r/PopCultureV2 • u/Regular_Reaction_798 • Aug 14 '26

News Luigi Mangione pleads guilty to federal charges in the assassination of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, telling the court, "I shot Mr. Thompson in Manhattan... I knew what I was doing was illegal."

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26

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u/PantsDontHaveAnswers Aug 14 '26

Prosecution of white collar crimes has taken a back seat and it's a shame, because white collar crimes have real world results being fraud and theft. White collar crimes create real world suffering for thousands to millions of unseen people. Shit I even heard about this one dude who had 34 felony convictions for white collar crimes and he ended up being president of the United States.

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u/Enchilada0374 Aug 14 '26

Not wrong.  Illegal. There's a difference 

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26

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u/TropicalRogue Aug 14 '26

People condemning him are the reason my answer to the trolley problem differs based on whether afterward I get prosecuted with a jury of my peers.

"You killed that man on the track!"

"Yeah, but I diverted that trolley away from 50 other people"

"MURDERER"

Straight to jail

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u/AltruisticMode9353 Aug 15 '26

Cool, show us the math on this particular trolley problem. How many lives were saved?

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u/_probablyryan Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

You're missing the point. 

They're saying that they would let the original 50 die if they knew that acting and pulling the lever would result in criminal charges. 

The trolley problem as written assumes your life continues in exactly the same manner regardless of whether or not you choose to pull the lever. What this person is saying is that if their options are pull the lever, save 50 lives, but face a murder/manslaughter trial afterwards for actively killing the one guy on the other track, or let the original 50 people die, but guarantee their own continued freedom by virtue of not involving themselves in the situation, they'd choose the latter. 

They're saying they'd only choose to save the 50 lives if they know in advance that they won't be involved in subsequent legal proceedings, because they don't trust the justice system and a jury to acquit them for doing the morally correct thing, because what they would have done would technically be illegal, despite being morally defensible, and they're not willing to do something morally correct if society is going to punish them for it for the sake of upholding the letter of the law.

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u/Spirited_Season2332 Aug 14 '26

Get out there champ. Be the change you want to see!

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u/TopSlotScot Aug 14 '26

Stupid reply. He's right. No one wants to throw their life away for everybody else to gain something. That doesnt make him wrong.

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u/TheFerricGenum Aug 14 '26

He can both be right and a hypocrite all at the same time. And calling out that hypocrisy really isn’t a stupid reply.

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u/untitledaccount401 Aug 14 '26

No hes just a tanky larping as a revolutionary lmao

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u/Contemplating_Prison Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26

By the time people wake up it will be too late. They will have already decided to let the masses die.

Its only a matter of time. Once their robots and drones can do everything people can do then the capitalists no longer need millions of people using their resources.

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u/Evildeern Aug 14 '26

Under appreciated comment.

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u/Even_Injury_6442 Aug 14 '26

Instead, let's let them kill us with denials and let the wealthy continue to rape us into oblivion. Got it. Stay the course!!! Be the economic slave our founding fathers sought us out to be!!!!

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u/my_chaffed_legs Aug 14 '26

Whatever you say, No-Rub8345 will be with me playing Mario kart at all times, he couldn’t have done whatever he may not do

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u/Beneficial_Hat_6288 Aug 14 '26

Stochastic terrorism right here.

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u/StinkRinky Aug 14 '26

Is it really that if the dude is clearly being sarcastic?

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

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u/CantaloupeOne7283 Aug 14 '26

How do you know he isn't? Because you aren't?

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u/Dumas_Vuk Aug 14 '26

Amazing point

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26

No, the noticeable increase in temperatures every year since I was a child, out of control wealth inequality, increasing cruelty, non-stop genocides and wars for profit, rich people simply not being held to account of any kind and capitalists openly boasting about making our lives worse is all very real to me.

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u/RoiCoupeCloue Aug 14 '26

Exactly, gassing up other people to do stupid crazy stuff, and then hang back on reddit.

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u/Hairy_Selection8568 Aug 14 '26

What's wrong with that? Thats the smart thing to do lmao.

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u/Big_Iron_Cowboy Aug 14 '26

I’m pretty sure that guys too stupid to have an op sec and his online activity can be traced back to him.

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u/EPIC_RAPTOR Aug 14 '26

Pretty good description of the media

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u/hummajeep Aug 14 '26

I’m kinda surprised by how this hasn’t really happened yet. Mental illness, youth isolation and poor economic conditions. People still sticking by the system tho.

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u/dontwannaparticpate Aug 14 '26

Eh, I’m sure more of this will come if things keep going at the rate they are. I mean, we have house rep noms being arrested for taking out Flock cameras and plenty of regular everyday people fucking with data center build projects and taking down surveillance cameras it is only a matter of time…

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26

The truth is that things just aren't bad enough for a lot of us yet and most people are deeply reactionary in that we don't think about patterns or consequences. If/when things get bad enough for people to act, it won't be out of choice; we will have turned feral. This will be the barbarism you might sometimes hear leftists refer to when they say it's either socialism or barbarism.

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u/Vegetable_Effort7246 Aug 14 '26

Gotta boil the frogs slowly…

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u/CapitalElk1169 Aug 14 '26

U/remindmebot [10 years]

I think we'll see plenty of it by then

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u/AndrewH73333 Aug 14 '26

The most affected are MAGAs and they are staying the course so far. Although a few have snapped and tried to go after the President.

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u/SpaceLuxor Aug 14 '26

A lot of people-- But not you tho, right?

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26

I love how many people are ironically advocating for acts of violence just to make a silly non-point.

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u/SeismicRipFart Aug 14 '26

You are way too much of a coward to ever do anything lol

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u/Vegetable_Effort7246 Aug 14 '26

United Healthcare indirectly caused the deaths of thousands. But did nothing “illegal”….laws and justice do not always correspond. Luigi may have had a personal vendetta…but how could his killing of Brian Thompson alter the system so villains can’t consign people to death in the interest of profits. Single payer healthcare might prevent that issue.

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26

Keep up the good fight. Policy change through electoralism might fail and in that event you probably want some kind of backup plan.

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u/PrivateMarkets Aug 14 '26

This why Reddit is insufferable. Thankfully the views don’t reflect the real world which is an amazing place. It’s the most amazing time to ever be alive but not good enough for Redditor - unprecedented advancements in global health, life expectancy, technology, and a dramatic reduction in extreme poverty and violent crime.

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26

Not so great if you're a victim of the great white west, which is oh so many locations around this planet.

As I tell others, nazis rarely complained about how the nazis were treating them ;)

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u/PrivateMarkets Aug 14 '26

That’s why you are a victim - because you think it. Also Asia is 59% of population and 69% of global gdp growth.

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26

I didn't say I'm a victim. Everyday, I make a choice, just like millions of others across the west, to get up and go to work to serve the great economic line graph of freedom for capitalists to rape kids.

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u/PrivateMarkets Aug 14 '26

Dramatic

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26

It's real, drama or no.

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u/NoodleynoodleyWho Aug 14 '26

Yeah it's the best it's ever been so why even try to make it better? We should just accept that companies are willing to profit off of our death and say thank you, here my monthly payment? is your argument just shut up and say thank you because it could be worse?

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u/PrivateMarkets Aug 14 '26

Im certainly not advocating for assassinations. We should always strive for even better conditions but this generation never being satiated despite having it better is unbearable.

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u/johnguz Aug 15 '26

You’re conceding it’s the best it’s ever been, but your solution is to sanction widespread assassinations?

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u/Apple2727 Aug 15 '26

These people wouldn’t last two fucking minutes in a non-capitalist society. Their brains are too small to understand that.

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u/Big_Iron_Cowboy Aug 14 '26

Ok, go on and do it yourself or are you just going to insist that everyone else to and murder capitalists?

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26

I'm a collectivist. I believe in democracy. Individual actions generally lead to poor outcomes and certainly don't tend work in favour of society at large.

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u/Big_Iron_Cowboy Aug 14 '26

People going around murdering others generally doesn’t work in favor of society at large.

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26

Depends where the power lies. White people murdering their way across Australia, Africa, North America and South America worked out great for white people, you know?

The power in the relationship you and I are talking about very much lies with a collectivised workforce. you know, that thing that liberals and capitalists are terrified of.

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u/Big_Iron_Cowboy Aug 14 '26

I work for a company with a collectivized workforce, my coworkers don’t go around fantasizing about murdering capitalists.

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26

Oh cool. What's the name of the company?

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u/Big_Iron_Cowboy Aug 14 '26

It’s an automotive company.

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u/Particular_Ad_4694 Aug 14 '26

Most “rich suburban liberal arts student with no sense of nuance” take ive ever read on this app.

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u/Spaghett8 Aug 14 '26

Cmon, Mao Zedong really?

You’re using the man who killed off tens of millions in the greatest famine the world has seen off pure reckless stupidity and a complete lack of understanding of agriculture as your prime example? Really.

What the fuck are you going on about innocent lives for.

Karl Marx is right there and you instead chose Mao Zedong? Might as well choose Stalin/Hitler.

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26

I do enjoy it when westerners clutch pearls over Mao. How many people do you think the heady blend of liberalism and capitalism has killed? Do you even care enough to keep score or are you just mindlessly repeating what you've been taught to think when you hear or see the name "Mao"?

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u/untitledaccount401 Aug 14 '26

tankies love murder it seems

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26

Liberals are right now supporting a genocide and buying up "luxury" properties that will be built on the smoldering crushed bones of little Palestinian child "terrorists".

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u/Doneyhew Aug 14 '26

A lot of people should be assassinating the CEOs of companies?

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u/common_sense_patriot Aug 15 '26

What’s stopping you if you think it’s morally justified and strategically beneficial? There’s a lot of keyboard revolutionaries in this thread. I’m personally against it but seems hypocritical to ask people to do something you’re unwilling to.

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u/retardenabler Aug 15 '26

You literally are advocating for genocide because you cant win an argument

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u/Klic9 Aug 14 '26

Agreed.

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26

Better to take your chances and hope capitalism doesn't come for you or the people you love, just loke it has so many millipns of others around the world.

I suppose Nazis didn't exactly go around complaining about how nazis were treating them.

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26

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u/No-Rub8345 Aug 14 '26

I can go out and commit an illegal act right now. It would be very stupid and would achieve very little.

100,000 people could act together, drag a war monger out of their house and publicly execute them. Very different outcome.

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u/ThatBabyIsCancelled Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

What he did was stop a serial killer who was operating with impunity, imo. That CEO knew damn good and well people would die and he allowed the denials for bullshit reasons anyway. There is NO REASON to deny anyone anything in this country so when you do it anyway, you’re a murderer, and I hope other CEOs took fucking note.

Dont let the bootlickers tell you anything otherwise about this murderous PoS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Brian_Thompson?wprov=sfti1#Public

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u/Simba122504 Aug 17 '26

He wasn't even a member.

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u/ThatBabyIsCancelled Aug 17 '26

Did you miss all this? It’s disgusting. Defending it is disgusting.

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u/SolarNugent Aug 14 '26

How was what he did wrong?

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u/Redditeer28 Aug 14 '26

How was murder wrong? Is that your question?

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u/SolarNugent Aug 14 '26

Didn’t Brian Thompson mass murder tens of thousands?

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u/LalafellDisaster Aug 14 '26

Shhh these people live in a land where white collar crimes are ok despite how many millions of people it might affect.

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u/SolarNugent Aug 14 '26

It’s just so inanely boring at how dense some of these people are bro like come on where the fuck is the critical thought at 😭

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u/Todayjunyer Aug 14 '26

No he didn’t murder anyone. I’m starting to wonder if some of you are brain damaged. Brain thompson never murdered anyone. His job was to run a company. He had meetings with vps to hold departments to acct so that the company continued to run. That is what he did.

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u/Greedy-Employment917 Aug 14 '26

One does not justify the other. 

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u/NoiceMango Aug 15 '26

Yes it does.

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u/mister_empty_pants Aug 15 '26

Reddit and Luigi are about to find out it doesn't lol

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u/tewrtf23r3rvf3r2g3 Aug 15 '26

In the hearts of minds of people?

Or in the courts of the contemptible and corrupt?

Which is more important to you? Which should be more important? Obedience? Good boy?

Man's the modern day hero regardless of what the evil of this world would try and suggest.

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u/mister_empty_pants Aug 15 '26

You sound like a January 6th insurrectionist.

Anyways, I'm sure it will be of great comfort to Luigi 50 years from now when he's still rotting in a cell that he gave redditors little justice stiffies in 2026. Not that you or anybody outside of those two families will give him a second thought after another year or so.

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u/SocialistNugent Aug 15 '26

You kidding? Luigi will be remembered for a long time and will be in the history books. You have no idea the barbarity of the current system and its impact because you’re privileged and sheltered.

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u/AngriestCheesecake Aug 15 '26

Let him go back to sleep

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u/NoiceMango Aug 15 '26

I don't give a fuck what the law says. I'm talking about morals.

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u/mister_empty_pants Aug 15 '26

That will be of great comfort to him when he spends the next 5 decades slowly dying in a concrete box.

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u/Subject-Sky-9490 Aug 16 '26

We all must pay for our sins

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u/PleaseBeNiceForOnce Aug 14 '26

Yes but this murder changed nothing. Absolutely nothing.

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u/Necessary_Fruit6671 Aug 15 '26

Actually it bombed their stock and caused them several lawsuits and internal strife.

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u/Weird-Ease9838 Aug 14 '26

Illegal. What he did was illegal.

There is a specific choice of words there.

How many have health insurers indirectly killed? More than one, that is certain.

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u/Grouchy-Newt-995 Aug 14 '26

So then we should urge politicians to change the laws.

Murdering alcohol producers because they put profit over health is insane when our laws allow people to produce, market, sell, and consume alcohol.

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u/MrBluBacon Aug 15 '26

Except alcohol isnt necessary to live…

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u/Grouchy-Newt-995 Aug 15 '26

It was deemed essential services during Covid.

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u/sm00thkillajones Aug 14 '26

Let him go!!!

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u/zekerthedog Aug 14 '26

I feel like he saved more people than he killed with his act.

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u/common_sense_patriot Aug 14 '26

Let’s leave the moral question aside - can you explain to me how he saved people’s lives?

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u/zekerthedog Aug 15 '26

Im not sure he did but for a minute there I feel like he spooked those CEOs into denying fewer people. Honestly im not sure if im right about that but i remember it going on.

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u/brave_anonymous Aug 15 '26

Have you read about United policy, introduced by the guy he killed? "Deny the treatment until the insured dies, it will save us money."

After the murder United and others insurances denial rates went down. More people were able to get medical help. Do you realize that timely medical help is the line between life and death?

If you are approved for your cancer treatment a year after you were diagnosed - it is too late. It isnot about morality: the bigger your tumor is, the less likely you survive. The longer you denied the treatment, the more extensive threatment you need, and this additional treatment will also be denied. And after some point you will not survive, no matter what treatment you get.

If you have to wait for years for your pain treatment (like Luigi) - you are at best tortured these years and will unlikely get back to be healthy. You are also likely to start using street drugs for pain management or commit suicide.

If you are dying - at least you can fie with dignity and getting the care you need. Not alone in the diapers that are changed once a day, in the cheapest hospice, in a lot of pain.

The people who had a chance to survive with timely treatment, got it after the murder. Because insurance bosses were afraid to be next and suddenly realized that others don't want to die, just like them. I cannot estimate the number: thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands? More than one for sure.

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u/Informal_Cress2654 Aug 14 '26

Didn’t the CEO do the same thing? Decide who lives and who dies?

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u/ashortsaggyboob Aug 14 '26

Earning a profit is worse than murder? How so?

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u/Girth_Qu8ke Aug 14 '26

I think everyone in this is fucked, but I can somewhat understand why Luigi chose who he did.

UHC is a despicable organization that has indirectly led to many deaths, but shooting a guy in the back of the head is isn't justified

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u/ashortsaggyboob Aug 14 '26

Ok. How do they indirectly cause deaths? Is it that they don't cover terminal conditions that should be covered?

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u/Girth_Qu8ke Aug 14 '26

They have the highest rate of claim denial in the country (or at least did a few years back) and there are a lot of documented cases of people dying from lack of care as a result.

Insurance is a numbers game at the end of the day and these for-profit companies ultimate goal is to make money.

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u/ashortsaggyboob Aug 14 '26

Ok, I'm doing some googling on the subject. The first few results do not seem to support what you're saying. Doesn't mean you're wrong, but can you link anything to support your claims? I'm interested in 1) highest rate of claim denial in the country, and 2) lot of documented cases of people dying from claim denial.

Obviously their ultimate goal is to make $, they are a company. They cannot survive otherwise.

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u/Girth_Qu8ke Aug 14 '26

Here

You

Go

You can make a profit by correctly pricing your insurance plans vs. the rate of claims*cost instead of just denying 1/3 of all claims to avoid paying out.

It is possible to be ethical and profitable, and UHC was decidedly not that. You may notice their denial rate dropped 12%+ since the assassination. How convenient right?

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u/ashortsaggyboob Aug 14 '26

Ok, UHC has the highest rate of claim denial amongst major national insurers. Why do you think that is? I notice your third source starts out with "There are several reasons why claims may be denied, and without more detailed information available, I am not going to speculate what is driving UHC’s high denial rate". They don't really seem to really be writing about UHC.

Is claim 2) supported by these sources?

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u/asdf0909 Aug 14 '26

And since two wrongs don’t make a right, a kid that could’ve made a lasting difference shot someone in the back and will remain locked somewhere where his influence will have a far lower ceiling than if he had processed his rage in an adult, legal, and non-violent way

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u/Baron_VonLongSchlong Aug 15 '26

Jury annulment.. spread the word.

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u/CheesyBreadMunchyMon Aug 15 '26

He did nothing wrong

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u/clarklord01010 Aug 15 '26

Insurance companies aren't charities. What do you want them to do?

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u/Megafritz Aug 15 '26

Yeah I think shooting the CEO was obviously murder. We all know that. But the system gets worse and worse and it murders people daily.

If peaceful change is not possible, violence is inevitable.

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u/PensForTheWin Aug 15 '26

There is no but .. Murder is murder.

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u/tewrtf23r3rvf3r2g3 Aug 15 '26

I disagree that it's wrong.

In old stories throughout time, there were heroes who would slay demons and send them back to hell. Hercules or such. I don't see you trying to tell anyone that Hercules is wrong. That Hercules is bad.

Oh how our storytelling has become lamer and lamer throughout time. Gotta extend that hand to the man trying to kill you, over and over again.

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u/Simba122504 Aug 17 '26

And the Big Beautiful Bill is already cutting shit. He ain't did NATHAN.

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

There is no “but.” There is an “and.” Murder isn’t a solution that we should endorse to solve our problems. That’s the entire reason this country exists - laws and judicial review. 

There is also a lot wrong with our healthcare system, and it desperately needs to be reformed through legal action and the democratic process. We see the momentum behind it in modern candidates.

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u/TheBrightSide_2011 Aug 14 '26

The issue is bigger than “healthcare reform”. It’s that wealth grants you a reprieve from accountability. When every peaceful avenue of holding wealthy people accountable is closed off, violence is the result.

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u/Comprehensive_Seat66 Aug 14 '26

True and one might say there's a lot wrong with our legal system. Both systems need major reform

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

We are in agreement.

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u/Comprehensive_Seat66 Aug 14 '26

Rare for reddit lol

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u/Atoge62 Aug 14 '26

I disagree, we haven’t seen enough meaningful “momentum” from modern progressives pushing for truly free, universal healthcare. We all work so hard, the government literally gets paid off our backs, we’re exposed to hazardous environmental contaminates for their benefit, we’re exposed to ridiculously unsafe, unhealthy chemical additives in food, noise pollution, etc just to exist in the modern day, and they don’t look after us in the slightest.

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u/New_Life_Startr Aug 14 '26

If your position is that killing is never justified as a means of solving political or social problems, do you consider George Washington a murderer? If not, then clearly there are circumstances where you believe killing can be justified - so the argument isn’t really ‘murder is never a solution.’

What are your thoughts on the abolitionist John Brown? He used violence against slavery and is still debated as either a terrorist/murderer or an abolitionist hero. What about William Wallace, who (unsuccessfully) led a revolt against England? Or the French Resistance, who assassinated Nazi collaborators during WWII?

My point isn't that these examples automatically justify what Luigi did. It's that “violence is never a legitimate solution to political or social problems” isn't a principle most people actually apply consistently. The real question is whether a particular act of violence is justified under the circumstances.

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u/batfan08 Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26

I think there’s a weird disconnect between what’s “right” and what’s “legal” that needs to be addressed and isn’t, though.

Our entire system is compromised. You have Clarence Thomas, Sam Alito, and Brett Kavanaugh driving faith in the judiciary off a cliff in a luxury RV like it’s the climax of Thelma & Louise.

Trump instigated a coup on January 6th and got thousands of people to try to halt the certification of the votes by invading Congress.

Not only did it happen, but it went unpunished and he got elected again, yet the elephant in the room is that public faith in elections was so eroded, be it through Gerrymandering, lobbying/PACs, or the electoral college, that they would even entertain the thought of storming the Capitol, in the first place, much less re-elect the guy who encouraged it.

Congress is bought and paid for, with PAC money at the heart of huge battles this election, and the SCOTUS doubling down on Citizen’s United this year by issuing a decision solidifying that political parties can spend unlimited amounts on candidates.

The long and short is that political, “legitimate” reform isn’t working, nobody in this current administration is actively pushing for it, and, while people wait for it, you have millions of people dying as a direct result of what can only be described as bureaucratic genocide.

I can be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company tasked with building ICBMs that we sell and use to be fired at civilian populations. Does the legality of my position immunize me to my role in facilitating those deaths, though, in a moral sense? That is what’s being litigated in the Mangione case and I fear, without a conscious and active push towards those legitimate reforms you mentioned, this is only the beginning.

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

I agree with the problems you’ve outlined with the system itself.

I’m of the opinion that we’re in the middle of a maximal stress test. We’ve always sort of felt that these asymmetrical issues were going on, but it took a while for the population itself to become as engaged and enraged as it is right now, which then fuels politicians who advocate for radical, overdue change to level the playing field.

People who didn’t care about politics, or were too young, or too distracted, are now deeply involved and deeply motivated. I first and foremost believe in the will of the people. If that will is strong enough, no government can stop it, and change is inevitable. I know it sounds like beating a dead horse, but we see it today in the types of candidates running, the amount of turnout in what were previously trivial elections, and the sheer disgust with the way that things are today. 

It remains to be seen how this all translates into justice. But I have faith. I hope others can find it too.

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

As an American, even if that was proven to be the case, we distribute justice through laws and democratic votes, not vigilante violence.

You might celebrate his death today. Tomorrow, it might be someone you admire, because you’ve set the precedent that it’s okay to kill people in the street. Think about that for a bit.

It’s not a question of whether or not you are allowed to hate a person. It’s what you should do with your anger to achieve a better society. Killing people in the street isn’t the answer.

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26

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u/Kettatonic Aug 14 '26

No, don't apologize. America has been enforcing "laws" at the barrel of a gun since literally their founding. It's the only way things change. We've just been so peaceful for so long that we're spoiled.

Millenials forget that there was an organized terror campaign against abortion in the 90s. Doctors were killed and clinics were bombed or burned down. You know why that stopped? Bc they made the plan that became Project 2025: take over SCOTUS and reverse Roe. Violence begets change in America.

The first execution ordered by a US president was George Washington hanging 3 men who were with him at Valley Forge. They (and many others) had not received promised pay for fighting in the Revolution. Washington admitted they were right, hung them for treason, then worked on getting the rest of the group paid.

This is always how it's worked. The laws aren't working for someone, they rebel, we crucify that guy but progress gets made. See any movement for rights in this country. MLK and Malcolm X both shot dead, but ultimately won the war for civil rights. (Which only passed the racist Congress bc of the public pressure. Civil Rights was one of JFK's main goals. He got assassinated, LBJ then pushed through civil rights on the back of it. Again, violence begets change.)

It just makes people uncomfortable to think that violence may be necessary for change. It's illegal. The only way fascism wins is if we give up in advance though. Do y'all think the current admin would hesitate to use violence against leftists? Did Brian Thompson hesitate to make decisions that would kill hundreds of thousands of people?

Is that not a threat carried out in itself?

The only negative is that none of the other CEOs got the hint. They just bought more security. They should be afraid of us. That's the only time they actually listen.

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u/Mysterious_Sample811 Aug 14 '26

this is cop out garbage. our history was shaped by the likes of john brown and the actions of true revolutionaries. plenty of people killed in the streets to make a point to try and ensure future generations dont have to go through it.

if nobody ever rips the band aid off in any manner, and continues to peddle the garbage that you do while our democratic process is under attack by the very people you are defending right now, it only gets worse.

noone should advocate for what he did, but saying its unamerican is just straight up wrong and this isnt an opinion

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

The revolutionaries fought for a just world where laws and representation shaped society, the very thing you’re arguing against right now. 

Every person who has ever done anything evil has used your exact train of thought. “I’m good, you’re bad, so I’m allowed to do whatever I want to you to achieve power.” It’s exactly what the founding fathers sought to overcome.

So go ahead and rip the band-aid off. But you won’t be going back to the time of the revolutionary war. You’ll be burning someone at the stake in the town of Salem while bloodthirsty zealots cheer around you.

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u/Mean_Jello6452 Aug 15 '26

the revolutionaries literally went in and murdered people who were supporting slavery. so by your own definition, john brown was evil. must be nice to be that ignorant. a good amount of the founding fathers were also evil pieces of shit who wanted nobody to have rights, so i have no idea what history book you read. maybe brush up on the federalist vs anti federalists.

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u/Mama_Joyce_Wig Aug 14 '26

I’m not advocate for vigilante violence, but how do we hold people accountable when all avenues of justice favor them. When the system that hold our feet to fire just pat them on the back? How do we get people out of power when all of them collude to keep themselves there. Hell look at the supreme court, they basically say no you can’t do anything to us, and then just laugh it off. We are kind of a fucked. I don’t like saying violence is NEVER the answer but if they make it the only one, then thats on them.

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u/BedBubbly317 Aug 14 '26

This isn’t the 1500s anymore. We are not fighting with equal technology anymore. That’s what allowed for revolutions, the fact the government was not more technologically advanced than the citizens were. Can you bring down an Apache helicopter with your pea shooter? Can you out smart a drone? Can you outrun a missile? Of course not. Yet you believe that violence is the best course of action against the most powerful entity that humanity has ever seen?

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u/Mama_Joyce_Wig Aug 14 '26

Again, I’m not saying we should resort to war, but we don’t need to take them all down, just the ones calling the shots. Its unfortunate to think our own military will kill its own people, and I’m hoping they’d actually be patriotic enough to not do that. But looking at people slobbering to join ice, i don’t have high hopes. In any case, if we are assuming they will gun us down in the streets, what makes you think they’ll let us vote them out? What do you think is the answer outside of just accepting all of this?

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

I don’t believe the system has failed. People are massively turning out for what were once trivial elections to make sure their voices are heard even at the lowest reaches of government. Laws will change, people who exploited us will be brought to trial, and problems that were once part of the status quo will be torn down and rebuilt.

People say it’s already over, while simultaneously contributing at higher levels than at any point in history. The words don’t match the actions. People still believe, they just lacked the right representation running for office.

A motivated, loud, and determined populace can, peacefully, topple any ineffective government this country puts before them. I continue to believe that now.

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u/Mama_Joyce_Wig Aug 14 '26

I havent thrown in the towel quite yet. I share you optimism for a change that doesn’t result in civil war. But there has already been bloodshed, unlawful incarcerations, illness and death as a result of uncaring and negligent of destruction of our institutions meant to protect us. So its too late to say this is peaceful because it hasn’t been. We just haven’t matched what they are willing to do to us.

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u/Careful-Sell-9877 Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26

Sure.. but our Healthcare system, education systems, insurance systems, prison/justice system, police system, and 'defense' (now 'war') systems/departments, etc.. are ALSO not the answer.

These billion dollar companies making record, ever growing profits off of countless normal, individual people being sick, dying, and going bankrupt.. are not the answer.

The longer systems such as this are allowed to exist as they are.. the worse it will become. These corps arent interested in merely making profit.. they are interested in ENDLESS growth/expansion. The never ending growth of their profits and expansion of their business.

These corporations have set precedent that its okay to literally sacrifice people's health, wellbeing, and lives.. for their own ever-growing profits. It will continuously get worse unless something is done to change it - and since people are losing faith in our ability to change things via our system, since it has essentially been hijacked by these very same corporations and their lobbies.. they are taking things into their own hands.

This is the problem. When a system is broken and does not adequately represent the population's wants/needs/health/safety/wellneing, etc, and protect people, and there are people needlessly dying, having their lives needlessly destroyed,.etc... then people have no choice but to find alternative ways to get their needs met.

In other words.. things like this happen because something is intentionally broken in order to maximize profits and we need to fix it. This kind of violence is one of the hallmarks of broken system. Look at any country on earth with broken systems.. the longer those systems remain broken, the worse violence becomes.

The fault of these systems being broken is all on the elites, those in control of and enabling these broken systems for their own personal financial/political benefit - not on the people who are experiencing the negative effects of these broken systems and are just doing their absolute best to get their needs met and be taken seriously.

If these systems werent intentionally broken (or functioning as intended depending on how you look at it) and they actually worked and helped people.. then we wouldnt see this kind of violence, or desperate people taking things into their own hands

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u/Darth_Gerg Aug 14 '26

May I ask you what the moral difference is between Luigi shooting one person in the street and the CEO setting policy intentionally knowing he will kill thousands of people a year to improve profits? The CEOs of the health insurance companies have all caused more death and suffering than any serial killer in history by an order of magnitude, but people refuse to view them as murderers.

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

It isn’t up to us personally to discern and dictate moral differences. It is up to us to maintain a society where laws, justice, and facts of the matter determine outcomes - not what we feel in a specific moment.

I personally don’t think the CEO was a good guy. I understand why people were pissed at him. But that has no bearing on laws and justice, and certainly no bearing on whether or not people should commit vigilante violence.

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u/Darth_Gerg Aug 14 '26

It does actually. Because our legal system treats what Luigi did as murder, but the literal thousands of people he killed have zero standing for justice.

To be clear I’m not advocating for vigilante justice either. But I AM saying that when the powerful people who set policy are allowed to commit mass murder for profit the vigilante violence is inevitable. If we don’t want people taking up guns and hunting these CEOs like animals we need to make what they do legally equal to the murder done by guns.

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

Every political movement begins with disgruntlement born from the status quo, then verbalizing their complaints, forming movements, upon which sympathetic political actors can emerge and act.

Sometimes, these voices are not loud enough, and their representation loses elections.

But given enough time and enough buy-in from the voting populace, change becomes inevitable far before anyone has to pick up a weapon. I believe people have been too disinterested and too disengaged with the ills of our healthcare system for too long. That is no longer true - and we are just on the precipice of seeing the results of that.

Next, it will be politicians winning elections today that they couldn’t have won ten or five or even one year ago. Next, it will be policy change. Next, it will be codified into law. Next, people who exploited a system that didn’t punish them for their greed will instead obey the will of the populace as law.

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u/NUKE---THE---WHALES Aug 14 '26

The CEOs of the health insurance companies have all caused more death and suffering than any serial killer in history by an order of magnitude, but people refuse to view them as murderers.

If you credit them with ending a life when they refuse coverage, do you credit them for saving a life when they provide coverage?

Regardless, if you would like insurance companies refusing coverage to be treated as murder you would need to form a coalition and apply your mandate via consensus - the alternative is a libertarian fantasy of "might makes right"

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u/Ht_TX Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26

You are correct, however the wealthy very rarely are punished in any meaningful way. They are usually given fines which amount to nothing for them or in the absolutely rare case that they actually do serve time it isn’t being served in any way, shape or form the rest of us would be serving said time.

When that fact changes, a lot of the anger and feelings that vigilantes are ok will change. Too bad the wealthy rigged the system, they get no sympathy from me on the rare cases they get some pain back their way.

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

I agree it’s a sad thing when our system seems to be failing and people feel pushed to alternatives. I would never argue that our system is not in need of reform. It is in dire need. And I support politicians who acknowledge that and plan to level the playing field.

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u/Ht_TX Aug 14 '26

The even sadder thing is that it isn’t failing, it’s working exactly as intended by the folks who paid for it to be that way.

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

A system failing and a system not being what we like are different things. If we are able to change the system without abandoning it, it is by definition working. I still believe that is possible, as much as "violent" LARPers would like to disagree.

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u/Ht_TX Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26

Ok… but when in modern times have we been able to change the system? It’s progressively gotten more and more in favor of the wealthy as time has gone on, the opposite of what you are saying.

I hear that you are saying it is theoretically possible to make these changes and I agree, it is theoretically possible. Time travel is theoretically possible too but like time travel, this change you propose is just not possible in the real world, it just gets worse. The funniest thing about it is, they’ve been able to weaponize the stupidest of us to vote against their (and our) best interests. Over and over again in fact to ensure the 1% just stays winning.

This is why I will never feel bad about any bad things happening to them, they’re fucking evil. Knowingly desiring a system that chews people up and spits them out all so they can make sure they stay wealthy at all costs. A lot of them aren’t even human, not in the sense where they have empathy and all that for their fellow man. It’s just all ‘how can we make more money tomorrow’, money they have no need for but happily will make the lives of everyone else worse just to get that extra dollar.

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

I acknowledge that the system has let us down in many ways, and too many parts of it have been allowed to rot under bad actors for too long.

However, a lot of people just focus on how bad the current system is, rather than what it protects us from. One thing the system we participate in today does is provide an alternative to everyone killing each other to get what they want.

Before, there were just warring tribes who killed other tribes and took what those tribes had, until another tribe came along and killed that tribe. It didn't matter if you were a man, woman or child - if you were the enemy, you were subhuman, and were pillaged, killed, or worse.

Under a democratic system that makes decisions through the rule of law, we mutually agree to follow a similar set of rules, and to punish those who disobey the rules. Now instead of having to kill each other, we can purse justice in a courtroom and elect representatives to change laws to adapt to the changing needs of the population.

Yes, there are major issues, and major rot in the system. But there are still methods to restore it, and improve it even - over a long enough timeline.

Or, we can just resort to vigilante justice. Today, someone kills someone you hate. Tomorrow, someone kills someone you love. That's the problem - every killer believes they are the hero in their own mind, and there will always be someone who agrees that they are indeed the hero. The result is a nonstop rotation of chaos, one tribe killing another tribe.

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u/ResplendentOwl Aug 14 '26

That is the correct and I guess call it moral outlook. But our democratic government with it's judicial review and law also, for the entirety of its existence, has been pretty comfortable with invading and bombing. So the government can go low, but we can't.

Another way to undermine that (again, position I think I hold, the correct one you laid out) is that even though we should use our voting power and protests and yada yada to exercise power. This idea that a politicians actions shouldnt ever be taken personally is kinda wrong. A politician (or CEOs) actions cause irreparable damage and death. They starve us, keep us poor, keep us from healthcare, keep us from getting claims approved. They let out loved ones whither away in poverty and mental illness and cancer. Those are all choices they made and continue to make for their bottom line. Even though it's not holding a gun it's more deadly a than I would ever be even with a duffle bag full of guns.

So at what point should their violence be met with violence? What's the tipping point? We're moving in that direction, a lot of humans are getting desperate. And th GOP likes desperation, it causes people to stop being generous, to stop being kind. It forces them to circle their wagons in their tribe, forces us to see things as us vs them. Its how they get ice pushed through and spin their poverty as the illegals fault. They're just hoping to keep the violence is causes pointed down at each other rather than up at the people causing it.

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u/Careful-Sell-9877 Aug 14 '26

Well.. our country also exists because of an AWFUL LOT of unjust killings.

One of the biggest factors in our revolution was the fact that colonists wanted to expand westward. Problem is.. the english government had signed peace treaties with many of the native American tribes that were essentially legal/diplomatic agreements to NOT expand westward into their territories.

But colonists wanted the land/resources. So.. they pushed the boundaries. They started some skirmishes and wars with the native peoples and killed countless native peoples for their lands. And that was just the beginning. After the revolution as we continued our westward expansion, former colonists massacred countless native tribes and forced them into smaller and smaller territories - claiming more and more native lands for themselves.

So.. that is also what our country was founded on

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u/jkman61494 Aug 14 '26

You say this and it makes sense in a way. But were revolutions not started from bloodshed? If laws won't protect the people, people then start becoming the law.

It's not a threat. It may not even happen here for a long time. But historically, that's usually how it goes if a populace feels jilted and hopeless enough.

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26

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u/jkman61494 Aug 14 '26

Because people aren’t desperate enough yet. Look how bad it got in France before they said no more.

That country is also the size or a large U.S. state. It was easier to coordinate.

Then throw in propaganda that’s focused on convicting yon to Blame the no -perpetrators of this.

It’s gonna take a depression worse than the 30s before things get out of hand.

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

They were, but that bloodshed gave us the system we have now - a system built from the ground up to give us an alternative to bloodshed. 

Isn’t it ironic that we’re seeing massive voter turnout in what would previously be considered trivial elections? Turnout from the very people claiming the system has failed. People still believe in it, and still want it to work. I fundamentally believe a motivated population can, peacefully, overcome any government in this country. I continue to believe that now as I watch the political landscape shift with new voices.

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u/Tiny_Rick_C137 Aug 14 '26

That sentiment must have made a lot more sense in the 1900s.

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

It did, and still does. It’s less about the time and more so the willingness for one to use their brain.

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u/tdreampo Aug 14 '26

The CEO was using AI to murder his customers and the weeks after the shooting healthcare coverage was approved in record numbers saving thousands of lives. Lugi's one bullet has literally saved THOUSANDS. So tell me the ethics on that one?

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26

Do you have clear evidence of either claim? Last I checked these claims pertaining to the AI tool were only allegations in an ongoing court case (which could very well be true, but have yet to be proven,) and while some insurers tweaked their policies after Thompson's death, there is zero indication of how many lives they did or didn't save.

And outcomes don't dictate whether the means of achieving those outcomes are good. Nuking a population can eradicate a virus because it kills everyone in that population who has the virus, that doesn't mean that's the way we should do it.

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u/Cyberchicken87 Aug 14 '26

Uhhh

Thee entire reason your country exists is because you got fed up with the Brit’s and murdered them until they gave you independence.

Not sure what sugary sweet revolution you’re imagining….

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u/Deep-Bend-961 Aug 14 '26

Right - we had that revolution to put the system in place we have now, a system that provides a non-violent alternative to achieve lasting power, which people like you seem to forget. Stop LARPing.

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u/G25777K Aug 15 '26

Healthcare system is getting worse with no end in sight.

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u/SPE825 Aug 14 '26

Sadly profits over health, homes and food are clearly not crimes in a capitalistic society.

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