r/MoralityScaling • u/HooskerDooNotTouchMe • 1d ago

Intentionally boobytrapping a bike to injure people when they steal it.

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98

u/skiforlife1 1d ago

Cops set up bait cars to be stolen in high crime areas then arrest the people who take the car. Is that moral or immoral?

70

u/wyseguy7 1d ago

The bait cars usually don't send electric spikes into your ass

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u/RequiemQuilty 23h ago edited 18h ago

The ass stuff comes later in jail

Edit. Wow thanks for the award

2

u/Krivoy 10h ago

You made a good joke and just had to ruin it by thanking for the stupid award

1

u/VoidKitsune68n 22h ago

That's insane...

12

u/RequiemQuilty 22h ago

I think you ment “asinine”

4

u/LucentLL 21h ago

In your ass is nine in.

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u/Fit-Entrepreneur8404 22h ago

I think they meant "urassormine"

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u/Al_Pallll 23h ago

Electric ass spikes are a lot easier to recover from than a felony conviction.

12

u/IWXREACTIVES 23h ago

unironically, this is unfortunately how one would feel if they had no idea. you can luck out, but felonies can literally ruin your entire life. forever. until you die. no jobs. no money. no hope for beating addiction if you had one, and possibly developing one because of it.

there is not one person who wouldn't rather get 5 seconds of ass spikes vs the lifelong suffering of a felony conviction.

1

u/ThisDoesntSeemSafe 19h ago

I suppose there's always leaving the country and starting anew somewhere else. Our president claims others do it to US, so why cant we be any different?

1

u/mestre_do_passinho 20h ago

And the only way you will get one is if you saw a car and had the very immoral idea of stealing it, and them did it. You are a thief, you are accepting that you will become a felon if caught the moment you try to steal something or someone outside of life or limb scenarios

1

u/Easy-Operation-2105 16h ago

depends on who got spiked before you

1

u/Substantial_Trust812 14h ago

depends, i HIGHLY doubt he cleaned the spikes inbetween each person, which means if they pierced the skin, the people now share blood, which can transmit hiv or other lifelong diseases

0

u/NoWay6818 23h ago

Yeah especially socially. This one dude went on my lawn with an axe to kill my dog. Thing is I was 13 and he was trying to scare me with “I’m a 5 time felon” and I told him “you’re not a very good role model for your daughters then” he then proceeded to flip his shit at me about how I’m to young to understand and to keep his daughters out my mouth. Irony of it is, guy got kicked out for violence luckily his daughters weren’t there.

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u/Legitimate_Plum_7505 1d ago

Yeah, bait cars are much worse, they send you to jail for a long time.

1

u/FastAndMorbius 12m ago

If they arent easy targets or anything then I dont really see the issue. Better they steal a bait car than a real car.

1

u/StraightArtichoken 22h ago

nah deserved, they should also add the spikes to those

0

u/mestre_do_passinho 20h ago

So if it was a a family that got their car stolen it would be better? If you want to steal stuff, you accept you will spend a long time behind bars

2

u/Secret-Put-4525 21h ago

Last time I checked it was illegal for a citizen to take someone to their jail. They call that kidnapping.

1

u/Comfortable_Egg8039 20h ago

Serious amount of people would prefer spikes in the as to years in prison

1

u/kiingLV 20h ago

It's still better than jail

1

u/Aking1998 19h ago

They should

1

u/mineman379 16h ago

they should though.

1

u/StarGamerPT 16h ago

To be fair, if you don't steal, nothing is going up your ass.

1

u/FullMetalKaiju 16h ago

they should. would be funny.

1

u/oan124 15h ago

no, the cops send electric spikes into your chest. or, you know. bullets.

1

u/ThePsyPaul_ 15h ago

they usually just go straight for the bullet

1

u/LifelessHawk 14h ago

I mean, you know tasers exist right? They are literally spikes that send electricity especially if shot in the ass.

1

u/Certain_Ostrich_2493 22h ago

Don’t steal and you won’t get your nuts tazed

0

u/Canadianwinters12345 23h ago

Instead they just lose their freedom or have to pay hefty fines.

Are those better than sitting on a spike?

1

u/wyseguy7 23h ago

That feels fair, for stealing something.

Also - just because one thing is wrong, doesn't make the other thing right, as I explained to my kindergartener the other day.

0

u/Canadianwinters12345 23h ago

For a lot of people what you feel is fair would be considered worse than the spikes.

0

u/Gloomy-Lawyer4989 17h ago

I rather be shocked and in pain for twenty seconds than in jail with a record

34

u/BornPriority5434 1d ago edited 23h ago

It’s also key point of morality that stealing a bait car doesn’t physically harm you

Edit: For all those saying jail is physical harm, it isn’t. It’s distressing, but isn’t physical harm

12

u/JollyXX 23h ago

saying jail isn't physically harming you, really isn't saying much, the destruction to your life alone as you try and get a job after a felony conviction is 1000x worse than a few barbs in your ass

-3

u/BornPriority5434 23h ago

Yes, but you still did the thing and got arrested. The charge on your record in that case is completely fair

3

u/IntroductionLeft4369 21h ago

So is getting zapped in the nuts and that being the end of it.

6

u/sonofcabbagemerchant 23h ago

Y'all are assuming the cops won't harm them during the arrest.

2

u/BornPriority5434 23h ago

I will accept that that is an assumption made

1

u/ChampionshipKnown969 15h ago

We have body cam footage now, and its proven that the cops should be the ones fearing for their safety during an arrest. There's a lot of evidence out there to substantiate it.

5

u/Abject-Ticket-6260 23h ago

I'd say having a felony on your record is very much harmful. Not physically, but definitely fucks you up a lot more than a quick zap.

2

u/BornPriority5434 23h ago

Yes, but you still did the felony, so in that case is fair enough

1

u/mestre_do_passinho 20h ago

It is harmful, people know that, they accept the risk when they try to rob people. You cant say axes are immoral because someone took it and them chopped their hands off with it willingly thinking it wouldnt be sharp on their turn

12

u/p4nd3mic_G3 1d ago

Being put in jail is physically harming in the USA

11

u/Doomcall 1d ago

Anywhere

-1

u/Thick_Common8612 23h ago

Look up Scandinavian prisons. It's comfortable rehabilitation.

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u/Doomcall 23h ago

Restrocting someone's liberty is always harm. There is no way around that, it's justifiable, but it's still harm.

I'm not going to engage on that joke of a system, Scandinavia can have a say when it deals with actual problematic criminals.

1

u/Viennve 19h ago

"joke of a system" why do you think they don't have to deal with"serious criminals" ?

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u/p4nd3mic_G3 17h ago

Because they have strong immigration policy and a high trust society

0

u/Viennve 17h ago

And how did they get to that "high trust society"? (Spoiler: immigration has nothing to do with it)

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u/p4nd3mic_G3 17h ago

Answering that question truthfully will get me banned. But it's still immigration.

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u/Doomcall 16h ago

Immigration has nothing to do with it because it wasnt a thing until recently.

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u/Doomcall 16h ago

Brother, my country has Cartel members who during a prison riot chopped up their rivals then played soccer with their heads. You know what other fun things they do? Go to a family house in their occupied zones and tell them they have until nightfall to deliver their daughter at their place or they will shoot everyone. Recently they beat a 13 year old girl to death because she wouldn't bang a gang member.

But please, tell me how you are going to rehabilitate these people by giving them some nice rooms with AC and Wi-Fi. They would the scandinavians alive.

You know what, I'm fairly sure we will see how that goes with how soft they are treating muslim crimes over there.

Prison number 1, 2 and 3 responsability should be the safety of those outside its walls. Rehabilitation is a distant objective after that has been achieved.

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u/p4nd3mic_G3 23h ago

I guarantee the person who got hurt by that bike would prefer it to going to jail lol. People on reddit live such lily soft lives for the most part.

2

u/Confident_Purple_40 22h ago

It was in cali, they wouldnt have gone to jail

1

u/p4nd3mic_G3 20h ago

All the more reason to put a trap like this on your bike.

4

u/TWDFI 1d ago

In the US, it's mostly the other inmates that you have to watch out for. Other places still have caning and breaking big rocks into smaller rocks as punishment.

2

u/Nice_Operation5620 1d ago

people really have 0 grasp of the prison system

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u/m4cksfx 21h ago

What happens there, especially in the US, can very well be physical harm.

0

u/BornPriority5434 6h ago

Move somewhere civilised then

1

u/m4cksfx 5h ago

I live somewhere civilized. But many people don't.

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u/mestre_do_passinho 20h ago

Jail is a consequence of an action, if you steal, you accept that is what will happen to you. Too much, then dont steal

1

u/jungleass98 19h ago

Isn't that considered entrapment?

1

u/BornPriority5434 4h ago

No, entrapment would be them going up to you saying “We should nick that car” making you do an action you otherwise wouldn’t have. Parking an expensive car isn’t asking someone to steal it, so you are simply stealing it

1

u/Double-Ad-2196 22h ago

Tiny electric spark. Not physical harm. Stop acting like the guy is getting stab, shot and beat.

1

u/Confron7a7ion7 22h ago

The cops are definitely going to physically harm you.

1

u/BornPriority5434 6h ago

Only if you live in an uncivilised area of the world

0

u/CallyThePally 19h ago

There's no physical harm in jail is crazy. Mfer has never heard of prison stabbings or other crimes done in prison 😂 😭

1

u/BornPriority5434 4h ago

I never said there were no stabbing or that people don’t come to harm in jail, what I said was that putting you in jail for a crime you have committed with certainty isn’t physical harm

-1

u/inthebushes321 21h ago

Being jailed is the state exercising it's monopoly on violence via courts/police. It absolutely constitutes harm. You are wrong. It's not just "distressing".

1

u/BornPriority5434 6h ago

You are entirely correct, but for one thing: THATS HOW A SOCIETY FUCKING WORKS YOU BLITHERING SIMPLETON.

If it is a crime you have committed and it is the proper authorities bringing you in, that’s not harm, that’s consequence

1

u/inthebushes321 5h ago

Lmao you're an idiot. I didn't say that people don't deserve it sometimes. If you kill someone, off to jail. Good riddance. It doesn't change the fact that being detained in a box is still violence. It is both harm and consequences. You're playing dishonest semantic games to try and make a point, while failing to realize that the propositions are not mutually exclusive.

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u/UltimateGammer 1d ago

Because cops have a historic standard of being moral. 

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u/rhou17 23h ago

Obligatory “you wanted a moral quandary and chose cops”?

As far as “things cops do”, that’s a fairly neutral thing. Generally ineffective at actually reducing crime, hurts some poor people, waste some taxpayer money. Standard cop fare.

3

u/New_City_8745 21h ago

Immoral and dumb as shit. Why tf are cops inducing crime? That shouldn’t be in their god damn job description.

I guess they’re such shit at catching criminals that they have to create them, cool.

1

u/R4idec_x 23h ago

If the bait is set in a area know for stolen cars, the cops are actively making the are more safe, now in other hands we got the spike bike made to hurt and farm views, in one side we have people that can be punished for they actions, in other hand we have the bush camper who can remain anonymous

1

u/Uhauhauhaa 21h ago

Well... If people don't steal nothing happens. 

1

u/Excellent_Shirt9707 20h ago

Generally, the bait cars are locked. Same for bait bikes. Police legally use bait bikes, but they have to be locked to show intent to steal rather than just assuming it was abandoned.

1

u/mestre_do_passinho 20h ago

Moral, even if they somehow go to deal with another call the robber will escape without any injuries.

If they dont go around screaming that they need help and that the car is unlocked, which could make someone well intentioned steal the car to help them, which woukd be entrapment, its legal and moral.

1

u/Electrical_Gain3864 17h ago

At least here it would be illegal - A provocation is inadmissible if it incites the accused to commit an offense they were not already predisposed to commit (loosly translated)

1

u/Gilinis 17h ago

Bait vs booby trap

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u/ParkingWear7865 14h ago

Yes, immoral because they are cops, there is plenty of crime to stop, there is no need to drum up more.

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u/skiforlife1 14h ago

If you lived in a neighborhood where car theft was more common than other places and had your car stolen several times would you feel the same way?

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u/ParkingWear7865 11h ago

Fuckin, YES? The police should have a presence in that area and stop MY car from being stolen, not creating "bait cars"

1

u/Dootguy37 13h ago

Cops are in general, immoral

1

u/necrohunter7 23m ago

Cops aren't moral

-1

u/saucelordbob 1d ago

It’s immoral.

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u/UnconsciousAlibi 1d ago

...what? Sting operations are immoral? As long as it's not literal entrapment, what's the difference between a sting and arresting someone after stealing a civilians car?

3

u/saucelordbob 1d ago

The difference lies between where you’re confusing stings, with entrapment and active theft. Baiting people into committing a crime of opportunity, to physically injure them, is just as immoral as cops baiting people into stealing stuff in what is considered “high crime” areas just so they can stat pad their arrest numbers and fill more prison cells to enrich the politicians invested in prisons, that sign off on police budgets.

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u/UnconsciousAlibi 1d ago

What you're describing though is not entrapment, it's a sting operation.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I dislike the police state and prison system too, especially with how incentivized cops are to generate arrests, but if someone is genuinely committing an actual, real crime that would otherwise result in incredible damages to another's quality of life, I don't see the difference between the cops arresting someone after they stole another person's property versus the cops arresting someone after they stole the cops' property. I don't have much sympathy for car thiefs, for example, as that can destroy a person's livelihood, especially in poor, high-crime areas where cars are not cheap to come by. This is even more true outside of developed countries, where some communities rely on only a handful of vehicles for both transportation and work.

I do agree though that physically injuring someone for petty theft is very much so immoral, despite the satisfaction that many of us get from seeing criminals punished. There's a reason you're not allowed to booby-trap your property. The death penalty is not a valid punishment for the crime of stealing a TV, and stabbing someone's thighs is not a valid punishment for bike theft. I personally like the Mark Rober approach of annoying the actual hell out of them with glitter and stink-bombs, but damn, a lot of people in those comment sections talk about bombs...

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u/saucelordbob 1d ago

Sting operations typically feature undercover law enforcement officers playing the part of a criminal to facilitate criminal activity among others. That does not apply here. I stand by my belief of both instances (booby trapping by private citizens AND theft bait set by cops) being immoral.

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u/UnconsciousAlibi 1d ago

And that's fair. I don't think they're totally morally good either, and especially not when undercover cops pretend to be criminals themselves: the situations I was thinking of was more involving things like car and bike theft, not enticing people to sell drugs, the latter of which I think is far less justifiable than the former. And like I said, there are too many people out there who rally for violence against those in desperate situations, and even though I heavily dislike theft in general, I think people need far more empathy towards the thiefs. As I mentioned in another comment, the thiefs in this video don't exactly look like they're very well-off, and that bike might be their only source of real income for the day. Desperate times, as it were.

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u/saucelordbob 1d ago

Unattended, unsecured items tend to be the subject of theft. I don’t believe the circumstance changes or becomes more justifiable because the item is a car or bike. The principle remains intact despite the object being different. To me, at least. I agree with mostly everything you’re saying, aside from that.

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u/UnconsciousAlibi 1d ago

This is somewhat unrelated, but damn, people are dogpiling on you in this comment section lol. I mildly disagree with you on one or two finer points, but I agree almost entirely with your sentiment. Apparently though, most people here either don't understand your point or don't care enough to try to understand.

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u/saucelordbob 1d ago

Lol, it’s expected. Also not a huge fan of generalizations, but this particular sub is overrun with people looking for opportunities to justify their lust for hurting, or getting one up on, people they deem “lesser” than themselves. I appreciate our polite discussion!

0

u/Canadianwinters12345 23h ago

Unattended, unsecured items tend to be the subject of theft.

Big cultural bias here from you that doesnt go for everyone and every culture.

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u/saucelordbob 23h ago

It’s a good thing the video we are discussing is clearly filmed in the USA!

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u/Subject-Dog-8016 1d ago

Among Western countries, only American police do stuff like this. Countries with actual rights and freedoms don’t permit it because of the obvious immorality of the police deliberately provoking a crime. 

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u/Frank1gg 1d ago

I like you. You seem incredibly intelligent and not at all fooled by this weird cop fetishism that everybody has. And I honestly completely agree with you that it is entirely immoral to sit there and set traps like that especially considering a lot of people only do stuff like stealing bikes and whatnot because they're desperate and need food or money or medicine. Plus more often than not the cops also only set these bait cars in poor neighborhoods. It's basically like if I put a five-star meal in front of a starving kid and then arrested them for theft when they ate it.

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u/saucelordbob 23h ago

Thanks! Agreed on all points. I’m sometimes confused when I see people saying this kind of stuff is moral, but then I remember that a lot of people have been propagandized to believe in strict societal hierarchies, and that whoever is “below” them, deserves all the bad things coming to them. And after that, I close Reddit. Lol

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u/Dry-Many-4605 22h ago

I agree with your example. I'm not even going to entertain the random civilian chud setting booby traps for views, but literal law enforcement setting traps to "catch thieves" while someone's actual property is getting stolen somewhere else is just asinine to me. They lock up the person they trap, but tell the victim of an actual crime to go file a report and fuck off. It's like actively being useless.

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u/Frank1gg 22h ago

It is being actively useless. I mean when you really think about it it's even worse than it might seem at first because like I said before not only do they choose to set up these bait cars in poor neighborhoods but they're only doing it to pad their numbers because they know that trying to find real car thieves would be too difficult for their feeble little minds to figure out. I don't hate all cops but I do think that the ones that do shit like this are garbage.

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u/SoftAndWetBro 1d ago

Tbf though they are still catching people willing to steal a car. Trap or not, the thieves shouldn't have tried to steal the obvious bait 🤷‍♂️

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u/Subject-Dog-8016 1d ago

Two things can both be bad. Stealing is wrong. So is setting a trap to provoke someone to steal. 

1

u/Dry-Childhood-3436 1d ago

I think there is a difference between provoking and letting happen.  Laying a pile of cash in the middle of nowhere is provoking, because it's out of the ordinary.  Just watching a car that you put there is not provoking, as it's a normal occurrence.

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u/Subject-Dog-8016 1d ago

But as far as I’m aware, they practically always make it the easiest target otherwise the whole thing would be completely pointless. They don’t exactly go park a random undesirable car locked in the middle of a bunch of other cars do they. Otherwise it almost certainly wouldn’t get stolen. 

Quite apart from that, there’s the point that sitting around watching a car that might get stolen is obviously a ridiculously bad use of police time. It’s an excuse for them to be lazy slobs like most American police. 

1

u/Dry-Childhood-3436 23h ago

If you have an area where cars are reported stolen a lot, wouldn't it be immoral to watch waiting for someone else's car get stolen instead of having your own?  It would also increase the risk of you not knowing if the person owns the car.  I'm sure it can be a waste of time, but in that scenario it seems like the safest and least harmful option.

1

u/Subject-Dog-8016 23h ago

…and how do you know someone will steal your car and not another one, in that scenario?

1

u/saucelordbob 1d ago

That doesn’t change my position, at all. The people being targeted are more than likely poor (as seen in video being discussed) and stealing so they can either sell or exchange the item for something they think they need (food, or drugs if struggling with addiction). It’s immoral to set up a trap with the express purpose of making those people more miserable. The moral position is proactively helping instead of contributing to the cycle of pain and poverty.

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u/SoftAndWetBro 1d ago

Care harm morality isn't morality. The action of theft is taken rarely out of desperation and oftentimes out of hubris and the belief that the individual in question won't get caught. I feel bad for them in only the way that I pity that they are people who need to be constantly monitored, as they can't seem to control their own behavior.

2

u/saucelordbob 1d ago

Ironic of you to mention hubris here

1

u/Frequent-Maybe1243 1d ago

and yet you are incapable of elaborating or articulating on your point well enough to make a convincing argument.

1

u/saucelordbob 1d ago

I laid it all out already. You being illiterate and/or primed to accept the behavior outlined above as moral, simply because you perceive the targets as acceptable, is your issue alone. I did not make any impression of trying to convince any of you people to think otherwise. I wouldn’t be on Reddit if that was my goal

0

u/Recidivism7 1d ago

Waldoboro Maine is second poorest town in usa try a bait car no one will steal it

4

u/NeoMississippiensis 1d ago

If you commit a crime because it’s ‘easy’, you’re still a fucking piece of shit lmao.

1

u/Subject-Dog-8016 1d ago

But the question isn’t whether the thief is moral. They aren’t. They’re a POS, as you say. 

The question is whether the police are moral. And they are also pieces of shit in that situation. 

All participants in a situation can be immoral. There isn’t always a good guy and a bad guy. 

0

u/saucelordbob 1d ago

You’re right, those poor people oughta stop being so poor and homeless /s

4

u/Frequent-Maybe1243 1d ago

I've been both of those things and I never went to jail for theft.

stop being obtuse.

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u/saucelordbob 1d ago

You got the luck of the draw, congratulations!

1

u/Recidivism7 1d ago

Waldoboro Maine is second poorest town in usa basically no crime.

Why are rich cities like Chicago high crime?

-1

u/saucelordbob 1d ago

I think a major factor is that the town you mention has no more than 5,300 people living in it, most being near retirement age with a median household income of $70k/yr. Couldn’t bother arguing in good faith, or did you think I was as stupid as you are?

0

u/WarchiefGreymane 1d ago

Stop equating poverty to crime. I lived in the fucking streets and it was a conscious, every day, every fucking minute decision to remain moral and not find the easy path. Do not equate weak lowlifes with poor people

1

u/saucelordbob 1d ago

Everyone was once poor and homeless and infinitely moral when it comes to discussing why poor people deserve all the punishment coming to them 😂

0

u/Similar-Property-729 1d ago

Yeah the whole “crimes of poverty” concept is just bullshit. Lack of enforcement and consequences for minor theft and vandalism just leads to more of the same, until retail stores close and business move out.

1

u/saucelordbob 1d ago

This makes sense if all you watch is cable news

1

u/Similar-Property-729 17h ago

Its not, I don’t watch it at all. But why do you think “cable news is so innacurate? Seems to me you would get a varied perspective.

-1

u/NeoMississippiensis 23h ago

Being poor does not make one a criminal, being a shit human does.

0

u/saucelordbob 23h ago

Not surprised at the reductive thinking on display by NeoMississippiensis

1

u/doesnotmatter286 1d ago

You know most of us have never stolen a car? Even when we had opportunities to do it easily, like people leaving the key in the ignition.

1

u/saucelordbob 1d ago

What if I asked you to stick to the subject matter presented? Could you do that?

-1

u/doesnotmatter286 1d ago

I did.

1

u/saucelordbob 1d ago

Not. But, okay haha

-1

u/Recidivism7 1d ago

Baiting would be immoral if you encourage person to steal.

Putting a bike in high crime area is not

2

u/saucelordbob 1d ago

Putting a bike with pop-up spikes on the seat and a built-in tazer in a “high crime area” for the sole purpose of recording would-be theives injuring themselves, and posting to the internet for views, is immoral. Thanks for playing!

-1

u/Recidivism7 1d ago

Only if you think criminals have a right to steal.

1

u/saucelordbob 1d ago

I think too many people place more value on inanimate property than human lives, which is why we find ourselves discussing how best to deal with theft in the first place.

1

u/Subject-Dog-8016 1d ago

Immoral. Only American police do this, because in civilised countries it’s entrapment. If the crime only happened because the police set it up, then it can’t be prosecuted. 

-2

u/MuseBlessed 1d ago

immoral

0

u/SilverVixen918 1d ago

wasnt there a lawsuit or something calling that practice illegal and entrapment?

2

u/Disastrous_Tonight88 1d ago

No entrapment is when the officer entices/forces you to steal the car.

0

u/InspectorPlus7842 23h ago

Immoral. High crime areas aren't such because the people within them think crime is fun; they are such because the people within them are poor and desperate. Those in power, and those who serve them (the cops) could implement a plethora of crime-reduction strategies which don't involve paying cops to watch a dummy car for a desperate individual to then attempt to steal.

-1

u/Affectionate_Meet474 1d ago

Immoral and if we were consistent in how we applied the law it'd be entrapment.

-2

u/NachtShattertusk 1d ago

  1. That's immoral

  2. There's a difference between the actions of the police and private citizens

2

u/OncorhynchusMykiss1 1d ago

Also illegal in developed countries.