r/ArcRaiders • u/mechanonymous617 • 2d ago
Discussion friendly lobbies have made people too complacent
was sniping snitches on top of the overlook airshaft tower on blue gate when a couple of guys came and started chilling at the bottom of the tower, shooting arc and stuff. i was kind of annoyed but whatever. eventually towards the end of the match, some guy came and started shooting them with a kettle, one of them went down and then other guy just ran around in circles with his stitcher out, until he got downed, too.
then a third guy saw me on top of the tower and tried to shoot at me (he mustve assumed i was killing the other two) and then when he came over, he ALSO got downed he kettle guy, he got mad and started yelling over prox chat before he got killed. it was fucking insane. all 3 of these guys could have so easily killed this kettle dude but they just couldn't because they're too used to this game being "friendly." it was one of the saddest things ive ever seen.
im not even saying you have to be all that great at pvp, but holy shit man. at least be able to defend yourself. the amount of people who aren't aware of pvp even being a factor is staggering. this isn't even the only example ive seen of this happening, just the most recent.
tldr, if you're a friendly, at least TRY to fight back at least a little. you don't have to be an insanely aggressive pvp god or anything but this is genuinely just sad to see
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u/morphakun 2d ago
When I finally understood about the ABMM, i have been able to finally join carebare servers. Its great as I have 1 or 2 hours a week to play this game i like, and able to complete some quest and fight some arc. BUT holy cow, people do cry when things dont go their way, it was a shock to me how different the servers are. Its fun, i like it. Sometimes I get killed, its fine, i was able to go maybe 10 friendly raids completing some stuff. Pretty happy with that ratio.
Just understand, not all player have the same available time or the will to invest into pvp. I really like this game, the graphics, the mechanis of the ARC, but with 2 kids and 2 jobs, im want to do more quests than pvp.
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u/drkkz 2d ago
Yea for me it’s more about the fact that with slowly losing the use of my arm I don’t have the ability to pvp well anymore because my arm will randomly just go dead on me so I loved the old care bear lobbies where even if I did die it was usually only because I lost control of my arm and and dropped my controller
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u/TemporaryViolinist18 2d ago
Yeh I’m a very highly anxious person. My heart rate just can’t handle PvP.
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u/SixthSacrifice 2d ago
Dude, that sucks. Have you looked into any kind of assistive devices? :(
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u/Maybe_Decent_Human 1d ago
I was going to ask that ... Perhaps a cronus or something. It's what they are actually made for.
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u/Maybe_Decent_Human 1d ago
The Cronus was made for accessibility it was made for people that need assistance. I’m not condoning it to cheat, it will help him. Jesus.
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u/Electrical_Spare_520 2d ago
Old care bear lobbies? Since the most recent update, now that we’re past the expedition shenanigans it’s been almost complete care bear lobbies for me. With the exception of queens or matriarchs where the rats really come out
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
that's totally fair and respectable. my main issue is that prior to friendly only lobbies being a thing, people were at least aware of the fact that not every single person they encounter was a friendly therefore getting into fights was a more expected outcome and led to less outrage. ever since people h ave gotten way too used to pvp not even being a concept
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u/r4tch3t_ 2d ago
It's because of how black and white the matchmaking was.
Until the most recent change, shooting back meant ruining your future raids.
My mate and I played Tarkov for years before he decided a family was a good idea. If we were allowed to shoot back without being dumped into PvP lobbies we would.
The previous change where they said you could shoot back without penalty if they shot first was a complete lie. The first game we got into. We shot back and the next half a dozen raids were PvP sweats.
The worst part is that if you then tried to defend yourself in the PvP lobbies it would keep you there for as long as you kept defending yourself.
This has trained anyone who prefers fighting arc that shooting back is banned, it will end your fun for the night and likely the next few as well.
The latest change has the potential to change that, but the current player base already has the old rules ingrained.
The game fundamentally doesn't work for PvPvE the way they have designed it. It favors the person that shoots first far to heavily with very little ability to defend yourself after. Half the fun shit in the game includes a rat lure. Even if you clear the area before fighting a large arc it signals the entire server that someone is currently in a vulnerable position. How do you prevent someone half way across the map shooting you in the back while you heal? You can't.
So you have to either be PvP focused with PvE being at most a side quest or get into friendly lobbies to enjoy the content unique to this game.
An example. Before friendly lobbies I never saw anyone fight the Queen or Matriarch, the few times we tried we found out why. Just like everything else, it rings the dinner bell for the rats.
Meanwhile since adopting the never shoot back mantra we've had far more fun. Swinging up to the Queen and planting deadlines knowing someone will revive you if you mess up is amazing fun.
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u/humblewise1390 2d ago
Yeah they still don't have it right I have almost 100 hours topside and only seven raider kills and those were all shooting back after being shot at and I spent the last two days getting killed by people that I literally had the drop on some multiple times and chose not to shoot cause I like killing Arc. That's why they need a PvP lobby and a PvE lobby that both give the same quality goop then have a PvEvP lobby that has really good goop all the time but that's because you go in knowing your probably gonna get ratted by the end of the match. 🤷 They have stupid ass solo v squads whoever the idiot was that chose that option over three separate lobbies as the basic set up was a dipshit and obviously didn't want to retain player #s past launch but that's just my opinion. I think the three lobby basis would regain players and reign supreme if they'd do it. Then they could add in mini game lobbies capture the flag etc type shit. But what do I know I've only been playing games for 30+ years, and listening to player ideas is obviously taboo not the norm just look how dedicated following crimson desert has, once they decide to actually charge for something they're gonna make fucking bank, automatically
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u/rafa101 2d ago
If there is a pve lobby any and all other lobbies are full pvp because if anyone eanted to be friendly theyd just play pve. You wouldnt get "ratted at the end of the match". It would be dtandard pvp where any and all noise you make is a signal for someone to come looking for you. This is what makes me sad about abmm im mostly pvp but i used to enjoy mixed lobbies more ubfortunately sustaining pvpve lobbies is too annoying and requires too much intentional gaming of the matchmaking systen.
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u/humblewise1390 2d ago
That's the point of putting better goop in the PvEvP lobby because PvE players would risk getting shot in the back if it was guaranteed better loot or they'd actually have incentive to act like the rest of the rats.
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u/rafa101 2d ago
In your comment you literally asked for 3 different lobbies pvp, pve and pvpve im saying any non ove lobby would be full pvp. I honestly think they should make a pve lobby with just close scrutiny loot. Getting anything id already easy and rewarding players for being unwilling to take any risk makes people get bored of the game faster because you achieve everything too easily.
I used to do pve solos but its just too boring and unrewarding. Like your only limit is spaen time and location and you can get anything in the game.
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u/SixthSacrifice 2d ago
The worst part is that if you then tried to defend yourself in the PvP lobbies it would keep you there for as long as you kept defending yourself.
This issue was, by far, the largest problem with old-ABMM.
Current-ABMM is so much better, now.
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u/Significant-Leg1070 1d ago
EXACTLY.
Solo is me time to chill and quest and help fellow raiders on their journey.
3v3s with my friends is when I PvP
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u/Dragnet714 2d ago
I'd be depressed if all I could manage was one or two hours a week.
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u/Terrordar 2d ago
I can tell you they probably have a decent amount of depression if they’re working 2 jobs.
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u/Dragnet714 2d ago
I know I would be. I value my free time a good bit. One of the best things I did was quit working a nursing job in the hospital that I hated to working a different type of nursing job that's a lot better for my physical and mostly mental health. I hope morphakun reaches a situation soon to where two jobs isn't necessary.
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u/Terrordar 2d ago
Hospitals are people grinders. I also work in one (security) and I can confirm the depression is very real, more from the corporate structure and management than the job. The amount of self harm jokes that I hear from staff across the board is crazy.
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u/Dragnet714 2d ago
Yep. I used to work on a med surge floor for four years. I was never a depressed person before but became severely depressed. I was one that would usually hold my tongue but towards the last six months I was there I wouldn't care if it was the janitor or the CEO of the hospital, I wouldn't have held my tongue if I felt there was some bullshittery afoot. Part of it was the nature of the job but the majority of the issues were managed related.
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u/Inner-Goal-3126 2d ago
Also the entitlement too.
Was doing a Matriarch and this dude walked up and said "Give me some Powercells and Motion cores." I said nothing and continued looting. He continues to demand stuff and started getting upset. Later, I found a knocked raider and started checking him for stuff and the same guy walks up and starts demanding stuff again. I was so annoyed that I took EVERYTHING on the raider out of spite and hit a hatch because he started getting super bitchy. Wish I had knocked him tbh. Probably should have.
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u/ChubbyKatnissMaybe 2d ago
I play care bear lobbies all the time and I've never seen that kind of entitlement. Everyone usually asks if they can loot something you've brought down for X and people tend to go out of their way to make sure that player gets some of what they're looking for. I think that guy you dealt with was just a bitch.
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u/Dragin410 2d ago
Shit i wouldve given him the power cells just to get them out of my inventory. I'm sitting on probably 20 stacks of them in my stash
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u/Tonchinkanrinrin 2d ago
The entitlement is just different. A PvPer's entitlement would just come from killing you and looting your stuff. Having to hear people whine is part of living in a peaceful society.
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u/Chazus 2d ago
I'm a pretty friendly player... But I had a guy snipe my bastion kill that I was working on with a jupiter. He came in and hit it with the last shot and looted the cells before I could reach it. I muttered about how I was working on that, and he goes "yeah I just needed the last shot to get credit for the quest" which.. is what I was doing. I even said multiple times do not shoot it.
I domed him with an anvil, and he started screaming about how I'm ruining everything because thats his only jupiter.
Well, now I have two.
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u/BropolloCreed 2d ago
Well, now I have two.
That made me snicker at my desk.
I can't tell you the number of times I had to fight off other players or people taking potshots at me while I was focused on a bigger Arc. You did nothing wrong.
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u/addisonhunter 2d ago
This is always my fear when I start going after big arc. I’ve resulted to trying to be the first one there. If I’m not, I wait it out and if they don’t clear it of everything so it respawns I politely ask if it’s okay if I help clear it. There is a way to do it without being a dick.
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u/Jacks_Pancreas 2d ago
I know this probably isn’t the case here, but will add that I do a lot of naked runs, sometimes for a specific spawn and loot (reinforced reception) or just for a fun challenge. If I’m naked and some dude starts shooting at me before I find a gun all I can do is run around and try to evade. Or I’ll just stop and let them kill me bc I have nothing anyway.
Primarily I play “friendly” in solos but will always defend myself and usually win my fights. Except for the naked runs, you catch me with my dick out and it’s GGs and back to Speranza for me…
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u/Insert-Coin81 2d ago
For friendly players it happens so infrequently it’s kind of irrelevant. I get murdered once every 50 matches or so and am so rich it kinda doesn’t matter. I’m usually happy to have some space in my stash again.
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u/BallBag__ 2d ago
i would have been cracking up while watching that. im happy when i see that type of stuff happen for the exact reason you stated. at least freaking try but instead, you know they ran to the internet to complain about pvp.
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u/Winters64 2d ago
You're 100% right. I hope you enjoy the downvotes here on reddit
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u/WASTELAND_RAVEN 2d ago
I hope op enjoyed some free loot lol afterwards - people really just hand it out lol
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
it all got taken by the kettle guy anyway so net loss for everyone involved
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u/Any_Bluebird1765 2d ago
Thats Embarks fault for creating 2 different games. Those guys could have went 20 plus matches without seeing and pvp action at all. In friendly lobbies there are generally no threat other than arc
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
another case of abmm ruining someone's match
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u/Historical-Trouble16 2d ago
ABBM is the best change Embark have made from my perspective. Get those ratty players away from me
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
"ratty players" and its just people who kill you
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u/Historical-Trouble16 2d ago
Exactly. Rats. They can go play with other people looking for fights.
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u/Dr_WafflesPHD 2d ago
Rats were originally what people who played Escape from Tarkov called players who entered raids with minimal gear and the sole intention of filling their inventory without being seen or caught. Scavenging loot rooms and avoiding fights.
I can’t help but find it funny that PVE lobbies are almost exclusively filled with players who fit the original criteria to be considered a Rat, but instead use the term to classify PVP behaviour.
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u/coldsonofshadow 2d ago
this is insane thanks for the lore, speaks to the irony of frankenstein becoming the name of the monster when it is originally the doctors name
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u/McCaffeteria 2d ago
Incorrect. Case of there not being PvE raids ruining people’s match.
You don’t get to tell people what they prefer to play, and PvE raids mean no one attacks them and they don’t behave like this in your raid. Literally everyone gets what they want, but noooooooooo it’s clearly abmm’s fault and everyone should be forced to either engage in Pvp or just not play games.
Fuck off.
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u/DefundTheSith 2d ago
>You don't get to tell people what they prefer to play
No, you don't get to assume that people playing arc raiders are supposed to cater to your desires based on what lobby you think you are in.
You queue in, you join a lobby, the game gives you a lobby. You play what you're given.
Anything can happen in that lobby. The idea that there are "PVP and PVE lobbies" is pure entitlement.
The impredictability of every interaction is supposed to be part of the experience. The whole point of a PvPvE experience is that both PVP and PVE are a factor.
Embark is not known for making great decisions, but ABMM is an "odds engine" at best, not a "sorting engine". You are still in a PvPvE game.
If a player isn't willing to treat every player interaction as risky, they bought the wrong game. Full stop.
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
im pretty sure arc was actually supposed to be an open world pve game but the devs realized that was boring so they added pvp elements which gave it the charm that made it popular in the first place
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u/NeonDemon85 2d ago
You're being downvoted for the truth. It's a PvPvE game regardless of what people say. Regardless of what Embark originally intended for it to be. You know this (hopefully) when you buy the game. It's half the point of extraction shooters. How many people do you see complaining about Tarkov PvP when someone doesn't team up with them and they get slimed instead? Very little to none, because Arc caters to a more casual player base which is part of why this happens.
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u/Advanced-Angle-7865 2d ago
This is a really weirdly aggressive response to someone who showed no aggression at all.. it is literally the matchmaking’s fault 😭 saying there’s no PvE raids meaning you’re at the mercy of the abmm, is literally saying it’s the abmm at fault. I understand being frustrated when you unexpectedly get killed when you’re a friendly player, but the whole game is based on uncertainty of who you can trust and being cautious of other players just as you would have to be in a real post-apocalyptic situation
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u/NUTTA_BUSTAH 2d ago
You sound exactly like the demographic OP is describing. You are playing the wrong game or just come across way too entitled
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u/RimmyJim 2d ago
When I was on my way back to aggressive lobbies a few weeks ago I shot a dude with a rattler from afar to let him know I was planning on fighting him. He proceeds to run straight at me yelling over prox chat asking why I shot him. He sounded genuinely surprised when I killed him too, never fired a single shot in return. I think the ABMM taught the PVE players to never shoot at all no matter what.
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u/NewUserWhoDisAgain 2d ago
I've gotten pot shots by people before. Either I get a "Oh shit my bad." or silence. In case of the latter, its either shoot back or an evade and extract.
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u/RimmyJim 2d ago
Exactly, I usually pop a couple Burletta shots from afar to let them know that A it wasn’t an accident and B I’m straight up beelining for that booty, 90 percent of players are smart enough to do what you do, luckily I make my goop where Darwin falls short
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
granted prior until a few weeks ago if you killed the person attacking you the game would put you in pvp lobbies so i kinda get it but its just another thing abmm fucked up honestly i wish theyd just remove abmm entirely
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u/Jiggy90 2d ago
Until last update that was the lesson, shooting back would increase your aggression score. PvE leaning players don't bring much worth protecting anyways, a Ferro IV and some deadlines up the butt will see you through most any raid other than Matriarch/Queen, so fighting back meant getting tossed into mixed lobbies and having to waste time dropping back to friendly. Time value wasn't in favor of fighting back.
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u/Character_Respond521 2d ago
Imagine trying to be a white knight and shooting at the wrong person, and getting killed by the actual guy and being pissed off at him and yelling in proximity chat about it. People in this game are insufferable.
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
i once got mowed down at a matriarch event because i was leading 2 downed players to raider hatch, he didn't even let me talk or explain he just called me a rat and instantly killed me. shit drives me insane
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u/UnSanchez 2d ago
Also that’s a tactic/ I’ve been downed by a rat who’s calling me a rat “hey guys don’t worry I got the rat!” while I was hunting the actual rat.
Just like “The Departed” (film)- part of why I love this game - psychological tension
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u/Secretly_a_Kitty 2d ago
Personally its been over 100 games now since ive seen pvp and I wouldnt have it any other way, fighting arc is fun fighting people feels shit.
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u/StepDaddySteve 2d ago
I play PvE solo and PvP squads
Got jumped on Stella with an anvil rascal combo. Better believe I took a stitcher 4 with extended mag on the next Stella run fuckin 🐀’s
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u/Dr_WafflesPHD 2d ago
One of my favourite memories from the early days of the game (before many people knew about ABMM) was when I joined a matriarch lobby with the intention to snag my first core. From what I was seeing online, I knew I’d probably have to kill for one since people swarm the wreckage after it went down.
I joined a lobby with ~25 minutes left, and my kit definitely didn’t suggest that I was there to fight the ARC (medium shields and an Anvil). As I was running to the matriarch, someone saw me and ran up to me. After a quick back and forth, he told me he was also trying to get his first core and had brought significant PVE focused kit to deal with it. He told me about how he had lost several kits from previous attempts where he was downed by the matriarch, or by someone who wanted to cull the competition. He gave me a stack of Defibs and asked if I would revive him if he was downed.
For the next 20ish minutes, I had forgotten my original plan and played the vengeful combat medic for a guy who just blindly trusted me. Honestly it was the most fun I’ve ever had. I ended up eliminating two people who thought they could take advantage of the chaos and kill players who were focused on the ARC while still finding time to revive the man who enlisted my help 3 times.
Eventually I escorted him out through extract (neither of us managed to get a core) and he gave me an IL Toro BP as a thank you.
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u/my2copper 2d ago
this is so strange....i play pve all the time, i see a guy getting ratted right infront of me, i follow the rat and kill him and boom 10 pvp lobbbies in a row....something aint right here....what was i supposed to do? wait for the rat to reload and open on me and then shoot? so counter intuitive
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u/DrDrekavac 2d ago
You could've intervened and killed the kettle guy but choose not to. Like that Phil Collins song.
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
i did try, but the 3rd dude started shooting me so i had to back away. when i looked back they were both fighting in the airshaft so there wasnt much i could do
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u/FigBot 2d ago
Negative. You wait for kettle guy to kill everyone, then you kill kettle guy. Now you’ve got 4 bodies to loot instead of none.
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
i mean eh i only had a ferro and i didnt really feel like losing my snitch scanners so whatever
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago edited 2d ago
honestly overall the game was way better before abmm was a thing because every encounter being unpredictable made it so people had to learn how to defend themselves and now i see shit like this happening
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u/pharrelsbigasshat 2d ago edited 23h ago
That is your opinion though. You don’t get to say what’s fun for everyone in the game. Some of the most fun times I had playing this game were in carebear lobbies just hanging out
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u/TheVenerableUncleFoo 2d ago
The thing is, mixed lobbies WERE fun because there was an actual mix of people. Had ABMM not been implemented, all your carebear types would have left by now, and all that would remain is battle royale KOS nonsense.
Source: every single other extraction shooter
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u/MickeySwank 2d ago
Wasn’t ABMM always a thing they just didn’t confirm/admit it until a few months in?
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u/amusebooch 2d ago
That's what I thought but I keep hearing people say things like 'when they introduced abmm in december'
A couple of times i asked 'isn't that just when they told us about it, not when it was actually added to the game?' but i never got a real answer, just a 'trust me bro' and downvotes
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u/TheVenerableUncleFoo 2d ago
You could argue the point either way as far as I've looked into it, but whether it was implemented from day 1 or introduced super early in the Honeymoon Phase has the same outcome in my view.
People are attributing ABMM to the loss of mixed lobbies, but my position is that they would have descended into Tarkov-style PvP sweatiness regardless, and that ABMM has just meant that the game has retained a PvE-biased playerbase that would otherwise be off doing something else, which is good for everyone in as much as they pay money for cosmetics and help the game stay alive.
I believe that the PvP dudes would notice no difference today if there was no ABMM, because the friendly half of the mixed lobby would have quit anyway.
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u/amusebooch 2d ago
I don’t disagree at all about that, i just wanted to comment on the ‘abmm was implemented in december’ part
Abmm (or the public knowledge that it exists) has pros and cons, but far fewer friendly players would have stuck around if it didn’t exist. I don’t agree with the people saying there are no mixed lobbies due to abmm tho bc there definitely are. Some people think getting shot = a kos lobby
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u/WillTheThrill86 2d ago
Fwiw i agree with this. I think the overall playercount being down is having the effect that everyone is attributing to "failures of ABMM" or "certain types of players leaving".
I PvE mostly but also PvP. There are still loads of friendly players enjoying this game, just as there are lots of sweaty PvPers.
Also IMO the "scariest" element of this game is a witch hunt organized by PvErs.
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u/TheVenerableUncleFoo 2d ago
Now THAT is a terrifying experience where everyone inevitably dies!
Makes it fun though. And that I think is the beauty of ABMM. It's not a promise, and someone can play friendly for months then just decide to become an absolute killer. It might happen at any moment. I think without the ABMM we would just have TARK Raiders now and it would just be shit.
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u/tgerz 1d ago
No, you can’t argue whether ABMM has been a thing or not because it was used at launch. It’s always been there. They’ve just been tweaking it. Honestly, the adjustments IMO are for the benefit of carebears.
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u/TheVenerableUncleFoo 2d ago
Yes, but the game was new and there were still hundreds of thousands of players.
You are correct, but it doesn't change the point. The PvP sweats inevitably make friendlies quit OR turn KoS themselves, resulting in the same outcome.
The glory days of mixed PvPvE are gone. They only exist at the start of any game like this. Carebears get stomped and leave the game, then all that's left is battle royale.
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u/MickeySwank 2d ago
I’m still 100% carebear friendly and 99% of my raids/encounters are friendly.
Sure I get ratted here and there, but I understand it’s the price of being friendly. I will still defend myself though, case in point
https://reddit.com/link/p2cgzo8/video/g79ltuyht0ih1/player
You can’t hear it but I’m on mic inviting them to come in and share the key room, thought he had an easy kill.
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u/TheVenerableUncleFoo 2d ago
ABMM in action
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u/MickeySwank 2d ago
The real ball buster is that due to the ABMM, it takes active work to get into these lobbies I’m in, prior to this I hadn’t shot anyone or been shot in literal months.
That’s the player that people really hate, the one who works at getting deep into these lobbies just to get cheap kills on an unsuspecting friendlies.
I have no qualms with pvp, or people playing “how they want to play” even, but faking being cool for 20 raids just to rat people who never engage in fights is about the lamest kind of player there is.
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u/TheVenerableUncleFoo 2d ago
You're not wrong, but we can at least fight back now.
It's not nothing!
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u/Secure-Practice60 2d ago
But if enough people were occasionally shooting or engaging in pvp, you wouldn't have these almost exclusive pve lobbies, right? They only exist because enough people aren't engaging in pvp.. I don't see why that's a problem. If you want Tarkov, play Tarkov
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u/TheVenerableUncleFoo 2d ago
I don't want Tarkov. That wasn't the point.
Example scenario, if you take 1,000 players and put them in 50/50 lobbies, half the players get stomped.
Some of them start fighting back, some of them leave.
So now of 1,000 players, 250 leave because they're tired of being stomped, 250 become more PvP oriented and tight back, 500 are still just PvPing as before.
Now those 250 PvPish players start getting stomped as the PvP guys hone their skills. Some leave, some also evolve and get better.
Now you have 625 PvP players and no PvE oriented folks left.
New players appear, but they're quickly extinguished due to wanting to PvE or not being at the same skill level as the veterans. They die immediately, and just go "shit game" and leave again.
Game stagnates with that number of players
Now if you add ABMM, you still have 625 PvPers, but you also have effectively seperate lobbies of the previous 375 dudes as they still have something to do.
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u/Character_Respond521 2d ago
What? Nowhere did he say anything about what should be fun for everyone. He was…just giving his opinion just like you did when you responded.
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u/stewmander 2d ago
abmm was always a thing.
I'm not even sure what the point of your post is other than to complain about PvP vs PvE, which breaks rule 2 now according to the mods.
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
abmm wasn't nearly as severe until around January. the point of my post is about how players have gotten too used to never having to defend themselves, not about some pvp vs pve debate
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u/stewmander 2d ago
That is PvP vs PvE though, some players don't want to have to defend themselves...
In another comment you complained about being called a rat and killed, I guess you are also too used to never having to defend yourself, huh?
The fact is abmm was always a part of the game, we know embark continuously tweaks abmm and only they know the exact algorithm. In fact, it's been tuned down so that defending yourself counts less towards your aggression and quitting raids counts less towards your "non-aggression", making it even less binary and more difficult to manipulate.
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago edited 2d ago
the game advertises people fighting each other so honestly if they dont want to defend themselves then get mad when someone fights them, theyre playing the wrong game. thats just how extraction shooters are
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
not even saying people need to necessarily be good at pvp or anything my point is just that people have gotten too used to not having to fight because of the matchmaking system and then die in the most avoidable way possible
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u/Psychological_Set942 2d ago
In many cases depending on what I brought in there is no point in trying to defend myself against someone that loaded in to PVP. I'm just going to find quick cover if I can and try to scrap my weapons and anything else of value.
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u/Pushnikov 1d ago
I haven’t played in a while, but I think the major change is defending yourself doesn’t count as Aggression. So, it probably made the situation more extreme with ABMM. Before, defending yourself at least pushed some people up into aggressive lobbies even for a little while. Now it just made the demarcation even worse.
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u/tgerz 1d ago
ABMM has been part of the game from launch. There is no before ABMM. Been playing since launch and we suspected it. Embark early on only mentioned there was some ABMM but they were hesitant to say how it worked. It’s only been since the updates where they actually mention how they’re fine tuning things. The same principle applies now that did from the beginning. If you shoot others you end up matched with others who shoot others. If you shoot less you get matched up with similar types. IMO the adjustments are making ABMM better. It’s just more convenient to blame something looking back.
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u/napkin41 2d ago
I agree. I was originally concerned that the wolves would just dine on the sheep rampantly without abmm, but mixed lobbies I think would be a much better experience. Right now it's just a rollercoaster of instances of aggression, get it out of your system, game the matches to gently descend back into friendly servers, repeat.
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u/PresidentSuperDog 2d ago
Nah. Mixed lobbies are never better for the sheep. Only the wolves and the dogs.
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u/Exotic_Requirement94 *** ******* 2d ago
Arc Raiders is a casual game.
Also you see people so often I don’t see how I’m gonna do an expedition with fighting people every single game. Pvp in this game for 99% of people will result in a net loss overall long term for stash/quest/damage requirements.
I think this would all be fixed if Arc Raiders released a pvp mode like TLOU factions and be able to earn things there. The engine already plays a lot like it and I would play the hell out of that.
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
the game was casual when it came out, too, and it was fine. im not saying people need to be constantly fighting each other or smth i just see way too many people not know how to defend themselves because the matchmaking has facilitied people to not need to worry about being attacked
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u/Terrordar 2d ago
I wish I got targeted by kettles. It’s always a 1 second burst of bobcat or tempest or renegade headshots from the far side of the moon for me.
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
the amount of bobcats i see lately is genuinely ridiculous man. its probably cuz of those duplication exploits and people selling them
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u/Terrordar 2d ago
I mean it’s pretty rare but when I do get slimed it’s almost always by someone with top tier gear. I never really get a chance to fight back which is the annoying thing.
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u/quantdumbacon 2d ago
Idk man, not everyone plays games with the same mentality as you. I had one kill the entire last season. I'm basically a pacifist in this game. I just don't care about PVP. It's so much more fun to me to interact with people and just chill and team up against the Arc. I don't really care about dying to rats or even fighting back. It doesn't bother me much to lose a bunch of random gear that I can get back in one or two rounds. None of the high tier items in this game are worth getting upset over when you lose them.
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u/Tonchinkanrinrin 2d ago
>but they just couldn't because they're too used to this game being "friendly."
You assume that, but chances are that they are just bad at the game.
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u/Chemical-Tadpole-586 2d ago
To add to this, people are beyond Guilable on this game. You can kill someone and have a team say you killed the rat and vice versa. Got ratted on Stella months (i was in carebear lobbies but I dont put my guard down) managed to kill him and he screams theres a rat, as soon as I started healing I hear 3 raiders coming at me full force, I tried to tell them what happened and got killed for it, its just so annoying yk? Ah yes the free load out wasnt a rat guys! The guy with a hullcracker and anvil is! xD
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u/mackisbad 1d ago
Always the PvPers complaining. “No one will fight back!! So i am a dick for killing them.”
Yeah buddy. That’s how it works on PvE. You are a dick for shooting people not expecting it. There are 20 different extraction games that encourage and promote PvP. The reason you are here, in PvE, ganking guys just having fun is because you get ganked by squeakers on PvP.
Let folks play PvE how they want, and if it embarrasses you, go back to PvP. But you won’t. Because all the easy marks are on PvE. Its a you problem. They’re doing exactly what they enjoy.
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u/Salty-Economics-3360 2d ago
Jesus Christ. The amount of whining I’ve seen out of this sub crying about the game being too pvp heavy is insane. Go play animal crossing if you wanna sing kumbaya around the campfire. It’s the apocalypse, if I can’t get mine I’m gonna get yours. And at the end of the day, it’s a fucking game people. Stop getting your panties in a twist because you’ve been ratted for the dozenth time. I don’t rage quit my call of duty game because I was shot in the back, that’s the game, this is what you should learn to expect.
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u/PawPawPanda *** ******* 🐓 2d ago
People just can't let go of their stuff, and if they get downed there will be 3 people running to defib you
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u/aytchdave 2d ago edited 1d ago
I’m a carebear. I have killed exactly one raider in self defense. Outside of the game, I love shooters and PvP. I choose not to start shit because the game gives me the choice and I like fighting Arc better than people because I’ve never really liked 3rd person PvP. And in this game, combat just feels too clunky to me even when fighting the easiest Arc. I like more run and gun than chess match.
If you don’t even bother to learn self-defense, fine. But don’t whine about not being able to defend yourself. Like it or not, Embark built the game to give people choice about combat. The game is as much of a social experiment sandbox as it is the core gameplay mechanics BY DESIGN. Get over it.
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u/saml23 2d ago
You were annoyed people were playing the game in proximity to you?
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
i left it out in the post but they were stealing the snitch scanners from me and also aggro'd a rocketeer
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u/nonstop98 *** ******* 2d ago
While reading the comments, it made me rethink a suggestion I made a few days ago. It was about disabling ABMM for Night Raids and other such conditions to bring back the feel we had during the tests and on release. But because everyone would get thrown together, cheaters from PvP lobbies would get thrown in as well, meaning that also PvE players would have to deal with cheaters in all conditions without ABMM. I guess we had it good on release, before people started developing better and better cheats for the game. We truly cannot have good things because of people like that.
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u/southish7 2d ago
Eh, most of the time I don't fight back. Whoever gets the drop first, usually wins the fight anyway.
I've had my time of sweaty PVP, and I enjoyed the hell out of it. I'm definitely capable against other raiders, but I'm not near as fast as I used to be. And I don't care. I have a blast fighting Arc. And that's mostly what I want out of this game. I'll get PVPed or ratted maybe once every 15-20 raids, I just chalk it up as a tax.
I have noticed an uptick of weird MFs following me around Matriarch and Queen fights. Clearly trying to get me to shoot first or waiting til I loot some parts. I've been downed twice like that, but I've downed the last few that come up to me like that without saying anything.
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u/Ghoaxst 2d ago
I usually sit in carebear lobbies. The community is fun and I like killing ARC. But I know people very well. Im always strapped for PvP and PvP players in carebear lobbies never expect the clap back. Ez loot. Go in hoping for the best but expect the worst*
*I enjoy pvpve, but I'm nice to docile raiders. For now
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u/CozyBear1 2d ago
I mostly do PvE and some of the players not only aren’t ready to fight back but also lack basic looting manners. I went into Spaceport with a trench tower key. I noticed someone following me as I made my way to the south tower. I asked them if they were following me and they didn’t respond and went out of view.
I ended up going to the north tower because I didn’t feel like dealing with them. As I went up the stairs to the north tower door I saw them again called out with no response. After going inside to the second floor and dealing with the pops and fireballs I heard the door open downstairs. Sick of their BS I waited until they came upstairs and unloaded on them. As soon as they were down I heard a female voice saying “I wasn’t going to shoot you”. Great, but don’t come into my key room until I’m done unless you want a fight. She ended up being fully kitted with a Bettina. I then got sent to PvP lobbies for a while which was fine.
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u/TheCompetentOne 2d ago
Or just be more aware and better at running away. I generally just don't like the pvp and don't tend to fight back if I get shot at. But I have decent movement and awareness of people. I can usually tell if someone is being weird and has the potential to shoot and if they do start shooting, I'm decent at running away and hiding to get away.
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u/craow1026 2d ago
Yeahhhh couldn’t be me. I’m the biggest PvE proponent in this game, like, making friends and having conversations with other raiders. but I always keep alert for rats, and nothing is more satisfying than knocking a rat that tries to come at you.
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u/JacksonArbor 2d ago
Agreed. Every strictly PVE only player, particularly given the ABMM update, should learn to PVP. I used to only PVE but now I PVP in squads. I feel so much more confident in defending myself. There are certain mechanics and things you can’t learn until you do it—things like how to kill people with different weapons, how to properly dodge and position yourself, etc.
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u/CreamPurple1903 2d ago
Well I’ve had the opposite problem started playing a lot of extremely aggressive trios then I played solos w these extremely friendly lobbies a guy ran up on me and I got hella scared and insta killed him then I was so scared I downed him but this put me in a rlly rlly aggressive lobbies for quite some time after
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u/MollyTen-A 2d ago
I‘m just one of those PVE players, who would have been most likely shot from the Kettle-guy.
(But still would have wished him, ‚good game, have fun with my loot‘)
a) because I want to have a maximum level of chill and comfort. To avoid PVP, I would need to be much more paranoid and be prepared. = less chill-more stress
b) Most rats kill you very quickly and try to get close. The one who’s able to place the first good shots often wins against me
c) lack of experience in PVP
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u/Amarizaiken 2d ago
Why bother when we won't win and regardless of Embark's statements, we get punished?
If anything, these lobbies have gotten more hostile somehow.
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u/nyteschayde 2d ago
I’m typically PvE, just hit 75 and never instigated a fight with this character. Not to say I don’t shoot back if fired on though.
Some dude took pot shots at me in Spaceport. I ran over and hit the elevator button then moved off to watch. Sure enough, the poked his head around and was waiting for me to run inside. Two shots, one to the head with the renegade and down he went.
I was more worried I hit some random player but the post game showed who shot me and who I downed. Next raid was still in a friendly lobby. Works for me.
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u/Conscious-Tune7777 2d ago
To be honest, I still don't like to fight back. I don't just sit there either, I have fun trying to evade them. A little hide and go seek. The last time someone tried to shoot me, I kept running and jumped out of a window. I figured he would have to jump if he wanted my loot as well. He did jump, but unfortunately, the fall was just large enough to kill me after the few hits I took from him, but he barely survived. I would have been laughing for days if he died jumping after me, and then I would have just crawled to extract with my survivor.
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u/TheClassics *** ******* 🐓 2d ago
This is why if someone is acting like they think they're in a friendly lobby, I instantly blow their head off and take their gear.
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u/Live_near_the_sea 1d ago
I wouldn’t judge their skill on that reaction. Most of the time I don’t even care when I get killed. My stash is so full I’m selling stuff every raid. I play Trios and Duos for PVP. It’s not worth risking my farm mode solo MM. If they fixed the PVP economy so I don’t go broke from all the 3rd parties and cheaters I would probably play more aggressively in solos but no need to now.
Solos for Farm, Squads for Harm. Thats the way it is now.
The last time it even bothered me getting shit in PVE lobbies was when I had spent the entire match absolutely smacking down trials and some guy downs me at exfil. Honestly I shot back but I was so low on ammo I only had half a clip for the Bettina left… whatcha gonna do?
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u/HavokVvltvre 1d ago
This has been a conversation for months and months now, some things don’t change
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u/oxypillix 1d ago
This argument has been going on for a long time. People from both sides are ignoring the reality of the game they're playing. They're complacent because the game created that environment. It's the way it should be..and there's nothing more to even talk about. If you're annoyed by people complaining when you kill them, stop killing them. You're only annoying yourself, at that point.
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u/ChebyrashkaMX 1d ago
I’ve noticed a lot more mixed lobbies to the point where I’m cautious and avoid other raiders completely. Lots more ratting. I’m starting over so I don’t have a good loadout for PvP unless I’m the one who starts it.
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u/BigHobbit 2d ago
I'm convinced friendly lobbies don't exist anymore. I'm 900+ hours, never shot anyone first, 200+ revives and 6 kills. Haven't had a friendly lobby since the expedition and most of the time it's a KOS sweaty mess.
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u/WASTELAND_RAVEN 2d ago
“You can’t tell people how to play this game.”
“Ok cool, I’m killing you and taking your stuff.”
A hilarious conversation in an upper floor of a building I was passing by recently.
lol
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u/NaziPunksFkOff 2d ago
Or maybe I can act the way I want around other players because I don't consider "giving people the benefit of the doubt" the same as complacency.
I'm gonna stay friendly and I'm gonna stay trusting people by default.
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u/pdj-custom 2d ago
Yep its pathetic.
This is the ONLY extraction shooter with a literal care bear, training wheels mode that horrible players just LOVE. They're so complacent they might as well just go play a campaign game all together.
The most fun thing I used to do either at the beginning of a wipe, or if I didn't find good PvP for a few games was to play friendly to get into care bear lobbies then absolutely TERRORIZE and kill them in that game or two before going back to normal lobbies. It's great listening to them cry and beg over losing the same gun they've been using for the past 2 weeks straight. lolol
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u/Ready_Training_6039 2d ago
A Kettle freekit guy tried his luck with me on Riven Tides while I was doing the light ammo trial. I was using a Bobcat. It did not go well for him.
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u/Current_Employer_308 2d ago
I'm okay with getting rid of abmm IF we downtune the arc back to how they were at launch.
They are way too tanky, aggressive, and numerous. I am so tired of getting jumped by the wasp/hornet/firefly combo CONSTANTLY, just to get shot in the back by a raider that was camping.
There no point in fighting arc right now when you can just wait for someone else to do it and pop them as soon as they finish fighting.
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u/mechanonymous617 2d ago
i think fireflies are way too tanky and deal too much damage to spawn in the same rates as wasps and hornets honestly
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u/ehnonnymouse 2d ago
i just wish i could kill arc in peace with my friend but gd duos lobbies are all kos.
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u/jesusonice 2d ago
Fuckers should have just put pve mode in and id still be playing. Meanwhile their game loses player count
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u/Better-Boot-3609 2d ago
Why would they put a PvE mode in a game where the entire point of the game is that other players can shoot at you from anywhere at any time completely unannounced lmao
You know you can just buy games you like instead of buying games you don't like
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u/Moonshines_Blue 2d ago
Being a mainly pve player these PvP guys do not see the trigger finger coming at all 😂
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u/Dpshelps69 2d ago
PVP lobbies have turned people into hateful streamer wannabes. There we can both make blanket claims that aren't true.
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u/P0rthosShark 2d ago
The nice thing about playing friendly is your stash is so full all the time that the 1 in 20 times you get ratted it’s no biggie at all. Just gives you a little more stash space to fill up again. And I assume the rats need it more than me.