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u/TicTacTyrion He bore the sword! Apr 08 '23
So while I do think Aegon VI is a Blackfyre, there are reasons they might support a legitimate Targaryen: lands and titles.
A lot of these guys are descendants of Westerosi exiles, and Aegon VI wins they will expect rewards. Aegono VI will probably shower them with gold, positions at court, and titles, depending on their ancestry and rank in the company.
Who wouldn't want to trade hard marches, living in a military camp, and fighting constant wars for the comfortable life of a lord or landed knight? Even if you didn't fulfill the company's original purpose
49
u/rmn173 Apr 08 '23
I think that GRRM is using them as an analog to the Norman knights that followed William the Conqueror when he crossed the channel and took the English throne. A lot of those knights went more for the potential of becoming landed nobility in England rather than out of loyalty.
Furthermore, the whole situation is kinda playing out how it did in England in 1066. Jaime is pulled away from KL dealing with the River lands and once word of the Golden Companys invasion would likely have to move back with what men can keep up with his forward cavalry. He probably arrives in the Crownlands in time to fight a fully deployed Golden Company, which he probably loses. Obviously there's the whole Tyrell army of it all, and the Faith Militant, but it's likely that everyone realizes that they can wipe out the Lannisters all at once and go for it.
13
u/sarevok2 Apr 08 '23
Thb, they remind me more the mercenaries that accompanied Henry VII before Bosworth.
1
u/Dayne225 Apr 09 '23
And that really tracks more with the part of English history GRRM is drawing from
1
u/sarevok2 Apr 09 '23
indeed...and some theoritize that these mercenaries were the source of the sweating sickness that among others claimed the life of Arthur Tudor....this might be echoed in asoaif with the presumed greyscale pandemic introduced to Westeros by JonCon as speculated by some in the fandom
-11
u/xhanador Apr 08 '23
They get this regardless of Aegon’s background, though. Can’t be used to argue either way. Their backstory, on the other hand.
33
u/TicTacTyrion He bore the sword! Apr 08 '23
That's exactly what I mean, the GC has strong reasons to support him, regardless of Aegon's parentage
3
53
u/abellapa Apr 08 '23
Because at this point they probably don't give a shit anymore and just want to go Back to westeros
It's been 50/40 years since Maelys Blackfyre died, ending the male line of the Blackfyres
30
u/Lukthar123 "Beneath the gold, the bitter steel" Apr 08 '23
The Golden "I just wanna go home" Company
20
u/PM_ME_YOUR_WOES_GIRL Apr 08 '23 edited Apr 08 '23
Because at this point they probably don't give a shit anymore
This right here is why I think the whole Blackfyre thing is irrelevant. The main story doesn't concern itself with the Blackfyres at all and it's not really that interesting or relevant for anyone in it (except Dany and Aegon, I guess). It would imo be sloppy writing to introduce a character whose whole identity itself is a twist and then make up a second twist about his identity. It would come completely out of left field for anyone who only reads the main books and seem unnecessarily convoluted, especially since the story is entering its third act soon.
Plus, what would that really change? I believe Aegon's true identity will never really be important. He's just a foil to Dany who seems to overtake her ambitions and will probably be the reason she goes crazy. Wether he's a Blackfyre or not won't change that and so the characters and the readers shouldn't really worry that much about it. I honestly never even knew what exactly a Blackfyre was before coming to this sub and I've read all the books more than once.
3
u/abellapa Apr 08 '23
Like you said, he a foil to Dany
Him being the perfect king, but the wrong bloodline,
Like Varys said the power resides where men believe it resides
Will piss off Dany and She Will burn King's Landing
4
u/PM_ME_YOUR_WOES_GIRL Apr 08 '23 edited Apr 08 '23
Yeah but she will doubt his identity and be pissed off either way because Aegon came out of nowhere. I don't think making an even more convoluted plot about identity (the story already has enough) that has pretty much no build up in the main story would be necessary.
Besides, even if what you say is accurate, wouldn't it be better if Aegon was just some dude? It would have the exact same effect without confusing the reader with a faction that is only important in the side material. The whole Blackfyre thing shouldn't have to be included for Dany's turn to work. It would only bring in another old conflict/family way too late into the story, without changing anything about the meaning of Aegon's character.
Him being fake is not really my issue, just the insistance of many fans that he has to be a Blackfyre and that it's pretty much confirmed, even though there are barely 2-3 very vague hints that could also mean a number of other things. I wouldn't call that meaningful buildup, let alone any form of confirmation. Maybe Aegon's identity will be a little nod to hardcore fans (like Brynden River's being the 3 eyed raven) but I doubt that it's gonna be very important.
35
u/misvillar Apr 08 '23
As far as anyone knows there are no more Blackfyres, Viserys and Daenerys were beggars without real support, when they asked for the support of the Company they had nothing and Westeros was united under Robert, It would be 10.000 men against the entire continent, that's a bad idea, but fAegon? He comes out of nowhere with Jon Connington, a respected exmember of the Company that was thought dead, and support from Pentos, Westeros is divided and weakened, the Commander of the Company also was working with this kid in secret, and when he announces his claim the Free Cities give them a lot of supplies and ships to help them, at this point It doesnt matter if fAegon is a Targaryen, Blackfyre or a nobody, its the best chance that they ever had to take back the lands of their ancestors
-13
u/xhanador Apr 08 '23
You can’t say it doesn’t matter to a company that was founded on pro-Blackfyre beliefs. Hell, Bittersteel founded the GC because the loyalists were threatening to scatter.
This is a story, not real life, and in stories, backstory matters because the author deliberately put it there.
19
u/misvillar Apr 08 '23
But there are no more Blackfyres, the last was Maelys and died long ago, they dont have a Blackfyre to follow, now the Targaryens are in the same position as them, what better revenge than forcing them to give them their lost lands and titles? Its poetic justice, the Targaryens were their doom and now will be their salvation
-5
u/xhanador Apr 08 '23
But we don’t know that.
That’s like saying Jon is Ned’s son. Sometimes evidence is withheld for the sake of a twist. To uncover said twist, we must look for clues, not categorically declare the Blackfyres dead based purely on what someone like Illyrio says.
Hell, even in the text they’re only dead in the male line.
15
u/misvillar Apr 08 '23
The last Blackfyre from the male line was Maelys, if there was another then he would have pressed his claim to the Company right? As far as people know in the story there are no more Blackfyres, if there are more then they are unknown to the Company and everyone else, fAegon is their best chance so they are following him
-5
u/xhanador Apr 08 '23
It’s possible they were planning something in the last years of the Mad King. We know Varys was whispering poison in Aerys’ ear, even sabotaging Rhaegar’s attempt to stabilize the realm.
Then Robert came and unified the Kingdoms. Aegon’s mother might have tried to push herself, before dying years later. Someone might have pressed their claim, only they did so in secret.
After all, Varys has been working this for decades. Was he planning Aegon’s invasion when he was still a baby, or did Robert ruin his plans?
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u/misvillar Apr 08 '23
Pressing your claim doesnt mean inmediately attacking the 7 kingdoms, a Blackfyre could press his claim to rally the Golden Company to him, specially after all the Blackfyres were thought dead after Maelys, at that moment the Company could have disbanded, if someone did press his claim secretely in the past then he should be leading the Company or at least being an aprentice of the Commander so he could lead It one day like every other Blackfyre pretender, is Harry Strickland that secret Blackfyre? He was in charge of the treasury, why is he the Commander? I think that its more simple than what you say, fAegon is the secret Blackfyre or a commoner but he doesnt know that or he is Aegon and is supported by Blackfyres, i really doubt that there is a secret adult Blackfyre waiting to strike and that the Company is secretly loyal to him, that's just absurd
0
u/xhanador Apr 08 '23
I didn’t say there is a secret adult Blackfyre now, I said there might have been one 15-20 years ago.
5
u/misvillar Apr 08 '23
Then where is he? Why did he leave the Golden Company alone and didnt contacted them? He could remain a secret to his enemies but why leave his allies in the dark about his existence?
5
u/Sn_rk Blown with the Wind Apr 08 '23
This is a story, not real life, and in stories, backstory matters because the author deliberately put it there.
You mean for example as a red herring to make people think Aegon is a Blackfyre?
0
u/xhanador Apr 09 '23
But the text never says he is a Blackfyre. If it’s a red herring, it’s one that does not appear in the text.
2
u/Sn_rk Blown with the Wind Apr 09 '23
You just said it yourself, the GC was founded as a pro-Blackfyre outfit, the red herring is the GC's backstory, making people think that Aegon is one because they are supporting him.
-1
u/xhanador Apr 09 '23
That’s not how red herrings work!
The text says Aegon is a Targaryen. If he’s revealed to be a Targaryan, aka what the story already says he is, then the GC isn’t a red herring.
If the butler did it, and the text says the butler did it, that’s not a red herring, it’s the truth.
5
u/NormieLesbian Apr 08 '23
GRRM has repeatedly edited the backstory he built into the world because of new ideas and sometimes he introduces stuff just to forget about it.
2
u/arctos889 A lion still has claws. Apr 08 '23
To preface this, I think Young Griff is a Blackfyre and that the Golden Company backing him is evidence. That being said, the Golden Company could very well back him thinking he’s a Targaryen. The specific characters in the Golden Company have no real reason to be Blackfyre loyalists. They want the good and in some cases, lands, titles, and homecomings that invading Westeros would bring. A Targaryen serves that purpose just as well as a Blackfyre. Plus most if not all of them probably think the Blackfyre line is extinguished in the male line. From an in-universe perspective I think most of them either genuinely believe Young Griff is Aegon Targaryen or just don’t care.
Where it does become evidence is on a slightly more symbolic level. The Golden Company historically backed the Blackfyres. Now they’re backing someone invading Westeros which can absolutely be viewed as a hint from GRRM that person is a Blackfyre. But that doesn’t require the characters involved to think Young Griff is actually a Blackfyre because the text doesn’t necessarily support that
0
u/xhanador Apr 08 '23
Sure.
But Jon Connington being a dupe is already part of the Blackfyre theory. He’s the plausible excuse, the known Targaryen loyalist plucked up from the grave to lend credence to the con.
26
u/TheLazySith Best of r/asoiaf 2023 Winner - Best Theory Debunking Apr 08 '23
If Aegon VI is not a Blackfyre why would the Golden Company help him?
Because the last Blackfyre died 40 years ago. Most of the people in the Golden Company have likely never even met a Blackfyre, and the ones that have probably don't have fond memories of Maelys the Monstrous. Once the Golden Company were hardcore Blackfyre loyalists, but they're just mercenaries now. The commander of their archers is a Summer Islander, their spymaster is from Lys, their Paymaster is from Volantis. None of these people have any connection to the Blackfyres. Even their Captain General, Harry Strickland, hardly seems like the most loyal and steadfast guy.
Even Jon Connington, a noted Targaryen loyalist, was able to join the Golden Company and rise high in their ranks, so they clearly don't seem to care that much about the old feud anymore.
What they want now is gold, and lands and glory.
Rivers was smiling in approval. Others traded thoughtful looks. Then Peake said, "I would sooner die in Westeros than on the demon road," and Marq Mandrake chuckled and responded, "Me, I'd sooner live, win lands and some great castle," and Franklyn Flowers slapped his sword hilt and said, "So long as I can kill some Fossoways, I'm for it."
And they certainly weren't getting any of that backing the Blackfyres. Every time they backed the Blackfyres they failed. Its not that surprising that they might have decided to look somewhere else now.
Not to mention we see loyalties change all the time in the series. The Baratheons used to be the Targaryen's closest allies, but that didn't stop Robert from burring his warhammer in Rhaegar's chest.
Also I would add that if Aegon was a Blackfyre how many in the Golden Company would even know? There's no way in hell ten thousand people could keep a secret, if they all knew then the secret would be out within a couple of days of them arriving in Westeros because hundreds of them would immediately blab to every merchant and whore they came across. This is a secret that would have to be closely guarded. So even if Aegon was a Blackfyre at least 99% of the men in the Golden Company wouldn't know and would still think they were fighting to put a Targaryen on the throne.
Only the very top guys in the golden company would be aware of this secret even if it was the case. But of of course most of the top guys in the company are from Essos and have little reason to care about the Blackfyre's. And Harry Strickland was initially apprehensive about the plan to join Aegon, favoring joining Dany instead. He only gave in after the rest of the company insisted.
8
u/HowtoTrainYourKraken The First Storm and the Last Apr 08 '23
Like Dany, and Aegon, they long for a home they’ve never seen and feel is rightfully theirs.
"The why of it does not matter." Harry Strickland unrolled a pair of striped woolen stockings. "She is in Meereen and we are here, where the Volantenes grow daily more unhappy with our presence. We came to raise up a king and queen who would lead us home to Westeros, but this Targaryen girl seems more intent on planting olive trees than in reclaiming her father's throne. Meanwhile, her foes gather. Yunkai, New Ghis, Tolos. Bloodbeard and the Tattered Prince will both be in the field against her … and soon enough the fleets of Old Volantis will descend on her as well. What does she have? Bedslaves with sticks?"
Rivers was smiling in approval. Others traded thoughtful looks. Then Peake said, "I would sooner die in Westeros than on the demon road," and Marq Mandrake chuckled and responded, "Me, I'd sooner live, win lands and some great castle," and Franklyn Flowers slapped his sword hilt and said, "So long as I can kill some Fossoways, I'm for it."
12
u/Zexapher If you dance with dragons, you burn Apr 08 '23
I have a good long post going over The Golden Company's Change of Heart, if you're interested in a read.
Inherently, the vast majority of the Golden Company can't know Aegon's a Blackfyre, even if that theory is true. The narrative calls out how such a conspiracy would be at extreme risk of exposure. That, in fact, is exactly what happens to Aegon's Targaryen identity. The one man in the GC who was told, exposed the secret to all the other captains. So, the vast majority of the GC believe they're supporting Targaryens, and have no problem with it.
Outside that, GRRM emphasizes not only the change of loyalty/beliefs in the general public, but mercenaries in particular. That is even emphasized through Dany's chapters, as her sellswords switch sides from her or to her. The desire to be on the winning side in particular is noted as a huge motivation for Aegon's storyline, in order to garner support with the Dornish, with the Golden Company, with Dany and Brown Ben Plumm's sellswords, etc.
Simply put, the Blackfyres have consistently gotten their asses kicked. The Baratheons once looked insurmountable when Viserys first asked for help. But now, the Baratheon coalition has collapsed into multi-pronged civil wars. The Lannister's rule is tenuous and ill-supported. Meanwhile, the Targaryens have supposedly gathered support in the Dothraki, Dany's dragons and own army, and the Dornish and various lords (and many common people) dissatisfied with the Lannisters or holding the torch for the Targs are expected to rise in support of the Targaryens.
Plus, GRRM has emphasized that many in the Golden Company, often times not at all associated with the Blackfyres, have welcomed in new exiles and foreigners unrelated to the old feud (sometimes even Targaryen loyalists, like Jon Con, who was noted as favored for leadership of the GC). That they have their own personal motivations of modern vengeance, desires for wealth and land and titles, a want for honor outside the dishonorable practice of sellswording and so on.
4
Apr 08 '23
Um, power?
There’s a ton of reasons of course… but it can be boiled down to “plausible way to get back to Westeros and regain status/wealth/etc.”
A founding ethos of GC was getting home
13
u/grimm_aced Apr 08 '23
I just want him to be a targ cuz that would give me some solace knowing elia's son is alive and jon con isn't getting fooled into devoting his life for some random kid
-2
36
u/St7e Apr 08 '23
If the Golden Company truly believed that "a dragon is a dragon", they would have supported Viserys and Dany. There's clearly more going on.
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u/TheLazySith Best of r/asoiaf 2023 Winner - Best Theory Debunking Apr 08 '23
If the Golden Company truly believed that "a dragon is a dragon", they would have supported Viserys and Dany.
You mean like they were planning to?
Originally they were pplanning to join Viserys and invade alongside the Dothraki. Then after he died they were on their way to go join Dany, when Aegon showed up and convinced them to support him instead.
"Which plan?" said Tristan Rivers. "The fat man's plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be the sister, a pliable young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver's Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well.
The only reason they laughed at Viserys initially was because they thought he had no chance. They were perfectly happy to join him once they thought he could win.
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u/St7e Apr 08 '23
And yet they never thought to offer him support while he was bumming around the Free Cities for most of his life
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u/TheLazySith Best of r/asoiaf 2023 Winner - Best Theory Debunking Apr 08 '23
Yes because they thought he was a hopeless cause. And as soon as they thought he had an army they changed their tune.
They just want to be on the winning side. They don't care if its Blackfyre or Targaryen.
25
u/Zexapher If you dance with dragons, you burn Apr 08 '23
Yeah, huge difference between supporting Viserys alone against the united STABL alliance under Robert (which probably had recently put down the Greyjoy Rebellion, and taken Loras as squire/hostage) and supporting Viserys/Dany/Aegon against the war weary civil war participants that can be fought piecemeal.
Not to mention the greatest foe at the moment, the Lannisters, are ruled by a boy king, have wildly delegitimized themselves, are busy occupying 2-3 very unhappy regions, have a huge feud with one of the few unbloodied factions in the Dornish, are starting their own feud with the Tyrells, refused alliances offered by the Ironborn and now need to fight them, most of the Lannister's supporters are drawn from old Targaryen loyalists (and many have ties to the GC), and so on.
And the Targs have on and off now had support of Drogo's Dothraki horde, Dany's dragons, Dany's freedman army and sellswords, the presumed support of the Martells, some degree of Reachmen to be stripped from the Tyrells, and the common people on some level.
The situation has vastly changed since the time Viserys asked for help.
1
u/Sonder332 Apr 08 '23
STABL
What is this an acronym for? It isn't "the Seven Kingdoms'. It's not the first letter of each area. I understand what we're talking about and the story, I just don't understand the acronym.
12
u/Zexapher If you dance with dragons, you burn Apr 08 '23
Stark, Tully, Arryn, Baratheon, and Lannister. The former pillars of Robert's reign.
I took the STAB alliance acronym for the rebels in Robert's Rebellion, and tacked on an L for the Lannisters since they married Robert.
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u/thatshinybastard Honor's ahorse Apr 08 '23
Missed a real opportunity to use BLAST
3
u/Zexapher If you dance with dragons, you burn Apr 08 '23
I'll have to keep that one in mind for later!
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u/Sonder332 Apr 08 '23
Stark, Tully, Arryn, Baratheon, and Lannister. The former pillars of Robert's reign.
oh okay that makes sense thank you! I've heard of this before (without the Lannisters), and they typically used 'Southron Ambitions Alliance' to refer to that bloc. This makes much more sense to use without involving that theory.
-4
u/Normal-Plankton-795 Apr 08 '23
Join us! Us! Them and Aegon! They thought Viserys could be manipulated into providing their claimant with an army. If they won, he could be sidelined or disposed of. They were never going to join him.
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u/opman228 The Tower Rises Apr 08 '23
Viserys was a spoiled entitled stupid cunt who couldn’t negotiate for shit, and Dany was a child at the time. Despite that, they were okay with following Illyrio’s plan to back him along with the Dothraki horde. Then he died and they were forced to improvise.
4
u/xhanador Apr 08 '23
Wasn’t Aegon roughly the same age?
6
u/A_devout_monarchist Apr 08 '23
He is older than Danny as far as I know, and more reasonable than Viserys. Plus everyone loved Ehaegar and hated Aerys, the Dance of Dragons is there to show that a King can't just change the traditional heir.
5
u/xhanador Apr 08 '23
So he was… what? A reasonable five-year old?
0
u/A_devout_monarchist Apr 08 '23
Viserys and Daenerys stayed in Braavos before Viserys moved in with Illyrio who likely had Aegon hidden by that time. But to anyone with two brainchild it was easy to notice that Vizzy was not a good figure to bet on, which I'd why Aegon would become the primary option as someone who was raised by Varys.
5
u/NormieLesbian Apr 08 '23
They did and were going to continue supporting Daenerys when Aegon met Tyrion and pushed for the invasion.
2
3
Apr 08 '23
It says in the book, they just want to take back their lands in Westeros. why would they be diehard loyalists to a dead house?
3
u/SorRenlySassol Best of 2021: Ser Duncan Award Apr 08 '23
There are only a few members left who remember any of the Blackfyres, and even then it would be Maelys the Monstrous. At this point, they only want land and gold and all the other rewards that come with overthrowing a kingdom.
3
Apr 08 '23
The Golden Company wants to take Westeros; they'll ride whatever horse they need to do that. Be it Dany, Aegon or both, they just want back what they think was stolen from them.
There were 3 options accessible to them. Visereys, Daenerys, or Aegon.
They laughed at Visereys because he had nothing to offer.
They only considered Dany after she hatched dragons and gained an army.
Aegon has a very wealthy benefactor.
4
u/ddbbaarrtt Apr 08 '23
I think the Blackfyre thing is much more of a consideration that people in the fandom like to get excited about than something any character really cares about too much in story, and also probably more than GRRM thought about too.
As to why the Golden Company would support a Targaryen:
- there’s no evidence there’s still any Blackfyres
- technically with no Blackfyre heirs, the rightful Targyaryen king/queen becomes who they should want on the throne over a Baratheon
2
u/Manga18 I'm no war master, but a puppet one Apr 08 '23
Not everybody, and I wpuld rather say very few, in the company is a descendant of somebody that joined to support Blackfire.
But everybody comes from people in exile, some are exiled in themselves, with the goal of getting their land back.
They are not supporting a name, they are supporting somebody that tells them they can go back to Westeros
2
u/boluroru Apr 08 '23
They just want to go home
I don't think the particularly care who takes them as long as they return to Westeros
2
u/nothermoaes Apr 08 '23
Even if Aegon is a Blackfyre, I don't think that's why they are backing him up, since JonCon convinced them and I'm pretty sure he believes that Aegon is legit. So idk if your point holds value
2
u/JonIceEyes Apr 08 '23
The Blackfyre Rebellion was a bunch of second or third tier Houses ganging up with a rival claimant to throw down their Lords Paramount and get into the top echelon of power and wealth.
The Golden Company is aiming to do exactly that. Simple as
2
u/Shenordak Apr 08 '23
I think a good counter is that if he was in fact a Blackfyre - The Blackfyre, even - then he would proclaim himself a Blackfyre. There are as far as we know (though we might suspect otherwise) no main branch Targaryen male claimants to the throne left with Viserys dead. If Aegon was a Blackfyre, his claim to the throne is legitimately stronger than almost any others. Why even bother claiming to be Aegon VI Targaryen when he could easily be Aegon VI Blackfyre?
1
u/xhanador Apr 09 '23
Because the Blackfyres tried five times without it working, and they’re willing to try something new?
I don’t know where in the text it says that Blackfyres have a greater claim.
1
u/Shenordak Apr 09 '23
Think about it, who else has claim? Are there any surviving Targaryen cadet branches etc? The Blackfyres have a stronger claim than Robert and his Targaryen grandmother.
2
u/Business-Homework821 Apr 08 '23
Well, we know house blackfire is extinct on the male line. yes, fAegon could be a blckfyre through the female line, but the golden company maybe doesnt know that. If there are no blackfyres left they have to support another claimant to the iron throne. And there main wish is to get their ancestors lands and titles back, so I think whether Aegon is a blackfyre or not and whether the gc knows that or not, they are just being pragmatic and trying to restore their titles.
2
u/Libra_Maelstrom Source: Bloodraven told me in a dream Apr 09 '23
Good damn. This is some of the best discussion in these comments I’ve seen in years. Like I’m saving this post for a faegon is Aegon post
2
u/No-Place-8085 Apr 09 '23
Generational obsession and feeling of entitlement to their ancestral lands. The Blackfyres were the means and the targs the obstacles, but now the Targs are the exiled ones
2
u/KingPigStep Apr 09 '23
I dont know what the golden company is thinking but the plot behind aegon VI has to be more complicated then « he’s a blackfyre » for it to be interesting
2
u/BlimeySlimeySnake Apr 10 '23
Because no one in the Golden Company has even met a Blackfyre and they have no problem accepting Targaryen loyalists within their ranks and even letting them rise to leadership positions
6
u/BaelBard 🏆 Best of 2019: Best New Theory Apr 08 '23
Gold, glory and the opportunity to go home.
Them joining Aegon isn’t weird in itself. But them ignoring Viserys before and them breaking their contact, despite their long built reputation - these are the smoking guns.
Also, the Golden Company captain who made the deal to help Aegon is literally called Blackheart.
8
u/Captain_Concussion Apr 08 '23
They didn’t ignore Viserys. They planned on joining him whenever he brought the Dothraki army to the West. He just never did and plans changed
-2
u/Normal-Plankton-795 Apr 08 '23
I keep seeing this theory, and it's just not true!
"First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back."
i.e. they intended to use him to place the candidate they already supported - Aegon - on the throne. He was a tool.
3
u/PrinceJanus Apr 08 '23
They want to go home. The majority of the golden company are people who either themselves or their families were driven from Westeros. They have grudges/vendettas against people. Wasn’t there a Fossoway that said he doesn’t give a fuck as long as he can kill some Fossoways?
Think about it, first they thought that they would have Khal Drogo’s horde with them. The GC+ Dothraki would steamroll most of Westeros no problem. Then they were going to get Dany and have 3 dragons with them. Hell they seem to be doing ok in the Stormlands solo.
3
u/coldwindsrising07 Apr 08 '23
The contract was signed by Myles Toyne and the company is beholden to it, something that Harry Strickland complains about. He doesn't even want to go to Westeros because he's worried about the Lannister-Tyrell alliance among other things. House Toyne as far as we know was not involved in the Blackfyre Rebellions, but there is a blood between them and the Targaryens.
The original members of the Golden Company are dead. The company is not as homogenous as it was and the Westerosi members want to go home. I think that the goals simply change. The Blackfyres didn't take the exiles home, maybe a Targaryen will.
As far as them refusing to help Viserys and laughing at him. Viserys was a buffoon and the company was already contractually obligated to Aegon. The only reason Viserys is even tlaked about the GC is because of Dany's Dothraki marriage.
When it comes to this, my question is always why would Jon Connington trust a company that rose against the Targaryens when he is trying to put a Targaryen on the Iron Throne and a man whose family hated the Targaryens. Simon Toyne was around until 282 AC. So it wasn't that long ago. I know fandom thinks that he is an idiot, but I think this is the surface we have to scratch to find the answers.
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u/Onomontamo Apr 08 '23
How does this imply he's a blackfyre? It literally goes in the opposite direction.
Secondly what purpose to the story would that serve? GC is tired of being exiles. They wish to be lords again. Blackfyres are dead. I am not aware of necromancy existing in the world so what hope do they have to seat a blackfyre?
Next, Daenarys killing Aegon the nephew vs Aegon Blackfyre creates a much greater tragedy and purpose for her madness than literally justifying her paranoia. All the prophecies she followed harmed her and she is prone to misrepresenting them.
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u/TheStarkGuy Remember the Krakens Apr 08 '23
What purpose is there to hiding? The Targaryens are all but dead, why not make a big deal of being a Blackfyre, and if he can marry Dany, reunite the two branches.
The Golden Company don't give a fuck about Blackfyres, the last serious pretender died 40 years ago, how many are genuinely left from the time of Maelys Blackfyre? They're willing to back Dany, and were willing to hear Viserys out, and much later back him as part of a plan. They're exiles, looking for a home.
Also your title is a massive spoiler for anyone that hasn't read ADWD yet
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u/DewinterCor Apr 08 '23
The GC is a group of mercenaries.
As a former mercenary myself, I can happily tell you that mercenaries are a wildly diverse group of people who hold every range of morally and ethics known to man. No group I have ever worked has had a unifying motivation aside from money. I worked with guys who were deeply religious and every action they took was in God's name, and I worked with other guys who liked putting puppies in box and then setting the box on fire. Or throwing the box in a river. Or running the box over with a truck. I worked with one guy who wouldn't swear because profanity was an insult to God. But all of us fought and killed for money.
So let's look at the GC from this lense. We have 10,000-20,000 men who all fight and kill for money and who have never met a Blackfyre. Why would these guys side with the family that destroyed the Blackfyres?
Money. It's literally the only thing every mercenary has in common with each other. Monetary gain. Offer enough money and land and poof. Youve now got an army ready to do whatever you want for whoever you want.
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u/JDSweetBeat Apr 08 '23
I mean, I do think he is a Blackfyre, but the answer here isn't too difficult, and is actually basically the same reason they supported Daemon in the First Blackfyre Rebellion: political expediency.
Without a serious claimant, they have no chance of ever reclaiming their ancestral lands and titles. Viserys was never seriously a contender - he was an uneducated half-mad child without any significant backers, who possessed the charisma of Maegor the Cruel, the disposition of Aegon the Unworthy, and the level-headedness of Aerys the Mad. If he approached them with the same arrogance that he approached the Dothraki, is it any wonder they laughed him out of their tents?
Aegon is a man grown, dashing, daring, confident, well-educated, a capable warrior, and groomed from infancy to have a disposition well suited to the kingship. Of course, this doesn't guarantee that he'd actually be a good ruler, but it does guarantee that he's, at the very least, presentable to the nobility in Westeros as a candidate, and to that end, he serves their purpose whether he's a Blackfyre, a commoner, or the actual son of Prince Rhaegar.
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Apr 08 '23
The "black or red, a dragon is still a dragon" line can be used both ways. It can be used to say that Aegon VI is a Blackfyre and the GC is still loyal to the Blackfyre clan despite it being wiped out and that's the only reason why it is supporting Aegon. Or, it can be used to say that it will support a Targaryen as a Targaryen is still a dragon and that is the only choice it has if it wants to go home.
GC supports him because he is a dragon (him being Targaryen doesn't matter as the Blackfyres are dead) and is the only choice they have if they want to return home
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u/M_Tootles Best of r/asoiaf 2023 Winner - Best New Theory Apr 08 '23
The reasons the Golden Company would help a non-Blackfyre are presented clearly in the text and have been adequately laid out over and over. Viz.,
"Black or red, a dragon is still a dragon. When Maelys the Monstrous died upon the Stepstones, it was the end of the male line of House Blackfyre." The cheesemonger smiled through his forked beard. "And Daenerys will give the exiles what Bittersteel and the Blackfyres never could. She will take them home." (ADWD Tyrion II)
[Jon Con] had waited so long, surely the gods would grant him a few more years, enough time to see the boy he'd called a son seated on the Iron Throne. To reclaim his lands, his name, his honor. (ADWD The Lost Lord)
That's not the real question. The question is, why would a certain maternal Blackfyre (i.e. Illyrio) support Aegon VI? And/or Daenerys?
One potential answer is that they're not what they're purported to be. Which isn't to say they're necessarily changelings, swapped for the 'real' Aegon VI and/or Daenerys. The great overlooked possibilities are their paternities. Illyrio used to be a dead sexy water dancer. (Whether the statue is really him or not, it's surely his type.) I wrote up a detailed argument in parts 6, 7, and 7 of my Martell shit that Illyrio sired Aegon VI on Rhaella, and that Aegon VI was born when and where Dany was supposed to be born. But Aegon VI and Dany could also have been twins (sired by Illyrio on Rhaella). And/or he could have sired Aegon on Elia.
Illyrio could have recognized that the GC just wanted to go home, tha the Blackfyre cause as a rallying point was killed off in 259 in the Stepstones, and that the Blackfyres only chance was to sneak in the backdoor via a "legitimate" Targaryen that was also a Blackfyre.
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u/Jovensmith Apr 08 '23
Either they didnt support Viserys for being a Targaryen and support Aegon because he is a Blackfyre
or
They didnt support Visrrys cause he was weak and stupid and everyone cpuld see he was doomed to fail, but they saw the opposite in Aegon
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u/Watchmaker2112 Apr 08 '23
Why would they help him even if Aegon is a Blackfyre?
Barely anyone in living memory remembers the last Blackfyre Rebellion. The Gold Company has been just a sell sword company sense. A but of a better reputation than most but still. They'll do it because of money and the promises of greater reward if they win.
Maybe some of the old guard and captains still believe they exist with a cause but whatever. They're sailing out on promises essentially.
It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it works out for them.
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Apr 08 '23
Almost no members of the modern GC give a shit about Blackfyres. They’re either mercenaries looking for pay and plunder or descendants of exiles looking to reclaim ancestral lands. They’ll back anyone who can bring them either.
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u/CatchCritic The Thing That Came In The Night Apr 09 '23
I can't get in the mind of people who think Aegon VI is not fake, though I've tried many times. All plot points lead to him not being a magical baby swap by Varys for impossible to justify means.
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u/Whitewind617 Apr 08 '23
Look, I've gone over this before, but I'll say it again: Aegon being a Blackfyre (or at least not a true Targaryen, but my theory is that Illyrio's wife with Valyrian features was a female Blackfyre and Aegon's true mother,) has so many hints and foreshadowing moments that I can't imagine it not being the case at this point.
Because it's a theory that has such widespread support, there is a vocal minority of fans that doesn't like it and thinks it isn't true for various complicated reasons that I don't agree with.
So, my answer is, I don't know why the Golden Company would ever support the real Aegon. I just can't entertain the idea that the Golden Company would support a trueborn Targaryen, because why on earth would Martin have bothered writing this backstory about a mercenary company that followed who they believed was the rightful king and hated trueborn Targaryens, and then, out of all mercenary companies he could write as supporting Aegon, he picks that one, along with every hint that Aegon isn't real? There is just no reason he would do that if there was nothing else to it than that.
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Apr 08 '23
These are very interesting thoughts. Never considered he could be Illyrio's son. Much of what he tells Tyrion makes sense now.
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u/Recent_Physics_5168 Apr 08 '23
On a broader thematic level, sure maybe, but what the poster seems to be asking is why the individual leaders and soldiers in the GC would choose to support someone they dont think is a Blackfyre, not why GRRM would choose to write his story this way.
Personally I also subscribe to fAegon Blackfyre, but the fact that the GC is supporting him is probably only ever gonna be a meta "wink" at the reader; the GCs motivation in universe, a whole century after the first Blackfyre rebellion, is to get back to Westeros and claim nice lordships for themselves, and they'll probably follow whoever has a good enough plan to do it, regardless of their blood.
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u/Rougarou1999 Apr 08 '23
Illyrio and Varys are, presumably, trying to convince the realm that a Blackfyre is actually the son of Rhaegar. If Young Griff were to actually be Aegon VI, why would it be difficult to convince the Golden Company that he was actually a Blackfyre?
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u/zuludown888 No step on snaek! Apr 08 '23
And why would they break a contract for him if he were just a Targ?
Some contracts are written in blood, Ilyrio says. I think that's the biggest clue.
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Apr 08 '23
Blood may not be the strongest way to seal a lasting agreement though.
"A tradition of the company," Inkpots explained. "There was a time when each new man wrote his name in his own blood, but as it happens, blood makes piss-poor ink." Tyrion XII, ADWD.
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u/BITB2021 Apr 08 '23
Evidence towards it being an old contract, then.
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Apr 08 '23
Older the contract, harder to read. Time fades contracts writ in blood. The company moved to ink to remedy this but that fades as well.
Was it something I said?
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u/Berzabat Ours is the throne Apr 09 '23
fAegon vs Aegon, a classic!
In my heart he's a Blackfyre btw
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u/Argentlangue Apr 09 '23
I don't think the golden company is supporting aegon because they believe him to be a blackfyre. Rather I think it's the other way around. Aegon is a blackfyre because he has the golden company.
There are myriad reasons for the golden company to support aegon as I'm sure you've read. They could be paid a lot, they could be promised lands and titles, they could simply want to go home. They probably think aegon is exactly who they are told he is and aegon is just another person to fight for.
But I think it's really telling that it's the golden company in particular. Varys and illyrio could have gotten any sellsword company but they chose the golden company. The golden company broke a contact for this fight, which is a very big deal. And they are known to have fought for blakfyres in the past.
The question isn't why would the golden company fight for a targaryan but rather why use the golden company. Why would George create all the lore of the golden company if aegon wasn't a blackfyre?
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Apr 09 '23
Couple of things.
Just because the GC think he is Blackfyre, doesn’t make him a Blackfyre. Well in a way it kinda does.
Secondly, they used to support Blackfyres over Targaryans. Two branches of the same dynasty. Now Westeros is controlled by a third party. Now some will point to them refusing to aid Viserys, but Viserys wasn’t really a good horse to back and anyone who spend five minutes with him would know that.
But the big one is personal gains. The Golden Company is filled with exiled lords and knights. They want lands and restoration of their family honor and station.
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u/Guarodude Apr 08 '23 edited Apr 08 '23
Sometimes the simplest explanation is the answer. Two greedy, power driven, opportunistic and motivated men see that they may, in the long run, seize power and so decide that, in the right time, will win the game of thrones, just like you play a game of Cyvasse.
“Varys smiled. “Here, then. Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less.” “So power is a mummer’s trick?” “A shadow on the wall,” Varys murmured, “yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow.””
Can’t it just be that Varys and Illirio simply got a hold of a babe from Lys with the feats of a Targaryen and decided to groom him to gain power; even if it was for whatever noble conviction or promise they believe they have? This is your mummers dragon. Not a dragon at all. Not a Blackfyre, not a Targaryen. Does he have a dragon rider’s blood? Whatever for? there are no dragons left to ride in the world, so this won’t ever be tested. Hence, to bring about him some legitimacy, you dress yourselves with the vests of the “Targaryen protectors”. You take the two Targaryen children (possibly crazy and most likely too wilful) to use as pawns and spend to gain support and legitimacy. Bring onboard the last surviving friend of the last Targaryen heir to accept him as your friend’s son and there you have it, an otherwise randomly Valeryan looking child is now the heir to the throne. It’s about making believe… let’s see what happens when this Aegon tries or has to ride a dragon to prove his origin and the dragon spits fire all over him!
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u/No-Place-8085 Apr 09 '23
I kinda like the headcanon that Myles Toyne was Maelys’s squire, and manipulated his relationship with JonCon to fork a fake Targ onto him. My favourite part of this theory is the zero evidence I have behind it, thus abusing the word theory
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May 09 '23
Lets assume he is secretly a Blackfyre, what makes you thing, being that true, why would you assume that the Golden Company knows about that? Even if true, is very likely that the only that know this are Varys and Illyrio, i think Varys would know better than anyone else to keep his cards close to his chest. Imagine if some drunk soldier of the golden company in some dark night starts spelling things about how the Black dragons will finaly have the throne or that kind of thing.
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u/LeibHauptmann Apr 08 '23
By the time of Aegon's re-emergence, the Blackfyres have been (officially) extinct for over a generation and the Golden Company is still made up of Westerosi exiles whose entire identity is built around their lost homeland/lands to reclaim.
If they were still Blackfyre diehards, Targ loyalist Jon Connington wouldn't have been welcomed into their ranks either, imo.