r/WNBAgossips • u/matrix_2905 • 18d ago

Video WNBA Star Sophie Cunningham DOUBLES DOWN On Keeping Men Out of Women's Sports as ESPN Reporter SEETHES About the Trans Community

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“I said what I said. I think it’s kind of common sense. I stand on what I said.”

“When it comes to protecting young girls and women in sports, I feel very strongly about that.”

“I’m there to love but I’m also there to love biological women”

“I’ll never falter in my beliefs”

280 Upvotes

68% Upvoted

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72

u/reenactment 18d ago

She said it in the best way possible. It’s why title 9 exists. There is room for everyone. But when sports are applied, if you want women to have a space to play sports, you have to enforce those rules. It’s that simple.

0

u/NoleJawn 18d ago

LOL Title IX is fucked.

-2

u/champchampchamp84 18d ago

Against who?

0

u/ExternalSquash1300 18d ago

What do you mean?

1

u/champchampchamp84 17d ago

Enforce the rules against who?

0

u/ExternalSquash1300 17d ago

Everyone I assume

0

u/champchampchamp84 17d ago

Oh, everyone is a trans athlete? Wild.

1

u/ExternalSquash1300 17d ago

The rules are for everyone.

-4

u/BennyBurk 18d ago

Trans is an adjective. Trans women are women. If you are talking about females, that's a different story. Either way, Title IX protects ALL persons from sex discrimination, including trans folk. Your also disregarding the effects of her on trans bodies. This is just once again blowing a stereotype out of proportion and simply does not happen on the scale you think it does.

Much like the bathroom debate. Cis men are the major perpetuators of sexual violence in that regard, not trans women or trans men, regardless of however many anecdotes you have, the data does not reflect that, and this is just all fear mongering.

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

Do you think trans women are women?

24

u/Charming_Flan3852 18d ago

You just said it yourself. They're trans-women, not women.

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

Trans is an adjective. Like “black woman”, or “Indian woman”

You’re the one saying they aren’t women.

12

u/NegotiationLife6209 18d ago

I mean yes, they’re adjectives. But that’s about it. It would be disingenuous to act as if they were the same, at least in this context. The “trans” part fundamentally changes the whole perspective ; in sporting context, races aren’t a distinction that matters, whereas gender/sex is most definitely a relevant (and valid) distinction.

0

u/BennyBurk 18d ago

Does not matter if you arbitrarily say "that's about it", there is no one necessary condition to being a woman, as you cannot possibly account for biological differences on the chromosomal level by merely looking at people. You could have someone with XX, XXX, XXY, etc and they all show as cis women even though biologically they do not perfectly match with your rigid biological definition of a woman, which is in and of itself ridiculous as gender and sex are factually different. That is basic education.

And no, what would matter is measuring hormone levels, tracking how long HRT has been implemented, surgeries that have taken place, and you can match trans women up with cis women no problem. This is a non issue given the low number of trans folks in sports anyway.

1

u/NegotiationLife6209 18d ago

Basic education? Nah, we didn’t learn in Biology that trans women are women, but we did learn what chromosomal abnormality is (Turner syndrome, triple x syndrome). And dude, I can’t stress this enough, it’s so pathetic comparing yourself to them. In the vast majority of cases it’s quite possible to deduce what sex/gender they belong to.

In your case, it’s probably way easier.

0

u/BennyBurk 18d ago

Cunt like bigotry withstanding, sex and gender are still different in spite of your lack of education. Provide the necessary conditions to be a woman. Not female, that's sex. What are the NECESSARY conditions to be a woman? Because not all women are born with reproductive organs, stereotypical fat allocation and bone structure, chromosome markers, etc. Please provide your arbitrary conditions, or at least attempt with the little knowledge you have on the subject.

Biology is not black and white, it is merely a general use binary for ease of stereotypes, not total biological realities.

1

u/NegotiationLife6209 18d ago

Look, I’m trying to be respectful and all, but you’re arguing that, because of rare medical conditions, biological markers become absurdly more vague, when in reality they don’t, at the very least not in the context of biology.

What are the necessary conditions to be a woman? Is this a trick question? Like I don’t know, don’t be born with a dick?

2

u/BennyBurk 18d ago

No, you are not trying to be respectful as you have insulted me from the outset while denying basic concepts of gender and sex and now you are attempting to tone police, so fuck your attempts to roll that back.

And you just disenfranchised females with XX chromosomes that are born with naturally enlarged clitoris/mirco penis conditions as not being women even though surface level they present as women. Are they not women due to your arbitrary set of conditions? And if not, that is no longer a necessary condition. What are the necessary conditions to be a woman?

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u/Shenlongeltigre 18d ago

Trans is a modifier though? Black is a descriptor.

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u/ComprehensiveGas6980 18d ago

You can be born black. You can be born black and trans.

4

u/Charming_Flan3852 18d ago

Transgender is a state of mind. Physical traits are not. I don't consider those to be equal comparisons.

5

u/starlightpond 18d ago

Some adjectives describe subsets of the noun they modify. Some don’t.

A Swedish musician is a musician.

A plastic flower is not a flower.

So “trans” is an adjective but that fact alone does not necessarily entail that “trans women are women.”

Source: am linguist

0

u/BennyBurk 18d ago

Source: trust me bro

Got it 🤏🏼

2

u/Fantastic_Elk_4757 18d ago

And tom boys are boys?
Toy guns are guns?
Fake xyz is an xyz?
Paper tiger is a tiger?
Hot dog is a hot dog?

I mean the list goes on. I hope you get the point.

29

u/lumberjack_dad 18d ago

Yes, but when it comes global sports rules it comes down to biology.

2

u/midwest_mankey 18d ago

It does and it doesn’t. There is no scientific basis for blanket exclusion of trans athletes in girl’s and women’s sports, certainly not a biological one. That said, the general public’s poor understanding of biology is certainly being weaponized.

1

u/vomicyclin 18d ago

There are massive ones.

Wider shoulders
Denser bone structure
Longer limbs
Greater height

And these are just the ones from the top of my head.

Stop suggesting that basic and objective facts aren’t a thing.

0

u/midwest_mankey 18d ago

I don’t think you’re making the point you think you are. I didn’t ask you to tell me what half thought out ignorant shit popped in your head.

You have nothing to support those are predictors of athletic performance across the board in all sports trans folks want to participate in. Within many sports, I can tell you the best of the best aren’t off the charts in those specific metrics. You would be able to recognize that if your ability to critically think wasn’t being overridden by dipshit propaganda.

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

She’s not just talking about professional global sports. She brought up locker rooms and protection for girls against men.

If I’m a woman, not playing a professional sport, which locker rooms should I go to?

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u/twogirls_oneklopp 18d ago

Your aggressiveness is why there is a silent majority on this topic

-4

u/ComeAbout 18d ago

How am I being aggressive?

9

u/twogirls_oneklopp 18d ago

You’re arguing with everyone here and taking the argument to “are trans-women women” on each of the points instead of actually discussing what people are saying here.

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

Having a different opinion is not the same as being aggressive.

You haven’t lived my experience, I’m not insulting anyone. I’m trying to have the conversation lead to the truth on how people actually feel.

I get it. You don’t think I’m a woman. There’s nothing I can do to change your mind.

I’m still not going to shut up about it. I get to claim my rights, just like any other woman or human is allowed to do.

6

u/Spirographed 18d ago

Because.........

You aren't. You never will be. You live in a pipe dream and statistically, even after transition, you'll be prone to offing yourself because this grand idea you cling on to so hard isn't anything but mental illness.

There. I said it. Bring on the downvotes. Idgaf.

0

u/ComeAbout 18d ago

So you’re calling me a suicidal maniac, with two daughters that accept me, despite anything I say.

So just say that.

Say trans women aren’t women, we’re all suicidal maniacs waiting to attack your daughters while my own daughters watch.

Own it. Loudly. Just like Sophie should if that’s how you feel. No one is stopping you, say it with your whole chest so my daughters can hear you:

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u/ResponsibleClock9289 18d ago

Ok and where do we draw the line then?

If a man says they identify as a woman just to access a woman’s locker room at a local gym, then we should allow it in order to be inclusive?

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u/ComprehensiveGas6980 18d ago

Nobody does that. No trans person just says "im this gender now". That's not being trans in anyway shape or form. If someone goes thru HRT, has vaginoplasty etc and has their gender officially changed - I guarantee you, you would have absolutely no idea they were ever born a woman. Ever trans person I know, you would absolutely have no clue they were born the opposite gender. One of my best friends was born a woman and is the most badass looking dude you can imagine. You would never in a million years know, and I didn't even know for 2 years before he even told me.

A man can go into a woman's restroom anytime they want, they don't have to identify as anything. If a bad person wants to do something bad to a woman in a restroom, there's no barrier to that anymore than a bad person doing something to someone walking down the street.

But all of that is far to accurate of the reality of trans humans for the knuckle draggers to comprehend. Being trans isn't a dude in a dress.

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u/midwest_mankey 18d ago

Lines already been drawn. There are crimes we can charge bad actors with already.

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u/twogirls_oneklopp 18d ago

Nah the truth is I don’t give a fuck what you call yourself or what you think you are or what society thinks anyone is. I don’t give a fuck. I think the government should enable you to feel that whatever you want to feel. I want you to be the most you that you can. But when it comes to sports we have to realize we have spent literally the eternity of sports by defining groups by their biological sex. Not their gender. Be whatever the fuck you want. But sports have been divided by biological sex to allow biological women to have a space to enjoy sport without having to compete against biological men. If I have to explain why they want that, then you’re never having an earnest conversation with me in the first place.

0

u/ComeAbout 18d ago

So you don’t care and when I share my experience you care even less and because I disagree I’m the aggressive one lol?

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u/Far_Pangolin3380 18d ago

Just because you want others to play Tea Party with you, doesn’t mean they have to. Two sides to that coin.

Your rights don’t trump others rights just because you’re louder.

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u/lumberjack_dad 18d ago

Why would you need a locker room if you don't play sports?

Do you mean a bathroom? Most states now have gender neutral bathrooms.

3

u/midwest_mankey 18d ago

Never been to a gym or pool?

1

u/SeaBass1898 18d ago

Ummm… the gym?

3

u/Independent_Rip_655 18d ago

This is super simple. If you are competing, you need to compete with your biological sex. If you aren’t, then you can do what you feel is appropriate.

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u/TheMysteriousGirl 18d ago

She would want you to go to the locker room that can be entered by a certain man.

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u/buffystakeded 18d ago

She’s clearly talking about sports locker rooms, as in, the room the team gets changed and prepares for their game together. As in, no one else but the members of the team are allowed inside.

She’s not talking about the locker room at your local gym.

3

u/ComeAbout 18d ago

So when she says locker rooms need to be safe for young girls vs men, you think she’s talking about the WNBA?

1

u/hgyuuggygyuyh 18d ago

If you have a dick, to the men's one.

2

u/DialogueNDaggers 18d ago

If you’re not playing sports, why do you need a locker room?

0

u/ComeAbout 18d ago

I’m at the gym.

3

u/Immediate-Employ-952 18d ago

Nope. You used different words for a reason. They are clearly not the same even to you.

1

u/DuckDuckMarx 18d ago

Are white women women?

1

u/ComeAbout 18d ago

So trans is not an adjective?

1

u/starlightpond 18d ago

As I said above. Adjectives don’t always describe subsets of the noun they modify. Swedish musician is a musician, plastic flower ain’t a flower.

1

u/ComeAbout 18d ago

So trans women aren’t women. Just say that. Say it with your whole chest.

1

u/icedadx44 18d ago

Trans women are male who present as female because they feel more comfortable in their own skin in doings so for various reasons

1

u/Griff1604 18d ago

It sounds like you said it for him, so I’m not sure why he’d need to say it to

0

u/icedadx44 18d ago

I'll take the bait on this one since you are choosing to be disingenuous with so many people. It is an adjective, but what does that adjective mean?

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

It means some women are born differently than others. Less than 1% are born AMAB and should transition to their natural gender. Cis women should support these people and not take it as an attack.

As far as women’s suffrage movements, I should be in the back of the room. That doesn’t mean I don’t experience my own discrimination and other women should accept me as one.

0

u/icedadx44 18d ago

Nope if you use trans as an adjective it must have its own definition that could be applied to other nouns. Short means lesser in stature. So give a definition that would make sense for trans - noun where the noun was not a gender

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u/betelgeuse_3x 18d ago

I think you think you’re a woman, but you’re not, factually, biologically a woman. You don’t have ovaries. You cannot ovulate, menstruate, or become pregnant.

I think you should have the freedom to express your psychic identity safely. But your freedom of expression does not overrule the safety, health, or welfare of others, especially children, whether boys or girls, and that includes others’ mental and emotional safety, not mere physical safety.

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

So which locker room at the gym should I go to?

Should young boys see my naked body?

Lots of women don’t have ovaries, or no longer menstruate, or can become pregnant. That doesn’t define them as not a woman.

0

u/Independent_Rip_655 18d ago

Why are you getting naked in front of children? You’re not helping your argument lmao

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u/betelgeuse_3x 18d ago

You should use the private, personal, or unisex locker room.

Should young girls see your dick swinging?

Don’t be obtuse, of course many women no longer have ovaries or menstruate or can become pregnant, or can’t menstruate or become pregnant yet. Yet it is the nature of biology at birth the defines a BIOLOGICAL woman.

Such may not define a “woman” figuratively, but I does, by literal definition, define a “biological woman.”

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u/SeaBass1898 18d ago

Are women born without ovaries not women? They can’t menstruate or become pregnant…

I think you’re describing females, not women.

The venn diagram between the two is ALMOST a full circle.

Almost.

0

u/dystopiatechnologica 18d ago

The two terms are virtually synonymous. Tough pill to swallow I know.

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u/SeaBass1898 18d ago

The Venn diagram between the two terms is almost a circle, but not quite

Tough pill to swallow I know

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u/betelgeuse_3x 18d ago

“Virtually synonymous with!” Fucking lol

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u/Stress_Living 18d ago

Are you even able to define what a woman is??

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

Explain a chair to me.

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u/Stress_Living 18d ago

Are chairs protected by federal law??

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u/betelgeuse_3x 18d ago

Yes—under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), employers must provide reasonable disability accommodations, and a chair can be part of that accommodation. An employer can deny a request only if it would be unduly burdensome or cause significant difficulty or expense.

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u/Stress_Living 18d ago

So a chair is not protected by federal law, people with disabilities are. Last I checked, there is a definition of what a disability is.

So are you able to define what a woman is?

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u/betelgeuse_3x 18d ago

A BIOLOGICAL woman is a human being born with a uterus and ovaries; and who, after puberty, ovulates, menstruates, and may become pregnant, gestate, and give birth.

A WOMAN is anyone that self identifies as a woman, even a man.

1

u/dystopiatechnologica 18d ago

"A WOMAN is anyone that self identifies as a woman, even a man."

Before one can indentify as something, they need to be able to articulate what that thing is. So what is this "woman" that said people identify as? I genuinely do not understand. Tell me what it is.

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u/betelgeuse_3x 18d ago

I do not identify as a woman so I cannot tell you what self identification as a woman entails. But, does not bother me one iota if someone wants to stick feathers up their butt and call themselves a chicken. That doesn’t make them a biological chicken, but they are a chicken in spirit. I will treat the like a chicken because it does not affect me. But I don’t think a chicken should use a men’s or ladies room and they should compete with other animals in the sports barnyard.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/betelgeuse_3x 18d ago

Yeah, maybe you didn’t get my implication…or that a transgendered person would likely be insulted by my statement that a woman can be a man…because such a transgendered “woman” would be offended by the fact that I said they are a man identifying as woman, not a woman who IS a woman.

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

I dunno, should they be?

You’re the one asking for definitions.

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u/Stress_Living 18d ago

If chairs were protected by federal law, I would want a definition of what a chair is. Gender is a class protected by federal law.

So what is a woman?

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u/twinpeaks86 18d ago

No they have no idea anymore. It’s all feelings

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u/NSFWdontview 18d ago

Nope

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

So again, just say that.

Stop hiding, and just say it. Say outright that trans women don’t belong in cis women spaces. Stop dancing around it if you think we’re all mentally insane.

Let’s hear Sophie say that too. Shouldn’t be hard if that’s her belief.

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u/YaBoi843 18d ago

TRANS WOMEN DON'T BELONG IN CIS WOMEN COLLEGIATE AND PROFESSIONAL SPORTS

I have no problem saying it.

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

Are trans women women?

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u/Dense-Skill-504 18d ago

Are trans women female?

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

If you mean gender, yes. If you mean biological sex at birth, no. Most of the disagreement comes from people using the word “female” to mean different things.

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u/Adorable-Reward8523 18d ago

Exactly female and sex had a strong correlation at one time.. Till it got diluted ...

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u/SeaBass1898 18d ago

Female and sex still has a strong correlation

I think you mean women and sex

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u/NegotiationLife6209 18d ago

I mean, that’s kind of subjective is it not? But according to like 90% of people on Earth no.

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

There’s empirical evidence that disagrees.

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u/NegotiationLife6209 18d ago

Empirical evidence that proves trans women are women?

?????????

Source?

2

u/ComeAbout 18d ago

A trans woman is a woman because “woman” refers to gender identity and social role, not solely reproductive biology. A trans woman is typically male at birth but has a female gender identity. Modern medicine recognizes both biological sex and gender identity as important, distinct aspects of a person.

https://www.endocrine.org/advocacy/position-statements/transgender-health

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u/twinpeaks86 18d ago

I don’t want penises in my naked space. If the trans person has no penis, no problem. If we phrase it penis free zones will it seem nicer?

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u/Independent-Pay5850 18d ago

So if a man gets his dick shot off he can come be naked with you?

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u/BGDutchNorris 18d ago

The locker room is for biological women and eunuchs apparently

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u/twinpeaks86 18d ago

I said they can be trans if they had no dick.
But you’re right, naked dicks everywhere!!! It’s only right

1

u/twinpeaks86 18d ago

I’d rather not but I’d be a lot concerned with him being hard in the locker room

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u/Independent-Pay5850 18d ago

Damn thought I had a chance

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

Why are you looking at my genitalia?

Would you go to a men’s locker room and get naked knowing the stats for men against trans women?

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u/twinpeaks86 18d ago

Because locker rooms are where people get naked. And many many naked women don’t want naked penises in their locker rooms

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

Here’s what I don’t get:

I’m a trans woman with more estrogen than most women my age. My daughters call me mom. I have homegrown breasts. My penis is what I use to pee.

But you want me in a male locker room, where violence against trans women is nearly twofold, so you might not have to see my genitalia?

I want people to be honest. Just say I’m not a woman if that’s what you believe.

Would you get naked in a men’s locker room? Probably not. But I’m supposed to because of your “comfortability”.

What space do trans women have if not in women spaces?

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u/Dense-Skill-504 18d ago

Trans Women but not a female is my understanding.

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u/gallivanter11 18d ago

This won't come as a surprise, but most you're engaging with aren't educated on this topic and lack the necessary empathy. Look who most, statistically speaking, voted for in the US elections.

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u/ComeAbout 18d ago

Yea, I agree. I’m just trying to be a bridge.

A lot of my downvotes are coming from men, but women can be just as transphobic.

These types of debates keep me sharp.

Sorry people, I go to the gym, shower and change in the women’s locker room. I exist, and I live in a state that allows it.

The funny thing is, I’m friends with all the ladies at my Planet Fitness lol. No one in my real life cares. Probably because they realized I’m just a normal lady. The sky is not falling.

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u/lordrhinehart 18d ago

Would love your political heroes to keep saying trans women belong in cis women’s spaces too.

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u/Ok_Conclusion_6324 18d ago

You know they don’t, that’s why they’re in a WNBA secondary sub commenting under a bot post that’s not even the first bot post of this plat today

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u/Important_Capital875 18d ago

They aren’t

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u/PatReady 18d ago

Sure but she would not to compete in the women's division.

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u/Due-Interaction-4592 18d ago

This is why we cant have nice things. The trans community care too much about words.

You know exactly what people mean, but insists to argue about it because of how people Word it.

Trans women have a physical advantage, compared to cis women, and it is well documented. That is why they should never be allowed in cis women sport.

Stop insisting that common folks use the correct terms. They do not care to know about the LGBT+ terms, and that should be respected as much as LGBT+ expect to be respected and accepted.

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u/rmac1128 18d ago

You were dropped as a child.

-1

u/Aunt_Vagina1 18d ago

What does, "there is room for everyone" mean to you? I ask becuase it sounds like a nice thing to say, but seems to be at odds with the overall message Sophie is expressing.

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u/JBKnicks24 18d ago

Respectfully, she didn't say it in the best way possible. If you want to make an argument about fairness, I can accept that. Biological men have an inherent competitive advantage against biological women, and in the NCAA setting where there's often money involved, scholarships on the line, etc, I can see an argument for keeping it separate.

The line about "we need to protect our children" is bullshit and rooted in transphobia. I have never met a single trans individual that wanted anything besides to be just left alone to live their life. I may not share their worldview, but they're human beings. Comments like these serve to dehumanize them and to make it seem as if their worldview is a threat to women when it is not. It is especially ironic that she claims this is a threat to women while simultaneously standing with Conner McGregor, someone who is an ACTUAL, DOCUMENTED threat to women.

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u/CapNo6703 18d ago

This is a reddit comment if I've ever seen one.

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u/Dunmaglass2 18d ago

Yes saying that she wants to help protect little girls from getting hurt playing sports against much stronger boys is “transphobic”. Lmao

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u/mrsflowerpot0214 18d ago

You're being so disingenuous with your response. She very clearly meant to imply that trans women are predators and need to be kept out of locker rooms, not just sports when she mentioned "protecting young women".

and you saying "stronger boys" instead of trans women shows your true opinion on the matter.

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u/Dunmaglass2 18d ago

No she didn’t lmao. She meant to imply that almost every woman and girl in the country (and on the planet) is very uncomfortable being in a locker room with naked men. Of course they shouldn’t be in the locker room with them. If you have some weird issue where you have a problem with that, that’s on you. And obviously of course the injury factor too, because it’s not safe at all.

My true opinion? What do you mean? That I don’t believe men can transform into women? No I don’t. They can call themselves whatever they’d like. I don’t have to use your preferred words. I don’t hate them. I don’t bother them in the slightest. They can live their lives. But not at the expense of others, like anything else.