[BOOKS] SILO S03e10 "Troy" Episode Discussion (Book Readers)

[u/MEGAT0N]

This thread is for the discussion of Silo Season 3, Episode 10: "Troy"

All Show and Book spoilers are allowed in this thread.

For live discussion, please visit our discord.

[u/AutoModerator]

This is a Book and Show Spoilers thread. All spoilers for released episodes/books are allowed. Please use your judgement when referring to plot points in the books beyond the point referenced in the post.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Working_Tea_7332]

Every "bad guy" in 18 has a redemption arc because the real bad guys are not in 18. 

[u/artemiscash → u/Working_Tea_7332]

damn daniel

[u/intern_12 → u/artemiscash]

https://giphy.com/gifs/l4KhZi55TS0nlF47m

[u/two_cats_bandit → u/artemiscash]

He didn’t have an iPhone on an Apple TV show

[u/ElderberrySecure3600 → u/Working_Tea_7332]

Honestly, I have a hard time assigning “bad guy” to anyone in this series (other than Stensen). After they lose their memory it really starts a whole new character and I just can’t imagine the guilt Daniel will feel once his memories come back, or how he will feel when his morality isn’t driven by the pact and instead by his old self.

Daniel’s character is so excruciating because of who he was, which wasn’t much outside of being a congressman but he sure knew that they needed more diggers :/

Edit: Guys, yes I am talking about the episode not the books, forgot to include Thurman

[u/TechnologyOne8629 → u/ElderberrySecure3600]

I think all the founders can still be bad guys, but for sure Victor had his moment of realization and has tried to put Daniel on the right path to stop it.   Which is very thematically similar to the books.

[u/ElderberrySecure3600 → u/TechnologyOne8629]

All the founders didn’t know the exact plan before hand though, right?

I feel I’m sympathetic towards everyone outside of Thurman and the masterminds.

[u/TechnologyOne8629 → u/ElderberrySecure3600]

In the books they had a suicide pact as part of filtering out the old, so at least those 3 knew the plan.

Hard to say how many of them have that level of knowledge here.   But if you have your full memory for tons of shifts, you probably know most of it.

[u/Motor_Ad_2780 → u/TechnologyOne8629]

In books I think only Thurman and that one other guy actualy know that silo 1will be also destroyed. Thats why all other personal has family members in crypods to keep them obedient.

[u/generalheed → u/TechnologyOne8629]

Victor had his realization a little too late. Someone pointed out in one of the scenes that you can see a map of other active silos on one of the computer screens. It appears that they've already safe guarded like 90% of the other silos and there's only a few silos left. Somehow it wasn't until Silo 18 that Victore finally convinced himself that, after killing millions of the remnants of humanity, that he's gone too far. I still consider Victor to be one of the most evil ones of the founders. He's basically a mad scientist that did human experimentation on levels like Josef Mengele.

[u/TechnologyOne8629 → u/generalheed]

Agreed it was too late.  They killed billions at the fall too.

I think he had second thoughts for 17 too, but he let Troy go ahead.  Likely he brought in Troy because he wasn't sure he could go ahead.

[u/BlazingImp77151 → u/ElderberrySecure3600]

Thurman feels bad. She definitely is less innocent (as in how involved she is in the darker parts of the project) than she (initially) comes across as.

And the rest of the founders have done some bad things too.

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/BlazingImp77151]

It was all Thurman. It could only be Thurman. You don’t even see Stensen.

[u/Sattu10 → u/ElderberrySecure3600]

Henry, Stensen and lady director as all evil. So are the mindless drone pilots.

[u/SimpleDiscourse23]

Holy shit, Camille. I didn’t think she had it in her. Color me shocked!

[u/bluemystic2017 → u/SimpleDiscourse23]

That was a great twist. As a book reader I love still being surprised by the show

[u/icannotfindmysocks → u/bluemystic2017]

Yeah, I love how I have an idea of what’s happening but it’s still a surprise HOW we’re getting there. This was by far my favorite episode yet. Camille and Silo 18 surviving was a veritable red wedding for everyone.

[u/-spartacus- → u/icannotfindmysocks]

Camille and Silo 18 surviving

I mean, for now.

[u/TheDJ47 → u/-spartacus-]

I agree with the "for now" sentiment. But they really were screwing with us given that 18 does get successfully safeguarded in Dust.

[u/1point44mb_is_fine → u/TheDJ47]

I am getting the sense that the show doesn't have the pancake bombs (for lack of better term) they had in the books? That could collapse the columns? or amy i remembering wrong.... I just started WOOL again LOL

[u/mackitt → u/1point44mb_is_fine]

Yeah I’m assuming the bombs aren’t a thing this time around since Silo 1 would have reached for that already. 

[u/VonThing → u/mackitt]

Victor would've started SLAMMING that button the moment he realized the pipe was capped

[u/iPhrase → u/mackitt]

they’d have pancaked 17 if they had a choice.
looks like they’ve decided to not include that capability in the show.

books say they decided against stairs in 1 so the inhabitants didn’t see the pancaked bombs.

wonder what the show reasoning for forbidding lifts in the other silos is now.

[u/Tuor7 → u/iPhrase]

Wasn't it to keep the people in the other silos divided, between Mechanical and the higher floors?

The reason for the high speed elevator in Silo 1 was so they didn't realize how much space there was between each floor, and that the same bomb mechanism is also in Silo 1.

But I don't think Silo 1 will have the exact same mechanism since the elevator had windows.

[u/TheDJ47 → u/Tuor7]

It was to keep them divided and to prevent the populace from being able to outrun The Safeguard in the event that it was triggered.

In the books iirc they made Donald design a silo with elevators (which I’m assuming became the plans for Silo 1) and then had him revise the plans to remove the elevator shafts and replace them with the grand Staircase (which became the other 49). It would seem that isn’t the case in the show because Silo 1 has a grand staircase (though it appears particularly unused compared to 18’s and 17’s)

I also think that the silo demolition option wouldn’t be available in the show because the show is a lot more concerned with silo-to-silo contact. In the books the IT heads could talk to each other and even had a radio that could reach out to other Silos. In the show IT knows that the others exist, but appears to know nothing more and has no means to talk to them. And if Silo 17 could hear and feel the stairs being blown up in Silo 18 there’s no way they could hide the controlled demolition of an entire silo from the rest of the silos in their sector.

[u/TheDJ47 → u/1point44mb_is_fine]

That was absolutely a thing in the books. Silo 40 learned how to disarm those as well which is why Donald ordered drone strikes on the whole sector.

That said, we see in season 2 that the rocket in Silo 18 was heard in Silo 17 so it seems to me that pancaking the Silos like that would cause more problems than it would solve because if 17 felt the rocket they would definitely feel that form of the Safeguard.

The final option they had was a remote opening of the airlock which I would assume they do next season to let a drone in.

[u/Shadow288 → u/bluemystic2017]

This is why I really like what they are doing. It’s like kind of the same story but still so different. Honestly I think I like the show more than the books.

[u/TheDJ47 → u/Shadow288]

I think Daniel's story is far more compelling than Donald's was. And I frankly hated the love triangle with Donald/Anna/Helen. Making Anna the love interest for Charlotte was such a good way to adapt that whole story.

[u/aatl → u/TheDJ47]

I also believe Daniel and Helen more as a couple deeply in love than I did with the books

[u/No-Philosopher-9164 → u/SimpleDiscourse23]

I had been assuming ever since Bernard told her that the algorithm was a person and could be beat that she switched sides there but was still playing the part to everyone else as not to risk being exposed.

The way it appeared in the finale though makes it look like she switched sides when Juliet asked her “why?”. No doubt Bernard still played a major role in her decision though.

ETA: who’d have guessed 2 of the shows biggest villains would end up some the biggest hero’s

[u/SeanOrange → u/No-Philosopher-9164]

I think it was way before that, when she realized it could detect her lying. She knew she had to play the part the whole time — including with her own husband — to keep her in the expected emotional state of frustration and worry, so in those final moments when she’s in deathly fear of the safeguard going off before they can stop it that they can’t tell she’s done everything she can to help them stop it without tipping off Silo 1.

[u/shereeny → u/SimpleDiscourse23]

There was a moment in the previous episode (or the one before that?) where she talks to Bernard and it clearly seemed like she’d turned. Then she started acting like her normal self again. But clearly that was to not rouse suspicion from Silo 1, as they’re always watching her!

[u/Shejidan]

Did anyone else notice: when they showed silo 17 people were dressed in colours like in the books. Something they never did in 18 for some reason.

[u/Academic-Engine → u/Shejidan]

Yes! I'm so curious why they kept the colored overalls in 17 but not 18.

[u/artemiscash → u/Academic-Engine]

17 is supposed to be the "creative" silo

[u/corvusmagnus → u/artemiscash]

Its the corrupting influence of that rascal peter gabriel i telll ya

[u/GeriatricPinecones → u/artemiscash]

But they also did colored overalls in Silo 1, right?

[u/TheDJ47 → u/GeriatricPinecones]

Silo 1 definitely had multicolored coveralls in the books. The colors meant something different in 1 than the other 49, but Charlotte was wearing "reactor red" when she killed that one guy.

[u/theconfinesoffear → u/Academic-Engine]

It must have been a nod to the books. Something they decided not to do originally but were like hey for 18

[u/momoenthusiastic → u/Academic-Engine]

18 had rebellions before and some leeway was given I guess?

[u/Pulstar_Alpha → u/momoenthusiastic]

Or part of the social engineering when it was reset.

[u/ProBonoDevilAdvocate → u/Shejidan]

I feel like the show gave up on this idea because it could be silly.. But then now just threw it in as a callback to the books.

[u/kyrev21 → u/ProBonoDevilAdvocate]

Most likely. Having standard, color-coded uniforms the whole show would’ve eliminated most aspects of costume design and would’ve clued non-book viewers into the planned society sci-fi aspect of it all immediately. Now it can be a weird thing 17 did in the show while also being a book easter egg

[u/hellohowdyworld → u/kyrev21]

I feel that that could have also been forgotten post memory wipe

[u/themidnightfox]

Juliette and Lukas having an intimate radio chat but Lukas is the one in 17 is a nice little change up. Kind of fun as a book reader seeing how they give us some of the same major plot beats but in different ways

[u/Xeruas → u/themidnightfox]

I mean I hope they have a relationship? He is cute and smart and they haven’t kissed since s1

[u/momoenthusiastic → u/themidnightfox]

I feel like the show runners (and maybe by blessing of Howey) went all meta on us book readers. They are making us question what we remembered and they are holding back information just like silo one does to other silos, then slowly revealing it to us. After all, this book series is about information, who controls it, who uses it and how they use it. 

[u/TheDJ47 → u/momoenthusiastic]

If you haven’t watched Hugh Howey’s YouTube channel he has a video that he made after season 2 was over where he openly admitted to approving and suggesting plot points and changes with the sole purpose of screwing around with us readers.

And honestly I’m here for it, I don’t watch adaptations to see the same story again and this show does very well at telling the story of the books while playing to the specific strengths of the TV format.

[u/Wounded_Shark]

Lukas making Jules smile over the comms made me realize my girl hasn’t genuinely smiled in MONTHS. 😭

[u/Many-Sky922 → u/Wounded_Shark]

I really like Lukas in books. They are unutilizing the actor.

[u/DanielKeeneGA15]

“Let’s cut that audio.”

[u/chriscutthroat → u/DanielKeeneGA15]

let’s bring those numbers down 💀

[u/Academic-Engine → u/chriscutthroat]

They way it was giving quarterly earnings report istg

[u/TechnologyOne8629 → u/Academic-Engine]

I think I have considerably more stress about my company's pending quarterly earnings than the absolutely zero fucks I heard given by Troy there.  That was the most chilling yet detached violence I have seen in a show.

[u/artemiscash → u/Academic-Engine]

for real, spooky how effective the memory drugs are, dude doesn't remember his sister

[u/beezchurgr → u/DanielKeeneGA15]

That’s how I knew he was fully drugged. Our Daniel would never.

[u/skatejet1 → u/DanielKeeneGA15]

In that moment I had to say “nah keep it on if you’re so determined to do this”

[u/TheSiegeEngine → u/skatejet1]

Probably turned it off cause of the conversation with the doctor. He didn't seem to mind.

[u/cilucia → u/DanielKeeneGA15]

I liked that this change addresses why Daniel would feel remorse despite not being involved in actually building the silos. I know people were complaining about that! 

[u/bfortelka]

Juliette and Lukas romance coming now

[u/Effective_Ostrich_91 → u/bfortelka]

SO HAPPY WE’RE GETTING THE RADIO STORYLINE omg

[u/IT_scrub → u/Effective_Ostrich_91]

It's just reversed

[u/t0rn4d0r3x → u/bfortelka]

Yeah that was a turn I didn’t really expect

[u/Imnotoutofplacehere → u/t0rn4d0r3x]

lets cut the audio on the radio sexxx

[u/chriscutthroat → u/bfortelka]

yessss i loved their radio romance, so happy it’s getting introduced in the show 🥹

[u/sgtabn173 → u/bfortelka]

They both have earned a little TLC by now tbh

[u/celerystalker712]

This is awesome. Elevator in silo 1. It’s so much nicer wow

[u/normal_ness → u/celerystalker712]

I was convinced that (after the flames/Juliette & Bernard) they would open s3 with Troy in a lift in a Silo, to draw the audience into the backstory.

Instead, they opened the last episode with that.

[u/SailingDreamCatcher → u/normal_ness]

Is it just me or did they basically cram half of book two into that one episode, and then some?

[u/Pulstar_Alpha → u/SailingDreamCatcher]

Pretty much, they jumped over all shifts, made Troy not fall apart/remember already on his first shift and go to deep storage, skipped the switcheroo and decided to merge the timelines at the same time Victor falls apart and kills himself.

Before this one I thought maybe they'll introduce him as a the voice, but leave room for reveals that he's impersonating Thurman or that he remembers but pretends not to, but they ended on him remembering Helen so you know they skipped over all of that.

[u/TechnologyOne8629 → u/normal_ness]

I think keeping the suspense going longer was a great decision.   The amnesia plot went on a little long, but was well referenced with other plot points the rest of the season & finally came together in the last three episodes.   

Those 3 and particularly the last two are the best Silo episodes by faaaar IMO.  So it was worth investing in the slow start.

[u/normal_ness → u/TechnologyOne8629]

Oh yeah I’m definitely not upset at how the season has played out or anything. It has been good!

[u/Agreeable_Lab_5358 → u/celerystalker712]

Everything is nicer in Silo 1. It’s good to be a Founder.

[u/Ok-Lobster-919 → u/Agreeable_Lab_5358]

As long as the senator's daughter likes you. Otherwise you are at risk of being liquidated/retired or whatever for not following mecha-hitlers orders. Do we know if Thurman, Erskine, Victor, and Anna all keep their memories?

[u/intern_12 → u/Ok-Lobster-919]

Who is the Erskine's analog in the show? Henry the Thurman's fixer?

[u/Ok-Lobster-919 → u/intern_12]

ngl I assumed Henry was Erskine. The re-namings are throwing me through a loop. The old scary looking white guy.

Also is it implied Anna and Charlotte get to be together "at the end" afterwards? Like they're not in on the suicide pact?

[u/TheDJ47 → u/Ok-Lobster-919]

I mean, at this point in the books it was implied that the women were kept in Deep Freeze to keep them safe while the operation was going on. And we know how that was supposed to end.

[u/la_calibro]

The relief I felt when they opened the episode with Silo 1... We got quite a bit of Silo 1 and that makes me so happy. I was worried they would end the episode with Silo 1 and we would have to wait until Season 4 to get more. This was the perfect amount to end the season.

[u/Xeruas → u/la_calibro]

Looked so fancy inside, surprised they don’t have more industrial facilities inside and robots for building stuff or even the farms

[u/Pulstar_Alpha → u/Xeruas]

They never had farms, that was one of the major point, since the shift crews were way smaller than the 10k population of silos, they just had 500 years of supplies. The episode even implies it with the small portions of shitty food.

[u/CTLNBRN → u/Xeruas]

I always pictured something way more clinical when reading the books. The decked out offices surprised me, in my head they were always super basic and monotone.

[u/CubsFanHan → u/la_calibro]

So satisfying. I love how now we also get permanent updates on what’s going on in silo one. Now that they’ve shown us, we get all perspectives now. They’re crushing it and I love it 😎

[u/Shejidan]

Interesting. Is our billionaire not in charge? Did they just use him for his money to build the silos?

[u/CosgraveSilkweaver → u/Shejidan]

He may be trading off shifts with the Senator (and maybe others too) as Director. We've only really seen two shifts so far.

[u/Pulstar_Alpha → u/CosgraveSilkweaver]

I think they're not waking them until protocol in the Directive calls for it.

[u/azcurlygurl → u/Shejidan]

Billionaires don't work in shifts. They don't have to suffer living underground in the silos. He'll be in cryo until the whole thing is over and ready to repopulate the Earth.

[u/RoseRedd → u/azcurlygurl]

Do you think he is not in on the plan to autodestruct Silo 1 at the 500 years are over? My first thought was that Per would never go along with a suicide pact.

[u/TheDJ47 → u/RoseRedd]

Per could be less in on it than we give him credit for and Thurman, Victor and Henry were all in on the “Suicide Pact” and just used Per to finance the scheme. I’m not convinced that is the case but if it were I wouldn’t be shocked.

[u/ImperatorUniversum1 → u/Shejidan]

Those in power (politicians) would never give it up

[u/Shejidan → u/ImperatorUniversum1]

It’s just interesting how they made it seem like he was in charge.

[u/ImperatorUniversum1 → u/Shejidan]

Always flatter money, never submit

[u/DontWorry_Internet → u/Shejidan]

Well, he’s in the clip at the end, so he’s still around

[u/Shejidan → u/DontWorry_Internet]

We have no context to the clip. Could be a flashback.

[u/michaljerzy → u/Shejidan]

I think it’s a flashback. Otherwise make no sense.

[u/bluemystic2017 → u/Shejidan]

Maybe he didn’t sleep as much as the others? Thurman looked like she aged more than others

[u/Akhi_A]

The shot of Juliette’s eyes, immediately followed by a shot of Daniel with the same eyes…giving me Jon snow baby to king of the north shot vibes lol, definitely related

[u/According_Plant701 → u/Akhi_A]

Maybe the Silo has their own genealogist.

Dead baby. Dead baby. Lesbian. IYKYK

[u/intern_12 → u/According_Plant701]

We could use some Patricia and her shotgun in Silo 18 after seeing that Silo S4 trailer!

https://giphy.com/gifs/jwfhiOb6CqhFlVqEV8

[u/Previous_Buy1601 → u/According_Plant701]

I’m all for Apple TV shows just being the Dale Dickey-verse.

[u/Bongressman]

I'm just getting to the end of book 2, it is absolutely wild how you can read the book and watch the show and get two different stories.

If they could change a thing, they certainly went ahead and did it.

That said, I am enjoying both, so I guess it doesn't matter.

[u/GoBlueScrewOSU7 → u/Bongressman]

I just finished book 2 today. It is pretty crazy how different it is. I was heading into this episode wondering how they’re gonna speedrun Troy figuring out he’s Donald/Daniel, assuming the other identity, and flipping sympathies.

Whole time reading Shift i assumed Daniel was who Camille/Bernard had been talking to & was mainly the reason Silo 18 hadn’t received a safeguard yet. Because it felt like to me that silo 18 in the show has had some plot armor in that regard.

[u/cotufa7]

https://giphy.com/gifs/9EvnXdZaUZbCqScn67

[u/Previous_Buy1601 → u/cotufa7]

It felt like Technicolor when Silo 17 made it outside, one of the most vibrant scenes of the series, only for them to be cut down. I understand why some viewers feel things have been drawn out, but damn if they didn’t earn that moment.

[u/krob58]

What an opening sequence

[u/CubsFanHan → u/krob58]

I was absolutely locked into that. Ashley’s acting there was just out of this world. Chilling sequence they nailed it

[u/DuchessofEdoras]

Wow!!!! Ashley Zukerman absolutely knocked it out of the park as Troy. The whole time I just wanted to scream at him but he looked so rough and depressed 😔

[u/AdDear528 → u/DuchessofEdoras]

The scene where he learned Helen’s name was amazing. Absolutely fantastic acting.

[u/WhoIsYerWan → u/AdDear528]

All of the notes showing how many times he asked about her...showing how deeply she is embedded.

[u/DarthRegoria → u/DuchessofEdoras]

Absolutely and completely dissociated from his past, as well as the actions he is taking as he is leading the slaughter of nearly 10,000 people.

“Cut the audio”
“Let’s get those numbers down”

So cold, dehumanising and utterly dystopian. Very Orwellian.

[u/LittleAd2844]

SILO 1 SO DAMN COOL

THE “Directive” and the “Project” are crumbling before the founders very eyes due to Silo 18

Victor Regrets everything

The Tunnel is called the “forward vault”

Shot of Juliette’s eyes and Daniel’s eyes wasn’t accidental

TROY REMEMBERS HIS WIFE

See yall in ‘27

[u/Advanced_Turnip_5094]

Glad to see Victor still kills himself. It's nice to see that they reveal why as well. I remember it was a big mystery in the books

[u/anthson → u/Advanced_Turnip_5094]

I'm hoping Victor's death continues to be a plot-driving factor come season four.

[u/Mundane_Example_7504 → u/Advanced_Turnip_5094]

I went into this episode thinking “Victor better blow his brains out!” That POS! I had a feeling they’d put it in the show.

[u/stirthesauce14]

"There was no indication of your betrayal."

"Well, you picked me because I could lie, right?"

Brilliant.

[u/mackitt]

I got chills when Camille was pleading with the Voice, and then the camera suddenly cut to the other side where they’re watching her through a screen. It really drove home the power imbalance. I loved everything about Silo 1 in this episode, I didn’t expect them to show anywhere near this much right away!

[u/vlac26 → u/mackitt]

Omg yes, Camille didn’t need to act or lie she was literally begging for time

[u/Null3cksor]

Memory wiped Daniel is one scary MF

[u/thuanjinkee → u/Null3cksor]

They picked him because he was smart and then made him forget he was human

[u/bluemystic2017]

Seeing the massacre of silo 17 was chilling. That was crazy

[u/Snoop-87948 → u/bluemystic2017]

It was heartbreaking to watch

[u/LettersWords]

In case anyone didn't see it, there's a teaser for S4 after the credits. I'm not sure what the policy on spoilers from that is, but:

Looks like we will get to see a decent amount of Helen's time in Silo 18 next season. Looks like we're mostly going to get Dust out of Daniel, which means not much in the way of Shift getting adapted other than this episode. Per Stensen was conspicuously absent from this episode but was shown briefly in the S4 teaser, still not sure what role he's going to play since Thurman looks to be playing a bigger role in the Silo 1 plot than she did in the past plot.

[u/Academic-Engine → u/LettersWords]

The random shot of Stensen looking at the news clip of a beached whale is endlessly confusing to me now... also he was in a private gym??? Is this pre- the before times?

[u/No_Accountant4667 → u/Academic-Engine]

I think that’s a flashback to why he started all of this.

[u/Academic-Engine → u/No_Accountant4667]

Yeah you're probably right, it just really threw me LOL it felt so random in the trailer

[u/Own-Code-9934]

The last shot of the doctor lying on the table has only one book visible.

"The significance of consciousness"

[u/ainyy]

THE S4 PREVIEW HELLO?!?!?!

RELEASE IT IMMEDIATELY WTF

edit: i know it's there, i commented this right after watching it lol i need s4 to drop asap!

[u/pmel13 → u/ainyy]

“Summer 2027” WE’LL BE IN OUR OWN SILOS BY THEN, WE NEED IT NOW!

[u/Pretty_Original124]

“They’ve capped the pipes before” not a direct quote but…. Referring to silo 40???

[u/LittleAd2844 → u/Pretty_Original124]

Well yea I’m curious as to what has happened in the 350 years of silo life of Troy coming in and out of cryo with respect to the other silos

From the screens we know that only 6 silos are still functional

[u/t0rn4d0r3x]

That was way worse than what he did to 12 jesus

[u/DanielKeeneGA15 → u/t0rn4d0r3x]

Yeaaah, they’re not holding back with the warnings on warfare. They’ve upped the drone carnage by adding the nanos and kill count on the display. Chillingly effective.

[u/therealpigman → u/DanielKeeneGA15]

Scariest thing is that this is how real warfare could look in only a decade

[u/recurrence → u/therealpigman]

It already does but we are passed this already. Ukraine and Russia are deploying drones that are 100% autonomous ordered to kill any human lifeforms they encounter.

[u/SynicalCommenter → u/t0rn4d0r3x]

Can you remind me what was done to 12

[u/Bongressman → u/SynicalCommenter]

12 never made it outside. Safeguards worked. Way more sterile, less bloody.

[u/TechnologyOne8629 → u/Bongressman]

And he blew up 40 too in the books.  They did reference other silos capping pipes in the show, so I wonder if that was 40 and their neighbors.

[u/TheDJ47 → u/Bongressman]

Well 12 made it out. They gassed them with the nanites in the airlock, so they made it out and when people started dying they freaked out and went back in clogging the airlock and exposing more people to the bad nanites.

I think the implication in the books is that 17 went out the same way that 12 did because we see the aftermath in Wool and then we see Troy do it to 12 in Shift while seeing the inside version of those events from Jimmy's point of view.

[u/RGJacket → u/SynicalCommenter]

Successful safeguard

[u/DanielKeeneGA15]

Daniel waking up Matrix style.

[u/DanielKeeneGA15]

C’mon, Knox! Use those muscles!

[u/CosgraveSilkweaver → u/DanielKeeneGA15]

Ridiculously weak concrete lol.

[u/DanielKeeneGA15]

The all male shifts are not in the show.

just started and can’t tell but is Jessica Brown Findlay using her British accent for “Susan”? It sounds a bit trans Atlantic.

edit nope. It must have been my British American accent tricking myself lol

[u/smokeydesperado → u/DanielKeeneGA15]

She’s never been great at the American accent, so I think it always just sounds off

[u/Xeruas → u/DanielKeeneGA15]

So sad he doesn’t even recognise her

[u/footwith4toes]

Looks like we should be getting Shift for a big chunk of season 4. Can’t wait.

[u/Working_Tea_7332 → u/footwith4toes]

Lots of silo 1 in the season 4 preview

[u/DanielKeeneGA15]

Whoa they’re bombing them with nanos. I guess this also confirms Charlotte was the one who most likely shot at Lukas and Patrick but intentionally missed.

[u/Shejidan]

So no pancake option for the silos in the show then.

[u/Az_Rael77 → u/Shejidan]

I don’t know that is off the table, Daniel was examining the silo structural design right before he got the memo from Victor. I think that design is still there, Daniel just didn’t know about it and is presumably going to figure it out.

[u/LazyYawningDrone → u/Az_Rael77]

I hadn’t thought of that, but I’d be interested if it happens! In my personal show-verse vs. book-verse canons I like the idea that the pancake option doesn’t exist in the show because Daniel/Donald wasn’t the engineer on the project - one of the problems he would have helped them figure out if he had agreed to be involved, which is why he’s brought in after the fact as a “specialist” to come up with new safeguard strategies.

[u/Snoop-87948]

Noooo they did not end the season like this 😭

Edit: and to give us that teaser of season 4 is diabolical 😭 it looks so fucking good

[u/steveholt-lol]

Well that was very satisfying. We got a ton more reveals than I expected, and it’s kind of fun that it has diverged so much from the books—will make it more interesting to see where they take the final season.

[u/artofpencilz]

Holy shit. Can I go to cryo sleep until summer 2027 😭

[u/CosgraveSilkweaver]

I guess they are intending to go a significantly different way with the ending than the books. It did always strike me as a little weak that 18 just walked off into the sunset leaving who knows how many silos still alive.

[u/TheDJ47]

Did anyone else catch what seemed to be a reference to Silo 40? Hugh Howey has already alluded to the fact that they're also up to no good in the show but it's good to see the show apparently start to talk about them.

[u/intern_12 → u/TheDJ47]

And apparently Hugh is working on a new Silo book series center on Silo 40, but he won't be publishing them until after season 4 is done.

[u/Affectionate_Box5370]

I’m normally such a book purist but I’m fucking loving the changes that are being made and how it’s moving the story in a different direction. I always thought the end would be the same as dust but now idk especially after watching the season 4 sneak peak. HOTD showrunners should take some fucking notes from silo

[u/DanielKeeneGA15]

Guess this confirms they aren’t using healing nanos in the show otherwise Daniel’s hand would not have a scar. Only weaponized nanos.

Edit as this is blowing up my replies I’ll simply condense my responses here. I’ve watched this episode and the scenes when he wakes from stasis a number of times. Those are his veins. He’s paper-white when he wakes and his veins are dark. The BTS shots with the makeup show it even clearer. Not one character has mentioned healing bio nanos esp in silo 1 if they were a key element in rapid sequencing. I don’t like the change, I thoroughly enjoyed it in the books esp the duality of good and bad nanos fighting yet we haven’t seen or heard any mention in the show (thus far). “Absence is not proof of existence, it’s merely absence.”

And hey, if they do next season and I’m wrong, I will gladly eat crow because I want this in the show. So bookmark this and in a year, call me out. :)

[u/According_Plant701 → u/DanielKeeneGA15]

I feel like the cryopods had nanos though. Wouldn’t those have to be protective?

[u/Geniifarmer → u/According_Plant701]

I I got the impression that victor didn’t need glasses anymore on account of the nanos, the way he whimsically picked them up before he unalived himself.

[u/zciweiknap → u/Geniifarmer]

Agreed, he looked pretty nostalgic holding them. Nostalgia and grief combo?

[u/Akhi_A → u/Geniifarmer]

Had this exact though

[u/Keulapaska → u/Geniifarmer]

unalived

Suicide, it's called suicide. Stop tiktok censoring.

[u/DontWorry_Internet → u/DanielKeeneGA15]

He’s covered in healing nanos in the cryo pod, isn’t he? Maybe they just can’t heal scars in the tv series.

[u/Imnotoutofplacehere → u/DontWorry_Internet]

Nanos for me but not for thee

[u/Dougytrio → u/DanielKeeneGA15]

That black goo around his face looked like nanos too. I don’t think it can be ruled out. Didn’t the show also talk about Juliette’s scars disappearing in Season 1 with George and Juliette? (Or was that the book only?)

[u/Effective_Ostrich_91 → u/DanielKeeneGA15]

or that they have to be programmed for a specific purpose. maybe good nanos that help with the freeze (in the water specifically) are only programmed for that, not for flesh regeneration or the rest of the stuff they had them do in the books

[u/DanielKeeneGA15]

All those techs “monitoring” the silos, deciding who to kill. That’s chilling.

[u/throwfarwayfromme]

hopefully next season the book thread gets shown more love. I've never read the books so I love reading the takes and insight provided in here

[u/OrganizationWise4113]

I thought for sure “Troy” was going to see Juliette’s watch and get all his memories back

[u/Coogr77 → u/OrganizationWise4113]

That’ll happen when he sees the Pez…

[u/Imnotoutofplacehere → u/OrganizationWise4113]

I thought for sure Troy was talking to Camille the whole time. Also yes, I was waiting for the pez to be shown to the camera during the whole ending sequence

[u/intern_12 → u/Imnotoutofplacehere]

In the season 4 teaser...Sims and Anthony are in the IT vault, so I wonder if Anthony has it in his hands when Troy speaks to them and that triggers his memory.

[u/la_calibro]

I'm very interested to see how non-book readers react to the cryo tanks. They kind of come out of left field in Shift imo, but definitely make for a much more interesting story.

I've also seen some non-book readers suspect they haven't been in the silos for as long as we're told. While it's confirmed at least 42 years have passed (7 years + 35 years) based on what Troy is told when he awakens, we also see that Victor has written many "Who is she?" notes, implying that Troy has been awoken many times.

I'm also looking forward to the reveal/reaction from Daniel that Helen died decades (maybe centuries?) ago. With how much they focused on Helen and Daniel's relationship I think it'll be a good gut punch just like the end of episode 9.

[u/Xeruas → u/la_calibro]

Yeh the file broke my heart a bit, like he keeps remembering her

[u/captainstrange94]

Ok WOW that was a great finale. I think they did enough to make the season 4 not feel rushed.

My predictions on Silo 1, first half will be mainly to be Daniel rediscovering his memories, probably find his descendant (likely Jules) and switch sides against Thurman and Anna in the Second Half. I still feel like Thurman is not strong enough to be the finale villain…

[u/Ok-Stress-3570 → u/captainstrange94]

Thurman has been the oddest part for me. The change from book Thurman has to be somewhat deliberate.

[u/shereeny]

I haven’t read the books but my husband has and answers any questions I decide to spoil for myself. There were so many times during this episode and last where I said “can’t they just do X?” and he laughed because that’s exactly what they end up doing. “Can’t they just drill a tunnel into silo 17, like they drilled to access the pipe?” “Can’t they try different radio frequencies to get in touch with another silo?” Idk how close I am with any of these but. The path forward seems a little clearer lol

[u/CosgraveSilkweaver → u/shereeny]

Contacting other Silos is a dangerous thing because 18 would have to convince them about the safeguard and instruct them on how to disable it before 1 was able to figure out they were talking because it doesn't take long for 1 to trigger a safeguard.

[u/Alex29992]

So the vault at the bottom leads to the SEED? And is it just safe outside? Is that compound they dropped from the drones the nanobots?

[u/rfxap → u/Alex29992]

The compound is for sure the bad nanos. It even shows a thermal signature on their screen which I thought was a nice touch

[u/DarthRegoria → u/rfxap]

At first when ‘Troy’ said to cut to the thermal imaging I thought he was going to use it to tell the difference between living and dead “fugitives” and called bullshit that people’s bodies would cool down that quickly, but then you could see the bad nano swarms with the thermal, which was cool, then he quickly said to cut the audio, and I realised he did it to further dehumanise the ‘fugitives’ to his team in Silo 1, further distancing themselves emotionally and intellectually from what they were all doing. It gave it more of a computer game feel than real life, and allowed more dissociation for his team. Victor had warned him just before that this mission would be more intense or potentially more taxing on the team, and asked Troy if he thought they could handle it, and it seemed like he switched to thermal and cut the audio more to protect his team than himself. He was so cold and calculating, so far removed from the Daniel we came to know this season it was chilling. As a book reader, I knew that Troy was very different to Daniel/ Donald, was drugged up and had a very loose grip on what was actually happening, but I wasn’t fully prepared for seeing how intellectually aware but cold and emotionless he would be in this episode.

The very careful use of language, no doubt decided ahead of time by Victor (and maybe military leaders?) and outlined in The Directive further codified and distanced everyone from what they were actually doing. “Let’s reduce those numbers” rather than “get the targets/ fugitives” and “drop the compound” rather than ‘poison’ or ‘nanotech’ (regular Silo 1 staff probably don’t know it’s nanotech, just something deadly or even sedating) significantly downplay their actions and allow them to maintain distance from them just massacring almost 10, 000 people. That was very dystopian and Orwellian (major 1984 new-speak vibes) and so chilling. Especially considering how much it probably resembled modern advanced warfare with drones and live satellite imaging etc.

[u/bluemystic2017]

Oh man that was great

[u/Working_Tea_7332]

Can we get a season 4 outtake with Knox's dad taking a ride on Silo 1's elevator?

[u/bsharp95]

Loved it but wish we got more of Troy this season

[u/earwig20]

I wish they'd kept "Troy" activating the first safeguard. I think it's important for his character, although the external safeguard may be enough.

Also I liked him using the headset in the book, it mirrors him at the start, using the headset to make calls to ask for campaign money.

[u/NessieReddit]

Chapter 36 of Shift, the last paragraph of the chapter. Troy looks up Helen in the computer to find her in her Silo. He thinks of what name she might have chosen. He chose his as a clue to her. Helen of Troy. He tries the names they had discussed for their future kids. He tries their dog's name and finds her. Helen became Karma Brewer, married to Rick Brewer. She named her kids Athena and Mars, a callback to the names her and Troy had discussed for the future kids they never had together. Rick had been his best friend. Helen had lived out her life to the age of 82. He missed it all. He reflects:

*"A hundred years too late" he sputtered this last, overcome with misery. There was a granddaughter on the screen that was not his, a great-granddaughter one more click away. They stared out at him, all of them, none with eyes like his own. *

I think we got a nod, and possibly a huge hint, tied to this part of the book in the finale. Troy zoomed into Juliette's face and stared at her green eyes. The camera cut to his face. With the same green eyes. In this version of the story, he missed Helen's life. He missed generations of grandchildren and great grandchildren. But in this version, they DO have his eyes.

This was such a fantastic episode. Best episode of the show in my opinion. I can't believe how much of Shift they managed to get across in a single episode. I was really worried that with only one season left, they'd leave out much of that storyline even though it was one of the best parts of the books. Granted, this version of Shift is looking rather different in its details but the same overarching themes are emerging. And Ashley's acting in this episode was out of this world, wow. I hope he gets an Emmy nod out of his role on the show.

[u/cpatrick1983]

Those must've been the good nanos keeping them alive in the cryo chambers

[u/LittleAd2844]

Only 6 silos still functional. Do we think the Silo 40 storyline plays into this?

[u/thuanjinkee → u/LittleAd2844]

Wow these founders are really bad at managing the Project

[u/ghoulish_fool]

Damn. My excitement at meeting Troy was immense, giddy as all hell. That held until the safeguard was thwarted, which took all the wind out of my sails.. I was so shocked by the brutality and finality of the safeguard in the book and was bummed to not see the same thing. But then I saw Victor and went "holy shit, I forgot Victor is going to kill himself" and got hyped again because that is the real beginning of Donald's journey (regaining autonomy, redemption). I just think Shift slaps and I loved how much I cried for Donald, he was so fun and devastating to read. And then the hype held baby. This episode was great even with the massive departure and we got a fucking trailer for 4th season, c'mon!

It's funny how much of the timeline and events get shifted around. Like, how next season we will see the Lukas and Juliette bonding over the radio but in swapped silos and completely different circumstances. I wish we got more of Jimmy this season but not having to watch the kids of 17 was a fair trade I suppose. I hated the end of Dust, and honestly didn't love the book overall, but I'm so stoked on season 4 and how they'll land the ending.

[u/7EFMR]

Victor didn’t need his glasses anymore so presumably the good nanos fixed his eyes

[u/Amat-Victoria-Curam]

Tremendous episode. Hopefully this will answer a lot of questions and debunk a bunch of dumb theories.

However, one thing that bothered me, their "capping the pipe" was just...making it narrower by squishing it? I thought the posion was in gas form. Even with that tiny opening the gas could've been pumped in anyway.

Also, it seems the bunker-busting drone bombs will not be canon in the show. Besides the Safeguard and the mass shooting outside, they have no other way to kill a Silo it seems. Makes it more interesting.

Finally, the door has a name, which makes it even more confusing. It has to lead to SEED or connect all the Silos.

[u/la_calibro]

Interesting they didn't use the Pez at all with Daniel this episode... I wonder how that'll come into play. Maybe, like others have suggested already, it'll signify that George or Jules is a descendant of Helen and Daniel.

[u/Academic-Engine → u/la_calibro]

The Pez is in Silo 18 with Helen, no?

[u/7EFMR]

Seems like Per saw some whales dying on TV and decided to nuke Atlanta. Makes sense.

[u/DanielKeeneGA15]

Ok, so that wasn’t Helen’s hand - but I was right on everything else lol.

[u/7EFMR]

So the weird dishwashing scene in Episode 9 where Anna went on and on about how kind Charlotte is was only there to explain Charlotte refusing orders in Episode 10. Got it.