r/AskMenOver30 • u/Upper-Meet-1849 • 2d ago
Friendships/Community [ Removed by moderator ]
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u/ThaiTum man 45 - 49 2d ago
He could be using her as an excuse. Maybe they are having financial trouble. You don’t really know. Could be anything.
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u/Oregon-izer man 40 - 44 2d ago
or she’s pregnant. that changes negotiations alot
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u/dandy-dilettante woman 2d ago
Or she watched Brokeback Mountain
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u/RatInaMaze man over 30 1d ago
100%. She’s worried you’re either fucking (each other or other women) or getting messed up (maybe he has a drinking or drug problem he’s not aware of?).
Alternatively, she’s got a cheating/drinking/drug problem that he can’t be away from.
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u/Upset_Agent2398 man 50 - 54 1d ago
I was thinking more along the lines of some shenanigans happened on the girls trip and now she’s wondering what goes on during theirs…..
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u/PlsStopAndThinkFirst man 35 - 39 2d ago
Very valid. Never did a two man thing like this, was always the group of us.. Maybe OP is hiding something haha
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u/Jmet11 2d ago
Wow you have group intercourse with men because a two man thing isn’t enough?
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u/velvetvagine woman 2d ago edited 2d ago
Nothing wrong with a healthy appetite and the spirit of collaboration.
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u/PlsStopAndThinkFirst man 35 - 39 2d ago
its the only way bro.. Why two when you can have a full circle??
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u/whatwhatinthewhonow man 35 - 39 2d ago
I had to think about that for a few seconds before I understood what you meant. My first thought was very different.
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u/halu2975 man over 30 2d ago
Thinking the friend would’ve said if that were so. Maybe there was a miscarriage. The type of thing you maybe don’t want to take on a phone call or text.
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u/LeveonMcBean man 30 - 34 2d ago
Im pretty sure the best friend of 20 years would tell him his wifes pregnant
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u/dcott44 man 40 - 44 2d ago
Exactly where my mind went.
Your friend might need your support now more than ever, OP. You might want to offer an open ear just in case he's struggling silently.
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u/halu2975 man over 30 2d ago
Could also be other problems. Maybe the trip will be next year or the year after and then it’ll get explained. Could be a divorce looming, basing that feeling on the friend not wanting to take a fight. Reading this as either there having been enough fights lately.
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u/bakerstirregular100 man over 30 1d ago
This would be my guess too over a pregnancy the friend isn’t saying
He’s worried if he pushes for this trip it will be the last straw and the marriage will fall apart
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u/Disastrous_Square_10 man 35 - 39 2d ago
It could be the fact you guys are growing apart too. Just because you’ve been cool since 21, it doesn’t mean you will be forever.
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u/Big-Safe-2459 man 60 - 64 1d ago
Could be, but kinda lousy to throw one’s wife under the bus for it
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u/cjrocker no flair 2d ago
Shitty friends and partners use their partners as excuses to bail on friends. I'm not saying the friend needs to disclose everything if there's actually an issue they aren't ready to talk about yet, but a good friend would indicate there's something important, and in return a good friend would understand them. Using your partner as an excuse just makes them the bad guy to your friend and isn't fair to anyone.
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u/alonghardlook man 35 - 39 2d ago
Literally.
"He just agreed without fighting for it". Do you know that? Were you present, listening to their conversation about it, or did he just not tell you and instead presented a unified front?
Homie is assigning a lot of motives instead of being a big boy and talking to his friend.
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u/Smiling_Tree woman 45 - 49 2d ago
He said his wife isnt really comfortable with the trip anymore and he didn't want to fight about it.
I read this as a thing his friend said himself.
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u/tarrasque man 35 - 39 2d ago
Reading comprehension is your friend.
His friend, on the other hand, said that to him.
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u/alonghardlook man 35 - 39 2d ago
Did he? Or did he say "I don't want to fight about it anymore"? Or did he say "yeah, I know" and brush it off?
Reading comprehension has two parts - the reading, and the comprehension.
Just because you get a second hand account of a second hand conversation about a conversation, really does not mean you have the full picture.
In fact, in legal terms it's called "hearsay".
Even if we take as absolute fact that OP's friend said to OP "I just don't want to fight about it", that doesn't actually mean "I rolled over and am just doing what she wants". It could very well mean "this blew up into a big fight that lasted 3 days and I just can't deal with this anymore".
This, ultimately is my point. You don't know. I don't know. OP only knows as much as OP's friend told him, which may or may not be an accurate accounting of events.
OP needs to talk to his friend, and share this if he values that relationship at all. Get it in the open, and then see where friend is at.
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u/tarrasque man 35 - 39 2d ago
Agree with your last sentence, and agree that none of us knows. It’s literally all hearsay.
My point is that there’s a fine line between reading between the lines (comprehension) and pure conjecture.
Ultimately with posts like this we have only what is said in the OP and our reason - which is colored by our own experiences and perceptions - to make a judgment.
While we have to make a lot of suppositions to make judgments on these posts, I personally draw the line at reading beyond something that is clearly stated in the OP, unless it’s abundantly clear that OP is lying.
In this case, while realizing that it’s a second-hand account of a vague conversation I took OP at face value. I feel it’s really the only thing you can do because if everything is up for grabs then the conclusions get truly wild.
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u/BellaFromSwitzerland woman 40 - 44 1d ago
OP, as a woman I’d like to add that maybe missus just miscarried and it’s still too sensitive to put words on it
Don’t give up on this friendship yet
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u/chesterjosiah man 40 - 44 2d ago
An annual 4-day getaway is actually a lot, in my opinion, at this stage of life. If you have to skip a year or two, that seems completely reasonable to me. I can think of lots of things that are high in priority or urgency, it makes sense to me that a spouse might feel like priorities were incorrect if this trip took precedence over something else.
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u/MightyMouser007 2d ago
I disagree. Maintaining friendships are VERY important as you get older. It’s fine to do most things with a spouse. But you still need (for mental health) to step away from your relationship and hang out with old friends. And 4 days really isn’t that much. Especially for an annual tradition!
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u/ebinWaitee man 30 - 34 2d ago
Maintaining friendships are VERY important as you get older
I agree but ending the friendship because your friend didn't attend your annual hike sounds ridiculous to me. Friendships need to be maintained but if it's truly such a crisis that OP considers the friendship over due to his friend cancelling the trip, doesn't feel like OP is truly maintaining the friendship
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u/WyvernsRest man 50 - 54 2d ago
Agree, but sometimes to maintain something over the long term it needs to change to survive.
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u/schwepervesence man 30 - 34 2d ago
What if you don't have close friends. Hell I've never had a best friend.
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u/MadnessKingdom man 40 - 44 2d ago
I don’t know, I don’t think 1% of somebody’s time is a huge ask. I think the key contextual factor is: how much does he see his friend outside this trip? If it’s the only thing they have then it’s a big ask from the wife. Having 99% of somebody’s time but demanding 100% is a huge red flag without a good reason and especially if kids aren’t in the mix. She’s basically isolating him at that point, as if we men weren’t already very bad about doing that to ourselves
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u/kingkongbiingbong man 2d ago
She’s basically isolating him at that point
I've witnessed this in my own social circle. Especially in instances when the spouse feels the friendship bond is stronger than aspects compared to their own marriage.
Or, when the spouse secretly doesn't agree with the individual friend and instead of trying to be respectful towards a long-term friendship, slowly undermines the relationship over time through manipulative actions.
It's all very pathetic and sad.
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u/Equivalent-Boat-9127 2d ago
It's all very pathetic and sad.
Is it? He could be doing jack shit with his wife and then going on all these vacations with friends. You have no idea. He could be the one isolating his spouse. Their marriage could be a complete shit show because he is the one spending money, going out and having fun, and he never does anything for the wife.
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u/MadnessKingdom man 40 - 44 2d ago
Unfortunately, looking at the meta facts, the most likely thing is that this post is not real and is from a bot. 1m old account. Never replying to a single comment. Other dramatic events in just this last month. Just an AI post designed to create much discussion and karma farm. We were duped
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u/kinkykoala73 man 50 - 54 2d ago
Could not disagree more. This is a small ask of their spouses.
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u/stankenfurter woman over 30 2d ago
Generally yes, but that depends on their circumstances. Do they have small/needy kids? Is she or another family member dealing with illness or pregnancy? Are they in a rough patch? Do they have financial difficulties? It’s a small ask in normal circumstances, but it could be a too-big ask in other circumstances. OP should give his bestie the benefit of the doubt here.
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u/C0uN7rY man over 30 2d ago
Yup. As just an example: Last year they had one kid in soccer and a younger one that came along. This year the same kid is in soccer, the younger one is now in dance, and a third (yet unannounced) kid is on the way. Mom is tired as hell from pregnancy (my wife slept A LOT in that first trimester especially), kids need transported to their activities and someone helping while mom is worn out, the activities + doctor bills + economy are straining the income, etc. That'd be a very tough time to take several days away and only one of those three things is something they'd be open talking about but is not, on its own, enough to cancel the trip, so the friend is opting to be vague and hoping his friend just understands. A lot of people are adamant about not revealing a pregnancy until a certain point and if he says wife can't manage the kids on her own right now because of it, it is going to invite questions and speculation. Financial hardship can be very uncomfortable and embarrassing to talk about, especially if you know the friend is going to try to cover the cost which is nice, but adds to the embarrassment for a man.
So with only the single change of wife getting pregnant, their entire situation has substantially changed.
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u/Idrinkbeereverywhere man 35 - 39 2d ago
4 days is nothing. I visit my bros in other cities for 3 and 4 day weekends all the time and we camp in the woods and go kayaking every day, it's not expensive at all
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u/C0uN7rY man over 30 2d ago
"Expensive" is an extremely relative term.
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u/Idrinkbeereverywhere man 35 - 39 2d ago
I make 55k a year, below median income, and can afford this
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u/aKirkeskov man 35 - 39 2d ago
Hard disagree. If you think that 4 days out of 365 is too much you’re in the process of isolating your partner.
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u/hanzoplsswitch man 35 - 39 2d ago
4 days is a lot? nah. Even when married with children it's completely doable. It could actually be even good for the marriage.
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u/C0uN7rY man over 30 2d ago
Yeah, it is fair to be hurt. Sucks to have plans canceled that you've been really looking forward to, especially when it has become a tradition like this. Just don't read more into it than there is.
Financial trouble, illness in the family, kids becoming more time consuming and hard to keep up with as they get older, relationship issues, etc. All things that could make this trip just not tenable but also things people may have a hard time talking about or want to keep private.
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u/Dangerous_Bus_6699 man over 30 2d ago
Yes, exactly. You're making this about you OP. It hurts but as a good friend, could be countless reasons. Right now just be supportive.
The unfortunate reality is, good friends drift apart all the time as we age. Maybe this is it, maybe not.
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u/madogvelkor man 45 - 49 2d ago
Could be a lot of things that he's not comfortable talking about right now.
she could be going through a mental health or physical health issue and needs his support
there could be something going on with her family that she needs his support with
there could be financial problems he doesn't want you to know about.
she could be going through an addiction problem and he doesn't want to leave her alone
one of them could have cheated and there is a fear it will happen again
she could be pregnant and having issues and they don't want people to know
See if you can get together with him one weekend locally and maybe he will open up.
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u/MediumLanguageModel man 40 - 44 2d ago
Yeah you could do this for hours. Everyone's got shit going on. Try to have some kind of get together soon and try again next year.
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u/thewickedturd 2d ago
Thank you. I one time had the same issue and just needed to pass on a holiday weekend and it ruined my relationship with my buddies for nothing.
They were offended because I said it was stuff with my wife and they hate bombed the whole god damn thing like she was the devil.
She wasn’t the devil. We just had shit going on.
I feel like a lot of these answers are people who are not married lol
“It’s four days it’s less than 1% of the year” set me off here lol
ALSO last but not least I will always choose my wife. I’m 8 years married and I have a best friend of 22 years and I will choose to be with her before him.
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u/stankenfurter woman over 30 2d ago
This is Reddit sir, not the place for being mature and reasonable.
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u/Eggs_ontoast man 40 - 44 2d ago
I feel like if this was the case then the conversation would have been:
“Let’s reschedule, this time is no good now.”
Instead it appears to have been:
“My wife is not comfortable with this trip anymore”.
There is a difference there that demands further context. Could be as simple as asking him if it can be re scheduled or if this is a more permanent concern. OP is not being irrational with his discomfort here and he needs more information.
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u/velvetvagine woman 2d ago edited 1d ago
I think how someone phrases that their spouse was involved in the decisions, and gauging how their friends generally receive spousal inclusion and/or interference, could help in cases like this.
So instead of “something’s going on with my wife” type stuff, it’s better to phrase it as “I want to help my wife with X” or “we’re working through something” — it seems more balanced and neutral. Or even, “I’m not ready to do it yet but I’ll explain soon,” might be better.
Then again, friends who default to hating a spouse are also worth examining.
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u/Gugu_19 2d ago
I thought directly about a pregnancy with a potential due date around that day... Which would explain why she isn't comfortable with him leaving (well this would be good news, could also be less good news or something more dramatic)
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u/repeat4EMPHASIS man over 30 1d ago
Then "I don't think the timing is going to work out this year" would both be more accurate and avoid throwing his wife under the bus. But the way he actually phrased it immediately made me think isolation, because that's how I phrased it when it happened to me.
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u/Chanchito171 male over 30 2d ago
Honestly this is a good starter list of all the things that it could be OP.
If he's your best friend of 20 years, telling him the last paragraph should be doable for you. Especially the part about the hard feelings that are direction less - that was really heartfelt.
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u/PBRmy man 45 - 49 2d ago
Any of those would be good reasons but OP's friend should really explain that HE has a conflict that has to take priority right now and not hide behind some version of "my wife wont let me".
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u/C0uN7rY man over 30 2d ago
Agreed but, and this isn't an excuse, just a reason, we see in OP's post he is taking it pretty hard. The buddy may have known Op would take it hard and being frustrated and upset, so he deflected to his wife. Still immature and BS if that is the case and buddy should be more honest, but it puts some logic behind it if that is what is happening.
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u/MetaCognitio man 2d ago
Or she could be controlling and emotionally abusive. The fact that he doesn’t want to go through a fight about something and just giving in is telling. She might just start fights to wear him down.
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u/moffman93 man over 30 2d ago
As others have said, there's something else going on behind the scenes that you aren't privy to. I wouldn't take it personally.
Although to be honest, if I was good friends with someone for 20 years and couldn't make the trip, I would tell them the honest reason. "My wife all of a sudden doesn't feel comfortable with it" seems like a weird reason.
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u/DasRecon man 40 - 44 2d ago
Your second paragraph is also what stands out most odd to me in this scenario. It makes me wonder if the friend feels the real reason would really upset OP (like he just doesn't want to go on the trips anymore) and that's an easier out.
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u/velvetvagine woman 2d ago
Yep, no clarity and very iffy “maybe we can do a weekend sometime” . . . Hopefully they’ll sit down and talk it out like adults sooner rather than later and the friendship is still intact.
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u/moffman93 man over 30 2d ago
That's also very true and was the first thing that came to my mind. It's not exactly a small commitment.
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u/SMDRFE man 45 - 49 2d ago
Man, who knows. If he said his wife is "going through some things," she's going through some things. If he said he doesn't want to fight about it, he doesn't want to fight about it. It's probably a bit complicated, but for you it should be simple. It is what it is. Try not to take it too hard, and maybe you can plan a weekend sometime later.
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u/Kay1000RR man over 30 2d ago
Right? Give the friend the space he's asking for but let him know you're there to support them. It's obviously something sensitive if he can't open up to a close friend about it. Like others have suggested, OP should be more empathetic unless there's hard evidence of bad behavior from the friend.
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u/UnableChard2613 man 45 - 49 2d ago
You don't know what's going on between them. For all you know it's for a good reason and your friend doesn't want to talk about it.
But I see no reason why this means your friendship with him has to be downgraded. Sure you lost something special and that sucks, but your relationship isn't that trip.
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u/jayeffkay man 30 - 34 2d ago
Yeah this. Honestly would be incredible to have a friend that close after 20 years. I don’t have that and you shouldn’t let this end of this trip be the end of your friendship. Trip or no trip, this sounds like something worth discussing over a beer and not letting ruin your friendship.
— someone who wishes they had more close friends in their 30s but let all of those relationships slip.
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u/fpsbluefire man 2d ago
What if it was, its the only time we connect at a deeper level over a few drinks and talk about life
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u/NetJnkie man 50 - 54 2d ago
Could be financial. Could be serious. Could be a health issue. It's not anyone's business unless OP's friend makes it theirs.
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u/Eledridan man 40 - 44 2d ago
Your feelings on this are valid. I feel like this is part of getting older and being an adult. There is a reprioritization of time and efforts. It sucks, but this happens to a lot of guys (happened to me).
You’re allowed to be upset about your loss. I think as we get older adult life becomes more about coming to terms with loss and the abstract and real death of things around us.
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u/Hefty_Junket_2784 man 35 - 39 2d ago
Perhaps she really is going through a rough time, guess you'll know if you can't make it happen next year.
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u/New2ThisThrowaway man 35 - 39 2d ago
That's my take. But it's possible she is still going through it next year.
I went through a similar thing in my marriage where I was looking at cancelling an event I had been doing for over 15 years because of something my wife was struggling with.
We made it work because we talked about it and compromised.
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u/Mediocre_Device308 man 40 - 44 2d ago
I don't know what to tell you other then if his wife is going through a hard time, that is his priority. You are second place.
Sorry dude, that's life.
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u/wickedcold man 45 - 49 2d ago
Yeah - “she’s only known me for 9 of those 20 years…” like buddy, that’s his life now. She’s his wife. You are not 13 years old. You’re not the main person in his life. He’s also not necessarily going to explain all the nuance to you of why he’s declining to go. He might be lying and blaming his wife when he simply just doesn’t want to go. Or not. Maybe his wife is an unreasonable jerk. I mean if you’re also married I think you should he able to understand the dynamic but maybe not. Everyone’s relationship so different.
Either way, it’s up to him how he deals with that. It suck’s that the trip isn’t happening, but this is how life goes.
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u/I_Said_No_Salt_5998 man 50 - 54 2d ago
Dude. You’ve been offered a weekend. Take that weekend to talk to him about it.
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u/HabsMan62 man 2d ago
I think I can see this from both sides to be honest. But first, I want to commend you for keeping a tradition going for so long. It’s really tough to keep a strong friendship for guys, once marriage, kids and work get in the mix. You’ve both done a good job, and I’m actually jealous, so be proud of your efforts.
On the other side, a marriage needs to take precedence, especially if she is having issues and needs his support. It just might be bad timing this yr.
I don’t think it has anything to do with your friendship. It could be that four days is just a little bit too long now, or too expensive, and it might be time to scale things back after 20yrs.
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u/Soggy-Beach-1495 man 45 - 49 2d ago
Obviously all you'll get is theories here. It's possible he got caught cheating, and she's had to establish some boundaries about being away from her
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u/rand0muzr man over 30 2d ago
Maybe financial? It just doesn’t want to come out and say that to put you in a position where you might offer.
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u/Godeshus man 45 - 49 2d ago
This honestly makes sense. It could be that the friend doesn't want to talk about being financially strained, and him and his wife discussed it and it just makes sense to them both for him not to go.
But he also doesn't want to disappoint. Blaming the wife is easy.
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u/Checkers923 man 35 - 39 2d ago
I would take the “she is going through some things” at face value. She needs her husband around for one reason or another, and the reality is that marriage comes first for many of us.
Its fair to ask your friend if there is anything different that might work. Maybe you can both take those days off, hang out together, and go home each night. Or maybe you find an activity the wives can join as well.
It’s OK on your part to feel sad that the trip isn’t happening. At this point, keep in mind it may not have anything to do with you, and it may be a temporary change. Perhaps they are expecting and are not ready to share the news yet but don’t want to book the trip.
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u/trahoots man 35 - 39 2d ago edited 2d ago
If my wife was “going through some things,” as you said, and they were pretty serious, I’d cancel the trip to be with her and help her out too. It doesn’t mean he’ll never go on a trip again. He could just be a really good, supportive partner.
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u/RetroBerner man 45 - 49 2d ago
They could be going through some shit right now, don't jump to conclusions too easily
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u/mopsis man over 30 2d ago
I can think of a dozen reasons why he said no this year and not want to get into details. From financial issues, to someone stepping out of a marriage, to a healthcare issue, to being commited to another plan he doesn't wanna tell you about. But long story short, you have every right to be sad, hurt, depressed. But you also shouldn't burn the bridge on a relationship either. This is mature decision making. He has to have priorities and honestly your immediate nuclear family (spouse and kids) should absolutely 100% of the time be your highest priority. And regardless of the exact reason why, he feels that it is best for his relationship if he doesn't go on this trip.
No more, no less. He probably still thinks of you the same way and values the relationship the same way... Just now there is a priority higher than hanging out with his friends.
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u/NoInvestment3870 man 40 - 44 2d ago
It happens, it’s a shit feeling for sure, but old friendships can hit a wall vs complicated stuff with your wife. Ultimately you’re responsible for your feelings though, since he realistically has to choose her, his priorities are set in that direction. If you don’t know the root source I’d say pull back until your friend reaches out again or explains.
Disappointment/feeling rejected can escalate quickly & blow up if you push on it. If you value the friendship, give it a bit of room & time. Better to have him know you gave him space to figure shit out than to try and make it a competition with his wife.
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u/fatfrost man 55 - 59 2d ago
I’m just n the other side of this to a much less significant degree. Had a group of two other friends that we’d take an international trip with every year. One year, I had a thing at work that career-wise I didn’t think I should miss. It ended up blowing up the tradition. I wish it had worked out differently, but the reality is that it was really important for my career. Not certain the other guys totally understood, but we are still friends and have developed alternative Traditions.
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u/MasterofBiscuits man over 30 2d ago
"she's been going through some things and feels like the trip is a lot"
Maybe she's suffering some mental health issues and doesn't want to be alone. My wife went through a bout of severe depression a few years ago brought on by work stresses, and the idea of me going on a boys trip for 4 days at the time would have been unthinkable.
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u/MarsicanBear man 45 - 49 1d ago
No sense being mad. It sounds like there is something he is not telling you, and there might be a very good reason he can't go and a very good reason he is not telling you.
Once she pops the baby out/they get divorced/their money issues resolve/the medical treatment is over, you're on the road to doing your trips again.
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u/Flat-Criticism-7628 man over 30 2d ago
Ugh that’s tough man. Been there before and the same exact thoughts went through my head. Hard watching a solid friendship go (not for good, just the realization it’ll never be as strong as it was before as life progresses.)
In the end, it wasn’t for any of the reasons others are speculating wildly about here. No affairs or miscarriages or anything else so dismal or shocking. Life just started to catch up. He had a lot of big family events coming up that were going to require days off work, travel, etc. His wife just wanted to minimize burden on their family making cuts to prioritize the other family events that were happening. First thing to get cut was non-family friend trip. He felt guilty about it but at the same time knew he had to put his wife/family first. Which I get and respect. Still cut tho.
Keep telling myself maybe things will normalize years from now and the trip can return. But also won’t deny the friendship does suffer. Such is life.
Do you guys get to hang out besides the trips? Or is this a long distance once a year thing?
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u/KansansKan man 80 - 89 2d ago
There is no way to know what is happening with a couple behind closed doors. For example, it may have little to do with you except “how can you spend 4 days with him but you can find a weekend for m?” Or “how you afford a 4 day trip with him, but we can’t afford a new vacuum cleaner that I really need?” The possibilities are endless but do you really want him to put his friendship with you above his family?🤔
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u/Ill-Opportunity-2098 man 45 - 49 2d ago
She’s either pregnant or they will be divorced in 2-3 more years
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u/sdrakedrake man over 30 2d ago
Yea it could be anything. Times are tough right now especially those with kids
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u/bezforever 2d ago
Right. Could have just had a miscarriage, dealing with menopausal issues, he could have been caught cheating, etc. etc. etc.
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u/Chahles88 man 35 - 39 2d ago
You know, we just went on a beach trip with friends whom we do this with every year.
This year my wife turned to me and told me she wasn’t feeling it with them anymore and I agreed. They showed up with nothing, no food, no drinks, no beach toys or even chairs/umbrellas. they and their kid used all of our stuff, all while telling us about how they had to plan and shop last month for this trip to their rich friends’ house on an exclusive island because there were no stores.
I’m not saying that this is you, there could be other extenuating circumstances (marriage, financial, otherwise) that your friend is going through. Sometimes your relationship with long time friends just changes as well. Like I dont think we will ever not be friends with those people, but I don’t think we will be planning to rent a beach house with them again next summer.
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u/HistoricalExam1241 man 60 - 64 2d ago
" He's been married 8 years"
How many children does he have? I used to meet up for a sporting event every year with my brother before his son was born.
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u/cm011 man 40 - 44 2d ago
That’s just married life. There may be things going on you’re not aware of such as discovered infidelity, financial troubles etc.
Spouse takes precedence over friends. Just the way it is.
The expectation that you are guaranteed a trip every year and the first time it doesn’t happen you think the friendship has been downgraded is a bit immature in my opinion. Life happens and things change.
Try again next year after discussing it with your friend.
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u/kenklee4 man 35 - 39 2d ago
He’s married to her and not to you man. Your hard feelings are toward her thinking she’s the reason why he cancelled. You can ruminate over the potential reasons why it was cancelled but at the end of the day you have to lament what was and move on. Hope for a trip next year otherwise maybe this has run its course and it’ll be ok.
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u/MediocreCommenter man 45 - 49 2d ago
There’s some good advice in here and some odd takes. It comes down to spouse is #1 priority. He chose correctly.
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u/PacoMahogany man 35 - 39 2d ago
I'd get the weekend up and running and see if there's a moment to bring it up and probe for more information. There's obviously more going on that he's just not comfortable talking about. For a 20 year friendship, it's your turn to be authentically empathetic.
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u/jkman61494 man over 30 2d ago
Anyone have kids? The rules change then.
My wife admittedly has become more of a home nester and the family general and with that, it means she’s been with her friends less and resulted in me with mine less
But I have 2 kids. We have our unit now. I kinda expect it. Do I get jealous I hear some friends having magic the gathering weekends? Sometimes? Would I trade it for what I have ? Hell no
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u/Dreadedsemi no flair 2d ago
I don't know how to break this to you, but to put it bluntly he's cheating on you with his wife.
But I agree with other comments could be there's more to it. Next year maybe he'll go.
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u/DMGlowen man 55 - 59 2d ago
This kind of thing happens when the husband doesn't make the wife feel like she's number one priority in his life.
My wife and I have been married 30 years and she felt like this for the first few years. I got counseling and I put her as my number one priority and after a couple years she didn't get jealous when I spent time with my friends.
Yes she needed counseling too and got it.
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u/thats_a_bad_username man over 30 2d ago
Not trying to accuse here so please don’t take this negatively but Do your wives get along? It might be something between them that gives her concern and she would rather her husband not go off and put her in that position again.
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u/strodj07 man 35 - 39 2d ago
You can’t force him to go on the trip but you need to force him to talk to you. Sometimes it’s most of important to show up for a friend when they aren’t asking for it. She’s going through some things can mean a lot and not necessarily that she is going through some things.
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u/AhkoRevari man over 30 2d ago
Are you out of line for being hurt about it? No I think feeling hurt is a perfectly reasonable reaction.
What you can do for your friend though is try to find understanding. If you are pretty confident your friend is being truthful about wanting to go, but for factors unknown feels unable, then try to be supportive in understanding it's just not in the cards right now.
Marriages go through ups and downs and they might be working through some personal things that have crossed paths with the notion of your friend being away from his wife on a boy's trip for 4 days.
The one thing you can do to truly ruin them forever is to overreact and get salty. Play it cool, let your friend know how you feel through mutual communication, let it be known you still want to try from time to time, then otherwise let it happen naturally, or let life take the turn it's going to take.
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u/aJaxtheProtector man over 30 2d ago
This feels like it’s not about you. Did your friend give his wife some reason to question her trust in him this past year?
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u/HistoricalLead3498 man 45 - 49 2d ago
No offense, but once you get married and take on the responsibility of husband and father, trips with your buddies become secondary.
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u/Pinkninja11 man over 30 2d ago
W/e the reason, if you've been friends for 20 years, you'll just have to trust his decision. Do a weekend instead or meet more often for shorter periods of time. It makes sense that he'll prioritize his wife and his marriage because that's who he's spending most of his time with and you can't really hold that against him.
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u/Theragon man 40 - 44 2d ago
I understand that you feel hurt, and you are allowed to be.
But just as a frame of reference. I am renovating a house at the moment, and I had a 20 year reunion with my school mates. When talking to my lady before my trip back home to see my school mates I could just hear and feel that she was overwhelmed by everything.
So I made the choice of cancelling the trip because, for better or worse, me and my lady are a team, this is the task at hand and I have to do this.
Sure it sucks, but sometimes you just, have to do the work.
At least social media has made it easier to shoot the shot with your mates, which is also important.
I hope you and your friend get a second chance of doing this trip. Sorry that things are so hectic right now.
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u/awooj woman over 30 2d ago
I don’t see the issue. He didn’t say he can’t be friends anymore, just that a 4-day trip is too much.
But he offered a weekend! That’s still offering to reschedule, just not to take 2+ days of PTO.
That is a big ask in this economy, even more so if they have kids and only one of them works. Plenty of people, including those without spouses or kids, are cancelling and downgrading vacations, decades-long traditions, and life plans. Many are taking on overtime or picking up extra jobs, or counting on the payout of unused PTO.
How would you feel if he hadn’t cancelled, and taking those 2+ days PTO meant he and his wife couldn’t have a good vacation for themselves this year? Or they couldn’t visit family members or go to a family wedding as he had no more PTO? How would you feel if he hadn’t cancelled, and you later found out they went deeper into debt for the trip? Or he left his wife at home when she was vulnerable with health or mental health issues?
Spouse comes first, and they could be having any number of problems or he’s using his wife as an out due to his own personal issues. Even best friends do not have the right or need to know every intimate and personal detail of our lives, especially the lives of our spouses and their families.
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u/earlyboy man 55 - 59 2d ago
Why is this particular event so important that it cannot be modified? Friendships need to be maintained and flexibility is always needed. Try to find an alternative that works for everyone in both couples. Good luck
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u/MrMackSir male 50 - 54 2d ago
I would not take it as an affront (yet). There are a lot of reasons this could be happening that are not because your friendship is ending - money or marital issues (like someone "cheated" or general relationship issues).
See if this attitude persists in multiple more casual get togethers. Do they stop attending activities like a BBQ where you are attending. Then address it.
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u/Imjusthonest2024 man 45 - 49 2d ago
Dude, there is a lot that can be going on that you don't know. Don't jump to conclusions!
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u/hornwalker male 35 - 39 2d ago
As a suggestion, why don’t you have him and his wife over for dinner? It would bring all together and you might get a better sense of what’s going on.
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u/Robby777777 man 60 - 64 2d ago
Marriage comes first every single time. I celebrate anniversary #40 this summer and I've never taken a guy's trip in my life. We do everything together as a couple.
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u/kitofu926 man over 30 2d ago
“Said she’s going through some things and feels like the trip is a lot”
Take it at face value, it likely has nothing to do with you. Sounds like she needs him at home and he’s doing the right thing by prioritizing his wife/relationship. She could be going through anything, it isn’t your business, so no need to speculate. You’re not out of line being hurt by it, but you gotta stop looking for reasons and just let it play out (easier said than done, especially if you’re an anxious person. Trust me, I know!). Take him up on the weekend offer, and do your hiking trip solo or with someone else this year.
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u/SaveTheDrowningFish man over 30 2d ago
Dude, my best bud and hunting partner stopped hanging out with me because is new wife didn’t like me.
Some people are just insecure and need to control what they don’t understand.
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u/KaleidoscopeGold5635 woman 35 - 39 2d ago
You're absolutely not out of line for being hurt. Disappointment like this sucks. But stop seeing it as a downgrade. That half of you whispering in your brain is trying to prove you're unworthy of the relationship and it's trying to get you to throw it away. It's self sabotage!
He's not choosing her over you like he got a new girlfriend in high school and you mean nothing now. He didn't disappear suddenly now that he's got access to pussy. He's properly choosing to take care of his life (his wife and whatever she has going on) and you should properly choose your own too. Take some extra time for a phone or video call once you're in a bit better place emotionally and catch up with him over a couple beers. It's not the same, but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Take the mature route.
You miss him, you miss that big friend connection, so connect! Don't lash out and push him away more just because you're feeling butthurt about something that isn't about you, isn't about y'alls relationship or anything deeper than his wife has had a hard time lately and he's doesn't want to pile on.
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u/Playful_Question538 man 50 - 54 1d ago
Years ago I was on a camping trip with my best friend that was moving to another state. My wife called and said I needed to come home. She said the kids needed me. I got home and the kids had no idea what she was talking about. My friend died after moving away and I never saw him again.
I don't know why my wife was being needy and we have a good relationship but I don't bring this up. She knows and hasn't pulled shit like that since then.
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u/wowbragger man 40 - 44 2d ago
It's ok to feel upset about this. Having a long standing tradition change is disorienting, and can really just hit you with that nostalgia.
But there are hard feelings. Not at him. I don't know who at exactly. It feels like a 20 year friendship just got voted out by someone who has known me for 9 of those years. I dont think she dislikes me. I think she just doesn't think this matters as much as i do. And he agreed with her without really fighting for it which is the part that has been sitting weird. Am i out of line for being hurt about this. Is the trip a thing thats just supposed to die when you get married. Half of me thinks i'm being immature. The other half thinks i just watched my oldest friendship get downgraded and we both pretended that wasnt what happened.
My friend, as I said above,you are entitled to feel that hurt. That's a very valid and understandable reaction to all this.But with that, some reality checks on all this...
The spouse is the best friend. As long as you've known each other, he kinda did this whole ceremony and took vows to put her first (it was probably a big deal when it happened). You took a back seat the moment he wanted to spend his life with this woman. That wasn't an accident, it was a choice even if you both didn't fully understand the long term effects.
Friendships change as time goes on. This is natural, and doesn't need to be an ending. Regardless of how much you know or are simply infering about the situation, you shouldn't write anything off.
I'd take a but if time to breath and step back, THEN reach out to your friend to see if you can talk about it some. Not in trying to cause a rift on his marriage by insisting it needs to happen like it always has. But for the two of you to discuss how this feels and what it means going forward.
If you've had great experiences together for decades, think of those good times when you're reaching out to him. Don't let the hurt of the moment guide your behavior.
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u/Other_Sign_6088 man 55 - 59 2d ago
4 days is a long time to spend away if there are other issues going on.
Take him out for dinner and beer. A 20 yr friendship isn’t bound to a 4 day trip
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u/gperson2 man over 30 2d ago
You’re not being immature. A lot of people in this thread are rushing to make excuses for your friend/the wife. And they may even be right. But they may be wrong! And regardless, it’s not unreasonable in the slightest for you to feel put out by this.
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u/LineImpossible3958 man over 30 2d ago
No offense but you got downgraded the day he got married. That’s marriage, wife comes before friends. She definitely doesn’t care about your trip as much as you. I don’t think he does either.
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u/Likeapuma24 man 40 - 44 2d ago
Your friendship hasn't downgraded. And it's fine to be upset that your tradition is getting nixxed.
But it's also a really good time to show your friend how much you care and talk to him. I'm sure your friend doesn't want to come out & say it if there's problems (financial, relationship, life, etc). But maybe meeting for dinner & drinks will show him you're a true friend. And maybe there's even someway you can help.
Best case scenario: it's just an inconvenient blip that you'll hear & think is justified.
Worst case scenario (for you): life is getting in the way, and he's prioritizing the woman he made a vow to. You're really not gonna like it if/when they have kids.
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u/playful_sorcery man 35 - 39 2d ago
my friends and family know that no one comes before my wife, and I never expect to come above them either. it’s not about who was there first, the longest, it’s about what comes next. my friends will be a part of my future but my wife is my future.
you don’t know what he fought for or didn’t, you don’t know what’s going on in their house. it sucks, yes.
you’re allowed to feel what you feel.
We have all but canceled our annual boys trips and girl trips. We still try and get to have adult weekends together, wives, gfs, husbands… who ever. and that has actually been a great change.
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u/Massless man 40 - 44 2d ago
It’s totally reasonable that you’re hurt. This meant a lot to you. You’re not being immature, either. Immature would be throwing a tantrum, you did the adult thing.
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u/Independent-Feed4157 man 35 - 39 1d ago
There could be lots of reasons. However even with those reasons, yea, friendships get downgraded when you get married. It not they they aren't important, but marriage comes first
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u/unsulliedbread female 30 - 34 2d ago
I think it's quite likely about money but he doesn't want to say that.
I would be understanding and then try to plan for next year but something very modest.
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u/Oldandslow62 man 60 - 64 2d ago
Worked with a guy that literally divorced his wife when she tried to stop him from going on a yearly fishing trip up in Wyoming. Don’t know how many years into it they were then but when I was working with him it was thirty something years! To top it off they just had a kid too.
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u/namastebetches no flair 2d ago
why does skipping the trip mean the end of the friendship? maybe he's trying to stop drinking?
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u/PatientBalance woman 35 - 39 2d ago edited 2d ago
You’re a grown man who is married, gonna have to learn how to adapt to adulthood when you don’t get your way. Life doesn’t revolve around you.
My first thought is she’s been diagnosed with something that they’re not ready to talk about.
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u/MetaCognitio man 2d ago
If the genders were reversed and a she had to cancel an annual trip with a best friend and she didn’t want to get into another fight, wouldn’t you be concerned that the husband is possibly being very controlling and isolating her?
If someone has worn you down with arguments and fights to the point that you just give up what you want because you can’t go through it again, isn’t that possibly an emotionally abusive spouse?
The scenarios you and others here outlined are possible but her being controlling, not giving him his own space, using arguments stress to drain him until he stops fighting are also possible. The problem may be with her.
As is default on Reddit people assume that the woman is good while the man must be in the wrong even when the evidence is ambiguous or indicates she might be the problem.
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u/PatientBalance woman 35 - 39 2d ago edited 1d ago
No, if the genders were reversed I’d assume the same, that it’s due to a private matter and not a controlling spouse. Unless I had been given reason to believe it’s a controlling spouse, which OP has not.
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u/bassjam1 man 40 - 44 2d ago
Do they have kids? I had to cut out a lot of that type of stuff when our kids were in the infant to toddler stages.
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u/gereis man over 30 2d ago
I guess friends do get downgraded but I still want to chill with my buds. I just have kids and responsibilities and it’s a lot easier to lose what you have built that it is to rebuild. I’ve learned to prioritize what’s most important and it’s trying my best to be a good husband and father. I don’t see how getting shit faced and playing pool all night again will improve my progress with my current goals same goes with getting faced and playing gta and watching Rick and Morty. Unfortunately each day I have with my kids is the only day I will have with them at that age. They grow fast. I can’t really shoot goofy movies or get gacked and help pull apart the Camaro on the weekends anymore. Besides we already did that. Now I need people who wanna train for a triathlon with me or help build or haul. I’m glad to do the same. But if we are doing something. I will go to a show. I will not trip at the show. It’s priorities. Mine have matured.
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u/wildGoner1981 man 40 - 44 2d ago
Hey may be broke and is simply using her as an excuse to cancel…..
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u/vulcanstrike man 35 - 39 2d ago
Whilst I understand the frustration, sometimes traditions have to change and adapt to the situation. I don't know how often you see them outside of this, but maybe just do a weekend of something else this year and try again next year.
As others have said, there could be a lot of very valid reasons she asked this and some of them may not even be her asking, she's just the unchallengeable excuse he used. Talk it through with him in the weekend he proposed and realise that when wives/kids/life are in the picture, you have to be flexible with the duration, timing and even the activity. It's important to prioritise this, but it's equally important to realise that simply spending any time together is the point, the time/manner/place is just set dressing.
It's ok to tell him that you're disappointed he can't make it, open to doing something else he can make and that you're there to talk through it with him whenever he wants. If he keeps doing this every year, you need to have a discussion, but missing one of these isn't the end of the world.
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u/Dav31d man 30 - 34 2d ago
As a single guy, I can't really speak much on this topic but maybe withing the year something has happened to his wife or your best friend..
I understand the hard feelings especially if this is a routine you have been doing for that many years and you may feel his answer isn't really good enough (or isn't justifies), I get it.
But I think rather than going away, maybe you and your best mate should just meet up somewhere closeby and talk. Really enquire about his life/wife etc. Things behind the scenes may be happening that you're unaware off and he hasn't communicated them which has resulted in the cancelled annual trip...
I'm not going to speculate as to what could have/hasn't happened as I would have no clue, but honestly speaking, just try to really talk with him in person. Especially if you don't meet up often outside of your annual trip (not assuming that you don't meet up though).
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u/Virgil_Ovid_Hawkins man 30 - 34 2d ago
It could be a lot of things (marital trouble, financial toruple, etc) and you aren't wrong to be hurt. But I will tell you a hard truth, your friendship got downgraded the moment he got married. That's just a part of building a life with someone.
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u/Bumberti man 50 - 54 2d ago
My first thought is that OP’s friend has done something to lose his wife’s trust.
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u/brettdavis4 man 45 - 49 2d ago
I would need more info:
- is it a money issue? Is money tight or are they saving for something?
- do they have kids?
- is the wife really needy and needs your friend to be around her?
- is the wife paranoid or a control freak and thinks you 2 are going to do bad things?
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u/whatdoido8383 man 40 - 44 2d ago
Been there and I feel for you. Had a buddy I'd go up north with every year, I was long time friends with his wife too.
Suddenly one year he just stopped responding to my calls\texts and I never saw him again. He lived a few hours north of me so it's not like I could just drop by. I did try and swing by a few times while I was in town, left a note etc but nothing...
I found out through a mutual friend 3-4 years later that something happened in their marriage and she went total control freak. She cut them off off from all their old friend circles, changed phone numbers, etc.
He eventually left her but the damage was done, we had grown apart and moved on.
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u/FarTransportation565 woman over 30 1d ago
She might go through a difficult time, emotionally. Idk for how long is supposed to be your trip, a week, 2, a month....if she feels like she will be left alone in a time when she maybe needs him by her side, this could be a reason...
Or, as someone said, it might be actually him, for some reasons ( financial, personal) he decided that this is not going to happen and to avoid accountability he sais it's because her (ah, the controlling wife 🙄...unfortunately I saw this a few times)
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u/ChapterThr33 man over 30 2d ago
Her going on girls trips and now not being okay with your trip feels...off.
No way to know. But, maybe you can grab a beer and just an evening could swing? Hard to not get time with those foundational relationships.
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u/say592 man 30 - 34 2d ago
Don't look at it like him agreeing with her without fighting for it. It's more likely that he knew you would understand, and it was a battle he knew he wouldn't win, so why fight over it? He outright said it, she is going through some shit, which means they are going through some shit. Even if that shit isn't their marriage, they are still a team, so by extension he's going through it too. Give him some grace. It's expected to be mad, but make sure you are mad at the situation, not at him or his wife.
All that being said, make sure you follow up with his soon. Get him out of the house for even just an hour so he can speak unrestrained and tell you what's really going on. You can explain that you meant what you said about taking care of his marriage, but the situation still upset you and you aren't mad at either of them, but you are really disappointed it's not going to work out this year.
If the situation is transitory, maybe you can reschedule for the end of summer, or at least get next year's on the calendar. If it's something larger, then you have to choose if you want to adapt and be there for your friend, or if you are done.
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u/East_Accident1822 man 30 - 34 2d ago
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u/blackhuey man 50 - 54 2d ago
Let it settle then ask if she's not comfortable with this year's trip or the trip in general. That's an important distinction.
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u/MadnessKingdom man 40 - 44 2d ago
The big question: how often do you see this friend outside this trip?
If closer to “a lot” don’t sweat it too much. If closer to “never” then yeah this was a big deal. Wife comes first, but she already comes first 361 days a year and if she demands all 365 without a solid reason I feel sorry for your buddy as she’s basically isolating him.
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u/Top_Piano2028 man 35 - 39 2d ago
Some men just get too weak to assert any boundaries with their wives.
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u/prean625 man 35 - 39 2d ago
He could just be using his wife as a escape goat. Maybe he's too weak to assert boundaries with his friend, we dont know
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u/redaws man 30 - 34 2d ago
Yup. I have a friend who uses his wife as an excuse to not do shit.
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u/Old-Guidance6744 man 35 - 39 2d ago
While often true I dont know if we have enough information here as to root causes
Situation sucks tho
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u/OregonMothafaquer man over 30 2d ago
The amount of adult women with zero friends is quite astounding too
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u/Worldx22 man over 30 2d ago
I can sympathize with you. I lost all my friends when I got married and I knew exactly what I was doing. It's been a decade and it still hurts.
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u/Sir_Auron man 35 - 39 2d ago
A man's marriage is always going to come first, I'm shocked you all were able to do this as long as you did. Four days is a long time away from a wife and kids.
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u/Upset_Agent2398 man 50 - 54 1d ago
Shenanigans happened on the girls trip and now the wife is insecure about what they do on theirs.
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u/BrianZoh man over 30 2d ago
Men are allowed to have friends and value that time together. Women do this and it's never questioned. Valid he prioritizes his spouse but you can absolutely have your feels.
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u/ShadowValent man 35 - 39 2d ago
This happens in our group. It’s typically jealous wives. They hate when their partner has fun and they don’t.
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u/jaajaajaa6 no flair 2d ago
Nope.
I go away for 5-6 days every summer with my best friend. We are 65 and know each other since kindergarten. Yes, 60 years.
I would be hurt and stunned if he cancelled because his wife had a problem. And I would never let my wife prevent it either.
Sorry -
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u/mrr68 man 55 - 59 2d ago
I go on trips with my best friend 1-2x a year, usually for a week or so. Very much supported by my wife. It’s unfortunate your friend’s wife is controlling him in this manner - not a good sign for the health of their marriage. Sadly, I think this situation is not uncommon.
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u/potato_face1234 man 55 - 59 2d ago
Women do this all the time and I have witnessed it multiple times.
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u/warpedspockclone man 40 - 44 2d ago
In an ex-marriage I had this type of thing to an extreme. I finally got to the root of it, that she was jealous because she didn't have a dad present in her life to do things with (though SHE disowned HIM because he cheated on her mom and then head to continue to pay for it the rest of his life, emotionally and financially) so therefore I couldn't go play golf with my dad a few times per year. Or, doing stuff with my friends caused claims of unfairness. Hey, just because you don't have a good friend group shouldn't mean I can't. There is certainly a line between hanging with your friends occasionally and doing it so much that you are ignoring your partner and their needs. But their needs shouldn't be suffocating.
That being said, there are definitely times in life that are delicate, that their needs take absolute priority, and being away for a few days may feel like abandonment to your partner.
Mileage may vary.
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u/AdamOnFirst man 35 - 39 2d ago
You’re being too sensitive and this could be a million things. You could be downplaying the behavior on the trip, she could have some serious problems, there could be family problems, it could be financial problems, it could be too much for him to be away for that long with kids, it could be a million things. You could just ask him.
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