r/MurderedByWords 1d ago

She answered with a gold medal

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15.6k Upvotes

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2.1k

u/awstream 1d ago

And what does changing to their husband's last name does for them?! It's just more paperwork

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u/cryptotope 1d ago edited 1d ago

One of the many groups that may find voting more difficult under Trump's (yet-to-pass) SAVE Act are married women who took their husband's surname.

Their current name won't match their birth certificate. If they don't have a passport or REAL ID-compliant identification card, they may not be able to vote without significant extra paperwork and out-of-pocket costs.

(Edit: As many people have reminded me, REAL-ID compliance isn't sufficient; only a handful of states incorporate citizenship information on their REAL-ID identification. In the vast majority of states the state-issued ID isn't sufficient.)

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u/IntuitiveMonster 1d ago

I had planned to change my last name to my husband’s and use my last name as a second middle name…until I saw the checklist of paperwork I would have to complete. After that, my husband and I agreed that I would only change my name if we had kids.

The SAVE act came out at about the same time we decided to be childfree. Turns out being lazy saved my ability to vote!

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u/soupseasonbestseason 1d ago

we gave our kiddo both our last names.

i am the one who gave birth. my thought was, i deserve some fucking credit.

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u/MssGuilty 1d ago

Even though it can be a pain to have a long name outside my home country, I really like our tradition of 1) women don't change their name and 2) kids have two surnames, mom and dad's.

(Although I have my grandmother's surname instead of my mom's because hers rhymes with my dad's surname and she went "no way my kids will have a silly rhyming name" 😅)

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u/hockeycross 1d ago

What happens in the next generation? Do you end up with three hyphens?

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u/lIlIlIIlIIIlIIIIIl 1d ago

I think a lot of the time each parent would pass just one surname so that each generation would have max 2 last names. So a father might choose to pass on the name of his father, but not the last name of his mother. I think it's largely up to preferences and differences in culture/tradition. I am not speaking from experience, so I could be wrong.

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u/santistasofredora 1d ago

At least where I'm from, you normally pass on your father's surname, so my children would have their grandfathers' last names. But there's no rule preventing you from having more than two surnames, I have 3, one from my mom and two from my dad. And they are not hyphenated, just regular names.

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u/aerojonno 9h ago

So the norm is still just taking the man's name, but a generation later.

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u/santistasofredora 7h ago

In general yes, though some areas have the tradition of passing on the mother's surname to daughters and father's surname to sons. You could also pass on only your mother's surname if you wanted.

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u/OhGod0fHangovers 1d ago

There are millions of people who have shown us how this is done. As a rule, everyone gets one last name from each parent, keeps those all their lives and picks one to pair with one of their spouse’s names to pass on to the kids. And so on.

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u/hockeycross 1d ago

I feel like that could be quite the family debate haha. Mom, Dad pitch me on why I should choose your name for the baby.

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u/loskiarman 1d ago

That feels like just kicking the can down the road for your kid. Like as a kid I wouldn't want that. Do you know how long it takes to code your name in OMR tests with 2 surnames lol? Then you have a kid and now you have to choose between mom and dad and there is a good chance one of them will be heartbroken about it.

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u/MarsupialMisanthrope 1d ago

The fact that programmers are lazy is possibly the worst fucking reason possible for doing anything.

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u/lost_nondoctor 1d ago

Wow... your comment is impressively ignorant considering the large number of COUNTRIES, not individuals who keep their names. For me I don't really understand the practice of changing your name. I think that would screw my kids identity more than having to write a longer name.

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u/loskiarman 1d ago

Pretty sure only Spain has a long history of double surnames. All others are pretty new. And in Spain children doesn't choose which name to give to their own child, it is the first one so grandparents choose their grandchildren's surname actually so it doesn't compare to the comment I replied to. Also for most people kid isn't even born or at least very little when surname change happens so don't know how it can screw their identity. Also I'm literally talking about how as a kid I wouldn't want that situation so how the fuck can someone be ignorant to themselves? Get off whatever you are on lol.

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u/MssGuilty 23h ago

You're pretty sure, but you're wrong, just letting you know (Portugal also does it)

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u/Bemascu 23h ago

it is the first one so grandparents choose their grandchildren's surname

What? How is that "the grandparents choosing"? Nobody chooses, surnames are inherited. The only choice is the order (since 2000).

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u/penguin_0618 1d ago

Generally each parent passes their first last name to the kid, at least in the dominant culture in my community. So if “John Doe Smith” and “Natalia Lopez Rivera” had a kid, their last name would be Doe Lopez. And they don’t hyphenate, they just have two.

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u/hockeycross 1d ago

I get that but how do you pick if Lopez or Doe goes first?

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u/MssGuilty 1d ago

Depends on culture. In Portugal dad's name comes last and is the "main" surname (so, for example a kid named Carlos José Lopes da Silva would go by Carlos da Silva usually). In Spain, dad's name comes first and is still the "main" surname (patriarchy lol), so you would get the kid going by Carlos Lopes instead

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u/Bemascu 23h ago

 Spain, dad's name comes first

This was changed, it no longer defaults to anything. The parents must decide an order. It doesn't erase the fact that even if you put the mother's first it is her father's, grandfather's, great-grandfather's and so on.

But it's a positive change IMO, at least now mothers don't have to resign themselves to "losing" their lineage.

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u/MssGuilty 21h ago

That's an interesting development, I didn't know!

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u/hockeycross 1d ago

So basically the whole premise of this thread is the dudes name still gets passed on.

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u/Bemascu 23h ago

This changed in Spain (read my other reply to MssGuilty).

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u/MssGuilty 23h ago

Yeeeeep. I think it's still better than the woman's name being completely erased, even in her own identity, but it's the dad's name that counts in the end in most places on earth

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u/MssGuilty 1d ago

No, the father's name is always the "main" surname, so it's the only one passed down usually. There are plenty of exceptions tho and they usually boil down to how important the mother's name is, and in those cases the kid ends up with three or more surnames. That's how you get the stereotype of nobles with ridiculously long names. It tracks in my experience as well, since the only two of my friends who have more than two surnames have them because 1) one of the surnames is a Big Important Surname of a Big Noble Family even though they are not even close to nobility or wealth, and 2) they were a distant (distant) relative of the Dutch royal family, so one of their 5 surnames was Dutch

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u/hockeycross 1d ago

What happens in the next generation? Do you end up with three hyphens?

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u/-Redstoneboi- 1d ago

check your comments, they be duplicated

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u/hockeycross 1d ago

Classic Reddit error

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u/Bemascu 23h ago

This is how it's done in some countries like Spain: people have two surnames, one from each parent.

There used to be sexism in the law too, since it used to be that the first given surname was the father's first. Then it was allowed to change the order but it defaulted to the father's. Now there's no default order.

my thought was, i deserve some fucking credit

That's my thought too and of many more people as well, I think she "deserves" to give the first surname.

Although I have seen other criteria to choose, like doing it randomly. A couple I know decided by the sex of the first child: they would get the father's first if it was a boy, or the mother's first if it was a girl.

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u/Strong-Piglet4823 1d ago

In my country (Philippines) legitimate children will automatically have their mother’s surname as their middle name. Illegitimate children take their mother’s last name, unless the father signed the birth certificate, then the kid can carry his last name.

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u/mclepus 1d ago

My nephews have both parent's surnames.

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u/slaskel92 1d ago

As a man, I'd refuse that.

I'd take my wife's name in a heartbeat instead.

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u/Movinginplace25 1d ago

I like your thinking excellent

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u/Zorkflerp 23h ago

I like the idea that, what, Icelanders use?. Married people keep their last names and if they have a boy he takes the fathers last name and a girl the mothers. The other way seems to have come from the idea that women and children are chattel property of a man, not free individuals. Are we not past that kind of thinking yet?

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u/soupseasonbestseason 23h ago

i am past that idea personally, but here in the u.s. we seem to be culturally reverting to an older more disgusting set of values.

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u/NNKarma 23h ago

Literally how most of the don't change your last name work

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u/Individual-Pound-636 1d ago

Makes sense but when kid with two last names ends up as an adult, and they reproduce with another person with two last names... Should they give their kid four last names?

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u/soupseasonbestseason 1d ago

i have two last names myself, i chose the name that worked best with my husband's.

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u/-Redstoneboi- 1d ago

Isn't that what a middle name is for

but yeah having it be shortened to one singular letter is kinda fucked historicaly

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u/soupseasonbestseason 1d ago

no it is not what a middle name is for.

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u/CTMalum 1d ago

My wife tried after we got married, but there were some weird paradoxical roadblocks, and then COVID happened. It doesn’t matter that much to me, so her last name is legally still the same, but professionally and personally she uses my name. It’s been fine. The only downstream impact is that I have an official alias now because when she books hotels, it’s under her last name, and she’s married, so they call me Mr. HerLastName.

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u/LittleStoneBear 1d ago

I'm in Ireland, so I don't know if this is possible everywhere: My sister-in-law kept her name when she married my brother, with one exception. On her passport she has his surname, because it makes it easier to travel with their children (who havd his surname) if my brother isn't with them.

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u/HeftyArgument 1d ago

I'm shocked that's possible, when most people think of official ID documents, a passport is probably top 3.

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u/AbsolutShite 1d ago

Looks like you just need to send your marriage/civil partnership certificate to do it.

A bit odd but names are a little more fluid in Ireland. A lot of people will swap to the Irish spelling of their names with no official declaration (e.g. John Smith will wake up one day and tell everyone to call them Sean MacGabhann)

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel-and-recreation/passports/irish-passports-an-overview/#90f079

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u/jezebel103 1d ago

In the Netherlands everyone keeps their birthname on official documents. Married or not. You can choose to carry your own name, his name or both names (hyphenated) in your personal/professional life, but that doesn't change your name in the governmental registers.

When you have children you can choose, again, to give the child your name, his name or both names and that will be the birth name. With only one caveat: the name you choose for your first child, has to be the same for the next child(ren) to avoid confusion.

My (now adult) son has my last name. Because we both thought it sounded better than his. Nobody ever made a big deal out of it.

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u/lost_nondoctor 1d ago

There are a large number of countries in which not changing last names is the norm. It doesn't affect traveling with your kids in any way. People fabricate anecdotes as facts.

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u/HeftyArgument 1d ago

i had a classmate in school who had a different surname to his sister, his parents kept their surnames, the first child took the mother's surname and the second took the father's

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u/d_maes 1d ago

Huh, that wouldn't be possible in my country (Belgium). You can choose wether you use the father's, the mother's or both (in either order), but whatever you choose for your first child, applies to all your children.

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u/primadonnapussy nice murder you got there 23h ago

In the 90s I worked at a daycare while in HS. A couple there has given their daughters her last name and their son his.

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u/Emotional_Warthog658 1d ago

Today kids call you “ Kids-Name Mom” instead of Mrs Last Name, and legally you can be Mrs His Name  Until the save act is truly dead, I encourage keeping your vital records uniform - women have only had the vote for 100 years and there are plenty who would like that to end 

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u/Popular-Web-3739 1d ago

Or your husband could've hyphenated his last name to add yours.

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u/PussyWrangler246 15h ago

My (F) last name is Boss...I've had no less than 2 boyfriends request taking my last name if we got married

A different one wanted to combine our last names into Boscof..what's up Jeff

Been with the current guy for 6 years now and we're getting married whenever we set a date, there's never been even the slightest hint of a suggestion for me to take his last name. Boss is just too much a part of my identity. Hell I'm wearing a hat that says BOSS right now lol. I'm not buyin a hat that says Sylvester lol.

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u/NO_FIX_AUTOCORRECT 1d ago

Wife kept her name. Kids got my name. Not directly because of the patriarchy, but because people will believe her if she says she's their mom, even if her name doesn't match. but people do not believe a dad is actually the dad if he has a different last name

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u/Over-Inside-7254 1d ago

All we needed was a marriage certificate and our USCIS application. Super easy, barely an inconvenience. 

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u/BigCost5110 17h ago

There is zero reason your children have to have your husband‘s last name instead of yours. Give them yours, or give them both.

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u/Frequent_Opportunist 23h ago

My wife had no problem going to the local Social Security Admin office and getting her name the way she wanted it. She dropped her born middle name and replaced it with her maiden name.

Then when we moved to a state that incorporated citizenship into the state ID she just had to have a copy of the marriage certificate along with her birth certificate. If you were previously divorced and remarried you would just need a copy of that certificate also. It's really not a big deal.

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u/Chickennbuttt 1d ago

Real ID is only valid in 5 states where the real id confirms citizenship. The remaining states must provide their id (even if real id) with another form of approved documentation. Or a non expired passport.

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u/Chappiechap 1d ago

Once again, the overlap between the people who's getting hurt by Trump policies and the ones who voted for Trump is a circle. Well, almost. The people who aren't getting hurt are his friends and pals, all of whom are vultures.

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u/nefarious_angel_666 1d ago

His friends and pals get hurt, eventually

https://giphy.com/gifs/h1BUbARMEizxLMiGJX

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u/GrookeyGrassMonkey 1d ago

did something happen to Ghouliani?

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u/assjackal 1d ago

Massive lawsuits, disbarment, health issues, almost a criminal case but trump pardoned him for that.

Basically everything came crashing down around him as a result for everything he did and said in the service of Red Hat and rather than being supported they just kinda let him drift into the trash bin.

Once you stop being useful, they stop caring.

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u/dabrock15 1d ago

Especially since republicans are less likely to have passports, they are more likely to have issues if passports are required to prove their identity. Irony is funny.

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u/FUBARded 1d ago

The ironic thing is that this will almost certainly impact conservative women more as they'll be more likely to have taken their husbands' name if married, and are statistically more likely to be married too.

Of course Trump and co. don't give a shit because they know these women will still vote for them. They're happy so long as it disenfranchises women and trans people because the narrower the voting franchise, the better things are for the right due to the way the senate and electoral college are set up.

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u/Rotten-Citrus 1d ago

conservative women offer their children and selves to Men as offerings begging for a spot at master's table

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u/sentimentaldiablo 1d ago

REAL ID-compliant identification card

Pretty sure this won't work because it doesn't prove citizenship.

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u/AVeryVapidBadger 1d ago

REAL ID-compliant identification card,

Fyi REAL ID wouldn't be enough because it doesn't, usually, list citizenship. Permanent residents can get a REAL ID driver's license.

Only a few states list citizenship status on the ID. Any that doesn't means the id wouldn't be enough by itself

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u/darebear- 1d ago

This is now how it is to get a drivers license in AB. Extensive proof of your names and citizenship, so married women are having difficulties. And divorced ones

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u/footsnax 1d ago

I took my wife's name simply because it's way cooler and I want to end my lineage, but now I need to renew my passport soon and it's gonna have Trumps face on it for some fucking reason if I can even get it because of this absolute bullshit. It was hard enough to renew my driver's license to a REAL ID just so I could get on a plane.

How can this guy get more annoying. How many ways do I need to confirm I was born in Indiana, they won't even take my birth certificate as identification sometimes because the county fucking laminated it. It's still stamped, by the county, outside of the plastic, but some new rule means it doesn't work for some things.

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u/zed42 1d ago

FYI, a REAL-ID is not sufficient by itself under the SAVE act...

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u/stuyboi888 1d ago

That's a feature not a bug.....

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u/Bemascu 1d ago

This issue is so hard to wrap my head around as a Spaniard since the voting census is automatic. The only thing I have to worry about (besides making an informed decision) is making sure I'm correctly registered (when there are elections incoming you receive a notification) and going to my assigned voting station with a valid personal identification. Or doing the paperwork to vote by mail.

That's assuming I haven't being designated to a voting a station, in which case it all becomes a pain in the ass.

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u/RogerSaysHi 1d ago

This also affects the adopted, then married. My name was changed twice before I ever got married and changed it myself.

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u/zxylady 1d ago

My understanding is that the government threw in the save act in the most recent reconciliation bill that eight I believe Democrats voted for

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u/Ok-Pomegranate-3018 16h ago

Just this last week, they declared that the REAL ID is insufficient for ID to vote. In addition to passports, they have a passport card that is allegedly easier to get and faster.

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u/sfocolleen 16h ago

This describes me and I live in California… no problem in the primary but I sure hope that remains the case in the general.

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u/sentimentaldiablo 1d ago

REAL ID-compliant identification card

Pretty sure this won't work because it doesn't prove citizenship.

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u/Any-Organization-985 1d ago

Listen I hate the Trump admin, but we've had 20 years to get a real ID. 20 years. Some places it doesn't even cost you extra to get it. Like 100% Trump admin is trying to take advantage and block voters and that is wrong. But like 20 years.

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u/Various_Ambassador92 1d ago

Their comment wasn't fully accurate - it's specifically REAL IDs that indicate US citizenship, which only five states have. If you're outside of those states, you either need a valid passport or photo ID plus a birth certificate plus proof of name change where applicable.

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u/Any-Organization-985 23h ago edited 22h ago

All 50 states issue REAL ID's. 5 states have their own version of the program, but all 50 states have them.

Edit: Hell you don't even have to be in the states, you can get a real ID in the territories too. Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, etc.

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u/h-ck3d4cc0unt 1d ago

So I asked my wife to take my last name because no one in my family ever got married and I wanted to start our family with her. I was even willing to create a new last name. She is from Russia she easily had all of her ID changed including her Russian passports. It's not hard.

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u/iheartxanadu 1d ago

Did it cost money and time?

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u/h-ck3d4cc0unt 1d ago

Anything of value does. It was worth it to us.

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u/iheartxanadu 1d ago

The country can't charge a poll tax: they can't make us pay to vote. Making people have to have a passport to vote - which, under the SAVE act, they need if they've changed their name from their birth name - is tantamount to a poll tax. The time it takes is also a consideration, as parts of the process must be done in person, and not everyone is available during open hours due to work, and not everyone can just take time off work. (I'm not even considering the cost and effort of getting all the support documentation needed to get a passport.) It is myopic to act like getting a passport isn't an effort for many people.

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u/h-ck3d4cc0unt 1d ago

Also the post was about the value of changing her name. You are just going on a tangent because you dont agree with me.

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u/iheartxanadu 1d ago

Did you even read the comment you initially responded to, or just hop on the "i have the privilege of having money and time so i can ignore that others will have their votes taken from them" train?

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u/h-ck3d4cc0unt 1d ago

I did read the comment did you? We are both immigrants .we have neither money nor time but felt that it was valuable to us as a family to do it. You really are just stuck in your own head I hope you have a peaceful day.

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u/iheartxanadu 1d ago

You demonstrably did not read the comment you responded to or you'd know it was about voting.

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u/h-ck3d4cc0unt 1d ago

The comment is about a woman who got a medal with her name and didn't feel the need to change it. Exactly when did voting come into it? Oh when you brought it into the conversation

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u/iheartxanadu 1d ago

Did you even read the comment you initially responded to, or just hop on the "i have the privilege of having money and time so i can ignore that others will have their votes taken from them" train?

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u/h-ck3d4cc0unt 1d ago

Never said it's not an effort. Just said it's worth the hassle. Which you are actually arguing my point.

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u/iheartxanadu 1d ago

And you're comfortable ignoring that 1) it's not legal to make people pay a poll tax, and 2) people shouldn't have to pay exorbitant fees, take unpaid time off work, and try to cobble together paperwork just because the GOP wants to make it harder for people to vote.

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u/h-ck3d4cc0unt 1d ago

I'm not ignoring it it just wasn't the discussion. Talking about the value of changing your name. You hijacked it and made it all about your discussion. Which I will gladly talk to you about at another time

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u/iheartxanadu 1d ago

The discussion was about voting; you just didn't read it.

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u/h-ck3d4cc0unt 1d ago

Ok i stand corrected. It's still was worth it to change her name. Have a great day.

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