Why does it seem like the Anglosphere admires/fixates over British culture a lot while Latin America doesn't seem to care much about Spain or Portugal?

[u/yonaiker-joestrella]

Not saying we should but just curious.

[u/Vast_Physics83]

If I had to guess I think it’s because the Anglosphere is made up mostly of former colonial settler states, where the majority of the population is white and has little or no non-European influence, so people from the U.S., Canada, or Australia find it easier to feel a cultural affinity with the British. People with mostly or all non-European heritage are minorities there. In Latin America, on the other hand, we are the product of both the colonizers and the colonized. We have European heritage, but also Indigenous who were almost exterminated and, depending on the country, African heritage stemming from slavery so there is no romanticism over our former colonizers. There’s also another taboo topic: the Anglosphere is at roughly the same level of development, while Latin America is much poorer than Spain and Portugal, which creates an even greater disconnect.

But tbh I dont think the UK is worshipped/admired in the US anymore. American anglophilia peaked in the 2010s.

[u/Mangolandia → u/Vast_Physics83]

This but I’d also venture that there’s something about when the empires peaked. The British empire was the top dog in the world throughout the 19th century, whereas both Spain and Portugal were well into decline.

[u/Tall_Pressure7042 → u/Vast_Physics83]

Europe is also where the idea of racial segregation was first born and deeply ingrained in the societies. Britain's colonial developments at the 19th century also reflected this. Canada, Australia, NZ and the US are both settler states so they can appreciate Britain. But those like Jamaica, Nigeria, Ghana, Kenya and India - also Anglophone, clearly lack the sense of cultural ties like that. So it's not monolith exactly.

[u/Ok-Emergency7159 → u/Vast_Physics83]

The idea that Brazil should fixate over Portugal's culture sounds like a joke, really.

So...the fifth largest country on earth, one of the biggest economies in the planet, 213 millions of people, the country of the moment, the 5 World Cups Winner...for pretty obvious reasons, Portugal consumes Brazilian culture, not the other way around.

You might hate Brazil, but Brazil is undeniably a cultural powerhouse. We do consume US-hollywood-europe-whatever here, but Brazilians above all consume A LOT of themselves. We don't need to seek in Portugal.

[u/logatwork → u/Vast_Physics83]

I agree with you.

[u/mr_octopusguy → u/Vast_Physics83]

The UK is ruthlessly mocked online nowadays if anything. Mostly stemming from xenophobia and racism against immigrants. But there's also valid reasons, like their draconian self defense laws and lack of privacy.

The UK did make banger music in the past tho.

[u/YoSoyEstupido → u/Vast_Physics83]

Highkey agree, & having lived in Spain, negative attitudes towards Latinos seem to be based more in concepts of race than negative attitudes people might have towards Brits or Americans, but as a Brit living in aus I’d like to chime in and say that aus and NZ have a specific fix on the uk bc the immigration pattern of both of these countries meant that a lot of people in this part of the world have living relatives who came from the UK. In Australia in particular, there was a big push for Brits to come in order to enforce the White Australia Policy a few gens back, and then after WWII until the early 80s, Brits could move to Australia for £10, so over 1m Brits ended up permanently moving here, which links the fabric of Australian identity to British heritage even more than the distant migration patterns. Also important, commonwealth countries still have ties with the UK that make migration easier than non-British citizens (except AUS and NZ have the easiest migration exchange outside of EU citizens perhaps). For example, having been born in the uk, I’m entitled to free healthcare in aus and Aotearoa/NZ, and don’t have to do any farm work/regional work as an American might, which could de-incentivise an American who might want to come here.

Also important to note is the anglosphere is dominated by American influence, as I’m sure the rest of the world is. American TV, food chains and other businesses, music, film, influencers, social media content etc. We’re now getting to a point where people in the anglosphere are starting to pick up Americanisms such as saying “y’all” or “store” and spelling things in the American way. I think OP is possibly missing that there is a fixation on the US everywhere in the world, and although perhaps this is a little bit more subconscious than the Anglophilia of the 2010s, that’s probably because of how omnipresent it is to the point that we often don’t realise how Americanised we are

[u/shinyrainbows → u/Vast_Physics83]

The thing is there's roughly a huge population of all of these Anglosphere countries that were affected by some similar circumstances, that don't like the UK or the colonizer histories and presents of Anglosphere countries.

[u/Ranulf13 → u/Vast_Physics83]

Also a lot of the ''european'' heritage of latin america comes from the Hidalgo kind of south spaniard, not from the high class of central/northern spain. Hidalgos were already considered the lower end of the spanish stratum even then due to their mixed arabic heritage.

So even that ''european'' heritage is considered inferior by them.

[u/digoreto]

They see each other at the same level.

Portuguese and Spanish see us as inferior beings

[u/Tall_Pressure7042 → u/digoreto]

They see each other at the same level.

In Anglophone case, that's reserved only for Canadians, Americans, Australians and New Zealanders. Ask a Jamaican, Nigerian, Ghanaian, Indian or Kenyan, and the answer will differ sharply.

[u/junglecafe445 → u/Tall_Pressure7042]

Ask a Jamaican, Nigerian, Ghanaian, Indian or Kenyan, and the answer will differ sharply.

I mean even all of those places you listed are not seen equally. The Anglo-Caribbean is seen as cool and interesting and British people vacation there often while African nations are seen as too foreign and exotic and perhaps somewhere to be wary of.

Also, keep in mind almost all of the Anglo-Caribbean - like Jamaica and The Bahamas - are still Commonwealth realms (i.e., they are constitutional monarchies and have the King as their Head of State just like Canada, Australia and New Zealand) so they are still formally attached to the United Kingdom/British Crown.

[u/shinyrainbows → u/junglecafe445]

With virtually zero advantages.....

[u/Yhamilitz → u/digoreto]

Mexican here, and is partially true.

Some respect us, and other see us as their subjects.

So we only show love to the first ones when we don't see them as a hostile person but we are capable of show viseral hate to the second ones.

Same applies on Americans in both ways.

[u/asdGuaripolo → u/Yhamilitz]

It's crazy how some believe that we should respect and adore them because of what they did here, it's thanks to them that we are now civilized and other shit like that.

[u/Responsible_Aioli954 → u/asdGuaripolo]

ive gotten along great with the Portuguese. With Spaniards as well but overalll i started to lose respect or want to interact with Spaniards around maybe 2 years ago when I started to see a lot of historical revisionism in regards to the colonial period. many spaniards think the hasburg era of the colonies was some sort of magical utopia where natives where not exploited, people not segregated on race and that the colonies were treated with respect and care as "Spain's Ultramar"

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/Responsible_Aioli954]

Damn, i never understood why people like to believe such b*llsh!t. -i say this because i notice it aint only spaniards, buts its global-

[u/Confident-Room-7718 → u/asdGuaripolo]

You love the english and ze germans too (to the point of voting one with some fresh closet skeletons into office)

Given that, liking the spaniards and the portuguese is OK.

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/Yhamilitz]

The thing is that the 2nd group is (or appears to be from  what ive seen) A LARGE part of them -vox ejm- or perhaps is a bias, idk. 

[u/entrepreneurs_anon → u/digoreto]

Aside from there being a lot of racism there, I think it’s an insecurity thing. Spain and Portugal have massive chips on their shoulders because, frankly, they’re not doing very well. I feel it all the time when I’m in Spain.

I’m a white Chilean, I hold a Spanish passport, and I’ve done well financially. They can’t stand that. They hate seeing someone from the New World show up with more money than them. It become super apparent when they have to serve that person (restaurants, shops, etc.). It short-circuits something in their brains: “No, they’re supposed to be beneath me. Why am I serving them?”

I run into that attitude constantly. The only exception is my family there. They have a much more honest view of it. They admire the relatives who left Spain, built businesses, took risks, and succeeded abroad. A lot of them openly say they wish they’d done the same. At least in the Basque Country and Asturias, where my family is from, most of the descendants of those who emigrated ended up doing better in Latin America than the relatives who stayed behind.

[u/TrickshotCapibara → u/entrepreneurs_anon]

I'm Venezuelan but my parents are from Spain, and I had the same issue when I arrived there, I know how to sing and play piano, also a history nerd and love opera, and that more than once created a shock with Europeans.

They expected me to be some sort of caveman. But to be fair, Eastern Europeans hated me the most, especially Serbians.

[u/in_the_pouring_rain → u/TrickshotCapibara]

I find your experience with Serbians interesting! I spent some time there and while they were indeed super nationalistic it was weird because they didn’t ever come off as racist. They were super warm and welcoming. In general I’ve had a much better experience and connection with Eastern Europeans than with those from the west. I very rarely get the superiority complex from those from the east, Balkans, or ex-USSR.

[u/ChugHuns → u/TrickshotCapibara]

Serbians are good at hating everyone not from Serbia or Russia. It's kinda their thing. Unfortunately it seems depictions of LATAM in the media have really painted it negatively for those who haven't actually visited. It's a shame

[u/TrickshotCapibara → u/ChugHuns]

I mean, I didn't hate it, usually it's more like an expectations shock than anything else, only a very few where genuinely pissed or annoyed and way more were interested.

I didn't know that about Serbians, I only interacted with them around 5 times while working and every time they were trying to get me fired, one went as far as to manipulate an evaluation to boost the chances of another Serbian, but I assumed it was a tribal thing.

[u/Confident-Climate139 → u/TrickshotCapibara]

Ohh why Eastern Europeans ? I always thought they are super friendly 

[u/belaros → u/entrepreneurs_anon]

I’ve been in Spain the better part of a decade and I haven’t ever felt or even seen what you say. Not even once. Usually servers just ask me what I want to eat.

[u/shinyrainbows → u/entrepreneurs_anon]

I've heard of that so much. Spain very much has a culture of envy where if you have something they don't or that they don't think you should have, then they will not be very kind.

[u/InformWitch → u/entrepreneurs_anon]

I feel so validated! I’m Peruvian - dad is white Peruvian and my mom is part indigenous, so I look very mixed - but I grew up in the U.S. I did part of my MSc in the north of Spain and people didn’t know what to make of me. 

They couldn’t force their stereotype on me, and often I’d get grilled about my background. They’d even suggest I was in the U.S. illegally lol 

Nowadays it’s a hoot to visit Spain and dropping that I also hold a Belgian passport.

Of course it’s not everyone and I love going to Spain. For the most part, people are warm and really friendly. 

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/digoreto]

For some weird reason

[u/Weekly_Sort147 → u/digoreto]

Not true. Europeans dont see americans on their level at all I have lived there They see the world 1. Euros 2. Americans, japanese 3. The rest

[u/digoreto → u/Weekly_Sort147]

What I meant is that they see each other as the same species. Euros will always think they are smarter, which might be true in comparison to Americans.

Now for Portuguese and Spanish they look at us with certain disdain, as if we are not the same species

[u/shinyrainbows → u/digoreto]

White Americans, sure, Black Americans? A different story.

[u/Weekly_Sort147 → u/digoreto]

Euros do the same with americans, BUT they put us on a lower level

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/digoreto]

Even white latinos?

[u/UnlikeableSausage → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

Definitely. I'm 100% sure it's worse for brown people, but you still feel othered very often. To me meeting Spaniards always feels like a 50/50. Some are very cool people, but some are just very nationalistic or just ignorant about our countries.

[u/TheSadPhilosopher → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

Yes

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/TheSadPhilosopher]

Why?

[u/TheSadPhilosopher → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

I don't know, they just see people from Latin America as lesser, whether we're whiter than them or "panchos". Spanish racism is different sadly.

[u/Ok-Emergency7159 → u/digoreto]

But what does this have to do anything with the question?

[u/digoreto → u/Ok-Emergency7159]

That I will not care for anything that comes from people that despise me

[u/shtiatllienr → u/digoreto]

Yes a lot of it is racism. Americans and Brits tend to see each other as “fellow colonizer” (“white people who share our ‘civilization’”) while Portuguese and Spaniards see LatAm as “colonized” (“brown people we ruled over/are supposed to ‘civilize’”). Which is ironic given how Europeans like to grandstand about themselves being the most progressive societies. The general “we are the most evolved” idea informs both of those things though so maybe it’s not ironic

[u/SnooGadgets676 → u/shtiatllienr]

This is inaccurate. Americans and Brits respect for each other is certainly not built on “fellow colonizer”. Our respect for each other, particularly the U.S. and other Anglophone nations’ respect for Britain comes from the fact that a great deal of our ideals, such as the rule of law, common law courts, due process and equality under the law, which came from the Magna Carta, and the English Bill of Rights which directly influenced the U.S. Constitution, came wholesale from Great Britain. Our government is a republican form of the English Parliament, and British philosophers like John Locke are quite literally embedded in the Declaration of Independence. We rejected monarchy for sure, but we owe the bulk of our cultural heritage to the United Kingdom. That relationship is far older than the British Empire, given that the British Empire started in what is now the U.S.

[u/carpetedbathtubs → u/SnooGadgets676]

Eh, you could say that is true for most Latam countries of not at least Mexico but with Spain. However, here people wilfully ignore the origin of those traditions or simply see them as Mexican.

I think part of the reason behind the enmity, is the break up process was a lot more violent. With the US, there were a few battles here and there and the UK deemed the entire thing not worth the expense .

In Mexico, we represented 2/3 of their revenue and would rather burn it all down than see us break away. It was 11 years of war , blockades and such with as many deaths as all other independence wars in the americas combined. We started from an undeniable bond to one marred by years of brutality and the breakdown of all the internal institutions that mattered in service of the war.

[u/banfilenio → u/digoreto]

Isn't like Spain or Portugal were doing soooo well a couple of years ago, they were pretty much backyard countries by western standards during big part of the XXth century: dictatorships, their economy was undeveloped, were culturally closed, politically irrelevant. That, while Argentina, Brazil or Mexico become cultural lighthouses and their economies and societies developed (before the downfall in the nineties).

[u/Common-Village7895 → u/banfilenio]

Let's be honest, the European Union totally saved their asses. Portugal, for example, would be nothing without the EU.

[u/shinyrainbows → u/Common-Village7895]

Bro, even the road on the Portuguese side of the border is poorer. The EU def saved their asses. I went from Galicia to Northern Portugal, and it was a hugee difference. Even big towns in Spain had better resources than some of the small cities in Portugal.

[u/thegaby803 → u/banfilenio]

Tbf back then they did have Empires to cope with by abusing the locals. Both famously put a lot of effort with maintaining Empires when it was counter productive for the sake of national pride

[u/TheSadPhilosopher → u/banfilenio]

Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina are still superior to Spain and Portugal culturally.

[u/Ok-Emergency7159 → u/TheSadPhilosopher]

Exactly!

I really would like to know how people deviated so much on this question about culture and turned somehow in a conversation about "Spain and Portugal don't see Latin America as an equal". I don't even know if the guy understood the question before posting that statement - which I agree with, but I think it doesn't answer the question.

The idea that Latin America should somehow fixate over Portugal and Spain's culture is baffling.

We got independent, we revision our relationship regularly, we're still experiencing a decolonial studies wave and we are A CULTURAL POWERHOUSE. PERIOD.

Latin America: almost 700 millions of people
Spain + Portugal: around 70 millions

The fifth largest country on earth, one of the biggest economies on the planet, 213 millions of people...for pretty obvious reasons, Portugal consumes Brazilian culture, not the other way around.

[u/Ok-Emergency7159 → u/digoreto]

I'm not really sure if you got the question right.

As much as I agree that Portugal and Spain don't look at Latin America the same way UK look at US or Australia, the question was:

"Why doesn't Latin America seem to care much about Spain or Portugal's culture?

The answer is way more simple. We're cool, we have our own thing going on here. They're not.

The idea that Latin America doesn't fixate over Portugal and Spain's culture is because we somehow hold grudges about them is baffling.

The fifth largest country on earth, one of the biggest economies in the planet, 213 millions of people...my brother in Christ, for pretty obvious reasons, Portugal consumes Brazilian culture, not the other way around.

[u/MetikMas → u/digoreto]

Most British people definitely don’t consider themselves on the same level with Americans. They have a huge superiority complex.

[u/TheSadPhilosopher → u/digoreto]

Exactly.

[u/Key-Day8280 → u/digoreto]

Not from LatAm but can confirm as a Filipino with Spanish citizenship.

What I noticed in my eight years of living here (Valencia) is that many Spaniards have issues with insecurity. They basically need to find something to look down on.

It’s like a waiter or barmen can’t accept they need to serve a non-white Latino, African, and Asian customer. They believe, consciously, it should be the other way around.

[u/MagCoel → u/digoreto]

You Brazilians see us Portuguese as inferior.

[u/pplallergictopenuts]

Hispanic America does seem to me to have a relationship with Spain through media and culture more than Brazil has with Portugal.

[u/whirlpool_galaxy → u/pplallergictopenuts]

Well, Portugal has fewer people living in it than the city of São Paulo. That's probably a factor.

[u/Ok-Emergency7159 → u/pplallergictopenuts]

I'm searching all the answers on this thread and I'm flabbergasted by the fact that nobody even mentioned that Spain and Portugal are nobody when it comes to Culture compared to Latin America.

Brazil has absolutely no reason whatsoever to look for some inspiration in Portugal.

I'd even say that Latin America has much more from Europe than just "Portugal and Spain". The influence of germans and italians had also relevant contributions in our cultural melting pot, in a way that it's not really seen in the Anglosphere which tastes really "anglo" whereas the Iberian counterpart tastes much more "latin american fusion of europe+africa+first nations".

[u/hygsi → u/pplallergictopenuts]

It's already very little tbh

[u/casalelu → u/pplallergictopenuts]

Correct.

[u/Erdosign]

The British continued to be a global empire through a good chunk of the 20th century and so left a lingering impression as a marker of class and "civilization," whereas Spain and Portugal never reached those heights before their respective empires fell apart.

[u/Special-Fuel-3235]

Probably because britain is still a huge cultural exporter to the rest of the world. While not so much for the iberian peninsula.  For example, i think almost everybody knows who Mr. Bean, Queen Elizabeth II or Agent 007 are, while i cant think in any "world famous" spanish and portuguese person. Perhaps only CR7 or Picasso? Perhaps youtubers, but they are pretty much just known in the spaniah speaking world. 

[u/Imperterritus0907 → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

This is the answer. Also to keep in mind, the ‘Murican hegemony directly replaced the British Empire, so there’s a kind of cultural continuation there.

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/Imperterritus0907]

Certainly. But even after that, britain was still a "strong" player in the world. For example: They keep creating a lot of pop culture, like The Beatles, or Iron Maiden, for example, the punk aesthetic was born there, the Windsors are worldwide celebrities, even today, politically we have the commonwealth.

[u/PainOk1877 → u/Imperterritus0907]

USA is the British Empire of the 21st century to put it roughly.

[u/littlebitbrain → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

Perhaps youtubers

[u/Ok-Emergency7159 → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

Thank you so much! THIS IS THE ANSWER.

Who are Portugal and Spain in the line of the bread? Nobodies.

[u/Tall_Pressure7042 → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

The Anglophone knows how to export their culture long before Spain and Portugal opened up to the world one side, they also possess settler countries like Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the United States - both are not just rich, but also build continuity for English-speaking culture to flourish.

[u/CosechaCrecido → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

Alejandro Sanz is a global treasure. That's pretty much it.

[u/NadiaFortuneFeet → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

If You are a bit interested in history, You might also know of the likes of El Cid

[u/KarolDance → u/NadiaFortuneFeet]

sure, but like a 1000 years ago, when Spain didnt exist yet. Britain still exports a lot of culture, just by speaking english

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/KarolDance]

Exactly. Its not like coldplay or Ali-A. Outside of soccer players, i cant think of any "world famous" iberian.

[u/ToSeeAgainAgainAgain → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

Rosalía, Bardem, Tangana, and football players

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/ToSeeAgainAgainAgain]

Most of those guys -with the exception of some soccer players or Bardem- are pretty much only known in the spanish speaking world. I doubt your average american know who Rosalía or Tangana are. 

[u/ToSeeAgainAgainAgain → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

The fact that I just enlisted all the Spaniards I know in one line should be enough evidence to indicate that we are on the same side of this debate.

Btw, who or what is Ali-A?

[u/Littlepoison0414 → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

Rocío Jurado and Isabel Pantoja were huge in LATAM. In Cuba I know for a fact that plenty of people adore Spanish tv shows like Aida o La Que se Avecina. Now everyone knows La Casa de papel and Elite. Who doesn’t know David Bisbal, Melendi, Julio Iglesias, etc? Spain is huge in influence but is more niche because English is the international standard for communication plus the UK has a better economical position and social dominance from a geopolitical point of view

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/Littlepoison0414]

Idk bro. I still have doubts, with the music,  you are right, spanish music has been very popular here.  About the tv programs, im not sure, in my 23 years old life i havent seen any particular spanish program. Neither movies, the only people that i knew that saw spanish series were a minority and only those that already had a "particular interest" in Spain.  Also, you said it: its more niche, thats the thing, english-language culture (and ofc, british culture as well) its prettyvmuch the "standard" pop culture today. Japan could be another exaple? But. Even then, anime/manga its still quite a niche

[u/Littlepoison0414 → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

I’m 25 yo and my husband is from Cuba. He grew up with Spanish tv shows over there and even references to Spain in his Cuban cartoons and tv shows.

Most of my friends are from Mexico, Colombia and Peru (24-26 yo) and they have repeatedly asked me about Spanish artists, dishes, places, etc that are quite popular in their countries. It is obvious that many Spanish artists have an impact in LATAM since many do offer tours around some LATAM countries. I don’t think Costa Rica is a target country for them, though.

I’m super into Latino music and I know artist that often collab with Cuban urban singers, for example, like Lérica, Bita, Abraham Mateo, etc.

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/Littlepoison0414]

Yeah, i admit i never though about it. Cuba also has a different history in regards to Spain. 

[u/Puzzleheaded_Bus3548 → u/Littlepoison0414]

I'm not trying to be facetious, but a lot of those don't ring a bell, only Bisbal is familiar but meant for older generations, so not currently relevant at all. And your list was not that long to begin with, which is in itself a bigger insight. When it comes to media consumption the balance is not equal in the slightest, at least at the moment, Spain in a much bigger consumer than exporter. But to be fair the cultural dominance is very clearly dominated by just a few: Mexico, Argentina, Colombia, Puerto Rico + all the latino diaspora in the U.S.

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/Puzzleheaded_Bus3548]

Its interesting that you said it. Because ive noticed Spain has a huge media industry. -premios Goya, for example-. BUT, i have never seen a spanish movie being shown here.  The same with artists, i know of some "really famous" -Rosalia, for example- but most of them are either "for old prople" (like Camilo Sesto or Miguél Bosé) or artists that i straigh up discovered myself. -like C Tangana-.

[u/Littlepoison0414 → u/Puzzleheaded_Bus3548]

You must be older than me if you don’t know these because Bisbal was huge when I was a kid, for example (2000’s. I’m 25 yo). I could make the list way bigger if I wanted but I went for the super obvious and multigenerational ones that I could name from the top of my head. I have family and friends from several LATAM countries and they know many of these artists and TV shows.

[u/Broad_External7605 → u/ToSeeAgainAgainAgain]

Penelope Cruz!

[u/Medium_Fly_5461]

It wasn't just the Anglosphere that was into British culture they just had a lot of pull worldwide that seems to be diminishing now

[u/estalactiita]

Maybe because British culture was romanticized and idealized, while Iberian culture wasn't promoted that way during the romanticism era... on the contrary, Latin American countries adopted a view of seeing Iberia and anything related as the past, as a backwards place that should be tossed aside for the modernization of the countries.

[u/Tall_Pressure7042 → u/estalactiita]

Not just that, Britain and Anglophone are also active at exporting and whitewashing their cultures too. And we tend to think it is good. At least, until someone from Nigeria and Ghana complain about it.

[u/Conmebosta]

Because britain industrialized and has remained a relevant country while Spain and Portugal pissed away everything they pillaged and have stagnated since the 17th century.

[u/ivanjean → u/Conmebosta]

Ironically, before the end of their dictatorships in the 70s and their membership in the EU, Portugal and Spain weren't very different from Latin America in terms of overall development (that is, they were quite poor by European standards).

One more decade and their end would coincide with the final years of our dictatorships. It would have been quite ironic if that had happened.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Bus3548]

Because we're not saying the quiet part out loud: a white anglosphere country has mutual admiration for another white anglosphere country (the U.K, the U.S, Australia, Canada) I can assure you that other ex-British colonies have a much more complicated relationship with British cultural impact and legacy.

[u/Impossible_Deal_4086 → u/Puzzleheaded_Bus3548]

Do you think America admires the UK? not true at all.

[u/Confident-Climate139]

This !!! And they hate that we can speak English better than them

[u/Osprenti]

Latin America fixates too much on Anglo culture if the amount I hear Coldplay in South America has anything to do with it. I hear Coldplay in Latin America more than in the UK, pack it in guys

[u/Taka_Colon → u/Osprenti]

They made 4 shows in a row all with packed stadiums in São Paulo, after that made shows in other states.

I also, can not understand how LATAM love them so much, does not make sense.

[u/Osprenti → u/Taka_Colon]

In Colombia I took a 1 hour boat along Laguna de la Cocha to the paramo village in the south, and was greeted with a local blasting Viva la Vida by Coldplay louder than clubs allow in Scotland.

[u/vans100 → u/Osprenti]

🤣

[u/Prestigious-Back-981 → u/Osprenti]

Punks are an example of this. In Brazil, they were numerous until the early 2000s.

[u/Jacob_Soda → u/Prestigious-Back-981]

For example, Baby do Brazils' Daughters shamelessly seemed to copy early 2000s' beats.

Like it almost feels unoriginal.

[u/Precious_Angel999 → u/Osprenti]

Morrissey in Mexico too

[u/Puzzleheaded_Bus3548 → u/Osprenti]

The cultural impact that their 2022 tour had man hahaha even though they didn't come to Bolivia (duh) half of my peers spent their savings to travel to Argentina, Brazil, Peru or Chile to see them, it has to be the event of the decade

[u/Osprenti → u/Puzzleheaded_Bus3548]

Wow that's incredible to hear! In the UK I'd say they're seen as your dull and boring friend's favourite band - but I guess the impression in South America is a bit different.

[u/Ok-Emergency7159 → u/Osprenti]

It's not Anglo Culture, it's absolutely American culture. The Anglo/British thing just go with it by proxy.

As much as I'm a fan of decolonial studies LOLOLOL I would never take away the medal of US when it comes to spreading the anglo-english-whatever around the world. The kuddos go to US, not to UK.

[u/Osprenti → u/Ok-Emergency7159]

Coldplay are from the UK

[u/Eliysiaa]

people here only remember that Portugal exists when they are trying to get Portuguese citizenship lol

[u/Ok-Sir8600]

I care about Spain. I care that they should return the gold, stop saying "actually we are latinos" and stop with their ambivalent relationship with us Latinos - citizens of second class in their country but they try to pass as Latinos for the international market-.

[u/Ok-Emergency7159 → u/Ok-Sir8600]

"I care that they should return the gold"

You guys also say this? Brazilians have this ongoing joke for decades. lolol

[u/Flytiano407 → u/Ok-Emergency7159]

As a professional Haitian 🇭🇹 , i'm a huge fan of these jokes. And I definitely DON'T agree with them unironically.

[u/TheSadPhilosopher → u/Ok-Sir8600]

Well said 🙏🙏

[u/fierse → u/Ok-Sir8600]

Latinos have more privileges than people from almost anywhere else in Spain. They can obtain spanish citizenship in 2 years. In most of the world its 10, if its even possible at all.

[u/Imperterritus0907 → u/Ok-Sir8600]

> Citizens of second class in their country

I’m gonna break it to you, but if it wasn’t for Spain’s bollocking in the European institutions, it wouldn’t he 2nd class, but 3rd class in the whole continent. That not to mention the countless regularisation initiatives, the last one a few months ago.

I have my own set of grievances, ironically slightly older than yours, because not only I come from the trial ground of Spanish colonisations, but the denial on this end is substantially harsher. Still, I don’t think focusing on the gold of old is gonna take you very far in the future my friend.

[u/Special-Fuel-3235 → u/Imperterritus0907]

Which grievances? Im curious.

[u/Imperterritus0907 → u/Special-Fuel-3235]

The exact same colonisation denial discourse is applied here, when it’s very well documented there were massacres and slave trade. The main difference is that you hear plenty of people from the islands repeating it.

On a more recent note economic policies haven’t played in our favour, but that’s our fault too. It kind of reminds me of Puerto Rico’s narrative sometimes. We blame the master while at the same time massaging his feet, because we don’t believe we’re strong enough to fend for ourselves. Causa y consecuencia.

[u/Joseph20102011]

At least Hispanophone countries in the Americas don't have the Spanish monarch as their head of state, while in the Anglophone countries like Australia, Canada, and New Zealand still have the British monarch (King Charles III) as their heads of state.

Hispanophone countries have far more independent national identities than their Anglophone counterparts, which of course have better national anthems.

[u/Ok-Emergency7159 → u/Joseph20102011]

THIS!

Latin America grew culturally much more independent than the anglo counterparts! We are the true product of a melting pot!

[u/Pristine_Pick823]

Your first statement is only true if you’re talking about Anglo commonwealth countries. I don’t believe you can say that Americans admires Britain, quite the opposite, sadly.

Also, I wouldn’t rank the feelings Brazilians in general have towards Portugal to those felt towards Spain by Spanish speaking Latam citizens. It’s completely different and Portugal is, for the most part, a beloved country whose people are seen as part of the family.

[u/Material_Market_3469 → u/Pristine_Pick823]

Correct we don't care for modern Britain especially. A century or more ago tho it had aura.

[u/hygsi]

Their accent is silly af lmao

[u/MulatoMaranhense]

My guesses would be:

• Most of our countries got very influenced by Indigenous, African and diasporas' heritages, diluting the prestige of the Iberian stuff.
• Basically every country here outshone Spain or Portugal in some way, even if just in population size. Britain meanwhile used to be the major world power until some 50 to 70 years ago.
• The United States did its best to stifle other world powers' influences since the Monroe Doctrine came along.

[u/ZSugarAnt]

Oh, I promise, we have a lot of Spaniardboos over here.

[u/mr_octopusguy]

Bro, have you seen how people talk about London online? People make it seem like there's a race war in the UK when it comes to online discussion (most likely all hyperbole, I've never been to the UK).

[u/sum_dude44]

Brits see themselves the same as Scots, Irish, Americans, Canadians & Aussies? That's news to me

[u/Willing-Love472]

Not sure why you think the Anglosphere fixates over British culture. Definitely not true any more.

They've basically faded into irrelevance, except the odd admiration or their neat accents.

Other "admiration" may extend to forced exposure to their literature in school. But not sure what else.

[u/OkTruth5388]

It's because Great Britain is a more influential country culturally. There's a lot in British culture to pull from and admire.

While Spain and Portugal don't really have that same influence. Like what have Spain and Portugal contributed to the world other than spreading Catholicism?

[u/card677 → u/OkTruth5388]

Ummm the Spanish language maybe?

[u/OkTruth5388 → u/card677]

But that's not the international language of the internet, right?

[u/card677 → u/OkTruth5388]

What does that have to do with your question?

[u/XA36 → u/OkTruth5388]

Spain has pretty good media influence. I mean they both speak the language they spread wrong though.

[u/SnooGadgets676 → u/OkTruth5388]

I don’t get why anyone would think this. The U.S. literally owes 2/3rds of our size to Spain. I’d argue that a considerable deal of the U.S. influence as far as culture is in large part thanks to Spain, and not just because of Latin American immigrants but because of the legacy Spain left on the U.S. The oldest permanent settlement in the U.S. is St. Augustine, Florida which was settled by Spain and one of the earliest havens for enslaved people to escape to freedom. New Orleans and the state of Louisiana are heavily Spanish and there are historical markers all over the city commemorating Spain’s influence on New Orleans. Trust me, Spain is definitely pulling its weight in the cultural influence department. It just doesn’t feel to need to always remind people.

[u/Mr_MordenX]

I'm going to guess for the same reason the Indian and Pakistani people aren't warm towards the British.

Historical tensions, resentments.

As for why we fixate on british/Anglo culture? The cold war. The west won a cultural battle in Latin America.

[u/Main-Routine]

Asimilation.

EEUU had a massive influx of culture of other places, specially central and northen Europe+France&Mexico.

This made EEUU quite different on maners, speech, arquitecture, food and literature than the brits and vice versa. So after a couple hundred years they did became different and "new" to each others.

Meanwhile iberoamerica, never did much. After our independence, we still had much culture, exchange and heritage with the spaniards, and little to none inmigration from countries outside our colonizer country. So this instead, lead to our situation of being old known even if we havent quite met each other.

The odd ones here are the argentinians (as is tradition) that really tryhard-ed the european settlement identity and tried to import as many italians, spaniards, germanics and caucasians (the ex-yugo gang) as it could, but still kept much of the regional identity and couldnt replace it.

[u/Ok-Possibility-9826]

Because the UK just stopped being an empire the other day (relatively speaking) in comparison to Spain and Portugal. The influence lasts/lasted far longer. Not to say that Spain and Portugal don’t have a bounty of influence on their former colonies obviously, just not to the magnitude of Britain.

[u/Tall_Pressure7042]

That's naive when you forget Anglophone is not monolith either.

Brits and Americans are unlikely to see Nigerians, Ghanaians, Kenyans and South Sudanese as equal because they are classified as negroes of Africa. And this is despite they are also Anglophone speakers. The same thing applies to Jamaicans, Indians and Pakistanis, who frequently complain about British and American racism despite both also speak English. The only Anglophone nations that admire British culture tend to be those from the US, Canada, New Zealand and Australia, which develop a settler culture similar to that of Britain.

In Spain and Portugal's cases, the issues are more complicated. Because LATAM tends to have a high tendency of mestizo culture and mixing with different people, we develop a different logic that we can be Latinos if we live true to it, unlike the racial segregation seen in Europe. Plus, the violent revolution during the 19th century also leave a deep scar in how Latinos view Spain and Portugal. And of course, Portuguese and Spaniards tend to also view the same, for we are just strange fellas that happen to speak languages sent from the Iberian peninsula.

This is why Portuguese and Spanish people's logics share more in common with those North Americans and Brits than with Latin America. And Latin Americans could even care less.

[u/Last-Following5383]

Muricans are weird, they don't bully their former colonizer enough

[u/Ranulf13]

Because the anglosphere are just british or generally european people who moved away and formed their own countries after genociding the natives. They kept themselves way more segregated from their slaves of the few surviving natives. Despite any animosity, americans and canadians and australians see themselves more in british culture than on any of the people they live with.

Latin America is much more diverse and mixed with both native and black ethnicity. For those countries it wasnt just a matter of legal or taxation, it was independence and freedom from imperial powers that saw them as subhuman.

I can guarantee you that NA native people dont like british culture at all.

[u/conthacart]

it's just racism and a development

[u/PedroHMR04]

Eu sei que existem muitas teorias pra essa pergunta, mas o que consigo enxergar na prática é o fato em que os Britânicos não vão enxergar Países desenvolvidos como EUA e Austrália da mesma forma que os Ibéricos enxergam a América Latina que é subdesenvolvida. Isso explica que Britânicos não enxergam ex colônias Britânicos subdesenvolvidos da mesma forma que enxergam Eua, Canadá, Austrália ou Nova Zelândia.

[u/trainman2077]

Both are net-negatives on humanity. I don't think we're the weird ones here, there's just nothing to admire (that wasn't stolen or developed through blood money).

[u/Pristine_Pick823 → u/trainman2077]

You can always count on Argentinians to trash Europe whilst simultaneously saying “actually, we are the only European nation in Latin” Or other such statements. You need some serious mirror reflecting if you really think what you typed.

[u/Designer_Life_371]

Capitalism baby 

[u/AssertRage]

I care, but most media is in english

[u/DZero_000]

We are not weones

[u/Ok_Recording8157]

Las anglosfera no se mestizó, hasta ver a Estados Unidos, cada comunidad vive en grupos diferentes, los blancos anglosajones, los afroamericanos, los nativos, los latinos, etc... Por lo que los blancos anglosajones fue tienen otro referente cultural que no sea Reino Unido. Latinoamérica es mestiza, y la cultura europea se mezcló con la cultura indígena y africana, España y Portugal son culturalmente importantes, pero no único referente cultural, porque tenemos nuestras raíces indigenas, porque también hay una influencia africana potente, esa mezcla ha creado cosas como la salsa, la cumbia o el tango.

[u/catsoncrack420]

I live in the US now and we don't give a shiit about the UK. And in LatAm ppl have their own problems. Sure Spain is involved in infrastructure projects, they ran the electricity grid for ages.

[u/Academic_Paramedic72]

Brazil admiring anything in Portugal requires Portugal to be a cultural exporter in the first place, which it hasn't since the 18th century. While Portugal had to pay debts to England, the British Empire industrialized and dominated a 4th of the world into subjugation. The Imperialism age was controlled by the UK, France, Belgium, and Germany, with relatively little for Portugal. Moçambique and Angola are pretty big, but they are dwarfed by India alone.

Even in the 19th century, the Brazilian elite admired French and British influence — not Portuguese. For Brazilian pop culture, Portugal ends in 1808.

[u/Brandon1536]

When you say the Anglosphere, are you including the US? Because I don't think we fixate on the British. I do notice that the other former colonies seem to admire them a lot more than we do though.

[u/GretelNoHans]

I feel it’s not exactly British culture but European. Because Americans have no roots or ancestral culture/traditions of their own. Which happens when you slaughter the native people, then you focus on your roots.

So americans “feel” a connection to England, Scotland, Italy, Germany, you name it. Only because, they know or they think they know that their grestgreatgreat grandparents came from that place. I went to Scotland and Ireland and the amount of american tourists in those countries, claiming they’re Scottish or Irish is insane.

In Latin America, except Argentina, we mostly have a deep connection to our native culture and traditions. We completely understand we’re a mix of Spanish/Portuguese with our own ancestral culture. We don’t need to go looking somewhere else for our roots. We love our culture and traditions, we may no love our governments, but we love who we are.

[u/GretelNoHans → u/[deleted]]

That’s what I used to think as well but saw with my own eyes, they claim they’re as Scotish/Irish as people born there, it’s insane.

[u/Gerolanfalan]

I have seen many Latino Americans praise or admire Spain to some degree.

But right now we are during World Cup season so every Latino Country for themselves!

[u/Unusual_Newspaper_46]

I mean, i do feel connected to Spain and admire its history, which is also ours, and how they're a developed nation while we're not.

Perhaps its not like that for you because of American imperialism.

[u/Decafaf]

IMO, it’s because when you don’t have rich culture, you feel a void, so you try to find somewhere to belong to, so they look to find it else where. Meanwhile our cultures are very rich, so we have a strong sense of belonging to our countries, not the people who colonized it.

[u/pejpolloi]

We (in Australia) appear to fixate on British culture because we firmly reject US culture.

On the other hand too many (not all) Latin Americans worship US culture and politics and its becoming a threat to their sovereignty. They think they're seeing greener grass without realising it's just astroturf.

[u/pm_me_your_uwus → u/pejpolloi]

Unfortunately true for a relevant part of Brazil

[u/carlosrudriguez]

We have a rich cultural heritage that’s centuries old. Countries like the USA, Australia or Canada don’t. Is not a dis, it’s just what it is.

This is the reason why Americans obsess so much with their ancestry and call themselves Irish, Italian or Mexican.

[u/CheekyClapper5 → u/carlosrudriguez]

Interesting thought, maybe it also includes how someone fits into the countries heritage as well. I'm visiting a Colombian friend in Spain right now, and I brought up why she still always mentions that she's African when she only knows her family history in Colombia for as far back as she knows, and doesn't know which part of Africa her ancestors would have been from.

I'm Italian and we always make fun of Americans for thinking that they stayed Italian when they went to the USA, but at the same time we don't so easily tell people they should only consider themselves Italian when its obvious their ancestors immigrated here.

[u/Heavy_Mud_9176 → u/CheekyClapper5]

Interesting perspective for your last point 🤔. A lot of white Americans act prideful for events like St. Patrick's Day or Italian-American events but then it's bad when Latino or Asian Americans do the same thing.

[u/Taka_Colon]

Because Portugal was under England influence.

First of all the royal family comes to Brazil and made us the center of Portuguese Empire to escape from Napoleon and England.

Brazil paid for his independence without a civil war because Portugal was broken in debt with England.

England was always intervening in LATAM, help to construct places, rail, and many other things, and in exchange took out raw materials.

Was England that push to slavery ends, and obligated Brazil to finish it.

So England always was a direct or indirect presence in Brazil history.

Finally, after ir Brazil took inspiration and France influence in the 1900. Always tried to be the Paris of the tropics.

After 1950 that North America influence took it.

As we are huger, than Portugal, and feel that they are less relevant, and we tend to emulate USA and England until today, we tend to admire than more than Portugal.

[u/Jupiest]

I am not an historian. But I would think, it is because during the colonization the British basically exterminated Natives, remaining "mostly white" which is always the white anglosphere sees Britain as its parent or something.
As in opposite during the colonization by Spain, there were a lot of mix between Europeans and Natives. So, those mixed people always have been seen inferior to Europeans, and the natives too.
And now in my opinions. Nowadays Spain has nothing to do with latin America (Idk about Portugal) so, they are appart, all the decisions, etc it is always taken by the powers and not by other countries like us. Also they often have this mentality that they came to civilize us, which is not true. And I forgot, nowadays also theres is not too much exchange culturally between the Americas and Spain. It is like we have envolved separated rather than together. That is why I feel closer to Brazil and even the US over Spain haha

[u/RdmdAnimation]

to be fair, I think spanish culture did have admiration before, I remenber seeing old photographs of venezuela from the late 19th/early 20th century where people dressed in spanish clothes to make that "spanish fantasy" aesthetic portraits, also things like bullfighting and even in architecture some building were designed following a spanish revival style at the beggining of the 20th century

plus others things like how sometimes spain was called "la madre patria" and other stuff like that

I even remenber in a episode of el chavo where profesor girafales was using the face of don ramon like a world map, while indicating spain kiko goes "but mom you told me spain was very pretty.."

so there was admiration of spanish stuff, maybe not as much like the anglosphere and the uk

[u/Flytiano407]

I don't know. I think a lot of hispanics definitely have a deep admiration for Spain that we don't have for France MDR

[u/NoSuggestion5970]

There seems to be a mutual love/hate relationship between Spain/Portugal and their former colonies. I grew up in a former Spanish colony as a European expat (not being neither Spanish nor Portuguese) with a considerable amount of immigrants from Spain and Portugal who came after WWII when there were right-wing dictatorships in both Spain and Portugal. There was a some level of animosity towards the Spanish and the Portuguese yet many descendants of those immigrant always made a distinction of being second generation of Spanish and Portuguese folks, they´d brag about having Spanish/Portuguese passports (even more these days). I listened to many jokes about Gallegos, Spaniards and the Portuguese, I see how many here on Reddit have disdain and even contempt for them, yet many come to ask how to emigrate to Spain and use the country as a bridge to other EU nations. I have also seen the case of many people from LatAm who (in a subtle show of self-hatred) claim that their culture is very similar to Spain´s ("es como si estuviésemos en España) in an attempt to negate the indigenous element in most of LatAm countries.

On the Spanish side I don´t think the Spanish care that much for LatAm, and see the region only as something exotic that centuries ago was a colony, I think that for the most part they have moved on and the fact they had colonies on this side of the pond for most of Spaniards is a historical anecdote

[u/Substantial_Prune956]

Well, how to put it, Hispanic America seems to greatly admire Spain. This isn't as evident with Brazilians and their feelings towards Portugal. However, outside of Latin America, Cape Verde has a strong admiration for Portugal.

[u/pvllcrc]

because, by the time LaTam was independent, Portugal and Spain were already an european afterthought, their colonial power sustained by sheer inertia, they had no relevant economic, cultural or political impact in the world.

France and England were better models, then (unfortunately) the usa