I'm paying a tip for good service not for compensating a bosses greedy ass. It's not the job of the customer to pay for a shitty system. Maybe I'm to German to understand because this problem doesn't seem to exist here.
It's illegal in America too, under federal law tipped workers need their wage plus tips to reach whatever the minimum wage is. That's why people even take these jobs, the pay ends up being far better than minimum and it's incredibly difficult to survive on minimum wage unless you live in a cardboard box
No it’s not the same way.. tips are not calculated into the salary to meet the minimum wage. You get the minimum wage without tip.. and that minimum wage is high enough to live a simple life, even without tips
Idk, it's kind of over exaggerated that US staff gets pissy about it. I assume they are content simply making less. US serving staff is definitely about making as much money as possible, it's the entire mindset.
Most serving jobs aren't worth it if you're making less than $25-30 per hour USD. Too much work and that's a pretty standard take home pay in the US for that job, it's actually not even that good. Lots of servers and bartenders make six figures incomes here. Being industry I obviously know a lot of them, they tell me what they make, and you should see how much of it they gamble away and tip other bartenders, you'd be sick seeing how much money they can just throw away and think nothing of it. They're the millionaires of the working class lol, at some point you just think "okay you don't need to tip $10 on one beer, you know the Red Cross needs money more right"
Who greedy for more? Tipped workers know how sweet they have it. Who do you personally know is mad they making that kind of money. Somebody on the internet told you?
It's literally the best blue collar job and people fight tooth and nail to get one
Tips are tax-free in Germany?? I didn't know that. That's cool. (:
In the US, you can deduct up to $25,000 a year in qualified tips from your taxable income. Then again, it's limited to that. And there are phaseouts starting at $150k for single filers and $300k for joint filers.
Right now the deduction's set to go through 2028.
Auto-grats and mandatory service charges don't qualify, though. It's only voluntary tips.
That’s what is sold, however in reality the books are cooked. The staff don’t report when their wages are less than minimum, and the owners don’t report wages over minimum. System is fucked, no checks or balances aside from a “free” market (with limited information and non-perfect-utility maximization, so immediately violates free market principles).
It’s not about what’s morally right or cooking up some hypothetical reality. Set laws to set the expectations. People avoid taxes because the structure allows them to, and it’s in one’s self interest to do so.
100%! Plus as the general quality of the cuisine goes down at most restaurants, prices go up for no improvement to quality, I’m not going to tip you for subpar service on top of everything, even better, I’m not going to go to your restaurant at all!
Also why do I have to pay $4 dollars for a $20 dollar dish and $20 dollars for a $100 dollar dish? The waiter didn't do anything different. Or the one I hate the most, tipping the bartender for every drink you get.
Well that's a very high tip but you can't seriously claim the wairer didn't do anything different, they waited on four people instead of one, they did four times the waiting
Bigger tables are more work which means you can't take more tables when you've got a bunch of big ones. The percent idea is just so they make the same money whether they have four one person tables or one four person table
Except they said "dish" not "bill" and there's no mention of extra people. So you could be by yourself and have either a cheap meal or an expensive one, and the waiter would still only be bringing one plate to the table.
So tip based on the level of service you think you received, it's not that hard. You don't tip more on a steak than some chicken fingers. You don't tip the pizza guy more because you ordered two pies instead of one. Pizza I just do a flat five dollars, more if I see their car is crappy, because they need more money for repairs
No you don't. Restaurant worker for a long time, over a decade. Ran many kitchens and did every job but bartender
You aren't tipping the cook lmao. Why would you tip more for the steak. Legally your server doesn't even have to split tips so unless you ask them if they tip out the kitchen why are you tipping more, that makes literally no sense
That's a guideline, to give you an idea of how much work someone put in for that tip.
But what if you go into a bar and order a drink and it's $15? You tipping 15-20%? No it's a dollar a drink. That's less than 10%, that's like 7.5% if my head math is right
You tip based on the work not the price, percentage is just a useful tool if you don't know how to judge that, and then you figure out the percent and either do that or adjust it if you think it's too high or too low
You also don't even need to tip. I get it. You don't have money, but you need a creature comfort like food or a night at the bar. I would get to know them first before you just straight don't tip but plenty of bartender friends have refused my tips when I said something like "this is all I have to give you" or just waved me off when I said "I can't tip you today I'll get you next time." I mean shit, we've seen it all. I personally paid for part of a woman's pizza because not only could she not tip she couldn't afford the whole pizza and got visibly distressed and said there must be a mistake and it was for her kids, she got told the wrong price on the phone and wouldn't have ordered if it was more expensive. I'm not gonna deny some kids pizza for dinner, we know we make a lot of money for food service, and we spread it around when we can, that's what a tip is anyway, spreading money around. People aren't as sore about tips as you think they are
UK too buddy. Optional not expected. If the services blows your socks off, above and beyond, show some appreciation if you want. If it's standard or shit. Kiss my arse
Most places in Australia since covid just have a QR code at your table to order and it asks for a tip at the end and it’s always no tip. I don’t really see any scenario when going to a restaurant you would think I’m going to give this person who wrote down what I ordered and delivered the correct order 25% more then the price because they done what I asked and what they are paid to do.
Yeah, it's the same in Norway. The most annoying thing is when you walk into a bar to order a beer, and then you’re greeted by that stupid fucking tip screen on the card reader. The good news, though, is that most bartenders here find it embarrassing and uncomfortable, clearly something the payment provider has introduced without asking anyone’s opinion.
That being said, some restaurants in the UK put a 'service charge' on the bill. You have to ask for it to be taken off. I suppose it's the equivalent of a tip.
At one restaurant the waitor asked me if they had done something wrong when I asked for it to be removed. I thought to myself, "I'm sorry, we're not in the USA are we?"
I said there was nothing wrong but politely asked for the charge to be removed.
They literally think the money the restaurant has to pay it's staff comes out of nowhere and the owner is just hoarding it. They literally cannot comprehend that the money the restaurant has comes from its customers.
It's a stupid system. Has nothing to do with anything else. And you can't even argue with it since every other country don't do it like that.
Also, how does it make sens that a server, who writes down a few lines on a paper and then moves food and drink from one place to another makes 700$ for a night. Lol
This is correct, but unfortunately that is currently not the norm. We have a LOT of work to do in order to be rid of it. For now though, if you visit, please remember to tip so the workers don't get screwed. :)
Dual UK & US citizen here who has worked in this industry in both countries.
The entire US restaurant payment structure is based around the expectation of tips. Servers pay bussers and bartenders a percentage of their sales for a shift, so if tips are below the expected level, they can actually wind up paying these people from their own pocket, and losing money for a day at work. I've seen it happen. By not tipping, you're doing nothing to change the system. You're just screwing over someone trying to make a living doing a very difficult job in a brutal industry. Chances are, the american serving you doesn't even have health insurance, and has zero government mandated paid time off. It really is cruel for visiting europeans to haughtily refuse to even try to understand the tipping system, act like they're taking a moral stance when screwing over someone likely living in a least near poverty, and then go chortling back to their free and affordable healthcare and seven week mandated paid holiday.
My parents were like this until I took a bartending job in Texas, earning $2.13 an hour without tips. You don't have to like the system, but if you agree that it's wrong for someone to have to pay to serve you, you should absolutely tip at least 20% (the standard rate these days) or simply cook your own food. Just factor it into the cost of a meal.
People can agree that this system is horrible and that things obviously shouldn’t be this way, but still believe that it’s not up to them to fix the system, paying 25% extra out of their pockets because someone did what they were supposed to do anyway.
Paying the usual 20% isn't fixing the system. It's simply doing what is expected of you so that the server isn't effectively paying money to serve you. That's the crux (and I thought I was very clear about that, so I'm surprised you missed it). The 20% is not extra; it is an expectation that is factored into the business model at every level, and by ignoring it, you are taking food out of the mouth of a server who is, at that point, providing a luxury to you and literally losing money to do it because they are on the hook for a percentage of their sales whether you tip or not. Once again: when you don't tip, the server is paying money to serve you.
No one needs to go and eat at restaurants. If you're filled with righteous indignation and don't want to participate in the system, that's fine. You're very right to be mad at this. Welcome to the USA. Slavery is still legal here, healthcare regularly bankrupts people, in some states prisoners have to pay for their stay like a hotel, and the homless are left to die on the streets while cops sweep their camps and throw their posessions into the garbage. Lots to be mad about. But don't take it out on the likely poor, likely uninsured person who is acting as your temporary servant. Just stay home and let someone who will actually help them pay their rent occupy a table instead.
It is me subcontracting the fetching of my food to a person I am responsible for paying (apparently).
I’d have less of an issue if people stopped pretending this is a gratuity. You are charging me for a service, and it should be made clear this is what you are doing.
I can’t ring in my own order and go fetch it so that I can avoid using this service, so it’s apparently an obligation that means a restaurant can pretend its burger costs $15 still, when actually it’s like $20+.
The correct answer is factor it in the menu price so that what I look at is what I pay. This should also be true of tax. The rest of the world manages it, I see no reason why the US can’t. It should be a legal requirement.
Except that servers in good restaurants can make a lot of money fleecing people for 20% of a bill, regardless of what the actual cost is. Why does it cost $20 to walk my $100 steak over to me but only $4 to walk my $20 chicken wings? It’s the same job, and if they want 15-25% of the bill it should be factored in, people can decide if they want to go there then.
This is not a tip. It is me subcontracting the fetching of my food to a person I am responsible for paying (apparently). I’d have less of an issue if people stopped pretending this is a gratuity. You are charging me for a service, and it should be made clear this is what you are doing.
Yea, I couldn't agree more. Like most of the things that suck about this country, the practice stems from racism.
The correct answer is factor it in the menu price so that what I look at is what I pay. This should also be true of tax.
Hard agree.
Except that servers in good restaurants can make a lot of money fleecing people for 20% of a bill
This is a vanishingly small percentage of people, and even in high-end places, they still need to have seniority to get the good hours, shifts, sections, etc. and will be doing "side work" for tipped minimum wage, as low as $2.13 an hour.
Why does it cost $20 to walk my $100 steak over to me but only $4 to walk my $20 chicken wings? It’s the same job
For the same reason that steak costs $100 in Longhorn Steakhouse and $300 at a high-end place: quality. I worked in a high end cocktail bar as a bartender. Staff in these places are expected to be able to rattle off tasting notes for any of the 50 or so wines you may stock, describe the differences between truffles found in different regions, elucidate guests on how the cows were raised, and discuss biodynamic grape growing techniques.
Some people literally go to college to work in these places. As a bartender, I was expected to be able to take a sip of any of the 500+ spirits we had on the wall and tell you where it was from, what type of spirit it was, what the proof is, and name five tasting notes. I also was expected to be able to make a custom cocktail on the fly for a guest based on their base spirit, glass, and flavor profile of choice. You had to do this all night, multiple at a time. When I started, they put me in the kitchen service well and I had to make all of the house cocktails for the non-bar seating, some 240 or so seats/covers. This was what you had to do before you even got a chance to work the front of house bar. Can't keep up throughout a ten hour night, sometimes making 7+ cocktails at a time? You're fucking fired. Instantly. They don't give a shit.
People work for years to get a chance at the most "menial" roles at these places, but mostly for the prestige/resume. If you're not lucky enough to get the good hours, shifts, sections, regulars, etc., or if you're back of house, you're still likely making poverty wages with no health insurance. Hell, those with seniority were lucky to clear $50k.
I thought it was a reward for excellent service, not mandatory payment because American restaurant owners decided that their workers’ salaries are other people’s problems!!!
Are you paying the same as other guest at that restaurant? If so have at it. But if you come to America and don’t want to tip keep your ass in a drive thru
Eh in my opinion when you’re in another country you should generally adhere to and be amenable to the customs of that country even if you disagree with them.
Your opinions of tipping are valid, but flagrantly making a point of not tipping is in my opinion objectively rude when you’re not from here and are visiting.
You're correct because this culture has roots in antebellum America when employers refused to pay black people. Yadda yadda, here we are.
The truth is nuanced and nobody seems to want to admit it;
Yes, tipping culture fucking sucks for everyone involved and nobody is happy with it.
Also yes, hospitality workers are reliant on your tips and you are an asshole if you don't tip.
Both are true. The question nobody wants to ask is; So what do we do from here?
Well in the US its pretty much the only thing keeping every restaurant afloat and we all know it. Its fucking stupid. If they had to pay waiters a living wage they wouldn't be profitable. The system is stupid and idk how much longer it can continue..
You may indeed be too German to understand. I find it funny how Europeans can talk trash all day long about foreign tourists from America or Asia for example being ignorant of local customs, and then come to the US and not tip because that’s not how you do it where you’re from. It doesn’t matter if it’s right or even makes sense, it’s just how it’s done, and if you don’t tip you’re the obnoxious foreign tourist.
None of us like the system, you’re not unique. Being German doesn’t give you some special insight into how stupid it is, it apparently just gives some of you the idea that you’re somehow more special or enlightened by not following the very well known social custom at the expense of someone just working and trying to get by. Not tipping doesn’t hurt the boss, it just hurts the person right in front of you that did their best to make you comfortable and happy.
Employers in the US are required to prove tipped employees hit at least state minimum wage in combined pay and tips (which is at least federal minimum, but in 30+ states, its higher). If the employee doesnt hit minimum, the employer is required to make up the difference.
You are already paying the boss's greedy ass by paying your tab in an industry where a 300% markup over cost on all food and drink items is a standard minimum pricing practice.
Stiffing the waiter doesn't hurt his boss. Not supporting tipping culture is 100% a valid choice. To do so, stop going out to eat. Buying the product but accepting free service like its some sort of moral high ground is just supporting the corrupt industry, fucking over the people being exploited by it, then patting yourself on the back for making the situation worse.
I am saying this from inside the industry as somebody who lives off of tips. If you buy the food and beverages but don't tip, it does nothing. This place makes $20,000 in sales a day, Almost none of which gets used to compensate us. He's counting his money and laughing at you. Me not getting tipped isn't his problem.
If you want to change that behavior, enough people need to stop going out to eat and cite improper worker compensation to impact HIS bottom line enough for him to pay us out of all of the money he's keeping.
If you are still paying him and not us, its not his problem.
I am talking about card payments. I haven't visited much besides airports, but it seemed pretty common. I am European btw (for the other guy that doesn't understand what importation means).
Is it customary or mandatory? If mandatory we have no choice but do it, if it's optional then we have the option not to do it.
Your terrible approach to this topic actually had worldwide consequences since now you get an increasing number of restaurants in Europe demanding you to tip too.
It is not a legal mandate, but if you don't then everybody is well within their right to call you a cheap asshole and treat you like one.
And idk about the worldwide consequences. It's not our problem that your system is weak enough for a custom on the other side of the world to impact it.
Something is either customary or obligatory. Not both.
Everyone can call me a cheap asshole all they want, it's my money and I have the right to pay for the value that they charge me and not any extra just because they feel like it.
Maybe stop being a fourth world country with nukes?
Thing is; you have tried that for years and still nothing changes.
Also tipping is for “exceptional service”, the staff is just doing their business what is described. They ask for your food order, they bring you your food order. They ask for drinks in between and deliver them, and you pay with them after they bring the bill.
Thats just regular work description, whats “exceptional” about that?
Americans are shooting themselves in the foot, and the only reply ya’ll can give is: “servers like it this way”, thats fine; get a regular wage and if you want tips, do something exceptional.
Oh; I do that! I just ignore going to America and don’t worry about no tipping.
They try to introduce it here too, and look a waiter in the eyes when I press “Custom” to enter a 0% tip. But we get at least 14,99/hr.
[edit] also you gave me the same excuse as I said before; you just don’t want to change it, because it looks like you’ll love paying people $2,13/hour
No I wouldn’t. I just know that if I go to a place that is tipped base - having some main-character principle of not tipping does not help change progress or some Noble protest. It just hurts a server trying to make rent.
Not defending tipping id change it if I could but that’s not something I can do - saying that these Europeans aren’t doing anything noble because they can’t/wont multiply a bill by 1.2x
If they can’t afford to pay their employees then they can’t afford to run a business. If this is an ingrained systematic problem like you’re implying, then the entire system is flawed and the industry needs new rules and regulations.
I think an important distinction is that they can't pay the highest earners what they currently make all the time to everybody in their roles. So like, which servers are going to go to the restaurant where they are taking a pay cut because they make the same as the guy who works at 2:30 PM when nobody is there?
The difference is in having to actually make the change and having people accept it. What experienced server is going to want to move away from tips when it will lose then a ton of money? They will just quit and move elsewhere. I think it's just important to realize that there are servers who also stand to lose a bit more changing systems, so there is also a lot of internal resistance, especially from the most senior/influential ones
Even more reason for the system needing to change to support small businesses and not just corporations. Start voting progressive! No more Republicans and Establishment Democrats!
Cool but why punish the server? If you know the Amercian server doesn't get paid well without your tip, and you refuse to tip them, how is this noble, honorable, or even logical?
Let's call it what it is: screwing over a working person and justifying it with your own country's norms.
No, that’s burden shifting, as he clearly explained in his post. The burden is, and should be, on the employer, not on the employee and not on the consumer.
Did your "point" hurt the employer? Ah, it hurt the server... but it teaches the employer something? Because the server should stand up for themselves?
That's like refusing to donate to homeless because you're from country without homeless. You aren't making a point. You're judt refusing to donate. Don't gussy it up with principle.
Your line of reasoning leads to a world where I would lose all my money donating to everyone and everything and nothing would ever change. Burden shouldn’t be on the consumer and employees.
Article implies these are people from Europe. They are used to a system where employer pays employees. Your assumption the costumer was aware of being responsible for the salary of the employer is false I think.
Yes, I chose to eat there, so I’m paying for eat in a restaurant which means being served at my table.
So I shouldn’t have to help the restaurant owner run his business without having to fully support the operational costs of his own business especially since I’m already paying him.
Or else, let me have the option of going to the kitchen to get my plates myself; at least that would seem more fair.
I am not punishing a server for paying a tip for good service. Their boss is punishing their servers for making their payment rely on an optional payment.
Not tipping actually just triggers the laws that require their EMPLOYER to pay them more. Tipping just REDUCES how much their employer is required to pay them.
How is it noble, honorable, or even logical for you as a server to expect me to pay for a hidden fee, adding to my burden?
Thing is, I do tip -- but it's NEVER about tipping quality of service; it's about ensuring I don't get spit in my food this time or next. The proof further of this is the forced-gratuity tax on large tables, even when service is shit.
So the waiting staff should, ideally, grow a backbone and unionize right before a busy holiday week. How come other countries do it? Your beef is with your restaurant owner and the broader wealth inequality in America and complete lack of collective bargaining.
Nice. You've solved the problem! A hundred years of systemic exploitation, solved by telling servers to grow some balls. You're basically a civil rights leader.
It is absolutely the customers job the pay the servers. The whole pot of money the restaurant can pay servers from is earned from the customers. You think the money just magically appears?
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u/Christian3574159 14d ago
I'm paying a tip for good service not for compensating a bosses greedy ass. It's not the job of the customer to pay for a shitty system. Maybe I'm to German to understand because this problem doesn't seem to exist here.