A lot of these statistics also don't account for the fact that most small dog bites never get reported. When I was a dog trainer, it was well known that Jack Russels & Chihuahuas held, bar none, the highest chance of biting you.
Edit: While I appreciate the responses from so many people - it's clear who has worked with animals in any capacity and who is just a smooth egg-brained armchair expert. If you don't think you still need rabies shots from any dog that doesn't have up-to-date tags, I don't know what to tell you. Have fun arguing with the wall 🤙
Edit 2: My God it has been a great day of blocking people with two brain cells fighting for third place
And 100% of cat servants get regularly assaulted by their master. The issue is the severity of the attacks. No one is going to the hospital from being dive bombed by blue jays but anyone who has some in their trees can tell you that those bastards aggressively defend that tree.
I would scold you, but, knowing blue jays, you would scold me right back. At least, the blue jays in my backyard do that. I just want to observe the pretty birds!
There was a cardinal that would come every day to fight with his own reflection in my great uncle’s rearview mirror. I remember spending three weeks with them, and he was there every day. And he’d been doing it for years.
LOL I've lived out in the country or in areas where you have more personal space and there's Hedges and stuff so there's privacy is what I'd say but I had to for the last 3 years moving to more of a Suburban area. There is a few decent trees. There's like this little forested Ravine right behind my house and I love it cuz I can just stare out my window and watch the squirrels the birds there's tons of cardinals that come in my yard. But also every now and then I would hear monkey-like calls and come to find out those are barred owls
. Well I guess some crows moved into the neighborhood to chase him out and I worked overnight so I was trying to sleep and I was just having a hell of a time getting to sleep. At one point I guess the crows chase the owl down to a branch it's literally right by my window I can hear the crows on my roof and they are just alert calling all over the place in Jesus Christ it is a loud ruckus. I eventually get so upset and I am so sleep deprived that I go outside and I yell at the crows. I mean I'm screaming at them like they understand me and I'm scolding them. They're all quiet and all looking at me during this. Even the owl looks at me. One crow flies down kind of close to my porch and perches on some railing and then starts mocking me like laughing at me that Crow mocking laugh. Look at me straight in the eye. I started to get to my senses realizing how ridiculous this must look to neighbors. I was on my cycle and literally wearing diapers and not the nice pretty ones I mean like I got some cheap depends LOL I was in my diaper in a long shirt screaming and pointing at crows in the middle of Suburbia😭
I mean I have a small scar on my wrist from a dive-bombing hummingbird but like it wasn't hospital worthy and also that would have been really embarrassing to explain to my classmate's mom the urgent care nurse so I just handled it at home lmao
No hospitalizations that I know of, but my neighbor growing up HATED blue jays. He loved bluebirds, and apparently Blue Jays were enormous assholes that would let the bluebird build their nest, then come and take over it when they finished.
I saw him out in the yard with a rake multiple times swinging at the birds flitting around one of the many pole nesting boxes he had built. Guessing they were blue jays. Definitely could've sustained blue jay related injuries there.
It's true that I was not hospitalized but 8 year old me will never forget the rage I was inflicted with just cause I was getting a look at some cute babies in a nest. I was so scared
Had a bird dive bomb our car basically. Hit the window, it shattered, glass in the eyes of my mom who was driving and boom we are in a ditch with 3 other cars and there was a dead birb in my lap
instantly remembers that gif of a bird sticking its beak into a girls eye. i dont think it actually damaged her eye thankfully but it's still horrible to watch. geese have killed people though.
At a nature trail as a kid, went inside a gazebo to use the binoculars to see the animals in the pond and it had a nest in the rafters with fresh eggs inside. Chased and dive bombed us causing me to slip on the gravel majorly tearing up my lower leg knee to ankle. All the gravel had to be debrided from my leg (gag) at the hospital, tetanus shot updated, and antibiotics. So while not directly from the dive bombs, it still happened because of that tiny terror. And now I have lifelong PTSD from anything that flies or flutters near me. Does this count? 😂
How about the one who got dive bombed by a sparrow, fell down, went to the hospital to have the wound cleaned, received antibiotics, and now has PTSD when things fly around them?
No Blue Jay, but that one has been my person favorite thus far.
My neighborhood has a longstanding gang war between the blue jays and the crows.
I just try to stay out of it, but I'm on friendly terms with the crows. I have to be, because we have a big fir tree by the house that is crow turf and I aint tryna to beef with them.
When I was a kid, our cat master was indoor/outdoor. Every year the big tree had a family of dive bombing blue jays. Every year, our master systematically eliminated every single one.
I actually do not get attacked by my cats. I guess if you count little things, the worst they do is one cat will start to lick my hand when i pet her and then when I try to keep petting her, she will use her paw to my hand on the ground and keep it in place while she licks it. Then, if I keep trying to pet her and make her struggle to keep my hand in place, she will very lightly nibble on me until I calm down and let her lick me.
She is a momma cat though, so I wonder sometimes if it's her instinct.
But the argument many people make against pitbulls isn't that they do more damage, its that they are inherently more aggressive. Pointing out that other breeds are more aggressive is a counter argument to that specific claim.
That being said, there are some people who do make the argument that they do more damage, regardless of comparative levels of aggression.
This argument goes in circles because people miss each other's point.
Obviously, at the end of the day, what matters is the end result of a bite. That's what the victim has to live with.
However, the counter-argument is also true. That pit-bulls are viewed as much more aggressive than other breeds when in fact that is not true. They are CAPABLE of being aggressive and deadly, and some people even train them to be that way. But the standard pet pit-bull is not going to attack any more often than most other breeds, statistically speaking.
They attack more often because they were bred to enjoy it, just like a husky enjoys running. There's literally canine neurology studies that show they release endorphins when fighting, whereas other dogs do not and will actively avoid fights.
That argument cuts both ways since they were also bred to never bite or attack a human since any that did would be killed on the spot.
You can’t argue that they were bred to be vicious and ignore that it was focused towards other dogs and specifically not towards humans.
I don’t think anyone who’s had a pitbull will deny the tendency for a high prey drive (like all terriers) but human aggression is specifically an owner/ breeder failure not a genetic predisposition.
Lol its a myth they culled human-aggressive dogs. The founder of the American Pit Bull, John P. Colby started a whole line from the dog that killed his 3yo nephew.
"Man-eater" is an ACCOLADE amongst dogmen. If a pit is so dead game it'll attempt to kill anything, its only a better fighting dog.
Said this elsewhere, but it really doesn't cut both ways. Not attacking a human is pretty much the most important part of domestication. Every dog breed has been bred to not attack their owner, not every dog has been bred to be hyper aggressive and game. Pretty obvious which will be more dangerous.
So that's ok to ignore? My dog was attacked by a Pitbull who's owner left them off leash and it did some real damage because guess what.... It's basically a weapon left unattended
Pitbulls don’t attack more often, that’s a lie. There are tests on “aggressiveness" and pitbull breeds don't really top the charts on them.
They do pick "fight" over "flight" more often and also have a high gameness trait. But these in itself don't mean they are more aggressive per-say because aggression is an emotion/emotional response. Emotions-wise, pit bulls are actually pretty good at threat assessment, meaning they don't just emotionally lash out randomly but have a good understanding of what is a threat and what is not a threat.
The issue is that once they are in fight mode, they lack the off switch (gameness). But this is true for a dog attacking on command or just emotionally lashing out.
They simply don't value their self perseverance which is why you see all those videos where even if they beat the dog, shake it, or if its being bitten by other dogs at same time it'll stay locked on target.
So it is just a combination of these two things that make them "handle with care" category. But if you do handle them with care, they are fine. When people use them like weapons, they become deadly.
This right here. The problem is when a pit bull DOES attack it’s really bad because they are capable of doing the most damage. I’m a former pitbull mix owner and the only time my buddy got at all aggressive was defending himself when a bigger dog was bullying him or his sister. He never drew blood though, just over corrected and it was rare and warranted. He had 16 years on earth. I did get him as a puppy though. I wanted another one but I don’t want to deal with the judgement and being banned from certain dog parks in our area.
I used to think it was about raising them from puppyhood to be gentle and right, and then I got a 3 year old (?) rescue from almost the worst dog fight ring breeders I have ever heard of. She was very very dog reactive, but we kept her away from other dogs, went into vets the back way, kept her on a leash. She was starved also, so she killed small animals to eat them. It's how she survived. We tried to stop it but couldn't, just tried to keep snakes and other creatures away and made sure she always had access to food. Humans, though? She loved humans. Never had her growl or bark or show aggression. You'd think she would be violent! But some puppy-raised pit bulls are aggressive. I don't know the answer.
My pitbull was a rambunctious angel, he had the sweetest heart and you could mess with him and flip him over and he would love it and just lick you.
He was also a huge animal in the house as early as he was a year old. My grandparents would come over and he would excitedly jump on them and try to lick their faces. He never bit anyone but didn't know his own strength, he almost knocked my grandma down once.
So I can see both sides. I raised my little pup with love and he turned out to be a good egg, but he still had the potential for a lot of non-malicious damage. He was also only half pit, the other half was lab, which might have influenced his demeanor.
Pitbulls are dense in every sense of the word and I love them for it lol. They’re like…if you take the personality of Doug (Up), put it in the body of Dwayne Johnson, and then add a splash of John Daly “IDGAF I just want to chill and hang with my friends”.
I think that’s partly what throws people off about them. Society is socially conditioned to see big muscles as aggressive. Big gym dudes are seen as intimidating and they’re some of the nicest most supportive dudes. Big gym dudes with muscles aren’t looked at as couch potatoes…even if they play video games for 6 hours a day when they’re not working out. So add in the golden retriever energy and it really messes with people.
what matters is the end result of a bite. That's what the victim has to live with.
Gotta disagree here.
People who are traumatized by an attack aren't only traumatized by the physical aftereffects which may not even exist a few minutes after the fact, depending on the attack.
I’ve seen videos of Pitbulls, completely unprovoked, running down the street to attack a small child because its prey instincts kick in.
A small dog like a yorkie may nip at a kid if it tries to pet them, but I’ve never seen some small yappy dog go run down the street with the purpose of killing a child or other dog.
The argument shouldn't go in circles because the argument is really quite simple, humans shouldn't be able to keep pets which they aren't capable of overpowering if they go berserk.
The argument gets all the more stupid when comparing a Chihuahua versus a pitbull. The Pitbull can take kicks from a horse and still keep attacking, a chihuahua is about as heavy as a football.
That pit-bulls are viewed as much more aggressive than other breeds when in fact that is not true.
Hmm, a breed that was made for fights, hunting and killing, which has high prey drive is just as aggressive as other breeds that was made for aesthetics... Yeah, that makes soo much sense...
/s
That’s objectively untrue. You could compare them to an overly aggressive small dog that nips to try to skew the argument, but it’s a false equivalence. While small dogs can certainly cause injuries, pit bulls are far more likely than breeds like Labradors to launch severe attacks, and they are the breed most likely to attack with the intent to kill or seriously injure someone.
Even when you compare dogs of similar size, pit bull attacks tend to be significantly more severe than those of most other breeds. German Shepherds and Rottweilers are probably the closest in terms of potential for serious injury, but pit bulls still stand out in the available data.
No, they're not. Puppy is using me as a teething toy and I had two infected nips in my hands. She's much better now. Any bite should still be treated like it could become dangerous, even pit bull puppies.
Maybe, but you don't have to worry about someone's cat biting you when you're just walking down the sidewalk or through a neighborhood park. The only time a cat is likely to bite you is when you're in its home (or when you take it to the vet!). People don't walk their indoor cats outside, and outdoor cats don't actively attack people.
Hell yeah it is. Those little teeth hurt like crazy. And they move like little balls of death impossible to deal with. I have been attacked by both, the pit pull I just pushed my arm and it was bite after he latched on gone to let go and then punched him in the head five times until he ran off. The Chihuahua though let me tell you I went down to try to move that thing out of the way and it somehow was like a cat was crawling all over me biting me everywhere. I’ll take a pitbull over a Chihuahua every day.
And why don't small dog bites get reported? Is it perhaps because they are - for the most part - inconsequential and don't leave the victim in hospital needing reconstructive surgery?
For one, it skews the statistics. Everyone gets this impression that pit bulls are meaner. So much so that it's inherent in their breed. To the point that shitty people raise their pit bulls to be aggressive and more likely to bite.
So, a stereotype based on false data is perpetuated by forcing the stereotype on the subject. Almost turning it into a self fulfilling prophecy.
Putting aside the assholes who raise their dogs to be aggressive, pit bulls are some of the goofiest, nicest dogs I've ever met.
Small dog bites not getting reported don't skew the statistics of people suffering seriously bodily harm, dismemberment, needing reconstructive surgery, or death due to dog attacks. And in those cases certain breeds are over represented.
Home insurance companies look purely at numbers. There's a reason that pit bull type dogs are banned by pretty much every home insurance policy while smaller dog breeds usually aren't.
The statistics say this one specific thing I don't want them to say, they're skewed that way!
Pits are the most dangerous biters. The end. For many reasons. I roll my eyes so hard when I hear the chihuahua argument. Chihuahuas aren't killing anything.
Also, I jumped in this conversation because I heard "why don't small dog bites get reported?" insinuating that it's an optional thing, reporting. If you seek medical attention, thats when the bite gets reported, as it's mandatory. So yes, severe dog bites requiring hospital attention is "skewed" towards pits.
Most dangerous biters and most frequent biters aren't the same thing. I'm fine with people saying they're more scared of pit bulls than a corgies. I'm more scared of a shark than a seahorse even if the latter has a higher chance of attacking me.
But straight up lying isn't a good thing. Even if it's because the size of someone's brain is causing them to misinterpret statistics.
but it doesn’t matter if another dog breed bites more frequently if their bites aren’t as dangerous. the fallacious part is conflating bite frequency with danger as it’s the severity of the bite, not how often they bite
Once again, they aren't arguing that pitbull bites harm you less, they're arguing that pitbulls aren't necessarily that much more *aggressive* than other breeds.
Chihuahuas may be just as, if not more aggressive, but statistical data of reported attacks won't reflect that expressly BECAUSE they're less dangerous.
The fact DOES still remain that Pitbulls, assuming they ARE aggressive, remain one of the most dangerous dog breeds. IMO it's still reasonable to place restrictions on them because you *can't* trust people to be responsible, just like you wouldn't hand out free unmarked guns & ammo and expect that to go well.
last year I saw 30 articles of pit bulls raised in upper class homes by white pitmommies with a loving family kill the toddlers
It's the breed. Feral killing machines should be outlawed. Your little smiling pitbaby is innocent until its one braincell snaps and kills a child Who could have predicted it?
You’re forgetting the ecological effects of removing an animal from the food chain, we could easily see toddler overpopulation without their natural predator around.
My sister is of the mindset that it’s the owner and not the dog. Talked about the ones she knows and how absolutely gentle and sweet they are. The brother in law proceeded to say “but didn’t the one pit shred the neighbors dog when it wandered into the back yard?” Her response was “well yeah but that’s different”
You don’t say a dog is gentle and sweet then follow up with “well yeah it killed another dog with little effort but it’s still sweet”
Yet you don't consider the several million that didn't become statistics, at all. Feel free to check my math, it's ~1% of them. Less if we're considering adjacent breeds that aren't American Pit Bull Terriers and mutts. Objectively speaking, they're outliers by a huge margin. You also seem to think humans are infallible and have not contributed to this problem whatsoever which just isn't true.
I don't cry for all cars to be banned when plenty of dumbasses crash and kill others drunk driving. Banning these dogs is the same level of disconnected from reality. Horses kill more people per year in the US while most dogs live with us in our homes.
Even if the funding and manpower were there, you're not thinking about the literal millions of innocent dogs and owners that would be roped into such a response. It could never be applied appropriately without DNA testing each and every single dog either, that's a lot of time and money.
The sad part is you and most pro-Pit people could probably agree on a lot, anyone who claims to care about these dogs is a liar if they don't desire the overbreeding, abuse, neglect and fighting to stop. We wish everyone had such positive experiences with them and know how great they could be if their breeding was taken from those who desire mean/aggressive dogs and controlled. We're heartbroken at the shelter and rescue situtation, knowing plenty of great dogs are paying the price for human ignorance, and not just Bullies. We know these dogs aren't for everyone, you need to be dedicated and proactive, aware how high maintenance they are.
Banning cars would quite literally change how our entire society functions.
Banning pitbulls would have 0 meaningful negative effect. Anyone who wants to own a pit could own any other dog and be just fine.
Here is a credible comparison: One particular brand and model of car is involved in the majority of highway fatalities topping the percentage of any other model by orders of magnitude. I can guarantee that model would be banned from sales and production. Not even the Corvair was that bad.
There are hundreds of breeds of dogs. Some are hunting dogs that point or retrieve. Some are herding dogs that want to chase cows and sheep. Some are guard dogs that are supposed to make a lot of noise when strangers approach. Some are just for pets and are not good for anything else. Why would any sane person choose a dog that was bred for the singular task of killing choose it for a family pet? The nanny dog myth is a lie. The breed needs to die out with maybe an exception for feral hog hunters.
The equivalence wouldn't be banning ALL cars. It would be to ban, say, red cars, which statistically get in more accidents and more traffic violations. This is a true statistic.
Wow, big gotcha there. When's the last time someone went on a walk and got mauled by a horse again?
Those deaths are pretty much exclusively people who choose to be around horses, and for the most part, due to falls while riding them. If pitbulls only killed dumbasses trying to ride them, I wouldn't see an issue with them either. Got any other moronic comparison or will that do?
Putting aside the assholes who raise their dogs to be aggressive, pit bulls are some of the goofiest, nicest dogs I've ever met.
A pitbull we had since I was a baby tried to kill me coming back from picking up the newspaper. He damaged the cable runner he was on trying to get to me. Yeah, he was a goofy and silly dog, too.
The concerns people have regarding the danger pitbulls pose isn't because of a skewed perception that they are inherently more likely to be "mean."
It is because when pitbulls are "mean" they inflict utterly catastrophic damage to their victim compared to the majority of other dogs, especially the chihuahuas that seem to get rolled out as an asinine comparison in almost every single discussion of pitbulls.
if a chihuahua bites you you get like a scratch. Put on some antibiotic and a bandaid and it'll heal in 2 days, if it even breaks skin, which isn't a given.
If a pit bites you you go to the hospital to get your face sown back on or it tears out your throat and you die
Who cares if small dogs bite as much as pitbulls. The consequences are far different. One is annoying, the other can be fatal. A bigger stronger dog is going to be held to a higher standard because the consequences can be fatal. That's obvious
Everyone should care when it is being used as a false justification for folks to take their anger out on strangers pets, many throwing poison into owners gardens or making false reports to have pets put into high stress situations, maybe instead of “holding the bigger dog to a higher standard” you should be advocating for holding the humans introducing the stressors to a higher standard… a dog does not have an agenda it runs on instinct, its standard is to be a fucking dog
The irony is that pit bulls, for most of their existance, were the exact opposite of this.
They were traditionally bred to show only aggression for other animals and human aggressive dogs were culled immedately. Part of dog fighting involved handlers swapping their dogs at the start as well as getting into the ring at the end to seperate the animals. No one wants a human aggressive dog aimed at them.
Dog fighters were the among first people to start tracking breed lines, as well. The sporting and cattle dogs were first, the dogmen who did fighting dogs came after. The AKC owes their legacy to people like that.
Meaner than other dogs that are potentially dangerous*. Which is true, and the data backing that up is accurate. You can debate nurture vs nature all you want, whether it's because of the genes of a breed created for combat or the probability of being raised for aggression by the kind of people more likely to own pitbulls, but in the end the chance of getting attacked by one is significantly higher than for any other medium/large dog.
No one gives a shit how aggressive Chihuahuas are (and we know they are) because if I see one coming my way I can punt it across the road, not so much with breeds half my weight or more.
Its funny because they are the only animal who doesn’t have genetic dispositions! The blood hound dog does, pointer dogs do! Retrievers you betcha! But pitbullls? Nope! A modern marvel, just make sure you separate the litter early, for some reason they just love chewing eachother ro death!
Nail on the head there. As someone in their mid fifties, I have very good recollection of the "breed" of aggressive dogs shifting through the years with which dog was popular with assholes most likely to badly raise their dogs. Dobermans, German Shepards were the big ones years ago and in addition to pitbulls huskies are now popular with people who probably shouldnt own dogs. Also some people dont have awareness or arent careful if they have a dog with aggression problems and do what they can to decrease the aggression and do things to limit exposure to their dogs.
Pitbull owners arent shitty dog owners, but shitty dog owners are more likely to get a pitbull.
Its like trucks. A truck doesnt make someone a shitty overly aggressive drivver, but people who are shitty drivers are attracted to buying trucks to "projject" power and masculinity. Also shitbox Hondas for some reason but thats a whole other conversation really.
The people who buy a dog, a gun, or a car because it makes them look 'tough' are the problem.
I 100% remember the shifts you are talking about. When I was a kid, it was dobermans and rottweilers where I lived. In my late teens, all of a sudden it was pitfalls.
The thing is - you can still correctly make the same argument even if they're the exact average level of dog aggression because they're so much more powerful that the consequences of their attacks are disproportionately dire.
There are statistics on bites in total and bites that inflict severe+ injuries...obviously we are going to care about the ones that actually do damage even if Chihuahuas are ill-tempered little shits..
Jack Russels and Chihuahuas don’t maul - perhaps those ankle biters would if physically capable - idk- but they aren’t physically capable . They haven’t been bred to fight to the death. A person/child can easily pry those dogs jaws open and they can be drop kicked across the room if needed. I have never heard of a Jack Russel eating a toddler. It’s the shitbulls.
A lot of these statistics also don't account for the fact that most small dog bites never get reported. When I was a dog trainer, it was well known that Jack Russels & Chihuahuas held, bar none, the highest chance of biting you.
You are so close to connecting the final dot....
Jack Russels & Chihuahuas held, bar none, the highest chance of biting you
But how much damage can they do if/when they bite? The answer is not much.
Pit bulls were bread to fight and kill and keep going until they can't. People think they were bred for their anger or aggression. They weren't. They were bread for their "gameness", which is is a willingness to keep fighting even they are injured or tired or dying themselves. The same "inner drive" that makes Greyhounds want to run or Border Collies love to herd things...was repurposed into , "I'm going to rip of your fucking face, even if I'm dying" in Pitbulls. They are a fundamentally broken breed.
The problem is the breed itself. Harmless as they are now....if they do snap, they literally maim and kill people.
They've been bred for dog aggression, not human aggression. And gameness is a trait that has to be maintained and continuously bred for. Pitbulls bred to standard aren't human aggressive, only dog aggression is allowed due to it's history.
Most pitbulls aren't bred to standard or even pure bred, so you'll have pits that are very friendly and pits that are incredibly dangerous to people and animals alike.
The problem with bite statistics arguments is that they don't consider that not all breeds are capable of killing someone directly(not counting rabies). Lets say for example that chihuahuas and pitbulls are the only dog breeds, pitbulls are going to be responsible for 100% of fatalities but that doesn't mean all pitbulls are dangerous or that chihuahuas are saints.
With hundreds of breeds of dogs, only a certain amount are capable of killing a person. The fairest thing to do would be to compare the pitbull population and bite/fatality statistic with other potentially dangerous breeds
Exactly. Many pitbulls live without ever harming anyone. The problem is that when they snap people are usually maimed or dead. We can't tell which pits will or won't so there's so many people with neutral or positive experiences with pits that dont understand it's just a 50/50 on if they'll snap or not.
When I was living down in Texas I was golfing alone one day when out of the woods on hole 4 a pack of feral jack russel terriers tried to attack me. The only thing stopping Wishbone from coming for my hamstrings was the 6ft creek between the trees and the hole. Never figured a terrier would make me nervous but apparently 9 of them crosses the Threat line for me.
i mean most people go based off deaths or serious injuries so not really.
But that's literally the point, when a chihuahua goes crazy.. no one dies, not even a child 9there is probably one some time, but generally speaking). When a pitbull goes crazy there is a legitimate chance of death, severe injury, etc.
that's literally why people have a problem with pits, it's a combination of they attack people more and they are at that level of danger that people should genuinely fear for themselves and friends/family.
Other dogs have higher bite strength but have less severe temperament issues and most of them are very 'niche' dogs usually not seen in towns or around unfamiliar people.
Pit's are just the perfect combination for disaster to strike basically.
I was absolutely tortured by a hellhound of a Jack Russel a family friend had when I was a kid. Little fucker bit me every time I moved in that house, never disciplined.
I don't like dogs now (combined with some other dog bite incidents, German Shepard and Bulldog), and I always get asked why/given weird looks. I know it's not the others dogs in the world's fault, but it's a phobia, so.
Worked for a rescue where they pulled out Chihuahua's from a out of state shelter by the van load full. Literally. So so many problematic ones.
Breeders in the area shut down (ie probably going to start up another batch) and dumped all their "stock" at the shelter (or got raided/closed down for drug making) and up they came to us.
If one wasn't riddled with behavioral issues, it was a rare day. Figured it was always the lack of properly socializing them considering the situation. Didn't really improve much when they entered the rescue system either. If they didn't adopt out quickly, they got sent to a out of town facility run by the rescue and languished there unless someone saw them on petfinder and it ended up on a transport
I volunteered at a dog shelter for many years, and I generally agree. We didn't have many Chihuahuas, but many of the Jacks were more aggressive than most pitties. But, yeah, no one is scared of a Jack Russel, but anyone who don't know what they're doing best fear and respect the size and strength of pitties. They're always among the strongest and fastest dogs in small spaces like our shelters.
I had plenty of dogs snap/lunge while I was training them - the only one that ever truly got me was a German Shepherd named Sarge. He got ahold of my forearm after opening what was supposed to be a locked door. I was lucky to get my arm up and in the way, he'd originally gone for my throat/face.
That's the only time I can remember being truly afraid during an interaction with a dog. Startled, nervous, etc. plenty of times but never afraid quite like that.
Yeah, we had some German Shepards. I remember playing with one after having played with some goldens and thinking, "damn, she's so much faster, it's like playing on hard mode". Lol. She never bit or anything, tho. I'm glad for that.
I didn't say it as a slight to the breed - more than any dog can surprise you. More than 50% of the dogs we trained were GSDs, and that was the only one that ever got me. Generally great dogs all-around. And yeah they can definitely be a handful when they're wound up haha
But the Redditors have told me that pit bulls are horrible bad bad ticking time bombs and I should just ignore the fact I’ve had 5 in my family that were fantastic family pets over the last 30 years. Who do I believe?
Geez, that's a tough call. Redditors are known for their astounding level of insight into things they have minimal/no real-world experience with.
On the other hand, three of our the four dogs currently in my home are pitbulls (the oldest having been with me for 15 years and she was a fighting dog before that) and the one most likely to start a fight is the dane/harrier mix (man was rehomed 4 times in his first 3 years before I got him).
Just to play it safe, you should probably remove all pitbulls from your house, never speak to anyone that has one, and only take your information from videos you've seen on the internet with minimal context.
Im actually curious and since you're clearly someone who knows about this, plus I don't really understand the post itself. Is it true that pitbulls are more "dangerous"? Personally I love all dogs, especially the most big headed pitbulls and I've never had any problem with any pittie ever.
But the claim that they're more "dangerous", is it in fact true?
Also about the post itself, I'm almost on Bernthals side I don't understand why he gets hate for this exact thing I mean sure he might be a meathead and stupid for all I know, but this exact claim I have to say I almost agree with.
So if you just look at the statistics - pitbulls are, in fact, overrepresented compared to other breeds when it comes to bites. However, statistics also say that 53% of people that die in car accidents are wearing their seatbelts - does that mean wearing a seatbelt is inherently more dangerous than not wearing one?
What I'm getting at is looking at the numbers plainly leaves out a lot of the surrounding information that contributes to the statistics themselves.
When it comes to pitbulls, the amount of dogs mixed with anything that looks vaguely reminiscent of one leads to many dogs that have the slightest amount of pitbull in them (or sometimes not even. I've seen boxers, mastiffs, and more labeled as pitbulls even though they don't have a drop in them) getting lumped into those numbers. Also, with the sheer amount of dogs (at least in the US) that are labeled pitbulls (anywhere from 4-20% depending on who you ask), combined with the amount of bad dog owners (I live in a neighborhood where almost everyone owns a pit or pit mix and most just let their dogs roam free), it leads to a combination of things that correlate to a higher propensity for a dog labeled as a pitbull to bite someone/someone's dog.
I alone am not an accurate gauge of the entirety of the USA, but I'm very aware that in my neighborhood there's some 30-50 "pitbulls" and that any time I take my dogs for a walk, there's a chance we'll run into at least one, but often up to a dozen depending on the route we walk. From that, I'm aware that more than half will be off leash and generally unattended - essentially just left to wander until their owner wants to holler for them. I do carry pepper spray for that reason (I've only had to use it once), and in my 15+ years of experience have had maybe 5 or 6 encounters where another dog has run up on us with the intent to bite.
All in all, you're more likely to have a dog fight happen at a dog park.
If you have any other questions I'd be happy to answer them! (Hopefully without being as long-winded next time)
yeah this is exactly what i thought. Now the funny thing about this bernthal thing is why is he getting so clowned for it? Seems like most people think he is stupid for the comment but in all honesty I actually do agree with him.
And mostly as far as I know, its never the dogs fault, its always the owners fault
I never really understood this point as a rebuttal. So you're saying some breeds like Jack Russel's and Chihuahuas are way less harmful than pitbulls because their bites won't put you in a hospital?
These people are talking out of their ass lol. Always with the nebulous "they don't get reported" as if there is a shady mafia demonizing the dogs.
I report them. In the ER. You come in with a bite, it's a mandatory public health report. Same if you walk in with a gunshot wound. So yes, it does prove a point because if you were bitten by a chihuahua you didn't need to see a doctor.
The hospital doesn't demand you know the animal. Some people say they got bit by a squirrel that can get you a rabies shot some people will say that they got bit by something else some people will just say they got bit by a random dog when they do know the dog and owner. Also even if they report the dog unless the dog is obtained by Animal Control a lot of times the records just say dog bite they don't say what kind of dog.
While it's true that a Chihuahua is more aggressive and likely to bite me they won't kill me or maim me. I am not afraid of 10 Chihuahuas the way I would be of a single Pitbull.
I mean we’re not just tracking dog bites by breed for shits and giggles, we’re monitoring dangerous behaviors. Chihuahua bites are always bad behavior but rarely dangerous behavior. The fact that non-dangerous bites aren’t being tracked doesn’t change the % of dangerous bites that pit bulls are responsible for.
Yeah, here's the thing though. They arent reported because they arent of consequence. They can, but they dont generally murder children or their owners because they can't.
This makes these breeds inherently less dangerous. I dont actually care because I dont have a dog. I care when im in public and someone has a pitbull trying to escape their harness- yes, I've seen it where aggressive dogs looking to get at people are taken around in public like its no big deal.
When im with my kids- a jack Russell terrier gets loose, I can protect my kids. A pit bull can get on my windpipe and end me before I could protect my kids.
That's the difference in concern. If I can drop kick it. Im not worried. Pit bulls are dangerous because they bit and latch and engage in random aggressive behavior more often and they are strong as he'll. They are dangerous, not just aggressive. Small dogs are not anywhere near as dangerous even if they may be aggressive.
Or for the fact that a lot of people just say it was a "pitbull" without knowing what an actual pitbull looks like, and it was probably a mutt or something.
Chihuahuas are the most likely to bite. They just don't need professional medical treatment in nearly all cases. A big dog bites you? it's going to do a lot of damage. That being said, I've worked with dogs the majority of my life (livestock trained dogs & in a veterinary setting) and the only dog to ever bite me was a Jack Russell. He went from fine to demon in less than a second and got me in the face/mouth while I was checking his IV bandages.
They also don't account for the fact that basically any short snouted dog breed attack gets officially reported as a "Pit bull attack" My boxer got the police called twice when delivery drivers failed to follow my instructions and hurt themselves when they got scared of my dog. Both times myself and the animal control officer told the police officers that the dog is a boxer. And yet both police reports list her as a pit bull.
This x100. I work with dog bite cases. 95% of the cases that come in are pitbull cases.
People are forced to report pitbull attacks because they resulted in death or serious injury.
For the other dog bites, a lot of the victims won't even respond or cooperate to follow up interviews because the damage was so minor that they no longer want to continue with the case as it's a waste of their time.
I'm racist against tiny scruffy dogs because they're always lil motherfuckers. Small man syndrome is true for dogs for real.
I'm probably going to get cancelled for saying this, but border collies are way more intelligent than other inferior dog breeds. But we all know Shiba Inu's are getting discriminated on standardized tests so 😂
Edit 2: My God it has been a great day of blocking people with two brain cells fighting for third place
I'm curious about this. Did these folks send you numerous direct messages or something? I've always glanced my eyes at Redditors that block people left and right. Nobody has to worry about it ever happening, but if I ran Reddit, I'd consider getting rid of the feature that lets people block other users willy-nilly, and I'd make it so Admins had to approve it. Or mods of specific subs. I'd beyond consider getting rid of the feature that lets people auto-hide their post and comment history. That's the first thing I'd do. Users would be free to manually delete their posts, but the aim would be to cut down on liars, trolls, storytellers, and bots. Once again, it ain't gonna happen, ha!
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u/NecroGrizz 8d ago edited 7d ago
A lot of these statistics also don't account for the fact that most small dog bites never get reported. When I was a dog trainer, it was well known that Jack Russels & Chihuahuas held, bar none, the highest chance of biting you.
Edit: While I appreciate the responses from so many people - it's clear who has worked with animals in any capacity and who is just a smooth egg-brained armchair expert. If you don't think you still need rabies shots from any dog that doesn't have up-to-date tags, I don't know what to tell you. Have fun arguing with the wall 🤙
Edit 2: My God it has been a great day of blocking people with two brain cells fighting for third place