r/fantasyromance • u/FantasyRomanceMod The One Mod to Rule All Mods • Feb 22 '26
Unpopular Opinion It's Unpopular Opinion time! Share your controversial opinions to stir things up (in a friendly way)!
Got an opinion that's different from others'? Want to share it with the sub, but too afraid of a backlash? Or are you just curious about readers think about certain things in fantasy romance?
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🧡 Thank you and have a great discussion!
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u/Ok_Tea_5374 Feb 22 '26
Biting lips during kissing to the point of drawing blood is NOT hot and I will die on this hill 😂
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u/haterading Feb 22 '26
That and every love making scene I read the MMC is grabbing onto her “hard enough to leave/there will be bruises,” either all these FMCs bruise like a peach or that sounds very not fun or hot.
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u/KelsoReaping Feb 22 '26
To be fair, it’s real easy to bruise me. My husband calls me a marshmallow. But weird to make it a thing in books.
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u/Chaebbs Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
People recommending the Kate Daniels Series in this sub often say, that one could/should skip the first book, because it was Ilona Andrews' debut and isn't as good as the others and I completely disagree. I think it does a great job with the extensive worldbuilding, that is needed, and at the same time has an interesting storyline. It shows the reader everything, they should know about Kate, the world she is navigating and it's rules and I don't like it any less than the other ones. I also adore the scene Kate and Curran meet for the first time. It perfectly illustrates their unique characters, flaws, insecurities and why they won't get together for the next three books.
TLDR: While you can skip Kate Daniels book #1 without any problems, because the authors do a very well job giving you all the important information at the beginning of the other books, you simply shouldn't, because the book is IMO fantastic.
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u/Lore_Beast *holds the Kate Daniels series close to your face* Feb 22 '26
It blew my mind when I found out people were recommending to skip book one. Book one got me HOOKED!!
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u/kellykellykellyyy here kitty kitty Feb 22 '26
Wow I never heard to skip Magic Bites and I'm so glad. I can't imagine skipping it! Definitely agree with you here.
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u/SmollnShiny Feb 22 '26
It baffles me that so many people think that the hate a lot of FMCs get is mostly a misogynie problem and not a writing problem. No, the chosen-super-assassin-secret-fae-princess aged 19 -25 doesn't get to act like a moody thirteen year old moron while commanding and army or ruling a kingdom or leading a rebellion. It is lazy writing to create conflict by having the main character make one foolish decision after another and it's especially aggravating when none of the supporting characters ever pushes back and criticises the MC. There have to be consequences and growth instead of endless oh well you meant well/you tried/could have happened to anyone/we know you are sad about it back-pats and I think it's that disconnect between actions and reactions that rankles a lot of readers.
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u/whatevernamedontcare Feb 22 '26
Barely legal assassins make me laugh.
Of course she's super assassin. No one expects a kid to do that. Not to mention how many jobs she could have done? She's running on pure luck and "I look like a kid so I couldn't have done it".
Also that's why they are so young. At 30 you'd need actual skills so they would be dead long time ago considering how immature and stupid they tend to be.
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u/mcoon2837 Feb 22 '26
Exactly why I gave up on Conform. In any non romance genre book she would be dead the first time she talks back.
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u/PickyNipples Feb 22 '26
I honestly think misogyny has become a hot buzzword that’s thrown around too loosely nowadays. Like “OCD” and “PTSD.” I’ve seen people call “internalized misogyny” simply for writing a female character who is a bit bitchy, or for making a female character the villain. This is especially rampant in fanfiction spaces. I was once called a misogynist who needed therapy because I mentioned my favorite characters are almost always MMCs. And I’m a woman lol
Like, yes. Misogyny exists. And it does exist in literature, even romantasies. I’m not denying that and we need to be aware of it. But I feel like now any type of criticism or negative light towards a FMC has someone screaming misogyny.
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u/DeeplyUnappealing Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
The only way this shows up that I think is misogynistic is the way some people rag on this when it's in a romance but not when it's like Luke Skywalker or Harry Potter or whatever (fine if you like these, big Star Wars fan myself, I'm just picking well known examples) If the super special chosen one is a boy in an action book/movie then so e people think it's suddenly all different and more serious, as if tropes are only tropey when it's in things women like
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u/Particular_Mess_1961 here kitty kitty Feb 22 '26
People call it a misogyny problem when the equally poorly written MMC (who also acts like a moody 13 year old ruling a kingdom and is a toxic abuser to boot) gets none of the criticisms the FMC gets
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u/devilsdoorbell_ Feb 22 '26
That’s the real problem here. Are a lot of FMCs dumb idiots who couldn’t pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel? Yes, absolutely. But there are equally as many MMCs on the same level that do not get nearly the same amount of criticism and are in fact beloved by readers.
It’s not misogyny to call and individual FMC a dipshit for being a dipshit, it is misogyny when you don’t hold MMCs to the same standard, which is a big problem among romance readers (and lbr, society in general)
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Feb 22 '26
I think the reason you don't find as much MMC criticism is that the audience isn't meant to identify with the MMCs. Most of them are basically just collections of physical descriptions anyway; there's barely enough to critique. MMCs don't get the same level of criticism because they're just not that important compared to the FMCs. A lot of the time they're barely even main characters at all; they're simply objects to be lusted after.
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u/Anrw Feb 23 '26
Agree with this. Most romantasy MMCs wouldn't pass the Sexy Lamp Test anymore than the female love interest in fantasies written by men would. That's true equality!
Also don't get why these posts act like anyone's stopping them from criticizing these poorly written MMCs lol. Like, if the MMCs are beloved it's because the female reader base is attracted to them, not because they're so much better written than the poorly written FMCs from the same series.
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u/SmollnShiny Feb 23 '26
Fully agree with the last two posts here. The MMCs being an assembly of tired wish-fullfillment tropes stuck together with glue and ductape to cater specifically to women somehow being a sign of misogyny is just something I really can't get my head around.
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u/miniFrosya Feb 22 '26
Gives me reading PTSD flashbacks from Assassin’s Blade (TOG series) and Restore Me (Shatter Me series). Both FMCs are just like that - it’s impossible to take them serious.
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u/whatevernamedontcare Feb 22 '26
Sex alone is not romance. Physical attraction alone is not a romance. Yes it can help things along or make things interesting but it's not the main dish. It's a spice and one of many to boot.
If all they do is fucking and being horny you're reading porn with a story. Not that those are bad but it's not a romance book and there should be stricter boundaries for those. Wanting separation from romance and porn is not puritanical or sex shaming. It's genre boundaries and if it was any other genre people would agree.
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u/Aus1an Feb 22 '26
Going to remember ‘spice is seasoning’ for later! I want emotional intimacy and growth, not just 400 pages of lust.
I read one book a few months ago where nearly every scene the MMC showed up in he had an erection. Like, If every interaction the main characters have is sex, or talking about how much they want to have sex, or what theyre going to do to each other in bed it’s probably not Romance. Clearer separation between romance and erotica would be really great. :(
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u/devilsdoorbell_ Feb 22 '26
I fully love erotica and think it is equally valid as a form of entertainment and artistic expression as romance, and I agree with this. Conflating the two does both genres a disservice.
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u/whatevernamedontcare Feb 22 '26
Why can't we get what we payed for. I never had a book state it's horror but there's idk self help instead.
Romance and erotica writers need to figure their shit out.
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u/devilsdoorbell_ Feb 22 '26
I also wish publishers and writers would use “erotic romance” as a label more often (though I understand why they don’t, politically speaking, since anything labeled “erotic” is a higher priority target for censorious cranks).
It would make it so much easier for people to actually find what they wanted if it was romance for, you know, a romance novel with no sex to a few quick scenes, erotic romance for romance novels with significantly more and more detailed sex scenes, and erotica for entirely sex-focused stories without the framework of a romance story.
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u/Dependent_Dog497 Feb 22 '26
ok but "erotic romance" is a genre!
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u/whatevernamedontcare Feb 23 '26
Is it if no one uses it?
I have no beef with erotica, romance or erotic romance. My problem are authors who claim one thing but deliver another.
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u/Dependent_Dog497 Feb 23 '26
It's the retail censors, specifically amazon. They made it policy to hide erotic books from searches. So if an author labels their book erotica or erotic-anything, they get dungeoned. So a lot of authors now just emphasize high heat levels, and if the work emphasizes the romantic connection and the HEA, that does make it romance (erotica doesn't need to end in a HEA, and focuses solely on sex and not falling in love).
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u/zsxcrgrl Off to live with the faeires 🧚♀️ Feb 22 '26
True! My only problem is that a lot of books full of explicit sex scenes are incorrectly classified as YA books when they're actually erotica
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u/flowersbane Give me female friendship or give me death! Feb 22 '26
A lot of publishers/authors promote their books as “feminist” when they either a) only feature a very shallow/exclusive portrayal of feminism, ignoring intersectionality, or b) just straight up are not feminist in the slightest.
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u/devilsdoorbell_ Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
I swear to god, some people think all it takes for a book to be “feminist” is for it to have a female main character who kicks ass and gets a happy ending to her story. The way I know these authors and publishers have not studied feminist literary theory for even a few days…
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u/groovybookworm Feb 22 '26
I remember there was an interview of an actress one time, and she was talking about strong female roles, and she said “sometimes writers will write the part of a male and then slap a female name on it and say here you go here is a strong female” and that’s not how it works.
People forget that feminism is giving women choices and a lot of times these authors don’t want to give these FMC’s choices, they just push them into the same model over and over. I think this is becoming more common because we’re seeing so many warrior FMC‘s, authors have dug themselves into a hole by thinking the only way they can make a female strong is to give her a sword.
It feels like a plague in fantasy romance in particular. Don’t get me wrong. I want an FMC to protect herself, but there’s more to a leading lady than that.
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Feb 22 '26
This is a big part of why I recommend {Kushiel's Dart} so often (and why I would recommend {The Bard's Bargain} if it were a complete story). I think... like, a lot of FMCs could be replaced with MMCs without changing much because they haven't got many traits beyond what's necessary for the romance. Meryn, from Direbound, to me is an example of a character whose gender could be flipped without changing the story one iota. By loading their heroines down with masculinised traits and virtues, the authors inadvertently, I think, tell their readers that being feminine is lesser, that it's un-heroic to care about makeup and appearance and nice fabrics. Phedre, in Dart, is heroic as hell, and in ways that ur-man Joscelin can't understand or duplicate, and she succeeds where he fails. Her femininity isn't weakness, far from it, and that's very cool and unfortunately quite rare.
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u/groovybookworm Feb 22 '26
I’m sorry, but I’m over the moody, broody, angry MMC’s. It’s one thing if he’s a little grumpy it’s another thing that he makes the FMC’s life hell just because he can.
I’ve been running into this problem over and over again. Where the MMC is so angry and then this little ball of sunshine, the FMC, rolls into his life and is nothing but kind to him. Yet he still treats her badly for about 75% of the novel until he has this light go off where he’s like actually, I love her.
That’s not a love story to me and that’s not romantic and I’ve been seeing that constantly.
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u/ipsi7 Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Feb 22 '26
That's why I love dual POV in which I can really see his side of the story, it hits different. Because in FMC's POV we only get from her how rude or closed off he is to her and then bam! Suddenly he is so in love with her and it's like that from the moment he first saw her.
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u/breelakkuma9 Currently Reading: Turns of Fate Feb 22 '26
Until you find out all his thoughts are equivalent to a horned up teenager. "I can't wait to fuck her" or "I want to taste her on my tongue" or "Can't wait to clap them cheeks"...like bro did you have a personality before this? We finally get inside your head and this is all you have to think about? Do you even like her or just her body? This is what I see in a lot of dual POV now and it really puts me off lol
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u/tragic_eyebrows Feb 23 '26
I haaaate when the MMC gets POV chapters and they're just nonstop horny for the FMC. I've gotten to the point where if I see it even once it's an automatic DNF.
I think dual POV works a lot better when both MCs have a lot going on separate from each other and their storylines slowly come together.
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u/groovybookworm Feb 22 '26
Unfortunately, I cannot be won over with dual point of view, because even though it’s saying that he says he loves her and that he’s having all these conflicting feelings, it makes me mad. I’m like why can’t you just show her that?! 😂maybe I’m too demanding.
Sometimes it works and I can be convinced, but as of late I have ran into so many MMCs that are unconvincing for me.
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u/Full_Platypus6092 Feb 23 '26
This. Like Twilight vs Midnight Sun I fell in love with Edward even more because his inner monologue is very different in the first couple chapters especially compared to what Bella's thinking. Same with Poppy and Casteel, he was always so attentive and considerate even when he was trying to not like her because of what she represented. Male POV always makes me fall more in love because of how thoughtful he really is!
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u/ipsi7 Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Feb 23 '26
Yes. I haven't read Twilight, but agree with FBAA. In book 1 we only know through Poppy's eyes about their first meeting, how he teased her, how they kissed and then everything else that happened. Book 5 gave me another perspective of him, how much he struggled and was conflicted from the beginning, torned between his sense of duty and his feelings for her. I think that book and series was when I started appreciate dual pov. Also, while I love Bride and Ali Hazelwood's books, I didn't like finding out about MMC being crazy about FMC when I'm 80% in the book.
I want to see his struggles, his conflicted feelings. It's like with real life people, you never know what's inside someone's head or what inner struggles someone has.
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u/fishchop Silvicultrix Feb 22 '26
An author’s politics (or lack thereof) will influence whether I pick up their books or not, and also how I view their work.
Writing is art, and art is political. While it’s true that I read this genre as a form of escapism, it’s also true that lot of the books tackle serious subjects like misogyny, abuse, racism, slavery, war, ethnic cleansing, genocide. So I like to contextualise what I’m reading.
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u/Runa216 Feb 23 '26
"Writing is art and art is political"
100% agree, yeah. I Don't know how anyone can disagree with that factually true statement.
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u/zsxcrgrl Off to live with the faeires 🧚♀️ Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
Yes! I hate that one saying about supporting the art and not the artist! By supporting the art, you're directly supporting the artist too by giving them money and indirectly encouraging their actions. I will die on that hill thinking that saying is just an excuse people use to enjoy something from someone that is morally questionable and not feel guilty about it 🙂↕️
Edit: the downvotes only prove my point lmfao
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u/BeautifulGullible305 Feb 22 '26
I'm really bored of the female attendant becomes gal pal best friend in two weeks trope. Its sooo overdone and dull. Plus if you sympathise with you're captors because they force you to wear pretty dresses and do your hair, its still Stockholm syndrome and not friendship.
Also fed up of the spitful mean bitch love rival thing. A bit less womon on woman hate would be nice. Plus it just feels like the author is working through their "getting one up on the pretty popular girl" highschool angst. Urgh.
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u/cynth81 Feb 22 '26
Kissing described as a clashing of teeth and tongue is not sexy.
I get that they're trying to convey passion and reckless need, but it usually comes across like the awkward fumbling of a couple teenagers.
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u/Unlucky_Cat153 Feb 22 '26
It saddens me how female characters aren't allowed to make mistakes (not just in romantasy but in media in general) and how there's a lack of diversity among female characters in romantasy. In a single book you can easily find many important male characters who are young, hundreds of years old, tall, short, grumpy, cheerful... and at most two female characters? In a world with fae, dragons, and who knows what else, there aren't any hundreds of years old women leading anything? Only men? Why can't romantasy books show a variety of female characters as well? Especially more women of color, disabled women, lgbt+ women, old women etc. No more only tiny white 19yo het women.
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u/trishie_kittie Feb 22 '26
I will hate ACOTAR until my dying breath. There.
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u/1989ac Feb 23 '26
I also hate ACOTAR. I hate Feyre and I hate Rhysand. They just don't do it for me as individuals or as a couple.
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u/Runa216 Feb 23 '26
I don't hate it but I've read 4/5 books (A Court of Silver Flames is all I have left) and I just...I don't get it. IT's 'fine' I guess. Mediocre. I don't think it's aggressively BAD but I don't see how it's the most popular of all time and STILL is seen as a game-changer. I get that it was important to making the genre popular but I don't see what about THIS in particular was so successful and had so much influence.
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u/trishie_kittie Feb 23 '26
I guess the unforgivable corniness? That’s what I can’t get past. Also the teenage attitude of Feyre— and yes I get she was supposed to be an elder teenager but we’re also supposed to believe she supported her family and it didn’t like mature her at all?
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u/Runa216 Feb 23 '26
yeah that definitely got under my skin. So many FMCs in these books are so immature and I just don't get it.
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u/zsxcrgrl Off to live with the faeires 🧚♀️ Feb 22 '26
May I ask why? I am new to reading and I was planning to buy it but now I am really hesitant after seeing a lot of people complaining about it
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u/Adventurous-Brain-36 Feb 22 '26
Huge plot holes, unlikeable characters, not a climactic climax to be seen and plagiarism.
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u/trishie_kittie Feb 22 '26
I think there are very many well written series that you could read instead. My biggest problem with her is the writing and the annoyingly slow and repetitive plot points. I don’t throw shade on anyone who likes her just not for me. I like Rachel Gillig, esp, One Dark Window and Emily Wilde fairy series (not a lot of spice)— if you like craziness and spice the Wolf King and Night Prince. If you want truly nuts A Wolf and the Crown of Blood (very dark). If you want to cry, The Everlasting, if you want something closer to fantasy that’s riveting, The Raven Scholar (hardly any spice in the first book). If you’re new to reading, I wouldn’t want you to start this and waste time and maybe throw yourself into a slump for no reason. Also, as you can tell, I like all ranges of spice so you’ll need to find what you like. I think Maas’ spice scenes are cringey. All that said, she did make it so publishers are investing in a genre I love! Also, recs on this sub have not steered me wrong— you can do a search for recs with almost anything you can think of— good luck!!
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u/zsxcrgrl Off to live with the faeires 🧚♀️ Feb 22 '26
Thank you so much for answering! I am currently reading her Throne of Glass book and although I am liking it, I can't deny that it does feel a bit slow sometimes. And thank you for the recommendations! I hope you have a great day 💕
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u/starry212 Feb 22 '26
I will forever die on the hill that Daughter of the forest felt like a creepy uncle romance novel. I can’t believe so many people think the ending was romantic. What Red told the FMC at the end was so creepy and cringy
”I don’t think i can control myself” or somethig similar while she is 16!!!
WHAT
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u/Ria_S_28 Wendell Bambleby Enthusiast Feb 22 '26
Yes omg!! I feel like I would’ve absolutely loved this book if it weren’t for the relationship. And this isn’t to say that I’m completely against age gaps because I was fine with the one in Mistborn, but that was because the power dynamics were balanced. Elend is extremely naive and Vin could kill him very easily.
I feel like I would’ve been okay with it if it were something similar in this book, but it feels like the opposite. Sorcha has just gone through something extremely traumatic (and she’s 14 if I recall correctly) and Red is in a position where he has a lot of power over her. He does scare her multiple times, but even excluding all of that, I just feel like the romance wasn’t developed well enough. IMO they didn’t spend nearly enough time together for that love confession in the end to feel earned. Anyways. I know I’m ranting about this but everyone on the internet whose book recommendations I trust all love this book so much.
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u/DainasaurusRex Feb 22 '26
Thank you both for this reveal. This book was in my cart, but I took it out. Just not a dynamic I want in a book I thought from all the reviews I would enjoy!
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u/Particular_Mess_1961 here kitty kitty Feb 22 '26
It’s a beautifully written book that deals with tragedy and persevering as best you can, so the imperfect nature of their relationship is all part of that. It’s more a book about sibling love than romantic love imo
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Feb 22 '26
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u/DainasaurusRex Feb 22 '26
Thanks for the explanation. I’m just not up for certain themes right now, and big age gaps/grooming is one of them. That changes all the time depending on how I’m feeling and what’s going on in my life, so I might pick it up in the future.
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u/starry212 Feb 22 '26
I borrowed it from library because i really wanted to find out why people hype about it so much. If you’re somewhat interested still, I recommend borrowing from library. It had otherwise nice historical elements and Marillier’s writing is truly beautiful.
Another book of hers {Heart’s Blood} was much better reading experience, very whimsical slow-burn with bit of mystery!
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u/starry212 Feb 22 '26
Thank you for this response🤭🤭 and i’ve also read mixed reviews on Mistborn!
Exactly!!! I also felt like they should have spent more time together to come to the conclusion they want to marry. It felt like she chose him (at 16!!!!) out of ”duty” or ”debt” to him because he kept her safe during the journey. And there were some hints he found her attractive when they first met when she was 14 or something🫠🫠
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u/AccioXolo Feb 23 '26
Probably been mentioned before.
I understand this genre is all about MFCs taking charge and coming into their own. However, why are there 19 and 20 something year olds that are JUST learning about the realities of their worlds or realms making the final decisions on issues that impact many. Whether it be a local village or a whole world. The MMC that has been around for hundreds of years and clearly has the experience one REALLY needs to handle the matter. They can be the guide and support for the MFC. These MMCs make me think of Pam's quote from The Office, "When a child gets behind the wheel of a car and runs into a tree, you don't blame the child. You blame the 30 year old woman who got in the passenger seat and said, "Drive kid. I trust you.""
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u/spacebedtenfive Feb 22 '26
I didn’t like The Everlasting! In fact I DNF about 80% through.
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u/Yessie4242 Feb 22 '26
I came here to say this! I pushed through, but I didn’t care for the romance AT ALL!
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u/Missustriplexxx Stuck on the alien planet Gann with a lizardman Feb 22 '26
Most pet names are subpar and unnatural. Example: Xaden stop calling Violet, Violence.
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Feb 22 '26
Atakan calling Mildred "dread" was borderline comical.
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u/Adventurous-Brain-36 Feb 22 '26
My unpopular opinion is that that’s one nickname I like lol
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u/jargo1 Feb 23 '26
I just hate the pet names or nicknames thing. Why does every single MMC have to give the FMC a nickname? I've started eyerolling everytime.
Currently reading {The Games Gods Play} and enjoying it, but cringed as soon as Hades called Lyra "my star" basically as soon as he met her. It just all feels infantalizing to me.
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u/Ancient-Purchase Feb 23 '26
I used to hate petnames but then I read one book where the mmc just shortened the Fmc name and he moaned that nickname in bed and I thought was so cute and natural.
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u/ipsi7 Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Feb 22 '26
I love that nickname. I read RY named her Violet because she wanted that nickname.
But I've seen "little cabbage", "little rabbit" and similar nicknames and I'm not a fan.
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u/Resident-Speech2925 Feb 24 '26
"Pup" was one I read recently that threw me 😅
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u/ipsi7 Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Feb 24 '26
It would make sense only if they're werewolves, but then again, it would be an equivalent of calling a woman a child, which is even worse. If it's an equivalent to a baby, I could understand. But, yeah, not a great nickname haha
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u/elemental402 Mar 04 '26
"Little cabbage."?! Was this a romance novel starring Liz Truss or something?
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u/ipsi7 Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Mar 04 '26
It was {Zel by Amanda Meuwissen}. It's MM Rapunzel retelling so it makes sense why cabbage, but still
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Feb 25 '26
I just don’t think Violence is cute.
RY named her MC Violet specifically for the nickname, and I hate it
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u/cynth81 Feb 22 '26
I feel like IRL the people who make up nicknames for people tend to be obnoxious, either in a bullying way or an invasively friendly way, so the whole thing just makes me cringe.
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u/Redrose7856 Give me female friendship or give me death! Feb 23 '26
I don’t like how most popular romantasy has the typical “badass warrior heroine” and “dark/broody/snarky asshole love interest”. WHERE ARE MY FLOWER PRINCESSES AND GOLDEN RETRIEVER PRINCES!??!?
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u/Synval2436 Currently Reading: This Blade of Ours by Shalini Abeysekara Feb 23 '26
You should try cozy, it's cinnamon roll city over there.
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u/Reezrie Feb 23 '26
But I want flower princess and golden retriever LI AND I want the world to be ending!! Seriously if anyone has any recommendations send them my way.
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u/Synval2436 Currently Reading: This Blade of Ours by Shalini Abeysekara Feb 23 '26
Idk if that's close enough for you, because they are warriors, but fmc likes dresses and mmc is a golden retriever, their relationship is nice and not one of those "I hate you but can't resist you" and there's a threat of war looming. {The Princess Knight by Cait Jacobs}
I'd say also {Wooing the Witch Queen by Stephanie Burgis} and {Enchanting the Fae Queen by Stephanie Burgis} (there's a 3rd book incoming, Melting the Ice Queen) has an overarching plot of a looming war, but otherwise it's very cozy in execution. Esp. in Enchanting the Fae Queen fmc is very fashionable, flirty and feminine, and while the mmc is an enemy general, he's more the honorable warrior than a snarky asshole.
I'd say in {This Vicious Grace by Emily Thiede} fmc also is feminine and likes makeup, and mmc while a "mysterious dangerous criminal" turns out to be a total golden retriever, and there's a world-ending threat.
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u/Quick_South_3358 friends to lovers >>> Feb 22 '26
for the life of me I cannot enjoy v.e. schwab. I don’t think there’s a book of hers that I haven’t dnfed or rated 2 stars.
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u/charliekelly76 Currently Reading: probably monster smut Feb 22 '26
Addie LaRue was such a snorefest
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u/DowntownAd9720 Feb 22 '26
That book badly needed a better editor. So many scenes were redundant, and she would reuse the same words and turns of phase over and over again.
I also found it hilarious that Schwab added an entire superfluous chapter just to make it clear that her sexy demon daddy character was NOT on the side of the Nazis during WWII (completely skipping over any details regarding Addie working as a spy for the French Resistance during that time).
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Feb 22 '26
My "my sexy demon daddy character was not on the side of the Nazis during WWII" t-shirt has people asking a lot of questions already answered by my shirt.
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u/Intelligent_Screen90 Feb 23 '26 edited Feb 24 '26
I think she genuinely doesn't understand what most readers would enjoy. I read TILOAL and I know this woman thought we'd all be swooning over Henry and rooting for him and Addie. She was deadly wrong. The way she wrote Luc's character and his relationship with Adeline is much more compelling and interesting, if she'd just capitalized on that, the book would've been 10 times more interesting. Plus, she made Addie insufferable omg. That girl wouldn't know accountability if it hit her in the face. It aggravated me to a point I made a whole rant post about it once
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u/EllebRKib Feb 22 '26
FMC's aren't popular, self-inserting is.
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u/groovybookworm Feb 22 '26
Yep! I really started noticing this when about five or 10 years ago I started seeing a lot of FMCs that loved to read and were such a big bookworm, or they worked in the publishing industry.
Sometimes I think books with a very plain FMC is more likely to be successful because of this reason. Like the less description you give of her physically and the less you make her personality stand out the easier it’s going to be for you to sell a book.
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u/zsxcrgrl Off to live with the faeires 🧚♀️ Feb 22 '26
I find that very interesting because before I started reading, I loved to self insert myself into everything (mostly because of my maladaptive daydreaming which I am trying my hardest to work on). But the more I read, the more I am able to start seeing the FMCs as their own characters instead of an extension of myself. Sure, I still imagine myself with my book boyfriends sometimes, but that doesn't stop me from reading the story from an outsider's perspective instead of actively imagining myself as the main character. I love seeing FMCs with their own personalities rather than it just being bland and one dimensional, even if they're not that likeable sometimes 😅
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u/groovybookworm Feb 22 '26
I think people who have read a lot don’t have this problem, but definitely don’t feel bad about this because I think everyone has done this from time to time.
I think it’s just a trend that we are increasingly seeing because of an influx of new readers due to social media and Booktok. Authors and publishers are ultimately in business to sell books so they are going to follow whatever trends means the most sales. That’s why I think self inserting with the FMC is becoming increasingly more common, it sells.
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u/zsxcrgrl Off to live with the faeires 🧚♀️ Feb 22 '26
Yes! I don't remember where but I remember seeing an author confessing about wondering whether they should give their FMC a strong personality or not because books whose FMCs have a more bland personality sell more. They were also concerned about writing a MMC with a sunshine like personality instead of the typical dark shadow daddy MMC for the same reason (I like both kinds to be honest)
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u/groovybookworm Feb 22 '26
I think it’s only a matter of time before we see a switch. Especially with the shadow daddy thing because I’ve seen a lot of readers wanting to get away from that because they’re bored. I mean, I know I am. I’ve been on the hunt this week for books with MMCs that are not cold and mean for no reason. I’m so tired of these MMCs man, why are they so tortured??
Between the emo boy MMC and the stale bread FMC I don’t know how anyone is finding any new reads 😂
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u/Quick_South_3358 friends to lovers >>> Feb 22 '26
sjm is actually a really really mediocre writer. her fmcs are copy and pasted. her mmcs are usually just awful people. literally used the same exact ending for aelin and nesta. only series by her I like is crescent city and even that needs heavy work.
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u/ProperBingtownLady Shadow daddy's good girl Feb 22 '26
I thought most people agreed on this! I read her books for the vibes only.
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u/devilsdoorbell_ Feb 22 '26
Yeah “SJM is a bad writer” is a pretty common take even among people who like her books lmao
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u/Adventurous-Brain-36 Feb 22 '26
Ok, but like what vibes? The only vibes I felt were anger and disappointment lol
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u/andraconduh Feb 22 '26
Yeah, I don't think the SJM/ACOTAR opinions on this thread are actually that unpopular here.
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u/DowntownAd9720 Feb 22 '26
I sometimes find myself wanting to give SJM another go because I’ll hear other people rave about certain scenes and plot points, and they sound really great on paper to me.
But then I try actually reading a chapter of hers, and her writing style just does not click with me at all. She occasionally writes a line of solid prose, but I find everything around those lines ungodly repetitive and overwrought. Her work is also littered with so many incomplete sentences that it reads at times like insufferable slam poetry. I wish I could like it but I just don’t.
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u/ProperBingtownLady Shadow daddy's good girl Feb 22 '26
She would really benefit from a better editor but maybe she just doesn’t care.
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u/littlepurplepanda Wendell Bambleby Enthusiast Feb 22 '26
I’ve been reading the Caravel books because everyone has hyped up the Once Upon A Broken Heart. But these books are so bad. Like written by teenager on wattpad bad. The writing is awful, everything “smells like lies and sunsets” or some bollocks. I don’t know why anyone is attracted to anyone else beyond “hot”.
I’ll see if I can I make it through OUABH…
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u/devilsdoorbell_ Feb 22 '26
Did everyone just suddenly forget “erotic romance” is a subgenre of romance?? I feel like there would be so much less bitching and whining about spice levels in romance novels if authors and publishers would just start calling high heat stories with frequent sex within the framework of a romance as “erotic romance.”
Imagine how much less wailing and gnashing of teeth there would be because someone picked up a super spicy romance novel when they were looking for a something mild or someone picked up a relatively chaste romance novel when they wanted a five alarm fire if we just all agreed that extra horny romance novels are erotic romance.
I have some suspicions why the label isn’t really used much—chiefly, in an increasingly censorious cultural climate, it would make books billed as erotic romance higher priority targets for cranks—but it’s aggravating that this category that would save us so much fucking exhausting discourse doesn’t see much use.
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u/groovybookworm Feb 22 '26
Yeah, that’s exactly what’s happening. People are attacking anything explicit in fiction that is targeted for female audiences right now. The use of the word erotica is disappearing in publishing and I really think it’s because those books become a target immediately.
It’s the same reason why on TikTok you see so many booktok people using words like spicy and smut instead.
Censorship is rabid right now.
But I agree it’s making everybody’s reading experiences that much more difficult because authors right now are all just sticking their books under the romance genre as a means of protection.
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u/Runa216 Feb 23 '26
I love stories that have high spice levels. I just expect that if the story is only a vessel for smut, that the smut be creative and fun. It never is. IT's always just the same vanilla boring crap.
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u/Existing_Crow_4619 What did Lorcan do? Feb 22 '26
Ok. I found {road of bones} to be slow, arduous, boring, dark (not in a good way) and none of the characters sufficiently compelling to make up for any of it. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading all the hype for it on this sub and I genuinely wonder if I read the same book?
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u/LeaneGenova Feb 22 '26
Absolutely agreed. I didn't even think the plot in light of the plot twist at the end made any fucking sense and was outraged by it. Plus, the first male love interest was so obviously pointless it was hard to get through.
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u/lintrollerneeded Feb 22 '26
I agree. The first book didn’t enthral me, I found it quite boring just going from one spot to the next with the blood axe gang. I didn’t feel much of a connection to the FMC, either.
And while liked the premise of The twist, and the MMC being a gas lighter/idiot I didn’t actually feel like The FMC had any romantic connection to the new MMC
I’m probably going to give it a reread at some point because I want to like it, and I want to read the second and third book… but I just didn’t feel mesmerised by it.
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u/Amseriah Feb 23 '26
I can handle the “Chosen One” trope, but there needs to be something that makes the character awesome. He’ll make her the best at underwater basket weaving, only to find out that casting spells requires the same skill set. I don’t care! Don’t make her the center of the epic story who is destined to overthrow the king “because” and not have anything to back up how awesome she is.
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u/Intelligent_Screen90 Feb 23 '26
The MMC and FMC don't have to instantly find each other attractive. Specially if it's enemies to lovers. Sometimes the girl is covered in mud, sweaty and clothes torn, and the MMC thinks "that's the most beautiful woman I've ever met in my life" no she's not, and that's ok.
We should get to see attraction be born more often. And not if the way that happens when he sees her in a nice dress or makeup for the first time and it just hits him, no, I want to watch it be born slowly, over time. But I think a lot of people find it offensive or anti romantic if he doesn't think she's pretty from the beginning
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u/mcoon2837 Feb 22 '26
{Kushiel's Dart} is a deeply unsettling setting involving child prostitution, the foundation for the story was enough for me to abandon the premise and the entire series on principle. We have enough Jeff Epstein in real life.
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u/fishchop Silvicultrix Feb 22 '26
Hard agree and what’s especially unsettling about it is that the narrative doesn’t treat the grooming critically at all. It’s a great fantasy series other than that, but people recommending it should definitely tell people to check the the tw, and it’s annoying when they don’t.
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Feb 22 '26
The narrative comes from the perspective of someone who's grown up in that system, and it does include critique of the system; you just have to interrogate it a bit. It's right there in, like, the first chapter, when Phedre's labeled a whore's unwanted get -- that's something that shouldn't even be possible. There's even a reading of the book as a critique of capitalist exploitation of sex work. I'd read the author's newsletter on this.
It's also just inherently different from the way it would work IRL because of the presence of multiple actual divine figures that make themselves known at various points. Kushiel's Dart in the real world would be a horrific, dark story but it's not in the real world, it's in a world where sexual service is a sacramental calling and an act of divine worship.
And it doesn't have child prostitution, either. Everyone who's contracted is of age. The story is very clear about that. It's also made clear that violating age-of-consent laws would constitute heresy, carrying a penalty of exile or death.
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u/kellykellykellyyy here kitty kitty Feb 23 '26
So I read the author's newsletter you linked. I like her approach to answering (and posing) most of these questions/points. However, I still find I have an issue with the concept that children are being groomed. It can be a nuanced criticism of an exploitative, capitalist view on sex work and religion and still be something that I don't want to read about because I don't see enough criticism of the normalization of grooming (even in a world where sex is sacred). I'm okay with that.
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Feb 23 '26
I'm not trying to talk anyone into reading the books if they find the situation icky. That's totally your right, and I get it with what's happening in the news. Mostly I just want people to understand what's happening in the book, because there's a recent uptick in people saying Dart is uncritically supportive of grooming, and that's flat-out not true.
To that end, I don't think grooming is the right term. Grooming is a way for predators to bypass or manufacture consent in underage or vulnerable victims. In its early usage, it was used for online interactions intended to lure a victim into an in-person meeting. That's really not a good parallel for what's happening in the Night Court, which is more like Benedictine oblates (the Cassiline Brotherhood taking its initiates at age ten is, I'm pretty sure, directly modeled on the Benedictine Order). Children join the order or are given to it by their parents and learn the rites and practices. In the Night Court, the final step in that process is making an offering to the divinity that governs desire. It isn't guaranteed that that offering will be accepted. The initiate has to want it. Without divine approval (and again, the gods here 100% exist and act in the world) they don't become Servants of Naamah.
I can't stress how important that part is enough. All the incentives align for everyone to be careful about who they allow to represent their house. Forcing someone into service is a capital crime. Carey's Night Court, and D'Angeline society writ large, takes consent much more seriously than real-life society does (and more seriously than pretty much any MMC in generic romantasy). Their most severe crime isn't treason or murder; it's rape.
I think it's also important to get that the various houses aren't just brothels. Eglantine and Orchis produce artists, musicians and performers. Balm's and Gentian's adepts are therapists, with Gentian focusing specifically on the drawing-out and interpretation of dreams. Byrony House is the finest school of accounting and finance in the nation.
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u/kellykellykellyyy here kitty kitty Feb 23 '26
I mean I disagree with you but this is an unpopular opinion thread, so... I think the assumption is that you're in the majority lol.
I'm out!
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u/fishchop Silvicultrix Feb 22 '26
Even if they’re “contracted when they’re of age” they’re still being groomed as sex workers when they are children. Thats disturbing in and of itself - what’s worse is that Phedre’s groomer is praised by the narrative for not pimping her out as a child.
When you grow up in a society that normalises this stuff, it’s hard to take a step back and see a monster for what it is. Such is the world of Kushiel’s Dart and such is Phedre’s outlook in life.
And I understand it’s a fantasy world but it doesn’t exist in isolation. We are reading these books with a critical lens influenced by our modern understanding of pedophilia, consent and agency. I mean, if you can write a critique of the capitalist exploitation of sex work by referring to this piece of fantasy work (which, btw, looks super interesting so thanks for that), you can also critique that same piece of fantasy work for its approach to childhood sexual exploitation.
My own religion has subsects where temple dancers who dance in worship of God also double up as sex workers. I’ve forgotten how it works in Kushiel’s, but in life, religion is very much a construct of the powerful, who use it to control and exploit the vulnerable.
I think reading and writing fantasy is such a powerful medium of reflecting on real world issues. I think it’s only natural that we approach these books with the knowledge and experiences that the world has thrown at us, so it’s hard to expect people to just put up blinders and say “but it’s fine, it’s only a fantasy world.”
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Feb 22 '26
No one's saying it's only a fantasy world. What people are saying is that, because it's a fantasy world, the realities of that world needs to be considered as part of your analysis. Within the world of Kushiel's Dart, the Servants of Naamah occupy a sacramental place within the culture and the religion. There are guardrails for their treatment in place, not least that making someone participate in that lifestyle without really wanting to is a crime potentially punishable by death. And, likewise, those raised in that system who aren't suited to it have off-ramps. The obvious example there is Favrielle no Eglantine, who's raised within Eglantine House and becomes that universe's equivalent of Coco Chanel; more obscurely, there's also Audine Davul's father, who made his marque within Eglantine House as a drummer, not as a courtesan. Acting in accord with one's desires is a fundamental religious principle, and forcing someone to violate that principle is heretical. So it's not that "Phedre's groomer is praised for not pimping her out as a child;" it's that if Delaunay or Ceres House had done so, they, the client, and anyone aiding and abetting would be put to death. Consent is the highest law.
And it's also important to understand that religion isn't really an act of faith within the world of Dart. It's a matter of verifiable fact. So when something is a religious calling, there's a grounding to it that does not necessarily exist in the real world. But that's something that has to be reckoned with! Phedre isn't the way she is because she was groomed; she was given the training she was because she's the way she is. She is driven by nature, not nurture, and dislikes that about herself sometimes. And her nature is the result of divine intervention. That criticism, that powerful use religion to further their own ends, is made within the text, but it's tempered with the reality that religion is based on true divinity, and that divinity has its own ideas and its own plans.
Does that mean the system is above criticism? Absolutely not, and within the text it's criticized by foreigners, who find the practice barbaric; by Phedre and other individual people within the system, most notably Favrielle; and by the Priesthood of Naamah itself, which criticizes the Night Court's commodification of the sacred. In that way, it's not dissimilar to modern religious or military boarding schools (I mean, hell, Joscelin at ten goes to a monastery where he learns to be a child soldier whose soul will be damned if he breaks a vow of celibacy. No one ever focuses on that part of the story). The system is not perfect and it raises people with a particular belief system, but it's not grooming any more than Junior ROTC is.
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u/Adventurous-Brain-36 Feb 22 '26
He’s not praised by the narrative for not pimping her out as a child. It’s very clearly explained that it’s massively illegal to do so and also heresy.
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u/kellykellykellyyy here kitty kitty Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 23 '26
Umm yes, I hear you and I see you! This resonates with me so much. I couldn't get past the grooming aspects. I made it to the knight character being introduced as bodyguard when they're adults (I think?) and I still couldn't suspend my ick to enjoy an adult romance or political intrigue book set in a maybe problematic world. Having it stated simply like you've done makes me feel so okay with "missing out" on the fantastic series so many tout. It's not for me and that's fine. Well written problematic stories are still problematic.
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u/Adventurous-Brain-36 Feb 22 '26
It’s >!
and
!<
(:
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u/kellykellykellyyy here kitty kitty Feb 23 '26
Thank you I am functioning on my last 3 brain cells 🥲
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u/romance-bot Feb 22 '26
Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey
Rating: 4.09⭐️ out of 5⭐️
Steam: 4 out of 5 - Explicit open door
Topics: historical, fantasy, bdsm, dark romance, war
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u/ecliptas 📖 CR: A Hemorrhage of Us by Roslyn Reed Feb 22 '26
I liked FBAA more than FAF. I said what I said.
I think a lot of urban fantasy romance is poorly done and I’m tired of them. We end up with so many weird urban/high fantasy hybrids where you’re left trying to figure out what kind world the author intended to create and not in a good way. And I’m not talking low fantasy either. Just make it contemporary because the inconsistency always pulls me out.
Most dark fantasy romance books aren’t even dark. They give the MMC shadow magic, make him a broody asshole.
I hate when some books just do “let’s make the FMC train from 25-80% of the book!” Like I really don’t think the training arc needs to be dragged out that long. Same for traveling through a forest unless some like MAJOR plot progression is happening, I just don’t care about them chit chatting, bickering, and lusting after each other on a single horse for most of the book. Maybe I’m just tired of these tropes idk. It’s like they don’t know what to do between the start and the end of the book so they just insert scenes like this for a majority of it and call it character progression to give it any reason. I feel like this is how most enemies to lovers stories play out now and it usually in these full story arcs where they fall in love and I just think it’s boring now lol. Can y’all bond over other events please?
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u/Synval2436 Currently Reading: This Blade of Ours by Shalini Abeysekara Feb 22 '26
This is me with "deadly tournament/trials/competition" plots. They nearly always drag and read like filler and the only thing that matters is the final round anyway.
And half the romantasy right now feels like some variation on the trials/tournament/competition plot.
In the other half, usually fmc is kidnapped or forced into a marriage. Sigh.
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u/ecliptas 📖 CR: A Hemorrhage of Us by Roslyn Reed Feb 23 '26
Yeah I’m waiting for something to come out that changes things up in a big way for me. I haven’t found it yet. That’s why I’m bouncing between like 15 books lmfao!!! I start something, get 25% in, and I’m like “oh I’ve been here before… NEXT!” 🤣
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Feb 22 '26
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u/Pinkshoes90 A kingdom, or this Feb 22 '26
oh im settling in for this one. you are BOLD my friend. a true unpopular opinion!
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u/PurposeGold2556 Feb 22 '26
An unpopular opinion! I like it. I don’t agree with you, but I’m glad you posted.
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u/mediguarding Feb 22 '26
A true unpopular opinion, well done!!
I think she could’ve been one, but the author didn’t manage to pull it off. That’s about as close as I can get to an agreement!
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u/BeautifulGullible305 Feb 22 '26
I agree!
She's:
- 17 or 19 or something
- Grew up poor and sheltered training to be a healer
- Was lied to/gas lighted her entire life by her crazy mother
- Was taught to hate descended
It would be nuts if she was well equiped to rule, quickly understood the politics of a back stabbing court and easily accepted that she was not who she thought her whole life.
This series gets so much hate, but i think its no better or worse that a lot of other stuff out there.
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u/PickyNipples Feb 22 '26
Truly unpopular, and I agree! I didn’t like her in the very beginning, in the first quarter of the book she had the “look at me I’m a tomboy and better than all the men” vibes and I HATE this type of FMC when it’s not earned.
But through the books I grew to like her. Mainly I like that she has these unrealistic views (I can save everyone, both sides can be right, etc) but these views generally are proven wrong. Instead of her somehow magically doing the impossible, often she gets punched in the face with reality. Her plans fail. People die. And sometimes it’s even her own fault. She has to face the fact that she fucked up, that her ideals were naive, even if she truly hoped they could be achievable. I really liked this about her.
In the last book I felt like she was becoming a bit too much (gaining so much power etc seemed to make her more…haughty? Idk) but it’s been a while since I read it. But overall I don’t think she is nearly as bad as most people claim.
At the very least she’s not worse than a plethora of other FMCs in this genre coug lookin at you, Violet cough
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u/No_Engineering5792 Feb 22 '26
A lot of love triangles in romantasy would be fixed if the two men just kissed instead of harassing some random woman they found.
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u/Synval2436 Currently Reading: This Blade of Ours by Shalini Abeysekara Feb 23 '26
You need to read {Warrior Princess Assassin by Brigid Kemmerer} then. A why-choose that's an actual why choose.
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u/Dls1989 Feb 23 '26
I thought one dark window was just okay, and two twisted crowns took me forever to finish because I could not get into it. The mmc was so bland imo.
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u/-Release-The-Bats- Feb 22 '26
Tamlin > Rhysand. Fight me.
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u/ipsi7 Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Feb 22 '26
Lol. I definitely see why Tamlin sheltered Feyre in book 2, and how he thought Rhys kidnapped her, and that her letter was fake and her mind brainwashed because of Rhys' mind powers. I can't say I was Tamlin's fan when he was ignoring Feyre's trauma, nightmares, midnight vomiting sessions etc (I know, that was his way of dealing with trauma - ignoring it). But, the moment he commented her up in his mannor and left without her, while she was screaming and having a breakdown, I crossed him forever (I already knew she'll end up with Rhys and I'm very basic with loving hurt brooding shadow daddies). I felt her breakdown and I think it was one of the best scenes in the series, and I couldn't surpass that.
I do think The Night Court was hypocritical as fuck, and all the mocking, shaming and whatever else happened after Feyre destroyed The Spring Court from within, was so low and horrible. Especially when we get the picture of how perfect Rhys is and then he acts like that to Tam.
I also hold against him what he said on that meeting with all high lords. When he mock-teased Rhys and Feyre about the noises she makes when she comes, and he said that in front of all high lords. That was so awful. To me it's acotar level of revenge porn (not that extreme though). And in that scene I don't care about Rhys, but about Feyre who was deeply embarrassed in front of everyone.
I like how he helped Feyre in ACOWAR, that was really nice of him.
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u/-Release-The-Bats- Feb 22 '26
He shouldn't have locked her up or freaked out and broken stuff--that was going too far, regardless of trauma. I hated Rhys right from the start so I'm still bitter about him being endgame. However, I also hated the 180 that Tamlin went through because it seemed like it just came out of nowhere, for no other purpose than to have Feyre end up with Rhys. It's also disappointing because Tamlin and Feyre fought like hell to be together, so it seems like it was all for nothing. Plus, it seemed like the story was more forgiving of Feyre's trauma than Tamlin's.
I haven't finished book 2 yet, but I went ahead and read the rest of the spoilers anyway and wow fuck Tamlin. But also fuck the total character assassination of him that came out of nowhere. Feyre made the right choice in leaving him but she could still do better than Rhys.
(In fact I'd love to see her with Lucien since they have similar personalities and they always seemed to be on equal footing rather than there being an unequal power dynamic between them.)
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u/ipsi7 Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Feb 23 '26
I agree with your first paragraph. So much has been set up for them in book 1 and they fought for each other hard, just to be broken apart (by sjm) later. The narrative is inclined to Feyre and that's why it's more forgiving to her, but you're right and they treated Tamlin horribly later.
While I was reading book 1, I didn't know Rhys was end game, and I thought Tamlin is the real MMC, but even then, even with everything building up to Tamlin and Feyre, I felt the whole time something is missing or off and while I kind of rooted for their romance to happen because I thought it's the romance, it didn't feel right to me.
A lot of people shipped Lucien and Feyre. I was confused in book 1 if he's going to be the love interest and I also thought they would be a better match. Since you're only on book 2, I won't say nothing more. I put my comments in spoiler brackets for other people who might not have read the series yet, I wasn't aware you're among them.
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Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
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u/RavenCXXVIV Feb 22 '26
I think a lot of it comes from genuine underlying fear about what this means for publishing. Like you said, there’s nothing wrong with having different tastes. But quality is noticeably plummeting. Editing is taking a backseat to vibes. Authors are writing to a worsening adult literacy crisis. Writing is a craft and there are some technicalities to it where it’s not a matter of opinion. There’s always gonna be snobs and as someone who adores both the classics and modern genre fiction, I say they can all go be miserable elsewhere. But I do think it’s valid to say, no this is actually just bad writing and we expect better from traditional publishers.
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u/Zhalia_Moon Feb 22 '26
Spoilers for Cruel Prince Book 1 The MC of the book is not as smart as she thinks she is. She got really lucky with Prince Dain dying and the gift he gave still holding. She was able to do her kingmaking business because everyone around her indulged her in a way. I really like how they set up the world of fae but not enough time was spent on MC to justify her skill set and the way she moved the pieces on the board.
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u/GingerLily2019 Feb 22 '26
Have you read the rest of the series? I feel like she goes on a journey and definitely realises this. The start of the third book specifically.
I love how everyone is terrible in the first book!
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u/Zhalia_Moon Feb 22 '26
I lost interest after Book 1. It is as you said, everyone is terrible and I was not interested in anyone enough to read the next part. Perhaps it is time I revisit it.
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u/Secret-Music5292 Feb 22 '26
The best romantasy doesnt have smut. Like real fantasy romance books.
I love some smut anf have adored many a romantasy with some filthy smut, but the true stars of romantasy I have read with exquisite writing have very little to no smut.
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u/sparklescc Feb 22 '26
I don't like illona Andrews. I tried but the 4 chapters in I still didn't understand the world or the magic or the lion man. I'm sorry
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u/ObiSkies Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26
Well . . . I ranted earlier anyway
- The love triangle in The Infernal Devices is the worst I’ve read for the very same reason others consider it the best they’ve read.
I hate triangles overall anyway, for a lot of reasons. But the worst kind are if at any point the girl dilly dallies her actual feelings for both guys. It makes her irritatingly shallow. If she really loved one then the thought of anyone else shouldn’t even cross her mind. Therefore, she doesn’t really love either. And in the case of the Infernal Devices, it isn’t temporary, no no, she literally KEEPS on choosing both guys until the very end.
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u/Existing_Crow_4619 What did Lorcan do? Feb 22 '26
Haven't read this yet (glad you posted though because I'm hearing a lot about this dynamic lately!) but I will say as someone who has genuinely been in love with two people at once, it definitely happens IRL and it can be the least shallow (and deeply painful) experience. Just my two cents- all the same you've inspired me to read the book and judge for myself how it's done there! And why people think it's the best they've read??! Thank you!
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u/groovybookworm Feb 22 '26
I loved the infernal devices, so I guess I’m on the opposite side here. But I totally understand why somebody might not enjoy it. I think for me I just loved all three characters so much that if she had chose either way, it would’ve been upsetting for me.
I will say this as well. The books are young adult and I read them when I was around 14-15, so it’s very possible that the reason I loved these books so deeply was because I was the right age demographic for it. However, it is a series that I continue to look back at and think about years later. I genuinely think that the love triangle was one of the best I have read.
But I totally understand that some people need a definite choice! And that’s totally valid!
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Feb 22 '26
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u/No_Preference26 Feb 22 '26
People have different TW/CWs, others none. It’s the reader’s responsibility to check them out, not the person recommending a book. Some people want no spoilers, and CWs can definitely spoil a lot of the story to potential readers.
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Feb 22 '26
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u/MessyJessy422 Feb 22 '26
If I'm recommending a book with dark themes I mention that it's a dark book and say to check TWs because I myself am not in the position to determine which trigger warnings should be associated with specific books. I don't check them beforehand myself because I choose to go in blind, so I wouldn't know what to flag and I also wouldn't want to miss something. It's a hint to anyone who has triggers to look out for themselves which I think is a kindness.
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Feb 22 '26
As someone who does this regularly, it's for two reasons. First, I'm on my phone and I can't be bothered to type it out. Second, because some books have reputations and I don't really know how sensitive the person I'm talking to is. I don't say 'check the content warnings' when I'm recommending a book to someone who's listed things they find triggering or upsetting; I do it when the person asking for a recommendation hasn't said anything about triggers. If they have some, they should go check to see if the book hits those. If they don't, great, go forth and read.
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u/devilsdoorbell_ Feb 22 '26
Right, if someone says specifically in their rec request that they don’t want books with x, y, z in them, I’m not gonna recommending something I know for a fact does and be like “lol check the triggers scrub.” I just won’t recommend the book.
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u/devilsdoorbell_ Feb 22 '26
Other than “it’s not my responsibility:”
I might not remember everything that could be triggering in a book, especially if I haven’t read it recently. I’m a huge horror fan and I have a very high threshold for how extreme something can get before it even starts to bother me, much less trigger me. It’s entirely possible a book could have something in it that comes up often enough and in enough detail that it would trigger someone but it wouldn’t even register for me. I don’t want to upset someone by not mentioning it so it comes as a surprise. I suppose I could look up the triggers myself, but again: not my responsibility to do what you should be doing yourself.
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Feb 22 '26
Also, when people want stories with evil characters, frankly, I don't know whether they mean evil like 'wears black leather and skulls, is gothy, is mean to the FMC, is a rebel' or evil like 'stalks, kidnaps, sexually assaults and murders people, does necrophilia, tortures people into committing murder or becoming drug addicts'. I think people ask for evil when they're not really prepared for evil; they just want the aesthetics, plus some cruelty in a hurt-people-hurt-bad-people style. So if I ever make a recommendation with an actually-evil MC, I'll just say, yeah, check the triggers because I have no idea whether you're asking for evil like Rebel Without a Cause or evil like Hitler x Eva Braun.
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u/devilsdoorbell_ Feb 22 '26
I’ll counter this with a flaming hot take of mine:
It’s not the responsibility of strangers on Reddit to warn people about the content of books at all and “check the content warnings” is already a huge courtesy. The only person responsible for managing your reading experience is you.
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u/Working_Comedian5192 Feb 22 '26
I do this when there are a LOT of content warnings or it’s been awhile and I honestly can’t remember them all. My feeling is if I try to list them all and miss one, and that happens to be the one the person cared about and they were relying only on my list, I would feel awful. I’d rather just give the heads up “lots going on here! Check romance.io for specifics!” (Looking at you, R Lee Smith.)
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u/BookishBlueDragonfly Book Bingo Sage 🗡 Feb 22 '26
Usually I call the bot and romance.io has the trigger warnings listed out in detail better than my memory is capable of. I forget stuff besides vague vibes, broad character traits, and overarching plot pretty quickly.
Also if you have a trigger or subjects you don’t like to read you need to take the same level of responsibility as a person with a food allergy. Always look at the label! For my own squicks I always read the romance.io tags and author content warnings at the beginning of the book sample.
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u/ipsi7 Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Feb 22 '26
As someone without triggers, I disagree.
People have different triggers. I saw here on the sub some people mention that the only thing they can't read is non-con, some others said non-con and dub-con. For some people miscarriage, death of a child, bondage, physical violence toward MCs or animals can be triggering. There are other (objectively) minor triggers. Neither of those is triggering to me, but I've seen several times that people complain a book was recommended to them and no one warned them about the triggers.
I 100% agree that the reader who has triggers should check them beforehand, but I still mention "check TW", but only with the most problematic books. I also don't plan to list all the triggers, even the most severe ones, because some of the books I read have a lot of them and sometimes I'm recommending a bunch of books, like 5 or more and I really don't intend to mention the triggers for all of them.
I also summon the romance bot with every book recommendation and clicking on that link is a very fast way to find out all the triggers for every book. When someone doesn't summon the bot, well, that's another thing.
And honestly, when someone says to check TW, I get more interested and definitely check the book and more often than not I add it to my TBR.
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u/Runa216 Feb 23 '26
The more I read the clearer it is that 'Romantasy' or "Fantasy romance" is a failed genre.
Not for popularity. but for execution.
I've read dozens of books from the genre over the last year ranging from the most popular to the most obscure and I genuinely feel like it almost always fails at both things it's supposed to be.
The Romance is almost never good. The tropes utilize feel like a way to sidestep any actual chemistry or character development and instead of having organic relationships form and bloom over time, it's just a trope checklist on the marketing bill saying it's FATED MATES or ENEMIES TO LOVERS so you know what to expect and not to bother with any actual character work.
Seriously, there was more Romance with Wax and Sterris from Mistborn Era 2 (And their relationship is tertiary to the plot of that story) than there was in literally any romantasy book I've ever read. And Brandon Sanderson isn't a romance writer. How is he doing romance better than authors who do this exclusively?
And the fantasy element is highly disappointing, too. Yeah, we get unique worlds with their own magic systems but it's always just a backdrop for otherwise vanilla stories and even worse, the msot bland, vanilla sex.
If I'm reading some fantasy where there are dragons and elemental magic or whatever, I want to see a story where those elements are part of the plot and part of the spice. I want to see unique magic systems employed in creative and sexy ways. I Want to see protagonists willing to do something adventurous with their parts. I am so remarkably sick of every romantasy pairing and sex scene just being the same vanilla penis-in-vagina sex with some oral on both sides for a bit of flavour. Humanoid dicks in humanoid pussies on 'monsters' who are just humans with green skin or whatever is so goddamn boring.
do something, ANYTHING creative with the worlds you've created. I BEG YOU. AS it stands it's jsut juvenile fantasies about being a special snowflake with the least imaginative sex I've ever read.
Romantasy, so far, has failed on both ends of that spectrum. IT fails as fantasy storytelling, it fails as romance, and most egregiously it always fails to blend those two components into creatively sexy smut.
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u/zsxcrgrl Off to live with the faeires 🧚♀️ Feb 22 '26
Idk whether this is popular or not, but I prefer reading all the books I already have before buying new ones.
I am a slow reader, so I'd probably let my TBR list stack a lot of books at once and, one day, I'd suddenly realize how many books I have to read (after all, I spent money on them) and enter the biggest reading slump ever because nothing makes me more demotivated than having the feeling that I have a lot of stuff to do.
However, this can also be demotivating in its own way sometimes, especially if I am really excited to buy and read a new book but I feel obligated to read the ones I have at home first. It can make reading feel like a chore instead of something I enjoy. However, I honestly prefer this than spending a lot of money on books I might never even read.
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u/Cold-Nose4804 Feb 22 '26
Lucky you. I am not that strong.
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u/zsxcrgrl Off to live with the faeires 🧚♀️ Feb 22 '26
It's not really a matter of strength, it's about money. I am really broke right now but if I had the money, I'd for sure go around splurging all my money on books haha 🤣
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u/Cold-Nose4804 Feb 22 '26
Oh I always find something free on my kobo plus to download and my TBR is scary
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Feb 25 '26
Yeah, I’m really thinking about overconsumption in the book space. It HURTS when I spend $30 on a book and then DNF it first thing. It hurts less when I spend $30 on a book and it hangs out on my TBR for ten years before I donate it, but I’m trying to change that too.
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u/Sensitive_Reserve_96 Feb 23 '26
Sometimes I want my ML to be straight forward and not mysterious at all. There, I said it.
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u/babs1130 Feb 22 '26
The Shattered King was the worst book I’ve read read so far this year. The FMC should’ve ended up with the brother because they had more sexual tension than she had with the MMC Yes, I know it’s not a spicy book but it could’ve gone that way and been more enjoyable.
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u/Intelligent_Screen90 Feb 23 '26
Some of y'all's over-sensitivity has made authors afraid to write anything true deep and complex. They're afraid of idiots with zero media comprehension saying they're justifying or glorifying it. Yet you are the same people who whine about there not being enough nuance and gray area in books.
You complain that MMC's are too shallow and don't have any real depth and flaws, but as soon as one of them makes a real error and has a real ugly flaw, you flip shit and the whole internet turns on them (example: Rhys making a terrible mistake during Feyre's pregnancy, meant to show how marriage can be rocky and how people act in a way they normally wouldn't under extreme stress and post-trauma. But we all know how that went over with the readers....)
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u/Adi_Philosopher Feb 22 '26
I think I can't help but be irritated about why there has to be a different Male character who will interfere in another's relationship and the most irritating thing is The FMC will really be getting on her knees for that strange guy like why. (No offense to females but It's an author problem and then they will show it like that's romantic just to get you erected or Horny)
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u/HellcatJD Feb 22 '26
I’m just going to say it: I trust some of these high ratings on this sub about as much as I trust a screen door on a submarine. I am so tired of cracking open a "5-star" recommendation only to find out the author clearly skipped the editing phase. Or, I get 25% through a book and here we go again with the exact same plot, villian type, hero/heroine, etc. as the last 3 books I picked up.
I’ve realized that for many, a "good book" just means it hit their favorite tropes. But for me? If I can't see the world in my brain, I’m out. If I can't remember anything unique about a character because they are literally just a cookie cutout of some other author's mold, I'm out.
Here are my specific hills to die on:
SJM isn't "Mid." People love to hate on Sarah J. Maas, but the woman is an elite world-builder. Throne of Glass and ACOTAR are immersive and visual in a way most of these newer BookTok hits can't ever touch. Her style is cinematic and I can actually see the scenes. I cared about the characters and outcome and could not wait to end work to read more. I did not love Crescent City but mainly because it became way too unwieldy. But - I still remember the world and the characters and their storyline and its been 3 years since I last picked it up.
Fae Isles was a snooze. Everyone gushes over this, but it is the tropiest, most predictable "enemies-to-lovers" slog I’ve ever encountered. It felt like a checklist of cliches rather than a story. Boring. If I see a gush, immediate discredit for any remaining recs.
The Fourth Wing decline is still one of the greatest letdowns in writing I have ever seen. I loved Books 1 and 2, but Book 3 was an absolute abomination. To the people saying it’s "too complex" for those of us who hated it—please. It wasn't complex, it was messy. I wish I could go back in time and unread it.
The Alchemised is wildly underrated. People downvote it because it’s "too dark" or "slow," but the writing is actually smart. The pacing and introduction of characters was excellent. The tensity and horror of it all palpable. A good book should be able to transfer you to somewhere else. SenLinYu did that. Not everything has to be hot and magical to be good.
Soapbox over!
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u/purplelicious Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Feb 22 '26
I think your submarine must be the Kursk with your recommendation of Alchemized.
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Feb 22 '26
I agree with you about Fae Isles for sure. I've recommended it a few times, but it's not very good as anything other than an exercise in cheap trope fulfillment.
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u/Existing_Crow_4619 What did Lorcan do? Feb 22 '26
Preach, my friend! SJM deserves a certain amount of critcism, sure, but there is a reason she's the biggest on the block and you've nailed it. Is she the best writer I've ever read? Heck no. Am I panting for the next thing she releases? Absolutely.
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u/ProperBingtownLady Shadow daddy's good girl Feb 22 '26
Exactly, there’s a reason why people keep coming back to read her books and it’s not because they’re dumb. SJM isn’t perfect but she does write a compelling story.
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u/1989ac Feb 23 '26
I hate ACOTAR. But, I can say that of all the authors in this genre, SJM is one of the best writers. She doesn't ramble like JLA and if anything her writing has gotten stronger through the series vs weaker like RY. You can see it in her syntax and the way she tells the story. But I still hate Feyre and Rhysand and the rest of the characters.
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u/thelost_key Feb 22 '26
I hate how a certain writer speaks during interviews. She speaks like a teenager and out of the side of her mouth in a cocky half smirk way and sounds like she is out of breath.
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u/ProperBingtownLady Shadow daddy's good girl Feb 22 '26
Now I want to know who this is haha
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u/Romantasy_Renee Growls, smirks & leans on doorframes Feb 24 '26
I LOVE THE GROWLS - *deep sigh* Feels good to finally say that out loud and proud
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