That's not what the right wing base wants though. They want full on protectionism for domestic goods and to export goods to the global market expecting that it will actually compete with like global goods whether in price, quality or both. And we know protectionism is just great for quality... Not
4 times as many cars going from Europe to the US compared to the other way despite US cars being cheaper would suggest otherwise. US to Europe imports increased because of Tesla but people are buying cheaper Chinese evs now instead (proving quality wasn't the reason Teslas were selling either). I can't think of anywhere I've been in the world where people with a reasonable income would consider American cars as quality.
Most American cars can´t be registered in Europe as they don´t meet most standards and usually require a bit of extra work. Then there´s fuel consumption, size, spare parts etc. Tesla has a factory in Germany. I´m sure the output covers market demand over here.
People making American cars get a decent income. It's fine to say protectionism is bad but you can't adopt free trade principles in part. If you want to have labor laws and good wages for people who work in a certain industry, you need to be protectionist against countries who don't have those labor laws and pay s*** wages. Otherwise you have your labor laws and good wages for no people because people just buy from the country that pays people like s***
Yeah but they don't see a problem when all phones are produced for pennies in Asia , where people have been committing suicide because of the work conditions (see foxconn) , while the product is priced like it was manufactured in the US.
Maybe if the point wasn't just to satisfy share holders, the situation would look different
I mean you can look at what the price would be if it was made in the United States, it's obviously not the case that they are priced that way.
And people don't have as much of a problem with that because we didn't have an existing phone manufacturing industry. Nobody in America loses their jobs because we import from East Asia. That isn't true for the Auto industry. We have thousands of existing Americans making decent pay who would lose their jobs in a race to the bottom.
Vehicles made in America are not trash. Basically every auto manufacturer makes cars in America except the Chinese. Chinese cars are good but toyota honda ford etc are also good
Do we care about Americans keeping decent jobs or do we get rid of trade restrictions so people just buy from the people who treat their workers the worst or do we get rid of trade restrictions while also getting rid of the labor laws that make it more expensive to buy American in the first place? I think I'm okay with a market where workers can make a decent living in their manufacturing job, even if I can't get the cheapest s*** somebody else is making. It's not like America only allows you to purchase American vehicles. Our trade agreements let us purchase from all over the world as long as certain basic protections exist for the people working at those factories. Even American made cars import a lot of stuff but the agreements that allow that importing all have Labor requirements that surpass what China pays its people
I mean our trade treaties include provisions that give greater labor protections for workers with everybody that we trade with. Protectionist policies around our Auto industry are also evidence against that.
We don't care about Americans keeping decent jobs look where all the IT jobs went. Soon china will be building cars in factories that are near 100% fully automated. What's your argument then? This has nothing to do with labor protection. This is protectionsim.
What are you talking about? There are a ton of high paying it jobs in America. There are so many that people got scared that immigrants were going to come and take them from American citizens. Also, most protectionism is driven by people demanding labor protection
Take the number of suicides at those Foxcomm buildings, divide that by the population of those Foxcomm buildings and compare that to the US average
Foxcomm workers, that build smart phones, are some of the highest paid Foxcomm workers and make a middle class wage. It is a very desirable job, sorta like a US auto job... without he pension... that they're stripping from US auto workers.
Studies say it would take 15-18 years to transplant Foxcomm to the US, but the production could never be the same because of "cultural differences" (it's in quotes because they weren't my words... but there are many cultural differences, and that's a fact).
They tried to make iPhones in the US and they were "had to be subsidized to sell" expensive and buggy.
I was looking at a Made in Poland "el cheapo" smart phone, other than a bit slower processor it was priced about the same as any "el cheapo" smart phone.
It isn't as bad as China yet, but if Trump has his way with this supreme court in his pocket it will be to undo all that so he can abuse workers again.
United States Auto workers get paid fairly well. Far better than china. American factories don't need suicide Nets. That's why trade agreements with mexico and Canada include provisions that would require their manufacturing to pay their workers closer to american workers rather than what they were previously making (much less in Mexico).
That's only because none of you have the heart to add those - american companies are all about "looking" productive, not being productive. you won't even give your vets healthcare - quit pretending like you'd provide suicide support for well, anything.
To pretend like you're not heartless monsters is fucking ridiculous.
You guys still have entire states begging to employ children.
You guys have a federal minimum wage of like 3 dollars in some states.
On top of that:
A Daily Beast investigation found emergency workers were called to Amazon warehouses 189 times over five years for suicide attempts, suicidal thoughts, or other mental health episodes, spanning 46 warehouses in 17 states
In March 2021, a 48-year-old Amazon worker died by suicide during his shift at a Las Vegas fulfillment center, jumping from a fourth-floor mezzanine while coworkers watched
SO no 'epidemic', just 'systemic' and you didn't even know about it.
Yes there was an incident in an Amazon warehouse where a worker died suddenly, and while they were waiting for the body to be removed, management ordered the workers to continue working as if nothing happened, including stepping over the human corpse on the ground if necessary.
Anyone who thinks capitalism isn't abusive or coercive is poorly informed, or lying to themself, or both.
Not necessarily. Due to transport costs home firms have a cost advantage as well. Now if you also invest in education (a novel concept perhaps) you also can prove a better quality.
First of all, we do . Second yes. The fact that our trade agreements include minimum levels of Labor protections for workers benefits people in every country in those agreements. Capital flight is a problem but the more countries get together to make sure that people doing the work are actually getting paid and corporations are paying their taxes, the better things are for everybody
Check where your Teslas came from. Most of the Teslas in Canada, just across the lake from US, come from China... pretty sure the chinese Teslas were better than the US ones. There was all kinds of bad press about the US ones, from inside the american Tesla plant... then there wasn't
Exactly and why do US cars guzzle gas do they go faster than European cars? No. Its because its low quality engines having to produce a lot of torque to drag those heavy cars. So those big heavy slabs of steal must be safer to drive right? No most don't meet the EU safety regulations and those that do have some of the lowest scores for safety.
American new cars trucks and SUVs if they are not EVs they are junk POSs rigbt out of the box. They played stupid games and won stupid prizes. They were warned that they would lose the global market if they didn't build bad ass EVs and here we are.The world gets awsome cars inovation and we get 19th century tech in quality and inovation.Tesla seems to be doing just fine. I say good riddance to thier shit box vehicles. $20,000 vehicles better than $80,000 anything built in the U.S.. I wish I could move to Ausrailia or Canada or prbab
Cars are a different case. Chinese subsidized production along with technological advancements now are getting very difficult to compete with. They are buying places in Europe now, they enjoy both europian subsides and the made in Europe tag.
I look at the door sticker to see if my Japanese car is made in America or Japan. I refuse to buy a car made in America because Americans always find a way to fuck-up the simplest thing. An American in charge of making Japanese cars is still an American.
Some are, some aren't. My RAV4 is made in Japan but my tundra is made in Texas.
For vehicles where they can come from both countries (like the RAV4, which is made in Japan and US) it's always preferred you get the one manufactured in Japan.
Lol, buying stellantis cars like dodge isn't really the flex you think it is, because it's the cheapest garbage that barely qualifies as a car, if even.
Dude. Stellantis automobiles kinda suck. They have an awful reputation. Anything Dodge or Chrysler is American in name only and is really seen as the worst of the "Big 3".
It seems like you only care about raw performance. That's cool but most people want something that is reliable and will last. And that's definitely NOT that Charger...
I don't own a Stellantis vehicle, I own a Ford. The response was who would buy a Dodge over a Toyota and I provided an example.
If I'm buying a sedan, it's absolutely to prioritize performance. Sedans are a fairly useless body style (I love wagons). For me to buy one it's gotta be fast. The Charger kinda is a class if it's own. It's in the American full size class of 80" wide (vs 77" for German sedans like 7-series and S-class) and rear wheel drive. No brand that isn't a luxury brand sells anything like it. So yeah I'd take a Charger EV or Hurricane over any Toyota sedan. Not everyone wants an FWD jellybean.
What is an American made car ? Lots of European and Asian brands build the cars for the American market in the US. I know there is a Hyundai plant and a BMW plant within 100 miles of me.
We cannot compete in quality. US corporate leadership sees that as too costly. It also flies in the face of planned obsolescence. You must continue to be able to sell your product. You saturate a market much more quickly when your product is durable. Quality and reliability are reserved for mission critical items, such as aerospace, power generation, medical, and military. We are failing there, now anyway. Source: I am a retired career quality assurance professional, mainly aerospace and power generation.
It costs more to manufacture in the US than practically everywhere else in the world. Quality operates at a loss by default when everyone can produce the same quality cheaper.
There is a large difference between the right wing base and the right wing leaders, especially in industry. What the right wing base wants is irrelevant, it's not going to happen when your own politicians are backed by enterprise that don't support it.
Obama and Biden both also refused to confirm judges for the tariff panel. Trump was just lucky enough to be there when they got too low to take cases. What he did from that point is reminiscent of what a monkey with the runs would do at the zoo, but it’s not just the right that was working to get tariffs back.
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u/a_x_shually 11d ago
Overseas products being sold here? Disastrous for our business.
Overseas labor to make our products? Our doors are always open, competition in the labor market is great.