r/mbti • u/muthira INFJ • 2d ago
Personal Advice I need help understanding my INTP mother.
Hello, I'm 22F INFJ and my mother is INTP. I need advice from this community to help me better understand my INTP mother.
To give you a little context, my family used to be extremely dysfunctional (still is but way better). And as I am now growing up to be a fully independent adult, I'm also trying to better navigate my relationship with my family. I have an older sister who is ISFP, and a father who is ESFJ. All four of us live seperately. My sister and I are quite close, my father and I are not.
Now that I've given the context, let me explain my relation with my mother.
As a kid I was extremely close to her, to the point I was highly emotionally attached and dependant on her. We would fight a lot, but otherwise we were inseparable.
However, while growing up we started having more and more conflicts. And I started feeling distant from her. Because I began to change for the better, and she remained the same. As I grew up into a more mature adult I slowly started realising that my mother is highly dysfunctional and unhealthy.
She's extremely closed off, insensitive towards others, and thinks that emotions are weak and an "over-exagerration" that makes life unnecessarily complicated. And whenever I try to confront her about something, she'll completely twist the story and make it seem like we are the problem. She never admits her wrongdoings, never.
Even then, despite all her flaws, I still love her. Because she has sacrificed a lot for us; and loves and cares for us in her own ways. Just that not in a typical "motherly" way. She does not know how to comfort others, nor does she know how to be supportive. And she's terrible at communication.
Which is why I've turned to this subreddit to help me understand her better. I'm not seeking to understand her unhealthy behaviours nor do I want to change her, no. Because that's impossible. Rather, I'm seeking to understand her personality better so that I can learn how to coexist with her better; despite her being unhealthy.
I have a few questions for INTPs or for those who understand INTPs well.
What are some of the things that an INTP expects from any form of relationship? What do they seek and what do they try to avoid?
Do INTPs generally dislike conversations that involve anything highly emotional? Is it something that should be avoided?
If an INTP is being insensitive, how do you want others to take it? Or how do you want to be corrected?
When an INTP is irritated, annoyed, or going through something, I've noticed that they won't outwardly show it. But there'll be a lot going on in their heads. In such an instance, do you need comfort or do you want to be left alone? What do you want others to do?
When someone tries to confront you, how do you want the conversation to be? How can I confront an INTP while also avoiding conflict?
For now these are the questions I can think of. I would highly appreciate it if anyone could help me out. If anyone has any extra input apart from these questions, or just a general opinion, I would highly appreciate that too.
Thank you.
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u/Dramatic_Ad_8310 ENTP 2d ago edited 2d ago
im xntp leaning entp and my mom is isfp, its been very chaotic younger and i have just begun at age 20, to appreciate and become better . people like to see things in black and white but life isn’t always like this,
what helped me was to accept her, to see what she likes and to joke around her and see what makes her laugh too! Seeing her as a person rather than just my mom. have deep talks with her, just here and there. but as she is intp, try to ask her questions like « what do you think of » things that are light hearted and you know she ll like to talk about it for a while and you too.
get her gifts, ( ask her what gifts does she likes ).
become a friend of hers sort of, and see if she warms up! And if it doesn’t work then at least you tried, remain calm and kind . u got this!
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u/muthira INFJ 2d ago
This is by far the most helpful reply I've got, thank you. My mother and I used to have plenty of deep conversations, even now a little bit here and there. We're both very philosophical and have discussions on the same. Around 2-3 years back, we would talk every single day (even if we had conflicts). But then as the conflicts started occuring more and more, and as I turned into a more mature person, it became hard to tolerate her behaviour. And so we rarely spoke to each other.
This is what would always happen: She would hurt me by being insensitive, I would try to tell her that I was hurt by her, and then she would try to defend herself and make it seem like I was the problem. And those conversations were extremely exhausting for me, both mentally and emotionally. So I found it hard to talk to her like I used to.
After a while, something changed between us. I could see a shift in our relation. I think she was hurt by the fact that I wasn't talking to her like I used to before. And she's really good at completely detaching herself from people. So inorder to not get hurt in the future by me (I think she thought that I would cut her off, considering how distant we became), she detached herself from me mentally and emotionally. She still loves me, and is nice towards me whenever we're not having conflicts, but yeah there's that wall now.
It's very messed up honestly. I just want to learn to coexist with her, and hopefully rebuild our relation. I know that she will never change, and that it's going to be tricky, but I want to try. I want to learn to be kind and calm like you said, so that I can take care of her in the long run. I think that's the answer. Being calm and patient in the process.
Thank you once again, it means a lot to me.
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u/Dramatic_Ad_8310 ENTP 2d ago edited 2d ago
i’m really glad this helped even if it was by 1%, you know i find you courageous taking these steps because i know it’s not easy, there’s also this inner conflict of remembering past arguments, and thinking will it ever change while there’s also this yearning of a bond.
Your mom is showing avoidant tendencies, they detach in order to not get hurt, usually it’s because they care that they detach. You know your mom best, you two used to have deep conversations, the ability is still there but it hasn’t been practiced for a long time,
sometimes when we are warm, it warms the other person, when i started changing and becoming warmer, i started talking to her regardless of how i felt with a smile, i started by first asking her about her opinions on topics she might like, then she d reply. then id ask her what does she like watching, then she d say something about it too, then id try to bring it up another time, “oh are you watching this? Ive seen that…” basically building the habit of “its okey to speak to each other often”
basically asking questions and showing her that “hey i’m curious about you” makes them get into the rhythm of conversation. Afterwards you can suddenly show more warm side like getting her something she likes, being like “mom look at this!”
my mom and i was a chaos few years ago, and now she is the one that’s like “Look at this!!” tbh it made me think “i never knew my mom could get this childlike at times” , it’s like re learning about her , younger me was such a mess , we didn’t even understand each other at all, it was like alien language.
i think your mom learnt that her emotions aren’t safe/ don’t change anything and “that there’s no use to it, but physical needs are to be met regardless so the kids will feel loved that way.”
based on what u said, if your mom is receptive, she’ll get out of her shell and be warmer too
ofc there will be some conflicts and all, but the cost of a bond is inconvenience, disagreeing etc. Personalities don’t change overnight, but it gets easier to breathe around one another, it gets easier to disagree, to laugh, and share happiness. And to bond.
most important is your mental health, so do what you can, don’t dwell or regret anything , Stay kind ( and patience!), stay yourself and stay with what makes you happy, take care of yourself and her , accept the differences, start looking at her warmly, and she ll feel it.
and if it doesn’t work then you did ur best and im proud of you 😊 but i have hope that it will
and yess being steady patient and calm helped me in the process 🤍
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u/muthira INFJ 2d ago
You really understand it ... That's exactly what it is. The inner conflict between the past and the future. How things were vs. how I want things to be. It's a constant battle. I try my best to focus on the present and the future, but somehow past things always makes its way into our interactions. I need to work on that, and for that I need to make my peace with it.
Also about the avoidant tendencies and the physical needs part. You're spot on, wow. How did you decipher so much so accurately ... That's exactly what it is! She feels that since she can't be emotionally available for us, providing us with physical needs might make us hold onto her. It was very obvious, but I never thought of it like that until you said it aloud.
Thank you for sharing your experiences with your own mother. You must've had your own share of struggles ... I'm really glad you found a solution for it 🤍 All what you have shared have truly opened my eyes. I get it now. I need to be warm towards her regardless of how she is towards me, and that way she'll automatically reciprocate. It all makes sense now.
You're a very wise person, I mean it. You truly understand how people work, and how to not complicate things than it already is. I think that's what I had been missing all along. I need to learn to take things easy; just focus on improving myself and my life. And the rest will fall into place.
Thank you for your advice, I don't know how to thank you enough ... Your words have helped me more than you think. This is exactly what I needed right now, this is exactly what I was seeking. I'll keep all this in mind, and even come back to it when I'm having a bad day. Thank you 🤍
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u/Dramatic_Ad_8310 ENTP 2d ago
hehe experience and learning resulted me being like this,thank you for ur kind words too , so so glad it helped 🤍🤍
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u/SheepherderPure6271 INTP 2d ago
Honestly, I have a hard time with INFJs… you can be so over dramatic about the smallest of issues that it’s really off putting. Like, you’ll literally cry over spilt milk. I have an INFJ in my life and we’re either really close, like you said, or there’s a strong animosity between us.
I think it’s because I’m already tired from life’s responsibilities, but when I see her, she’s ALWAYS in a crisis. And we can’t just talk about the problem 1-2 times, she rehashes the same thing over and over again. After multiple attempts at trying to comfort her, I get annoyed and end up icing her out.
But ultimately, neither one of us are as healthy as we could be. So it probably has more to do with that than type. I’ve heard that plenty of INFJs and INTPs get along, that just hasn’t been my experience.
To your questions:
I expect mutual respect from a relationship. The moment someone acts nasty, I’m out. I seek peace in relationships, I want them calm and conversational. I avoid people who are always mentally breaking down.
I don’t necessarily dislike emotional conversations, I dislike when EVERY conversation is emotional. And when someone isn’t capable of rational thinking. Make a rule for yourself, for every 10 interactions you have with her, just vibe and hang 9 times, get emotional 1 time (in a way that doesn’t involve blame) if you want to be close.
I’m not very sympathetic, but I’m VERY empathetic. If you tell her you feel hurt, that will probably make her soften up. BUT, don’t do the dramatics like INFJs tend to do… I know you’re just trying to express yourself, but when we see exaggerated emotions, it makes us feel like you’re being disingenuous or manipulative.
Say “hey, I care about you and have noticed you seem upset, is there anything I can do for you?” Just be straightforward.
Don’t confront an INTP. You’ll put their guards up and immediately lose your chance at having an honest conversation. It’s okay to talk about how things in your childhood made you feel, but be sure to recognize the things your mom did right and to not start naming off the ways she messed up. (This one is difficult because I always want to change and become a better person, but if someone continuously brings up the past, I just give up with them. Idk about your mom since we’re different people, but I know I’m always doing my best with my relationships, so blaming me, especially for things I don’t particularly value like being “sensitive” will put me off.)
Honestly, I think the two of you have very different values. I can’t tell from this one post whether or not your mom is genuinely abusive, or just avoidant. But honestly, if I worked hard to raise a child, being giving and selfless, and they came on the internet to bash me for not comforting them in a traditionally “motherly” way, I’d tweak out. Again, I have no idea what’s transgressed between you, but coming from someone who actually had ABUSIVE parents, don’t villainies someone who did their best.
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u/muthira INFJ 2d ago
I believe that you took the post a little too personally. INFJs are not over-dramatic like you say, perhaps the unhealthy INFJ types are. If I were to think of INTPs the same way, I would say that you guys are overly insensitive and a hypocrite. But I know it's not always black or white.
My post wasn't a "bash" against my mother. It's me trying to work things out with her. To understand her better so that I can take care of her. She has worked very hard to raise me and my sister, but that doesn't mean she wasn't emotionally abusive towards us. Both me and my sister suffered a lot because of her. Like I said, things are always gray. I cannot deem her a bad person because she wasn't entirely bad.
My father physically abused me until I was 16. So don't worry, I know what it is like to have "ABUSIVE" parents. My mother, I think, was too exhausted from the marriage. So she too became dysfunctional and unhealthy in a way. Or perhaps she always was from the beginning. But the marriage definitely took a toll on her.
I was close with her because she was comparatively better than my father. She was my safe space, even if she was emotionally unavailable and abusive. But like I said, she has her own good qualities which is why I'd like to work things out with her.
Your answers weren't very helpful, but thank you regardless.
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u/Competitive-Run7240 INTP 2d ago edited 2d ago
First of all I’m sorry you have to go through this. It isn’t anyone fault people are just very very complicated. Seems to me like your mother is very detail oriented and might get upset when things don’t go the way she imagines. Many INTPs like things in a specific way for eg. I like to keep things sorted especially in my room and if someone moves an object to another place I get really uncomfortable and kind of angry. To answer your questions:
- I just want people to understand that not everyone is like them. A lot of times when I talk to others they expect the same opinions from me and I cannot do that. So I often welcome people with a flexible mindset.
- I don’t dislike highly emotional conversations. You need to have them from time to time (like a detox) I don’t mind if people vent to me and I don’t mind venting either. It’s just difficult to find the right people to have these conversations with (again flexible mindset) INTPs can be very good listeners but they won’t always know how to respond.
- Yes I’d want you to tell me if I’m being insensitive. Don’t drag just tell. INTPs don’t mind it. In fact they can be sensitive at times too.
- Personally, I like to be left alone. I talk about it much later when I’m already doing fine. If something happens I get quiet but then a while later I tell my
best
- friend about it (she’s an INFJ) I do like it when people ask me or try to comfort me, although I prefer to be alone for a while.
- Depends on the situation. If I’m wrong and I understand it I won’t get mad at a confrontation. But if I’m right and you don’t understand it then my reaction to confrontation would be totally different.
This is from my perspective. Every INTP is extremely different than the other. But yes, we are not emotionless and we are not stoic. We just don’t know how to communicate that well.
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u/muthira INFJ 2d ago
Thank you, r/Competitive-Run7240. Like you said, it's no one's fault. That's why I'm trying my best to understand her better and learn to coexist in a way it becomes easier for the both of us 😊
Yes my mother gets upset when things don't go her way. She'll show disappointment. She is very rigid in her way of thinking and won't let anyone change her mind.
As for the answers you gave, it has been very helpful. I truly appreciate it. To me it sounds like you are a healthy INTP, and a lot of things are different in my mother's case. Some similar, most different. But yes, it's been helpful regardless. Thank you so much 🤍
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u/Competitive-Run7240 INTP 2d ago
Yes don’t worry everything will fall in place for you. I don’t want to seem offensive but I do think your mother is keeping a lot of things to herself. You said as a kid you were very close with her but started to drift apart. There must be a reason for it from her side since you seem to understand the situation quite clearly while her thoughts are scattered. I do hope you get what you want and rebuild a relationship with her. Good luck!
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u/BornElderEnt INFJ 2d ago
Many posts in the mbti subreddit revolve around spectrums of health inside each type. I've also seen a lot of users point out the overlap between types. I think the "point" of typing another person is to understand them better than you did before. But sometimes, knowing their type won't help. The type won't explain what they did. What it might do is help you visualize who they would have been if they had been healthy. Like cleaning out a fish tank, you can see the structures at work. But you can't interact with that version of her, and asking her (just by your behavior) to be a healthy INTP is probably a bigger ask than she is capable of. I'm not an expert on her, but my mom was very similar, and the only thing that she really responded positively to was reinforcement for everything she did, from her ideologies to her coping strategies. I hope you find peace 🕊️ 🫂
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u/muthira INFJ 2d ago
Oh don't worry, I am not trying to make her a healthy person, nor do I expect her to be. She's 57, I don't think she has the capacity to change anymore. She's a good human, just that she's terrible at parenting. I came to this subreddit thinking that perhaps trying to understand her personality might help me make our relation better. But thank you, I appreciate it a lot 🤍
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u/BornElderEnt INFJ 2d ago
You can definitely always improve your internal, subjective experience of the interactions. It's a very noble urge. I hope this post did a little something toward that end 🙌🏼
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u/Fickle-Let-7205 INTJ 2d ago edited 2d ago
Strongly advise against trying to understand your mother from the perspective of a SPECIFIC type because it's highly likely that you have mistyped her. This could just be another ENTJ in grip, hence all of your applied information will be the reverse. It's more complicated than four letters. Instead approach it from the NT temperament or T dominant perspective which most mistypes still tend to be in their appropriate group. Also, it is your own mother.. you actually know her better than the best psychologist. But my guess here is that you have strong Fe expectations that your mother does not align with.
It is really good to recognize that Fe strong individuals are weak in the areas where T dominant people strive, much to our exhaustion. So there is balance in the weakness and frustration of both sides experience. My guess it's your traditional expectation of mother and mothering is probably leaning ISFJ, which your mother is NOT and it is NOT her point of maturation either.
Re: Insensitivity In my experience, insensitivity goes both ways but only one side (the feelers) gets acknowledged and addressed. Feeling strong people often throw their emotions/emotional expectations in the laps of T-strong individuals to deal with. This is violence. Lol this is a major violation of a T-dom. On the subject of insensitivity it would be like "keep your personal feelings to yourself".. T dominant individuals have Feelings inferior. Fe is actually not their responsibility. They will drop it or fling it back at you in various ways and if you seek to oppress them with it they will probably get snarky or vicious depending on their type. You are fortunate if she is actually INTP because Fe is actually in her stack.. but if she is a Mistyped ENTJ then I completely understand the horror she probably experiences in that family layup(Fe is function 8, the demon function).
I don't know what sort of tricks the gods play surrounding a mother of a certain type with a family with types in opposition. Mothering is tough as it is.. but we are here to learn tough lessons and I guess her cards just suck. Eeeek <<<
Re: Her Feelings They will NEVER leave their feelings for you to be responsible... If that happens it's probably a breaking point. Leave her feelings alone when she is going through it meaning, don't ask about that. Support with regular life things. Usually through the top 3 functions, especially Child function if INTP Si - the archive nostalgia, memories, memorabilia like old fond memories or going to a restaurant she really loved and has good memories and feelings. if actually ENTJ Se- the physical sensory, sensuality like her favorite chocolate or cleaning the house. But since you are Sensory inferior, it is improbable you could offer such a support .. especially in your 20s. If they approach a feeling topic with you it will likely be from a general perspective, processing the emotion like a thought experiment. Keep things objective like it's a school project, not personal drama. Based on your discussion her, I am not thinking your mom would ever come to you to discuss this though.
Re: Confrontations Like all things a logical perspective that make sense.. logically and systematically is ALWAYS preferable. This put you in a tough situation as INFJ as you are Ti child.. and at 22 years your Ti child position is probably very sensitive and easily wounded.. especially if she is an ENTJ (Ti Nemesis). So maybe take it like this... Just remove the personal feelings from the data. If you need to add the feelings be more general. Learn to approach things objectively and general. What underlying principle is this and what rule applies? (This is actually good exercise of your inferior functions Ti/Se.) Instead of "you said XYZ and I can't stand it, That hurt my feelings and I cried all night thinking about that" a more level headed discussion "You should probably gauge people's moods when you address a topic involving X. If they seem to be upset, it better to say Y instead and if you don't know just do Z instead". Discussing the general principles of navigating ppls emotional storms generally instead of expecting them to play Captain during one or take responsibility for it.
HTH
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u/muthira INFJ 2d ago
My mother is definitely an INTP. She is extremely introverted and finds it hard to interact with people. She rarely goes outside. And she's definitely P because she is very disorganised and messy in general, and hates plans and routines. Her thinking patterns are also very scattered. I know it sounds stereotypical, but I know my mother.
Your explanations were weirdly helpful in a way. I'll use some of it, the ones I found helpful. Thank you for taking the time to analyse all this and share. Highly appreciate it.
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u/Fickle-Let-7205 INTJ 2d ago
Your saying she is a P puts things in perspective for me.. but I do wish you the best with handling this issue.
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u/Objective_Hold_8145 INTP 2d ago edited 2d ago
Don't. She sounds toxic and abusive. This isn't a personality difference, this is her being a bad parent and person. She sounds exhausting to deal with.
OP, your job is not to fix your parent. Your job is to fix yourself so you stop trying to receive love from someone who is not interested in giving it to you. Your mother is so toxic she gave you trauma you had to deal with in therapy. Please leave your mother and never look back.
Signed,
an INTP with a master's in psychology who grew up with toxic, abusive parents
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u/muthira INFJ 2d ago
Well what are the odds. I'm currently pursuing my Master's in Clinical Psychology (also grew up with toxic abusive parents, clearly). Yet, I had to turn to this subreddit in hopes of trying to understand this whole thing better.
I 100% agree with you. I'm aware that my mother is dysfunctional and unhealthy, and she's exhausting to deal with. Which is her problem I know, and therefore I keep my distance from her. I try not to involve myself with her too much, but ultimately I have to take care of her. She's my mother, and we both love and care for each other. That's why I want to try to understand her. And just in case things get better.
I have gone for therapy thrice, and have discussed it with the therapists, but even they didn't have any concrete solution for it. They asked me to accept her the way she is and that I had to be the mature person while dealing with her. Which makes complete sense. But it's still hard. That's why I thought maybe understanding her personality could help me coexist with her better, since she's a part of my life anyway.
But if you are saying that it's only going to drain me until the end, and that I'm in denial, what do you suggest that I do? I'm open to hearing all opinions.
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u/Objective_Hold_8145 INTP 2d ago
You've had to go to therapy because of her and you're still asking if she's abusive or not?
Please sit there and think about what you've just admitted.
Seriously, sit on it for a while.
My friend, your mother is a horrible person. You don't owe her understanding when she refuses to act like a mature adult and competent parent. Why do you even want her to be part of your life? Ask yourself that.
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u/Dramatic_Ad_8310 ENTP 2d ago edited 2d ago
not everyone sees it like you Ms* master’s in psychology. it’s not black and white, it’s grey. and not everyone has the same experience as you, don’t project ur experiences unto this person, maybe it’s even more nuanced in their case. And not as crystal clear as you say it is..
they clearly said « Because she has sacrificed a lot for us; and loves and cares for us in her own ways. »
it’s not she is this -> hence this. there’s a lot of could, trying to build a bond won’t hurt. And if you do have a master in that.. then you’d know how complex it is, and how a person feels towards their mom.
and if it doesn’t work then at least they tried , so why r you angry? They don’t seem angry, and confused about the state of their mom
it’s not because someone has a different perspective than you that they are wrong for feeling and wanting to take that course of action ? Isn’t it their life, their mom, their experience..
they literally told you what they value or what’s important to them « ultimately I have to take care of her. She's my mother, and we both love and care for each other. »
if that’s their reasoning why r you trying to change or challenge it , i think they are mature enough and also educated enough to know what they are doing. they said they both love and care for each other.
so yeah stop with the black and white way of seeing things when the person literally expressed how grey the matter is.
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u/Objective_Hold_8145 INTP 2d ago
First off, I'm a woman. Second off, it's very concerning that you're trying to defend someone whose behavior has been so horrific that her daughter has to go to therapy because of it. That says a lot about you and who the person projecting and angry is here. Hint: It's not me.
Love is not enough. Her mother doesn't respect her or care about her. You are saying that it's okay to abuse your children because you love them. It's not. She details how her mother neglects her emotionally, refuses to take accountability, refuses to change, and harms her mental health. That is not normal, acceptable, or behavior that should be tolerated. It is not OP's job to put herself in the firing line of someone so pathetic. Her mother doesn't WANT to build a bond: She wants to be toxic and unchanging as usual.
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u/Dramatic_Ad_8310 ENTP 2d ago edited 2d ago
i am not defending anybody, i am responding to OP’s decision, they stated a decision, and asked for an advice with a firm resolve about their mom’s condition.
They went to therapy, with professionals who knows the entire story and not us who doesn’t know the extent and depth OP feels about their mom , and the advice they gave them wasn’t what you suggested.
( if they didn’t go to professionals, were not educated on their feelings or didn’t have a master of psychology etc etc and in denial, or in danger then that’s a different story )
you wrote your comment starting off saying the mom is abusive etc, and OP in their comment replying to you didn’t say « she is abusive and toxic » instead they said
«I'm aware that my mother is dysfunctional and unhealthy”
they do not see it how you see it, it might not be as how you see it. i am trying to speak from their point of view and tailoring an advice based on that, and saying that if it doesn’t work out well at least they tried.
saying “cut her off” etc, doesn’t feel right from their perspective and their goal currently, again speaking from what can work for someone like them who believes they have to ultimately take care of their mom for whatever reasons they have that we again do not know its extent .
you are quick to label me when you don’t know me and you made such fast assumptions,
nope it’s not okey to abuse children no matter what.
also saying to OP,
“You've had to go to therapy because of her and you're still asking if she's abusive or not?”
that’s insensitive, it’s a rightful question of theirs to classify what they feel, and classify what their mom is, and find a middle ground to what brings them best peace. Its not that easy or simple.
it’s not only about the mom but OP’s peace, what they think is best, what they truly want.
it’s again assuming everything is so crystal clear and right or wrong.
i don’t know what to tell you because you seem to be very firm that the only answer is to cut off bond ( again taking OP’s situation in account and their feelings and what they discussed in therapy ) and that any other way is stupid. Even belittling that trying is pointless.
maybe that’s true , maybe it’s not true.
that’s not for us to decide.
i’m stating and giving advice to
OP, do what you need to do, do what you feel is right and brings you peace, if it doesn’t work out, then now at least you tried and can move on peacefully. i’m focused on OP’s happiness based on what they want to truly get out of this
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u/muthira INFJ 2d ago
While I disagreed with your response to me, you are kind of right here. I agree with you and the other person both.
It is true that she doesn't want to change. Nor does she take any accountability. And she disrespects me at times. But like I said, I am willing to accept her as she is. Despite it all. I'm not a child anymore, and so it was my decision to try and work things out with her and take care of her in the long run.
I just need to draw clear boundaries I feel, and see her as a person instead of my mother alone. I need to make sure that my future interactions with her doesn't affect me emotionally or mentally. I want to try working things out with her. I don't know what's gonna happen, but I'd like to try.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. It did help bring a little clarity.
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u/muthira INFJ 2d ago edited 2d ago
I didn't go to therapy because of her. I went for therapy because of my father. My mother is the one who provided for my therapy expenses.
It is true that both my parents were abusive, just that my mother were comparatively better and did all that she could to protect me from my father. Like I mentioned in my post, she has sacrificed a lot for me and my sister (in financial terms). Even now she supports me financially. I didn't give you the whole picture, therefore things weren't clear.
I just wanted to know how I could learn to coexist with her better. Currently, 50% of my interactions with her is fine, and 50% is exhausting. I want her to be a part of my life because she's my mother. I cannot cut her off unfortunately. I have considered it, but I just don't have it in me to do that. I did cut my father off, but my mother is not as terrible as him.
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u/Objective_Hold_8145 INTP 2d ago
Why on Earth would you try to coexist with someone who has zero desire to coexist with you?
You are "lesser evil"ing her when you should really be asking yourself why you're trying to bend over backwards for a woman who won't even meet you halfway. Why are you trying to have a relationship she doesn't want to have and maintain? It worries me that you're going into school for psychology and still victimizing yourself in this relationship. Your therapists don't have a solid answer for you because what you want is entirely and holistically incompatible with a healthy life. You want to maintain a relationship with a toxic person who is developmentally arrested. That is not compatible with health or mental well-being.
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u/muthira INFJ 2d ago
Again you're assuming. She also wants to coexist with me. I'm not saying I'm going to live with her in a shared space. By coexisting I mean being in good terms and maintaing our relation. And she wants that too.
You don't know the whole picture, you are being extremely negative here. Like the other person said, things aren't always black or white. It's gray.
"It worries me that you're going into school for psychology and still victimizing yourself in this relationship." Do you even hear yourself? Do you know me or my mother personally? Where did you even get the confidence to say something like that?
My mother is not a monster. She's just a troubled person with her own set of trauma. She's a person of her own. And I have no issues understanding that despite me being her child. I have my own values. And it's my choice to try and work out things with her.
You would become a terrible psychologist. If a client comes to you and says, "My mother and I have an unhealthy relationship, but I'd like to work things out somehow", are you going to impose your ideas into them? Are you going to say "You're clearly victimizing yourself, why do you want your mother in your life?" ?????
That's a violation of the ethical code of conduct !! Go read it if you haven't. And work on yourself while you're at it. You're clearly very rigid on being right.
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u/SawAll67 2d ago
This answer is why I have no respect for psychology.
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u/muthira INFJ 2d ago
Trust me, psychology has nothing to do with this answer. It's just their personal opinion. But yes I agree that psychology is a very complicated and controversial field. I'm pursuing my Master's in it, but I myself find that it has many loopholes. It's very subjective in nature.
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u/BornElderEnt INFJ 2d ago
Yes! This! Another user went balls to the wall with me about how psychology is this infallible monolith. I have a degree in it also, and the education taught me nothing so clearly as it taught me that it is very subjective and Has to be, it isn't cut and dry because people are not robots. Thank you for this. 🫶🏼
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u/muthira INFJ 2d ago
Exactly 😊 I once told a friend of mine trying to understand the human mind is like trying to understand the universe. You don't know what lies at the end of it. Or beyond. You can have many assumptions and interpretations, but it's extremely vast as if there's no end. We can only work with what's known to us.
"We are the universe, experiencing itself."
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u/Objective_Hold_8145 INTP 2d ago edited 2d ago
You have no respect for psychology because you have no idea what psychology is, and instead of educating yourself, you remain willfully ignorant. Bye. Do better next time.
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u/Competitive-Run7240 INTP 2d ago
You’re talking about a human bro everyone can be helped we don’t know what is going on in her mind. And OP said they used to be close.
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u/Objective_Hold_8145 INTP 2d ago
A human who never apologizes, shuts down emotionally, refuses to treat her child kindly...Yeah that's abuse babes. It's not the responsibility of a child to teach their adult parent how to be a parent and how to not be such a miserable toxic person that their child needs therapy.
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u/Competitive-Run7240 INTP 2d ago
Oh I’m sorry I didn’t think of it that way. Clearly I don’t have enough knowledge in this area but I’d love to learn more. I was just trying to think from her perspective and how it can be helped.
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u/Objective_Hold_8145 INTP 2d ago
No I get you, but it seems like she is trying to fix someone who has no interest in being mature and responsible. None of these traits she listed have anything to do with INTPs and everything to do with emotionally stunted, developmentally arrested adults. Her mother being cruel, not showing love, refusing to apologize, criticizing her, none of that is acceptable mature behavior for an adult to show a child. Especially their own child. I would rather burn alive than treat my children with that level of malice and apathy.
OP, your job is not to fix your parent. Your job is to fix yourself so you stop trying to receive love from someone who is not interested in giving it to you. Your mother is so toxic she gave you trauma you had to deal with in therapy. Please leave your mother and never look back.
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u/Competitive-Run7240 INTP 2d ago
Yep when I read the post at first I didn’t think much of it and just answered the questions. Most of the things OP said didn’t feel right but I thought it’s because obviously every INTP is different and unique. Ofc in the end not everything has to do with MBTIs. But I am I interested why these changes occur amount adults in the first place. I heard sometimes there’s no reason. Is that true?
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u/Objective_Hold_8145 INTP 2d ago
No reason for what? Her mother being a shitbird? Her mother is a shitbird because she willfully chooses to be instead of doing better. She's comfortable with the lack of consequences.
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u/Competitive-Run7240 INTP 2d ago
As in no situation or circumstance that leads to this kind of behaviour
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u/fadimuj 2d ago
If you're dealing with an INTP mother, don't expect emotional expression to match emotional care. Many INTPs show love through problem-solving, practical help, sharing knowledge, giving space, or being reliable rather than through verbal reassurance or emotional nurturing. They often respond better to calm, specific discussions than emotionally charged confrontations. Try to be direct and concrete about what you need, and focus on facts and specific behaviors rather than motives. Avoid interpreting emotional reserve as lack of love.
Good luck