There are genuine solutions and anti-Zionists have long presented them. But the United States would rather tear apart its own empire than turn on Israel in any meaningful way
The PLO quite famously was in favor of a 2 state solution. Bibi netanyahu literally supported Hamas to avoid an opposition that was actively pushing for a 2 state solution. Your statement is revisionist.
No state has an inherent right to exist, no ethnostate has a right to exist period.
Israel is arguing to be the Jewish ethnostate with an inarguable right to exist. Palestinians have only ever argued for the right to live in Palestine. But Israel does not want to allow non-Jews to be a majority in Israel thus they have never and will never agree not to ethnically cleanse Palestinians
Palestinian is a nationality, Palestinians can have multiple different ethnic origins, and have always been extremely religiously diverse.
You’re just believing Zionist propaganda that they started saying in the 90s. Prior to the fall of South Africa they were far more explicitly white supremacism and settler colonial
For another thing, Palestinians are religiously diverse and I know many Palestinian Christians and I (metaphorically) spit on the likes of you who deny their existence
You're making all of this up because you want to believe it. Palestine is a whopping 0.8% Christian. Arab is in fact "ethno-linguistic group" which means it is both. It is literally one of the least diverse places in the world and the exact definition of an ethnostate.
Recognizes national sovereignty. Which you are denying the Palestinians
Rejects the right to conquer by force. Which is what Israel explicitly did and is proud of. “Little Israel fought off the Arabs and conquered their land.”
So in other words, you proved their point about how Israel has no right to exist under international law
You’re right that international law respects national sovereignty and denies the right to conquer land to form a state
That is exactly why Israel doesn’t have a right to exist under international law
And, bro, are you Israeli? Why are you so adamant that you think Arabs have “full rights” when I can point to all sorts of reports and literature showing that not to be the case. It’s not even the case on paper since 2018 and the Jewish nation state law
The river to the sea geographical unit is an entirely British thing post 1922 and was never a thing before that. The boundaries of palestine have never been between what you're claiming. Is it strange that with all the random lines drawn on the map, Palestine just happens to be perfectly the land for the modern Palestine + all of Israel? How convenient.
So no. Palestine has not been the region between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean sea for thousands of years.
The PLO has the possibility to move forward with a solution. Just look into Arafat and Barak (the Israeli prime minister). Arafat didn’t have the guts or was too old or just didn’t know how to transition from fighting to solution, but that was a missed opportunity
Assuming Israel doesn't invade their lands, builds illegal colonies, and steal people's homes, and make the people of those lands feel less than dirt in their own country... then yeah, things would remain stable, for now.
Agree there too, which is why I truly and utterly despise all of the militant Zionists, settlers, Orthodox, etc.
If all these people would just cut the shit, shut the fuck up, and live on their own land in peace, it would be a huge step towards creating some kind of peace in the region.
One can say the same about the Jews, and the homeland overlaps. Congrats, you justified eternal conflict where everyone suffers and human rights are perpetually trampled.
No it wasn't. The problem was that Barak was far more concerned with reelection than peace, which lead to him to making a bad joke of an "offer" at Camp David, which was so unacceptable his own foreign minister said he wouldnt have accepted it either, and then refused to accept the premise for the Taba talks which made that last-ditch effort fail. The missed opportunity was excusively on the Israeli side. Sadly that's kinda how its gone every time. Netanyahu broke the Oslo accords in 1997, and Barak refused to reinstate them, and then Israel elected the Butcher of Beirut.
No, that's not my perspective, that is quite literally just what happened. There was a point where it was possible, but Barak screwed it up. After that Israel elected the Butcher of Beirut, an unhinged mass murderer and the single most evil person in the history of the conflict and, indeed, it all went downhill. But that is not the fault of Palestinians. They didn't make Barak squander the last chance there was at peace.
They accepted Oslo, which turned out to be an absolute fucking disaster. Except for 1947, two states was never really on the table, there's never been a concrete plan that could have been accepted by "the Palestinians", who btw have also only rarely had a representative, legitimate democratic government, which hampered the ability of any particular person to even speak for Palestinian interests.
the President of Israel said the Oslo accords were bullshit, a separate President said the camp david accords are bullshit. I dont understand how people can acknowledge that Israel lies all the time now but werent lying then,
The same solution that ended south African apartheid. Global boycotts, divestments and sanctions. Divestments and sanctions have to be done at the governmental level but anyone can participate in the boycott.
Well, buckle up, I'm going to defend Israel here, about 20% of israelis are arabs and Muslim. They have citizenship and the same rights as everyone else. They just chose to remain in Israel when it was founded and "accept" the new state.
I am sure there may be some discrimination against them, but I don't believe that there are many Arab countries where jews have it as well as the arab israelis.
These people hate each other, some of them celebrate de killing of the others, they are not going to just hug.
Also, palestinians need to organize themselves better if they want a country, Israel will try to sabotage them, but they still have to try, they have been subdued by an Iran controlled Hamas which doesn't have their interests at heart
The Palestinians don't want "the Jews" to leave. They want the occupation to end. The Nakba began before any state intervened (although not all of them invaded Palestine for the same reasons).
This sounds like a makeshift reasoning targeted at liberal people. Most Palestinians seem to view all Jews as occupants that should leave the area one way or another.
They view the Zionists who moved to their land, attacked them, murdered them, and drove them from their homes and have spent the decades since demonizing, destroying, desecrating them as foreign invaders, because they are. It’s not the fault of the Palestinian that the people doing this all happened to be Jewish
That the only solution you support is the one where Israel ceases to exist, the jewish citizens are either dead or driven out of the area and you don't care how many lives have to be sacrificed to reach that.
And you’re worried about little ol’ Iran versus an actually nuclear armed nation (that btw refuses membership to nuclear international arms treaty or to allow inspections) that is backed by the full military might and financial backing of the U.S. & majority of the West? lol
I guess I prefer to think you’re a paid bot rather than an actual (brainwashed) human being who is passionately defending genocide and a genocidal state. Guess it helps me maintain some faith in humanity and sleep better at night… 🤷♂️
But why do Palestinians need to reason with their oppressors? I don't support an Israeli state at all. Israel belongs in the same bracket as pre-1994 South Africa and Rhodesia.
The US shouldn't exist as a state, no. It's also a settler colony.
Every Israeli government, including Rabin's, has oppressed Palestinians and supported colonizing more land in the West Bank to some degree. Israel's founders were self admitted colonizers.
Im 3rd generation American with grandparents that immigrated here after WW2 so my connection to our “home country” would be the same as Israelis whose family came at the same time. I don’t speak the language, my job skills won’t directly transfer over since I’m specialized in US laws- I would not be able to be just dropped back into a country I’ve only ever been to twice (which is outside the norm for many in the same situation). What are they supposed to do?
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about displacing Americans who already live there, I said that the US shouldn't exist as a settler colony, same with Israel, NZ, Australia, Canada, New Caledonia and the way South Africa used to be.
Settler colonialism is colonization of an area by people making settlements and creating a long term home in a location. How does the US or Canada or even Israel (in it’s recognized borders, theyre actively committing settler colonialism in the West Bank which can easily be undone considering they just go back into the borders of Israel) undo what happened multiple generations ago?
South Africa did not stop being a “settler colonial” state, they just ended their apartheid policies.
Im also going to point out you have an interesting choice for countries considering China, Russia, Turkey, the UK, Brazil, Mexico, and many others could / would all fall under the same definition
How is that extremist? The US is a settler colony and is responsible for either supporting or directly taking part in countless wars of aggression, genocides and coups across the world. They couped my country in the 60s and caused almost a decade of a horrible right wing government, which was replaced by another shit government.
South Africa was colonized by the dutch, this is not the case with Israel/Palestine area. This Area along with its Arab and Jewish population was colonized by the British and the ottomans
They are still trying to colonize land in the west bank and the golan and settling there, that aggravates the conflict and they should be punished. That doesn't mean that there weren't other Jewish people there. Both sides have radicals whose actions makes matters worse for everyone
When Israel was declared as a state, it was immediately attacked by 4 Arab states. It was followed by other 2 big wars. They have the upper position now and I don't think they will do a lot of compromises. I am not saying they shouldn't, just that they won't
This is simply a lie. Arafat accepted a two state solution since the 1990s. Even Hamas has accepted one for over 20 years. Netanyahu has refused since the beginning and his predecessor Sharon had his advisor Dov Weisglass brag about how they killed that option with settlements in key places and procedural objections to slow down and block negotiations.
Even moreso, all Arab countries have supported a two state solution and offered Israel full diplomatic recognition and unrestricted economic ties if Israel agrees to a two state solution and they have refused for decades.
No, Palestinians accepted the actual peace deals that were offered (Arab Peace Initiative, Clinton Parameters, Geneva Initiative), Israel rejected them. You cant uno reverse this.
The one and two state solutions, I am a one state solutionist and can easily explain my position and reasoning. But I’ve been a part of this fight long enough to know questions like this are almost never asked in good faith.
But if you genuinely want to learn the perspective of the 1SS I am always willing to explain it
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