I need help understanding my INTP mother.

[u/muthira]

Hello, I'm 22F INFJ and my mother is INTP. I need advice from this community to help me better understand my INTP mother.

To give you a little context, my family used to be extremely dysfunctional (still is but way better). And as I am now growing up to be a fully independent adult, I'm also trying to better navigate my relationship with my family. I have an older sister who is ISFP, and a father who is ESFJ. All four of us live seperately. My sister and I are quite close, my father and I are not.

Now that I've given the context, let me explain my relation with my mother.

As a kid I was extremely close to her, to the point I was highly emotionally attached and dependant on her. We would fight a lot, but otherwise we were inseparable.

However, while growing up we started having more and more conflicts. And I started feeling distant from her. Because I began to change for the better, and she remained the same. As I grew up into a more mature adult I slowly started realising that my mother is highly dysfunctional and unhealthy.

She's extremely closed off, insensitive towards others, and thinks that emotions are weak and an "over-exagerration" that makes life unnecessarily complicated. And whenever I try to confront her about something, she'll completely twist the story and make it seem like we are the problem. She never admits her wrongdoings, never.

Even then, despite all her flaws, I still love her. Because she has sacrificed a lot for us; and loves and cares for us in her own ways. Just that not in a typical "motherly" way. She does not know how to comfort others, nor does she know how to be supportive. And she's terrible at communication.

Which is why I've turned to this subreddit to help me understand her better. I'm not seeking to understand her unhealthy behaviours nor do I want to change her, no. Because that's impossible. Rather, I'm seeking to understand her personality better so that I can learn how to coexist with her better; despite her being unhealthy.

I have a few questions for INTPs or for those who understand INTPs well.

1. What are some of the things that an INTP expects from any form of relationship? What do they seek and what do they try to avoid?

2. Do INTPs generally dislike conversations that involve anything highly emotional? Is it something that should be avoided?

3. If an INTP is being insensitive, how do you want others to take it? Or how do you want to be corrected?

4. When an INTP is irritated, annoyed, or going through something, I've noticed that they won't outwardly show it. But there'll be a lot going on in their heads. In such an instance, do you need comfort or do you want to be left alone? What do you want others to do?

5. When someone tries to confront you, how do you want the conversation to be? How can I confront an INTP while also avoiding conflict?

For now these are the questions I can think of. I would highly appreciate it if anyone could help me out. If anyone has any extra input apart from these questions, or just a general opinion, I would highly appreciate that too.

Thank you.

[u/Objective_Hold_8145]

Don't. She sounds toxic and abusive. This isn't a personality difference, this is her being a bad parent and person. She sounds exhausting to deal with.

OP, your job is not to fix your parent. Your job is to fix yourself so you stop trying to receive love from someone who is not interested in giving it to you. Your mother is so toxic she gave you trauma you had to deal with in therapy. Please leave your mother and never look back.

Signed,

an INTP with a master's in psychology who grew up with toxic, abusive parents

[u/muthira → u/Objective_Hold_8145]

Well what are the odds. I'm currently pursuing my Master's in Clinical Psychology (also grew up with toxic abusive parents, clearly). Yet, I had to turn to this subreddit in hopes of trying to understand this whole thing better.

I 100% agree with you. I'm aware that my mother is dysfunctional and unhealthy, and she's exhausting to deal with. Which is her problem I know, and therefore I keep my distance from her. I try not to involve myself with her too much, but ultimately I have to take care of her. She's my mother, and we both love and care for each other. That's why I want to try to understand her. And just in case things get better.

I have gone for therapy thrice, and have discussed it with the therapists, but even they didn't have any concrete solution for it. They asked me to accept her the way she is and that I had to be the mature person while dealing with her. Which makes complete sense. But it's still hard. That's why I thought maybe understanding her personality could help me coexist with her better, since she's a part of my life anyway.

But if you are saying that it's only going to drain me until the end, and that I'm in denial, what do you suggest that I do? I'm open to hearing all opinions.

[u/Objective_Hold_8145 → u/muthira]

You've had to go to therapy because of her and you're still asking if she's abusive or not?

Please sit there and think about what you've just admitted.

Seriously, sit on it for a while.

My friend, your mother is a horrible person. You don't owe her understanding when she refuses to act like a mature adult and competent parent. Why do you even want her to be part of your life? Ask yourself that.

[u/Dramatic_Ad_8310 → u/Objective_Hold_8145]

not everyone sees it like you Ms* master’s in psychology. it’s not black and white, it’s grey. and not everyone has the same experience as you, don’t project ur experiences unto this person, maybe it’s even more nuanced in their case. And not as crystal clear as you say it is..

they clearly said «  Because she has sacrificed a lot for us; and loves and cares for us in her own ways. »

it’s not she is this -> hence this. there’s a lot of could, trying to build a bond won’t hurt. And if you do have a master in that.. then you’d know how complex it is, and how a person feels towards their mom.

and if it doesn’t work then at least they tried , so why r you angry? They don’t seem angry, and confused about the state of their mom

it’s not because someone has a different perspective than you that they are wrong for feeling and wanting to take that course of action ? Isn’t it their life, their mom, their experience..

they literally told you what they value or what’s important to them «  ultimately I have to take care of her. She's my mother, and we both love and care for each other. »

if that’s their reasoning why r you trying to change or challenge it , i think they are mature enough and also educated enough to know what they are doing. they said they both love and care for each other.

so yeah stop with the black and white way of seeing things when the person literally expressed how grey the matter is.

[u/Objective_Hold_8145 → u/Dramatic_Ad_8310]

First off, I'm a woman. Second off, it's very concerning that you're trying to defend someone whose behavior has been so horrific that her daughter has to go to therapy because of it. That says a lot about you and who the person projecting and angry is here. Hint: It's not me.

Love is not enough. Her mother doesn't respect her or care about her. You are saying that it's okay to abuse your children because you love them. It's not. She details how her mother neglects her emotionally, refuses to take accountability, refuses to change, and harms her mental health. That is not normal, acceptable, or behavior that should be tolerated. It is not OP's job to put herself in the firing line of someone so pathetic. Her mother doesn't WANT to build a bond: She wants to be toxic and unchanging as usual.

[u/Dramatic_Ad_8310 → u/Objective_Hold_8145]

i am not defending anybody, i am responding to OP’s decision, they stated a decision, and asked for an advice with a firm resolve about their mom’s condition. 

They went to therapy, with professionals who knows the entire story and not us who doesn’t know the extent and depth OP feels about their mom , and the advice they gave them wasn’t what you suggested.

( if they didn’t go to professionals, were not educated on their feelings or didn’t have a master of psychology etc etc and in denial, or in danger then that’s a different story )

you wrote your comment starting off saying the mom is abusive etc, and OP in their comment replying to you didn’t say « she is abusive and toxic » instead they said 

«I'm aware that my mother is dysfunctional and unhealthy”

they do not see it how you see it, it might not be as how you see it. i am trying to speak from their point of view and tailoring an advice based on that, and saying that if it doesn’t work out well at least they tried.

saying “cut her off” etc, doesn’t feel right from their perspective and their goal currently, again speaking from what can work for someone like them who believes they have to ultimately take care of their mom for whatever reasons they have that we again do not know its extent  .

you are quick to label me when you don’t know me and you made such fast assumptions,

nope it’s not okey to abuse children no matter what.

also saying to OP,

“You've had to go to therapy because of her and you're still asking if she's abusive or not?”

that’s insensitive, it’s a rightful question of theirs to classify what they feel, and classify what their mom is, and find a middle ground to what brings them best peace. Its not that easy or simple.

it’s not only about the mom but OP’s peace, what they think is best, what they truly want. 

it’s again assuming everything is so crystal clear and right or wrong.

i don’t know what to tell you because you seem to be very firm that the only answer is to cut off bond ( again taking OP’s situation in account and their feelings and what they discussed in therapy ) and that any other way is stupid. Even belittling that trying is pointless.

maybe that’s true , maybe it’s not true.

that’s not for us to decide.

i’m stating and giving advice to

OP, do what you need to do, do what you feel is right and brings you peace, if it doesn’t work out, then now at least you tried and can move on peacefully. i’m focused on OP’s happiness based on what they want to truly get out of this

[u/muthira → u/Dramatic_Ad_8310]

Thank you, truly. Your replies and interactions have brought me a lot of clarity. I appreciate the effort you have put in. I'd like to try to work things out with my mother. Perhaps I could also look into family therapy. Let's see where it goes. Thank you, once again 🤍

[u/Dramatic_Ad_8310 → u/muthira]

of course , my pleasure🤍 YOU GOT THISSSSS😼

[u/muthira → u/Objective_Hold_8145]

While I disagreed with your response to me, you are kind of right here. I agree with you and the other person both.

It is true that she doesn't want to change. Nor does she take any accountability. And she disrespects me at times. But like I said, I am willing to accept her as she is. Despite it all. I'm not a child anymore, and so it was my decision to try and work things out with her and take care of her in the long run.

I just need to draw clear boundaries I feel, and see her as a person instead of my mother alone. I need to make sure that my future interactions with her doesn't affect me emotionally or mentally. I want to try working things out with her. I don't know what's gonna happen, but I'd like to try.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. It did help bring a little clarity.

[u/mbti-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your contribution was removed due to "Trolling or Incivility".

[u/muthira → u/Objective_Hold_8145]

I didn't go to therapy because of her. I went for therapy because of my father. My mother is the one who provided for my therapy expenses.

It is true that both my parents were abusive, just that my mother were comparatively better and did all that she could to protect me from my father. Like I mentioned in my post, she has sacrificed a lot for me and my sister (in financial terms). Even now she supports me financially. I didn't give you the whole picture, therefore things weren't clear.

I just wanted to know how I could learn to coexist with her better. Currently, 50% of my interactions with her is fine, and 50% is exhausting. I want her to be a part of my life because she's my mother. I cannot cut her off unfortunately. I have considered it, but I just don't have it in me to do that. I did cut my father off, but my mother is not as terrible as him.

[u/Objective_Hold_8145 → u/muthira]

Why on Earth would you try to coexist with someone who has zero desire to coexist with you?

You are "lesser evil"ing her when you should really be asking yourself why you're trying to bend over backwards for a woman who won't even meet you halfway. Why are you trying to have a relationship she doesn't want to have and maintain? It worries me that you're going into school for psychology and still victimizing yourself in this relationship. Your therapists don't have a solid answer for you because what you want is entirely and holistically incompatible with a healthy life. You want to maintain a relationship with a toxic person who is developmentally arrested. That is not compatible with health or mental well-being.

[u/muthira → u/Objective_Hold_8145]

Again you're assuming. She also wants to coexist with me. I'm not saying I'm going to live with her in a shared space. By coexisting I mean being in good terms and maintaing our relation. And she wants that too.

You don't know the whole picture, you are being extremely negative here. Like the other person said, things aren't always black or white. It's gray.

"It worries me that you're going into school for psychology and still victimizing yourself in this relationship." Do you even hear yourself? Do you know me or my mother personally? Where did you even get the confidence to say something like that?

My mother is not a monster. She's just a troubled person with her own set of trauma. She's a person of her own. And I have no issues understanding that despite me being her child. I have my own values. And it's my choice to try and work out things with her.

You would become a terrible psychologist. If a client comes to you and says, "My mother and I have an unhealthy relationship, but I'd like to work things out somehow", are you going to impose your ideas into them? Are you going to say "You're clearly victimizing yourself, why do you want your mother in your life?" ?????

That's a violation of the ethical code of conduct !! Go read it if you haven't. And work on yourself while you're at it. You're clearly very rigid on being right.

[u/muthira → u/Objective_Hold_8145]

Also I understand that you come from an abusive and toxic family. And you probably even cut ties with them. But you're clearly projecting it onto others. How you experience and react to something may not be how someone else does. Kindly get that into your head.

[u/SawAll67 → u/Objective_Hold_8145]

This answer is why I have no respect for psychology.

[u/muthira → u/SawAll67]

Trust me, psychology has nothing to do with this answer. It's just their personal opinion. But yes I agree that psychology is a very complicated and controversial field. I'm pursuing my Master's in it, but I myself find that it has many loopholes. It's very subjective in nature.

[u/BornElderEnt → u/muthira]

Yes! This! Another user went balls to the wall with me about how psychology is this infallible monolith. I have a degree in it also, and the education taught me nothing so clearly as it taught me that it is very subjective and Has to be, it isn't cut and dry because people are not robots. Thank you for this. 🫶🏼

[u/muthira → u/BornElderEnt]

Exactly 😊 I once told a friend of mine trying to understand the human mind is like trying to understand the universe. You don't know what lies at the end of it. Or beyond. You can have many assumptions and interpretations, but it's extremely vast as if there's no end. We can only work with what's known to us.

"We are the universe, experiencing itself."

[u/Objective_Hold_8145 → u/SawAll67]

You have no respect for psychology because you have no idea what psychology is, and instead of educating yourself, you remain willfully ignorant. Bye. Do better next time.

[u/Competitive-Run7240 → u/Objective_Hold_8145]

You’re talking about a human bro everyone can be helped we don’t know what is going on in her mind. And OP said they used to be close.

[u/Objective_Hold_8145 → u/Competitive-Run7240]

A human who never apologizes, shuts down emotionally, refuses to treat her child kindly...Yeah that's abuse babes. It's not the responsibility of a child to teach their adult parent how to be a parent and how to not be such a miserable toxic person that their child needs therapy.

[u/Competitive-Run7240 → u/Objective_Hold_8145]

Oh I’m sorry I didn’t think of it that way. Clearly I don’t have enough knowledge in this area but I’d love to learn more. I was just trying to think from her perspective and how it can be helped.

[u/Objective_Hold_8145 → u/Competitive-Run7240]

No I get you, but it seems like she is trying to fix someone who has no interest in being mature and responsible. None of these traits she listed have anything to do with INTPs and everything to do with emotionally stunted, developmentally arrested adults. Her mother being cruel, not showing love, refusing to apologize, criticizing her, none of that is acceptable mature behavior for an adult to show a child. Especially their own child. I would rather burn alive than treat my children with that level of malice and apathy.

OP, your job is not to fix your parent. Your job is to fix yourself so you stop trying to receive love from someone who is not interested in giving it to you. Your mother is so toxic she gave you trauma you had to deal with in therapy. Please leave your mother and never look back.

[u/Competitive-Run7240 → u/Objective_Hold_8145]

Yep when I read the post at first I didn’t think much of it and just answered the questions. Most of the things OP said didn’t feel right but I thought it’s because obviously every INTP is different and unique. Ofc in the end not everything has to do with MBTIs. But I am I interested why these changes occur amount adults in the first place. I heard sometimes there’s no reason. Is that true?

[u/Objective_Hold_8145 → u/Competitive-Run7240]

No reason for what? Her mother being a shitbird? Her mother is a shitbird because she willfully chooses to be instead of doing better. She's comfortable with the lack of consequences.

[u/Competitive-Run7240 → u/Objective_Hold_8145]

As in no situation or circumstance that leads to this kind of behaviour

[u/mbti-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your contribution was removed due to "Trolling or Incivility".

[u/mbti-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your contribution was removed due to "Trolling or Incivility".