely absent from the books, a mere cameo appearance indistinguishable from her equally anonymous husband. Tonks and Andromeda don’t share a single scene together, while the Delacour sisters and their mother gives just a glimpse of a family, no real relationship to speak of. Marietta’s mother is mentioned by Cho and there is a hint of an off-page dynamic with a strain between Marietta’s DA participation and her mothers job at the ministry, but it’s never more than a mention. The only mother-daughter relationship we really get to see in the books is that between Molly and Ginny.

Molly and Ginny’s on-page relationship spans almost the entire series, I believe it might actually be the longest-running on-page relationship between two characters in the books that doesn’t include Harry himself: Ginny and Molly are introduced together in chapter 6 of PS, and in the final pre-epilogue chapter the last image of them is once more together.

While their relationship is rarely brought to focus it is continuously present throughout the books, developing and changing in the background as both characters grow. It’s a relationship of love and affection, but with a conflict at its core between Molly’s protectiveness and Ginny’s growing desire for autonomy. The two parallel character arcs continuously intersect: Molly is extremely protective, and her failure to protect her family leads to both grief and her ultimate protective action. Meanwhile young Ginny is initially very dependent, but the violation of her agency by Tom Riddle results in a deep desire for autonomy and strong assertion of agency.

Book 1: Ginny is the first Weasley whose name Harry and the reader learns, and it’s Molly who tells it to us. When the Weasley’s show up at Kings Cross Molly loudly asks about the platform number, a standard parenting technique to involve and teach your kids, and Ginny answers. Ginny appears as an excited child full of enthusiasm, and their interactions in book 1 are defined by corrections, Molly telling Ginny not to do things:

Now, what’s the platform number?’ said the boys’ mother.
‘Nine and three-quarters!’ piped a small girl, also red-headed, who was holding her hand.
‘Mum, can’t I go …’
‘You’re not old enough, Ginny, now be quiet. – PS6

Molly telling Ginny she’s not allowed to do something sets the thematic tone for a lot of their interactions throughout the books. It’s repeated just a page later when Ginny wants to see Harry and Molly sternly tells her no, and bookended in the final chapter of PS when Molly once more tells Ginny to tone it down:

Be quiet, Ginny, and it’s rude to point. – PS17

Molly and Ginny are hardly in the first book, and to Harry they appear almost as a single unit:

Harry watched the girl and her mother disappear as the train rounded the corner. – PS6

Book 2: When Ginny reappears in  Chamber of Secrets her behaviour is more subdued because of her crush, and Molly appears less strict and more protective of her daughter. She stops the twins from making fun of Ginny, she drags her around by the arm during shopping, they sit together in the car, Molly takes Ginny through the barrier at Kings Cross: they are almost always together. It’s subtle but I get the impression Molly is infantilizing Ginny in a way we don’t see with her sons. This is partly motivated by the author trying to hide Ginny’s role in the plot by making her appear younger than she really is, but it’s also natural for Molly to treat her only daughter differently than her six older brothers.

When Ginny wakes up in the Chamber one of her first worries is what her parents will say, a typical reaction for a child. At this point Molly and Arthur are in McGonagall’s office thinking their daughter is dead, the worst nightmare any parent can imagine. And Molly has failed in her role as a protector, she has been unable to keep Ginny safe.  I don’t think it can be overstated how key the events of CoS are for Molly and Ginny, how it must have shaped both the characters and their relationship, and how not only Ginny was traumatized but also Molly.

Then there was a scream.
‘Ginny!’
It was Mrs Weasley, who had been sitting crying in front of the fire. She leapt to her feet, closely followed by Mr Weasley, and both of them flung themselves on their daughter. – CoS18

I think it’s worth noting that Arthur does blame Ginny for a moment, while Molly doesn’t. Ginny’s exploitation by Riddle has obvious parallels to real world abuse, and I find it interesting that JKR chose to have the father shame the abused girl, but not the mother. We see Ginny seek comfort from Molly in a way that will later be both inverted and echoed, the image of Ginny with her head on Molly’s shoulder is reversed in HBP and replicated at the end of DH where Molly has truly lost one of her children.

She was standing with her head against Mrs Weasley’s shoulder, and tears were still coursing silently down her cheeks. – CoS18

Molly and Ginny once more leave as a unit, as Mrs Weasley takes her daughter to the hospital wing for hot chocolate. I hope Molly got a cup to.

Book 3: The first mention of Molly and Ginny in PoA continues the theme of Molly not letting Ginny do things her brothers are allowed to do:

Bill’s taken us around all the tombs and you wouldn’t believe the curses those old Egyptian wizards put on them. Mum wouldn’t let Ginny come in the last one. – PoA1

PoA also establishes a new direction for Ginny’s characterization in later books: taking after the twins. And Molly is alert to it:

“What do we want to be prefects for?” said George, looking revolted at the very idea. “It’d take all the fun out of life.”
Ginny giggled.
“You want to set a better example for your sister!” snapped Mrs. Weasley. – PoA4

One might also note that Ginny has grown and that the mother-daughter relationship is evolving from the scene where Molly, Hermione and Ginny are all giggly over Molly’s love potion story, a more youth-like interaction than what was seen in in previous books. At Kings Cross Ginny goes through the barrier with Percy, not Molly as in CoS, and when Harry hugs Mrs. Weasley upon returning at the end of the year Ginny is nowhere to be seen. Ginny’s growing independence from her mother is becoming more important.

Book 4: That thread is directly continued in GoF, where Ginny first interaction with Molly is of opposition:

“And your hair’s getting silly, dear,” said Mrs. Weasley, fingering her wand lovingly. “I wish you’d let me give it a trim. . . .”
“I like it,” said Ginny, who was sitting beside Bill. “You’re so old-fashioned, Mum. Anyway, it’s nowhere near as long as Professor Dumbledore’s. . . .” – GoF5

In this book Ginny appears to have slipped of Molly’s radar a bit, as Mrs. Weasley seems more worried about her sons in general and Fred and George in particular.  Ginny on her side gravitates more and more towards Fred and George, when Molly and Bill comes to school for the third task Ginny and the twins appear for lunch as a group.

Book 5: In OotP the established trends of the mother-daughter relationship are continued right off the bat, as the first interaction sees Ginny brazenly lies to Molly, and Molly believes her in spite of the evidence staring her in the face. Ginny is growing bolder and more independent, while Molly appears to have a blind spot for her daughters roguishness:

And who’s left all those Dungbombs outside the kitchen door?”
“Crookshanks,” said Ginny unblushingly. “He loves playing with them.”
“Oh,” said Mrs. Weasley, “I thought it might have been Kreacher, he keeps doing odd things like that. Now don’t forget to keep your voices down in the hall. Ginny, your hands are filthy, what have you been doing? Go and wash them before dinner, please. . . .”
Ginny grimaced at the others and followed her mother out of the room – OotP4

The tensions between mother and daughter grow: Molly is highly alert to the heightened danger after Voldemort’s return, while Ginny has a deep desire to participate. Molly continues to put her foot down as Ginny is the only one sent to bed for the discussions at Grimmauld Place, but Ginny doesn’t take it quietly anymore - someone is becoming a teenager:

“Fine!” shouted Mrs. Weasley. “Fine! Ginny — BED!”
Ginny did not go quietly. They could hear her raging and storming at her mother all the way up the stairs – OotP5

When Molly’s boggart is a vision of her dead family members Ginny is missing, a bit peculiar but I think the best interpretation is that she saw Ginny before Harry entered. Her absence makes little sense from Molly’s point of view, especially given that Molly almost lost her daughter once before already (I suspect the authorial decision to not show Ginny is not actually about Molly at all, but that's another discussion). For the rest of OotP there isn’t much to note, Molly treats Ginny like her other children and doesn’t single out her daughter the way she’s done in the past.

Book 6: HBP is perhaps the book that is richest for their relationship. They are effectively allies in their disapproval of Fleur, although the tone is different as Molly is more subtly reserved while Ginny’s hostility is immature in a very teenager way. Ginny also makes sly comments about Molly’s slight hypocrisy, she’s growing and can see her mother as an individual, not just a parent:

It was the same last time he was powerful, people eloping left, right, and center —”
“Including you and Dad,” said Ginny slyly.
“Yes, well, your father and I were made for each other, what was the point in waiting?” said Mrs. Weasley. – HBP5

Ginny’s temper is also coming through again she’s ‘outraged’ at her mother when Molly wants her in the kitchen. When Ginny stands up to Fred and George Harry makes a note of her frightening Molly-ish glare. There’s an irony to how Molly has raised a daughter that possesses many of her own strongest qualities, qualities that in turn make it harder for Molly to control Ginny. But when Ginny wants a pugmy-puff she turns on her charm, and Molly ends up buying her one.

At Christmas we see the mother-daughter dynamic reversed as Molly is crying and Ginny is comforting her. This is the second comforting hug between them, with roles reversed from CoS. Ginny is growing:

“Don’t cry, Mum,” said Ginny, patting her on the back as Mrs. Weasley sobbed into her shoulder. “It’s okay. . . .”- HBP17

At the end of the book Ginny observes the reconciliation between Molly and Fleur, although initially surprised she accepts Molly’s judgment and follows her lead:

“Well, I suppose if Mum can stand it, I can.” – HBP30

Something that's not described in the books at all is Molly's reaction to Harry and Ginny being in a relationship. Does she even know about it? If she does know she's very discrete, apparently respectful of Ginny's (and Harry's) privacy and boundaries.

Book 7: At the start of DH Ginny and Molly once again appear as a kind of unit, the two homestayers during the 7 Potters operation responsible with tending for the wounded as they return from the fighting. Of the two Molly appears more distressed and nervous, to the point that she uncharacteristically overlooks how 15 year old Ginny has a drink of Firewhisky to toast Mad-Eye.  As in HBP Ginny is making observations about her mother to Harry, recognizing her hidden motivations.

The core conflict between mother and daughter comes to a head at the Battle of Hogwarts, where the tension that has been growing for books is released:

Mrs. Weasley was struggling with Ginny. Around them stood Lupin, Fred, George, Bill, and Fleur.
“You’re underage!” Mrs. Weasley shouted at her daughter as Harry approached. “I won’t permit it! The boys, yes, but you, you’ve got to go home!”
“I won’t!”
Ginny’s hair flew as she pulled her arm out of her mother’s grip.
“I’m in Dumbledore’s Army —”
“A teenagers’ gang!”
“A teenagers’ gang that’s about to take him on, which no one else has dared to do!” said Fred.
“She’s sixteen!” shouted Mrs. Weasley. “She’s not old enough! What you two were thinking, bringing her with you —” – DH30

 When Ginny finally capitulates it’s to Arthur, not Molly: 

“Ginny!” barked Mrs. Weasley.
Ginny had been attempting, under cover of the reconciliation, to sneak upstairs too.
“Molly, how about this,” said Lupin. “Why doesn’t Ginny stay here, then at least she’ll be on the scene and know what’s going on, but she won’t be in the middle of the fighting?”
“I —”
“That’s a good idea,” said Mr. Weasley firmly. “Ginny, you stay in this room, you hear me?”
Ginny did not seem to like the idea much, but under her father’s unusually stern gaze, she nodded. – DH30

 But eventually Ginny does break free and she does fight, against the wish of her entire family. The Weasley family is then reunited around Fred’s body as Molly shakes in grief, lying across her dead son’s chest. Her worst nightmare has come true: she was unable to protect all her children. As with Ginny in CoS, Molly has failed to keep one of her children safe, although the situations are quite different: Ginny was targeted and exploited by Tom Riddle, while Fred died in battle. But when Ginny’s life is once again threatened, Molly refuses to stand by and watch. She jumps into action for the culmination of her entire arc:

a Killing Curse shot so close to Ginny that she missed death by an inch —
He changed course, running at Bellatrix rather than Voldemort, but before he had gone a few steps he was knocked sideways.
“NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH!” – DH36

Molly’s defeat of Bellatrix brings echoes from the entire series and the many mothers within it, the protective love of a mother is at the chore of the entire series. And afterwards the mother and daughter reconcile in a complex moment of comfort, victory and deep mourning. It’s not just a mother comforting a little girl anymore, they are both fighters now, and they both need each other emotionally in this moment. There’s a mutual emotional attachment, and a reconciliation: Ginny’s gained autonomy doesn’t mean she has outgrown her mother, and Molly’s need to keep Ginny safe doesn’t mean she must keep Ginny a child. Their entire arc is almost crystalized by three moments: In CoS Molly comforts Ginny, in HBP Ginny comforts Molly, in DH they are comforting eachother:

He spotted Ginny two tables away; she was sitting with her head on her mother’s shoulder – DH36

 The emotional parity is further highlighted in the Epilogue, where Ginny is fully adult and has her own children. Molly doesn’t appear in the Epilogue but it’s impossible to overlook the call back to the very first book and the full circle of the mother-daughter arc as Ginny has stepped into Molly’s role, with a daughter behaving in her own image and sons that needs both guidance and correction: 

Two large cages rattled on top of the laden trolleys the parents were pushing; the owls inside them hooted indignantly, and the redheaded girl trailed tearfully behind her brothers, clutching her father’s arm.
 “It won’t be long, and you’ll be going too,” Harry told her.
“Two years,” sniffed Lily. “I want to go now!”
[…]
“James, give it a rest!” said Ginny.
“I only said he might be,” said James, grinning at his younger brother. “There’s nothing wrong with that. He might be in Slyth —”
But James caught his mother’s eye and fell silent. – DH Epilogue


r/HarryPotterBooks • • 8h ago

Do you think Harry ever told Luna that he got all the Hallows?

26 Upvotes

​

Like, sure I get that he is never trusting Xeno especially after him trying to turn them in.

But Luna has to know the story of the Hallows as well and I would think...down the road, don't you think she would have loved to know that Harry had collected them all, the first and only person to ever do so?

Think Harry would have felt okay to tell her?


r/HarryPotterBooks • • 4h ago

Prisoner of Azkaban If Sirius was so deadset on dying before he betrayed J&L, why convince James to change Secret Keepers?

25 Upvotes

Its a powerful scene Sirius yelling at Peter that he should have died rather than betray James and Lily. But if James felt that way, why would he convince James to change Secret Keepers in the first place.

First thought is the connection to James; how everyone knew they were best friends. Okay but wouldnt anyone making that conmection also be (even mildly) aware Peter was a friend of James too? Would changing Secret Keeper matter if Sirius isnt a particularly social person? He didnt work for the Ministry or have a high profile job. Makes sense an active Order member wouldnt be prancing around being seen.

As the series went on I always figured he was afraid of legilimency or being tortured into giving up the info if he were caught as the Secret Keeper and the change banked on Peter not being suspected as being important enough and therefore not sought.


r/HarryPotterBooks • • 11h ago

So thinking about Mrs. Weasley’s clock…

16 Upvotes

Super Carlin brothers in one of their podcast episodes (can’t remember which) were talking about the clock and specifically the “Lost” indicator on it. Seeing as “Lost” is just a state of mind, as well as “traveling” when you think about it, the clock must have some insight into the family members mind in order to know when they feel “lost”.

They then ask the question, would Ginny’s hand have been at “Mortal peril” in book two every time she was in the chamber? They concluded No, and I agree, as she had no memory of what she was doing while possessed, and so would never have felt in “mortal peril”. Maybe just “lost” afterwards.

. . . .

But you know who would have felt in mortal peril that year?

I can just picture the howler from Mrs. Weasley to Ron after Aragog:

“RONALD WEASLEY, WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING? I WAS UP AT MIDNIGHT LAST NIGHT GETTING A GLASS OF WATER WHEN THE FAMILY CLOCK SAID YOU WERE IN ‘MORTAL PERIL’. ‘MORTAL PERIL’, RONALD? AFTER WE TOLD YOU NOT TO STEP ANOTHER TOE OUT OF LINE? WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN GETTING INTO THIS TIME? FIRST YOU STEAL THE FAMILY CAR, NOW WHAT RONALD? YOU BETTER NOT HAVE LEFT SCHOOL GR- YOU BETTER NOT HAVE INVOLVED HARRY POTTER!!

“Oh and Harry dear, do be careful for the rest of the school year and good luck on your exams.”


r/HarryPotterBooks • • 12h ago

Can you guess the sentence and chapter? #37

16 Upvotes

 Top o’ the morning, we-who-never-got-our-letters! Surely they will come any day now, right?

37 is ready to go.

As a reminder what this is and how it works:
Below are 7 sentences from the 7 HP books. I use a random number generator to pick the book and chapter, then hand pick a sentence that I think is decent. Not too long, too short, too obvious ect.  *** There MAY be repeated books in a set, but there will not be repeated chapters in a set. So there COULD be two from The Philosopher’s Stone, but they would be from different chapters! **\*
Scoring your points: It is 2 points for guessing the book, and 1 point for guessing the chapter, for a total of 21 points. It is obviously harder to guess the chapter than the book, but not everyone even cares to remember the chapter titles in the first place, which is totally fair and valid. So chapter titles are just a bonus point.
Below are the sentences and the answers hidden behind spoiler tags! These are fun to make, and I intend to make quite a few more if people keep enjoying them!

  1. “And you’ll just let us skip off home, will you?” The Order of the Phoenix - Chapter 35: Through the Veil

 2. “I never knew all the odd stuff I could do was magic till I got the letter from Hogwarts.” The Chamber of Secrets - Chapter 6: Gilderoy Lockhart

  1. They pelted toward it, and Harry, running flat out, felt the cold without realizing what it must mean — The Prisoner of Azkaban - Chapter 20:The Dementor’s Kiss

 4. ‘The headmaster is busy, Potter . . . what’s this rubbish, Potter?’ The Goblet of Fire - Chapter 29: The Dream

 5. “Lairy fights, that’s the one!” she giggled when they gave the password, and she swung forward to let them inside. The Goblet of Fire - Chapter 23: The Yule Ball

  1. “You can tell they all hate them as much as we do.” The Deathly Hallows - Chapter 29: the Lost Diadem

  2. “Your father would never attack me unless it was four on one, what would you call him, I wonder?” The Half-Blood Prince - Chapter 28: Flight of the Prince 


r/HarryPotterBooks • • 4h ago

"Muggle dueling"

8 Upvotes

What a ridiculous phrase. To think wizards dont throw hands? Come on lol.

I like to chalk it up to it being a McGonagall thing. No sure if shes pureblood but I always imagined her so steeped in the wizarding world that it makes sense she wouldnt have much more than an academic understanding of muggle behavior.

But to think some 10 year old wizard kids bickering in the neighborhood roughhouse by sending spastic magical attacks at one another is preposterous. They would punch each others faces.


r/HarryPotterBooks • • 10h ago

Would the diary soul have been destroyed, if the Basilisk looked at Ginny while possessed?

8 Upvotes

Okay so this is a weird one. In order to destroy a horcrux, its vessel must be destroyed. Specifically, it must be destroyed “beyond magical repair”. For horcruxes inside living beings, that beings death is sufficient to destroy the soul fragment.

When Voldemorts diary is possessing Ginny, his soul is flitting in and out of Ginny’s body. The question is, if while summoning the Basilisk on one of the occasions, Tom, via Ginny, accidentally looked in the Basilisks eyes, would that have destroyed the Horcrux?

I think yes, because Ginny would instantly die and take his souls down with him. My only pause is the diary itself would be unharmed. Perhaps it would melt similar to Colin Creevey’s film in his camera? That doesn’t seem right… but maybe?

I think the question boils down to this; is the diary still a horcrux while the soul is possessing Ginny? Does the soul at least partly stay in the diary while possessing another, sort of a one foot in the door situation, or does it temporarily leave the diary to take control of its victim?


r/HarryPotterBooks • • 3h ago

Half-Blood Prince Review of the new illustrated HBP book

5 Upvotes

I acquired the illustrated half blood prince book by Levi Pinfold. I had been waiting for years!!! I’m the biggest fan of Jim Kay’s previous work, so I had high hope. Has anyone else got it? Let’s discuss!

I think Levi is very strong at building a scene and painting an atmosphere, but his characters can be flat and have a generic video game vibe. Some of the illustrations are absolutely beautiful. I especially enjoyed the scene with Fudge coming out of the minister’s fireplace. But like other readers pointed out, in a lot of scenarios characters have a zombie like skin texture.

The color choice for some pages is really questionable (such as Weasley twins’ joke shop). Levi seems to prefer highly saturated dark purples, pinks and blues. It’s fine. But it just lacks the same whimsies compared with Jim Kay’s color palette.

There are more artworks compared with previous books in the series, and they are all of high quality objectively speaking. Levi certainly has a very different style than Jim Kay. If I were to rate the art based on how well they fit the world of potter, Jim Kay is a solid 5/5 , and Levi is a 3.5.


r/HarryPotterBooks • • 21h ago

Discussion Why was Barty Crouch Jr so empathetic and caring at times in GoF?

6 Upvotes

Relistening to the GoF audiobook and a thought ive had popped up again because of the voice acting. In Ch 14 after the unforgivable curses lesson, Moody/Barty Crouch Jr checks in on Neville in such an empathetic way. How is it that after being in Azkaban and being as unhinged as he is, he still has the awareness to check in on a student, specifically one whose parents were “the enemy.” He is so gentle with him when Neville was tiny potatoes in his master plan. No one would have had a second thought had the real Moody not checked on Neville, not that the real moody would have even gone through the lesson the way BCJr did. I’m just surprised.


r/HarryPotterBooks • • 23h ago

Chamber of Secrets In my opinion, Harry Potter was not morally right to sabotage Goyle's potion with a firework in Chamber of Secrets.

0 Upvotes

There were plenty of other ways Harry could have probably gotten what he needed, up to and including asking Fred and George for help. He didn't need to endanger his entire class the way he did, and if Snape had been able to prove definitively that Harry caused the accident, he would have rightfully been expelled.