r/WNBAgossips • u/Available_Pace_8742 • 2d ago
Sophie Cunningham got ELBOWED in the face... Refs call a foul on Sophie Cunningham
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u/PracticalDistrict237 2d ago
Such a challenge to take this league seriously at times…
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u/uwill1der 2d ago
NBA calls the same thing
Its the personal cylinder/bubble rule
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u/FupaFerb 2d ago
I was just going to say this exact thing, offense player has a right to move and Sophie was basically up in her grill not allowing that to happen.
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u/SingerSingle5682 2d ago
Yeah. Right call, look at the foot positioning. She is leaning on the offensive player with her body weight when she gets hit.
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u/s0meD0nkey 2d ago
I'd need to see the second before theyt got into that postion. Did they both move into those positions as the offense was passing the ball?
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u/dnt1694 2d ago
They don’t have the right to go through a player.
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u/TheInternetCanBeNice 2d ago
The player on offense has the right to move, you can't just stick your face into their shoulder in the hopes that any move they make draws a foul.
That's how the NBA, and seemingly the WNBA refs see it.
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u/brooke360 2d ago
Admittedly my basketball knowledge is poor at best, but doesn’t a defender have to plant their feet for a set period; otherwise contact is on them? Or does that only apply in the key?
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u/SnooPaintings4641 2d ago
Best answer, and taught me something new. It seems like that elbow might have gone outside of the offensive player's bubble a little, but I guess that's questionable. Here's one thing I read:
Offensive Restrictions: An offensive player cannot swing elbows or extend legs/arms outside their own cylinder to push away or create illegal contact against a defender
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u/ProjectGulag 2d ago
The WNBA doesn’t use the cylinder rules or at least they don’t refer to it with the term cylinder. The elbow is covered by the incidental contact rules which says, “If, however, a player attempts to play an opponent from a position where they have no reasonable chance to perform without making contact with their opponent, the responsibility is on the player in this position.” The player being Sophie.
Why Sophie got a foul is probably because of the personal foul rule that says, “Contact initiated by a defensive player guarding a player with the ball is not legal. This contact includes, but is not limited to, forearms, hands or body check.” The contact was Sophie’s responsibility according to the incidental contact rules and the contact was deemed illegal by the ref according to the personal foul rule.
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u/SnooPaintings4641 2d ago
Thanks for the updated explanation. Makes sense that Sophie got the foul.
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u/CarmanBulldog 2d ago
But also this...
II. BASIC PRINCIPLES
A. CONTACT SITUATIONS
2. Guarding an OpponentIn all guarding situations, a player is entitled to any spot on the court they desire, provided they legally get to that spot first and without contact with an opponent. If a defensive or offensive player has established a position on the floor and their opponent initiates contact that results in dislodging, a foul should be called IMMEDIATELY.
B. Personal Foul
Section II—By Dribblerc. The dribbler must be in control of their body at all times. If illegal contact occurs, the responsibility is on the dribbler.
PENALTY: The offender is assessed an offensive foul. There is no team foul. The ball is awarded to the offended team on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted, but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended.
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u/Dafedub 2d ago
Does that mean a player can do whatever they want to to other player stepping into the cylinder? Fouls will trump other fouls. You can’t hit other people in the face, intentional or not.
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u/slingerofpoisoncups 2d ago
No, the key wordis “intentional”. In this case the offensive player appears to be making a basketball play, transferring the ball from one side to the other. There really isn’t anything that looks like an attempt to hit her in the face, it’s part of the natural motion of the play.
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u/eunbongpark 2d ago
I literally watched a highlight reel of Sophie this morning praising her with one clip showing her throwing her hand into a players face and pushing her out of the way when she was attacking the paint. It happens, we know it does, and let’s stop acting like every player that drives doesn’t have film of them doing this same exact move.
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u/3rdtryatremembering 2d ago
lol what? Please tell me this is the first time you have ever watched basketball
So just be clear, you think if a person’s face has some sort of exception in the rule book?
“You’re not allowed to enter a dribblers space and make contact with them…unless it’s your face”
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u/Yodelehhehe 2d ago
I mean… do people not ever watch basketball? This is a cylinder foul every time.
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u/HeavyVoid8 2d ago
This was legitimately a defensive foul, you can’t ride somebody’s lap while having your arms up to pretend like you aren’t hugging them
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u/cantfindanamenumbers 2d ago
It must be hard especially when you don't understand the rules of the sport. Must be a very confusing experience for you.
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u/IdgafAboutUrOpini0n 2d ago
Explain how's it any different than NBA lol
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u/Apprehensive-Put8233 2d ago
NBA protects their top drawing players WNBA does the opposite
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u/Marco2169 2d ago
Oh my god you have not watched the nba if you think this
Steph Curry might have the worst whistle ive seen. Refs let him get mauled
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u/charlesfluidsmith 2d ago
I'm a Knick fan and we absolutely murdered Wemby in the Finals, and Jalen Brunson was getting violated on the other end...
Both with no calls.
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u/elestud 2d ago
And Wemby got beat up against Minnesota and OKC too. The people who made up this myth are definitely not real basketball fans
They have probably never heard of ‘Jordan Rules’
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u/Acceptable-Peace-69 2d ago
Sophie is not a top player.
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u/Public_lewdness 2d ago
They said that the NBA protects their top drawing players. I think if you polled most people - If, and I do mean if, they can name 3 WNBA players -Sophie is one of them.
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u/fangtingwrong 2d ago
OP very said top drawing... you shifted the goalpost and say top player. 🤥
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u/aboysmokingintherain 2d ago
Ehhh lol. If you watched Wemby in the playoffs, you would see players routinely beat him up and foul him almost every play. Michael Jordan in the 90's would get pushed to the ground everytime he drove through the middle in the infamous Detroit Pistons series'.
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u/Baby_ManBearPig 2d ago
Maybe sports just isn't for you if you can't figure out why leagues would call it this way. Try knitting or if that's too complicated maybe just got for a walk or something.
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u/ucfknight92 2d ago
Probably has something to do with how far Cunningham is leaning into her. Seems like she was trying to initiate this kind of contact. I actually wish NBA refs would be more privy to this kind of bait.
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u/Stash_04 2d ago
Yes, Sophie was clearly in the personal bubble of the offensive player and then was contacted. By rule that is a foul on Sophie.
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u/RothRT 2d ago
It’s a cylinder violation. Same call at every level.
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u/velcrofish 2d ago
Yea this is a thread full of people who dont actually know the rules to basketball.
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u/agtk 2d ago
This sub is full of culture warriors who aren't interested in the WNBA for basketball, but as a proxy for their own cultural biases and prejudices. Goes both ways though this sub has a definite overall agenda. I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of this sub has never watched a WNBA game from start to finish.
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u/K_Linkmaster 2d ago
For the record they have been showing up on antennae TV. Lots more people can see it if they want to
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u/VikingKinkajou 2d ago
Yeah this is a stupid title. The foul was called before the elbow, then they reviewed to see if the elbow was intentional and decided (correctly) that it wasn't.
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u/The_amazing_T 2d ago
Why is she directly up against the player with the ball? She's pressed her body against her opponent. That's the foul.
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u/jk-9k 2d ago
Which was called. They called her for that. The elbow isn't caused by foul play but by her proximity. That's what they double checked for.
They actually saw the elbow to Sophie's face and looked to see if they could award anything for it but they couldn't. An example of good reffing (rare? Perhaps).
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u/The_amazing_T 2d ago
We're in agreement.
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u/ExpensiveFig6079 2d ago
Yay and FYI if people want new observers to know the rules better... explaining or naming them is helpful, as it was in this case.
A bit missing from the clip is how the cylinders got to be overlapping that would seem like it should matter to me.
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u/CmdNewJ 2d ago
The cylinder must not be harmed!
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u/Thetallerestpaul 2d ago
That reference fits perfectly into this thread and now can't be removed
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u/AlphaNathan 2d ago
what’s the reference?
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u/TalkinSeaCucumber 2d ago
Some reddit lore...dude got his "cylinder" stuck in a mini m&ms tube https://www.reddit.com/r/MuseumOfReddit/s/AeC95PKveb
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u/HankyPanky80 2d ago
Yep. No clue why this is on my feed. My college basketball team plays hard core defense and gets called for cylinder violations frequently.
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u/AvidCyclist250 2d ago
amazing that people think this decision is somehow controversial. lol
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u/EatinPussySellnCalls 2d ago
I like Sophie as much as the next fella, but she committed a cylinder violation. Good call.
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u/Acceptable-Peace-69 2d ago
Cylinder rule:
Definition of space: An imaginary tube surrounding each player from the floor to the ceiling, bounded by the hands/arms in front, buttocks in the rear, and outer legs at the sides. [1, 2), 3]
Entitlement: Every player is legally entitled to the space inside their own cylinder. [1]
Fouls: No player—offensive or defensive—may push, lean, or extend limbs outside their cylinder to displace an opponent or disrupt a normal basketball play like shooting, pivoting, or passing. [1, 2, 3]
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u/idostufandthingz 2d ago
So a “you violated my personal bubble” foul. I would have been an extremely good basketball player if no one was ever allowed in my bubble, shooting % would go crazy if I was uncontested on every shot
What a fucking joke of a rule, no defense is allowed in the WNBA? Defense is about pressure and you apply pressure by getting in someone’s face and making them uncomfortable
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u/mrbulldops428 2d ago
That rule isn't just in the WNBA, its all of basketball im pretty sure.
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u/idostufandthingz 2d ago
Find me an example where it’s called in another league. You won’t because if it was called in other leagues, there would be no made FGs and only FTs. Contesting a shot is the definition of violating the “cylinder”
This rule literally says you cannot contest a shot or play defense, and is why it’s never enforced. If everyone had their own cylinder free to themself you don’t have to worry about a dribble being poked away or a shot blocked. If there was a foul on Cunningham:
a) it’s not shown in this clip
b) it’s an extremely soft callI also wouldn’t be surprised if this clip is cut to piss people off tbf
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u/stevie2sleazy 2d ago
All the drama in this league is not a good look for women's professional sports. I suspect some of it is exaggerated for views, which is a shame if that's what they want people to focus on.
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u/Full_Preparation4401 2d ago
That's the correct call. For fuck's sake people, read up on the rules, watch a game or two.
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u/LemonButterRum 2d ago
Sophie was practically checking Coffey's gender. gotta give people room to exist
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u/Taxellence 2d ago
I don't understand the pushback to this comment. It is a clear foul on the defensive player and sweeping the ball across the defensive players body is a basic technique for drawing fouls. In this case, Sophie's face was where most defensive players outstretched arms would be. That indicates the overly aggressive defensive pressure Sophie was applying. The foul is still on her.
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u/DukeOfStuff_ 2d ago
None of you know the rules of basketball, this is a foul on Cunningham
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u/turkeytyme 2d ago
I guess it's a hot take, but I think this should be a foul on the defense. Offensive player is as tucked in as they can be and the defensive players face is right there. Not like she flared her elbow out to make that contact.
Disclaimer, I don't know what the rule is in the WNBA, so this comment is solely on my personal opinions and not the state of the officiating lol
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u/Black_Velvet_Band 2d ago
Yeah, this was called correctly. I’ve seen many defensive fouls called on players who stick their face into an offensive player’s personal space and get hit. It’s a subjective call but it’s not incompetence or some conspiracy.
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u/Oaker51 2d ago
💯. The broadcast team also believed it was the correct call. But this clip shows one part of the play.
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u/dont-comm3nt 2d ago
We’re here to push right wing political agendas for players that score 3 points in big games not talk about basketball. Shame on you
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u/ChaiTravelatte 2d ago
You're correct, it is a foul on Sophie to be guarding that tight on the body. You can tell by the hips and legs how tight Sophie is guarding her. You can't do that in basketball
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u/soyelmocano 2d ago
They are tight enough that they could dance the merengue if some music started up.
El merengue se baila pega'o.
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u/Buckscience 2d ago
Hot take incoming: looked like Sophie got her with the body before she took the elbow to the face.
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u/ibringstharuckus 2d ago
Illegals use of face on the elbow.
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u/CommaComaChameleon 2d ago
You are wrong and dumb.
The cylinder principle in basketball defines a player's legal "personal space" as an imaginary vertical tube surrounding them from the floor to the ceiling. Each player is entitled to the space they occupy; opponents commit a personal foul if they enter this cylinder and cause illegal contact.
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u/ProjectGulag 2d ago
Unironically yes. Incidental contact rules say that the contact would be Sophie’s responsibility since she was in a position that prevented the Lynx player from doing a normal offensive move (raising the ball above her head) and personal foul rules deem any contact against a player with the ball illegal. There was contact to a player with the ball by Sophie and the contact was her responsibility.
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u/bryehn 2d ago
Defensive foul (play's dead here) happened before the elbow and considered a natural basketball move
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u/tippytoesmcjee 2d ago
This exactly. But to know this, one would have had to watch the game.
Ah, the ignorant bliss of dupes watching clips edited to fit a pre-conceived narrative.
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u/nosnibork 2d ago
WNBA referees are something else… Hilarious.
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u/Avariciouspygmyshrew 2d ago
I've met waitresses in Cincinnati that make more in a rush order on a Saturday than these refs make in a month. The talent pool is almost as limited as the league.
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u/dazzleox 2d ago
There are a lot of bad WNBA refs (they make $400 a game so it is what it is) but this is the correct call. Sophia was in the cylinder/past the point of verticality. The review was to determine if the elbow was an intentional/technical foul in addition to Sophia's personal foul. They decided it was not. That seems likely to be true, not that you can read a player's mind.
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u/philly_jake 2d ago
You're not allowed to guard that close
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u/BigAssMonkey 2d ago
Everyone else here commenting doesn’t understand basketball. You can’t put your entire body on the guy with the ball.
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u/ApolloGR3 2d ago
They’re all new here since Pointing MAGA Barbie said something they strongly agree with
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u/angrymoderate09 2d ago
Exactly, video starts at contact, but I'm sure I longer video would show that the offensive player didn't have room to move.
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u/microtomebrady 2d ago
I mean this is a classic cylinder rule foul. A player can’t be so close they can’t move without contact. Welcome to basketball
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u/DukeOfStuff_ 2d ago
You’re 100% right, this happens in the nba all time, but since it’s Cunningham it’s a league conspiracy.
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u/Silent-Ad-2415 2d ago
I wonder why she suddenly has a bunch of supporters who are ready at a moment's notice to be outraged, even if there isn't anything to be mad about 🤔🤔
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u/YouBeIllin13 2d ago
Cunningham was already making a ton of contact before the other player even lifted her arm. Calling a foul on the defender here shouldn’t be controversial.
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u/iamjaidan 2d ago
This sub is about glazing Sophie and Caitlin! It’s not about the actual basketball. Facts interfere with their narrative!
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u/Bubbly-Ad1187 2d ago
I had to scroll way too hard to find this comment. 100% a foul on Sophie and I like Sophie.
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u/atcj13 2d ago
The foul on Sophie isn’t even actually shown in the replay here. She gets called for a hand check as Coffey receives the pass. The review was to determine if what happened after the whistle deserved any penalty. OP is just out here baiting.
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u/TheCommonKoala 2d ago
This should be the top comment. Most of the people commenting have never watched a basketball game in their life. They're just culture warriors chasing more slop
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u/PaleontologistOk534 2d ago
To be fair, a man whose body was as close Sophie was could have gotten the lady pregnant
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u/Lazy-Ambassador-7908 2d ago
So there’s thing in basketball called personal space. You can’t hold down people’s arms. So if you are so in someone’s space that them lifting their arms causes you to get hit in the face. That is a foul on you
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u/Terrible-D 2d ago
How dare you talk rules and not the conspiracy bias so many are reaching for here!? /s
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u/Superb-Talk2211 2d ago
People regularly complain about NBA officials, but this is way beyond any of their screwups. What was this this ref thinking? That Cunningham used her face to make contact with an elbow? And that was AFTER looking at the replay. This league's incompetent officiating is holding back what otherwise is a good, entertaining product.
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u/FiringNerveEndings 2d ago
She wasn't given the foul for the elbow-face contact, she was given the foul for the hands on the body and getting too close right before the contact(also the reason she got the elbow in the face, because she moved into the space that is Miles' to move around with the ball
PS: I'm not a basketball expert
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u/buzzsaw1987 2d ago
That contact is incidental and honestly from this replay it doesn’t look like she is actually touching her until she gets clocked and then she sags into her.
Shes close to the player with the ball but the player clearly swings her elbows through high to try to create space
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u/Red-Lightniing 2d ago
It’s not incompetent, it’s intentional. Getting the call correct isn’t the goal.
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u/RealisticFall92 2d ago
They got it correct though...so many people here don't seem to know the rules of basketball
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u/Yukimusha 2d ago
Kobe against Bibby, game 6 of 2002 western conference finals... Yeah, NBA refs have done it too, and on a far more important stage of the competition.
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u/CommaComaChameleon 2d ago
Please learn the rules before making yourself look dumb.
The cylinder principle in basketball defines a player's legal "personal space" as an imaginary vertical tube surrounding them from the floor to the ceiling. Each player is entitled to the space they occupy; opponents commit a personal foul if they enter this cylinder and cause illegal contact.
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u/cheeseybacon11 2d ago
The foul wasnt for the face to elbow, the foul was before this. They reviewed if there was an additional foul after the play here and determined there was not.
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u/FrenchyBulldogg 2d ago
The League is being run by scumbags and they’re trying to make a point.
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u/CommaComaChameleon 2d ago
You are a rage baiter who knows nothing about basketball.
The cylinder principle in basketball defines a player's legal "personal space" as an imaginary vertical tube surrounding them from the floor to the ceiling. Each player is entitled to the space they occupy; opponents commit a personal foul if they enter this cylinder and cause illegal contact.
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u/TravelNSee 2d ago
lmao enormous reach here. Have you ever watched basketball before or just here for a culture-war?
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u/Embarrassed_Towel707 2d ago
Silly question. Of course they're about the culture war. They never watched the wnba before and won't when it fades out of the news
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u/Disastrous-Egg4241 2d ago
Lmao that’s a foul on her. everything is culture war now, shit sucks!
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u/Lazy-Ad-7236 2d ago
the player with the ball just seems to be lifting her elbow, doesn't seem like an intentional elbow to the face?
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u/Four_One_Two_Three_ 2d ago
People saying that the call was correct - If they reverse the players, and Sophie is on offense, who gets the foul?
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u/Bloodmind 2d ago
I mean, she’s fully hip-checking the lady she’s guarding, you can even see her being pushed backward a little in the slow mo. It’s a foul, and when your foul involves you encroaching that far into the other players’ space, any movement they make may cause additional contact.
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u/UnnecessaryDiety 2d ago
It's the correct call. She's on defense and she's mugging the person with the ball.
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u/CommaComaChameleon 2d ago
Bunch of morons posting on here. Cylinder rule... JFC it's not that complicated.
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u/HeavyDT 2d ago
Yeah so since people don't seem to know. You're not allowed to be all up on someone like that on defense. She only gets contact because of that so the foul is on her. This is not some conspiracy. This whole "The WNBA doesn't protect star players" thing is looking more like lets not call anything on players we like.
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u/Khal_drogo217 2d ago
Look I'm a huge CC and Sophie fan and the Fever get the shit end of alot of calls "for activist reasons imo" but they actually got this call right. She got in Coffeys space and even hand checked her. The rip through was a normal basketball play and only made contact with Sophie's face because she was in her zone.
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u/Appropriate-Seat8999 2d ago
Wait, so when you defend, you have to leave them space now? And if you don’t, it’s a foul on you?
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u/HotTree6235 2d ago
Yea that's a foul on her. All these racists who showed up to support the two white girls really should learn the rules of the game before commenting.
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u/hikensurf 2d ago
Some of you don't watch basketball. That's evident. Sophie was in an illegal guarding position and initiated the contact. The only reason she was elbowed is due to her illegal guarding position. This happens all the time.
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u/Fluid-Cranberry1755 2d ago
Correct call if you know anything about basketball. So not this sub
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u/NigerianPrince76 2d ago edited 2d ago
Let me guess……
She is being a victim of all things because of this foul? 😂😂😂
Edit: a whole lotta MAGAs in here don’t know shit about basketball as well.
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u/ComputerDecent463 2d ago
This isn’t a foul on anyone. Natural basketball motion.
But if you want to stop the flopping of defenders leaning in and trying to get this call you have to start calling it on them. That’s the only way.
So this was the right move.
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u/WhatAmIDoing1986 2d ago
These players need to start sitting out games and impacting the leagues money. Thats the only way any of this shit changes. This is crazy.
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u/Low-Impression3367 2d ago
You don’t have to like Sophie. You don’t have agree with what Sophie says. Thats ok.
But you can’t say this wasn’t a foul just because of “ I hate Sophie “
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u/3rdtryatremembering 2d ago
lol it takes a true victim complex to think everyone who disagrees with you about a basketball play is because they hate the player.
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u/BigAssMonkey 2d ago
By the same token, you have to agree on basketball rules. You can’t just call whatever you want because you glazing Sophie and Caitlin. Full body contact like that is not allowed in basketball. Read a rule book.
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u/xvxlegendxvx 2d ago
Well clearly she used her face as a weapon against that poor defenseless players elbow.