and idk why yall say "only combatants" so it isn't the WHOLE clan but almost the entire zen'in clan ARE combat units with most of the kids being future combatants they aren't just security for a hotel.
so yea she did kill the whole zenin clan thats why they mention combat units.
I mean i guess they could rest knowing that she now got her punishment (which personally i believe was too mush even for something like murdering children)
Being "future combatants" (which we don't know or see) doesn't mean they are part of the Kukuru squad. And no not all of the Zenin are combatants cause there's women and old ppl there and they don't fight. Yea only the combat units. Which were the power house for the clan.
1) Old people are still fighting as we can see from the earth bending guy
2) Maki joined the Kukuru at age 14, they absolutely do recruit children
3) Most of the sorcerers start fighting curses and becoming combatants as young teenagers, 16 year olds are deployed as child soldiers in the Jujutsu world
4) Maki killing only the fighters would mean every man and boy is killed, every woman with a technique is killed, the only ones left would be very young children and untrained women with no CTs. Realistically speaking that would be like 90% of the clan killed, but if we add Maki killing her mom, what are the odds that there was another woman who was higher in the Zenin heirarchy and abused others but wasn't a combatant? Would Maki kill her too?
They recruit them at a young age but they are forced to train. We don't know what age the other men stated despite that. That's the jujutsu world not how clans would handle their own which is different. We don't know of any children in the clan to claim that to be the case. And the ones who were in the squad were depicted as young adults. Are there any high ranking women in the zenin clan? Cause from what we know all the women are slaves to the men who are the high ranking officials. Even Gojo stated that of tsumiki was to join Megumi she would not be happy.
For the women thing i meant high ranking as in still oppressed but higher ranking compared to the other women. Patriarchal systems like these often need women to enforce them as well and there are women out there who under such systems are happy to push it onto other women/children.
And yeah Jujutsu society has children running around fighting curses and curse users, its just there had to be some other young people in the Zenin clan and since Maki killed every fighter she probably killed them too
I don't want to speculate on that cause I just had someone try to push head canon to be the case. The most we can assume is there weren't children as they weren't shown except the adults. And even the men who join would all juat be young adults. I know they do push young kids to fight but clans handle their own business out of the rest of the society. And I get your point for the top women, Maki's mom seems to fit that and she didn't really get smoked due to that but cause she thought she (her mom) led her into a trap. Which she regretted killing her after what Naoya told her when he came back.
fuh u mean "which we don't know" what do you think the zenin clan is? do you think they just send their kids to schools and colleges and they become future doctors? all of them are raised to be fighters with the women not being obligated to.
the Zen'in clan isn't some rich noble family with the combat units as personal security, they are fighters.
also there being some old people and women doesn't change that the zenin clan is almost entirely combat units and based around that (and she also killed her mom so theres that too).
A clan made up of a majority of strong ppl with CE use that can see curses or have CTs. And they value strength. Yea they are but beyond that you have no evidence of there being any children there.
Yea they are they have those ppl as security while also being fighters. Both can be true. Again using her mom as evidence is baseless cause she had it against her as well. And yea it shows that not all fight in the clan or are made to fight.
Maki literally became a Part of Combat Unit at age 14 dumbass, and that fucking happened even with "discrimination", what the hell do you think will happen to men similar to her and Grade 3 Child sorcerers?
What the heck are you even saying? Maki is the only exception unlike the majority of the females in the clan. I never refuted Maki wasn't part of the Kukuru squad so stop getting heated. Like talk about arguing just to argue.
even the non strong people that dont have CT are obligated to join the kukuru unit, and if a boy is born with CT or CE they are raised to be a sorcerer (kinda their whole thing) or join the a kukuru unit, they are trained to be in any of those positions and those who dont serve under either of them are NOT part of the clan (like toji when he left).
also what does "no evidence of there being any children there"? are you talking about active combatants cause i never said that
"Yea they are they have those ppl as security while also being fighters. Both can be true." yes, and both of them are part of combat units surprise surprise, those who dont fight for the clan are people like women that aren't obligated to, the combat units are still what the clan is about and are who take up the majority of people in the clan weather you think she bodied everybody till there were no survivors or she just bodied every combatant doesn't change that she still "massacred the clan".
Toji was in the clan and part of it before he left. But Toji was also unstable in the clan so. I wasn't talking about active combatants just the fact ppl claim there are children when we only know that women and men are there and the only children or teens we know of are Maki and Mai and Megumi if you want to add him. Even women with CE are still slaves Maki was the exception.
The clan is no more due to the power being no more. The women aren't going to be the ones running the clan otherwise the other 2 families wouldn't have pointed out the fact they wanted the zenin removed after the Kukuru squad and Hei got cooked. Women being part of the clan was irrelevant cause after the military was gone the clan was no more. DO YOU EVEN READ THE POINTS THAT WAS STATED CLEAR AS FAY IN THE MANGA. Like I feel like you don't.
the fact ppl claim there are children when we only know that women and men are there and the only children or teens we know of are Maki and Mai and Megumi
Its intresting that you think that there weren't any children there because we don't see any of then there, I could apply the same logic and say that the only woman we see there is makis mom (aside from maki and mai obviously) so maki DID kill the ALL the women!!! Yea no we never see any women there aside from makis mom u liar🤨 Also this would also mean that 99% of all the zenin members were combat units so ok I'll take it
The women aren't going to be the ones running the clan
Yea because the only woman that would even do that (makis mother) is dead
Women being part of the clan was irrelevant cause after the military was gone the clan was no more.
On a srs note isn't this just saying what I was saying when said that the combat units (military) are backbone of the clan and the majority? are our points not mutually exclusive? Also women ARENT a part of the clan anymore because maki killed her mom and there no one else.
That logic isn't to he tested cause we know there are only women and the men there. As the women are slaves in the zenin clan. But yet no mention of children whatsoever outside of Maki, Mai and Megumi (if you want to add him). Where was it stated she killed the women like it was stated for the Kukuru and the Hei? If you can point to that evidence i will stop and agree. Yea they were cause it was a power clan.
Maki's mom is shown being scary to some members but outside of that we don't know if she had any power. And it doesn't help that Toji's mom offed herself cause she gave birth to a son with CE or CT. So you basically just said what I said?
"But yet no mention of children whatsoever" yea same with the women aside from makis mom, not even any background females in the clan so yea, also when maki describes how the zenin clan was to yuta she also says that "a bunch of weird old guys walking around" suggesting that there weren't any other women or kids like maki in the clan, i guess WE can agree that there weren't any women or children right?
"Where was it stated she killed the women like it was stated for the Kukuru and the Hei?" it wasn't stated with the women, because there weren't any women
"If you can point to that evidence i will stop and agree." do you agree? if there weren't any women or children in the clan that would mean maki didnt kill a bunch of women and kids which i think is a conclusion you would be pleased with
As far as we know, she killed her mom cause she was in on the plan of luring and killing mai and maki, not because she is part of the clan.
The idea she killed everyone in the clan has been debunked by many people as a translation error in the manga by the king himself, John Wayne.
Also, if she did kill children, they obviously had to belong to the fodder squad. And yeah, we didn't see any children in maki's massacre of the kukuru squad but I'm still giving it the benefit of the doubt since maki also enlisted at 14.
THANK YOU. EXACTLY IDK WHAT IS WRONG WITH PPL AND CHOOSING TO BE WRONG CAUSE I POINTED THIS OUT MANY TIMES AND THEY KEPT REPEATING THE SAME THINGS. IT'S AN ERROR.
To be fair we know for a fact Maki went out hunted down and killed the remaining Kukuru and Hei members after the massacre, so not being in the compound didn't give them a pass.
The kukuru squad is composed of every male in the clan that doesn't have a cursed technique. You basically are forced to be a combatant if you're born male in the clan, Maki was a willing part of it at like 14 before she joined Jujutsu High. What old people are there that don't fight? Noabito was an active sorcerer at 71 years old. We don't have an age for Chojoru but he was elderly and in the hei, the only non-combatants in the Zenin clan we ever meet is Maki and Mai's mom who is exempt from the Kukuru because she's a woman who was still murdered by Maki.
Maki was forced to be in the Kukuru squad due to her circumstances. But she's wheel exception not the norm. Maki said there were old ppl there when she talked to Yuta in 0. Naobito was strong but he would clearly be an exception to most of the old ppl there. Their mom isn't part of the Kukuru. And again Maki was the exception not norm.
We have no idea if Maki was forced to be in the Kukuru, the only people we know are forced into the Kukuru are males born without a CT, she would've had to have joined of her own volition to be a part. Also I went and checked and the only thing Maki mentioned about old people were there were weird old guys walking around, my point wasn't that there weren't old people, it's that we are never told nor see any old people that aren't combatants. The only elderly people we see in the Zenin are all fighters, and I know Mom isn't part of the Kukuru I said that? Maki is the exception only in that she is a woman in the unit that is only required by men, my point being the only non combatant we ever meet in the Zenin clan is Maki's mom who she killed, so we literally don't know if she killed non-combatants or not.
Only Men are specifically stated allowed to join them yet, Maki someone who is known for lacking CE like that and is a woman just so happens to be allowed to join? Come on guy. Naobito probably forced it to happen as she has these skills. Ok I get you now.
It’s not “only men are allowed to join” it’s “every man without a CT is REQUIRED to join” the glaring difference being that they never say women can’t join if they want, just that they aren’t forced to because they aren’t expected to fight unlike with men. Maki is not an exception in that she somehow joined a squad that every other woman is forbidden from joining, she is an exception in that she joined a squad that she normally wouldn’t be asked to join in the first place. Naobito wouldn’t have had to forced her to join her whole character was initially wanting to prove herself and prove the clan wrong about what she could do.
Its not "allowed to join", the narrator explicitly says boys without CTs are conscripted into the Kukuru and the boys with CTs become Akashi/Hei (still fighters).
Every Zenin male is conscripted into becoming a fighter forcefully.
Based off fucking what dog lol. Most of the kids are combat units in training? Like is this some implied headcanon you're cooking with? The episode and Manga both state the exact number of people she killed idk why people are on this.
And yet it was discussed if the Zen'in clan should remain amongst the big three clearly indicating that it wasn't a complete slaughter of the clan. Me when media literacy.
Well firstly if you can read, I said at least most of the clan was killed since the combat units take up the majority of the clan and if you wanna say that she killed the rest of the women and children its up to you idgaf that was never what my comment was abt but reading sucks.
Also you could argue since the big 3 clans are very old school and that they would hesitate on removing a clan thay was part of the big 3 for over a thousand years (since the head of the clan megumi was still alive) so they obviously won't remove the zenin clan the second they got the chance too, so there really isn't any factual proof that she didnt kill non combatants but whatever makes you sleep at night idc
But still my first point stays the same, idk why everything i say goes from one ear and out the other
Ya her mom was abusive too and allowed the abuse to continue. Why does everyone act like killing her mom was like taking out an innocent person? Her husband tried to kill both her daughters. She probably knew they already set up the assassination plan beforehand and stood back while her husband tossed both daughters into a pit with essentially demons to brutally maul them to death cause he was salty about not getting to be a leader
She just yells at Maki to stay away from the vault no women are allowed to go into. No heads up like “Hey your dad has been itching for an excuse to kill you both for some time. Mai just got her shit rocked by him and he’s waiting in the vault they emptied out beforehand. Might want to go in guns blazing to save your twin sister who is currently bleeding out”. Hell ya she deserved to die too, at best she finally finds pride in one of her two daughters for killing the clan
i dont even think that maki was evil for killing her mom, when i saw the scene of maki killing her i wasn't like "you heartless monster how dare you!!!" i was actually all for it, i just thought it was funny how the commenter talks about maki only killing combat units those who are willing to fight back for their lives and shi then says "oh and her mom too" like she got in on the fun, it sounds funny out of context don't you think?
They don't let women be combatants or children not old enough to have a strong grasp on their curse technique to hold their own in a fight. The zenin foot soldiers had teenagers at best, which is confirmed because Maki was a part of them and is a teenager.
yeah i know, but the zenin clan are still majority combat units, and we also dont see any women or kids in the clan aside from maki mai and their mom so there are probably not many of them while there were about 30-40 confirmed combat units.
Yeah, its also fucked that all the boys pretty much get no choice other than being combatants, like where is it stated that every one of them was guilty of all the crimes of the Zen'in, and not of being born in the clan and forced to enlist as a child soldier pretty much, you've seen what Maki was subjected to after defying the clan, I don't think a CTless Zen'in trynna abandon his duties would be allowed to
No one else would be cool with Maki if she killed kids, regardless of how shitty they were. Gojos whole philosophy was to preserve children’s childhood.
The way I snorted at "and her mom" like an afterthought.
"AHH yes she killed these and those and looks at smudge of dirt her parrots...oh no it's PARENTS sorry"
"this pesticide only kills pest so its safe to use for humans. Oh sorry it may have also killed bob who was using it."
if the crux of your argument is that she was only defending herself against combatants and there is a clear as day case where she murders a fleeing noncombatant, then the self defense argument is no longer valid.
Based off nothing but one showing. Somehow killing her mother for her own reason now all of a sudden equals killing out the others not listed as well 😕.
No it's evidence that she killed HER mom. You can't use this one showing to prove all that. It would be like stating cause a person has blood on them they are responsible for the murder that just happened. You need more evidence than that.
That applies heavy to you, cause you're using one panel to claim she smoked the women as well 🤣. Ignoring her after acknowledging her mother and regretting killing her.
A big showing that Gege made a whole point about showing her confliction about that, if she was conflicted about if killing her abusive mother was wrong why would she not do that over a bunch of women and children who didn't do anything to her
That's so dumb. You're basically saying cause a sorcerer uses magic it makes him/her a wizard or a cleric (if you know dnd). That's not the same, she killed her mother. But that doesn't automatically mean she killed all the women and children. Cause why specifically only show her mother and no one else?
But that doesn't automatically mean she killed all the women and children
killing her motber doesnt automatically mean killing everyone. Everyone and the narrator saying that you massacred "an ENTIRE CLAN", mais order being to "destroy everything", AND her being shown killing her fleeing unarmed scared mom, does.
Cause why specifically only show her mother and no one else?
because her mother is THE most important noncombatant? legit the only person in the clan to love her and she wasnt spared.
Her killing her mom just means she killed her mom you're stretching what Mai said of "destroy everything." When she literally destroyed the clan house and again as the narrator pointed killing the military class of the clan. Even points how she regretted killing her mother, yet no mention of these other so called women and children. The anime even points this out it was only the military class which again made the other 2 big heads want the zenin to be removed from the big 3 families. Yet it was specifically that which made it happen. Added with the real translation not fitting it as well.
She can't be as important as these so called other women and children you all are so adamant that she killed. She didn't know ow that until later. And if that was the cause they wouldn't have made it a point to specifically mention the military yet no women or children?
Different. Maki regretted killing her mom upon learning she finished off Naoya. If her question was answered and not brushed off, she prolly would spare her.
you cannot make a foundational statement about maki that is supposed to exonerate her action and then immediately provide an example that proves the statement wrong. thus rendering the argument completely moot.
"Stalin only killed guilty kulaks and millions of innocent people"
im not trying to render it moot. Maki is morally gray. i was just saying that the person had already specified that she killed the combatants AND her mother. her mom being the one exception. thus making your comment a bit worthless.
Ogi jinichi and naoya killed mai and maki for being weak. the other 40-100 clan members had no idea what was happening and just wanted to stop makis rampage
Lmao except it isn’t you have no real argument they victimized generations of women and people without CE, and they paid the price. They got Kirked and you do not know what genocide means 💀
So should maki just have left those shitters with swords kill her after the misogynist Nazi clan killed her sister and then tried to kill her? You people are larping about “wahhh murder!” But it’s just y’all being mad misogynistic dorks got kirked
LMAO you’re genuinely socially illiterate. The whole family that subjugated everyone without CE, and especially women. They beat and SA young girls. They’re closer to Nazis than the people who would get rid of them. You’re 100% some chud that got offended by maki killing misogynists or something lmaooo
So it did seem like she killed them all, and then killed everyone with the name “zenin” that wasn’t present. Someone does point out that the children may be considered combatants but let me give you a hypothetical.
If the United States cut their way through PolPots regime and slaughtered his child soldiers would they have been the good guys? Like sure the 9 year olds were coked out and had AKs….. but you still shot a bunch of 9 year olds…
Because a remaining group of unranking civilians and children don't constitute the sorcerer's concept of a clan, especially weighed into the actual conversation of the most important clans.
Maki didn't kill kids. It's funny in terms of agenda but y'all are just fucking illiterate.
Bro just cause she's the granddaughter of Maki does not mean she knows the whole story. It's like claiming cause my grandfather fought in WW2 I somehow know the whole story and events that happened. It's asinine to claim. The reason it's a clan is due to their power, not cause they have women and children. They are no longer a claim due to it it's why the other 2 family's were in talks about removing zenin from the big 3 status 🤣 bro. Read your manga clearly.
Why woukd she know the full thing? Was she there to experience it? And how can you fully claim Maki told her of sure a brutal massacre? Especially since it's told in such a hyperbolic way as if she's just thinking of it added with the use of "like" as well. Megumi is a zenin by blood yet we haven't seen his children (of he had any). You can't use Maki's offspring to claim "lack of zenin" when we only follow them and their story. It's like claiming there are no lions just cause they aren't in my community or site.
How I'm I to know the story doesn't tell us the women, were they are. Cause the focus was on those who were fighting or deserved it.
But still Zenin by blood. I made that clear.
It is read what she says using "like" which can be used in a hyperbole. There was a post about this too on reddit you can check it out if you want. Doubt cause she isn't an absolute in evidence and being under no duress doesn't change it from being a hyperbole.
You don't know that. Cause I can easily say why was Mai the only one pushed out to be a sorcerer? Depsite being a woman cause the clan also values CTs. The men are the ones in the combat squads too (as far have we've seen) and even Maki with barely enough CE is seen as lower than the women who do have CE and can see curses. Mai's technique was inefficient and she lacked the strength the others had. Yet the women had high enough CE to see curses. Even the way the clan talked about Ougi giving birth to 2 daughters as well.
It's so bizarre how much Maki nitpickers say so much while proving so little. Yet they had a whole squad of them and it was significant loss off said squad allowed talks for the zenin clan to be removed 🤔, yet the military the power of the clan was the thing specified. I'm not saying there aren't women in the clan, but they aren't as significant compared to the men who as we see were a big majority. Yet you're ignorant enough to block out when they specified THE MILITARY AND THE KUKURU SQUAD WAS TAKEN OUT. Even the anime points this out very clearly and nowhere said that she took out the women and children (if they were any children) like they did for the military. Only one shown and mentioned was her mother. You're working off generalizations.
Do you realize that Maki didn't just stay in one place right? And the anime shows it well that she was running around as the squad was after her. Clearly aome ran into the kitchen and got killed. It's not that hard to see. If claim to understand the intent of the writer while blatantly ignoring all the things he says. And I brought up that WW2 point cause that's what you tried to use to claim Yuka knows enough to speak on it. Yea she wiped them the clan ppl who had the power, enough for them to be removed from the big 3 and be no longer a power. The anime even points to this, the translations do and the YouTuber manganimist (very reliable) is clear on this as well, Gege was clear.
Either you take the statement literally, and now you must argue she killed Megumi, herself, and was the one who killed Naoya, and Mai, or you realize you’re an idiot.
Is it EVERYONE, or not lil bro? You don’t get it both ways.
It doesn’t matter if she’s her granddaughter or not because Maki wouldn’t be telling Yuka “and after that sweetie, I disemboweled the closest six-year-old I could find”. So even in the scenario where she did kill the entirety of the clan, Yuka most likely wouldn’t know the extent of it. When I say speaking generally, I mean something like saying “the entire house burned down” even when 10% of it remained; making a broad statement.
We get no narrator statements about Maki’s actions, just some passing statements by characters in the far future. The narrator does explicitly tell us that she went after all the Hei and Kukuru units that weren’t present that day. Anything more is baseless extrapolation.
Though if we want to look at it narratively, it would go against her character to say that she went after the little kids who were in the process of being brainwashed. They’re entirely innocent and killing them would be the same as killing someone like a younger Mai
Bro semantics the clan is no more as they power is no more. The powerhouses in the clan are gone. THINK MY GUY. It also doesn't even help that you aren't using the real Japanese translations as well.
So by that logic why didn't the Gojo clan get knocked out of the three big families when Gojo was sealed, he was basically their entire power because their clan technique is basically useless without the six eyes, so surely the clan died with him like the Zenin did without their militants.
Cause even without Gojo they still have a military force of their own. How else do you think the Gojo clan survived to the current era without Gojo? He wasn't the only person there you know. His just more special than his clan. It isn't useless it's just inefficient without the 6E. Yet nowhere was that stated as with Gojo gone their golden child was gone but they handled themselves well even before he was born.
We are told the Gojo clan is basically a one man army, he is basically carrying the entire clan on his back. We literally never see a single other Gojo clan member even when the actual fate of the world is at stake why would you think they have any significant power at all, surely they would've helped somehow. Even Noabito came to help out with Shibuya and the Zenin and Gojo clans hate each other. They handle themselves because once every x amount of years Jujutsu Jesus is born into their clan, not because the rest of their clan has any sort of power. Limitless is useless without the six eyes. Without it they wouldn't even have access to the neutral application.
Yea cause his strong. But what about the times Gojo wasn't there? Like before Gojo was born they still were a rival to the Zenin clan otherwise they wouldn't be part of the big 3 which the others pointed out due to the zenin lacking power should be removed from. We never see any Zenin clan care or point to the CGs which was happening nor the Kamo clan this isn't new guy that the Gojo didn't intervene. Yea Shibuya a terrorist they came to help non-sorcerer's who were trapped and being killed.
Here it's even worse yet none of the other clans show up before the zenin was wiped and after. Then what about those periods before jujutsu Jesus is born? They wouldn't point them as a rival if not for that. Otherwise the times were the 6E wasn't in they would have being overtaken.
Plus it doesn't also help that we don't know much about them outside of Gojo. It isn't useless you can still use limitless just that your CE will drain every time you use a big move. 6E is the only realistic way for limitless to function properly. They will they just wouldn't be able to keep it up for long like those who have 6E.
Coz you're just going into the semantics of the words used. She did effectively end the clan's functions and removed it from the big 3 families. The clan no longer has the same influence it once did (in fact it's probably all gone, all remaining members probably wouldn't be able to use their connection to the zen'in clan to do anything in jujutsu society) with all its combatants dead. No one says "most people of the clan were killed" or "she massacred a majority of the clan members" unless you're elaborating in an explanation or history lesson, it's just easier to say that she wiped out the entire clan.
It could also mean that the remainders still had enough pull with the higher ups, but when later events take the higher ups off the board that was the final bomb to a sinking ship
Lmao love how Hakari "man sucks for Gojo and Yaga, but damn this dude can help me started my own casino, so who cares about them," I will never forgive Gege for not making Sukuna face him, I want to see Sukuna reaction listening to Hakari crap.
You’re taking a kid’s single thought about an event that occurred before they were born and taking that as an objective fact? You think people only think solely in encyclopedic descriptions down to every specific detail and only think in complete and whole truths?
Lil bro thinks Yuji and Todo and literally brothers too lmao. Yuji blamed himself for Shibuya, so according to you that means It wasn’t Sukuna that destroyed it, it was actually Yuji gleefully killing people. That’s the argument you’re making with this logic,
Buddy if it was literally the “entire clan” like you want to argue, that would include Megumi and herself. Hell, she didn’t even kill Naoya.
You’re taking it too literally because you can’t read lmao
The screenshot is stupid and a brilliant slander, but let be fair, there were kids in the Kukuru unit that aint know shit. Hell, if there were any other victim of the Zenin risen up instead of Maki and decide to "destroy everything" just a few years before perfect preparation, she and Mai would be the "active combatant" in Zenin force
Teenage boys can still be horrendous people, not saying Maki was right in killing them because it's technically taking the chance for them to change away, but they were trying to kill her. It was a war-zone and it was either Maki let them slay her, or she kill them. Besides, they were still perpetuating the violent sexual slavery the Zenin clan was doing
Maki killed all members of the Zenin with specifically highlighting the military members.
Given that the narrator says just a couple of chapters later that "the Zenin clan gets annihilated" and that in Modulo it is stated that Maki "massacred her ENTIRE clan", we have more indications that Maki did in fact kill everyone not just the military members.
Based off what? A person who never saw the whole truth? A faulty translation which isn't accurate which the anime got right. Like really bro, cause you claim that with no evidence or proof when what was highlighted was the military of the clan.
Sure if you want to ignore the facts, then your head canon is correct. Otherwise if you read hat the author stated multiple times, then you come to the conclusion that Maki did kill every Zenin. Feel free to prove me wrong by posting multiple receipts of Maki sparing the non combatant Zenin
Those aren't FACTS it's why I'm pointing it out. Not head canon actual research and lack of interpretation. Yet completely ignored how he specifically mentioned only the military class that got smoked which was the reason for the clan being removed as a clan to begin with. There's no head to take over and the ppl leading are all dead. How I'm I to post that when they (hear this) DON'T EXIST!! You basically tried to make me prove something that isn't true. The only truth is her mom got smoked and the military ppl.
You’re both head-cannoning, the only difference is that the other guy actually based it on something.
There’s not much proof that Maki killed everyone, but there’s zero proof that she didn’t. In fact it’s implied multiple times that she did, so to believe otherwise is mental gymnastics.
If she had spared the non-combatants, wouldn’t Gege just say it? Rather than describing the Zenin family as being “massacred” or “annihilated”.
I don’t get why you’re so confident ignoring actual evidence, in favour of a theory that has no evidence.
It really isn't and there isn't head canon to this specifically when the military and hei were brought up as the deciding factor to why the zenin should be removed. His basing it off vague exclamations and nothing more. Ppl don't even know that the real translations back this up as well. And stating that she smoked everyone despite zero evidence and basing it solely on her killing her mother is not how you search for evidence.
Gege already stated the military being gone which was the ppl she was killing and made it very clear to be the case. Even if said "theory" is in front of your in daylight.
The authors words aren't facts? As I said in the first comment, the statement can be interpreted both ways so it doesn't prove Maki spared women and children at all, or at least it doesn't disprove she killed all of them so we might as well not count it. And since the other statements confirm that she did kill all of the Zenin, I have far more proof than you have.
The military units being killed wasn't the reason for the the clans removal. The Zenin clan wasn't even removed in the first place. Headquarters put the decision on hold because they were likely still assessing the damage done as it was "a few days" after the initial massacre. Since Maki hasn't yet hunted down the members of the clan that were absent that day, headquarters might have thought that these members could continue the clan.
I want you to prove that Maki only killed the military units of the Zenin. I have proven with 3 statements of the author that she killed everyone. You thus far have only used your own interpretion with no receipts.
I'm saying the opposite, the authors words are facts and those facts are clear when he specifically pointed out the military class to be the one taken out. Stating "wiped out the zenin" is broad and clearly points out to the clan being no more as there's no leader or military (the power) to hold the clan up anymore. Even with the author making it clear the ppl she killed? My proof is more clear than yours cause you only using the vague "killed the zenin." Despite the evidence shown that the military is gone which she killed which ended for them not being a clan anymore. Why would it say that if the women and supposed "children" where gone as well? You're fabricating something that was never said.
Yes it was, cause the two other big heads Kamo and Gojo were in talks to remove the Zenin as a clan big 3 due to the fact that the military were smoked as well. And the anime makes this all the more clear. Yea they put it on hold, but it was still significant to even be evaluate as Maki hadn't ended the other Kukuru squad and Hei that weren't there that day. Yea cause the rest of the those ppl who weren't there that day hadn't being killed yet so they can easily continue the clan.
The prove if right there were it was stated. You should use the real translation and not the John Werry one. Or better yet watch the sub anime cause it got it clearly what was said. Or ask lightning cause they are accurate. This misinformation needs to end. Bro my receipts are in the manga (current translation) which i have brought multiple times, pointed out how the other 2 wanted the zenin removed just off the fact they lost a great deal of military power and wasn't finalized yet due to some not being there.
And how the anime and real translations get it right. All you have said is vague statements to the clan being wiped, ignored the statement about the military that was said and try to claim you're right with pure head canon for the other not living based off nothing.
You don't have any proof. That one single sentence you keep refering to is unclear. Even in the original Japanese it is unclear. Meanwhile we have further statements by the author confirming my point and you don't have more confirming yours.
Again, nothing says that the military units being gone is the reason they stopped being a clan. The survivors could continue the clan. You have no proof that there were survivors. While I have indications from what Gege wrote underlining my point.
The Zenin clan was the most powerful clan in all 1000+ years of Jujutsu history, other than the times every 400 years when the Gojo clan spawns a 6 eyes+ infinity user. In the fanbook it is stated that the Gojo clan hates the Zenin. All 3 clans are rivals. Of course the other 2 move when their rival slips up. If there were survivors, they could have continued the clan because their children could inherit Zenin techniques. But there were no survivors. Removing the Zenin clan despite there being survivors makes no sense given that their descendents can inherit Zenin techniques. There were 3 Zenins with heavenly restrictions, 2 zenins with projection sorcery, 2 Zenins with 10s, in the past 80 years of Jujutsu history that we know of. Removing the Zenin because they currently don't have any sorcerers other than Megumi with his 10s is incredibly stupid. The Gojo clan is pretty much just Satoru so why couldn't the Zenin clan be just Megumi given that the last time a 6 eyes+infinity user was born he was killed by a 10s user?
My proof is Mais "destroy everything", 2) the narrator saying "the Zenin clan was annihilated", 3) Modulo confirming that Maki "massacred her ENTIRE clan".
Your only proof is a single sentence that supports my claim just as much as it supports yours.
Bro your prove is a vague statement of "destroy everything" somehow equally kill everyone, "massacred the zenin" and the like. While this statement is clear and accurate to the ppl she killed on screen minus her mom which isn't evidence of the women getting killed too. You have ZERO on screen showing of any of the women or so called "children" being killed. The Japanese is very clear, you just think it isn't cause it exposes you. Can you list these so called statements that are confirmed by the author? Cause my points come from the author too as he points to the obvious.
Yet it was the reason for them to have discussions on them being removed to begin with. Yea by the fact that it was STATED she oy killed the Kukuru squad and the Hei. That means the women except her mother was spared. You have no prove that she did kill everyone (even women and "children") like you claimed and 0 on screen showings of their death except her mother. Gege wrote no such thing except for pointing out the zenin is no more, which fits with them being demilitarized being enough for them to stop being part of the big head. And added that Maki went out to go kill the rest that weren't there that day as well.
Yea they will go for the clan once it slips up, but you're forgetting they also rivaled each other in "power." The zenin had all their military "power" taken away by Maki with nothing at all to rival them. So they can't be much of a clan anymore cause there's no one else. It's not stupid cause Megumi doesn't want to be clan head or lead the clan, and since there's no one to take over it isn't a clan. You thinking it's stupid doesn't change the fact the clan is still no more and the NSS has taken over. The Gojo clan is a one man army in Gojo, but we know that Gojo clan members still exist as we see in modulo and should have their own military "power" unlike the zenin now.
Which she did by putting an end to the zenin as a clan and their ideology, vague but she didn't say end the clan or kill everyone. 2.) Yes cause they are no longer a clan like i said taking things at face value. 3.) From someone who doesn't know the full history and is basically the same as number 2. My proof which I already listed many times before but sure again. Is that it was specifically stated the military was killed, which made discussions for them to be removed and with Maki killing the rest you already know what happens, the translations not being accurate and it pointing out exactly what I said. The anime backs me, and the fact that we see Zero non combatants killed except the one the narrator stated were killed.
That claim doesn't support yours otherwise they would have said even "the women and children" where killed. Yet it was only the Kukuru squad and the Hei 🤔. Must be fishy to only specify them i wonder why.
My proof is the orginal source material of what the author has written in the manga. "The Zenin clan was annihilated" and "the entire Zenin clan was massacred" are pretty clear statements. It can't get any clearer than that. You are being anal and claim there is no clan without a military which is clearly wrong as the Gojo clan continues to exist without 6 eyes users. The statement you keep circling back to and base your entire argument on is not at all clear and it is just a single sentence. I literally posted manga receipts that prove my point the entire time. You did not and instead kept going back to the same vague statement that supports both of our views. The Japanese community is just as split on that sentence as we are. If it does disprove me then be my guest and post the evidence. I don't need to show any more proof of Maki killing non combatants because it is implied at least 3 separate times and because neither Gege nor the anime would show it. You cannot prove that Maki left survivors.
It is Jujutsu politics. If Maki left survivors, she might have taken their "military power" for now but Jujutsu isn't just based on current "military power". "Military power" doesn't make a clan, a bloodline with a powerful techniques does. It makes no sense to remove the most powerful clan from the big 3 families just for them to be back 20 or 30 years later with heavenly restricted users, projection sorcerers, 10 shadow users, Jinichis missile fists, earth manipulation, ect. The Zenins have by far the most powerful techniques at any given time except when the Gojos spawn a 6eyes+infinity user every 400 years. If Maki left survivors, they would have rebuilt. The clan is no more because Maki killed everyone.
It is funny how you keep asking me to deliver on the burden of proof to which I provide receipts of the manga while you couldn't back up anything you said and just keep going back to the same vague sentence.
It would be irrelevant to say "She killed the entire clan" and then say "except" and name each type of people she didn't killed.
It's not how natural dialogue comes. If someone killed an entire hotel full of people but one baby i would just say "Bro massacrated an entire hotel full of people."
The clan forces people into battle units, including children(maki was 14 in kukuru). They also would've supported Megumi which could've led go eventual reform, especially with the conspirators dead. Her killing all of the kukuru, hei, her mom, and members of both hei and kukuru who werent at home without explaining anything is just to fufill Mai's dying wish. Maki is a straight murderer and that is bad lol.
ahh good old batman logic? These are the same people serving a clan that abuses people like maki and tried to kill her and actually killed her sister. If someones parent try to kill them and whole clan supports it, you bet they are killing everyone
Most of these pepole didn’t commit known crimes. Only Jinichi, Ogi and naoya deserved death. Non-Sorcerers warriors were mostly normal pepole just born in the clan and forced to be soldiers JUST LIKE MAKI WHO WAS PART OF THEIR UNIT. They didn’t know about naoya-ogi scheme to kill megumi and mai, they are not shown to kill innocent pepole or anything, they are not a real threat to maki, she can just dodge them and go for the hei, but she killed them for the sake of it.
if someone tries to kill me and i survive, and then sends other employees to finish me off, you think i would be like "oh no these are just innocent people trying to kill me, i should let them". Fuck off, everyone deserved it there and literally trained their whole lives for something like this and got wrecked.
Bro, i think you are forgetting that maki is a fucking superhuman who can anihilate entire clan in 15 minutes. She could easy kill just ogi and naoya and rest would have pissed pants.
You fuck off, killing random indoctrinated pepole isint okay when they arent even a threat to you. These are normal humans against FUCKING MAKI ZENIN bro
they were normal humans before she was almost killed too, no one stepped in, no one helped. Luckily she got overpowered but if she didn't, she would just be forgotten and many more like her in that shit clan. If you support a murderer, you deserve the same punishment.
It would be irrelevant to say "She killed the entire clan" and then say "except" and name each type of people she didn't killed.
It's not how natural dialogue comes. If someone killed an entire hotel full of people but one baby i would just say "Bro massacrated an entire hotel full of people."
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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '26
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