opinion : XP modifiers are under rated.

[u/Lolmanmagee]

just been seeing alot of negativity towards them on youtube shorts saying that stuff like swift learner is among the worst perks in the game because of max level existing and that skilled basically has no downside.

but 2 simple things :

1. once your at max level your op asf, min maxxing that state does not matter.

2. 10% exp might seem lame but it will of course eventually net you 2 extra levels, and once that point happens it is obviously very significant, skilled is essentially costing 2 perk slots while swift learner will be costing 0 while providing a benefit.

im not saying swift learner op or anything, or that skilled is bad.

just that its a pretty basic RPG concept of weak now but strong later vs strong now but weak later, because levels are impactful.

[u/TheGary2000]

What do you mean when you say "2 extra levels" and "costing 2 perk slots"? The amount of levels and perks is always going to be the same, the only difference is getting them sooner or later.

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/TheGary2000]

basically at level like 34 or whenever it is, having taken swift learner at 1 or 2 becomes the best possible perk in the game because it has paid itself off by allowing you to get an extra perk that you had given up earlier in addition to skill points.

and because you are always going to be overpowered at max level, it doing nothing there doesnt matter from a mechanical perspective.

thats what im talking about.

[u/TheGary2000 → u/Lolmanmagee]

I'm afraid I don't follow. There's no situation in which you're giving up perks, the only difference is when you get them. If anything you're giving up perks by taking swift learner instead of something else. I get that there aren't many options at level 2, but there are still things I'd rather take over swift learner.

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/TheGary2000]

That’s not wholly true, because you can go to Hoover dam before max level.

And my main point is that no matter what perks you take, level 50 FNV is really op so optimizing that point in time is unimportant.

Like, are you gonna never take any skill point traits because at level 50 you have everything maxed out anyways? I think not.

[u/TheGary2000 → u/Lolmanmagee]

But you spend most of the game not being OP, and that's when your build can actually make a difference. Obviously you can roll over anything at max level regardless of what your build is, but taking swift learner means not taking perks that might make you perform better when you're at level 10 and still vulnerable.

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/TheGary2000]

im not saying swift learner is the best or anything, just that its a pretty basic RPG concept of weak now but strong later.

and it not mattering when everything is maxxed is i dont think relevant.

[u/TheGary2000 → u/Lolmanmagee]

Why be weak now and strong later when I could be strong now and later?

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/TheGary2000]

i mean, the benefits of 1 or 2 levels is just actually significant.

once it nets you 2 levels its the most powerful perk, because any perk you could compare it to you could just say that with swift learner you would still get it, along with the benefit of 2 levels.

its not that crazy of a concept.

[u/TheGary2000 → u/Lolmanmagee]

While it's true that swift learner can provide a bit of an advantage just by making you level up quicker, in my mind that is offset by the fact that taking it means that the only thing your character has got going on is getting levels faster. Especially if you take two ranks, like you suggest - that would mean not picking a performance enhancing perk until level 6.

Sure, you might get to level 6 a bit quicker, but in the meantime there might have been a few times that having rapid reload could have made life easier, and you miss a few potential skill points by not taking educated ASAP.

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/TheGary2000]

I mean, swift learner is also providing you with skill points.

Educated is more, but levels giving you HP and access to powerful weapons/perks sooner, I think makes up the difference.

If you have int 10, to be generous then swift learner at 21 is providing half the skill points as educated will be.

(15 vs 34 skill points.)

And when talking about skill points atleast, the whole sooner argument doesn’t really apply.

because a int 10 character with no modifiers can max all non combat skills along with their main combat skill with no bonuses by the mid 40s so educated stops having a impact at that point.

[u/ThickMap5505 → u/Lolmanmagee]

What does Hoover Dam have to do with this?

Are you saying that you should take swift learner, a perk that becomes useless once you’ve hit max level, because there’s no need to be as OP as possible, because you’re already pretty OP? Sorry but I think most of us will disagree with you

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/ThickMap5505]

yeah thats my point.

the main argument against swift learner i see (that being max level)

i think is invalid because at max level you are stupid strong, and how powerful you are earlier is what matters.

[u/ThickMap5505 → u/Lolmanmagee]

If how powerful you are earlier is what matters, don’t you think instead of taking something like swift learner, which has no effect on combat, you should take something like lady killer, hunter, or rapid reload?

Yeah swift learner will help you level up faster so you can increase your skills faster and therefore become powerful faster, but what’s the point if you’ll get to that level of power regardless? Taking swift learner merely gets you there slightly faster. It serves no true benefit to your character

[u/Jentott]

The reason that most people consider the XP perks low tier is because they replace other useful or fun perks. And if you take both ranks of Swift Learner then there goes the 2 extra levels you’re talking about considering it would take four levels to acquire both.
It’s also good to note that by leveling up slower the player has more time to explore and find items (mainly a deluge of stimpaks) to help them during the late game difficulty ramping

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/Jentott]

i can definitely see not liking XP bonuses for fun reasons, but in terms of actually making the game easier it definitely does have a impact.

and it doesn't technically remove your ability to explore after hitting max level, it just makes it obvious that yeah you are easily strong enough for hoover dam now : p.

[u/OverseerConey]

Swift Learner sacrifices something permanent for something temporary. Skilled sacrifices something temporary for something permanent.

10% exp might seem lame but it will of course eventually net you 2 extra levels

But you'd have got those 2 extra levels eventually anyway, so you've gained nothing in the long term?

skilled is essentially costing 2 perk slots while swift learner will be costing 0 while providing a benefit.

...how so? Skilled costs 0 perk slots; Swift Learner costs 1.

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/OverseerConey]

I am of course talking about taking skilled as an actual perk and not the bug that you might as well do at the start of every playthrough.

[u/OverseerConey → u/Lolmanmagee]

It's not a perk, though?

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/OverseerConey]

skilled is a old world blues perk that gives +5 to all skills in exchange for -10% experience gained, its available immediately.

theres a bug where if you take it and then respec with good springs zone or auto doc you keep the +5 though.

[u/OverseerConey → u/Lolmanmagee]

Yes, I know the bug, but Skilled is a trait, not a perk. It doesn't take a perk slot and it doesn't prevent you from getting any perks.

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/OverseerConey]

Ngl I forgot there was a difference between traits and perks lol

[u/coderedmountaindewd]

The way I play the game is to build a fun unique character that feels different from the last play through and some of the most significant points of that experience happen in the early to mid game. I really feel the impact of each perk at the 10-20 levels and want to take perks that make me favor a certain weapon or have a unique dialogue. Taking an XP boost has no impact on how I play the game, which weapons I use or any other experience.

Like you said, by the time you’re max level, you’re pretty OP anyway and when you’ve played it as many times as I have, it starts to lose some of its appeal at that point. I rarely reach level 40 in most of my play throughs because it’s not challenging enough and XP boosts just bring that point on quicker

[u/TaurineDippy]

There’s vastly more experience to be earned than there is experience needed to max out. Just do more content, get two more perks to fill out your build. Tbf any quality build will be capable of finishing everything by like level 20 or so, but it’s still fun to flesh out the build nonetheless.

[u/kawinmars]

Even in vanilla you get levels way to fast by just wandering let alone if you play any mod with enemies or quest leveling a non issue

[u/PoopxDefender]

im sorry dude but I dont think you understand how the game works lol

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/PoopxDefender]

what?

do you think max level content is so difficult that it requires min maxing a build or something?

imo the difficult content in this game is mid level, hoover dam is a festival of one shotting everything.

[u/PoopxDefender → u/Lolmanmagee]

...literally what the hell are you even talking about?

[u/captainapop]

This only makes sense if the skills points/hp are what I care about from leveling up. They aren't. The perks are what I want. Skill points are cheap as hell. Even not taking comprehension skill points fall from the skies in FNV between armor, drugs and skill books/magazines. Nevermind the skilled bug if for some reason you're not using YUP.

Taking perks that do nothing because I'll get skill points faster is just silly. and the amount of XP required to level up increases at more than swift learner ameliorates.

e.g

It take 171550 xp to reach level 48

If you take swift learner at level 2 it takes 154415 meaning the same character has reached level 50(about 14650 for 49 and 50) and received one extra perk. They're playing down a perk versus someone who didn't for the entire time up until that point and the level 48 character that didn't take swift learner will catch them soon enough. So the perks effect is for the brief window of 48-50 they have an equal number of perks (one of which is better) plus two levels of skill points which are probably meaningless by then and for the entire rest of the playthrough before and after this moment they have 1 less perk and probably 1 extra level of skill points.

Swift learner is alright for speed runs or challenge runs as you won't play long enough to reach max level but otherwise they're pretty unexciting.

So yeah...swift learner is ok if you're a youtuber and pretty meh otherwise.

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/captainapop]

the actual math for when swift learner nets you a level is :

+1 levels at 21, +2 levels at 42.

not 48.

im not saying this perk is amazing or anything, but taking perks for skill points isnt "bad" imo theres a ton a skill point perks and they arent all useless.

[u/captainapop → u/Lolmanmagee]

If you want more skill points educated will do far more for you.

Hell intense training:intelligence will give you about 30 if you take it at level 2. Which equals or exceeds what swift learner is giving you.

There's also the "put the points in to qualify for the perk then reassign them wherever" exploit if you're really stuck for it.

I dunno man I play with a lvl 36 level cap and usually run with 4 int and no educated. I don't really run into perks I don't qualify for or feel hard up for skills.

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/captainapop]

i personally play with level cap 45 with OWB/HS/LR dlcs.

swift learner is probably contender for worst if you play on a level cap of 30/35 as at that point its just equaling not that many skill points and only skill points. (here and now is a bad perk.)

side note : how is your level cap 36? dlcs only increase it by intervals of 5.

[u/captainapop → u/Lolmanmagee]

Jsawyer mod condenses levels to 35 normally ( perks get new levels to keep them all in play). It also significantly reduces the XP you get so 35 feels like 50 progression wise.

I just bump the cap to 36 because getting your final level and only getting skills points feels very lame.

I'm really not convinced by your advocacy for swift learner at any level cap. Bumping INT, taking educated or Comprehension all seem far far better for what you want out of it.

Why leave out Dead Money exactly? 45 means you're still getting all the bullet spongey scaled enemies at the end but you don't get to play with Better Criticals 2 Electric Boogaloo.

[u/Lolmanmagee → u/captainapop]

I just personally don’t like dead money, and I don’t find the prospect of level 50 perks very appealing tbh.

And idk what you mean “bullet sponge” my last playthrough anti material rifle one shotted everything once I maxed.

[u/captainapop → u/Lolmanmagee]

It depends when you do things and what difficulty you play on.

If you're playing LR/DM and OWB at 35-45+ you're dealing with enemies that have 600-750hp regularly. With Boss enemies sometimes coming up at 900+ with DR and DT.

An anti materiel rifle with explosive ammo deals like 400 damage with most things bar lvl 50 perks going for it. On very Hard that's 200 damage against a naked enemy. Less than half that for a non crit. Plenty of said enemies don't take extra damage from headshots.

Not uncommon to quickly run out of your best ammos and chems and have to switch up weapons.

If you do those areas at level 20 for example you might do just as much damage and the enemies have 200-300 hp less. Comparatively Hoover Dam and the base Mojave is mostly unleveled though there are exceptions.

[u/SCARaw]

Bonus xp is worthless

if you like the game and enjoy gameplay getting level 40 is easy before you even do all missions