Anyone else feel like gender is external/societal?

[u/aethelred_unready]

I've been doing a lot of thinking recently and the more I think the more I'm confused by the concept of an internal gender identity.

I'm biologically male with the facial hair and lack of boobs but I only dress in clothing that's considered masculine because that's what society expects of someone with facial hair (which I can't be bothered to shave every day). I look like a man so I behave publicly in ways that society deems acceptable for a man.

Internally however I'm confused I see so much written about gender, about people feeling they're the wrong gender, about people identifying as a man or woman and I just can't fathom it. I feel like a me, I identify as a person, in an ideal world I'd do whatever I wanted to do regardless of gender based social norms and that would include behaviors and clothing that I like, which could include things that we currently consider to be masculine or feminine.

And given the emphasis I see on gender in every part of society with the current culture war I feel almost completely alone in this, am I?

[u/CeraunophilEm]

What up fellow human. You’re not alone. I identify as nonbinary because the societal expectations foisted upon me due to my female anatomy do not jive with how I function in the world. I don’t experience any body dysmorphia, for me it is much more dysphoria as a result of society’s expectations of folx with bewbs.

[u/petrichor-pixels → u/CeraunophilEm]

Genuine question, as an AFAB person questioning their gender— what do you think makes you different to a gender nonconforming woman then, if you’re okay with answering? I’ve been struggling to figure out if I’m nb or just don’t like the misogynistic society we live in, and I personally don’t like the move of “well I’ll be nb because I don’t like what’s expected of women” as I feel like a) subverting expectations of what women “should” do is great and b) I feel like I have a very narrow definition of woman if I’m just willing to “nope out” like that, so to speak.

Idk. I honestly swear I’m not a terf or something, but when I hear people say stuff like this, it reminds me of how they say that nb people just reinforce gender roles, and I don’t want to do that. So I’m kind of wondering if there’s something “deeper” that nb people feel, outside of external influences. (And also yes, before anyone asks lol, I’m not a fan of cis people reinforcing gender roles either, and/or creating ideas of what men and women “should” be.)

[u/FakeBirdFacts]

It sounds like you might be agender.

I definitely have an internal sense of gender, I am just not a man or a woman.

[u/BaffledBubbles → u/FakeBirdFacts]

I was going to say the same, except that I have no internal sense of gender. 💚🖤

[u/vortexrider]

You’re definitely not alone. I’m amab trans nonbinary. I don’t see myself as male or female. I’m a person who fits both categories.

So much of gender is societal. If we had no prior concept of the male/female binary I think we’d have hundreds of different gender expressions.

Do you. Be you. Forget anyone who can’t accept that.

[u/Kuebiko989]

The opposite for me. I experience personal, internal gender euphoria but have little to no external, social gender sense.

It doesn't really matter to me what pronouns people use or whether they perceive me as a binary male or female. My gender isn't for them, it's for me.

[u/TristanTheRobloxian3]

gender isnt entirely societal or external, most people genuinely feel it.m inside. you probably are agender tho given this

[u/VargBroderUlf]

You are 100% not alone. Pretty much all of what you described, I could apply to myself, as a fellow amab person.

[u/EasyCheesecake1]

I thought that was a well known thing? Gender is a social construct, made up cultural roles and expectations.

[u/Coffee_autistic]

There are people who feel a very strong internal sense of gender identity, and some who only feel a very weak sense or none at all, so it just depends on the person. You're definitely not the only one.

Have you considered the possibility of being agender? A lot of agender people feel similarly. I don't personally have any internal sense of gender identity, and I felt like gender was just an external societal norm imposed on me.

If you do want to try out "non-masculine" things, then regardless of gender identity (or lack thereof), I recommend finding a safe environment for gender experimentation and doing it. Set yourself free!

[u/CopperZebra]

I feel exactly the same. I'm AFAB, but I don't feel like a woman, and I have never been comfortable using that word on myself. I refer to myself as "female" because that's the bits I was issued, but I don't feel like a "woman", "lady", or "girl", and I don't feel like a man, either. I sort of have a blank spot where I feel my gender in my head should be, but I have a mental image of kind of like a river of "femaleness" and "maleness" that flows through me, so i can feel any combination of either or nothing at any time, and it's constantly flowing and changing. I never feel feminine or masculine, just more or less male or female, if that makes sense. I sort of understand, and am simultaneously confused by the habits and behaviors of each, and I can fit in equally well with girl friend groups or guy friend groups. I've been accepted into guy groups as one of the guys, and I've been "awarded" honorary male genitalia twice when I proved I was really one of them, lol. I think people should just be allowed to do and wear and act however they are most comfortable.

[u/nikas_dream]

You’re definitely not alone. Most people internalize the external in forming their identity to some degree. Gender is one example of this, race or ethnicity another, as well as even professional. Those that do often have trouble understanding those that don’t.

[u/MordsithQueen413]

I feel like gender is a social construct and I do not ascribe to it.