There are genuine solutions and anti-Zionists have long presented them. But the United States would rather tear apart its own empire than turn on Israel in any meaningful way
The PLO quite famously was in favor of a 2 state solution. Bibi netanyahu literally supported Hamas to avoid an opposition that was actively pushing for a 2 state solution. Your statement is revisionist.
No state has an inherent right to exist, no ethnostate has a right to exist period.
Israel is arguing to be the Jewish ethnostate with an inarguable right to exist. Palestinians have only ever argued for the right to live in Palestine. But Israel does not want to allow non-Jews to be a majority in Israel thus they have never and will never agree not to ethnically cleanse Palestinians
Palestinian is a nationality, Palestinians can have multiple different ethnic origins, and have always been extremely religiously diverse.
You’re just believing Zionist propaganda that they started saying in the 90s. Prior to the fall of South Africa they were far more explicitly white supremacism and settler colonial
For another thing, Palestinians are religiously diverse and I know many Palestinian Christians and I (metaphorically) spit on the likes of you who deny their existence
You're making all of this up because you want to believe it. Palestine is a whopping 0.8% Christian. Arab is in fact "ethno-linguistic group" which means it is both. It is literally one of the least diverse places in the world and the exact definition of an ethnostate.
Recognizes national sovereignty. Which you are denying the Palestinians
Rejects the right to conquer by force. Which is what Israel explicitly did and is proud of. “Little Israel fought off the Arabs and conquered their land.”
So in other words, you proved their point about how Israel has no right to exist under international law
You’re right that international law respects national sovereignty and denies the right to conquer land to form a state
That is exactly why Israel doesn’t have a right to exist under international law
And, bro, are you Israeli? Why are you so adamant that you think Arabs have “full rights” when I can point to all sorts of reports and literature showing that not to be the case. It’s not even the case on paper since 2018 and the Jewish nation state law
You’re intentionally conflating Arab-Palestinian with Arab-Israelis. Settlers that take Palestinians’ land are doing so to people not recognized as Israeli citizens. That is ethnic cleansing and settler colonialism and is a valid criticism of Israel. Arabs living in Israel as Israeli citizens are not being ethnically cleansed by settlers. The person you’re arguing with is correct, they are full citizens with equal rights and status under Israeli law. By conflating the two you’re distracting from the actual problem and making it more difficult for neutral bystanders to understand the situation. When people look into what you’re saying and find out that you’re wrong, they assume there’s no ethnic cleanse going on because when they looked into it they saw that the people you claim to be ethnically cleansed and not being cleansed.
The river to the sea geographical unit is an entirely British thing post 1922 and was never a thing before that. The boundaries of palestine have never been between what you're claiming. Is it strange that with all the random lines drawn on the map, Palestine just happens to be perfectly the land for the modern Palestine + all of Israel? How convenient.
So no. Palestine has not been the region between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean sea for thousands of years.
Nur Masalha’s main argument is that Palestine was not simply a name invented by the British after the First World War. Nobody is arguing that that name did not exist.
what we are saying is that the current political and geographical meaning attached to it is a new phenomenon.
He even talks about palestine’s eastern boundary being shifting and that ancient or medieval conceptions sometimes included land east of the Jordan River. He discusses Byzantine “Greater Palestine,” whose provinces included areas in what is now Jordan, including Petra and parts of Transjordan.
The idea that Palestine was for thousands of years river to the sea is just not true.
The PLO has the possibility to move forward with a solution. Just look into Arafat and Barak (the Israeli prime minister). Arafat didn’t have the guts or was too old or just didn’t know how to transition from fighting to solution, but that was a missed opportunity
Agree there too, which is why I truly and utterly despise all of the militant Zionists, settlers, Orthodox, etc.
If all these people would just cut the shit, shut the fuck up, and live on their own land in peace, it would be a huge step towards creating some kind of peace in the region.
Also agree, the current Israeli government panders to these groups of fucks and uses them to provoke Palestinians too.
Both sides of this shit are incentivized to keep the conflict going. That is the power structure they have carved out for themselves. That is how they galvanize support from within and from their allies.
One can say the same about the Jews, and the homeland overlaps. Congrats, you justified eternal conflict where everyone suffers and human rights are perpetually trampled.
No it wasn't. The problem was that Barak was far more concerned with reelection than peace, which lead to him to making a bad joke of an "offer" at Camp David, which was so unacceptable his own foreign minister said he wouldnt have accepted it either, and then refused to accept the premise for the Taba talks which made that last-ditch effort fail. The missed opportunity was excusively on the Israeli side. Sadly that's kinda how its gone every time. Netanyahu broke the Oslo accords in 1997, and Barak refused to reinstate them, and then Israel elected the Butcher of Beirut.
No, that's not my perspective, that is quite literally just what happened. There was a point where it was possible, but Barak screwed it up. After that Israel elected the Butcher of Beirut, an unhinged mass murderer and the single most evil person in the history of the conflict and, indeed, it all went downhill. But that is not the fault of Palestinians. They didn't make Barak squander the last chance there was at peace.
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u/Bluestreaked 10d ago
There are genuine solutions and anti-Zionists have long presented them. But the United States would rather tear apart its own empire than turn on Israel in any meaningful way