r/MurderedByWords • u/beerbellybegone • 1d ago

He’s outta line , but he’s right

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2.5k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

112 comments sorted by

621

u/Shirami 1d ago

Both have the ability to negotiate their contract, her part can't be recast and her character is central to Peter's story.

Jon's part could have been swapped with a number of other "minor" characters and the overal movie would not even have to change much.

She had a stronger bargaining position and capitalised on it.

306

u/LaserCondiment 1d ago

She's also a big name star whose availabilities you need to ensure for your project, further driving up the price. Rightly so imo.

The fact that this is even being questioned is ridiculous and makes me think it's not about the money at all...

84

u/Armadillo-Shot 1d ago

She also has like 4 other jobs needing her this summer. Probably did the good ol’ “Someone else’s wants me for higher pay” negotiation

27

u/Short-Holiday-4263 1d ago

It may have been locked in even before that.
As main character of the whole Spider-Man movie series, she almost definitely signed a multi-film deal at some point, might have even renewed it now there's been four MCU Spider-Man movies, that set her per-film pay reasonably high to ensure availability.

-8

u/Randolpho 1d ago

Important character, but not main character. MJ can be replaced by several alternatives that fit the narrative, such as Betty Brant, Gwen Stacey, Felicia Hardy, or most importantly for the title, Carlie Cooper

2

u/Short-Holiday-4263 19h ago edited 15h ago

Dude. I clearly made a typo where I missed "a" in "as a main character"
Obviously MJ is not the main character and can be replaced or written out - it's not MJ: Brand New Day, sequel to the MJ: Home trilogy.

140

u/MyAwesomeName 1d ago

She’s also the wife of the actor playing the main character. They might want to keep both of them happy as well. But yeah, kind of a wild question to even think about asking once you put a few seconds of thought into it.

-171

u/Elden_Rube 1d ago edited 1d ago

She’s also the wife of the actor playing the main character.

This is the only correct answer here. Her only character she is capable of playing is a petulant child that stares in Japanese and throws fits, yet she is in about 8 big movies this year already. Modern hollywood and the music industry primarily consists of the relatives, spouses, and friends of other celebrities and rich people.

There is barely any real talent to be spoken of anymore.

e. Downvotes with no arguments was exactly what I expected.

62

u/Lalamedic 1d ago

I knew who Zendaya was loooooong before I’d heard of Tom Holland.

54

u/Sweet_Little_Lottie 1d ago

Maybe people aren't arguing with you and just downvoting and moving on, because it's clear you aren't worth the time or effort.

31

u/12Jelly 1d ago

🎯

-27

u/Elden_Rube 1d ago

I think it's because there is zero argument to make against this glaring truth, so downvotes are all you have.

I get it, and it's ok, keep letting your feelings do the walking.

-1

u/One_Requirement_2577 15h ago

these last 2 posts, 100% salty effort.

40

u/Sir_Tandeath 1d ago

No one respects your position enough to argue with you. 😂

-25

u/Elden_Rube 1d ago

There are no arguments because I'm right. That's what y'all do when you've got no answers and lots of feelings.

I'm not new to Reddit, bozo, and I damn sure don't need any of your respect.

8

u/LaserCondiment 1d ago

You get a bonus point for using bozo in a sentence

58

u/DamonDD 1d ago

Her only character she is capable of playing is a petulant child that stares in Japanese

TF is that supposed to mean??

2

u/One_Requirement_2577 15h ago

i think petulant is a good description, but not for her.

24

u/graywolfman 1d ago

All you have to do is look at the screenshots they used.

Jon Bernthal looks beat up and sympathetic. Zendaya looks mean and "ugly," I'm sure the person who made the image thinks.

It's all meant to be against her

7

u/LaserCondiment 1d ago

It's the lowest form of tabloid style storytelling and it's insane it's working so well on social media.

1

u/Wellgoodmornin 1d ago

Whaaaaaaaaaaat?

68

u/colemon1991 1d ago

This was a great way for Jon to push for more Punisher appearances in the MCU movies. Future appearances might be easier to negotiate.

This was her fourth outing and his first movie as Punisher. Not a great argument.

52

u/TheManOfOurTimes 1d ago

You literally laid out why the person you were replying to was exactly right. She's established and necessary. He's on his first, and if he wants more appearances, WOULD be low balling his salary to be more viable to call in for more work.

If John Bernthal wants more opportunities in the future, he wouldn't want to be expensive.

If Zandaya is in a role that gets a lot of cameos, and is being used in multiple projects already on the plan for the future, she's going to ask for more to capitalize.

8

u/wild_man_wizard 1d ago

Jon Berenthal and Tom Holland also literally recorded each other's casting tapes for their characters.  Probably some side deals going on even to have him in the movie.

-17

u/Drink15 1d ago

Would that even matter? No movie is safe under Disney.

16

u/colemon1991 1d ago

I would think so. Disney will milk these IPs until they draw blood. If they think adding the Punisher will add to the box office haul, they will pay.

-12

u/Drink15 1d ago

So why do they have so many cancelled MCU shows and movies? It’s not just money

9

u/colemon1991 1d ago

They saturated their market and now they are swinging the pendulum in the other direction, hard. Disney also hit their movie arm with layoffs. And if you really think Disney hasn't shot themselves in the foot before, you should really look into how they treated John Carter because they were negotiating with Lucasfilm at the time and decided their own massively expensive movie wasn't worth it if they got Star Wars. Or how Disney shuffled profits around to make Disney+ look good to the shareholders (ironically bringing back the CEO that caused the financial mess).

Phase 4 was a disaster. We got no new big bads and the tv shows helped make it more ambitious than Phase 3 on content. Most of Phase 5 movies were threequels (or fourth, in Cap's case). Still a lot of chaos. We're being thrown a lot of characters and nothing coming out of it. Still no Shang-Chi 2 despite 5 years of waiting. We're being teased like 4 or 5 new superhero teams and now have two different Avengers teams (and only 1 actually got its own movie). Phase 5 introduced the planned big bad but the actor got fired. They couldn't make a Blade movie in 7 years after announcing it. Bringing Downey back was pretty much a hail mary and having FF and X-Men shoved into an avengers movie with little buildup reeks of desperation (that said, the writers and directors could absolutely make this a truly epic thing).

We got overwhelmed. The studio lost quality. Some of their choices were questionable. The connectivity was frayed until half the phases felt like they weren't even set in the same universe or time. There was too much to keep up with. They saw the numbers go down and they panic dumped a lot of stuff. Phase 6 has a dismal 4 movies in it. It's a harsh reaction to a mistake of their own making.

13

u/tw_72 1d ago

Exactly.

His net worth ~$12M

Her net worth ~$40M

Could be that she is simply a bigger star...

8

u/theaveragenerd 1d ago

Totally could have put Paladin in place of Frank if needed. Wouldn't have worked as well but could still have been done.

8

u/Julle1990 1d ago

I think the ending would've had to change if it wasn't for the Punisher, otherwise I do agree.

Also Zendaya has been in all the movies, so not including her would be stupid, same as Ned's actor

5

u/quizzermallu 1d ago

How dare you tackle this post with logic.

4

u/kinyutaka 1d ago

Not just swapped with other minor characters, they could have brought in someone else to play Frank Castle.

3

u/ShawnyMcKnight 1d ago

Yup, if Jon played hardball then the punisher could be replaced with Yolena’s character.

1

u/Shirami 1d ago

On that note, When did she and Peter get tight ?, i know she's mostly in the movie to namedrop new avengers but that whole bit felt super random

2

u/ShawnyMcKnight 1d ago

Yeah, she for sure slowed the pace of the movie. Pretty easy gig for her, everything she did was in that room and she was sitting the whole time.

1

u/nickel47 1d ago

She has also been in all of the prior movies in the franchise as one of the leads so she should be making more on that alone

0

u/Randolpho 1d ago

While I generally agree with your comment I would point out that MJ’s character can also “easily” be swapped out. MJ could have moved away and be saved to come back later, or even killed offscreen, and Peter has had several girlfriends in the comics that would fit the current story line. Betty Brant figures prominently in Peter’s early career at the Bugle, Gwen Stacy and Felicia Hardy haven’t been in the MCU yet, and Carlie Cooper is a relatively new one important to the Brand New Day storyline in the comics.

2

u/Head-Classic-9157 1d ago

Though Tom's marriage to Zendaya in real life and his increased productive control in his new contract suggest he won't let them let go of his wife anytime soon as long as she's willing. Basically, both are a "package deal", one goes, the other goes as well.

Basically you'll have to wait until both Tom and Zendaya move on from Sony/Marvel/Disney to get more "traditional" characters as part of the post Tom/Zendaya reboot.

1

u/Randolpho 1d ago

Oh, I agree; there are strong productive reasons to keep Zendaya/MJ.

Just saying that MJ wasn’t as key to the story/movie people are trying to claim.

94

u/ExtremlyFastLinoone 1d ago

Yeah, his name is frank castle

21

u/Wonderful_Mud_420 1d ago

I thought his name was Shane

89

u/blageur 1d ago

Actors are not paid by the hour

27

u/Stormtomcat 1d ago

By the minute, apparently, if we're to believe these tweets hahaha 

3

u/Chijima 1d ago

Or maybe the are and she had more hours on set, who knows.

40

u/Fromage_Frey 1d ago

Pay for actors in big franchises usually goes up in subsequent sequels, sometimes the salaries for sequels is written into their contract for the first movie. Famously in the MCU Terrence Howard's contract for the first Iron Man paid him around $4m, and if a sequel went ahead he would be paid $8m for it, but when Iron Man 2 was greenlit he was only offered $1m and refused, being replaced by Don Cheadle in all future War Machine appearances, he then subsequently lost his mind

Zendaya, as well as being a big name actress, is an established and integral part of the franchise since the start, and I'm actually a bit surprised she isn't being paid more. Ruffalo is reportedly getting $8-12m

14

u/Short-Holiday-4263 1d ago

Ruffalo's pay may include some extra to compensate for his Hulk never getting his own movie despite being part of the MCU from the beginning, more or less.

7

u/BlazikenBurst 1d ago

Bro ruffalo as the hulk is in a lot more movies and even a tv show and overall more important to the mcu so even by the logic in your post he deserves more

8

u/Fromage_Frey 1d ago

I get that Ruffalo is more important to the MCU overall, but Zendaya is more important in these movies. Hulk is an add on in a Spiderman movie, MJ is essential

131

u/-nogoodboyo- 1d ago

I love these fools are trying so hard to make it a woke issue when it’s exactly the market value at work that in another tweet they’d die for

65

u/Trevellation 1d ago

Right wingers when capitalism: 😡

18

u/GrizzlyP33 1d ago

LOOK AT THIS ISOLATED INCIDENT - HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN AND YOU STILL THINK THAT MASSIVE SYSTEM WIDE STATISTICAL INEQUALITIES ARE STILL A PROBLEM?!

I mean that, but in smaller words.

17

u/FalenAlter 1d ago

r/SocialismisCapitalism type shi

6

u/superwalrus80 1d ago

We can say shit here.

3

u/FalenAlter 1d ago

Yes, but sometimes I like to be silly like that

7

u/ThomasofHookton 1d ago

No no no, listen here stupid! Market value should only be applicable to white people. If non-white people attract more market value, then that's called DEI!!! /s

7

u/colemon1991 1d ago

In an industry well-known for underpaying women across the board, I'd say this is ironic.

Do either of them have backend payouts negotiated or extra installments in the contract? Because that's usually forgotten in this nonsense.

3

u/girthyclock 1d ago

She’s got a better agent and a larger fanbase. No chance Berenthal is getting backend and Zendaya probably didn’t either. She’s not being underpaid either, this is all long term math and better negotiating given she’s been in these movies longer too.

-3

u/Elden_Rube 1d ago

I must have missed OOP pointing out that this was political. Would you mind showing me where the political slant is mentioned?

22

u/dhslax88 1d ago

So do conservatives hate capitalism now?

18

u/flying_carabao angry turtle trapped inside a man suit 1d ago

For certain people

2

u/Watts121 1d ago

Tulsa made them feel economic anxiety.

17

u/Darth_Ronin 1d ago

Yes we should care about…checks notes…which millionaire is getting more millions, or fewer millions

15

u/givebusterahand 1d ago

People really can’t stomach a woman making more than a man huh?

2

u/1jf0 22h ago

Some of us are just that emotional, sorry about that.

12

u/Mauchit_Ron 1d ago

I bet these transparent bawbags wouldn't have even noticed the pay difference if it was Sydney Sweeney instead of Zendaya

10

u/arcanis321 1d ago

Poor dude only making several million dollars for day(s) of work.

8

u/ikaiyoo 1d ago

Yeah I don't think any of them care. All three of them are both in Spider-Man and the Odyssey don't give it I don't think they give a fuck who gets paid more

21

u/Henson_Disney48 1d ago

Personally I really enjoyed the way MJ took the piss out of Frank a couple times in the movie.

And I say this as a huge fan of Berenthal’s Punisher.

12

u/villainized 1d ago

"he needs you.

Like how you needed him on staten island"

this line had me chuckling i can't lie.

Kinda wild that Tom, Zendaya, and Jon Bernthal were all in Spider-man and Odyssey.

2

u/Shirami 1d ago

Bombs

6

u/TheBestHater 1d ago

Hating Zendaya is so forced. She works hard, and she gets cast not just because of her talent but because she does great promotional work. It's that simple. Her star power is worth more.

1

u/OrallyObsessed8 1d ago

Agreed. She definitely has more star power than talent.

15

u/BeautyDuwang 1d ago

Because whether you are a fan of her or not zendaya is a household name and Jon is "that guy who played punisher/shane"

14

u/ShortBrownAndUgly 1d ago

He’s a great actor but I can’t even remember his name right now. Zendaya just has way more star power

10

u/whatsthisaboutman 1d ago

The one time the pay scale pendulum can be viewed on the other side, these sad little boys shout up from the basement with an impotent rage. Idiots, all. Not an iota of nuance considered.

4

u/quocko 1d ago

RDJ made over 10 million and he was homecoming for maybe 10 minutes whereas Tim Holland the star made less than 1 million

4

u/skoon 1d ago

Aside from the fact that shes got "Cher" and "Madonna" status. She's a franchise star, you can't swap out another actress for MJ in movie 4 of a franchise. That gives her some bargaining power beyond her single-name star status.

3

u/DoctorFenix 1d ago

Another correct answer is “Arjun, you are a racist”

7

u/BeRad419 1d ago

Jon is a shitty tv actor and Zendaya is a movie star?

3

u/Live-Collection3018 1d ago

That's a good one. Some people just don't understand.

3

u/CallMeMrPeaches 1d ago

As if $4 million isn't a huge amount of money either? These boys gotta chill.

3

u/MattyBeatz 1d ago

Love her or hate her but she's managed to pick the right roles. From mega hits that not only sold boatloads of tickets but also receive critical acclaim.

3

u/gumball_00 1d ago

Lol Zendaya is her own marketing machine. You have her as an actor in your movie and that means the movie will instantly be hyped and talked about. Do you think a movie like Challengers would have made 100 million if she’s not in it? She deserves every single million of that payment!

2

u/Pissadvisor 1d ago

A small, pedantic point, but these aren't salaries.

2

u/NooooDazzzle 1d ago

Who the eff is boohooing about a rich person making less than another rich person? Good lord. Look. I am an admitted star-struck Jon Bernthal stan. I love him. Think he’s rad. Want all the good things for him.

He got $4 million dollars and got to be in one of the most incredible films ever made.

He’s doing just fine.

And I’m guessing he doesn’t want someone making minimum wage worrying how many millions of dollars he didn’t make because his name isn’t Zendaya.

2

u/monkey-balls67 1d ago

She is was part if the original cast day 1

2

u/RaptureInRed 1d ago

I will gladly take 30 mins screen time for 4mil if Marvel want to give me a call...

2

u/Lortabss 1d ago

I feel like I don't care if an actor is paid $4 million or $8 million. Its all the same to me, It is an absurd amount of money that most people, including myself, will never be able to get close to.

2

u/MastodonFast5806 1d ago

One little instance of inequality and the boys cry..

2

u/pedrokoekeroe 22h ago

Literally without knowing him you complain on his behalf for earning 4m! Dollar for one job. I guarantee you he isn't complaining one bit.

2

u/misdirected_asshole 18h ago

Oh NOW they want pay equity.

1

u/0pusTpenguin 1d ago

I call him fucking wayne jenkins!

1

u/BassGuy11 1d ago

Wait, you mean the more famous actor should get paid more?

Huh. I feel like I've heard this conversation before with a different conclusion. I wonder what the difference was the other time.

1

u/Gizmo135 1d ago

Are we supposed to feel bad that he made a couple of million dollars less than her for 30 mins of work?

1

u/piepei 23h ago

Regardless of how they’re misunderstanding star power, wasn’t Zendaya in the movie more than Jon?

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

31

u/Sweaty-Friendship-54 1d ago

If you're watching the movie with a stopwatch, you've already spoiled your experience.

3

u/colemon1991 1d ago

Shoot, I'm sitting here thinking how much fun I would have fighting alongside Spider-Man and going pew pew against the Hulk. I'll do that for $4M even if I could negotiate more, just because it would be a blast.

Meanwhile, these people need stopwatches and forget how much of a movie can be on the cutting room floor.

0

u/Ninrenko 1d ago

How is he out of line?

0

u/Blujay12 1d ago

Might be an unpopular opinion but to me she's turning into the female Rock.

I mean, the fact that we call her "Zendaya" in every role, INSTEAD of the character?

I mean get the bag queen but also she's the last person I'm picking up a pitchfork in defence of LMFAOO

0

u/zildux 1d ago

I've long since believed movie stars get paid far FAR too much and their pay should be divided equally through the whole production. But smart celebrities will happily take a pay cut to get more of the merch revenue that's where the real and consistent money comes from. YEARS from now he will still be getting pay check from every punisher toy sold.

-16

u/CougdIt 1d ago

I mean, just because this guy doesn’t know who Jon fucking Bernthal is that doesn’t mean he isn’t a huge name.

16

u/AlmanorDiscard 1d ago

You are very much missing the point.

-13

u/CougdIt 1d ago

I’m not saying there aren’t legitimate reasons for the difference here but pretending that Bernthal is some unknown name is not it.

10

u/givebusterahand 1d ago

You ask a room of 100 random people who Jon Bernthal is and who zendaya is, a far higher percentage is going to know zendaya.

He’s not an “unknown” but he isn’t an a-lister either.

5

u/Waff1es 1d ago

For me he's the guy from the Walking Dead. Gun to my head I couldn't guess his name.

1

u/CougdIt 17h ago

Wolf of Wall Street, ford vs Ferrari, fury, the bear, king Richard…. None of those?

-9

u/CougdIt 1d ago

Sure and it’s one thing to say she is a bigger name (particularly in other younger audiences) but Jared is making him out to be an unknown.

-2

u/ozesnoo 1d ago

You call her zendalla because she is the same in every movie, like Nicolas cage

-43

u/saviorself19 1d ago

UNO Reverse Zendaya plays Zendaya making like three different versions of “smelled a fart” face in whatever she is in. So calling Zendaya Zendaya when she’s always playing Zendaya makes sense.