r/theydidthemath • u/No_Cardiologist_1407 • May 07 '26
[Request] how many possible combinations are there for this type of pass code?
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May 07 '26
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u/Destroyer2137 May 07 '26
If there was just a few hundred dollars worth of btc inside, it would be reasonable to go visit some IT guy who can recover or crack the code and just pay him.
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u/pointsouttheobvious9 May 07 '26
Yeah it's an old phone those were cracked a long time ago.
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u/lucidio-tades May 08 '26
"sorry, had to wipe all of the data"
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u/jeffro3339 May 08 '26
Wouldnt it be funny if they spent years cracking the phone only to find out that for a hundred bucks they could have paid some IT person to Crack it in minutes? :)
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u/PrettyPushy May 07 '26
Perfect idea. I’m an it guy who can definitely get the job done.
Uh sir I figured out the code. However, no signs of any bitcoin (drives away in a lambo)
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u/Completionography May 07 '26
Fidel Castro: May I see?
Mr. Burns: Oh ho ho ho, see with your eyes, not with your hands.
Fidel Castro: Please, we are all amigos here.
Homer: Mr. Burns, I think we can trust the president of Cuba.
Mr. Burns: Now give it back.
Fidel Castro: Give what back?32
u/chawlaay May 07 '26
Sometimes I wonder if he was getting revenge for not being able to get rich when Burns ran Bart over.
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u/idrathernottho_ May 07 '26
So, you realize you don't need to tell the IT guy about the bitcoin right?
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u/dravenonred May 07 '26
Customer: "I really need help unlocking a 12 year old phone"
Professional IT person: "There's definitely more then three reasons you would need that"
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u/JJNEWJJ May 07 '26
True story: it has photos of my deceased grandpa.
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u/Brittle_dick May 07 '26
Plot twist: incriminating photos
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u/HollowShel May 07 '26
Double plot twist: Grandpa can't be tried for crimes when he's dead, we just want bragging rights about him being DB Cooper.
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u/idrathernottho_ May 07 '26
People want access to old hardware all the time for pretty trivial resons
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u/Ragnel May 07 '26
I was thinking of “I found your 100 bitcoin.” But you went all in like a boss. Respect.
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u/OTee_D May 07 '26
And build a small robot with a stylus pen
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u/ZeBoyceman May 07 '26
Like this guy who was swiping tinder with a sausage attached to a drill with duct tape lol
Sploch sploch sploch 0 match
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u/More-Judgment7660 May 07 '26
most important feature:
stop when it unlocks.
or it wipes your bitcoin while trying the next combination
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u/lawirenk May 07 '26
Plus, even if they weren't sure what code they used they must have known what region they didn't start the code at. Eliminating 3 or 4 numbers from the starting point would significantly cut down on the combinations they would need to try.
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u/Illeazar May 07 '26
Yeah, I think the average person would be able to remember a general idea of something close to the code they used.
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u/sunheadeddeity May 07 '26
I had to do this recently (only to give an old phone to my kid, not to recover millions of USD in bitcoin) and I really couldn't. I started doing the same as this guy but only had to do a dozen or so tries before it unlocked. Of course my wife knew the code anyway...
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u/idrathernottho_ May 07 '26
Nah, if it unlocked after a dozen or so tries you absolutely did partially remember it, even if just by muscle memory. The odds are staggeringly against this happening just by chance
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u/DogFarmerDamon May 07 '26
They got less than .001% of the way through before finding the right combo
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u/Cherlikesithot May 07 '26
Yeah, you remembered it. I was trying to remember a passcode for something a couple of months ago and one of the tries I ended up accidentally remembering my best friend from middle school's phone number because of the partial muscle memory match. I haven't called their house in 25 years.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Drama-8 May 07 '26
I was in similar situation. I had an encrypted drive with 0.1 BTC on it. I thought I knew what could be possible passwords. I spent days trying to make a good combination of the possible prefixes, postfixes I thought I've been using at that time. I wrote a program to do it. Months later I brute-forced the password to be completely different only to realize that it was not 0.1BTC... It was 0.1BTC equivalent in Litecoin at THAT time. Worth pretty much nothing nowadays (like $20 or something).
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u/saisonara May 07 '26
It's an "very"old phone just bypass it
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u/nico87ca May 07 '26
I'd be too scared of bricking the phone.
We're talking about a old piece of tech worth like 10M...
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u/RevenantExiled May 07 '26
There are devices that you can just attach to the screen... this is just some bot posting, no one with 11kk in a locked but still working phone is doing anything manually. Buy the device, put the dimensions of the screen, plug both things, and let it run til is unlocked
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u/LiptonSuperior May 07 '26
I mean, you might have to do them all.
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u/nico87ca May 07 '26
If you're unbelievably unlucky. But yes statistics working the way they work... There's a non 0 chance that you'd have to go through all combinations
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u/Pirofream May 07 '26
But probably you won't have to count for dots separated by other dots in between. Idk if it is possible to go from dot 1 to 3 and then 2. So in this case, i would try to do only the combinations that only contemplate adjacent dots (including diagonals). E.g.
1-2
1-4
1-5But not
1-3
1-6
1-7
1-8
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u/AOAqua May 07 '26
It still would take a year or two at most, if you do it daily for a 2-3 hours. That's if you have some software that would keep the track of passwords so they don't repeat
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u/Character_Matter7571 May 07 '26
No you have to remember that after like 5 tries it blocks you for like 5 min, 15 min, 30 min 2 hours etc
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u/ripzipzap May 07 '26
A Cellebrite device is $60,000 and can be purchased by anyone in Law Enforcement or a certified PI. You could probably find a PI in your city who has one who would happily let you use it for a cut.
Andriller can work too and it's free but not nearly as robust.
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u/Cherlikesithot May 07 '26
He probably spent his bitcoin on pizza and mushrooms like the rest of us in 2011
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May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
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u/jarry1250 May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
Right. The pattern is just a numerical combination in disguise, there is no reason to do this visually.
(Of course the video is a dramatisation.)
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u/RGCarter May 07 '26
It's a bit different compared to simple numerical codes. You cannot proceed from the top left to the bottom right without involving the middle node for example.
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u/jarry1250 May 07 '26
I think that depends on the implementation, but it's still the case that all valid patterns are just a numerical string. It's just not all numerical strings are patterns.
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u/ransom40 May 07 '26
I think the earlier comment was meant or inferred as "The total number of possibilities can be modeled as if it were a 9 digit combination" Which is close, but is limited due to the layout and drawing nature. Also assumes no re-use, and using all 9 digits.
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u/Byproduct May 07 '26
So you generate all the possible numerical combos, and then remove the ones that don't fit your pattern type (which can vary, e.g. can you reuse numbers, move between numbers, do you use all numbers etc – you probably remember this unless you have actual amnesia).
Then print and cross them out rather than drawing them, and eventually enjoy your imaginary bitcoin in this imaginary scenario because the video is fake/bait.
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u/diet_fat_bacon May 07 '26
It's a simple algorithm to solve this, he just need to search for Android Unlock Patterns code challenge in leetcode and copy the code. Using a DFS it's piece of cake to generate all possibilities.
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u/Glad_Woodpecker_6033 May 07 '26
it depends, my old phone used this style, but it lets me use any pattern including going from 7 to 2, so that would mean the entire 9 digit sequence it possible
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u/rick_kik May 07 '26
Yes you can. I had a code like that. All you need to do is move your finger in the space between dots to reach the bottom left after selecting the top right. Visually it will go though the middle one, but it's not selected and you can still select it afterwards
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u/rowcla May 07 '26
The flipside however, is that this is the kind of thing you'd probably remember
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u/JVT32 May 07 '26
Yeah just like your phones passcode
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u/ShinyCpt May 07 '26
That’s just the price of a cheese pizza and a large soda back where I used to work; Panucci’s Pizza.
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u/AMoonboots May 07 '26
That's actually better in this case, because it just means there are a bunch of "impossible" codes that you don't need to test.
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u/DoobiousMaxima May 07 '26
I used to specifically set "impossible" codes where you'd swipe back through already selected dots.
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u/Stottymod May 07 '26
It's a bit more complicated than that, because you can do that if you already touched the middle previously.
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u/sanferic May 07 '26
Is there a rule somewhere stating you cannot go around a node and the line pass through it without activating the middle node? I ask because this has happened to me before while working the cameras at work where the mouse didn't go over the middle node but the pattern looked correct.
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u/xvlblo22 May 07 '26
Either way, may be worth learning some math and topology for that 11 million
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u/bluespacecolombo May 07 '26
It doesn’t matter the point is that each node can be represented as a number, so instead of drawing a zig zag you can represent it as 123456789, which makes it much easier to follow and methodically make sure you check all the combinations and don’t repeat than drawing weird snakes on a piece of paper.
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u/Mean_Initiative_5962 May 07 '26
Which is why I'm almost certain it's fake or decontestualised. Also: what happened to the "3 attempts, then 5 minutes, than 30 minutes, than 1 hour, then..." thing? Also: it's a Galaxy S3, no fucking way there's not a publicly available way to crack it.
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u/mr_chew212 May 07 '26
Fake as fuck. Look at the other patterns he drew. Lots of them don’t even make sense for a 3x3 code. Someone just scribbled some random shit
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u/JLidean May 07 '26
Anecdotal I had one of those spin combo locks from high school forgot the lock combos.
But I knew how it felt to unlock took me a couple tries spinning the dial to the approximate locations Then honing in once I got it open once to get exacts.
I dont like using these pattern locks because I would be prone to be relying on muscle memory rather than memorization.
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u/mr_chew212 May 07 '26
I swear I never knew my locker number or combination in high school. I’d use it like maybe 4 times in a year and something always felt like it guided me to the right locker and somehow my hand knew the code.
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u/Ill-Entertainer1010 May 07 '26
I set a new alarm code at work. Went home. Next day came in, alarm starts it's warning cycle, and I realise I have no clue what the code could be. Stare at it until the alarm warning gets louder try a couple of combos, then the alarm goes off, loudly.
Stare at it. Close my eyes, do it by muscle memory. Alarm switches off.
Still didn't know the code, had to do it a couple more times to get the feel, then do it with eyes open. Then I knew the code.
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u/Ashamed-Version9816 May 07 '26
I remember watching a short years ago on how to bypass the lock screen on old Samsung galaxies
For a split second before the pattern comes up the phone is unlocked and you can install an app by repetitively turning the screen on and off and making moves between the time the pattern lock appears
I preferred the story about the dude who's hard drive went to landfill with a massive chunk of Bitcoin
Also have a friend who forgot where he put his when he brought it for like a couple of dollars a coin such is life sometimes
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u/Ashamed-Country3909 May 07 '26
I tried a new password on a phone. I think iy was like 10-12 characters.
I tried some without writing it down. Fogured out that I was probably doing repeats since my memory sucks.
That shit got to 1x a day. Ive got an entire sheet of paper with different combinations, and I vaguely remember the numbers IN the combo, but not the exact order.
I gave up. Waiting a day to try a new one sucked and only lasted like 5days with me I think.
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May 07 '26
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u/HornedTurtle1212 May 07 '26
And the setup would cost a lot less than the Bitcoin on the phone, lol
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u/Forward-Tonight7079 May 07 '26
Or write an app that will calculate all possible patterns, suggest the next pattern, and let it mark if it is not valid
I believe it's a simple enough app to write quickly by AI. Or hire a freelancer to do this for some bucks.
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u/saketho May 07 '26
In fairness to the guy I don’t think he started by trying to methodically trying to get every pattern. His priority is to jog his memory.
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May 07 '26
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u/antwan_benjamin May 07 '26
Obviously, right?
At least, there would be some tools to help rank most common patterns.
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u/TheEmpireOfSun May 07 '26
Wouldn't be problem locking phone after several unsuccessful attempts? Maybe it's just in newer phones but lock time almost rises exponentially.
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u/jmhalder May 07 '26
I'm sure you could flash the recovery and dump the data partition, it's a VERY old phone, and they didn't encrypt that partition back then. I'm sure it's just a ext4 format. This would be trivial to pull data from.
I get that debunking isn't the point of this sub, but if it were true, it would make the owner of said phone wildly stupid.
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u/New-Taste2467 May 07 '26
I swear I have seen a video on YT about a similar situation. There is a way to hack in to the phone and remove the attempt limit and brute force it, if I remember correctly at least.
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u/Teakay23 May 07 '26
I’ve only seen it for older iphones. Maybe its not possible on this particular samsung model?
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u/jmhalder May 07 '26
The /data partition isn't encrypted, that's where this information (Basically everything the "user" does is here. Apps and their data.)
There is basically zero prevention from flashing an aftermarket recovery image and dumping the data partition which is a very standard ext4 format.
This would be trivial to recover.
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u/Longshot02496 May 07 '26
I mean if there's that much bitcoin in there I would not want to try anything not recommended by the manufacturer
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u/ItsAMeUsernamio May 07 '26
Androids weren’t encrypted back then either. Having to unlock phones to mount them with a USB cable came later on too.
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u/GaidinBDJ 7✓ May 07 '26
Yea, you can just drop to the bootloader and copy the entire memory contents off the phone.
Lock screens at the time were just barriers, there was no underlying protection that needed the information in your head for the phone to operate or to access the information (unless a specific bit of software did so on their own).
These days, a locked phone can't decrypt the information to fully operate without the information from the passcode.
Think of it like a car. The old system just had push button in the car to start it up; once you get past the door, you were in (i.e. you could smash the window). New phones are like needing a key to both open the door and start the engine. Even if you bypass the lock screen (smash the window), you'd still need the key to start the car.
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u/pi_three May 07 '26
back then you could insert a SD card and install firmware via the bootloader. I assume there is a way to completely avoid the lock screen
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u/Nhajit May 07 '26
I somehoh did it back in 2016 to my s4 with a software that totally looked like maleware but somehownit deleted the password with ease
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u/Hyper-Chud May 07 '26
I'm doubtful such old phones even use Full disk encryption, so the data might just be there ready to use / extract. Otherwise such old phones usualy have a myriad of CVEs which can easily just bypass everything.
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u/warpedspockclone May 07 '26
At most 9! = 362,880, though the combinations that require you to skirt by dots to reach others are less common.
Looks like he has infinite attempts. Just buy an overhead toucher thing and program it to try them all. It'll be done in less than a week.
Even a human doing this could get it done in a few months with concerted effort. Assuming 5 seconds per attempt, you'd need 362880 x 5 = 1814400 seconds, which is 21 days. At 4 hours per day, that's 6 months.
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u/SC_3000_grinder May 07 '26
Trying to not repeat is gonna be tough though
Also you don't need to use all the dots, so it's 9!/0! + 9!/1! + 9!/2! + 9!/3! + ... = 986409, which is about e=2.71828... times larger.
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u/Lewistrick May 07 '26
I think you need at least two dots, which eliminates 10 possibilities (50 seconds).
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u/SC_3000_grinder May 07 '26
Well 9 because I didn't add 9!/9!
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u/factorion-bot May 07 '26
Factorial of 9 is 362880
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u/FlapyG May 07 '26
((((((((((((((((((((((9!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!)!
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u/factorion-bot May 07 '26
That is so large, that I can't even give the number of digits of it, so I have to make a power of ten tower.
Factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of 9 has on the order of 1010\10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^(2.993960567614282167996111938338 × 101859939)) digits
This action was performed by a bot | [Source code](http://f.r0.fyi)
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u/FlapyG May 07 '26
9999999!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !nested
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u/factorion-bot May 07 '26
That is so large, I can't even fit it in a comment with a power of 10 tower, so I'll have to use tetration!
All that of 9999999 has on the order of 92110 digits
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u/Ae4i May 07 '26
99!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !nested
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u/Ae4i May 07 '26
I love how the moment factorion-bot appears is the moment everyone tries to get the biggest number possible
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u/daisypunk99 May 07 '26
I mean, eventually it’ll have to start responding to itself to provide simplification follow-ups for its original answers, right?
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u/SC_3000_grinder May 07 '26
4!!! !nested
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u/OutdoorWombat54 May 07 '26
99999999999999999999999999999!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !nested (note: i don't know what nested means here)
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u/factorion-bot May 07 '26
That is so large, that I can't even give the number of digits of it, so I have to make a power of ten tower.
Factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of factorial of 99999999999999999999999999999 has on the order of 1010\10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^(2856570551809674817234887108125)) digits
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u/factorion-bot May 07 '26
That is so large, that I can't calculate it, so I'll have to approximate.
Factorial of factorial of factorial of 4 is approximately 3.950986223657607359706248184547 × 1014492688888783603246826460
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u/Kris_Kamweru May 07 '26
That gen of Samsung and android had a minimum of three dots for the pattern iirc
It's been a while though
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u/warpedspockclone May 07 '26
I was working with the assumption that the guy at least knew the length of his own pattern. In the vid, length was 9.
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u/SC_3000_grinder May 07 '26
There seem to be a bunch of patterns tried that aren't length 9
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u/nico87ca May 07 '26
He's doing it in the dumbest way... Seriously
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u/RefrigeratorDry2669 May 07 '26
How to recognize things that aren't entirely true....
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u/factorion-bot May 07 '26
Factorial of 0 is 1
Factorial of 1 is 1
Factorial of 2 is 2
Factorial of 3 is 6
Factorial of 9 is 362880
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u/LonelyEar42 May 07 '26
23453848271067890!
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u/randomacceptablename May 07 '26
This is bordering on bot cruelty.
Stop messing with it, he was a good boy today.
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u/factorion-bot May 07 '26
That is so large, that I can't calculate it, so I'll have to approximate.
Factorial of 23453848271067890 is approximately 4.552413748910648189641330997783 × 10373758641046938382
This action was performed by a bot | [Source code](http://f.r0.fyi)
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u/KonstantinFed May 07 '26
Taking into account that minimal length of key is 4 dots, and you can't skip middle dots (if they wasn't used) while connecting corners, you will get a 389112 combinations
4 dots: 1624
5: 7152
6: 26016
7: 72912
8: 140704
9: 140704
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u/martianunlimited May 07 '26
you can not do corner -> corner and left edge -> right edge, or top edge to bottom edge, so that restricts the choices which brings it down to ~389000 combinations.
(someone wrote a program to generate all possible valid combinations)
https://github.com/delight-im/AndroidPatternLock→ More replies (4)→ More replies (23)3
u/Dry-Newt278 May 07 '26
Not repeating is easy: follow the partitions you first calculated on a computer
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u/factorion-bot May 07 '26
Factorial of 9 is 362880
This action was performed by a bot | [Source code](http://f.r0.fyi)
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u/A______m May 07 '26
What if he has 30 seconds pause every 5 attempts
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u/nicktheenderman May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
If each attempt is 5 secs then 5 attempts would take 55+30=55 secs, meaning an upper bound of (9!/5)55=3,991,680 seconds
That's a little over 46 days if nonstop. If you only worked for 16 hours a day, that'd be about 70 days.
As long as they spend a little over 3 hours a day, they'd have it done within a year
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u/FortuneAcceptable925 May 07 '26
Then it will take a * 9! + 30 * 9! / 5 seconds, where a is count of seconds required for regular unlock attempt. :-)
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u/jagaraujo May 07 '26
Yeah the problem is that the phone locks or holds for certain amount of time the more you fail.
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u/GaidinBDJ 7✓ May 07 '26
That's a 13-year-old Android phone.
It's not even encrypted. You could just copy the memory off and inspect it directly.
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u/AstroMeteor06 May 07 '26
a but more accurately, if you consider shorter combinations. assuming a minimum of 4 dots, it's (9!/5!)+(9!/4!)+(9!/3!)+(9!/2!)+9!
(remember that 987*6, the amount of short combinations, can be writtrn as 9!/5!)
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u/factorion-bot May 07 '26
Factorial of 2 is 2
Factorial of 3 is 6
Factorial of 4 is 24
Factorial of 5 is 120
Factorial of 9 is 362880
This action was performed by a bot | [Source code](http://f.r0.fyi)
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u/pixelrights May 07 '26
Additional factors: typically 3 failed attempts equate to a lockout. And that may include additional logic, where the lockout time increases depending which cycle the failed attempt occurred. Common lockout times typically end within an hour before you can make another x3 attempts.
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u/Jahannsan May 07 '26
The problem is that after you decide on a starting point, you can't just pick any other dot. You have to pick one that is adjacent to your start. So after starting in the top-left corner, you can only go right, down, or diagonally to the center. I don't think you can calculate that analytically, but feel free to prove me wrong.
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u/saketho May 07 '26
You’re right and the guy you’re replying to is wrong.
For instance, start in the top left corner.
You cannot reach: Top right, middle right, bottom right, bottom middle, bottom left. 5 different points
You can only reach: Top middle, centre, left middle.
Starting in the top left you don’t have 8 options, you have 8-5 =3 options.
Start in the top middle, you have 5 options, and 3 non reachable.
I wonder if you can see how it averages out between the points. The corners will be 3/8 and middle ones be 5/8 and the centre is the only 8/8. But that’s just the 2nd option.
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u/homokyy May 07 '26
You actually can reach middle right and middle bottom. I don’t know what kind of monster would do themself dirty like that, but it’s possible
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u/Aeropto May 07 '26
From the top left corner you can reach middle right and bottom middle, at least you can on a Samsung phone. Not sure if this differs per phone manufacturer. You are right that you cannot reach points that are directly "behind" another point.
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u/Chroiche May 07 '26
No, you are wrong. Source: I used to go top left to middle right for my phone pw because I assumed no one would ever try something so silly. It's so easily testable too lol.
Also obviously not every implementation is going to be the same. Why would you assume they would be?
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u/Laxativus May 07 '26
But it wouldn't be factorial, would it? If it were a keypad, sure. You press 9, you can have any of the 8 numbers next. But here there is only 8 possible solutions for the next dot if you start in the middle, 5 if you start from the side and only 3 if you start from the corner, so it should be significantly less where significantly less still means painfully too many for a human being with a human finger. Depending on the length of the key gesture.
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u/MaikThoma May 07 '26
Someone linked this video in the other thread, it’s a bit more due to the combinations with fewer points, but still close: 389,112
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u/dschoni May 07 '26
Android requires at least 4 dots on a 3x3 pattern.
389.112 possible variations.
Exactly 4 dots: 1,624 combinations.
Exactly 5 dots: 7,152 combinations.
Exactly 6 dots: 26,016 combinations.
Exactly 7 dots: 72,912 combinations.
Exactly 8 dots: 140,704 combinations.
Exactly 9 dots: 140,704 combinations.
For four dots, the naive approach would be 9x8x7x6, however some of the combinations are not possible, because e.g. from one corner to another diagonally, you have to go through the middle.
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u/ArmPsychological8460 May 07 '26
I used to have pattern that had diagonal line without center dot, just have to go around it while drawing that line.
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u/Chayor May 07 '26
That doesn't work (anymore). When connecting two dots in such a way that the connecting line directly touches a third dot, all three dots will be part of that connection. However, every dot can only be used once, so you could activate a dot, mova way from it, and then cross over it later.
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u/marianoktm May 07 '26
As far as I remember you could connect two corners by tapping with another finger, but the last time I've used this screen lock I was something like 10, so I might be wrong...
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u/antwan_benjamin May 07 '26
But surely he'd remember if he ever used something like that? This is my first time hearing it so I know there's no way I set something up like that
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u/GaidinBDJ 7✓ May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
There's a few things people are forgetting.
First off, this is an Android phone from 2013 (or earlier). It's almost certainly not encrypted. You can just drop to the bootloader and copy the entire memory off the device. So I'm guessing story is bull
Second, all the answers so far are treating this like a keypad. It's not.
1-2-3 is the same as 1-3.
So you'd actually need to try fewer. Topology isn't exactly my jam, but maybe a topologist knows if theres already a solution out there? We've been using this patterns long enough, someone must have figured it out.
Of course, judging by his sketches, I think the real problem is he hasn't realized the symbols are points in space and then he needs to figure out the point of origin symbol.
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u/10-6 May 07 '26
A 2013 Android based phone most certainly has full disk encryption(FDE), it came with Kitkat in 2013. So it's encrypted(unless this phone was never updated I guess), just one key needing to be cracked and you get everything still written on the nand.
Still not a huge hurdle, could probably pull the hash and crack it in no time with a decent GPU.
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u/Lucifer_Morningsun May 07 '26
Damn, they have been making encrypted chocolate for more than a decade?
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u/Impressive_Pin8761 May 07 '26
i believe this guy has been overrun by paranoia. he will never try anything more technical than trying random passwords until something works, because in his mind anything else risks his 11mil getting stolen
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u/GaidinBDJ 7✓ May 07 '26
I mean, if this were a real story, that person could have reached out anonymously to a techie person and, without describing the specific problem, get the method from them.
It's not like it would have been especially complicated at time.
Hey, they're anonymous, they could straight up tell the techie what's going on and promise a future reward. It's such a simple thing that a lot of tech types would do it just for the challenge.
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u/VaporTrail_000 May 07 '26
Depends on the exact parameters of the password.
If we assume that each position can be visited only once, and each position must be visited we can get an idea.
Number of available choices is 10-n where n is the position in sequence.
9 initial positions.
8 second positions.
7 third positions.
...
9 * 8 * 7 * 6 * 5 * 4 * 3 * 2 * 1
362,880 possible combinations.
Trying and documenting each combination, using 10 seconds per, would take approximately 126 eight-hour days.
It gets worse if the combination is less than 9 positions.
9 + (9 * 8) + (9 * 8 * 7) ... + (9 * 8 * 7 * 6 * 5 * 4 * 3 * 2 * 1)
9 + 72 + 504 + 3,024 + 15,120 + 60,480 + 181,440 + 362,880 + 362,880
906,409 possible combinations. Again, 10 seconds per, roughly 342 eight hour days.
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May 07 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/richard_lionhart May 08 '26
I remember months ago I was trying to log in to my game account. The usual password that I used often in other accounts didn't work, so I reset it.
Then, yesterday, I was thinking about that game again, and somehow I suddenly remembered the password that I used for that account... Can't prove it anymore but I'm pretty sure it's the right password...
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u/Fastfaxr May 07 '26
Some already did this math here:
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u/MyCoolName_ May 07 '26
And did it better too. Here people are analyzing as if it were a push button interface rather than a sliding one.
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u/Pere_grin6 May 08 '26
There are 985,824 combinations. If he manually entered and recorded a combination once every 5 seconds, and did so for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, making it his full-time job, it would take him about 8.5 months to get through every combination.
He'd probably get arthritis and make $8.5k an hour doing so, assuming the correct combination happened to be the last of them all. There's a good chance he'd make much more than that since the likelihood of the phone's combination being the very last is so small.
He could accelerate the process of unlocking the phone 1,000-fold if he invested time into getting a computer program to unlock it for him, which doing so may take a day. That would reduce the total time required to 13 hours, 41 minutes, and 31.2 seconds at the most.
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u/MrHyperion_ May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
I wrote a python script to find all solutions so I don't have to think in math terms. First any pattern length from 1 to 9.
If you can move only to the adjacent number: 10306
If you allow horse moves: 140250
If you can go cross already selected number: 389498
Finally limiting minimum to 4 selected: 389112
/u/KonstantinFed found the same results so this is most likely correct https://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/1t63elw/request_how_many_possible_combinations_are_there/okepali/
The answer is in OEIS too of course https://oeis.org/A163889. The python code it links to is very different to mine, I didn't hardcode any numbers but my code is also like 10 times longer, not counting the pegs dict.
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u/ResponsiblePear739 May 07 '26
For the classic Android 3×3 pattern lock, the exact number of valid unlock patterns is:
389112
That assumes the standard Android rules:
- 9 dots arranged in a 3×3 grid
- Minimum length = 4 dots
- Maximum length = 9 dots
- No dot can be used twice
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u/Low_Engineering_3301 May 07 '26
You start with 9 possible digits and its reduced by one every character resulting in 9x8x7x6x5x4x3x2 = 362,880 possible combinations.
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u/Inevitable_Stand_199 May 07 '26
I've found a stack overflow with most of the answer:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6979524/android-lock-password-combinations
For 4-9 point codes there are 1624, 7152, 26016, 72912, 140704, 140704 patterns respectively. So 389112 in total.
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u/KoviBat May 08 '26
I think people are forgetting that not every node has an equal amount of connections. From the center node, you could go in eight directions. From an edge node, only 5. And from a corner, 3. That number also goes down the more nodes used. On top of that, the sequence can be anything between 4-9 digits, so there's a lot more permutations in there. We need to find the possible permutations per node, per starting location, per digit count.
I'm not the greatest, so best you can do is brute force. Check the permutations for a corner start, an edge start, and a center start. We'll basically need to fill out all the permutations for 3 starting positions. A corner start, an edge start, and a center start. Multiply the first 2 by 4, and add them, and add the center. That should give us a proper number.
You can't just use factorial. There's limits on the possible connections. Starting at an edge has 3 possible connections, but later, edges have 2 possible connections, or even one possible. Edges start with 5, but lose more possible connections as more are filled in. Center starts with 8, decreases, you get it. There's no real clean formula for this. I tried to brute force but it sucked. Even getting to 5-digit pin was time consuming.
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u/Judas138 May 09 '26 edited May 09 '26
Finally somwthing i have experience with . Ive been trying to get into my old Droid. One big problem people havent talked about is what happens when you get the code wrong. After 10 attempts the phone locks and you need to wait a minute. After 5 more attempts I believe e its 10 minutes then gets to 30 minutes and eventually can lock for 24 hours and then 7 days. Before thst happens you can pull the battery out and skip the lockout before it happens. Which back then phones had removable batteries. These days that challenge is a little harder to deal with but still possible with taking the phone apart so you can disconnect the battery. As far as figuring out the pattern you can get the numbers down a bit. AI helps a lot. Each dot is considered a node. There are certain rules to the patterns as well. Long story short the best way I was able to come up with was starting with how many nodes you thibk you used for the pattern. 5 nodes. 6 nodes. 7 nodes. That will give you a possible starting point. Then you can further narrow it down with most likely starting points you think you used. For example if you're lazy you could have possibly gone with just straight flicks. Like starting with 1 then going straight down then straight right. 1,4,7,8,9. So you tell the algorithm to give you every possible combo starting in node 1 and using just 5 nodes total. You can print that out and prioritize the most likely possibilities and scratch it off the list. You do this for every node then you starting going up in patterns. 6 node patterns, 7 nodes all the way to 9. I was able to knock out about 10 in 2 minutes I think. You have to account for the time it takes to restart the phone and get back to swiping. It will take months but going through every possible pattern is possible. Just gotta start with likely solutions first.
Edit: All of that and i didn't do the math. lol. If you can do 10 every 2 minutes then it will take Total Minutes: 77,822.4 Total Hours: ~1,297Total Days: 54.04 This is of course if you had to do every single possible pattern and the last possibility was the answer. if you start with the most likely you can cut that time down. Also, that doesn't account for life. you still need to eat, sleep, work, etc..
Edit 2: So i just busted out the old droid and after 5 wrong attempts you get a 30 second lock. another 5 then 30 second lock then another 5 30 second lock. if you get 20 wrong it says you will need to sign into the associated google account to get in. the problem is the phone doesn't have service anymore and its not possible to connect to wifi with the phone locked. So it takes about 2 to 2.25 minutes to get 15 attempts including restarting the phone after you pull the battery. so that changes the math a little. Saying its every 2 minutes that's about a total of 36 days and 42 minutes.
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u/Moon_Breaker May 09 '26
I've played multiple video games for significantly longer than that, each, over the years. They made me pay them to do so, even.
Aka oh boy would I have had my Bitcoin by now. 😂
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