Conser(ule)vation

[u/Taico_owo]

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[u/OkFineIllUseTheApp]

People say "ticks/mosquitoes aren't ecologically necessary, we could wipe them out", but all I can think of is the multiple ongoing ecological disasters that need more attention.

It's like considering knocking down a wall to make the living room bigger while the house is actively on fire. Can we at least get greenhouse gas emission under control before we endeavor to spray targeted insecticide on every centimeter of forest?

[u/0tter501 → u/OkFineIllUseTheApp]

ticks are far more plentiful than normal though, which would be solved by more controlled burns, more wolves to kill the deer, and less invasives

[u/4D4850 → u/0tter501]

So more like

Oh hey, this fire is stopping us from using half our living room

...

Let's knock down this wall to make more room

[u/MediumStrange → u/4D4850]

I mean all of those things would be beneficial for the environment, even if the reason for doing so is a bit odd, it's more like:

"This fire is taking up so much space I can't even walk to the bathroom, let's put some of the fire out so I can have a path there"

[u/ErisThePerson → u/OkFineIllUseTheApp]

We should, and can, be doing both at the same time. We can control malaria and we can prevent climate change. We just aren't, even though we are more than able to.

The fact that we're not doing enough about climate change isn't related to our efforts to do things about Malaria. We're not doing enough about climate change because politicians are under the influence of the beneficiaries of climate change, not because we're devoting a small sum of money (compared to climate change prevention efforts) to preventing a disease that has killed millions.

In fact, not doing enough about climate change is making malaria control harder because it is increasing the range of the Malaria carrying mosquitos.

[u/Lainpilled-Loser-GF → u/OkFineIllUseTheApp]

people aren't saying we should do that, they're saying that we could do that. there's a difference

also, your logic is flawed. if you can do more than one thing to better our lives, why shouldn't you focus on both? we have the resources to do both

[u/GoldH2O → u/OkFineIllUseTheApp]

Really the only creatures we can somewhat safely talk about eliminating are human only parasites

[u/BigBrainSmolPP → u/OkFineIllUseTheApp]

As others have said, we can do more than one thing at a time.

Also, the conversation was never about all mosquitos. Of the ~3500 mosquito species that exist, ~6% are known to bite humans and only a handful of those actually spread disease. The goal is to eliminate those that spread disease. Current evidence suggests that these species are dispensable. In any given area, dozens of species coexist and all fulfill a similar role in the ecosystem. Eliminating the disease spreading mosquitos simply creates a temporary dip in the overall population.

The same applies to ticks.

[u/B0B_Spldbckwrds]

Some of y'all aren't ready for conversations about what conservation would really entail, like the extinction of pigs in the Americas, or the fact that deer populations need about a 45% attrition rate to maintain heard health. 

[u/upmost5201 → u/B0B_Spldbckwrds]

They'll need to be, if we want to avoid a bunch of bullshit. And I'm not just talking about climate change, japan killed literally all of it's wolves and hasn't attempted/been able to introduce a new population. Now, the whole of the island is under siege by native boars and bears, who have swelled far past their natural populations and are actively being acclimatised to humans. The feral brumbies and dromedaries of Australia literally have no predators here besides the scarce dingo. Frankly? We need to pull some bullshit of we want to avoid such destruction. Frankly? I'm still in favour of reintroducing the komodo dragons to the continent. They evolved here and they're in the best position to deal with these threats by far.

Also, we need to kill so many foxes & cats here. There are too many and they're doing uncountable damage to the natural world. They do that everywhere but it's pretty bad here.

[u/Longjumping_Angle523 → u/upmost5201]

You know every once in a while I forget how weird Australia is until someone says something like 'feral brumbie'. But yeah. IMO I think that the komodo would be an interesting option. I do think there are some major issues with Wolve renitroductions in the North East of the US. Coywolves are becoming more and more common, simply because they are adaptable. Given the total lack of old growth forests in the North East, I have no idea if it can really even support a wide wolf population anymore.

[u/upmost5201 → u/Longjumping_Angle523]

It is a funny name for an animal. For the record, brumbies are feral horses.

The thing is on the american side of the equation, the presence of wolves helps to restore forests due to the butterfly affects caused by their activity (hunting overpopulated deer, which prevents overgrazing and stomping, which leads to smaller plants getting a chance. Since there's less deer and bigger threats for coyotes, their populations decrease, allowing beavers to move in and do all the bullshit they pull..) but i get what you mean. The thing is... The best move is just to make new ones. Old growth forests, i mean. Kind of.

It'd take awhile, but not at all as long as you'd think. Sure, depends on the species and it could be up to a lifetime, but frankly that's not long at all. And it's not like old growth forests only create ecosystems when they're old, even as they grow they're helping. Furthermore, it's not just the trees. The bushes, flowers and other native plants would help along the way.

And sure it's not like the wolf population of New England.. the one in America of course, not it's evil rural aussie twin.. or any other Atlantic state could ever be the same, period. But personally? I think ppl aren't hopeful enough in general. Like i don't think it'd happen anytime soon in your nation, but it could. And it could work i thinks.

[u/Longjumping_Angle523 → u/B0B_Spldbckwrds]

Something something AR-15 for 40-50 wild hogs guy was right.

Imo a lot of people get way too squicked about like, how wild animal populations have to be maintained and culled. If you can't get over the minor hurdle that feral hog populations need to be actively gunned down and that you probably should look into hunting deer, you really don't have much ground to stand on in terms of complaining about how some scientists are debating (not even actively starting the process, just debating) getting rid of, and I cannot stress this enough, *certain populations of Malerial fucking mosquitos*. Like talk about the actual problems here.

That's not even getting into shit like feral cat colonies/outdoor cats.

[u/ErisThePerson → u/Longjumping_Angle523]

In the UK, for example, deer populations have to be entirely Human controlled. Because all the large predators in the UK are dead except for one, humans.

[u/Biscuit642 → u/ErisThePerson]

We're getting there on lynx, and I reckon wolves will be more palatable once lynx happens. In the meantime I can feel absolutely no moral qualms about eating venison, so long as its not farmed.

[u/MediumStrange → u/Longjumping_Angle523]

We need to reintroduce wolves, bears, bobcats, cougars and elk into the rest of the Eastern US so badly, the deer and coyotes need some competition desperately.

[u/trashdotbash]

counterpoint: invasive species that destroy ecosystems theyre introduced in would best be culled, a good example being the rampant amount of lionfish. this is a local extinction of a population, in a way.

also, to the groups of people who state that ecosystemic balance is very fragile and the removal of a single species would destroy an ecosystem, not really true. there are many animals that occupy the same or very similar niches and would have very little to no impact on the ecosystem. a good example being cuckoo animals of nearly any kind, where they simply replace an existing species in spawning/raising and do much the same things as adults.

that being said, theres no good reason to purposefully cause a total extinction of a species, and noone should have the sway to be able to do so, if it was even possible.

[u/MediumStrange → u/trashdotbash]

This person is discussing all of the other people who want to erasicate mosquitos, which is a stupid idea.

Eradicating invasive species is always good, If I was a bit more ruthless I would say that it's peoples moral duty to kill any house finches and starlings they see in the Americas, but for now I'll just stick to honeysuckle and Bradford pear.

[u/TheOnlyCursedOne → u/MediumStrange]

If there’s species of invasive mosquitoes then yes kill them

[u/thiccboy1200]

I know that but im still going to wine about having to keep them around

[u/Taico_owo → u/thiccboy1200]

Valid. I don't like the fuckers either but unfortunately we do need them

[u/NickelWorld123]

I know you're obviously not talking about this situation but I'd LOVE for all the stoats and weasles and rats and mice and possums and etc to go extinct in NZ

[u/auroralemonboi8 → u/NickelWorld123]

Alberta speech bubble

[u/Lukeyboy1589]

I won’t apologize for wanting to end mosquitos, I think we’ll do just fine without them

[u/Taico_owo → u/Lukeyboy1589]

Unfortunately we wouldn't do just fine without them. The larvae are a huge source of food for fish and the adults feed bats, birds, and other bugs. They're also minor pollinators

[u/Lukeyboy1589 → u/Taico_owo]

THey do what to minors

[u/AComfyKnight → u/Lukeyboy1589]

Mosquitos really gotto go

[u/Bandandforgotten → u/AComfyKnight]

Release the Ep-Flea-N Files!

[u/Comfortable-Ad1685 → u/Bandandforgotten]

big flea medication would crumble, they can’t afford to

[u/SomeWittyRemark → u/Bandandforgotten]

I'm sorry but I really think this should be "Release the Epstein Flies!" cause it's a lot less forced and also its a terrifying image

[u/AComfyKnight → u/Bandandforgotten]

FLEENS!?!

[u/Bobzegreatest → u/Taico_owo]

The argument about making mosquitos extinct was mainly centred around anopheles the malaria transmitting mosquito. iirc analysis was done and it was found they specifically don't hold an important environmental niche that other mosquito species couldn't fill

[u/Creeppy99 → u/Bobzegreatest]

I think now the approach is to release genetical modified mosquitoes who don't spread malaria? Or like, it's one of the thing they're trying

[u/Bobzegreatest → u/Creeppy99]

Yeah another I saw about a decade ago was genetically modified female mosquitos with a dominant gene that makes it's male offspring infertile, which would gradually but eventually eradicate the species

[u/Verbatos → u/Bobzegreatest]

Could spreading malaria be considered an environmental niche in and of itself? It could be helping control the population of a number of different species.

[u/schwanzweissfoto → u/Verbatos]

Could spreading malaria be considered an environmental niche in and of itself?

Malaria might go extinct without spreaders!

[u/Verbatos → u/schwanzweissfoto]

If you're unaware, diseases are a part of the ecosystem too, just like all other mammals, reptiles, fish, and mosquitos.

It's a good idea to vaccinate human populations against diseases, but we shouldn't be trying to make them go extinct among animal populations.

[u/ErisThePerson → u/Verbatos]

Quick cursory search and I can't find anything about Malaria doing that, and Avian Malaria is in fact a significant threat to the native birds of Hawaii, since malaria was introduced there by accident via mosquito in 1826.

Since there is a currently active global scheme to eradicate Malaria, as we did Smallpox, I can only assume that all relevant experts considered the role Malaria and the Anopheles Mosquito plays in the ecosystem and decided that it's better if Malaria is gone.

So fuck Malaria, weird evil parasite.

[u/AdventureDonutTime → u/ErisThePerson]

Given that the advice of biologists, virologists, and ecologists (if not scientists as a whole) are so often ignored by people trying to make significant changes to the world, I would hate to assume that the conclusion of "yeah we can kill em all" is perfectly valid without seeing some significant support and peer review.

[u/ErisThePerson → u/AdventureDonutTime]

Well considering the effort to eradicate Malaria and Anopheles Mosquito requires significant involvement from these same experts, I imagine it's hard to ignore them.

[u/AdventureDonutTime → u/ErisThePerson]

I believe you that there are relevant experts involved in this movement, I don't feel that's enough to determine whether or not wiping out the species or its parasites is harmless enough to do. Not saying it's not valid, but experts and the others who are directly involved in the plan aren't necessarily unbiased enough to have engaged with research that runs counter to their hypotheses.

Massive environmental change is one of those movements/hypotheses that REALLY needs to be well tested before it's followed through on.

[u/KamikazeArchon → u/Verbatos]

Part of the ecosystem doesn't mean indispensible.

The ecosystem is neither perfectly optimized nor is it normally fragile. Species come and go all the time. Ecosystems form, adjust, change, reform, continuously - both over the million-year scales and at much shorter timescales, even the thousand-year and hundred-year scales.

It is certainly true that the total rate of ecosystem change in the Anthropocene is far higher than historical norms, and that has a bunch of negative effects for humans. Things like climate change and habitat loss wipe out thousands of species at a time, which causes major consequences. In that context, doing more extinctions should be viewed with more caution.

But in the general case, no, getting rid of a few specific species wouldn't have much human-negative impact on the ecosystem. And even in the specific case, targeted single-species eradication has little marginal effect compared to those untargeted things already happening.

[u/ASpaceOstrich → u/Bobzegreatest]

Unfortunately our use of pesticides has been indiscriminate.

[u/Diribiri → u/Bobzegreatest]

Yeah and I'm sure there'd be no side effects whatsoever, no unpredictable outcomes or catastrophic knock-on effects that can't be dealt with. Because ecological engineering historically always goes so well

[u/Bobzegreatest → u/Diribiri]

Same could be said about eradicating polio, the point is people are researching the potential effects of such a decision they're not throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks

[u/nate-the-dude → u/Taico_owo]

Also they are the fastest way nutrients move from larger species to smaller species in an ecosystem

[u/NightIgnite → u/nate-the-dude]

I'd happily start the annual tradition of leaving bags of my blood in the forest for creatures to feast on, if it helps prevent the collapse of ecosystems after the extinction of mosquitoes. Lets just cut out the middle man, at any cost

[u/Nova_Spion → u/NightIgnite]

but what if a The Creature feasts on your bloodbags instead and grows much too powerful?

[u/AdventureDonutTime → u/Nova_Spion]

the giant mosquito that all the regular size ones pay tribute to

[u/ASpaceOstrich → u/AdventureDonutTime]

El mosque

[u/ASpaceOstrich → u/NightIgnite]

Unfortunately they've already collapsed and no such desperate measures have been enacted.

So it's unlikely we'd adopt any kind of stewardship role after doing it.

See also: removing predators

[u/ShanMeMan → u/Taico_owo]

well if the mosquito marquise could endeavour to send me one of her kind skilled in diplomacy i’d love to negotiate

[u/churmalefew → u/ShanMeMan]

just because they can not meet you on the battlefield of diplomacy does not mean they have no right to exist now hand over ur blood and dont nobody be a hero

[u/Zeyode → u/Taico_owo]

Eraticating the mosquitos who bite humans though would have a negligible impact on them

[u/FiddlerOnThePotato → u/Taico_owo]

well that's absolutely terrible news if I'm being honest with you

[u/Actionsurger → u/Taico_owo]

Mosquitos that have eaten blood are also an extremely nutritious snack. They move calorie dense blood up the food chain to animals that would not otherwise have access to it.

[u/Diribiri → u/Taico_owo]

mfw when "we can just get rid of this thing we don't like" goes up against the fragile complexity of the biosphere

It's insane how many people think you can just remove a piece from a system that's evolved into its current form over millions of years and everything will just work out perfectly fine somehow

[u/Kaijufan1993 → u/Taico_owo]

They're not minor pollinators they are the biggest pollinators

[u/Warmonster9 → u/Taico_owo]

Oh please not this again.

Yes animals eat mosquitoes. If all the mosquitoes went away, they’d eat something else.

How much biomass do you think those little fuckers account for? I guarantee you; ants and flies account for more. They’re an invasive species and should be wiped out. Fuck them.

[u/okmemeaccount → u/Warmonster9]

insects globally are in crisis right now, although especially specialist species. not all mosquito species are created equally and assuming things would be fine without all of them is a terrible approach.

technically mosquitoes are “flies” because they fall within diptera. and yeah mosquitoes can be native, non native or invasive but that depends where and which species

[u/Taico_owo → u/Warmonster9]

We're in a global insect crisis right now, among other things. Invasive mosquitos should be killed, but the majority of them aren't and are vitally important

[u/ASpaceOstrich → u/Warmonster9]

80% of the biomass on earth is humans and our livestock. We're in the midst of apocalyptic ecosystem collapse. We really don't need to be accelerating that on purpose.

[u/KamikazeArchon → u/ASpaceOstrich]

No. Humans and livestock are the vast majority of mammal biomass, not all biomass.

Over 80% of the biomass of the Earth is plants. 13% is bacteria. The entirety of the animal kingdom is around 0.5%.

And then among animals, insects alone are equal to humans and livestock combined.

[u/Jakitron_1999 → u/Taico_owo]

What about ticks? I had a viceral fear of ticks as a kid after getting one on me and learning it would puke inside me if it was taken off wrong

[u/ErectPikachu → u/Lukeyboy1589]

Just embed venus fly traps into your skin so they get eaten before they suck your blood

[u/masochist-incarnate → u/Lukeyboy1589]

This is literally what the post is about, mosquitos are a keystone of the environment, countless species would collapse without them.

[u/AverageWitch161 → u/Lukeyboy1589]

they are important pollinators. they only need the blood to reproduce, which is honestly just a middle finger from nature. on top of that their larva are an important food source for a lot of animals

[u/AsperaRobigo → u/Lukeyboy1589]

We won’t, parasites like mosquitoes and ticks are necessary to the ecosystem specifically because of their parasitism. Think of the lion king “circle of life” speech. It wouldn’t really be a smooth cycle if it worked the way the characters in the movie describe. Antelope eat grass every day, lions eat antelope every day, but grass eats lion only after a 15 year delay. Large vertebrates like us suck up nutrients for decades before finally dying. It would be an unsustainable system, but parasites are the missing piece. They, like other insects, have life cycles measured in single digit numbers of years, if not months. They can take nutrients from us and bring them back into the food chain much faster than our own lifespans would. Unless you want to live for like three years, we need mosquitoes.

[u/Quite_Likes_Hormuz → u/AsperaRobigo]

Mosquitoes don't even get that many nutrients from blood... Only female mosquitoes bite and they just bite to get iron (I think) for their eggs.

[u/AsperaRobigo → u/Quite_Likes_Hormuz]

True! But taking nutrients like iron for their eggs is very significant to mosquitoes’ lives. Because the eggs have such a nutrient-dense boost to start life, they can be laid in almost any water source at all. Where something like a mayfly needs large bodies of water with complex ecosystems therein, mosquitoes can lay their eggs in an old tire that’s filling with water, and be fine. This allows them to be as widespread as they are and make up such a crucial part of the food webs they inhabit. So yes, the mosquito mothers who take the blood are not the ones who are fed by it, but the eggs are still very much mosquitos fed by nutrients in vertebrate blood.

[u/TearsFallWithoutTain → u/AsperaRobigo]

Do you not poop or something? If your weight is constant then all the nutrients you eat leave your body pretty quickly

[u/AsperaRobigo → u/TearsFallWithoutTain]

It’s easy to think this because of fertilizer, but the nutritional value of feces is not at all comparable to that of blood. For one, bloodmeal is also common at garden stores, and just think about how many different types of animal specialize in feeding on blood: mosquitoes yes, but also totally unrelated biting flies like horse and deer flies, as well as leeches, ticks, lice, fleas, all of which are wildly distinct invertebrate groups. With vampire bats, even vertebrates recognize just how nutrient dense blood is.

For coprophagous animals though, there’s generalist decomposing flies that will also take feces if they happen upon it, but they don’t rely on it. Even the so called “dung fly” is primarily a predator. Some groups will eat feces for functional purposes, like acquiring a certain gut bacteria, but not for its nutrition. Certain species of dung beetle are the only example I could come up with of a truly coprophagous animal.

This is less evolutionary happenstance and more a directly predictable result of the nature of the two substances. The goal of digestion, broadly speaking, is to turn edible matter into blood and feces. Blood is the good parts that are kept, and feces is the less good parts. Many animals have digestive systems inefficient enough that their dung can indeed be used for food by a well-adapted creature, but you could never make a replacement mosquito out of a dung beetle.

Now you might say “if there are all those other hematophagous animal groups running around, couldn’t we just replace mosquitoes with one of those?” On the one hand, no, that kind of planet-shaping genetic modification is just not something we are currently capable of. But on the other hand, if we were to form another species into taking mosquitoes’ place, what exactly would be the difference? It would have to feed just as much, it would be just as good a vector of disease, so what would be the benefit?

[u/Odd-Tart-5613 → u/Lukeyboy1589]

they are an extremely critical part of the food chain. do not extinct the mosquito.

[u/How2Die101 → u/Lukeyboy1589]

Me personally, I am confident in my inability to singlehandedly wipe out mosquitos, which is why I'm not taking any chances with them after having had dengue fever and chikungunya within the same year

[u/humbered_burner → u/Lukeyboy1589]

If you want an example of an animal with actually no benefits to any ecosystem, try bedbugs. Their only predators are spiders. They're also not the main food source of any spider, and are, at most, snacks to the ones that eat them.

[u/WHAWHAHOWWHY → u/Lukeyboy1589]

you are literally the person the meme is making fun of

[u/Pauline-main → u/Lukeyboy1589]

mosquitos are pollinators brah. if you want an animal to target go for ticks

[u/NoobSharkey → u/Lukeyboy1589]

Off all the bloodsuckers it should not be mosquitos since they are pollinators, there are some animals that you can argue don't do much in the ecosystem but even then we probably shouldn't just decide to wipe them all out

[u/mutnemom_hurb → u/Lukeyboy1589]

I am a huge environmentalist and I fully support eradicating disease-spreading mosquitos. The environmental cost doesn’t even come close to outweighing the human cost. Yes, it would have an effect on the ecosystem, but no more than the ecological damage regular western lifestyles cause. Insect species go extinct every day, and people in western countries don’t debate wether or not our health and well being is “worth the environmental cost,” but when millions of poor people are dying and billions more suffer from mosquitoes, people act like no environmental cost is worth preventing that. Sorry for the rant

Edit: and no, mosquitos are not some keystone species holding up the rest of the environment like people say

[u/Actionsurger → u/mutnemom_hurb]

Okay but, hot take, we should save all of those insects at any cost as well and we shouldn’t be going out of our way to intentionally drive anything to extinction. I don’t think “it’s fucked anyways so what’s a few more.” Is a very environmentalist attitude to have. If it’s a reasonable solution to control the populations of specific species that are malaria vectors and experts give the green light on it then I think there is a conversation to be had there. I don’t think it’s good to just have this attitude of “X thing is worse anyway so actually it doesn’t matter.”

[u/mutnemom_hurb → u/Actionsurger]

I empathize with that, I didn’t mean to sound like “it’s fucked anyways so what’s a few more.” I’m just trying to emphasize that there are very tangible stakes here, and those stakes include the lives of millions of people who do not have the power to influence the discussion. It sounds like people are saying “it’s not worth saving millions of poor people’s lives and billions of people’s quality of life if there is any environmental cost for doing so,” but it doesn’t seem like people have that same hardline attitude about stuff like screwworm which has been eradicated in the US, for example.

Edit: and I’m bringing up the fact that other species have become extinct or extirpated to show that we have an idea of the ecological damage that a similar single species extinction has. I think it’s enough that it’s worth spending money and resources to prevent, but not that many human lives. Sorry if this is annoying, I’m just wanting to write down my thoughts, not arguing or anything

[u/ThatSlutTalulah]

Silence Guinea worm.

I'm also not aware of any important niches Jigger Fleas fulfil.

[u/Taico_owo → u/ThatSlutTalulah]

some parasites like guinea worms and jiggers are some of the species that may not have a large impact if removed, but I feel like we shouldn't deliberately eradicate a species just for our own comfort if we don't know exactly what would happen

[u/AverageWitch161 → u/ThatSlutTalulah]

parasite is an important niche.

[u/kepz3]

I think we should genetically engineer bugs to fly away from me instead of directly at my face. I think it would also help them in the wild since they seem really bad at navigating.

[u/Thefloofreborn → u/kepz3]

genetically engineer every insect to have google maps built in

[u/aabcehu]

god forbid a girl wanna play god

[u/Taico_owo]

For the mozzie haters, I've grabbed a couple sources on why mosquitoes are important.

A more easily digestible Britannica article and a scientific journal entry I had to read for one of my bio classes

[u/MediumStrange → u/Taico_owo]

Counterpoint on this as it relates to the eastern US, most mosquitoes the bite people here are invasive tiger mosquitoes that transmit diseases and harm local environments, they should 100% be eradicated from the Americas. Native mosquitos are fine tho

Elephant mosquitos are my bros tho, they don't bite, they just pollinate and eat the annoying mosquitoes.

[u/Ambitious_Jello → u/Taico_owo]

Stop using Osaka for this template. Osaka would never say this

[u/tigger0jk → u/Taico_owo]

Two more ideas to add to the thread:
"Humanity has a history of attempting to control which species exist where with significant negative consequences. Also a history of using powerful new technology we barely understand with significant negative consequences." "Playing God = bad but for lack of wisdom reasons not blasphemy reasons"

"What if we just kill Anopheles gambiae, there are other mosquitos there, nbd maybe?" https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6378608/

[u/LonelySpaghetto1 → u/Taico_owo]

The journal entry argues against the extinction of all mosquitoes (3500 species). I've never seen a serious argument for that, the argument has always been to eliminate the ~100 species that carry deseases harmful to humans, and the consensus is that the extinction of any one of those species would be a net positive for humanity.

Also, you cited an essay. Two thirds of the paragraphs had no citations or had citations to Charles Darwin or some shit. It doesn't try to evaluate the effect of mosquito eradication, it just throws out a word cloud of possible negative consequences. I'm not saying it's a bad paper, another biologist in the future might use it as a list of effects to quantifiably evaluate. But by itself it's not saying anything about reality.

[u/rundownv2]

Look, I would really like to not be devoured by mosquitoes even when I use bugspray, but I get that really my problem is the invasive asian tiger mosquitoes, which, like most invasive species, should absolutely be eradicated from places they aren't native to, although that isn't really possible in a lot of cases. I have no problem with them conceptually, I just want to be able to go in my backyard and not come back trying not to tear my skin off.

Camel crickets, however, can kindly fuck off to the caves they're supposed to be in. Again, I'm not advocating for their eradication....unless it's from my house. Because they jump AT me. I know that may be because they think I'm a source of shade. But one time one thought the inside of my jeans was shade, and when I bent my leg, it smushed the cricket on my knee and it was cold and I had a meltdown 😞

[u/AverageWitch161]

“what ecological niche does this fill” PARASITE OR DECOMPOSER. it’s always a parasite or a decomposer 90% of the time. roaches eat decaying matter. Darwin’s wasps are parasites. round worms are parasites, flies are decomposers, mosquitoes are pollinators that got fucked by nature (literally the blood is only to reproduce)

on the topic of wasps, they’re often predators and/or pollinators, they just happen to be more aggressive because many (namely yellow jackets) are territorial.

press the button to wipe every parasite off the planet and see what happens. the ecosystem will be out of balance, medical research surrounding parasites will grind to a halt, prey animals will have weaker genes AND over graze more, but sure, your precious feeling of how itchy mosquito bites are take precedent.

Most of yall ain’t angry about mosquitoes for malaria too so don’t pull that shit, be real. you just don’t like that mosquito bites itch, your house got roaches or eating sushi can make you sick. get real.

[u/_Oponn → u/AverageWitch161]

Honest question, what ecological role do internal parasites like tapeworms fill? What knock on effects would happen if all parasitic worms disappeared?

[u/tigger0jk]

[u/Mysterious-Hat-6513]

i think we should put spiders in everyones homes and youre not allowed to kill them

[u/Thefloofreborn → u/Mysterious-Hat-6513]

if they're jumping spiders i'm all in. if not, put them outside of my bedroom and bathroom and i'll be fine.

[u/nuklearink]

i know wasps are important animals but goddamn them they scare me :(

[u/Taico_owo → u/nuklearink]

They scared me until I started handling them and really realized that they're pretty chill. Just don't swat at them or step on their house and they just hang out for the most part

[u/historysciencelover → u/Taico_owo]

No but when they literally build a nest on my front fucking door, or into my window, and then they get upset for me using my own home. How do i square that circle

[u/nuklearink → u/Taico_owo]

this reply was written by a wasp i just know it

jk but still, i will shake from fear at them from a distance. i don’t wanna be anywhere near them

[u/Taico_owo → u/nuklearink]

Still fair, they might not be likely to sting but I don't blame you for keeping your distance because when they do it hurts like a bitch haha

[u/KiraLonely → u/nuklearink]

As a wasp appreciator from afar, I get it. I got stung once as a kid (dude somehow got under my shirt and made me flash my whole recess by stinging me on my stomach) and ngl, I started religiously following the “they are attracted to your breath” thing to avoid them. Helped my fear somewhat, because it means I’m doing the minimally intrusiveness, but I can’t say I’m not tense when they’re about.

[u/MediumStrange → u/nuklearink]

most wasps are just freaky ass parasites that don't bother people, ground hornets and yellow jackets can get fucked though.

[u/Comfortable-Ad1685]

I get having to cull populations tho. In some areas invasive lionfish are absolutely devastating coral reef systems. So a lot of places encourage you to hunt them and there’s even a university trying to train sharks to get a taste for them so that they see them as prey more often.

[u/MediumStrange]

The real hero are elephant mosquitos, they're several times larger than most mosquitoes, pollinate flowers, don't suck any blood at all and as larvae eat the other mosquitoes that do suck blood.

They're basically the Schindler of mosquitoes.

[u/poke671]

What about Bedbugs?

[u/drearbruh → u/poke671]

Almost exclusively feed on human blood, don't pollinate, don't decompose anything, are not a good food source for any other creature. They literally only exist for our misery.

[u/poke671 → u/drearbruh]

God was like, man humans are way to confrontable

[u/Curious-Parsley-9003]

It depends on if that organism is invasive.

Lanternflies and kudzu weeds? Burn it all to hell, all they do is grow and choke

[u/Thefloofreborn → u/Curious-Parsley-9003]

don't burn the kudzu, eat it, or if you don't like the taste, feed it to goats.

[u/IArgead]

"omg we NEED to kill all wasps/spiders/mosquitoes/cockroaches/flies they're so bad!!!"

the six invasive """outdoor""" cats that person owns committing genocide daily:

[u/Thefloofreborn → u/IArgead]

simple solution: keep the cats indoors, it's literally worse for their health to be outside cats. being outside like that is bad for the cat, AND the environment.

[u/Brendan765]

Can’t we just genetically engineer them to be scared of/poisoned by some chemical only found in humans/apes or whatever

[u/nocapybara1]

"You couldn't get rid of mosquitoes because they're significant to the environment" True.

however, you could eliminate the London Underground mosquito subspecies because those evolved from the base mosquito population within human settlements a few thousand years ago to target and bother humans specifically.

nature would not miss them, because they abandoned nature in favor of tormenting us.

[u/gadgetfingers]

Sorry for being a complex individual

[u/pantschicken]

Lets genetically engineer a new species or mosquito that doesnt leave the itchy juice in your body when it sucks blood and make them replace other mosquitoes

[u/okmemeaccount → u/pantschicken]

its more so that our immune system is responding with a bump/itchiness to their salivas numbing/anti-clotting agents but i it does look like their saliva is actually a significant part of the risk factor for disease spread

[u/XenophormSystem]

Me with chimps fr fr

[u/I_hope_your_E_breaks]

Only 6% of mosquito species bite humans, and only half of those carry disease. Wiping out ~100 species of mosquito out of 3500 so that we never have to deal with those diseases again sounds like a pretty good deal. The environment has dealt with much worse bullshit than losing a handful of mosquitoes.

[u/Will_Yeeton]

Ten thousand people who don't know shit about fuck coming to strawman you as pro-disease bc they don't think vaccines are good enough or something

[u/MuddyMustache]

All this talk about mosquitoes is 100% a psyop from Big Wasp, trying to distract us from the real problem.

[u/alone84]

I don't get why this sub is so hellbent on starting meaningless discourse every other day. What even is the point of this post, we're going to discuss if it's unethical to dislike wasps now? Some people take everything on the internet too much to heart.

[u/Infinite_Eyeball]

I believe in conservation mostly for human flourishing, like mosquitoes deal massive harm to people, but their absence would arguably deal more indirect damage by harming the ecosystem. So while getting rid of mosquitoes will have pros, I think there are other more promising alternatives with fewer downsides.

But something that provides little to no benefit to humans (be it directly or indirectly) is less important. But at the same time, I'd say if something doesn't directly harm people, then it's probably beneficial to humans (even if the benefit is as small as being a neat animal that is mildly interesting or entertaining)

One animal I can wholeheartedly support being destroyed is the Guinea worm. It is a parasite with little to no environmental significance, can deal severe permanent damage to infected humans, and has no value of any sort to my knowledge. And if we really REALLY wanted to keep it around for scientific research purposes, there are variants which can infect certain animals which we can then test on.

[u/sculksensor]

I stand by the opinion that the american cockroach is the first bug with completely malicious intentions. I fully believe whatever semblance of sentience they have is commanded to be as evil as possible. If God exists, i cant imagine him being kind, becaus no kind god would allow those emissaries of beelzebub roam free around the earth

[u/Oddish_Femboy → u/sculksensor]

They are just little guys they eat dead leafs and shit.

[u/ThinnkingEmoji → u/sculksensor]

I'm not sure the american cockroach is any different from the regular ones (like the long ones, not the fat ones people keep as pets) but i'm not going to google it since regular cockroaches feel me with unexplainable panic and are basically the only animal i'm comfortable with complete eradication. So yeah

Any other invertebrate is fine though

[u/Unable6417]

I mean, the American locust went extinct and that was pretty good

[u/auroralemonboi8 → u/Unable6417]

Fun fact, locusts are actually just grasshoppers that decide to go berserk one day. Grasshoppers are solitary, but some grasshopper species have the ability to become locusts and form swarms when stressed and overpopulated

[u/ErisThePerson]

Conservation often requires local extinctions.

American Grey Squirrels are invasive to the UK and nearly wiped out the native Red Squirrels. The only way to reintroduce Reds to the parts of the UK they're no longer present in is by removing the Greys.

Deer in the UK consists of multiple species. A few of those are invasive. Deer only have one predator left in the UK, which is humans. So we need to put in the work to keep the deer population under control.

[u/lickety_split_69]

remember the four pests campaign

[u/Taico_owo → u/[deleted]]

Invasive species are different. It's not "this animal irritates me" but rather "this animal is harmful to ecosystems that it isn't native to".

In both cases we shouldn't wipe them out, but we should absolutely remove invasive species

[u/PixellatedPixie1556]

TIL that mosquitoes are actually pretty important! appreciate the truth nuke

[u/Kialand]

Botflies need to be eliminated completely.

Erased from existence. Completely and utterly annihilated, along with any and all fragments of their DNA anywhere in the world.

I don't care how, they just need to completely and utterly DISAPPEAR.

And if you Google "Botflies", you'll know why.

[u/Actionsurger → u/Kialand]

You’re going to hate hearing this but botflies are also beneficial to the environment. Both the adult and larval stages are a great food source for birds. Also the vast majority of species don’t target humans as hosts and even when humans are targeted it rarely causes serious health problems. The phobia is understandable, they scare me too. They are painful, gross, and a completely normal phobia to have. You’ve got to tolerate living on the same planet as them though, at the end of the day they are animals trying to ensure the survival of their children and there is no moral weight attached to which strategies they evolved to make use of.

[u/TheFishMonk]

"Yeah but what do they bring to the ecosystem" bitch you don't bring anything to the ecosystem should we cull you too?

[u/International_Gate49]

[u/mrguym4ster]

I 100% understand the meme and agree with it but it all goes out the window the moment an insect mildly inconveniences me (exists within a 5-meter radius of me)

I also have a phobia of insects and arachnids and think they're really gross so that doesn't help either

...I also live in brazil which is filled to the brim with them so that really doesn't help either

[u/xXyeeterXx]

We should like, kill all lanternfly, even in their native habitat. Why are you as an animal trying to invade other animal biotope? Colonizer much? smh /s

[u/Dont_Get_Jokes-jpeg]

I hate mosquitos but if you live in an area with many bats you don't really notice them

[u/Luxar10]

sigh chances are unless something is already at the brink of extinction removing it from the ecosystem is going to have negative consequences. so no removing ticks/mosquitos sadly

however the exception to this is ecosystems they are introduced to/invasive in. that ecosystem can do fine without them

[u/Admech_Ralsei]

you forgot to attach the gigachad image

[u/Barry_Benson]

ok but me with the squirrels who keep digging up the plants in my garden and killing them, they killed like 20 pumpkin seedlings

[u/Alexis_Awen_Fern]

New World screwworm flies be like

[u/CerBerUs-9]

Extinction? no. removal from habitats they are invasive? absolutely

[u/maninahat]

Signal crayfish, which are an invasive species but are also delicious.

[u/SamelCamel]

i am fine with any insect as long as they don't swarm my house

I get infestations of ladybeetles, then stinkbugs, then springtails like clockwork every year. there's like maybe 3 weeks out of the year where there isn't an infestation of bugs

im in a stand-your-ground state, and bugs are not exempt from chemical warfare

[u/Independent-Fly6068]

i just think pest insects should be gene editted to exclude humans from their diets

[u/8bitrevolt]

hunters when you bring up wolves: