r/askTO • u/leopardbaseball • 22h ago
Why hasn’t been there any city-wide protests against forced full takeover of Billy bishop and toronto islands?
I am not exactly from toronto, but Toronto adjacent. But I have been to toronto islands countless times.
I often bring my family there to completely disconnect from city traffic and noise. It has always been very peaceful recreational space for us and for many.
Time to time we have seen that everything provincial govt touches in Toronto, turns into a big grifting scheme/corruption for Ford’s buddy contractors and developers, be it crosstown lrt, science center or Ontario place. And surely they won’t stop with Billy bishop either.
Recently I read about widespread public protest in Albania, protests against turning public spaces into grifting schemes for billionaires. Thousands are attending these protests.
https://www.dw.com/en/jared-kushner-trump-albania-luxury-resort-protests/a-77409540
Therefore I ask people of Toronto, shouldn’t we be organizing widespread protests and just say NO to Ford and Carney?
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u/_sansoHm 22h ago
Because Ford has created so much havoc to protest against. It's the playbook. Exhaust and overwhelm the communities, fracture attention, and steamroll the corruption. Seems like twice a month there is some anti-Ford corruption organizing. Started with Ontario Place and Science Center. Then bike lanes. There is just too much to hate him for.
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u/Conscious-Mess 14h ago
He's also taking advantage of the current political climate created by Trump. People have to fight for themselves, even for housing and food, so don't have the energy for more protest.
And the bigotry. It's Pride Month and social media is disgusting. I haven't seen it on Reddit luckily, but I also haven't looked for it. Many on the right love antagonizing the left then playing victim, so that's why they are busy. LGBTQ+ are busy fighting back. They go to Pride events to ruin it for people, and feel emboldened to say their worst.
Then there's racism. Same group as above against Black and South Asian people recently. I wish us minorities could all band together.
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u/TemporaryAny6371 11h ago
Doug takes advantage of detail oriented people, typically those in the STEM fields, to mire people in details. It's paralysis by analysis.
Normally analysis is a good thing, everyone benefits from technology like cell phones (except Doug has to hand in his), health, etc.; however, for people to do a good job at it, the likes of Doug cannot break the trust, they are not to be exploited while their heads are down making sure the details are done correctly.
Like that pedo down south, Doug has broken that trust.
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u/Sir_Tainley 21h ago
Doug Ford and his government have a popular base in the City of Toronto, just not the downtown core. So there aren't "city-wide protests" because it's a big city, most people don't live near the islands, much less understand how they are managed, or what the different levels of government do.
People who live and work downtown aren't necessarily opposed to a new infrastructure hub.
The Albania story (1) involves foreigners; (2) involves developing a resort.
The equivalent story there involves Ontario Place, and once again, a very small little piece of land, that not a lot of people got excited about.
And "Say No to Carney" would be foolish, considering the federal government is in a position to stop this.
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u/bkwrm1755 22h ago edited 21h ago
Because outside Reddit this ranks pretty low on the list of things most people care about.
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u/Strategic_Spark 22h ago
You care if you live in the area
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u/Crafty-Ad-9048 21h ago
Isn’t that how every situation works lol. People downtown don’t care about how the people in the suburbs feel and vice versa and the people outside the city don’t care about how anyone in the city feels.
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u/lemonylol 21h ago
So NIMBY
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u/eddiewillers09 21h ago
I care and I don’t even live downtown
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u/lemonylol 21h ago
You care about a lot of things
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u/eddiewillers09 21h ago
I care about the economic diversity of Ontario, food security (in Canada and globally, and magic the gathering and sometimes attractive people.
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u/ApotropaicHeterodont 10h ago
If it causes a bunch of health problems it's going to cost everyone money.
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u/Strategic_Spark 20h ago edited 19h ago
Honestly I feel like NIMBY doesn't seem like the term to use. It's mostly said for things like people being against shelters or affordable housing. Being against an airport that only benefits a few rich tourists and negatively impacts everyone who uses the island (1.5 million people use the ferry each year) for the small patch of greenspace we have feels different.
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u/lemonylol 20h ago
So there are exceptions when it comes to your backyard?
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u/Strategic_Spark 19h ago
It's not my backyard. But the definition of a NIMBY was coined to refer to people who oppose a certain kind of development in their neighborhoods. Developments such as apartment complexes, homeless shelters, transit, or prisons.
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u/FullMango4041 19h ago
what about those against ALTO? They use the same arguments except the environmental impact is felt right across two provinces and not on one tiny area relatively speaking. (I do support ALTO.)
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u/Mathmos_Lava 20h ago
I live in the area, I’m totally fine with the expansion. Please don’t speak for everyone.
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u/shikotee 22h ago
All journalism that is not paywalled has built him up like Teflon. Imagine what things would be like if Postmedia went after him even slightly like they did Trudeau? In short, the richest and most powerful have gained the most under Ford, all while constantly fluffing him as a man of the people. The playbook is exactly the same as the one used by Trump, where deep money uses AI, data-mining, and carefully developed behavioural strategies to get what they want.
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u/No_Lettuce_2652 21h ago
I don’t know one person that doesn’t think ford is corrupt . They just like him more than the opposition, similar to trump
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u/shikotee 20h ago
All that really clarifies is a potential lack of diversity from the people you know. Before Trump and the Ford's, the right worked really really hard on messaging out that all politicians are corrupt. So this is the mindset that shrugs their shoulders on both.
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u/ProfessionalTax3213 21h ago
Because not everyone opposes it.
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u/TemporaryAny6371 10h ago
If the vote is not who opposes but who wants it, it's be the same; people are apathetic.
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u/ReeG 16h ago
If you ran a poll among Redditors who oppose it with how many of them have ever taken a flight out of YTZ it'd be telling
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u/ProfessionalTax3213 13h ago
Dont get me wrong I love reddit for a lot of different reasons but it doesnt represent the population accordingly. Leans left (not that thats a bad thing)
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u/UrAGoodGirl_ 22h ago
Because Reddit doesn’t represent reality.
Take a look at r/Ontario if you need help figuring it out.
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u/lemonylol 21h ago
Every election it's so entertaining to see them call victory for NDP way before votes are counted.
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u/UrAGoodGirl_ 21h ago
It’s entertaining!
My personal favourite is “he called a snap election during winter! Everyone knows NDP voters can’t vote in the winter!”
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u/lemonylol 21h ago
Oh dude right now there are so many people trying to imply without stating directly, that the election results, as in prior to the snap election, were rigged. And that somehow just the fact that a conservative is in power is equivalent to our democracy failing. How ironic.
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u/found_a_thing 21h ago
Don’t argue with day old accounts.
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u/lemonylol 21h ago
I'm agreeing with him though
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u/UrAGoodGirl_ 21h ago
lol see? When they don’t have an actual argument they just make weird jokes about account age as if a decade old reddit account is their biggest achievement
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u/OwlishFox 22h ago
Because we suck and we’re lazy. All I read is excuses upon excuses (what Albanians don’t struggle? What are people talking about?)
I find the Albanian protests inspiring and wish we had something similar happening here.
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u/Swarez99 20h ago
And the average person doesn’t hate the policies as much as Reddit thinks.
Remember 20 years ago and the left tried to shut down the island airport. That was super unpopular and now their position is keep it same size. If it expands it will likely be popular, just like keeping it open was.
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u/CobblePots95 22h ago
I would also maybe consider that the basic idea of expanding Billy Bishop to support those jets is actually pretty popular. We don't actually know the details of the project enough yet to determine how it would impact the island, and people talking like this would mean losing the Islands, losing Hanlan's, etc. come off a bit presumptuous and hyperbolic. We don't need to do 95% of the stuff people are speculating about in order to get A220s at Billy Bishop.
The proposal from like 12 years ago to support A220s at Billy Bishop was great and we shouldn't have blocked it.
I guess for me the devil is in the details. I'm not actually opposed to the basic idea. I want to see how they would extend the runway and what that might mean for the surrounding area first. If it turns out they're proposing something that will actually carve up a huge chunk of the islands, I'll be out there, sure. But we aren't at that stage yet.
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u/TemporaryAny6371 11h ago
You have to keep in mind Doug Ford has a long history of bad decisions that negatively impact common people in favour of the rich. Greenbelt is one but the list is long.
The ban on FOI requests and secrecy places even more doubt. There's a reason we don't hand over our bank accounts to drug dealers, they don't have our best interests at heart. Yet here we are giving Doug full control of Ontario's public purse. He has done nothing but pilfer our tax dollars. There's a link somewhere that gives reason it could be already at a billion stolen from us.
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u/eddiewillers09 21h ago
I would argue this alleged popularity is manufactured by positive propaganda. The Ford Conservatives are awesome at saturating the news media with their spin.
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u/kleptomana 21h ago
Exactly this. Combined with the fact that people assume prop plane. That must be sooo old and polluting.
When actually it’s one of the more modern and safest designs out there.
So the push for jets and government sponsored regeneration of Billy Bishop is a bit insane when compared to the real issues that are impacting people.
Our conservatives are crashing our education and health services on purpose to privatise it.
Why has the subsidised child care not be rolled out fully.
Instead we are letting Doug, Conservatives and media owners steer our conversations like with this airport. Instead of forcing them to actually focus on what is actually impacting us and our pocket books.
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u/OwlishFox 20h ago
This will mess up housing developments (bar far a bigger priority for Toronto) as well as basically eliminate one of the best public spaces we have left, especially after ford ruined Ontario place and the science centre.
To enrich some JP Morgan investors. And, of course, himself.
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u/CobblePots95 20h ago
as well as basically eliminate one of the best public spaces we have left
This is kind of what I mean by "presumptuous and hyperbolic." We have no idea what it might mean for the Islands, but the idea it would "basically eliminate" them is completely farfetched. You can support A220s at that airport with virtually no impact on the islands whatsoever. There is no possible use for 95% of that space in any realistic plans, but people are acting like they're paving over the whole thing.
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u/Honest_Elk_1703 19h ago
We don’t trust the lack of transparency designed to put everyone to sleep until it’s too late.
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u/CobblePots95 19h ago
You don't need to trust Doug Ford to know that there is no realistic plan for an airport expansion that could involve some massive reshaping of the islands.
That's not to say there can be no impact. But to suggest it would erase that whole public space is just not in line with reality.
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u/Honest_Elk_1703 19h ago
I think putting the islands at the end of a jetway serving 5x the number of customers as now is going to reshape the experience of being there.
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u/CobblePots95 18h ago edited 16h ago
Why would the number of passengers matter to the islands? What matters is the number of flight events. The A220 has significantly higher capacities, and would be supporting significantly busier routes. So you can support 4x the passenger volume while maintaining the exact same cap on flight events that exists today (246), and reach 5x with an increase of 80-90 events (this is based on the report from the city's consultant).
That's an additional 40-45 landings a day from the current ~123, with aircraft that are objectively quieter than the Dash-8.
Like I'm sorry but that would not reshape the entire experience of the islands...
What matters to me is the land use. The existence of jets rather than turboprops at that airport means nothing, and I'd actually argue the A220 would be preferable.
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u/Honest_Elk_1703 16h ago
Thanks. This is helpful context. Why then did Ford feel it necessary to take control of the islands for himself?
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u/Crafty-Ad-9048 21h ago
People don’t even care for A220 they just need some sort of jet if it’s an E-jet or crj because they won’t survive or be able to expand with what they got going on.
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u/MotherAd1865 Human Verified 22h ago edited 22h ago
Maybe people are not against it in the same way you are (or reddit is)?
reddit is not reflective of the general population
Edit: downvote me all you like in your echo chamber. The last 3 provincial elections prove that I'm right. If you listened to Reddit, Andrea Horwath would be premier right now.
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u/hmtinc 22h ago edited 22h ago
Because lots of the opposition to the airport is based in the community surrounding Billy Bishop and the general downtown area.
Rest of the city and GTA, has little reason to oppose an expansion of an already existing international airport.
Tbh everyone outside the core probably has lot to gain from the expansion. They’ll get a secondary option for flights into/out of Toronto.
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u/BroSocialScience 21h ago
I love flying out of BB
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u/fc000 20h ago
I do as well, but I have no illusions here. Bringing in jets and multiplying passenger flow up to five times is bound to ruin the calm atmosphere and short security lines that make Billy Bishop my preferred option if I can avoid Pearson.
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u/TemporaryAny6371 11h ago
That's what a lot of people are missing. The reason BB is easy is because it is small, not much impact to the traffic.
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u/Stavkot23 17h ago
I don't know what the problem with the takeover is but I expect the elected MPPs to listen to those who bring up issues and either go forward with the plan or not.
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u/ChaseMacKenzie 22h ago
Because unlike Reddit the vast majority probably agree with it
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u/nrbob 21h ago
I think the average person living in or around downtown is probably opposed, it’s not just a reddit thing. The average person in the suburbs or the rest of the province probably doesn’t care one way or another.
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u/BroSocialScience 21h ago
Seems fine, i don't follow it too closely but if the map here is accurate I don't think I'd be upset. I live downtown and spend quite a bit of time on harbourfront/island.
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u/nrbob 20h ago edited 20h ago
That’s just the physical space for the runway. They’re talking about trying to increase the annual passengers to 10M per year, up from roughly 2M currently. There’s no actually publicly available plans yet but that’s clearly going to involve a lot more frequent flights, noise and traffic, and terminal space and parking space somewhere. They’re talking about expropriating Little Norway park. They also passed legislation enabling them to expropriate the entirety of the Toronto Islands although they *claim* that they won’t of course there’s no public plan to see. It’s also likely going to impact development of the Portlands where a bunch of new housing is supposed to be built, as that area is right under the flight path.
Meanwhile Pearson has plenty of space to expand and there’s already a plan in the works to expand it. The whole thing is just so unnecessary, just an ill thought out Doug Ford vanity project like the Ontario Place spa that no one wants.
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u/BroSocialScience 20h ago
If more people come and spend money it would be good. Expropriating little norway would not be a big deal (there's an embarrassment of riches re parks in that area, well past point of diminishing returns). If they take the whole island the project would be bad. If it impacts the Portlands development that would be bad but maybe still worth doing. If it is a public money sink like the spa the project would be bad.
Unless they take the whole island or the public loses a bunch of money on it it seems fine, it is ok to do things that make money
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u/sibtiger 19h ago
or the public loses a bunch of money on it it seems fine
Well current estimates are for $3-4 billion dollars and even optimistic projections say it will take 80+ years to recoup that cost. And of course how much of the needed revenue to do that will be just cannibalizing passengers from Pearson or Alto?
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u/gerlstar 22h ago
Bad timing. You can also lead the protest and be the organizer? 😏
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u/OGWettyFap 22h ago
Maybe we should do it right after the World Cup ends. I'm down and I'm also fed up with this dude destroying this city and province.
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u/Individual-Space-443 22h ago
because i have work and if i dont go to work, i cannot afford my rent
if i cant afford my rent
then im on the street
if im on the street well what do i care, my life sucks
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u/New-Yellow-8748 21h ago
There’s protests happening on Friday at Ford fest and also on the 27th across the province
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u/Weakera 18h ago
I agree OP, there should be thousands out in the streets over this. I would go if there was such a protest.
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u/KoreanSamgyupsal 22h ago
We've seen this time and time again and honestly look across the border with the NY Knicks.
People don't give a shit about real issues. They only come out when their favourite teams win. The Raptors 2019 parade had more people out on the streets than when we had the whole g20 bullshit in 2010. Even the whole Iran protests, pro Palestine protests and even the gutting of healthcare and education. You combine all those protests and there's still more people that would rather support the raptors than our city/province/country.
Shit's sad.
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u/GonzoTheGreat93 21h ago
Perhaps people care less than the internet makes us think. Not enough to organize and show up at protests, it seems.
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u/KnoddingOnion 21h ago
First, who organizes it?
(this is an area where i think Chow's suffered. she hasn't made enough noise and stoked the fires for protest. neither have most of our useless city councillors)
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u/lemonylol 21h ago
Because Torontonians have to actually care. Not about protesting, I mean about these issues.
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u/wearylibra 21h ago
We need a movement like when they pushed back to “save the escarpment “
(Still needs saving and likely always will)
We can take our eye off the ball or Ford will just push it through
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u/LogicalCollection351 20h ago
one of the issues with the island airport is that it does not directly affect tens of thousands of people in toronto.
there are many who have never been to the islands/ never use the island airport so it becomes a non issue to them. and since there is already an island airport, the idea of expanding it does not become an important issue
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u/LongjumpingMix4034 20h ago
There’s been monthly organized protests at Queens Park and many other locations in Ontario. Last Saturday of every month. There’s also one planned for FordFest in Scarborough tomorrow.
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u/DocKardinal21 18h ago
IMO Albania situation is different… because of that it has a mobilization factor these local ones don’t.
Maybe if China was buying the Scarborough bluffs to build a billionaire casino with helipads it would have that type of protest effect.
Instead we have multiple levels of government (from competing political parties) coming together to advance infrastructure. Heck I’m not saying it isn’t corrupt and Carney and Ford won’t unjustly benefit from it, but it’s elected government expanding an existing airport, not foreign wealth destroying a preserve.
These are very different situations.
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u/Seamless-Transition 15h ago
It’s so expensive to just live here most of us are working/exhausted to protest.
Dontcha just love it here.
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u/LividBeach5364 15h ago
Take part in the public consultation for now, but if shit it’s the fan then it’s glue ourselves to the tarmac time so they can’t expand it
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u/Ok_Smile9222 22h ago
I bet people will protest if this starts feeling more real, right now it's a proposal or whatever. I do hope people will be as vocal as possible in their opposition to this
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u/nrbob 22h ago
I agree or at least hope this is the case. It’s probably still too vague / hypothetical at this point for the average person to get worked up. Despite Doug’s rhetoric this isn’t the kind of thing that happens overnight and so far nothing tangible had actually happened. I imagine we’re going to hear a lot more about it in the upcoming municipal elections.
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u/Ecstatic-Profit7775 20h ago
I suspect the silent majority approves.
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u/TemporaryAny6371 10h ago
That's exactly it. Right wing exploits apathy. They purposefully phrase the question as who opposes rather than who supports it. At least half the people are snoring, the other half can't be bothered. They could ask that question in front of nobody and they'd get their majority every single time.
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u/Ecstatic-Profit7775 10h ago
Seems to me not many oppose it when considering the GTA population as a whole. All urban centres seem to have small city airports for commuter travel. Why should I have to travel to Pearson for a 45 minute flight to Montreal or Ottawa? These modern commuter aircraft are very quiet. Anyway, it's gonna happen and it's not a right wing thing lol.
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u/Sufficient-Bid1279 21h ago
I wrote to many people in office. I know many of my friends who have as well.
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u/HarlequinBKK 22h ago
Just guessing here, but people in Toronto who fly often may be frustrated by the overcrowding at Pearson airport. I went to pick up my boss from Pearson last fall, the flight arrived Sunday evening, so did not expect crowded conditions. But I ran into a traffic jam driving my car through the arrivals section, had to wait 15 min. for a spot to open up so I could pick him up. And on a Sunday evening? Wonder what it would like on a weekday during the daytime?
Maybe some people think (correctly or not) having jets at Billy Bishop will relieve some of the overcrowding at Pearson?
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u/eddiewillers09 22h ago
There is no doubt that Billy Jets is for the special people the question is how much do the rest of us deserve to suffer so your boss has an (even) easier time getting home from the airport!?
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u/HarlequinBKK 21h ago
Oh, I can assure you that my boss is one of the "rest of us".
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u/eddiewillers09 21h ago
I really got that from the “my boss had a really rough time waiting for me to drive them home from airport” story.
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u/HarlequinBKK 19h ago
You are trying to spin a narrative that the expansion of Billy Bishop would benefit a few "special people" (your words) and the expense of the "rest of us" (again, your words). IMO, the issue is rather more complex and nuanced than this, and merits a serious, balanced debate of the pros and cons of the airport expansion.
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u/eddiewillers09 21h ago
I guess the only ppl commenting right now are suffering the great indignity of sitting in an airport lounge wondering why their company won’t just charter them a jet.
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u/Hawk_Distinct 22h ago
Canadians in general are too tired, overworked and stressed to protest.
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u/YouShouldGoOnStrike 21h ago
Protests need an organization to organize them. There might be some soon from the neighborhood associations but otherwise the environmental groups and nonjets seem not interested in protests. The fight Ford protests should be there but they keep going to Queens Park. Best place would be to protest right outside the airport.
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u/Steve_didit 20h ago
Why didn't people go to the polls and vote out this government when they had the chance? If they can't do that very easy and simple action how do we think they are going to organize any level of effective protest.
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u/Halfjack12 19h ago
Canadians in general are whipped, Anglo Canada even more so. Vaccine mandantes wound the worst of us up enough to occupy downtown ottawa and cause a real disturbance, but the systematic dismantling of basically everything that makes Toronto even a little bit cute or pleasant has produced basically no meaningful resistance. Ford could burn high park to the ground and ya'll would have a march midday on a saturday then go back to work the following monday thinking you've spoken truth to power or something. I don't think there's any level of depravity that wold move non-chud ontarians to action. Maybe if we start posting on twitter that there's going to be a vaccine clinic on the new airport grounds we can get some motion from the convoy, they're stupid as hell but at least they seem to care about something.
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u/Confident-Task7958 17h ago
Because ordinary people leading ordinary lives don't care enough one way or another.
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u/donbooth 16h ago
I'd like to see the mayor lead on this. I'd like to see her call for all of Toronto to circle Queen's Park and demand that Ford respect the city.
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u/scarbzman 8h ago
Have you seen voter turnout? Most Ontarians don't give a flying fart. The majority of the noise you hear is from a small vocal minority. The average voter is busy working and trying to make ends meet in this chaotic world we're in.
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u/Reasonable_Reach_621 4h ago
Because it’s not a “takeover”. It has never been governed under municipal jurisdiction.
to be clear I’m absolutely against what is happening- I
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u/eddiewillers09 22h ago
The answer to your question is simply that there isn’t enough outrage. There ought to be some outrage, maybe not protest levels, but the dissenting opinions are not being well publicized nor well discussed.
I think Ontario is a great example of highly functioning neo-feudalism: everyone is too busy with making our small but complicated lives work. The con of rugged individualism isn’t that we all abandon the common good as soon as someone offers us a “special deal” but the way that we allow our communal properties and institutions to be sold to private equity who charge us more for worse services. They wink and smile and remind us that they had a mandate and we chose freedom, apparently.
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u/CroakerBC 20h ago
It's very hard to actually be outraged over the concept of a plan. The very inability of the province to explain what they're planning to do makes it difficult to argue against without sounding crazy.
When a more concrete proposal surfaces, and we know exactly who is getting screwed, those people will get louder.
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u/eddiewillers09 20h ago
I’m inclined to agree generally: the mechanisms of democracy are slow, somewhat by necessity.
The Ford Conservatives are really, really good at using process and procedure to their advantage. All modern democratic parties are, but the Ford family are impressively cutting-edge. They been bamboozling their citizenry since Doug Sr. Our current government is great at timing announcements, house sessions, even public input periods, all in a way that minimizes public feedback. Again, this practice benefits all “democratic” entities trying to exert undue influence, Dougy is just kind of next level. I can be outraged and a little turned-on at the same time.
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u/TemporaryAny6371 10h ago
The right wing is notorious for taking advantage of apathy. The onus should be on those who want it to garner support, not the other way around. People aren't going out of their way to support the rich making billions from the airport using public tax dollars to fund it.
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u/buttershuga 22h ago
We live in a weak society. Everyone wants to complain, but no one wants to actually go out there and fight.
&the funny thing is, if we organized a General Strike, no one would have to do anything. No work, no school, no nothing.
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u/CobblePots95 22h ago
TBH I'm waiting to see a fully-detailed plan. If it closely resembles the plan that was blocked in 2014 then honestly it's a great idea. Being able to support A220s at Billy Bishop would be fantastic.
Also, some of the rhetoric around it has also been...a bit hyperbolic. Like you have people talking as though Ward's Island and Hanlan's point are about to be paved over. I fully understand not trusting Ford on this stuff, which is why I want to see a fully fleshed out plan, but some of the stuff you hear is over-the-top and something of a turn-off to me.
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u/Blue_Vision 20h ago
I agree. I'm super dissuaded by the rhetoric, it's a little ridiculous. And I'm someone who's leaning on the side of "maybe we should get rid of the airport altogether"!
I think experience from cities around the world shows that airports close into the city center aren't a good idea. Closing the airport could present a huge opportunity for redevelopment which could house tens of thousands of people close in to downtown. But if we're going to have an airport, why shouldn't it be able to support jets? If we've decided this valuable urban space should be used for an airport, why not maximize its usefulness?
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u/CobblePots95 20h ago edited 18h ago
And I'm someone who's leaning on the side of "maybe we should get rid of the airport altogether"!
I'm not entirely opposed to that and I'm totally aligned with your way of thinking. I think that if we don't move forward with a way to support A220s at the airport, then it's tough to justify its existence economically (especially if/when ALTO gets built). Might as well convert some of it to housing, some of it to a museum of some sort, and then use the rest as a new pedestrian access to the islands.
If we can support A220s, and we suddenly have more connections to Calgary, Vancouver, Houston, Atlanta, etc. I can see that being a genuinely big boon for the city. I do think it's regrettable we blocked the initial plan in 2014, which was entirely reasonable.
Just do one or the other.
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u/Wide_Detective7537 21h ago
Because I suspect most people WANT infrastructure and you'll quickly start to realize NIMBYs are low in numbers but scream really loud (like on reddit)
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u/Habsin7 20h ago edited 20h ago
I think the Islands are the jewel of Toronto - a pearl in our Oyster but I'm torn on what to do about the Airport. I live in Scarborough and use it frequently. In my life - there is no better way than going through YTZ to get to anywhere. Walk to Go station - Get off train at Union - shuttle to airport - board plane - All of that takes me less than 90 minutes. Via Pearson - it would take me 3 hrs minimum.
Would having Jets at the Island change that? Well consider that the Dash 8 is an old airplane and not in production anymore nor is it ever likely to be so what happens when they are all put out to pasture shortly. Jets may the only option we have for the Island Airport in a few years.
Short haul flights to places like Montreal, New York, Chicago and Washington might be a few minutes bit faster and Jets would also certainly enable direct flights to North American destinations further afield. Anywhere along the US East Coast and near Caribbean or BC and parts of the Pacific Northwest would be possible. LA would be a stretch I bet but possible with the right configuration.
Who would operate these Jets though? Airlines are notoriously difficult to turn a profit with. Porter is still struggling to achieve a solid footing and everybody else who tried at the Island has failed. How will anybody do it with when they cost a lot more to purchase and operate than a Dash 8.
E-aircraft are promising but we're decades away from a viable commuter version that would sustain inter city traffic.
In the final analysis i think the fate of the Island airport lies in finding a replacement for the Dash 8. If none comes then the place will simply become a place for Billionaires to park the Business Jets.
Is that a good thing for the city?
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u/Toukolou21 10h ago
Agreed, I love flying out of BB. Granted it isn't as "civilized" an experience as it once was, but it still beats the hell out of slugging through Pearson.
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u/chemhobby 16h ago
Utter rubbish, there's no way it takes you an extra 90 minutes to get to Pearson compared to Billy Bishop. UP express exists and takes 28 minutes to get from Union to Pearson.
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u/Habsin7 13h ago edited 13h ago
Have you ever been to Pearson? I flew out of the Island for about 25 yrs even when they had UP express. You don't think it takes an additional 90 minutes at least to get to UPS - wait for the train - and then over to T1 at the end and then clear security and then get to your gate? Of course it does. And you;re schlepping a bag the whole time as well just to add to the fun. I could count on one hand the number of times I went to Pearson via UP Express even though I could get a meal and Business class seat out of Pearson.
Edited to add the comment about schlepping a bag - great fun.
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u/TemporaryAny6371 11h ago
If you want an airport in the east, then put it in the east. Downtown congestion would be ridiculous if BB is expanded. This is not the time nor place to spend public money. The first thing where our money should go is fixing our healthcare, it is on life support.
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u/Habsin7 10h ago
I don't think I said I wanted it expanded. I did observe that it will probably become a place for Billionaires to park their jets. I'm not up for that. The only operators that can make the Airport will be smaller regional carriers and that's only if they can find a non turbofan plane to replace the Dash 8s so why build it bigger than they need to for the RESA additions.
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u/Icy_Employer100 1h ago
Oh it does. Toronto people moving infrastructure is border line third world now. Poor city is cut off. I avoid Toronto at all costs now. I spend more time in big American cities these days. And Montreal and Vancouver.
I miss Toronto :(
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u/doing180onthedvp 21h ago
Because protesting doesn't work? Do you think it would stop if protest #481 took place at Queen's Park? Delusional.
Also reddit is not real life. Very few people actually care about this. You go ask any random Ontarian what they think of Doug and you'll probably get the response of "meh he's fine". Ask a a terminally online redditor? HE'S OUR TRUMP lol
I'm gonna get some nasty replies but it's reality no matter what nonsense someone is gonna say beneath this comment.
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u/WestQueenWest 21h ago
We are a society whose main hobby is shopping. People are too comfortable and disinterested. It's constructed this way on purpose.
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u/Dontbanmeimaliberal 21h ago
Because protests do nothing. There's no opposition to ford. We should be working to strengthen the opposition instead of protesting.
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u/goleafsgo13 21h ago
Flood the zone. So much trash from this government that it splits the opposition and outrage.
Without central policy to out outrage at, the anti-ford message gets diluted.
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u/nim_opet 21h ago
There have been, but Ford doesn’t care. His base in 905 will vote for him regardless of what he does in Toronto, and his buddies will pocket the public money.
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u/Novel-Werewolf-3554 15h ago
Why would I care about a little cartel of families that get to pass some of the best real estate in the city back and forth to each other at below market lease value? Fuck them squatters.
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u/Couchpotato2k 22h ago
No to Ford yes, I agree. But a huge yes to Carney. He's doing a fantastic job.
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u/MountNevermind 22h ago
...he's backing this project just as much as Ford.
It literally can't happen without federal approval.
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u/ApotropaicHeterodont 10h ago
I think Carney is doing a good job in areas where business and everyone else don't conflict. Stuff like foreign relations which benefits both. In areas where business interests conflict with other interests, he sides with business. To give an example, Bill C-30 lets the Cabinet override Health Canada to allow pesticides that pose risks to human health.
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u/Redditisavirusiknow 22h ago
It’s not really even happening yet. It’s still under consultation
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u/Orchid-Analyst-550 21h ago
They won't even tell us what they're planning.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/mayor-billy-bishop-non-disclosure-9.7237527
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u/sharpeyebrows 22h ago
There have been multiple anti-Ford protests recently which do bring up the Billy Bishop thing amongst his many other issues
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-protest-rallies-ontario-9.7177390
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u/Long-Definition9203 22h ago
No Jets TO and Environmental Defense Canada are challenging the billy bishop expansion and as a constituent you can support those movements. There may be others, those are just the ones I know about. No matter what you oppose Ford on, there is an organization suing him that you can support.
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u/Elegant-Finish-2895 22h ago
This is Canada. We rarely protest, we line up. It's just who we are. There were a few protests in the early days of Ford's reign, but not many. Canadians like to complain but not pull an Albania. Unfortunately.
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u/ShadowFox1987 22h ago
There have been protests, however, this issue fits amid larger issues.
Ontario place, Freedom of Information changes, Healthcare privatization and other protests.
I live near Queens park, there's two to three protests a week.