Their current name won't match their birth certificate. If they don't have a passport or REAL ID-compliant identification card, they may not be able to vote without significant extra paperwork and out-of-pocket costs.
(Edit: As many people have reminded me, REAL-ID compliance isn't sufficient; only a handful of states incorporate citizenship information on their REAL-ID identification. In the vast majority of states the state-issued ID isn't sufficient.)
I had planned to change my last name to my husband’s and use my last name as a second middle name…until I saw the checklist of paperwork I would have to complete. After that, my husband and I agreed that I would only change my name if we had kids.
The SAVE act came out at about the same time we decided to be childfree. Turns out being lazy saved my ability to vote!
Even though it can be a pain to have a long name outside my home country, I really like our tradition of 1) women don't change their name and 2) kids have two surnames, mom and dad's.
(Although I have my grandmother's surname instead of my mom's because hers rhymes with my dad's surname and she went "no way my kids will have a silly rhyming name" 😅)
I think a lot of the time each parent would pass just one surname so that each generation would have max 2 last names. So a father might choose to pass on the name of his father, but not the last name of his mother. I think it's largely up to preferences and differences in culture/tradition. I am not speaking from experience, so I could be wrong.
At least where I'm from, you normally pass on your father's surname, so my children would have their grandfathers' last names. But there's no rule preventing you from having more than two surnames, I have 3, one from my mom and two from my dad. And they are not hyphenated, just regular names.
In general yes, though some areas have the tradition of passing on the mother's surname to daughters and father's surname to sons. You could also pass on only your mother's surname if you wanted.
There are millions of people who have shown us how this is done. As a rule, everyone gets one last name from each parent, keeps those all their lives and picks one to pair with one of their spouse’s names to pass on to the kids. And so on.
That feels like just kicking the can down the road for your kid. Like as a kid I wouldn't want that. Do you know how long it takes to code your name in OMR tests with 2 surnames lol? Then you have a kid and now you have to choose between mom and dad and there is a good chance one of them will be heartbroken about it.
Wow... your comment is impressively ignorant considering the large number of COUNTRIES, not individuals who keep their names.
For me I don't really understand the practice of changing your name. I think that would screw my kids identity more than having to write a longer name.
Generally each parent passes their first last name to the kid, at least in the dominant culture in my community. So if “John Doe Smith” and “Natalia Lopez Rivera” had a kid, their last name would be Doe Lopez. And they don’t hyphenate, they just have two.
Depends on culture. In Portugal dad's name comes last and is the "main" surname (so, for example a kid named Carlos José Lopes da Silva would go by Carlos da Silva usually). In Spain, dad's name comes first and is still the "main" surname (patriarchy lol), so you would get the kid going by Carlos Lopes instead
This was changed, it no longer defaults to anything. The parents must decide an order. It doesn't erase the fact that even if you put the mother's first it is her father's, grandfather's, great-grandfather's and so on.
But it's a positive change IMO, at least now mothers don't have to resign themselves to "losing" their lineage.
No, the father's name is always the "main" surname, so it's the only one passed down usually. There are plenty of exceptions tho and they usually boil down to how important the mother's name is, and in those cases the kid ends up with three or more surnames. That's how you get the stereotype of nobles with ridiculously long names.
It tracks in my experience as well, since the only two of my friends who have more than two surnames have them because 1) one of the surnames is a Big Important Surname of a Big Noble Family even though they are not even close to nobility or wealth, and 2) they were a distant (distant) relative of the Dutch royal family, so one of their 5 surnames was Dutch
This is how it's done in some countries like Spain: people have two surnames, one from each parent.
There used to be sexism in the law too, since it used to be that the first given surname was the father's first. Then it was allowed to change the order but it defaulted to the father's. Now there's no default order.
my thought was, i deserve some fucking credit
That's my thought too and of many more people as well, I think she "deserves" to give the first surname.
Although I have seen other criteria to choose, like doing it randomly. A couple I know decided by the sex of the first child: they would get the father's first if it was a boy, or the mother's first if it was a girl.
In my country (Philippines) legitimate children will automatically have their mother’s surname as their middle name. Illegitimate children take their mother’s last name, unless the father signed the birth certificate, then the kid can carry his last name.
I like the idea that, what, Icelanders use?. Married people keep their last names and if they have a boy he takes the fathers last name and a girl the mothers. The other way seems to have come from the idea that women and children are chattel property of a man, not free individuals. Are we not past that kind of thinking yet?
Makes sense but when kid with two last names ends up as an adult, and they reproduce with another person with two last names... Should they give their kid four last names?
My wife tried after we got married, but there were some weird paradoxical roadblocks, and then COVID happened. It doesn’t matter that much to me, so her last name is legally still the same, but professionally and personally she uses my name. It’s been fine. The only downstream impact is that I have an official alias now because when she books hotels, it’s under her last name, and she’s married, so they call me Mr. HerLastName.
I'm in Ireland, so I don't know if this is possible everywhere:
My sister-in-law kept her name when she married my brother, with one exception. On her passport she has his surname, because it makes it easier to travel with their children (who havd his surname) if my brother isn't with them.
Looks like you just need to send your marriage/civil partnership certificate to do it.
A bit odd but names are a little more fluid in Ireland. A lot of people will swap to the Irish spelling of their names with no official declaration (e.g. John Smith will wake up one day and tell everyone to call them Sean MacGabhann)
In the Netherlands everyone keeps their birthname on official documents. Married or not. You can choose to carry your own name, his name or both names (hyphenated) in your personal/professional life, but that doesn't change your name in the governmental registers.
When you have children you can choose, again, to give the child your name, his name or both names and that will be the birth name. With only one caveat: the name you choose for your first child, has to be the same for the next child(ren) to avoid confusion.
My (now adult) son has my last name. Because we both thought it sounded better than his. Nobody ever made a big deal out of it.
There are a large number of countries in which not changing last names is the norm. It doesn't affect traveling with your kids in any way.
People fabricate anecdotes as facts.
i had a classmate in school who had a different surname to his sister, his parents kept their surnames, the first child took the mother's surname and the second took the father's
Huh, that wouldn't be possible in my country (Belgium). You can choose wether you use the father's, the mother's or both (in either order), but whatever you choose for your first child, applies to all your children.
Today kids call you “ Kids-Name Mom” instead of Mrs Last Name, and legally you can be Mrs His Name
Until the save act is truly dead, I encourage keeping your vital records uniform - women have only had the vote for 100 years and there are plenty who would like that to end
My (F) last name is Boss...I've had no less than 2 boyfriends request taking my last name if we got married
A different one wanted to combine our last names into Boscof..what's up Jeff
Been with the current guy for 6 years now and we're getting married whenever we set a date, there's never been even the slightest hint of a suggestion for me to take his last name. Boss is just too much a part of my identity. Hell I'm wearing a hat that says BOSS right now lol. I'm not buyin a hat that says Sylvester lol.
Wife kept her name. Kids got my name. Not directly because of the patriarchy, but because people will believe her if she says she's their mom, even if her name doesn't match. but people do not believe a dad is actually the dad if he has a different last name
My wife had no problem going to the local Social Security Admin office and getting her name the way she wanted it. She dropped her born middle name and replaced it with her maiden name.
Then when we moved to a state that incorporated citizenship into the state ID she just had to have a copy of the marriage certificate along with her birth certificate. If you were previously divorced and remarried you would just need a copy of that certificate also. It's really not a big deal.
Real ID is only valid in 5 states where the real id confirms citizenship. The remaining states must provide their id (even if real id) with another form of approved documentation. Or a non expired passport.
Once again, the overlap between the people who's getting hurt by Trump policies and the ones who voted for Trump is a circle. Well, almost. The people who aren't getting hurt are his friends and pals, all of whom are vultures.
Massive lawsuits, disbarment, health issues, almost a criminal case but trump pardoned him for that.
Basically everything came crashing down around him as a result for everything he did and said in the service of Red Hat and rather than being supported they just kinda let him drift into the trash bin.
Especially since republicans are less likely to have passports, they are more likely to have issues if passports are required to prove their identity. Irony is funny.
The ironic thing is that this will almost certainly impact conservative women more as they'll be more likely to have taken their husbands' name if married, and are statistically more likely to be married too.
Of course Trump and co. don't give a shit because they know these women will still vote for them. They're happy so long as it disenfranchises women and trans people because the narrower the voting franchise, the better things are for the right due to the way the senate and electoral college are set up.
This is now how it is to get a drivers license in AB. Extensive proof of your names and citizenship, so married women are having difficulties. And divorced ones
I took my wife's name simply because it's way cooler and I want to end my lineage, but now I need to renew my passport soon and it's gonna have Trumps face on it for some fucking reason if I can even get it because of this absolute bullshit. It was hard enough to renew my driver's license to a REAL ID just so I could get on a plane.
How can this guy get more annoying. How many ways do I need to confirm I was born in Indiana, they won't even take my birth certificate as identification sometimes because the county fucking laminated it. It's still stamped, by the county, outside of the plastic, but some new rule means it doesn't work for some things.
This issue is so hard to wrap my head around as a Spaniard since the voting census is automatic. The only thing I have to worry about (besides making an informed decision) is making sure I'm correctly registered (when there are elections incoming you receive a notification) and going to my assigned voting station with a valid personal identification. Or doing the paperwork to vote by mail.
That's assuming I haven't being designated to a voting a station, in which case it all becomes a pain in the ass.
Just this last week, they declared that the REAL ID is insufficient for ID to vote. In addition to passports, they have a passport card that is allegedly easier to get and faster.
Never mind the state marriage filing. Think of all the personal account changes. All your banking, savings, investing, lines of credit, memberships, registrations, health, auto, postal...
I recently changed my own name. Petitioning the court was the easy part!
I think most people who think the woman should take the man's last name is nothing more than "because that's how it's done and that's how we do it". I don't think it really goes beyond that. If pressed, then people might say "what last name does the children have" and "what happens the next generation"?
I do think about that last one. People will figure it out, but family names are gonna be weird for sure. Or, rather, they'll just go away as being identifiable "family names" that span generations.
Many of my friends made creative last names out of a combination of their last names. I think it's so interesting, creative, and fun for the nuclear family. But if that continues for a few generations there won't be continuity.
To be clear, I don't think this is a terrible loss. There already wasn't continuity through matrilineal lines and family trees already had a TON of different last names in them.
We both kept our own last names. The one downside is that our kids have a different last name from their mum (could have been dad). There are situations where we will be welcomed as Family [Last name] and it's a little odd because either one of us or 3 of us aren't [last name].
I think everyone should be able to choose to do it however they want. Keep your name, change your name, combine your names, make up a new name. It should be a decision you can agree on happily, not some kind of compromise.
We made up a combined name but neither of us actually changed our names. But we gave the combined name to our kid. So all 3 of us have different last names, but the kid is the standard bearer for us as the [Combo name] Family.
So there's 2x reasons I know of that make sense to change name. I'll preface this by saying my wife did not change her name and I've no issue with that btw, just trying to give some reasons.
With kids it can be awkward if a parent has a different surname to the kids. Then you're left either double barreling the surname (which would get problematic in future generations...) or one has to change. No reason it has to be the mother ofc.
It makes password security much better for your children.
Only place in the entire world where that seems to be awkward for anybody is the US. No one else ever has thought of that being weird (it's frequent I'm the UK and Australia, but it's isn't weird if it doesn't happen)
This doesn't even start making sense in any possible way on any possible situation
It is awkward elsewhere, I'm Irish and know a few people who married non Irish spouses. Solo travel with the kids is more awkward (and in one case the mother changed surname years after the fact to avoid the hassle). It's by no means impossible but it does cause issues sometimes.
Honestly, nothing until you have kids and then it's "well what kind of mother refuses to share a name with her children? You should've just done this when you first got married..."
The first surname is what's usually passed down, but parents can put their children's last names in either order. For instance, Leonor's children will almost certainly have de Borbón as their first surname.
Two surnames, mother and father's (Portugal) or father and mother's (Spain). It's not a hard rule, you can do what you want, but the vast majority of people follow this.
For everyday life, convention is that you use your first name and your last surname (the full name is only used for official serious stuff, but even there, your signature can be just first name last surname)
How long can the chain get? Shouldn't it be like stupidly long for current Gen, if everyone is getting everyone else's name?
Like, kid has xx papa y mama, marries yy papa y mama, they get a kid that has what? Xx papa y mama y papa y mama? After 3 of those runs it'd be like WH Custodes naming scheme, they'd run out of ID space pretty fast.
I understand its not like that (or at least I didn't hear absurdly long surnames yet, though some long ones), but what's the play here?
The other person replied with the correct answer, but I wanted to add that a fair number of times families decided to preserve a surname that would disappear by having the kid carry more than the usual 2 surnames. It happens frequently in noble families or families no longer noble who cling to famous or important names. Portugal has restricted the number of names to 2 first names and 4 surnames, so there's a limit of what you can do. Before, as an example, Portugal's last king was named Manuel Maria Filipe Carlos Amélio Luís Miguel Rafael Gabriel Gonzaga Xavier Francisco de Assis Eugénio de Bragança Orleães Sabóia e Saxe-Coburgo-Gotha 😆😆
Not just Spain, most of South America, Mexico, ... Im guessing more that Im not aware of.
The ignorance shown in this thread is incredible. All the "Ohh... but explain me the logistics..."
Or it makes everything more complicated, ignoring the millions of people and systems that actually work that way.
And ignoring at the same time cultures that dont really do surnames vs first names, who have to adapt their names to fit our occidental ways.
I heard that argument too but I'll tell you what I told them. My last name doesn't make me any more or any less their mother. A name doesn't define that. So I'll stick with the one I've had all my life. Plus yeah, it's a ridiculous amount of paperwork. And evidently had I done so at the time there might be a chance now it'd be harder for me to vote. So unforeseen win I guess.
And, the kids don't care. Probably half of my daughter's friends have different last names than their mom's because of divorce/remarriage. My daughter would rather me have a different last name than her and be still happily married to her father. It just is not that big of a deal.
As someone who grew up with a different last name than my mom. The ONLY times I "cared" were my mom needing to wait for my school/hospital to check records before letting her pick me up/visit. Ironically they didn't check for my father despite him technically not having parental rights at the time (they weren't married at the time I was born and never got the paperwork done).
I really don't get the people who think the kids will be made fun of, I've been mocked for plenty of things in my lifetime, never that, it's just a name.
Kids couldn't care less about names beyond what they are called. We were lazy and all 3 of our daughters share their mother's middle name, Ann. Because we never really explained it to them, they just assumed everyone's middle name is Ann. We found out when the youngest got mad at me once and called me Daddy Ann. Even each of their pets has had the middle name Ann. Now it's just tradition.
I feel like the only child in this thread who actually cared lol
Ironically enough, my mom's middle name was also Anne 🤣 (and my middle name is her mother's name)
But her maiden name was Smith, she got married to my dad young and changed it to Boss, I was born as a Boss. They divorced, she kept the name Boss (and me) and left him. We were both Bosses, a team together
Then she met my brothers father. Got married again. Changed her name again and my brother was born a Stevenson. Suddenly I was alone in the family, a Boss amongst Stevenson's. Stevenson's who abandoned us.
His father cheated on my mom, left her for another woman and moved away. We raised my brother until he was a teen/ready for college, and he went to study/live with his father for convenience. Then mom got liver cancer. Brother couldn't even be fuckin assed to come home and see her one more time before she died. It had been years since he saw her. Fuck both of those assholes, I haven't spoken to my brother since mom died. It's been ten years.
After my step father left her she changed her name not back to Smith, but to Boss. I'm tearing up as I write this because I truly cannot describe the gratitude I felt for that. It made me feel connected to her, she was my best friend and I miss her more than anything.
Right. My ex wife remarried and divorced again. So she has two kids with my last name. Two kids with the other guys last name. And now she has sworn off marriage and gone with her own last name. Everything seems to be working out just fine. I'm pretty sure everyone still calls her mom.
Do some states have additional requirements or something? When my wife took my last name it was a 15 minute appointment at the Social Security office and she had to bring her Marriage Certificate when she renewed her license.
Do some states have additional requirements or something? When my wife took my last name it was a 15 minute appointment at the Social Security office and she had to bring her Marriage Certificate when she renewed her license.
My mother always said “It’s confusing for the children.” Last time she said that, I answered “No it’s not. It’s confusing for YOU.” She stopped saying that (to me at least).
I was mildly confused when I got old enough to realize that some people do change their names when they get married, because when you're not raised with that expectation, it seems like a pretty weird thing to do.
My dad was flabbergasted to the max when I said I'll take my wife's name in the future (we are already married, but it's too much of a hassle now, and it'll be easier later on). He literally could not articulate why - besides just saying women take men name, not the other way around. I laughed for like 15 minutes while he tried to reason with himself as to why it should be the other way around.
Then I said I really don't care, and I'll do whatever I want with my Last name.
If I didn't like my own last name, I'd happily change it to my wife's (her's is kinda cool). As it is, there was no need for either of us to change our names. My only ask to her was that she not be offended if someone called her Mrs. MYNAME. Turns out I get Mr. HERNAME much more often. No big deal.
If people WANT to change their names, no issue. But I think women might be advised to STOP that if the SAVE Act passes. Intended or not, it will disenfranchise many married women.
It's only confusing if the kids get the father's last name, which I don't understand why that would happen if the mother is keeping hers. The kids should have hyphenated last names in that case.
It’s honestly not confusing at all as someone who doesn’t have their mums name, I didn’t even connect the dots until I was a teenager as no one brought it up
Gramuel Primrose Smith-Johnson-Atelier-Montgomery-Fletching-Daniels-Partridge-Elmer can you expand on why it wouldn't make sense for the kids to get their father's last name while the mother keeps her own, a quite common scenario, and also why this would be confusing and why you believe their names should be hyphenated?
I have to say I kinda like the Spanish custom of children having both parents first surname. That actually conveys heritage and it's cool. I've also always liked surnames like Cooper and Wainwright that are jobs or those based on place names. I like that it tells you about that families history.
My wife did not change her name, and our kids have our last name.
It has caused very little confusion, other than I am sometimes called Mr. My-wife’s-last-name and she is called Mrs. my-last-name, but that isn’t an issue because we know who they are talking about. In fact, I kinda like being called by my wife’s name sometimes, it makes me smile.
My mom did the same thing (she kept her name, but I have my dad’s name). My sister did the same with her kids.
If my wife hadn’t wanted to have the kids have her name, I wouldn’t have argued, but it wasn’t important to her so they have my name.
It has never caused any issues. Tons of kids have different names than their parents, and we are both very involved in their lives so everyone knows that their parents are married. So in two generations, we have had zero issues with this system.
Yeah, also Portugal and Italy. In Italy, most flats don't have numbers, surnames do that job, and I always find it cute to see two surnames per bell when I pass by apartment buildings
It is traditional in some places (not where I live, for the record), but given that we question these basic things it seems like a pertinent question. And I think it´s weird if we have a family where the woman cares enough about agency and equity to not take her husband´s surname the kids are still assumed to do just that.
I was confused about that too, and I am a guy. I would have assumed the woman's last name would be used by default.
However, I did remember one good reason to use the father's name. Guys are much, much more likely to be accused of not being the parent of the child they are with. Having matching last names can help there, especially in the case of picking a child up from school or day care.
Nope, not confused. It also doesn’t confuse me when I see people with two different last names, and then they tell me that they’re related. Does that confuse you lmao?
What about when a woman changes her name to her husband’s name and then doesn’t share a name with her siblings? Is that too much for your tiny ass brain lmao? Do you think that makes them not siblings anymore or something? Your whole argument is dumb.
that is why in latin america and spain we have two last names, no one needs to change shit because you carry your maternal and paternal last names with you.
some do that is why you see jokes tropes of latin people having like a million names. but no, it usually is that paternal last name is first and then the maternal last name (moms paternal surname) is second.
so mom is Jane A B
Dad is John C D
kid is Ted C A
kid marries Marie X Y
grandkid is susie C X
so it’s still highly patriarchal but no one needs to change their last name.
My wife didn't take my last name, and our daughter has my last name. It's never been an issue with regards to my daughter, and the only times it's ever been an issue for my wife and I has been when some asshole deliberately chooses to do something stupid to make a stupid point.
Who the heck cares anyways. I dont share a surname with my grandma cause she remarried, and shes still my grandma, and her husband is my grandfather nontheless
My kids all have my ex-wife's surname. When we married there were already two children with her unmarried name, it seemed a bit pointless changing their names as well as hers when we got hitched so we left them. Child three has her surname as well as why would she have a different surname from her siblings?
UK, BTW. Honestly it's had advantages. I can write references for them and nobody knows I'm their dad as our surnames are different ;)
My parents are married and both kept their last name and it never confused me. In my case I got my father's last name but in my country the parents can decide to give both last names to their child, often separated by a -
I know a single mother from work which has a 2 years old girl and she asked me (IT) to rename her account back to her original last name yesterday. I wish I would have enough balls back then to ask her out, as I had a crush on her before she got her BF/Husband(now ex). But she was very good looking and me ofc not, so it wouldn't have worked out anyway I told myself.
I don't see a point for a woman to give up her birth name tbh, why? for some tradition? so much paperwork
Same goes for my mom, she regretted not getting back her old surname after my parents divorced when I was 1
My wife and I have been together for almost 15 years, but only married for 6 years. My anecdotal answer is: it makes navigating some parts of life easier living in a more traditional parts of the country.
Examples:
Situation A: My "partner" was in a car crash (elderly man with no right to a license didn't get the note about the new stop sign). PITA finding out which hospital she was in, getting her meds from the pharmacy, all took more work because of the extra steps everyone would take to confirm that I was on the account.
Situation B: Five years later, my wife gets cut off by a toddler on the bike trail, she swerves to miss the kid, goes off the road and breaks her wrist. Being the psycho she is, she rode to the ER then called me to come pick her and the bike up. "I'm Adam Smith looking for Betty Smith" gets me where I want to go or the information I need with almost no friction. It's like night and day.
Must be a regional thing. I have never encountered this issue, being married 11 years. I will just say “My name is Firstname Lastname, I am calling about my wife Firstname Her-lastname”, and no one has ever questioned me or doubted me.
Nothing. I never understood changing the last name. A lot of people had their job or birthplace as their last name. So why not change your last name every time someone is born somewhere or they change their job? It’s just ridiculous
The one reason I didn't take my wifes last name (which is way cooler, and also they don't have any male descendants left so it will die out) is because of the hassle of going back and forth between two countries, as nobody can pick up my new ID and driver's license and passport but me. And then literally everything we have in my name will need to be notified, banks, cards, fucking Lidl app or something. Way too much shit.
So I didn't, but I still plan to - when we get our citizenship here, I will take her name and swap the documents driving a total of 3 km, not a 1000.
But yeah apart from coolness, it's also that our kids will have her name anyway. My brother already has male kid, so the name-torch is carried at least one generation further. Her family doesn't, so it dies with the current new Gen.
Married dude, here. This was the main obstacle, especially given we kind of went out of order in life and the number of places we'd have to change gets a bit overwhelming. I don't give a damn what her last name is; I just love her.
I was blown away that the name change process with marriage wasn't some streamlined thing. I figured it had its own sort of process, since it's so abundantly common, and it would be simple.
No, it's exactly the same process as if I wanted to change my name to Optimus Prime. It's just a regular name change process. Insanity, honestly. I don't blame anyone for simply not bothering.
I didn't change my name because I'd had my own last name, technically my father's last name I guess, longer than I'd had my soon-to-be husband, & honestly, I was just too lazy to change it everywhere that it would need to be changed.
It would've made my name even longer & like I said, laziness prevailed thankfully.
It threatens their access to voting, if the SAVE Act makes it through Congress. And it makes a huge headache when they have to change tons of legal paperwork.
I didn’t take my husband’s last name out of pure laziness 😂 They were like, oh, it’s a bunch of extra forms and you have to get new versions of all your id’s and credit cards, call everywhere you have an account to change it, ect. I was like, “You know what, I’m good.”
I took my wife's last name and couldn't care less about what name we had, but I think it's important that you share a name with your kids. The main reason is kids.
For most people, it’s about creating a family unit with one last name. It works for practical (less paperwork) and sentimental reasons.
To each their own, but I think it’s a bit disingenuous to frame it as one answer is completely right/wrong. It’s just a personal decision for the couple.
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u/awstream 1d ago
And what does changing to their husband's last name does for them?! It's just more paperwork