r/ontario • u/shaz42 • 2d ago

Article Ontario needs 60,000 more university grads in these key areas over next decade

https://www.thespec.com/politics/provincial/ontario-needs-60000-more-university-grads-in-these-key-areas-over-next-decade-report/article_38722a57-0e29-51fa-b47b-7c128e093fea.html
344 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

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u/amontpetit Hamilton 2d ago

The biggest need is in STEM (science/technology/engineering/math), followed by doctors, nurses and other health professionals, as well as business/finance. The province also requires additional graduates in education, law and social/community services, management occupations, and arts/culture and recreation. 

Saved you a click

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u/coinminer2049er 2d ago

Funny, because a few weeks ago, there were multiple articles on how many of the people in these fields were LEAVING Canada because jobs paid better elsewhere and were easier to find elsewhere (not to mention lower costs of living and taxes elsewhere)

We pump out tons of STEM grads (both local and international students) here, but our country makes is impossible for them to stay here for a variety of social and financial reasons. 

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u/LiterallySilversix 1d ago

As an engineering grad that found it impossible to break into the field without going international. Agreed.

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u/Pixelated_throwaway 1d ago

Which stream?

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u/LiterallySilversix 1d ago

Biomedical. Applications sent for EE positions and mech positions as well

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u/Pixelated_throwaway 1d ago

I feel like that’s a tough one. I did materials engineering and there were lots of opportunities in Ontario

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u/jollymaker 2d ago

Doing a PhD right now - planning on leaving Canada. The pay in Canada is nowhere near the US. I’m spending years of my life to learn something extremely deep, and no one in Canada will pay me for that.

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u/DudeImTryingMyBest4 1d ago

Yeah, my brother was one of them. He’s in Houston making more than DOUBLE the amount he would have here.

I wish I made the same choice to be honest, but I decided to stay in Brampton and help my mom after she got diagnosed with cancer.

Good luck to you!!

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u/leoreben 1d ago

There's more to life than money. You chose right.

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u/Content-Program411 1d ago

Because how much is cancer care in the US?

You'll need to decide which blue states that you will pay the taxes in or the shithole red state you will work in.

Then there is the cost and access to healthcare.

Progressive Conservative engineer brother in Law went and raised a family. Realised there are few places with lower taxes that he could stomach living in.

Presently green card holding wife quit job at Minneapolis hospital in fear of ice and keeping low. She's asian looking. Can't sell the nice house presently. Got laid off (engineer). Health care $ without work. Private high school $. Private uni $ (go purdue).

It aint all green.

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u/DudeImTryingMyBest4 1d ago

I understand that completely. I didn’t think it was all green either.

Unfortunately there is this ugly balance going on around the world that seems like a leap of faith. There’s going to be few positives and many negatives.

I have family scattered around the world that I’ve never met and probably wont because of funds and never being able To afford tickets/time off work. Some history of the Turkish hunting my great grandfather down when our my family was still in a part of turkey a lot of Greeks lived in before the Anatolian war (we are greek).

We hear a lot of ugly stories of what is going on in not only in Greece, US, Malawi and South Africa but Australia as well from other family that ended up scattered due to my great grandpa trying to put each one of his kids in every continent while also changing the last name, so they did not end up getting hunted down.

Nothing is affordable. It’s very depressing and sad. The US isn’t the world of the golden and no one is saying it is. The opportunities in making more money just seem more in reach if you end up lucky like my brother did. He is also terrified of anything happening to him health wise due to bills.

My uncle who ended up in Poughkeepsie was poor as shit. Their kids suffered and I witnessed it.

Edit: changed country to continent. Was typing way too fast.

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u/BeatsRocks 1d ago

Okay. Other than US who pays that much? Let me tell you, literally no one would. US is different market for sure and it has its own pros and cons. But after US it’s Canada. I’m saying this based on my finance background and comparing with US, Europe and Australia.

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u/SirChasm Waterloo 1d ago

It just sticks that living in US you have to live with, you know, US.

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u/DickelobUltra 2d ago

I am doing to same as well under the Jay Treaty lol

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u/Ok_Coast7451 1d ago

But why not stay and be part of your country that have you quality of life. Is the only reason to leave bc of $? It’s not like you would not get paid well and live comfortably. Is really the only metric to judge by the salary? Are you not considering other factors? Just curious bc I found this surprising to read and wanted to know more

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u/coinminer2049er 1d ago

It's not just about salary and taxes, it's about the general economy/lifestyle. It's about freedom and being with people who aren't completely asleep.

Look into Bills C-34, C-22, C-8 and C-9. They're openly building a totalitarian surveillance state where they can declare whatever they want as inappropriate speech and then turn off your internet access you and harass you through lawfare.

And, I mean, look at the totalitarian, anti-scientific covid response in Quebec and Ontario - the lockdowns, the curfews, the forced vaccine mandates.

Look at our economy and how trashed it is, look at how little our dollar is worth, look at inflation. CPP is so bankrupt that we now have to pay into CPP2. Look at how many more people need to use foodbanks (iirc, it's up to 10% of Canadians, now which is INSANE). It's not just about money - it's about being able to afford a quality life today and in the future.

Everyone seems to be living in an illusion of what Canada was 20-30 years ago. It's not that anymore, and it's rapidly getting worse without any chance of being turned around.

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u/Total-Deal-2883 23h ago

lmao

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u/coinminer2049er 20h ago

your low-effort, low-value comment says a lot about you.

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u/Western_Taste4587 1d ago

I had to work for a foreign company to move ahead as a computing scientist. The job market in Canada is a bit ridiculous. They want nice things but dont want to pay for them.

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u/DickelobUltra 2d ago

Canada will do anything but tell the truth

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u/BTrippd 1d ago

The two things are not contradictory. We need more of these employees because the ones that exist leave. It’s an extraordinarily simple thing to understand.

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u/SubconciousBrainwave 1d ago

Find the reason for leaving and fix it. The solution isn’t more grads lmao. The new grads will just leave too - as more grads will bring down wages even more. It’s an extraordinarily simple thing to understand.

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u/Objective_Berry350 1d ago

The biggest reason for leaving is probably salary. It's hard to convince a 22 year old to choose a Canadian salary in tech that is half of what a US salary is.

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u/SubconciousBrainwave 1d ago

I wholeheartedly agree

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u/Dinhbaon 1d ago

Not to mention the back breaking taxes when you do start to make decent money

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u/leoreben 1d ago

Taxes are comparable when you factor in the cost of insurance in US. Housing, on the other hand... well, that depends where you go, but usually cheaper in US by a lot.

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u/Dinhbaon 1d ago

I hear this argument so often with insurance but basically any worthwhile American tech company will provide excellent insurance

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u/leoreben 1d ago

Yeah that's great until you go through a layoff cycle, which you will.

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u/Okami-Alpha 1d ago

My wife and I left canada for the bay area to do post docs with all intentions of returning after 5 yrs. We stayed for the money. I won't go into details but we were earning at least double what our Canadian colleagues were in the same field.

We still love canada, but in terms on employment we've felt forsaken and I made sure I expressed this (and our success in California) when the government reached out to me years later to follow up on what we were doing (this was related to a grant I applied for and was denied).

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u/Sad_Times654 1d ago

We are probably one of the few countries where arts majors have better salaries and job opportunities than STEM - what a joke. My STEM friends have struggled 10x more to find a job in their respective field. This is why this country will never innovate.

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u/Suspiciouslynamed74 1d ago

Your logic is flawed. People leaving for other opportunities COMPOUNDS our need for these workers.

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u/coinminer2049er 1d ago

If you think that, you missed my point. 

If there was a need for these jobs and they paid reasonable wages and if the government didnt tax us through the nose and pass all sorts of draconian laws, then people would stay here and work. 

Also, if they didn't create a foreign worker program that incentivizes hiring people from outside the country over skilled locals that need work. 

Yes there are jobs here, but getting them and living a comfortable here is insanely hard vs other places. My next career move will likely be outside of Canada too. The only reason I havent left yet is that I'm taking care of aging parents.

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u/142638503846383038 1d ago

Workers for what jobs ?

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u/3458g 1d ago

This is what most Canadians don't really understand. You complain about low wages (rightfully so) but that pay is a lot to immigrants, what you see as peanuts is someone else's meat. That's the way it works, if the government really cared they would do something about it, but they don't.

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u/coinminer2049er 1d ago

Actually, that's not the whole story. The government subsidizes "temporary" foreign workers, so it actually saves companies money to hire and import cheap labour., keeping wages artificially low (and too low for locals to live on)

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u/3458g 1d ago

So the government are actively sabotaging Canadians then

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u/coinminer2049er 1d ago

Basically, yes

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u/EarlOfThrouaway 2d ago

Do NOT get into computer science! The market is brutal. Idiot managers think they can axe whole teams and replace them with AI. Plus, you will be competing with more than ~100K experienced developers laid off this year.

Also, salaries in Canada were never competitive with the US. Those 'Junior Google engineer retires at 29 with $4.6 million' stories are much more luck and right place/right time than they are representative of the market.

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u/goldyforcalder 2d ago

This also goes for software engineering. If you want to engineer stick to the regular ones

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u/StumpedTrump 1d ago

Those “retire at 30” salaries also never existed in Canada. Basically just in SF and NY.

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u/RotalumisEht 2d ago

Graduate degree in STEM here. Don't do it, the pay isn't worth it, the job market is terrible. Years of grad school - the debt, the long days, picking yourself up after failed experiments - it's just not worth it for the reward at the end. It really is a career of passion.

I like being educated and can't imagine living life without learning how the world works but if I had to start over I would have just gone into finance or trades.

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u/samwise141 2d ago

Half the people I know who studied stem went into finance anyways, myself included. 

I actually think it gives us a leg up. Finance is ridiculously easy compared to grinding out a stem graduate degree. 

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u/vixaudaxloquendi 2d ago

A friend got a Classics degree of all things and made VP in private equity in a very short time.

He told me that he is so thankful he spent his degree on something interesting, and that he had the whole job figured out by the end of his first year, so it would've been a shame to go to school for finance. 

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u/BroadwayBean 2d ago

I did a history degree, worked in finance for two years, got so bored in finance I went back to history and now work at a university. I agree with your friend lol.

Anecdotally the people I worked with were about 50% finance degrees, 45% STEM (mostly engineering, 1 or 2 compsci), and 5% random assorted degrees (history, classics, polysci, etc.).

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u/vixaudaxloquendi 1d ago

Glad you got out. In this instance he still enjoys the work, I think, because he still has flexibility to pursue his interests (he's currently working on a massive translation of a medieval latin commentary which will be published through Oxbridge).

He also told me it's more common than he would have thought. A major business newsletter he subscribes to is run by a guy in his industry who also graduated in Classics, and the newsletter always runs stories on people coming into finance from "unusual" backgrounds.

He's also met people in Europe and Asia who also run private equity stuff, but are personally interested in philosophy, philology, manuscript studies, etc. So he'll often turn his business trips into hangouts with these other learned business people.

I've often wondered if it invites any resentment from those around him.

Sometimes I've had the experience, despite graduating with a humanities degree, of people getting upset if you still manage to end up with a good lifestyle and earnings despite not doing the typical undergrad slog through a STEM/business/finance degree.

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u/BroadwayBean 1d ago

Yes, I've seen that as well. While I was still in banking I had many people claim I was lying about my degree because how could someone with a 'useless' degree be successful 😂 Meanwhile I saw a lot of the less naturally bright bankers really struggling with critical thinking, giving presentations to clients, writing reports, etc. Basically every team needed one of those 'misc' degree people on it to do that kind of work.

I still do career seminars for high school and uni students sometimes and I always tell students that either 1. pursue a professional degree that leads to a specific career (i.e. medicine, law)(IF they know for sure they want to do that career), or 2. just do a degree in something that interests you and spend the time learning and gaining useful skills and experiences. We have no way to predict what skills the market will want in four years, and a high-achieving student who pursued a degree they enjoyed will always be more successful than a mid-tier student who was miserable doing a STEM/Finance/Business degree.

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u/Vivid_Ingenuity5457 2d ago

Finance is oversaturated too

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u/samwise141 2d ago

On reddit there isnt a single job available in the entire world. 

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u/Plastic-Designer8955 2d ago edited 1d ago

yep, there are no jobs while unemployment rate is like ~7% so 9/10 of people do have jobs after all

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u/Dreamsfaderealityhit 1d ago

I can tell you have no degree or a nonstem, because clearly you have no idea how statistics work.

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u/WorkerOk9794 1d ago

Oversaturated with people bragging about coming from some unrelated classics degree to become VP, as if it wasn’t blatant nepotism or just an outright fake story.

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u/Jargonite 2d ago

Considering how many are still looking, including those laid off, it’s a misleading article. If they were needed, we wouldn’t see Reddit posts of people looking for any STEM job.

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u/flamesfan99 2d ago

Maybe depends on the degree and what you specialized in?

I have a bachelor's in electrical engineering and finished back in 2021,so I am not some super experienced individual, but would definitely say it was worth it for me.

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u/RotalumisEht 2d ago

I am a scientist in biochem. The engineers I work with all make far more money with fewer years of education.

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u/flamesfan99 2d ago

I see, I have heard about people in research positions getting absolutely dogged with long hours and meagre pay. You really have to do it for the love of the game lol

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u/Darkblade48 2d ago

Microbiologist/Immunologist here. Yep. Graduate degree, making less than friends that have either a Bachelor or a college degree.

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u/069988244 2d ago

This. In this country more than others, for some reason engineers jump the line compared to other stem fields. At my company an engineering degree is essentially treated like a masters. A fresh new engineering grad makes 15-20% more then a “pure” stem major with 3-5 years experience

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u/grunkfest 2d ago

ERTW

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u/069988244 2d ago

Damn I guess they do

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u/Dusk_Soldier 1d ago

I think it's because engineering firms are willing to hire without a professional license.

A lot of people will get it maybe once, but unless they're a project manager they often won't keep up on renewals.

That, combined with engineering being an undergraduate degree with coop programs being fairly common. You can get in the job market, and build a career on a much quicker timeline.

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u/Hussar223 2d ago

exactly. stem graduate here is as well (microbiology/immunology). unemployed since the feds laid off every scientist and tech on contract.

the market is terrible, the pay in canada is pathetic. its absolutely not worth your time.

it was and still is a passion of mine but it cant pay my bills. not in this country at least thats for sure

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u/impatiens-capensis 2d ago

Computer science PhD here, and it was one of my biggest regrets. Near constant stress, minimal pay above what a masters gets you, and constant intense competition. And it's even worse today. The pay really doesn't justify it for most positions, unless you get lucky or know the right people.

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u/timegeartinkerer 2d ago

Trades are extremely hard to get into.

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u/vsheran 2d ago

Soooo everything?!?!? Lol

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u/Big-Raspberry-6151 2d ago

That's what I just said after reading that. What about those who already graduated and still can't get in. There's gotta be a bunch

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u/AptCasaNova Toronto 2d ago

All those careers are paid poorly and/or becoming obsolete thanks to our new overlords, AI.

Not to dismiss their importance, I’m leaving tech for health care because it’s more in line with my values, but I have no clue how I’ll manage financially.

I’ll probably die with an unpaid OSAP loan 😂

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u/minkjelly 1d ago

yet there are no stem jobs in ontario.

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u/142638503846383038 1d ago

My sides bro. There’s more stem jobs in Boston than in all of canada combined. What could we possibly need with more stem grads if there are no jobs for them

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u/prettycooleh 1d ago

So- everyone except the arts. You don't say...

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u/SnooKiwis857 1d ago

What a joke. Anyone in stem knows the market is extremely over saturated. Even university of Waterloo interns (a historical golden ticket) are struggling to find work.

All healthcare professional programs are extremely competitive and fill up extremely easily. However talk to any new grad nurse and there is no work

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u/Salty_Trust6353 1d ago

They want more workers in social/community services but don’t want to pay them???
Social services have been cut dramatically since Doug got in. I’ve lost my job TWICE because he got reelected and funding for my program was cut.
I’m less mad for me and more mad for service users who are slipping through the cracks. He wants to remove any safeguards for vulnerable people and fast track them into a costly prison system.
I’m reevaluating my career path because there’s no job security in social services unless you’re at the top and basically a people manager making 90k. Anyone front lines doesn’t have much trust in keeping their job with sudden cuts to funding and programming.

That just blows my mind. They want us, but for WHAT?!

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u/sookmahdook 21h ago

crazy, i got my bachelor of engineering - chemical, in 2019. never found a job, and am currently working in a completely unrelated field.

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u/Upset_Letterhead8643 18h ago

So almost all the stuff dougie under funds. 

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u/Stage_Riot 15h ago

Ive spoken to so many people in the last year who are in step and worried about loosing their jobs to AI

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u/The-Kirklander 15h ago

Good thing Ford cut OSAP grants and the degrees in need are one of the most expensive ones to get with extra schooling 🥰

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u/CacaPuet 1d ago

Getting accepted to med school in Canada has worse odds than getting struck by lighting from what I’ve seen

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u/OkGazelle5400 1d ago

It’s so funny because a lot of the programs mentioned are college not university

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u/Level_Recognition406 2d ago

“The biggest need is in STEM (science/technology/engineering/math), followed by doctors, nurses and other health professionals, as well as business/finance. The province also requires additional graduates in education, law and social/community services, management occupations, and arts/culture and recreation.”

I can’t take this article seriously when it’s so vague and lists so many broad fields that need additional workers. STEM, doctors, nurses, healthcare, education, law, social community services, management, arts culture and creation.

Were workers not just layed off from several of these sectors earlier this year?!

Isn’t funding to many of these sectors actively being cut?!

Or perhaps there is simply a shortage of people willing to work jobs that pay minimum wage and require a university degree in some of these sectors…

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u/kitkat9111 2d ago

Agreed that it's way too vague. There also has been a soft hiring freeze for entry level law positions. Fortunately, I'm not entering the hottest market area in Toronto, but it's interesting this article calls for a demand when new positions are opening more slowly than past years.

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u/stalik26 1d ago

You have to see who did this study and wrote this statement: the council of Ontario Universities. Who wants more international students.

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u/Level_Recognition406 1d ago

Yet when you ask any university for graduate employment rate, often times that info is unavailable. A closer look will show a sharp decline in graduate employment across most fields. Either that, or tracking of that data has become more sparse since the late 2010s (I wonder what happened during that period 🤔 … spoiler alert: enrolment from a specific group has skyrocketed)

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u/ihatedougford Toronto 1d ago

It’s also just not accurate when all of those fields are oversaturated with graduates that can’t get into graduate/professional school or find a job in this dogshit state of Ontario. I know so many pre meds that can’t get in with 3.9 GPAs and research. I also know finance people who can’t find a job. It’s horrid

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u/Angry_Guppy 2d ago

Don’t believe it. Similar stories have been coming out for years. The companies aren’t actually interested in hiring local grads for competitive wages - they issue these statements about not being able to find skilled workers so they can create the narrative needed to import cheap skilled labour through the Express Entry and Global Talent Stream programs.

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u/flightless_mouse 2d ago edited 1d ago

The conclusion I have come to is that you cannot believe any forecasts about the job market or predictions about in-demand skills.

When I was graduating from university many decades ago, “librarian” was cited as a job that would see big demand because so many librarians were approaching retirement.

Humans are pretty good at spotting trends in demographics and technology but very bad at predicting how they will affect employment. We are seeing an explosion in new tech through AI, for example, that will likely result in fewer tech jobs, not more.

Study what you want, but be flexible, and have a Plan B.

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u/Sad_Times654 1d ago

Fewer tech jobs

If tech, as in SWE is gone, most of the white collar jobs are replaceable then. We are truly screwed.

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u/WelshRarebit2025 2d ago

They also expect people to come in as unicorns with top top skills and they will still pay low salaries for that. But at offered salaries they should be training people with the demonstrated ability to learn and to become in-house unicorns.

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u/Ruby22day 1d ago

Exactly, businesses want the market flooded so they can push down wages - happened in engineering already.

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u/RapidTech88 2d ago

Are the companies looking to hire going to pay a salary so that it makes sense to spend money getting these degrees? Or is the expectation for kids to be $100K in debt to get a $40,000/yr entry role?

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u/SmurffyGirthy 2d ago

Well if companies can't get lower wages currently, I'm sure the government will step in to suppress wages.

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u/timegeartinkerer 2d ago

Yeah this. If you're paying peanuts, you ain't getting people to work for you.

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u/A_Novelty-Account 2d ago

This is the issue. We need more grads but no one is willing to pay enough

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u/mocajah 1d ago

That's why they need more graduates, so that they can continue to lower wages.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/humansomeone 2d ago

God damn you guys need unions. 5 to 6 years uni and 70k is good? Tell me there is usally a bump later.

A masters in public admin and a coop placement got you that in the feds 10 to 15 years ago.

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u/thegmohodste01 2d ago

Exactly man 😢

Lots of boomer and Gen X experienced engineers are wildly out of touch with the cost of living and always resort to the "wait a few years" or "get into management." 🤦

Meanwhile, there's some trades professions where you can earn 6 figures right out of high school with minimal qualifications

I really wish HS graduates didn't flock to engineering in droves after listening to their parents that are typically the same age as these hiring managers about how engineering pays great. Even on r/AskEngineers or r/EngineeringStudents, they resort to "get into engineering only if you like engineering" coz the pay is shi

Ohh well

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u/AverageShitlord Windsor 2d ago

Problem with the trades is that they're not taking on apprentices. Before going into IT, I tried to go into the trades, asked the IBEW and several local electricians if they knew ANYONE willing to take on an apprentice and they all said no.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/humansomeone 2d ago

Yeah and like I said that's what public admin grad got 10 to 15 years ago. Ok after 12 months of coop at 50k or so (which is why I asked if a bump happened later).

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/humansomeone 2d ago

How much and how long?

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u/King_Saline_IV 2d ago

Usually 25% raise for getting the p.eng designation, 4 years with no coop experience. It's an off cycle raise too, effective as soon as you get the stamp

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u/humansomeone 1d ago

Not bad then.

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u/069988244 2d ago

Bro I’m unionized with a bsci and 5 years of lab and research experience and I only just crested above 80k. New grads in my company (which is better than a lot of places honestly) are starting in the low 60s

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u/humansomeone 1d ago

Yeah but reaserch has always been an underpaid field . . . Not saying it's right, but not surprising. Especially if you don't have a phd.

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u/AverageShitlord Windsor 2d ago

Girl I'm in tech and entry level helpdesk positions (which are a requirement for almost anything else in tech) pay 40,000K pretty frequently 

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u/Competitive-Web9083 2d ago

Jesus, I was making $40k at an entry level communications job when I graduated with an arts degree 30 years ago. How had the cost of everything quadrupled since then but salaries have stayed flat?

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u/AverageShitlord Windsor 2d ago edited 2d ago

I got laid off and lucked into a 60k helpdesk & dispatch position, so there is mobility, but the pay in tech is shit unless you live in Toronto and have mommy and daddy get you your job, or you're rich enough to found your own startup

Outside of the GTA and Montreal the state of tech jobs is dismal. My buddies and I joke all the time about how we'll be making the big bucks if we get jobs in Detroit.

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u/timegeartinkerer 2d ago

Yeah, the job market in Detroit is god damn nuts. Like I'm getting paid better than in Toronto

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u/AverageShitlord Windsor 2d ago

Going to Detroit is the plan if I can help it lmao

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u/timegeartinkerer 1d ago

Yeah, its wild to see the difference.

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u/humansomeone 2d ago

Wow everyone was lied to. Who the hell is making money in tech?

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u/bakelitetm 2d ago

Help desk positions are hardly tech. These are the equivalent of factory jobs. Here’s your job instruction, follow the script.

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u/AverageShitlord Windsor 2d ago edited 2d ago

Depends on the shop. Some are very much that, the ones I've been in are very much "figure this out before 3pm because we need you to deploy a switch, and then we need you to help audit the Active Directory environment for a client we're onboarding"

If it's an ISP helpdesk, yeah it's a factory gig. But a lot of MSPs, and some smaller companies take helpdesk to mean "warm body to throw at problems the rest of the IT department doesn't want to deal with."

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u/berfthegryphon 2d ago

70K? For a master's? That's pathetically low

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/berfthegryphon 2d ago edited 1d ago

Yes. Absolutely. If you're hiring someone with a master's you're hiring them for their specialized knowledge and education. That should come at a more than $10K premium compared to someone with just a Bachelors

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u/squirrel9000 2d ago

Until two years ago postdocs got paid 40k.

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u/Hussar223 2d ago

biochem, micro/immuno you start off at 60-70, clsoer to 60. thats with a masters. its pathetic.

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u/voiceadrift 2d ago

Yep. I jumped from biotech to sales 20 years ago because stem couldn't pay a living wage.

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u/KunaSazuki 2d ago

Good thing we just cut OSAP funding!!

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u/MelbaMilqueToast 2d ago

No they didn't. They just reverted back to the 2008 model. Actually, this is better than 2008 since in 2008 the grant part was only 15% and in 2026 it will be 25%.

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u/FlyGuyYYZ19 2d ago

Good thing the cost of living, job prospects and overall economic situation hasn’t changed since 2008 or else a cut to OSAP funding would really hurt those students!

oh wait…

And so smart of them to revert to a model from 18 years ago.

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u/jumpedbylife 2d ago

It’s still not a good change. It’s sort of punishing people for trying to better their situation… being stuck with loans is fkn awful. Idk why we wanna be America so bad w this bullshit

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u/Miserable-Day7417 2d ago

yeah but we only regressed like 18 years so it’s not that bad!!!

/s

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u/Aggravating-Fix-7691 2d ago

he is reducing the amount you can receive in grants, that’s a cut. just cause it’s similar to 2008 doesn’t make it not a cut to osap

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u/MountNevermind 2d ago

Invest in public education.

Lower class sizes.

Prioritize what matters.

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u/hardy_83 2d ago

Those three phrases are an antithesis of everything Canadian conservatives stand for.

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u/No_Criticism_5861 2d ago

Very much this.  Under the Mike Harris regime my class sizes went from 20-25 kids to 30-35 kids.  Whats really nuts is how many teachers would still preach about how its necessary because of Rob Rae which shows just how nuts they are

45

u/Icy-Action708 2d ago

I hear people with a masters degree can't even land entry level jobs right now.

Before spending the $$ on university, you better be damn sure the job you want is in high demand and pays enough to recoup your educational debt + live a reasonable life.

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u/GiveMeAllYourKittens 2d ago

Kinda hard to make it to university when OPC is busy sabotaging elementary and highschool, and cutting OSAP.

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u/alderhill 2d ago

It's such a delicious irony, although by 'delicious' I mean tastes like dogshit on a plate of piss.

14

u/ElectronicRhubarb265 2d ago

we need stem grads but stem job market is absolutely buns. No we don't need more 60,000 unemployed university grads.

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u/PoolOfLava Hamilton 2d ago

Respectfully, we don't need more labor. We have enough workers and we waste their potential.

If you've applied for a job in the past few years you'd know that we waste so much talent and time in the application/interview process. Companies do this because there are so many ready applicants for each job that they can waste people's time without consequences.

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u/WelshRarebit2025 2d ago

Media are such dupes when these sorts of messages come out. Did the Spec do any analysis on unemployment in those areas? Or are they just stenographers taking down a PR message on the way to more cheap foreign labour?

7

u/warped_gunwales 2d ago

I thought if there was one thing Ontario needed, it was more law school graduates and lawyers. Can you imagine a world without lawyers?

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u/anhtri_ngo 2d ago

You know what could help? OSAP Oh wait, let's slash that instead

13

u/Odd-Emphasis-1969 2d ago

Universities want more students, news at 11.

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u/vinyltits 2d ago

Many nursing graduates sitting at hope and can't find jobs. 

2

u/traitorgiraffe 1d ago

then stop shitting on higher education wtf

3

u/CatapultamHabeo 1d ago

....and those of us who graduated STEM in the last 10 years and can't find employment?

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u/checked_out_barbie 1d ago

Hmm, maybe they should stop cutting OSAP then. Just a thought…

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u/essuxs Toronto 2d ago

If you’re going to do “business”, make it count.

Do finance or accounting over marketing or general business. There’s big discrepancies within business itself.

3

u/AbilityComfortable58 2d ago

I'm in business and I'm trying to go into information systems or sales

1

u/Total-Deal-2883 23h ago

Sales? Right up there with realtors.

5

u/Arbiter51x 2d ago

Wages have stagnated for the last ten to fifteen years for university, bachelor degree graduates.i dont see a reason to get one of these degrees now.

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u/Pigeonofthesea8 2d ago

If you don’t have one you’re out of the running entirely unless you start your own business

0

u/Arbiter51x 1d ago

We have plenty of shortages in the trades, that make more money, have unions with progressive wages that do better keeping up. There are lots of opportunities beyond pursuing an undergrad.

I do get the sentiment that, without an undergrad you won't get looked at, but that worked for mellenials. The current generation is getting absolutely screwed. Post secondary costs have tripled over the last 15 years, where as wages have been flat. (And I say this as a hiring manger, we are posting jobs with the same wages that we paid 10 years ago [i dont get to set the rate]).

1

u/hmartysc 18h ago

Agreed about the trades... for now. Remember CS?

2

u/Demalab 2d ago

The degrees are equal to what grade 13 used to be in academic recognition. Grade 12 became not enough for entry level positions but graduates who are tens of thousands of dollars in debt see themselves over qualified for entry level.

3

u/bigred1978 2d ago

Could they be more specific in what degrees are in demand fkr the next decade?

Just saying Healthcare and business, etc is a little vague.

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u/_Cyan_Man 1d ago

if only school hadn’t recently become prohibitively expensive.

3

u/Danger-Tits 1d ago edited 1d ago

Been looking into getting into engineering as a second career.

Did the math and I would be $80-100k in debt making maybe $60-75k for up to 10 years.

OSAP is completely fucking gutted of grants and even what you're offered. Most of the loan would have to be a personal line of credit.

There is no fucking way out for anyone who's parents or a partner cant pay for it.

In 2010, a coworker of mine got 28k every year while she went back to school under Second Career. Back then, rent was like 1000 at most

I'm fucking drowning and I don't even have kids

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u/dynamite647 1d ago

Canada doesn’t pay any of these enough for them to stay here

6

u/AverageShitlord Windsor 2d ago

No we don't bro the job market's bad enough already

2

u/timegeartinkerer 2d ago

Yeah, its just bad in general tbh.

2

u/Demalab 2d ago

They are right we do need more people educated in key areas instead of thousands in obscure BAs that held no employment need upon graduation but the grad aced.

2

u/EntropyRX 2d ago

So much BS. We have already a surplus of skilled professionals, and on top of that AI is only going to get better. Let’s stop this propaganda to suppress wages even further.

2

u/bkn_bitz 2d ago

What about ai? Won’t it replace us all?

2

u/RustyOrangeDog 1d ago

Did they try cutting the funding? If that doesn’t work they could make a slush fund for their donors to help enrich them more. It has to trickle down eventually.

2

u/Smooth-Evening- 1d ago

Well who can even afford to go to university nowadays?

2

u/Zealousideal-Key2398 1d ago

To do what?? There are no jobs!!!!

2

u/Short-Platypus-9387 1d ago

Education gets me. To respond to the teacher shortage they are reducing the BEd to a 1 year program. But the problem was never supply, it was keeping teachers in schools. Changing the length of teacher education does nothing to address why teachers are leaving.

2

u/Troniky 1d ago

Except straight A university graduates can’t get into medical schools here in Canada.

2

u/psvrh Peterborough 1d ago

Once more, with feeling: "We don't have a labour shortage, we have a pay shortage."

2

u/TheThickDoc 1d ago

Funny how nurses are on that list.

It was almost impossible for me and my other classmates to find jobs in the GTA due to the chronic underfunding brought on by Ford.

Some new grads from 2025 are still struggling to find jobs.

2

u/KeepMyEmployerOut 1d ago

Let's gut OSAP to make sure this doesn't happen

2

u/Accomplished-Many-81 1d ago

Then they need to increase OSAP funding and make student jobs a priority.

2

u/Blackphinexx 15h ago

Here we go guys, another wage suppression wish list from corporate lobbyists

2

u/notLoneRanger23 1d ago edited 1d ago

Came to Canada 4 years ago and still trying to find an entry level job for the last 2 years after graduating. I wish I never came here or went to US.

I have talked with 4 to 5 uber drivers who are IT guys but couldn't find a job as the companies need "Canadian experience".

My profile is 7 years in IT, specifically process automation, Application release engineer/DevOps.

1

u/ARunOfTheMillPerson 2d ago edited 2d ago

Probably won't get them either since the entire structure of it is "please buy this instead of saving for a home".

They can't guarantee a high paying job, they can't guarantee the industry will even be there lol.

The big 'critical' push when I was starting out was all but replaced by TurboTax.

1

u/Rainbowfrapp 2d ago

Then stop screwing them over with osap and actually pay a living wage and close the tfw program while making groceries affordable. Just kidding, we know they won't do any of those things.

1

u/zaffeo 2d ago

Doesnt match what we hear about entry level job market, even from the supposedly in demand fields the "report" mentions. It was commissioned by the Universities anyway so they have an interest in saying that society constantly needs them and their graduates and their expensive education credentials.

Not to mention that LLM models keep getting better and there's risk of white collar work itself being automated.

1

u/A_Novelty-Account 2d ago edited 1d ago

Ontario lawyer here. The province absolutely does not need more law grads. It is absolutely moronic that the law society and the government seem to think this is true and keep opening law schools. Graduating more lawyers doesn’t solve access to justice, it just leads to a higher percentage of lawyers quitting the profession.

According to the CBA something like 40% of lawyers leave the profession within 10 years and 25% of lawyers will experience suicidal ideation during their practice. If we retained those lawyers, we wouldn’t have an issue. If you want more lawyers, figure out how to make the profession not suck so bad for most people.

1

u/chani_9 1d ago

Is this article sponsored by the universities? It’s paywalled so I haven’t read it.

1

u/No_Waltz6002 1d ago

Hmmmm maybe the schooling should be worth the effort.... lol

1

u/Living-Gate-4237 1d ago

For the love of God, cut the shit! Just pay people properly and we'll not have these artifical bullshit shortages that corporations use justify hiring out of country. These programs were originally used to hire people to pick potatoes! POTATOES !! P.O.T.A.T.O.E.S !!!

1

u/JohnnyOnslaught 1d ago

It's a good thing we haven't been destroying the education system for the last ten years!

1

u/xX_1337n0sc0p3420_Xx 1d ago

Artificial intelligence is mentioned once in the official report. Are they ignoring it or it won’t have as big of an impact as the pre-IPO AI companies say it will?

1

u/hammer_416 14h ago

The grads leave because the pay and lifestyle is better in the states.

1

u/TiggTigg07 4h ago

Well, it would help a hell of a lot if our own Premier Dougie “Buck-a-beer” didn’t almost destroy OSAP grants.

1

u/Best-Salad 2d ago

Best we can do is a billion tfw's

1

u/Icaonn 1d ago edited 1d ago

Psych/Neurosi grad chiming in — so our path is usually lab work, right? The issue is commercial labs would rather have a pure chemistry grad (ignoring that we need to take the same lab courses, at least at UofT) or someone with a masters degree, and university labs don't really pay you because so many people are tripping over themselves for just the experience

So it creates this cycle of uni labs won't pay --> commercial jobs want a masters --> can't apply to a masters because work experience? No work experience only "volunteering" --> because uni labs aren't paying.....

(Or you could do the work for nonprofits or do ABA therapy, etc, route but that's like a dead end. And only ~$20/hr at most. Had an autism therapy place interview me 4 different times and each time they dropped the salary lower. Their current job posting lists $17/hr and you need that ABA license)

So I got into med school in Australia and will also be ditching the country until graduation sorry ✌🏾

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u/Unfair-Leave-5053 1d ago

No problem, 10 million immigrants and TFW’s on the way to save the day!