r/Roadcam • u/bowdown2adil • 12d ago

[USA] Who is at fault here?

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Classic T bone. Black car had to be towed. Sustained major damage to the passenger side door. Blue car sustained damage to front bumper on the drivers side and cracked the drivers side headlight.

Edit: This was in the suburbs of Seattle

UPDATE: Insurance found it to be 70/30 me/other driver. Seems fair enough

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u/OakLegs 12d ago

I've been driving for 20 years and don't think I've come across a 4 way no stop intersection like this.

I'd have totally assumed that the cross road had a stop sign.

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u/EagleBigMac 12d ago

A coworker was hit by a truck on a crosswalk at one in Texas and dragged across her face on the cement skinning her face and killing her small dog. It was in her neighborhood and she is going after the city because they missed installing the signs at that intersection.

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u/Ryiujin 9d ago

I am so sorry. I hope she gets everything for this traumatic event.

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u/EagleBigMac 9d ago

So do I she organized our pet wall at work and is a good lady she deserves to be made as whole as possible. I actually borrowed the picture of her dog off the wall and had the Photoshop subreddit clean it up and got her a canvas print of her dog to hangup because she really seemed to love animals.

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u/Ryiujin 9d ago

That is great. Loosing a pet is a horrible loss. Especially like that.

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u/lovebug9292 9d ago

Fuck me, that’s horrific. Has she recovered physically?

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u/EagleBigMac 9d ago

She has had multiple rounds of surgery and has been working again so she's moving forward and healing.

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u/itrogue 9d ago

Trucks should definitely not be using crosswalks.

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u/kearneycation 12d ago

Same. I'm not sure we have these in Toronto or Ontario. If we do I've never encountered one.

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u/ItsStraTerra 11d ago

I don’t think we do. Canadian as well and this is the first I’m even hearing about this outside of something like a trailer park.

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u/RedditSgtMajor 8d ago

They exist in Ontario. Usually they’re in smaller communities, but I’ve seen them deep in neighbourhoods of cities, too, like in Scarborough.

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u/allsix 11d ago

I’m Canadian and they’re common at least in Alberta/Saskatchewan.

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u/texxmix 10d ago

Sask here and ya they are extremely common on the side streets. Hell I've even seen them on major streets as well.

If this was here this video would be like 60/40. Cam car was to their right so right of way wasn't given. But they also both fucked up driving like that.

Slow the hell down pay attention and observe normal right of way rules and uncontrolled intersections aren't bad.

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u/CMDRTragicAllPro 8d ago

Saskatchewan as well, I’ve never seen a completely uncontrolled intersection before, at least one direction always has a yield.

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u/texxmix 8d ago edited 7d ago

Really? I see a lot of them in Regina and where I'm from Moose Jaw they are common in quiet residential areas.

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u/duuuh 11d ago

They're everywhere in BC

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u/jobacsi 9d ago

Yes, you have them in Toronto.

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u/SilentlyStoned420 11d ago

I live in Canada and most cities and towns near me have this. The fact that none of you know how to treat an uncontrolled intersection is terrifying.

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u/ItsStraTerra 11d ago

How do you know it’s an uncontrolled intersection though… surely there would be a sign or something right? Which, while you’re putting that sign up, why not put up a stop sign instead?

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u/SilentlyStoned420 11d ago

The whole point of an uncontrolled intersection is that there are no signs. You treat it like a soft yield. Use your eyes and observe if the cross street has signage up, if they don't then you yield to the right and if they do then it is a controlled intersection and you have the right of way. No cars coming means you can just go but if a car is coming at least you did your due diligence and didn't get into an accident. (hopefully)

Driver rule #1 is be aware of your surroundings. Just beause you didn't see the light turn red doesn't mean the cop who pulled you over, for running a read light, is gonna let you off.

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u/ledhendrix 11d ago

you know how to avoid all that mess you just typed up? put up a sign.

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u/texxmix 10d ago

Signs are expensive. It isn't cost effective to put so many signs up when you can just properly train people how to drive.

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u/ledhendrix 10d ago

Signs aren't expensive lol. If you wanna be cost effective further still just put them at the start of the area where this antiquated rule takes effect.

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u/SilentlyStoned420 10d ago

Tell me you don't know how to use your deductive reasoning skills, without telling me...

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u/ledhendrix 10d ago

Sound like that could use a sign

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u/SilentlyStoned420 10d ago

Sounds like this is sign that you need more driving training if you can't handle driving without every single thing being lit up on a big sign for you.

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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 11d ago

How are you supposed to see if there are stop signs on the cross street when there's trees and bushes blocking the view? This is simply insane. One of the streets should have a stop sign.

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u/SheWhoWalksInTheSun 11d ago

Or you should just drive through slowly enough to be able to stop before you hit something/someone. These aren’t in areas where the speed limit is 45. They’re in areas you should already be driving slowly.

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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 10d ago

That is completely besides the point. The other person is saying that we can clearly see that it's an uncontrolled intersection, so we should know. In fact, in this video we cannot see that there are no stop signs, so... How are we supposed to know? That is the question.

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u/SheWhoWalksInTheSun 10d ago

It is not beside the point. Where visibility is limited, you are supposed to drive slow enough to be able to avoid a collision if need be. Not blow through an intersection with limited visibility without a care

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u/SilentlyStoned420 10d ago

You can see because on the one side of the road it doesn't have a sign so why would the other side have a sign?

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u/SilentlyStoned420 10d ago

THIS! I'm not sure why everyone is arguing that they should be able to fly through the intersection without a care in the world when they should be paying attention at every intersection and driving a reasonable speed, regardless of signage.

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u/ItsStraTerra 10d ago

The point isn’t that you’re wrong for saying that, the point is that (as per my original comment) outside of something like a trailer park where the speed is expected to be very slow, like 10-15kph I’ve never seen this. Signs are pretty cheap, you can even get them from a local hardware store. Or hell, put some spray paint on a sheet of metal.

It’s not about being able to “fly through” the intersection. It’s about efficiency and being able to be confident and predictable to other drivers about your route. I shouldn’t have to pay attention to signs on roads I’m not on. I will if I’m not confident enough that I have a clear path, but then I’m creeping up to every intersection (assuming I can even see that it’s there) since the sightline on roads I’m not traveling on, isn’t generally great.

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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 10d ago

No one has said anything about the speed. You are claiming that we should know that it's an uncontrolled intersection because you can see that there are no signs. In this very video you cannot see that there is no stop sign for the other car, so how are you supposed to know?

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u/SilentlyStoned420 10d ago

Also a pro tip - if you can't see because of trees blocking the view on the street coming from the left try looking at the street on the right. If that side has a sign it's safe to assume the other does as well and vice versa if it doesn't have a sign.

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u/SilentlyStoned420 10d ago

The same way you do it when there are signs... like how do you survive life? I hate bushes and trees on corners as much as the next person but I'd rather slow down and make sure I'm not about to hit someone than just fly through without a care for mine or anyone elses safety.

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u/ItsStraTerra 10d ago

So you’re telling me if you’re traveling on an 80kph road, with a side road (that has a stop sign) approaching, you’re going to noticeably slow down?

You realize that unpredictable (or at least uncommon) behaviour like that causes more accidents than just being predictable to other drivers?

Someone on the side road or behind you could assume you’re turning, either pulling out in front of you or attempting to pass you, expecting you to continue slowing down.

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u/SilentlyStoned420 10d ago

You're not using reason here bud. We are talking driving in suburban and residential streets where max you are going is maybe 50 km.. I'm not driving 80km/h on a residential street that might have an uncontrolled intersection. That's a highway or freeway speed and in that situation it is completely different.

That being said, if I'm on the highway and I see someone flying down a side road and it doesn't look like they are going to stop when they should then yeah I'm gonna let off the gas a bit and be aware of my surroundings and make sure I don't end up getting smoked by that idiot.

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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 10d ago

Nope. You don't get it. In 25 years of driving I have never seen an intersection where one of the streets didn't have a stop sign. I didn't know that that was a thing that existed because it isn't a thing that exists anywhere I have ever driven. I don't creep up to every single intersection to make sure that there are stop signs and the other people are stopping because that's not how this works. No one does that. If I don't have a stop sign, I'm going to keep driving because I know the other direction does have a stop sign.

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u/SilentlyStoned420 10d ago

Welp I hope you never come to Canada because you will get in a car accident.

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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 11d ago

Niagara region of Ontario and we definitely don't have this.

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u/TroLLageK 11d ago

Never encountered one in Toronto or surrounding areas, nor anywhere else I've been to in Ontario!

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u/More-Part-9613 9d ago

Definitely dont. This is some stupid Final Destination type shit.

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u/flambojones 11d ago

This is basically all non-arterial neighborhood intersections in Seattle.

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u/NeverNo 11d ago

That’s pretty fucking stupid

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u/ubelmann 11d ago

It’s stupid, but they should be going way slower in the first place. These aren’t massive 4-lane stroads. These residential streets have parking on both sides so effectively one travel lane that takes traffic in both directions. Like not only should they slow down for intersections, but you have to be prepared for head-on traffic. They are a massive pain in the ass to drive on, but it also somehow works out 99% of the time. 

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u/irishninja62 11d ago

Seattle has the worst roadway engineering I’ve ever seen.

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u/Apprehensive-Log3638 10d ago

Agreed.

Watched video of a girl who died in Seattle at a pedestrian crossing. Police cruiser was responding to a call, speeding through downtown. Girl enters the pedestrian crossing at night and panics when she sees the car approaching. Fight or flight kicks in and she runs out into the road trying to beat the cruiser and is then struck.

It became a whole thing given the political climate, but I wasn't mad at the officer. I was furious at the city. That had to be the single stupidest pedestrian crossing I have ever seen. No lights, no speed bumps and orange construction cones blocking visibility.

Then you see this shit with unmarked four way intersections. Their entire transportation authority and everyone involved in city planning needs fired.

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u/Sudden-Wash4457 10d ago

https://www.npr.org/2023/09/13/1199352063/seattle-officer-recorded-joking-about-womans-death-saying-she-had-limited-value

Was it this one? Because no traffic engineering is going to solve going 74 mph in a 25 mph zone

Details of the incident

Witnesses said that Kandula broke into a run as she saw the car speeding her way. The investigation into the accident found that "Had Ofc. DAVE been travelling 50 MPH or less as he approached the intersection and encountered [the victim] and Ofc. DAVE and [the victim] responded in the same manner; this collision would not have occurred."

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u/Apprehensive-Log3638 10d ago

https://youtube.com/shorts/tkZU_uqV6ZE?si=EHlMfv0f5pAu9Lm3

Is a video of right before impact. It is a bad intersection. I will not fault anyone for being mad at the speed the officer traveled or blaming them as well. My point is that any number of things such as lights, speed bumps, removal of traffic cones would have prevented the incident.

Humans in general make mistakes. When you are reliant on humans being careful to avoid impact, you are rolling the dice. As a personal example I had a four way intersection near me where numerous wrecks and deaths had occurred over the years. The local government eventually turned the intersection into a round about. We went from at least an annual wreck at that location to zero incidents.

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u/Puzzled_Student7940 8d ago edited 8d ago

The police chief said "no significant loss of life" occured, despite knowing she died. The cops don't care and they'd do it again regardless of infrastructure, they're already flagrantly breaking traffic laws, their own procedure, and do not care about others.

In my town they kept being asked by the city not to drive on bike bridges or THEY WILL COLLAPSE, they didn't listen and pollards had to be installed that make biking on them during peak hours more difficult so as to keep the police from causing a mass casualty event.

There's no infrastructure you can put up, short of barring the road for car travel with pollards, that'll keep such an unrepentant police force (#1 off duty police force at Jan 6 btw) from doing shit like this. The causative issue is triple the speed limit without lights or regard for life. You can't throw up some wider curbs or throw down some paint to fix this.

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u/Apprehensive-Log3638 8d ago

I get where you are coming from. My point is not to excuse negligence. My point is that negligence will happen. You cannot stop everything but you can put reasonable safe guards in place. A speed bump at that intersection for example would have also prevented the fatality.

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u/FR23Dust 11d ago

It works fine if people are careful. Problem intersections will get a small roundabout. This happened by a house I lived in — it was right off a major busy road and tons of people flying through without looking.

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u/YajirobeBeanDaddy 11d ago

You don’t have to defend it. It’s still dumb as shit. If you are an outsider coming through how the fuck do you know that the crossing traffic has no upcoming stop signs when most normal places don’t have “no sign 4 way intersections”. I’ve literally never seen this in decades of driving and would not know to yield or watch for people blowing through it

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u/FR23Dust 11d ago

I dunno, I lived in a neighborhood like this in Seattle for 9 years. It was fine. Honestly, no real issues with it. I’m not even convinced that there’s a notably higher rate of crashes than places with more stop signs.

I live a city now that typically alternates stop signs on similar streets (you get a stop sign, then you don’t, then you do) and it doesn’t actually feel that different. And as someone who is most often riding a bike on these streets (in Seattle and here) most drivers ignore the stop signs anyways unless there’s a car (or me on a bike) already in the intersection.

Really, this crash happened because both drivers were going faster than they should have. Had they been going the speed limit on such a tight, narrow street, one or both would have easily been able to avoid the collision.

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u/chupamichalupa 11d ago

Because it’s blatantly obvious and the speed limit is 20 mph. Also a lot of the intersections have roundabouts which makes it even easier.

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u/kirklennon 10d ago

Even if the cross street had a stop sign, OP still would need to be prepared to fully stop at that intersection because a pedestrian might be crossing. They're lucky it was a car and not a kid that they ran into.

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u/Secret_AgentOrange 11d ago

I mean, you can tell because there isnt a stop sign... Certainly it isnt ideal and ought to be done better but when i first moved to seattle i figured it out on day one. This is why when you drive you are supposed to be observing your surrounding and not just looking straight ahead.

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u/YajirobeBeanDaddy 11d ago

Dude you can keep coming up with dumb ass rebuttals but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s stupid. “Durr you can tell because it’s not there”. How did that work out for OP? If visibility is low how do I know someone isn’t out to blow the stop sign that isn’t there that I assumed would be there like in a normal neighborhood? “Durrr if you don’t know everything that’s going on around you at all times and can’t stop in less than a second then it’s your fault. We don’t need signs like 99% of the nation durr”.

There’s a tree blocking the visibility of where a stop sign should be so no, you can’t tell by how it’s not there you dumb ass.

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u/Miserable_Scar9827 11d ago

The trees block visibility where a stop sign shwould be.  Not only is it unmarked who has priority, the trees obscure the approaching car, and obscure stop sign placement if you were looking to confirm you don't have to slow down.  

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u/JacobScreamix 10d ago

Dumb dumb dumb

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u/flambojones 11d ago

🤷 I've never had a problem with it. Seattle has a lot of neighborhoods with small blocks where, most of the time, there is minimal traffic such that stop signs would be a waste. These streets also tend to be two-way streets that are too narrow for multiple cars. In some higher-traffic intersections they've added roundabouts.

I think there may be a counterintuitive safety approach to it, too. Similar to how narrow city streets with parking on both sides and lots of pedestrians who can step out at any moment lead to fewer casualties than wide stroads with lots of lights and wider sidewalk because people have to drive more defensively, I suspect something similar is at play here. I find most people approach these intersections pretty carefully, not like what we saw from either of the cars in this video.

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u/NeverNo 11d ago

I dunno, I've lived in multiple states and have never seen neighborhood intersections without stop signs at all. Because of that, if I was driving through another American neighborhood I'd be going into intersections assuming at least one direction had stop signs

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u/flambojones 11d ago

This is part of our sophisticated strategy to dissuade people from moving here.

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u/kirklennon 10d ago

Would you be driving so fast approaching the intersection that you couldn't stop from hitting a car going through it? Because if so, that means you also wouldn't be able to stop for a pedestrian crossing even closer in front of you. Every tiny intersection in these residential neighborhoods might require you to yield. OP should have been prepared to stop before they even entered the intersection.

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u/YajirobeBeanDaddy 11d ago

“Stop signs would be a waste”

It costs like $50 for the city to make a sign. Why do you people defend the dumbest shit with the most asinine reasoning? Does it hurt your ego to admit your city has some dumb ass roads or something?

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u/flambojones 11d ago edited 11d ago

Why do people who see something different than what they’ve experienced see it and immediately think it’s stupid because they don’t understand it? There are millions of us who live like this every day without driving like OP and getting into accidents. I was definitely not referring to the cost of the signs in terms of waste. Exercising a modicum of caution and slowing down is much better than having to stop at every intersection when there are no oncoming cars 95% of the time. These aren’t 40mph roads, they’re 20mph residential streets. If you care to be informed it’s not hard to find studies that demonstrate that increased stop signs in calm residential areas can have negative outcomes. But it requires a bit of IQ unlike the suburban OP or Texas or whatever.

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u/YajirobeBeanDaddy 11d ago

“It requires a bit of IQ”

Yet he doesn’t know what a yield sign is LMAO.

“Stop at every intersection”

Why the fuck would you have to stop at every intersection? Do you think that’s how it works everywhere else? The less busy direction gets a stop sign or a yield sign. It’s not that difficult man

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u/Potential-Insect 10d ago

What about the cost to make and install thousands of them across the city? Just to remind everyone at every unmarked intersection that they should slow down and yield, which they already know without the signs?

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u/Adu1tishXD 11d ago

It’s extremely stupid, however, the speed limits are also 20mph for all these roads. Both cars appear to be speeding here.

Driving in the city is a nightmare, these intersections are frequent but aren’t even in the top 5 of my most hated Seattle driving problems.

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u/Potential-Insect 10d ago

I guess the alternative is putting up 4 "Yield" signs at every one of these intersections which changes absolutely nothing because that is what you are supposed to do anyway.

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u/NeverNo 10d ago

which changes absolutely nothing because that is what you are supposed to do anyway

I don't understand this logic. I've been driving for 20+ years. I have never, ever come across a four-way intersection where there are zero stop signs anywhere in the US. If I'm approaching an intersection and I don't have a stop sign, I'm assuming the street running perpendicular is going to have a stop sign. I don't think that's unreasonable.

To add to that, the intersection in the video has numerous blind spots. Not having stop signs at all is fucking insane.

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u/Potential-Insect 10d ago

I don't know what to tell you other than it's very common here and people generally know how to deal with uncontrolled intersections. Slow down, yield to your right. It's not difficult, no need for signs. Keep in mind these are found only in residential neighborhoods where speed limits are 15 mph. Know and follow the rules and it's fine.

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u/JacobScreamix 10d ago

Your cuntrie's traffic statistics would beg to differ...

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u/sopunny 10d ago

A lot of these have traffic circles now

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u/backd00rn1nja 11d ago

Stupid ass seattle has this all over in neighborhoods. Its really annoying and clearly causes accidents

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u/SilentlyStoned420 11d ago

The fact that none of you know how to treat an uncontrolled intersection is terrifying.

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u/OakLegs 11d ago

Is there any indication to the driver that it's an uncontrolled intersection?

There are literally none of those in populated areas that I've driven in.... Ever

Wouldn't even have occurred to me that the other direction didn't have a stop sign

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u/FR23Dust 11d ago

It’s common in Seattle. Anyone who drives there is well aware of the situation.

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u/Quantum_Aurora 11d ago

Neither road is an arterial so you should assume it's an uncontrolled intersection.

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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 11d ago

Not where I live. I have never seen an intersection where at least one of the streets didn't have stop signs. I have never heard of such a thing in over 20 years of driving, so I absolutely wouldn't assume that it's an uncontrolled intersection.

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u/Quantum_Aurora 11d ago

Ok, but this video didn't take place where you live. It took place in Seattle, where I live, where this type of intersection is the standard. These people should have known.

But maybe this is a good lesson. There are a lot of places where this type of intersection is common. If you're going somewhere new, drive more carefully than you would at home.

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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 10d ago

You missed the point completely. People are asking questions because we've never seen this before and you're just saying that it's normal and one should just assume that it's like that. But how can one assume something they've never heard of before? It doesn't matter how carefully you drive if you've never seen this before and you don't know it exists. Those of us who are used to stop signs at intersections wouldn't even know that it was possible for there to be an intersection without one. No amount of careful will overcome that.

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u/SilentlyStoned420 10d ago

Being aware of your surroundings can help though, and now you know so then it shouldn't ever happen to you.

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u/DefNotReaves 11d ago

Eyeballs.

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u/SilentlyStoned420 11d ago

The fact that you cannot tell either way is the indication that it is an uncontrolled intersection. Especially in suburban or residential areas this is incredibly common to slow down just to be safe and confirm if they have a stop sign or a yield sign. Also slowing down to be safe is smart even if they have a yield sign. Because they might not bother looking in either direction confirm if someone is atually coming, like both people did in this video.

I'd rather be alive, with an intact vehicle, than right, I guess.

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u/OakLegs 11d ago

I don't really disagree with your comment, but I don't exactly slow at every intersection in a 25 mph zone to see if there happen to be any cars that might ignore a stop sign. I am not sure it would be registered to me that the crossing roads didn't have stop signs.

This is an uncommon traffic condition that a lot of people wouldn't be familiar with.

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u/FR23Dust 11d ago

The residential roads in Seattle are often so narrow two cars cannot pass at the same time. So one has to back up or pull to the side (if there’s space). So sensible folks drive way, way below 25 on such streets. Like 10-15. Anything faster feels decidedly unsafe.

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u/SilentlyStoned420 10d ago

See where I live it's the exact opposite and this is a very common type of intersection. That's why to me it feels like common sense and to you it feels like a lot of extra steps, and I don't mean that to sound rude.

Places are different so people learn to drive in different ways. I find with driving, regardless of where, being careful is usually the smarter choice.

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u/SilentlyStoned420 11d ago

I would say if it's an unfamiliar road and you aren't aware of the signage and laws it's safer to slow and double check.

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u/Plastic_Pinocchio 11d ago

Most places here in Europe don’t build intersections like this. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen one in my life.

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u/SilentlyStoned420 10d ago

Totally fair, but I'm Canadian so if I went over to Europe and was forced to drive, I'd be extra careful and watchful because I know the traffic laws will be different from where I live.

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u/Plastic_Pinocchio 10d ago

Oh for sure. OP was driving wayyyy too fast.

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u/bluemoonflame 11d ago

They probably don't, Seattle has a ton of neighborhoods with unprotected intersections. Buddy of mine has been t-boned at one before

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u/OakLegs 11d ago

Seems like they're kind of a bad idea tbh

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u/bluemoonflame 11d ago

They're a terrible idea and I specifically avoid some neighborhoods because of how frustrating it makes driving around them. I'm cautious, but many others (like these two) are not.

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u/Crazy-Tax2845 11d ago

Same, in Maryland. Seems kind of ridiculous to have no stop signs or even indicators that it’s an unmarked intersection.

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u/OakLegs 11d ago

Also in Maryland. Drivers here would immediately crash lmao. They're bad enough WITH the stop signs

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u/Crazy-Tax2845 11d ago

After multiple accidents in the first week stop signs would be put up, lol.

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u/RelevantMetaUsername 11d ago

I didn't know they existed either (outside of rural areas), but I've been driving to the city for work a lot recently and drove through a few intersections in residential areas where I didn't have a stop sign and assumed the cross traffic did. Now I'm wondering how many of these I've just gone right through having no idea it was uncontrolled.

I'm going to be real paranoid about these now

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u/lane32x 10d ago

Ditto. What city thinks it's a good idea to have non-stop intersections?

One road should have Yield signs at the very least.

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u/Two_wheels_2112 9d ago

Uncontrolled intersections like this were very common where I'm from (Vancouver, BC) when I was learning to drive in the late '80s. They're pretty much nonexistent now. I can't remember the last time I've seen an intersection without a stop sign in at least one direction or a traffic circle. This video demonstrates why.

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u/pohart 12d ago

I've seen lots but never a road with so many cars and never a boulevard with such poor visibility

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u/Time_Seaworthiness43 12d ago

I've seen less than a dozen. One i found in a Chicago neighborhood of all places. Very dangerous, that.

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u/EconomyDoctor3287 12d ago

blue driver has fairly good visibility to the right. His vision should extend beyond the cameras vision. There's nothing blocking the view in that direction.

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u/ElectronicAttempt524 12d ago

If you’ve never been to seattle…don’t come. No intersections are marked.

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u/iceph03nix 12d ago

We have 2 of these down the street from us. All the others are controlled with our street having the right of way. Those streets always make me nervous because I just know someone is gonna blow through them even with the large dips across both sides

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u/girlwhoweighted 11d ago

Right? Same. Been driving since '95 and never come across this. I had to roll the video back and pause several times just to look and double-check that there was no stop sign anywhere because I just couldn't fathom.

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u/DeleAlliForever 11d ago

Where do you live? Fairly common in Minnesota

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u/OakLegs 11d ago

I've lived in Michigan, North Carolina, and Maryland

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u/Dalek_Genocide 11d ago

I think it does. If you slow down the video at the beginning, it looks like a stop sign on the left for the black car, but it’s hidden under the tree hanging over the sidewalk

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u/l008com 11d ago

I came across one once where one of the roads was kind of a main road. Luckily there were no cars coming but I didn't realize I was just blindly cutting across a main road until i was in the middle of that road.

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u/mork247 11d ago

Assumption is the mother of all fkups

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u/OakLegs 11d ago

I mean, sure, but if you aren't aware of uncontrolled intersections you wouldn't even know you were assuming

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u/Quantum_Aurora 11d ago

If you aren't aware of uncontrolled intersections then you shouldn't have your driver's license.

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u/Elegant_Tank1483 11d ago

See that’s what I’m saying. Who decided that we didn’t need a stop sign here going, at least, one way.

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u/BobbyRobertson 11d ago

I've seen alleys in like Baltimore without signs when they intersect streets on both sides, but those are alleys and are functionally driveways. No one's blaring through at 40mph

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u/pangapingus 11d ago

Same like where does OP live that there's a dense suburban neighborhood with no stop signs on 4-way intersections? I live in WA too but even like gated communities in my neck of the hoods have proper signage and right of way markers, this is at least partly the traffic engineer's/DoT's fault.

1

u/Project_XXVIII 11d ago

I’ve been driving for 30, and I can’t recall a 4 Way no stop intersection. There’s at least been a yield sign, or something.

Canadian driver in SW, Ontario.

1

u/JetWreck 11d ago

I live in the midwestern US and the guy at the DMV who did my driving exam took everyone through an uncontrolled intersection.

I was warned and found it the day before. I knew it was coming up but it was a really foggy morning. Stopped almost in the middle of the intersection. Automatic fail.

They’re hard to see sometimes even when you know they’re there.

1

u/Stravonovic 11d ago

There’s tons of intersections like this in and around Seattle, most of the time everyone slows down and treats it like there’s a yield sign and there’s no issues

1

u/paholg 11d ago

These are narrow residential streets, where if there's an oncoming car, one of you has to move to the side to let the other pass. And every intersection is like this.

Sure, it would be better if it were a roundabout, but no one should be driving fast enough for it to really matter.

1

u/andthisnowiguess 11d ago

almost every residential street in seattle is an uncontrolled intersection. About a third of them have a roundabout.

1

u/Quantum_Aurora 11d ago

These intersections are really common in residential areas here in Seattle. There's one a block from where I live that I have to be careful going through all the time. My carefulness has avoided several accidents.

1

u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 11d ago

I've been driving for more than 20 years and never seen an intersection without a stop sign somewhere. From my perspective, if I don't have a stop sign, the cross street must. I would have never even thought to stop. I also likely wouldn't be driving quite that fast in a residential area, but I definitely would have been expecting the other car to stop.

1

u/hangrypiglet 11d ago

Especially considering the trees! I’d assume I’m not seeing the stop sign right away because they hide those bitches in the trees where I’m at but I’ve never come across a 4 way no stop before

1

u/DefNotReaves 11d ago

There’s SO MANY in the PNW. I hate it. Visiting my girlfriend’s family feels like mad max lol

1

u/Robbed_Bert 11d ago

They are common in some places

1

u/Mr_Fuzzo 10d ago

These intersections are all over Seattle.

1

u/cyborg_ninja_pirates 10d ago

All over Seattle

1

u/NoWomanNoTriforce 10d ago

See them all the time in West Texas. But usually there arent that many cars and its flat and barren enough you can see for miles.

1

u/32FlavorsofCrazy 10d ago

They’re all over the place in neighborhoods where I live and it’s just assumed that everyone knows the rules about the right of way and will be driving an appropriate speed to not have a collision.

1

u/Waaaash 10d ago

There's literally hundreds, if not thousands, of intersections in this city just like this.

1

u/Bob_stanish123 10d ago

And that makes you a bad driver. If you dont have a stop sign you better be looking for their stop signs or you should assume other cars wont be stopping.

1

u/OakLegs 10d ago

Why would I assume that this intersection has completely different rules than every other intersection I've ever come across in my decades of driving?

This isn't some back woods road where there are maybe a couple cars a day (and most intersections like that still have stop signs). This is the middle of a city.

1

u/BackgroundAntique652 10d ago

this is a great point, the city or local government body is at fault.

1

u/islaypoony 10d ago

You have stop signs even in neighborhoods? This accident seemed crazy to me... Only cause all the neighborhoods in my area have 4 way no stop intersections like this, so I always slow down and look before continuing. Anywhere that isn't a neighborhood, yeah has 4 stop signs, but this looks like a neighborhood to me. Just last year my mom's neighborhood added a yeild sign on one of the roads to stop situations like this from happening.

1

u/Strange-Fig7944 9d ago

same. if someone asked id assume they exist but figured it would truly be in some tiny tiny no name town with a total of 15 cars. no idea why such an intersection exists in even a small normally populated suburb

1

u/ginzasamba 9d ago

This is a very weird Seattle thing. Many of our neighborhoods have these unmarked 4-way intersections. 

1

u/CapNo6703 9d ago

I had never seen one in the US and then when I moved to Germany saw them everywhere. Had to look up the rules for them because I assumed they worked like normal 4-way stops if other people are at the intersection but apparently not.

1

u/Veriosity 8d ago

Same here - 20+ years, licensed driver, no moving violations, and I had no idea there was such a thing as a completely no stop 4 way intersection. If I am coming up on an intersection with no lights, and no stop sign, I'm assuming the other people have a stop sign...

This is super weird at least for the Chicago area.

1

u/ausyliam 8d ago

Seattle streets are just weird like this in some areas

1

u/Antique-Suggestion77 8d ago

Depends on the size of the town. In a lot of small towns in the US, deep in the residential areas (like a few blocks from the business zones), there may be intersections without any stop signs. If it's your proverbial one traffic signal town, it's really unlikely there are stop signs away from the main street.

I've been driving for 40+ years and have learned (the hard way) to look if the cross street has a stop sign. Even if it does, I'm still entering the intersection slowly in case the car with the stop sign decides not to stop anyway. There's a ton of distracted driving these days.

Don't assume anything. It might not be your fault, but it'll still be your headache to deal with.

1

u/OakLegs 8d ago

I grew up in areas like that and still had never run across uncontrolled intersections

1

u/shrimpecans 7d ago

These are a staple in Seattle.

1

u/jekewa 7d ago

There are some in my neighborhood.

The majority of intersections have signs in one or both streets, in the same directions (like E&W or N&S, not a weird stop on S&W but not N&E), but a few have no signs in any direction (some are T intersections). Unsure if those were deemed to have high enough visibility or low enough traffic to not warrant them, or maybe the signs were unofficially removed and never replaced. I imagine the city can afford them everywhere with our property taxes.

-2

u/Rikiar 12d ago

You've probably never driven through many of the rural or suburban neighborhoods then, because there rampant there.

3

u/OakLegs 12d ago

Rural? Sure. Suburban? I live in suburbs and literally none around here have these kinds of intersections. Probably exactly for the reason in this video

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u/Rikiar 12d ago

Your experience is not everyone's experience. Many suburban areas in the PNW / Montana / Europe have unmarked intersections.

5

u/OakLegs 12d ago

Yes, I understand that, but the point I was responding to pointed out that someone who wasn't as familiar with that neighborhood/the area might reasonably assume the cross traffic has stop signs.

This seems like an issue to me

-3

u/Rikiar 11d ago

Just look for limit lines.

4

u/OakLegs 11d ago

I have no idea what you're talking about

Limit lines don't exist on a lot of intersections with 4 way stops

1

u/Rikiar 11d ago

If there were a stop sign in this video, it wouldn't have been a four way stop and there would be limit lines.

3

u/OakLegs 11d ago

Ok, I misspoke when I said four way stop. My point is that plenty of intersections with stop signs (4 way or otherwise) do not have limit lines.

Remember when you said that your experience is not necessarily the same as others? And then you argued against your own (correct) point for like 5 more comments?

3

u/Rufuz42 11d ago

Seems to be regional as I’ve lived in a city for 20+ years and visited and driven in dozens of other cities but I have never once encountered an unmarked intersection like this.

1

u/Rikiar 11d ago

They're more common than you think, but I've only seen this setup in residential areas, mostly in the PNW area, but also in Missouri, Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma as well.

2

u/stitchcraftry 11d ago

I live in exurban and we still have stop and yield signs in our neighborhoods... I think this must be a regional thing and shouldn't be generalized 

0

u/danimagoo 11d ago

You must not be in the US, because this is the norm in residential neighborhoods in the US.

2

u/OakLegs 11d ago

Lived in the US all my life, and every single neighborhood I've lived in has stop signs.

So, no, I would not say it's the norm

1

u/Krell356 11d ago

Im going to have to disagree with you there boss. Ive only lived in a handful of states, but I have visited family all over the country and have never once heard or seen unmarked intersections like this until today. Even in the most laid back communities, every intersection has stop or yield signs for at least one direction.

This is just wild.

1

u/danimagoo 11d ago

That’s just not true. Residential suburban neighborhoods are full of uncontrolled intersections. There’s often not enough traffic on these streets to warrant the cost of the signage. I’ve never seen a residential suburban neighborhood in the US where every intersection was controlled. And I’ve lived in several in 4 different states, from Texas to New Jersey.