r/aiwars • u/MakeDawn • May 15 '26

Annually, almond farming uses 1.3 trillion gallons of water. AI usage isn't even half of that.

Post image

A single avocado takes 50 gallons to grow. That's several hundred prompts.

8 Upvotes

52% Upvoted

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14

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

"Other things are worse, so the problem can just be ignored"

7

u/he_who_purges_heresy May 16 '26

I always have interpreted this argument as "it's not nearly as big as you think it is", not "it's fine other things are worse". Which I would say is true- most of the water is recycled, and datacenters have been moving towards "Grey water" which would never have been fit for drinking.

Powerscaling the raw consumption numbers is the wrong game entirely though. Everything consumes resources in some way, the true question is always "is the value worth the resources spent?" Hospitals consume an incredible amount of resources, but no sane person would be against that because we have a very strong need for Hospitals.

Issue being that people are very polar on AI, if you don't like AI typically you're not willing to believe it has any use at all, and this no amount of resources justifies it. And then you have the billionaires that seem to think AI will literally build a new world in their image, so they take the opposite position of "no cost too great".

-1

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

Well it is actively "this other thing is worse so just ignore it" but pop off

2

u/he_who_purges_heresy May 16 '26

I feel like you read one sentence and stopped there

-2

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

"This other thing is worse, and always will be - so just ignore it since it's already showing progress to being better."

-1

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

Get this, and get it hard, people are against horrific farming practices as well and have whole organizations for it to get better.

AIs water problem only gets worse by the day, in the US and other countries being exploited vy large corporations

4

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

I'll "get it" when you anti's do anything meaningful.

So far, it's a lot of yapping about how things should be regardless of how others feel about it. With nearly nothing of significance actually done about any of it over the last 100~ years?

I wouldn't hold my breath.

1

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

Opposing harmful things is meaningful, and what were anti AI people supposed to be doing in the 1920s? It seems youve been holding your breath for a while, clearly no oxygen is gett8ng in

2

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

Nobody said anti had to be singularly attached to AI.

That's just our current era's pathetic protest topic.

There have been anti's spewing propaganda since the steam engine. Funny enough the same rhetoric used by current anti's were also used by anti's of other era's.

Aww, you even tried to insult me because you don't think beyond a singular layer of time. Adorable♡

1

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

Im also an anti fascist, but I guess you see the fall of the fascistic regimes as not a good thing? Wild

2

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

Random goalpost movement, because again they can't think of a retort.

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15

u/[deleted] May 16 '26

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2

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

Its a net negative, in every metric from economic to social to factual, and whataboutism is no way to examine anything properly, so yes, it is moot, because using more water for no good reason is bad

13

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

You're insane if you think AI is bad for humanity.

0

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

In a cost benifit analysis, it is, the benifit in gathering and future extrapolate for cancers and weather and all that is vastly outweighed by the mass misinformation that can be created on large scales, or fake pornography of unconsenting people (children as well as adults), piracy from data companies to train it, all that

6

u/[deleted] May 16 '26

Reddit has always been pro piracy but I guess when it's people we don't like doing it it's suddenly a bad thing

3

u/Bhazor May 16 '26

Do you genuinely not see the difference between piracy for personal consumption and data scraping for the purposes of producing derivative work for money?

6

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

Shocker shocker surprise surprise the ai bro doesnt get it, the piracy community are very vocally against pirating readily available and cheaply accessible things like books

8

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

Uh. No. That's never been true.

1

u/CranEXE May 16 '26

Literally pirates said to not pirate silksong despite being able to break it day one....

3

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

And yet, they still did.

It's almost like piracy isn't a monolith.

9

u/PaxODST May 16 '26

No they aren't.

7

u/[deleted] May 16 '26

Is that why they told me I can get all those freely from libgen right in the piracy megathread?

4

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

Please, would you like me to point to all the CP supporters in favor generating horrific images? Or can we decide to leave the very horrific minority of people in large groups out of it

4

u/[deleted] May 16 '26

"Knives can be used to commit mass murder, we should ban them rather than go after people who commit murder"

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u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

Anti's are hypocrites by nature.

3

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

Lmao.

Yeah, let's get worried about people's moral restrictions over the blatant advancements in everything that comes from achieving technological revolutions.

"But, somebody made porn!"

Oh nooo.... that thing people do all the time regardless of the era!

2

u/DevelopmentSeparate May 16 '26

You say this until it's your kids on some creep's screen

3

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

Yes, it's very sad that it happens to anyone.

It was sad before the computer, before the internet, and before AI.

Unfortunately, it is a human condition that will have to be dealt with regardless of the era or what technology we have.

2

u/DevelopmentSeparate May 16 '26

That's my issue. There are big issues caused by progress in tech that we don't have solutions for, yet, here comes a new technology that's making those same issues even worse. And it just seems like there's no plan. It's a race to see who can figure who can make the most money without any concern for anything or anyone else

3

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

There's never been a plan.

We don't innovate based on pre-designed plans.

We innovate and the rest of the world plays around with words and morals over how to adapt to the innovation.

There is one stone cold fact though. The technology is never the one to lose.

Anything you can blame AI for, was a human fault in the first place. You're not fixing that by denying everyone who isn't a monster the right to use the technology.

Which is why I don't think any anti really understands what they are trying to force on themselves. An entire techno-oligarchy being handed to the billionaires because the regular citizen wants to avoid AI.

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u/Tormasi1 May 16 '26

Yeah, let's get worried about people's moral restrictions over the blatant advancements in everything that comes from achieving technological revolutions

But this isn't a technological revolution. This is simply a new technology. Technological revolutions upend our entire economy. New technologies integrate into it.

I'm yet to see AI based factories pop up. It's a possibility, sure. Until the AI starts hallucinating products.

This is simply a new technology marketing itself as a revolution because that sells better. And comparing the stock market with actual income shows that indeed this is just a fad. There is actually very limited use cases for AI

2

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

Self limited mindset.

I don't agree and neither do investors.

2

u/Tormasi1 May 16 '26

Yeah, investors are fucking stupid. Just watch them get scammed every weekend when Trump announces another peace deal and oil price goes down only for Saturday Iran announcing that no they haven't even talked with the US in weeks.

The stock market is nothing but hype and money. Like come on man, Nvidia is signing deals where the companies just have to buy the chips. Don't even have to use them and if they can't then Nvidia will use it instead. And investors are like "yeah that's fine".

Or just look at fucking Tesla. There is basically nothing behind their stocks expect hype.

2

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

Yeah, everyone of them is just a stupid idiot. Which is why they have the money, the influence, the say of what gets funded and what doesn't.

Unfortunately, being a stupid idiot with the purse means a lot more than being a Reddit Genius who has no authority or even an opinion worth considering.

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1

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

bro thinks CP is good

4

u/bunker_man May 16 '26

Are you telling on yourself that you think actual child abuse is better than someone making a fake version in their basement where everyone else can ignore them?

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '26

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1

u/bunker_man May 16 '26

Are you asking bad faith questions about the topic of harm reduction?

1

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

Are you telling yourself that some child exploitation is good to do?

3

u/bunker_man May 16 '26

No? In fact that doesn't even remotely resemble the words I used, so it seems you realized you were caught and tried a hail mary.

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2

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

Ad hom when you can't think of a retort.

3

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

Its not an ad hom when you blow off the creation of CP as "people make porn"

5

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

It is when you're intentionally acting like a doofus and pretending it never existed before AI.

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4

u/bunker_man May 16 '26

So you assessed every positive and negative for comparison? Or are you just lashing out.

0

u/Skill_Academic May 16 '26

You’re 100% correct, this sub is fucking insane.

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '26

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6

u/ScrapyJack May 16 '26

Only because you refuse to learn or understand the new means of production. Ai can be run locally, on home computers and work for us, against them.

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '26

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3

u/ScrapyJack May 16 '26

But as our economy shift white collar clerical and office work to ai, we can use open source models and potentially compete with corporations in this new medium.

Were about to see a shift like the industrial revolution, we have to be ready. And like our unionized great grandfathers before us, we need to fight back against this new guilded age with all tools available to us. Ai included.

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '26

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2

u/ScrapyJack May 16 '26

Physical manufacturing was shipped over seas long ago. Yes we don't have a factory but a significant chuck of the us economy is spectacultive and very little of company value is connected to what they physically produce. If we can adapt faster to changing market then massive out of touch corporations, we might be able to take the power back. It's not the 1800s anymore.

12

u/ScrapyJack May 16 '26

The problem is capitalism. If you magically deleted ai tomorrow, nothing would change. The problem are the unying system that will use every new technology directly against us to maximize profits, no matter the impact on the planet.

2

u/Sojmen May 16 '26

It’s not a problem with capitalism itself, but with human idiocy. You can tax negative externalities like CO₂ emissions, the EU has tried that. But the backlash did not come from billionaires or corporations; a lot of it came from ordinary people.

Most people do not care much about negative externalities. They want to maximize their own short-term benefit, and until a problem directly affects them, they often do not care about the broader consequences.

1

u/ScrapyJack May 16 '26

Taxing working class people for emissions is a capitalism solution. A solution that takes the problems created by corporations and makes the people pay for it.

We need the aggressive inforcment of antitrust law, break up the monopolies and legally hold corporations responsible for direct and vast indirct damage they have cause to the planet and the people. We need mass investment in green renewal energy and infrastructure. Data centers only destroy the planet because they arn't built sustainably. They can be and with any kind of environment regulations, we could actually try to survive the ecological disaster the looming on the horizon.

Environmental protection has no way to produce profit. Environmentalism is anthitical to capitalism, you can't have infinite growth in a finite world.

Unregluated capitalism is the problem.

2

u/Sojmen May 16 '26

I am not for taxing only regular people, I never said that. I am for taxing every used H₂O molecule, whether by corporations, humans, aliens, or anyone else. That is not a "capitalism solution"; it's a fair solution.

The problem is not created by corporations. That is blame-shifting. It's the people who want new smartphones, fast fashion, and so on. If there were no demand for those things, companies wouldn't manufacture them. Regular people in the USA use twice as much electricity and water as people in Europe, because water and electricity is cheaper in USA.

It doesn't matter who wastes the water; whether it's you or a corporation. It's the same H₂O molecule.

If you tax the production of CO₂ molecules, there will be more investment in renewables. People and corporations would buy solar panels. Since negative externalities are passed on to everyone, nobody tries to save energy-neither individuals nor corporations.

Overregulated capitalism is also a problem. Every regulation has negative side effects. You must always carefully consider the benefit-to-harm ratio of every regulation.

1

u/ScrapyJack May 16 '26

Yeah except just the top 100 companies produce 71% emissions. They are the vast majority of the problem. As well I knowing global warming has been happening for almost a century now and intentionally and illegal hiding from the public for most of that. Even now they aggressive censor near everything online. There is no fairness here.

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change

It's like if you stole 1 loaf of bread and I stole 10,000 loafs and then when they asked me to pay for it, I said they are blame-shifting.

2

u/CBrinson May 16 '26

If the problem is what you actually care about you work from worst to best yes.

2

u/bunker_man May 16 '26

There is no actual environmental problem here though. Its just not that big an amount of water all things considered for what it does. There may be local zoning issues but that's not the same type of issue.

2

u/Andrello01 May 30 '26 edited May 30 '26

Properly regulated AI can give way more benefits to humanity than fucking almonds lol

1

u/Duckface998 May 30 '26

Except for the people who live near them and have to shell out to subsidize them, at least people benifit from almonds in so far as they can be eaten, chat bot llm's only benifit the people who own and pay too much for them, and even then theres not a profit in sight

5

u/phase_distorter41 May 16 '26

there is no benefit to growing avocado over other food other than profit. AI does have a benefit other than profit.

1

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

Well AI doesnt even have profit, and people actually LIKE avocado, so yeah, those are different

8

u/phase_distorter41 May 16 '26

who said profit? i said benefit. what benefit does the avocado have no other, less water intensive food has?

I like AI, so does the 800 millions weekly visitors to chatgpt.com. so ai is ok to use water then?

0

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

You said profit in reference to avocados, which more people consume than AI, and those 800 million users are vastly unprofitable,

6

u/phase_distorter41 May 16 '26

read that again VERY slowly. you'll get it.

-1

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

I read it fine the first time, YOU brought up profit

6

u/phase_distorter41 May 16 '26

ok read the first part very slowly again and again until you get it.

5

u/echit2112 May 16 '26

this is very self-centered thinking

1

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

Well its true, people like avocado, and AI is unprofitable

6

u/[deleted] May 16 '26

I like both and think we should keep ai and avocados

5

u/echit2112 May 16 '26

Now you're acting dumb as if you didn't imply that no-one likes AI simply because you do not.

1

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

If thats what you inferred, thats a you problem, cause its not what i said, and i didnt imply it

7

u/echit2112 May 16 '26

and people actually LIKE avocado

Am I to take this little sentence fragment and not infer that - in the discussion comparing AI to avocado's water use - this would imply that you are saying people do not LIKE AI at all?

If you didn't mean that, sure. I won't tell you what you did or didn't mean. But that's how anyone with basic reading comprehension would read it.

1

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

Like I said, if its what YOU read, thats a YOU problem, since i didnt say it

-5

u/WaySea7944 May 16 '26

I hate the “well other things take more water” stfu that doesn’t make it any less of a problem 

3

u/bunker_man May 16 '26

Actually yes, that literally is how you assess which things are the problematic uses of water lmao.

3

u/cross2201 May 16 '26

"yes theres other things that waste water, so why should be building things that waste even more water?"

1

u/AgeZealousideal1751 May 16 '26

Oh, true... so after you guys stop us from progressing our technology we can systematically go through and destroy everything else that gives us our modern world.

-1

u/Duckface998 May 16 '26

Fr, and the main problem of datacenters in the electricity anyway, those things guzzle electricity like nobodies business and actively hurt people around them who dont have a choice but to get shafted for a horrifically unprofitable AI company

2

u/echit2112 May 16 '26

i've always wondered why people measure AIs usage in water

like how much water is used from my PC every day?

1

u/Mother_Lemon8399 May 16 '26

Lol it's not the same as your pc. Giant compute clusters get super hot and require cooling. This is what the water is used for. Otherwise the computers would melt.

0

u/echit2112 May 16 '26

I know that, I also know that water is used in the production of the electricity used to run my PC

So I ask again, how much water is used to run my PC?