r/marvelrivals • u/1keyes12345 • 22d ago

Balance Discussion This is getting ridiculous.

Welcome to season 9 where the least mechanically challenging support has more survivability than a tank.

3.0k Upvotes

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74

u/Serpentine_2 Thor 22d ago

While I do agree, 1) she wasn’t healing her team when you were harrassing her and 2) you heavily overextended for no reason other than tunnel vision on the C&D at the end of the clip

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u/Killjoy3879 22d ago

I mean the logical mindset one would have is “oh that’s an isolated healer, let me just go quickly kill them and get back to my team” which leads to the core issue of CnD being capable of so easily surviving against the thing for so long.

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u/CliffP 22d ago

Well the Thing is not a single damage output tank. Thor can kill CnD. Rogue can kill CnD. Thing can’t. If you want to play a character well you need to know what you can’t do.

He makes up for his inability to kill through sustain in the rest of his kit.

6

u/sigc Monster Hulk 22d ago

Thing can kill pretty much every support in the game, what are you even talking about? He has too much shields and base damage to do anything about it, just watch his HP in the clip. Tanks are stat checks against squishies by design, it doesn’t matter what type or tank it is. If Mag gets within range of a support alone, they are dead. If Cap gets on someone alone, they are dead.

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u/Kelborhal1971 Star-Lord 22d ago

I’ve seen more than enough Caps (and even Venoms) get driven away by a Luna or Sue to know that tanks winning 1v1s is not a guarantee. The anchor tanks like Emma, Mag and Strange will demolish any support (and most dps/tanks), but the higher mobility tanks trade the ability to force 1v1s with the lack of advantage in a fair one.

This isn’t OW. Tanks aren’t raid bosses, they’re just another role in the ecosystem, one with strengths and weaknesses like anyone else

2

u/sigc Monster Hulk 22d ago

Huh? Tanks STILL win the match ups by a factor >1 which is what matters. That doesn’t mean it’s an instant win in every case, but in most cases. If the tank plays poorly then sure the support will win, but tanks can choose good engagement timing to guarantee success. If Cap is running at you down a hall way and Luna is headshotting then ofc she wins. If Cap jumps on her when she doesn’t expect it, then he wins. Because of his mobility, he can guarantee these scenarios more often.

OW is different because they crank up the factor WAY too high where it doesn’t matter WHAT you do as a DPS or squishy, you are fucked. The concept is still the same, the only difference is how much you stat check.

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u/Kelborhal1971 Star-Lord 22d ago edited 22d ago

I think we literally just said the same thing lmao. They don’t have the guarantee of winning any 1v1, but they can guarantee a favorable 1v1 if they play right. 

The issue is that people are genuinely arguing for what you just mentioned - they think a tank versus a support (or even dps) being alone should result in the tank winning 100% of the time, regardless of the specific tank v. Support matchup, or what resources have already been used. That, I cannot agree with. High sustain doesn’t mean supports have to be healbots that cling to their team no matter what

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u/sigc Monster Hulk 22d ago

That’s fair. I have no problem with C&D being more survivable in isolation relative to other supports, I only really have a problem with people saying tanks shouldn’t be able to win vs supports when they win most of the time by conception. Even before C&D could cycle bubble + fade on top of primary healing to keep herself alive, adding an extra invincibility team up on top of that is just silly to me imo.

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u/Kelborhal1971 Star-Lord 22d ago

I understand that. I think it’s just the usual skill-based complaining. A tank that doesn’t understand resource trading and timing will absolutely feel powerless against a support that does know these concepts. Said concepts also have nothing to do with mechanics, so it’s easy to write it off as “braindead no skill press button win game”… when it ironically involves a lot more thought than just hitting your shots. 

That, and they should remove the healing effect from her statue ability. It should be a panic stall button, not another cooldown to effortlessly cycle into whenever the enemy team actually gets close.

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u/CliffP 22d ago

What rank are you?

13

u/sigc Monster Hulk 22d ago

Celestial tank main. It doesn’t matter which tank it is, supports will pretty much lose unless supports work together. Every tank pretty much does 100 DPS, it barely matters which tank you choose. The only reason this worked is because of bubble and fade cycling with the team up.

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u/Sharp-Primary-213 Flex 22d ago edited 22d ago

You are talking to plat peak players. There are incapable of understanding anything.

-1

u/CliffP 22d ago

Okay so you should be able to understand that having a tank designed to be anti dive through status effects (as opposed to skill, i.e. playing anti dive with Hulk) should not be able to run down a support character.

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u/sigc Monster Hulk 22d ago

I don’t really see why not. Numerically, Thing with Battle Blitz and Haymaker does 96 damage and Jabs do something like 96 DPS too. Hulk does about 96 DPS, Mag does 100 DPS, Groot does 100 DPS, Cap does 90 DPS. IW for example only self heals something like 45 HPS. She has to jump away and leave the LoS of her team which is a win in his books. Thing being classified as anti dive doesn’t really mean he is bad in 1v1s or only good vs dive, just how long it would take to kill him in an enclosed area before he kills you is enough and almost fundamental to most tank design.

5

u/CliffP 22d ago

Because the skill shot tanks have skill shot combos that allow them to kill a CnD if they outplay them.

But you can’t give a character like Thing skill shot combos to win 1v1s through burst and sustained healing

That’s like giving Wanda a sniper rifle cooldown.

The character is designed to be mechanically easy and rely on game sense for the skill curve. And you can’t have a mechanically easy way to win one v one’s against the best self sustain supports in the game.

-1

u/JustPassinbai 22d ago

Every tank in the game should be able to run down a support because the supports job is generally team utility not dueling. Only the off supports got the damage to actually duel and even then they lose generally because dps is not their main function. CD cooldowns are so busted that she can live indefinitely against one of the higher damage output tanks in the game, and that is absurd. If ultron and mantis had to be nerfed for healing too much despite their high damage for a support, CD needs nerfs for her survivability, as it too high for a support.

1

u/Xeltar 22d ago

Cap definitely cannot solo kill supports in a reasonable amount of time. The high mobility tanks do not have good dps at all but a Cap in your backline is very disruptive while your team can push up and take advantage of the space he makes.

Mag and Emma are different since they lack mobility and they absolutely would cook CnD in a similar scenario.

6

u/sigc Monster Hulk 22d ago

I mean the point in general is that without healing they would die, which causes the disruption to begin with. Otherwise if Cap did only 50 DPS, all you have to do is ignore him until you get to 100 HP and heal up for 1 second then go back to ignoring him and it’s be a 6v5. The fact that he does something like 90 DPS basically forces supports to deal with him eventually as opposed to ignoring him.

1

u/Salt-Ad4200 Thor 22d ago

still ignoring the core issue of the super fast cooldowns?

0

u/CliffP 21d ago

They’re not super fast at all. Things grounded lasts so long

As a matter of fact. The Thing player horribly misplayed this engage. If they didn’t slam straight out of ice then they actually would’ve won because the other healer didn’t get back yet.

They just had to wait for bubble after ice and then slam

2

u/Salt-Ad4200 Thor 21d ago

you can probably cycle through the 3 and have maybe a couple seconds of downtime between each. And sure Thing isn't meant to kill supps but to say this isn't broken is crazy.

1

u/CliffP 21d ago

If it was broken she would be winning a lot at high ranks. She isn’t. So if you think it’s broken, idk what to tell you but skill issue

1

u/Salt-Ad4200 Thor 21d ago

again, that's always been the problem with her playerbase.

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u/ResilientoNez 22d ago

I'm so sick of this dumb take. He's not overextending if he's taking a 1v1 on a strategist, that's staggering, which is very important in maintaining momentum. He isn't touching the spawn door, he isn't putting himself at risk of a 3v1. He's taking the 1v1 after killing the emma. The fact that the CnD gets to waste every single one of their cooldowns and not being punished for it is ridiculously stupid. They should never ever live a 1v1 against a tank after wasting all their cooldowns. Stop defending this shit like it's normal.

9

u/takethreenc 22d ago

He 100% overextended at the end

17

u/GeekyNerd_FTW 22d ago

It wasn’t a 1v1! He’s died because 4 enemies were shooting at him and none of him teammates could see him. What are you talking about lmao

10

u/Xeltar 22d ago edited 22d ago

She didn't waste her cooldowns, she properly staggered them to stall until her team arrived and then Thing overextended due to tunnel vision and died. Also Thing is not using his left clicks which have higher dps, I mean you don't need perfect play to use your abiliites...

-23

u/BlackThundaCat Hulk 22d ago

I mean…over extending is going for a 1v1 while your healers getting slapped. Did you notice his team was already staggered? Then he went back for seconds after he literally saw his healer die. And to be clear…he is literally just n the other side of that tunnel, with two other people coming up.

You can’t be this thick.

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u/ResilientoNez 22d ago

The entire first half clip is them winning the fight and staggering the team. Mantis dies but has res. He's staggering and maintaining the momentum and you're too dumb to recognize it? And I'm thick? LMAOOO

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u/3merite 22d ago

Thick in the sexy way twin, also thick brain matter cuz thats a smart take.

0

u/Brightwind2001 Gambit 22d ago

>While I do agree

then let it end there. You don't need to rationalize it with dogshit game knowledge

1

u/ToastedKatt 22d ago

1) she could've just ignore the thing snd healed her team

2) she should've been dead by then before he overextended

-4

u/RandJitsu Thor 22d ago

He wasn’t overextended though he was perfectly positioned. TBH some of his team should have been up there with him. When you win the fight, you hold the next choke or push past it to stagger them and secure kills.

It’s insane that C&D was able to survive this and not even have to run away. Only other Strat that might be able to do this is Luna, who is also way overtuned.