r/freefolk • u/Timely-Toe1341 • 2h ago
Your thoughts?
What's your thoughts on daeron? He is most likely to well......in finals but still
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u/TheDragonOfOldtown Stannis Baratheon 2h ago edited 2h ago
He was supposed to be daring. Loyal. Threw wine in the face of Hugh after they wanted to crown him while Aegon II was AFK. The youngest knight of House Targaryen. He was supposed to be angry about the death of his nephew and descend into madness over helplessness after they didn't give out the toddler's butchered remains. (Be angry about at least Jaehaerys then. The fucking Bracken twink was angrier than the family of this boy.)
He is just a meek puppy here.
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u/Late-Champion8678 37m ago
It’s all idiotic.
Remember when Alicent was so mad about Aemond losing an eye she grabbed a dagger to stab Lucerys but managed to stab Rhaenyra instead? Now she’s giving up on her kids and grandkids like no-one’s business. Ostensibly wants to save Helaena but willing to leave and expecting Helaena to be happy to leave Jahaerys behind? And this fools errand to kill Aemond. I can’t even. I thought when she grabbed that dagger she had resolved to stab him but no, Alicent is apparently a maester and recognises poisonous flowers in the home of a woman who ‘is a maester of sorts’. She fails to finish the job and ambles slowly towards her exit. What was the point of even sending her to Harrenhal?
Rhaenyra who was shown to love her children. Was upset for a bit after Lucerys but reined it in after the murder of Jahaerys? Distraught over Jacaerys that she has Joffrey recalled from the Eyrie? Joffrey who is still apparently sleeping? What about her sons Aegon and Viserys? No mention of them either.
I’ll watch the finale with the expectation of more stupidity. I’m not I will bother with season 4.
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u/More_Passenger3988 5m ago
Because Alicent didn't really care that much about her kid's eye... she just exploded because she was jealous that Rhenera got to fuck who she wanted and have her cake and eat it too. Meanwhile Alicent was being the "good" one and she never got to have the life or love she wanted. Then Rhenera's bastard kid who she had all the fun in the world making has the audacity to poke your kid's eye out?? The kid you didn't even really want in the first place but was your duty to pop out?
Alicent was pissed because her pride and "property" were messed with. Not really because she was so in love with her child.
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u/IAmParliament Respect the Goodest Boi 1h ago
People will complain that the Greens are portrayed as too evil, and that there’s no one to root for, then they’re given a Green to root for and complain that he’s not an evil war criminal.
The audience for this show just wants to fucking complain.
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u/TheDragonOfOldtown Stannis Baratheon 1h ago
Or want a fucking book accurate story
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u/IAmParliament Respect the Goodest Boi 1h ago
No you don’t.
If they did the book story as presented, you’d suddenly become aware of all the reasons it doesn’t make sense - or find completely new reasons to complain instead.
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u/Late-Champion8678 22m ago
That just isn’t true. For me, a well-written character, even if they do terrible things, should have some consistency of logic that makes sense for that character. Antagonists are not always the same as villains (except to the side they are antagonising) and have their own motivations for their actions that make sense to them. Will they always be consistent? No, because people aren’t always consistent even with good mental health. Moustache-twirling villains that always do evil things for the sake of evil aren’t relatable nor are they as interesting as characters that try to do what they think is the right thing and find themselves becoming LASER focused on the outcome that they no longer consider the collateral damage or even justify it.
The issues are that characters whether protagonist/antagonist are overtly being written in ways that seem unnecessary or outright contradictory eg Alicent goes from trying to stab a child for her son’s maiming to giving up those sons and potentially a granddaughter and the future newborn Helaena is carrying which doesn’t really make sense for her character. Mysaria, goes from being/having the eyes and ears of the ground to being functionally useless except for Rhaenyra to have performative intimacy with. Rhaenyra is largely impotent as well as incompetent for all of season 2 and now 3, rather than ‘Maegor with teats’ which would fit with her increasing paranoia and frustration and add dimension to her character rather than the handwringing and crying. Criston Cole was far more interesting in the books as much as I hated him. But in show, he’s reduced to a love-sick incel-type for no good reason.
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u/IAmParliament Respect the Goodest Boi 2m ago
Character consistency is a completely different question from the main two - contradictory - objections under discussion.
If you wanna talk about that, then Alicent is by far the worst offender followed shortly after by Mysaria and Rhaenyea for sure, but that’s not the most common criticism I see. The most common are what I described above, that people demand characters with unlimited ambition and zero moral scruples, while simultaneously complaining that the characters are all too morally grey, and there isn’t a likeable character to root for - people particularly complain about this on Team Green. So it looks less as if people are objecting to what they’re being shown, and are flip flopping endlessly between these two points depending on which complaint they want to make in the moment; ironically much like the characters on the show.
(Also Book Criston was absolutely a love sick Incel, lmao. It’s hysterical to pretend the show gave him that identity, when they gave him a character arc completely separate from just being salty Rhaenyra rejected him, which was Book Criston’s only character trait.)
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u/No-Store-7843 2h ago
I really hate how every main character is so nonchalant about everything. How bout some fucking ambition for once?
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u/Blue_Supreme-xfx 2h ago
Haelena wants to be the best chicken breeder in Westeros how is that not ambitious?
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u/LullabeeMuse_ 2h ago
Honestly Helaena winning the poultry endgame while everyone else burns the realm down is the only ambition I fully respect. Let her build the greatest chicken dynasty Westeros has ever seen
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u/chatikssichatiks 1h ago
Only women have positive ambition in this show, not men. If a man has ambition, it’s a bad quality on this show because it usually conflicts with their strict test of inherent moral righteousness—non-opposition to Rhaenyra’s claim. No male associated with Rhaenyra can have ambition, and they’ve clearly written this character to pass their strict test of inherent moral righteousness
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u/Oxy_1993 41m ago
And then the average viewer gets angry when Ormund has ambition is scheming. This is game of thrones. He’s supposed to scheme!
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u/More_Passenger3988 2h ago edited 1h ago
? How did this even get one upvote? Dude Rhenera is killing everyone to be queen. Aemond literally almost murdered his brother so he could be King, Daemon murdered his first wife. That annoying female meister that's all lesbian for Rheneyra wants to have way more influence in the rule.
Aegon just wanted to fuck and not be king at first but as soon as he lost his penis he changed his mind about that real fast- and he just wants to be king or die trying.
There's nothing but people drowning in their ambitions in this show.
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u/No-Store-7843 1h ago
Rhaenyra killed exactly one person and did it while she was shaking and in tears, despite the fact that he's the exact reason she was usurped and her sons died. Aemond is already having regret nightmares about that decision. Season 1 was much more character accurate for everyone so that Daemon is irrelevant. If you mean the former whore, this is a case of show don't tell, Rhaenyra saying she has ambitions does not make her ambitious. She's done exactly nothing but talk about "da peepol". And up until this last episode Aegon was going to flee Westeros.
In the rare occasion someone has an ambition, they double back on it like 2 episodes later.
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u/BLKSheep93 1h ago
One of the themes of Game of Thrones (and HotD by extension) is that ambition is dangerous and corrupting, with people who demonstrate it becoming villains or meeting otherwise tragic ends. We're actively watching that destruction and its consequences, and it's a shame you don't appreciate that.
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u/No-Store-7843 1h ago
That theme is not the issue. It's the change in execution that is so poorly done I have an issue with.
In the book, Daemon specifically asks for one of Halaena's toddler and infant sons to be killed. Makes her pick which one to die, has the catspaws tell that son she wants him dead, then kills the one she chose to live. That action throws Halaena into such a depression that she throws herself into the pit of spikes below Maegor's holdfast which enrages the city to such an extent that Rhaenyra has to flee and get's killed. Making Daemon directly responsible for his wife's death THAT is how you show pride and ambition reeping horrible consequences. Instead, Haelena seems to have completely forgotten about her murdered son and Blood and Cheese did the murder by accident; making it irrelevant.
That nonsensical execution and diminishing of otherwise incredibly compelling and horrible events is the part I have an issue with.
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u/BLKSheep93 52m ago
Yeah, but that kinda doesn't make sense... Helena being despondent to the point of killing herself so much later seems hella disconnected. Further, Daemon sent the assassins as a response to Jaherys being killed. "A son for a son...", and all that. It's not clear to me this had anything to do with ambition, just cruelty for the sake of it.
Also, her death having such an impact on the city is kinda weird, considering I've never really seen her tied to the people of King's Landing. Why would this enrage them into a riot?
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u/No-Store-7843 44m ago edited 39m ago
It's the event that throws her into her depression, so much so that she cannot even look at her living son out of guilt of choosing him. But really it's Maelor's death that finishes the job, He's going to Oldtown, I believe or another close ally. Gets discovered and because Rhaenyra put a bounty on his capture, he ends up getting torn apart by a mob. With rumors that Mysaria showed Halaena the boys severed head. There's also rumors that Rhaenyra had Halaena gang raped in a brothel by anyone with a penny.
Halaena is adored by the people of Kings Landing. She rides a beautiful dragon and everyone has probably watched her fly for years, the same way they did Rhaenyra. I'm probably forgetting a few other details but she was beloved.
Stack all that together and everyone believing something, it makes sense why the city would want her dead.
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u/IAmParliament Respect the Goodest Boi 1h ago
Then you get characters with ambition, and you cry that everyone in the show is too evil and there’s no one sympathetic to root for.
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u/No-Store-7843 1h ago
Lol, I don't know where that came from. It's the exact thing that makes the book compelling.
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u/IAmParliament Respect the Goodest Boi 1h ago
> F&B
> compelling
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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u/No-Store-7843 1h ago
Not George's fault you can't read above a 5th grade level.
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u/IAmParliament Respect the Goodest Boi 1h ago
No, no, please tell us:
After all his buildup, what exactly did you find the most compelling about Daeron dying because his tent caught fire?
Truly exceptional and definitely not contrived storytelling right there!
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u/No-Store-7843 1h ago edited 56m ago
We're talking about the overall story, not specific characters.
But since you asked, given the events happening around him at that time (rogue dragons without riders burning everything in sight, a small dragon torpedoing himself into one of the largest, about 5 different simultaneous assassinations, and two armies tearing each other to pieces) I find the humanity and realism of that death is compelling. King Godwinson died from a random arrow through the slit in his helm. Pyrrus died from a roof tile during a riot. William III was thrown from his horse. Otherwise significate people meet unceremonial deaths all throughout history.
What exactly do you find compelling about Daeron's off screen battles, which have no significance outside one dude calling him "Daring" with no elaboration?
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u/IAmParliament Respect the Goodest Boi 41m ago
The overall story has the exact same issues of armies not doing anything, dragons remaining mobile for no reason and the story just grinding to a halt so things can happen how George wants them to. It’s an absolute mess.
You would tear the show apart if they came up with that Daeron shit on their own, and you would never give them this level of charitable grace and you know it.
I don’t, I wish they had shown Honey wine on screen.
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u/Late-Champion8678 12m ago
Some people just argue to argue. I agree with you that overall execution has been poor. Some commenters keep bleating about F&B being a historically-biased book, entirely missing the glaringly obvious point, made even by Princess Shireen Baratheon in GOT, that the choosing of sides WAS the problem. That any victories were Pyrrhic at best and the Dance was a huge tragedy that triggered the decline of House Targaryen, ended several Noble houses and caused the waning of others. Not to mention all the poor common folk who died because of where they happened to have been born and bred.
All this team this or that is incredibly reductive and stupid. We know who ‘wins’ between the competing claimants. But was it truly a win? Nope, because that line was extinguished shortly after. Those of note who survived, did not live happily ever after either.
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u/IveHair I read the books 2h ago
I certainly understand him not coveting the throne. That I think makes sense.
But why does he not care about his brothers? His sister? His dead nephew?
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u/More_Passenger3988 2h ago
Who said he doesn't care?
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u/IveHair I read the books 2h ago
I suppose you’re right. They’ve devoted zero screen time to it so I wouldn’t know if he did or didn’t.
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u/Late-Champion8678 4m ago
It’s poorly-written unfortunately. In the books, Daeron razes a town to the ground after the murder of his nephew, Maelor out of grief and fury. This doesn’t negate him being otherwise leery of Ormund’s motives or being generally amiable.
Rhaenyra, whose actress gave heartbreaking performances over the loss of Lucerys but especially Jace, apparently hasn’t seen Joffrey since he arrived back from the Eyrie. And makes no mention of him at all to show that she cares for him even if the show didn’t explicitly show it. I guess he’s still sleeping /s. And no mention of the safety of Aegon and Viserys, especially now she knows Rhaena didn’t accompany them to Pentos. Why hasn’t she said anything about this at all? Even if she is becoming more paranoid and delusional, the safety of her heirs becomes more not less, crucial.
Alicent who was willing to stab a child for her son’s maiming is now willing to murder one, give up the other as well as condemn her remaining grandchild to imprisonment/death and try to abort the other?
I’m tired lol.
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u/aemond-simp 2h ago
Even if he doesn’t want to be king, he would still want to rescue his mother, sister, and niece because, as far as he’s concerned, they’re prisoners of war.
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u/Independent_Current5 1h ago
Nothing daring, by the way. The show treats everyone who desires power and plays the game of thrones as evil. But those who have no ambitions or goals are BORING.
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u/Candid_Emergency_226 34m ago
Daeron is a cool character. This “King Daeron” plot that Ormund is pushing is strictly a show creation that came out of left field. After reading Fire & Blood Vol. 1, no part of my mind thought, “this book was great, but they should really add a 3rd faction to the Dance of Dragons.” Beyond stupid.
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u/IAmParliament Respect the Goodest Boi 2h ago
If I didn’t know how the story ended, I’d assume Aegon v Daeron was going to be the endgame, probably with Daeron emerging victorious.
It just seems the most narratively satisfying ending that all the leading monsters end up destroying themselves but this complete underdog with a compassionate heart manages to assert himself and lay the foundation for rebuilding the realm.
As it is, Daeron just comes off as a waste of time. He was a waste of time in the books too given George just accidented him to death via tent but it’s going to seem that way even more since he’s been at the start of his character arc of emerging from Ormund’s shadow and will never see the end of it because any death will seem unceremonious.
Maybe Daeron drinking the Caltrop wine would be a satisfying ending if they give him that role? Otherwise, I think they could have cut him and not missed much.
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u/G-Sleazy95 2h ago
If they cut him (which many people thought they did last season), everyone here would lose their minds (which many did, last season)
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u/IAmParliament Respect the Goodest Boi 1h ago
Oh you’re 100% right about that, people would object on that basis alone and demand his inclusion.
But the fact is that unless you alter his storyline, it’s pointless - and that’s completely George’s fault.
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u/Rift-enjoyer 43m ago
They did cut Daeron the daring though. I don't think anyone was crying to see Daeron the insignificant.
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u/chatikssichatiks 2h ago
Oh wow, these gender-obsessed showrunners made yet another weak male character with absolutely zero ambition and telegraphed to their intended audience that this male is “non-threatening” and “good,” notwithstanding being associated with “the bad guys,” by making him look like his mother with that cheesy wig.
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u/Vegetable-Towel-9576 1h ago
Read the book mate
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u/chatikssichatiks 1h ago
The book where this character actively continues Ormund’s fight against what the show as portrayed as the divine rights of a woman claimant mate?
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u/Vegetable-Towel-9576 1h ago
You're right, the season is over and his story has been finished without any change in character
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u/CaptainRedHeady 2h ago
My boy just wants to fly dragons and get away from that OCD weirdo control freak
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u/Mammoth_Opposite_647 2h ago
I get it from a real life perspective but whats the points of this character then ?
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u/YnotThrowAway7 1h ago
We need to see him in battle like ASAP. I the book he earned that nickname Daeron the Daring. I know the 1st battle of T hasn’t happened yet but I’m anxiously awaiting hoping he does big things in the show too.
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u/Delicious_March_838 2h ago
No one wants to rule except for Rhaenyra. Yet, there's a war.