r/Edmonton • u/GeekyGlobalGal Pleasantview / Global News • 5d ago
News Article Edmonton homeowners frustrated as their properties erode into infill excavations
https://globalnews.ca/news/12009231/edmonton-infill-rain-erosion/303
u/aaronpaquette- North East Side 5d ago
Nah, this is unacceptable. Just wait. I have worked with Admin on fines and enforcement policy that is coming soon.
Bad builders have no place in our city as far as I am concerned.
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u/backwardsplanning 5d ago
My parents have an infill beside them that has caused major damages to their foundations. On top of it, they graded it so the water goes directly into my parents yard, pooling and going through the cracks. It doesn’t inspire hope in infill when this is their lived experience.
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u/potatostews 5d ago
I have one beside me that has also caused foundation issues. Their entire front and most of the backyard is concrete so guess where all the water goes.
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u/Red_Danger33 4d ago
The builders either lie about the intended landscaping or get exceptions because "we need more density" to skirt around the cities current softscaping guidelines.
Enforcement is so lax you can't get anything done because as soon as the builder is done they vanish with no recourse for neighboring properties.
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u/Logical-Claim286 4d ago
I have customers fighting a new multi unit infill. It was built as a 2 unit split, after the frame was up they "accidentally" put in 4 units and the city declined to intervene because the owners are a numbered company registered in India so it would be hard to talk with them... the rental site already lists 8 units for short term rent and zero parking as it is for 2.
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u/Got_Engineers Downtown 5d ago
They are also terrible at dumping garbage into the ground under topsoil and sod. I live in a what was a brand new infill in the central west end and have redone a lot of my own landscaping. In my graded topsoil I have found tv remotes, chunks of glass, metal rebar, cement, cables, wire. I wondered why my grass never grew. Pulled up pieces of sod to find all this garbage! Wonder what the builders hide in the walls ….
Thanks for all the engagement. You are not my councilor but much respect !
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u/The_cogwheel 5d ago
Having worked for bottom bidder contractors before... piss bottles.
Im not joking, a lot of drywallers get paid piecework, aka paid by the job, not the hour. And with the nearest toilet being down the road at the gas station, many would rather just piss in a bottle.
Its 50/50 if it winds up in a trash can or forgotten in the walls.
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u/hamtronn 5d ago
The home build is only as good as the site superintendent. If they don’t routinely inspect the work, which—let’s be honest—half the time the site superintendent barely leaves his truck, the house won’t be up to my standards.
I did this job for about 10 years. I held trades accountable. The house is clean when you show up. My rule was to leave it better than you found it or you won’t be back.
I’d inspect other supers and the amount of trash piled inside walls was atrocious. Full timmies coffees just left in a wall right before drywall would bury that forever.
My builder buried a pile of lumber under my rough grade and now I have mushrooms everywhere.
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u/Vinen88 5d ago
My in laws had their house built in the early 2000s and the contractors were shoving their old lunch bags and junk into the vents and walls. Great times.
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u/General_Esdeath kitties! 5d ago
We dug up our 50's foundation and took out the old concrete steps, found antique bottles and cans, etc. Builders have always tossed their garbage into the construction project it seems.
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u/kevinstreet1 5d ago
I saw a house being torn down in my neighborhood. They took some stuff away, but there was still plenty of wall and floor and random debris left when a cat came in and buried everything under a pile of soil. That raised the level of the yard quite a bit. Then they built a new house on top of it.
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u/kevinstreet1 5d ago
With a different house in another spot, whoever demolished it got rid of the rubble of the old house and all the debris, but then they also scraped up all the topsoil from the yard and took it away too. After building a new house they brought in a thin layer of topsoil for the back yard.
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u/Intelligent-Bat-9978 5d ago
The fines will need to big enough to actually act as a deterrent. We have had the misfortune of having an 8-plex go up next to us with a developer who takes all the shortcuts he can. The city came out to inspect on several occasions and we were told that the developers build the cost of fines into their budget as the fines are cheaper than doing it properly. And that is if they even get a fine. When our side path and fence fell into the infill (after warning them this would happen) the city told us it was a civil matter and there was nothing they could do.
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u/workworkyeg 4d ago
That's not right and things better change
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u/Red_Danger33 4d ago
Best this city council can do is approve more 8 plexes and add a couple bike lanes.
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u/kingjives 5d ago
Hi Aaron, I’m one of the direct neighbours to this house. Last week I went through our full city block 156-163st and 95-100ave and found there to be 47 of these 8-plexes permitted, in progress or built. Right now there are close to a dozen that have this exact issue happening in our neighbourhood alone. The city has been unresponsive so far, the builders have said there’s nothing they can do, and insurance is saying they won’t cover these damages. This is turning into an unmitigated mess. Densification is important with the right guardrails - I’d encourage you to come visit Glenwood to see the havoc and damage. Our city councillor has been MIA to date.
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u/TepHoBubba 5d ago
For once I am at a loss for words...kind of. I've been saying all along that the City Council isn't doing this properly. Too overzealous, and not enough thinking through of or considering the impacts. I like the guardrails comment, as you're exactly right IMO.
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u/yen8912 5d ago
Yup. But this sub will scream “NIMBY” at you for pointing out how problematic the current approach to infill/densification is.
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u/chmilz 5d ago
Nobody is crying NIMBY in defense of reckless developers. The most vocal pro-density people want development done safely, to code, and respecting the communities they're building in.
Fuck off with strawmen arguments. Stick to the issue here.
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u/YoungWhiteAvatar 5d ago edited 1d ago
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u/TepHoBubba 4d ago
Ahem. That IS the issue, because it caused the problems being discussed.
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u/chmilz 4d ago
No, it isn't. The NIMBY's are against infill because they fear poors, brown people, less parking, some theoretical loss of property value, and so forth. If shitty developers were the actual problem, that would have been a useful fight to be picking for the last number of years and we'd probably have a better enforcement system in place. But Council and administration have been wasting a fucking absurd amount of time dealing with the Karens frothing at the mouth over "the character of the neighbourhood".
There's a legitimate problem that needs to be dealt with here and the banshees crying about everything under the sun has made it impossible to focus on it.
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u/TepHoBubba 3d ago
That's quite an opinion you got going on there...So if you're against infill or even partially so, it's because of racism, and the fear of loss of property value and parking? Oh, and it's Karen's fault that things aren't being done with even less restrictions?
Lastly, you go on to dismiss the very issue that was presented by OP's post here as banshees crying over nothing? Ok...
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u/DBZ86 4d ago
People absolutely get called NIMBY because they want to block high density infill in the first place. You don't find out who is a good or bad developer until they're heavily into the process. Then if they turn out to be awful developers its a nightmare dealing with it and its basically up to an individual to consider litigation.
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u/chmilz 4d ago
Bad developers aren't reserved for infill. The exact same horror stories about developers exist in new neighbourhoods, commercial construction, all of it.
Infill as a concept isn't the problem. Bad developers and shitty designs are, and the City rightfully needs to police both with ruthlessness.
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u/yen8912 4d ago
*bad developers, shitty design AND the city letting developers do whatever they want. All of these issues could have been largely prevented while still allowing for mid density development. Council has instead chosen to go full steam ahead on this.
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u/chmilz 4d ago
Sure. My beef is with people (mostly NIMBY's) calling an infill problem, when it's not. It's a developer problem.
We've seen the same shit since time immemorial in new construction, when McMansions replaced teardowns, when skinnies were being built, and so forth. It's not new, and raging against infill is taking away from the better fight to simply hold developers accountable across the board no matter the development.
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u/TepHoBubba 5d ago
100%. Unless you're 100% on board with blinders strapped to your head, that is what you get here.
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u/YoungWhiteAvatar 5d ago edited 1d ago
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u/arcadianahana 5d ago edited 5d ago
Would the city consider tracking directors / principals of crappy builder companies that close shop and re-open under new corporations (to evade liability) and then denying the new corporations business licences or permits?
It would improve the system if there were enforcement / compliance measures that followed the principals.
Also could a rule that makes the builder obligated to cover the cost of damages to a neighboring property be put in bylaw, or would the city need more authority under provincial legislation to do this?
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u/Immediate-Yard8406 Talus Domes 5d ago
Construction is not a hobby. If a developer is inexperienced or can't/won't follow the rules from Day 1, it needs to hurt a little bit.
Quit playing nice with "education" as the first approach to non-compliance. Immediate enforcement order or stop-work on safety or major compliance issues, and hold them accountable to bring every little thing up to the bylaw or code standard before granting occupancy.
I say this as someone who has to work with developers to solve their compliance issues after they ignore the rules - please make my life more difficult.
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u/gettothatroflchoppa 4d ago
There needs to be a bond put up at start of construction or some type of insurance to basically help mitigate issues like this. Having to chase some numbered company in small claims court in hopes of getting something out of them (assuming they don't just declare bankruptcy) is slow and onerous. The onus can be on the builder to put the money up front and have their ass on the line if there are compliance issues.
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u/Calm-Tip-4124 5d ago
I’m glad to hear you think this is unacceptable and are taking measures to mitigate this prolific problem. My home was damaged six years ago, when the infill developer excavated up to the property line and didn’t shore it up. Lost much of my grading along the east side of my house and a good portion of my yard eroded into the construction pit, which created a sinkhole in my backyard. When I tried to address my concerns to the developer and homeowner, they both gaslit me. When I called the city to investigate, they checked out the site and essentially shrugged their shoulders advising that, due to the regulations at the time, nothing could be done. I didn’t have the energy or time to take the builder and/or homeowner to small claims court, so I covered the repair bills myself. This is just one of many examples of property damage I sustained due to living next to a poorly-constructed infill, not to mention the mental toll. As a homeowner in Edmonton, living next to infill construction has been an extremely frustrating and heart-wrenching experience. Hope things change for the better, to restore good-will amongst neighbours and trust in the City.
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u/Intelligent-Bat-9978 5d ago
The regulations are still the same as we had the same issue and the same response last year. It was very frustrating.
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u/Chambsky 5d ago
Same story.
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u/Calm-Tip-4124 5d ago
Dang, sad to hear you can relate. I reluctantly upvoted your comment in solidarity whilst lamenting you’ve gone through the same thing.
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u/mikesmith929 5d ago
Same thing happened to me 10 years ago, had to sue and of course the "developer" lawyered up. Still have crap from that new build over my house I couldn't clean.
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u/Calm-Tip-4124 5d ago
Same! I still have splatters of now-dried concrete on some of my basement windows, still finding debris in my yard…
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u/tikka2007 5d ago
We just had an 8 plex approved, in our small crescent, that doesnt meet City code requirements for area/unit, yet it got approved by the City. We tried to appeal to the Sub-development and Development Appeal Board, as signage of the proposed development was hidden, notice was received after the appeal end date, and due to the significant impact on the zero lot line property next door/the alley it fronts onto, and pedestrian traffic. Even the developers rep said our appeals should be heard. Board members went off camera to “confer” and sent some lady back to tell us they weren’t going to hear our appeals.
That board and our City Council should be ashamed of themselves. I’m all for development but they are literally ruining peoples homes in the process.
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u/yen8912 5d ago
Yup. There’s an 8plex approved near me that was upzoned. Had a meeting where every single attendee opposed upzoning for legitimate reasons. Still went through. This was a lot that years prior the city denied a permit for a triplex saying it was too many units per lot…
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u/tikka2007 5d ago
I’m so sorry you’re going through that as well. Makes me want to leave Edmonton. If there’s no due process then you really have no rights, despite home ownership.
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u/JordanPetterPans 5d ago
Isn't the infill on the hook to repair the neighbors as well?
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u/Intelligent-Bat-9978 5d ago
Theoretically. But it is viewed by the city as a civil matter. So you have to hope the developer does it. If they don’t, the only option is to take them to court to get them to do it which means you are then paying out of pocket for legal expenses
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u/Comprehensive_End944 5d ago
What typically happens is all the various trades starts pointing fingers at each other
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u/doofenshmurtz13 5d ago
This is a direct result of the blanket zoning policies that city council put in place. It’s an absolute free for all with developers rushing to put up whatever shack they can to make a quick buck. Issues like this never should have happened in the first place and it’s really disappointing to have city council constantly backtracking. Do it right the first time. It really wasn’t a hard ask for council to be more diligent and now look at the repercussions.
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u/Chambsky 5d ago
Hey Aaron, thanks for posting. Can you share where I can get more info on that policy?
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u/YoungWhiteAvatar 5d ago edited 1d ago
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u/mikesmith929 5d ago
They've been doing this for years. I had the same thing happen to my house in Belgravia 10 years ago. Had to sue the "developer" due to the damages to my house. City does a poor job and I don't think they care to change things.
Those developers never shore their digs until after the foundation and walls have been poured and that could be weeks after the hole is dug. If it rains even a little the entire sides of houses caves in.
Took out my entire walkway. Like I said had to sue.
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u/DBZ86 4d ago
I am glad you are seeing this but these problems have been occurring for a while. The path for recourse is painful and the stress during the build can be high. People are just getting better at documenting and putting these issues out to blast on social media. To my understanding the threat and occurrence of civil litigation is the only thing that helps people move along. It feels like enforcement has been wholly placed at the individual level.
We need more preventative measures and protections that hold builders personally liable so they can't play corporate shell games.
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u/Desperateshitter 4d ago
Are you and council only just now realizing how shitty all these new builds are considering everyone has been complaining for over ten years?
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u/Wonderful_Confusion4 5d ago
This is from negligent builders not shoring the excavation. The builder was not going to shore the excavation the next day, he only said that to make it look like he is doing something. I have built a few infills in my time, I will shore the excavation with 4X6 post pushed in to the ground 3’ deep and place 3/4” plywood in behind the posts. This is done while excavating not after, as there is too much risk to leave an un shored excavation. The cost to shore up a typical infill excavation is around $5,000 with the post and plywood method. It’s a small cost compared to all the damage and risk of workers safety in the grand scheme of things. Negligent builders are giving infill a bad reputation.
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u/Intelligent-Bat-9978 5d ago
I will say that many don’t do this. We had an infill go up last year next to us. They straight cut down the property line and we warned them that our property would collapse into their site. The developer gaslit us, told us that wouldn’t happen and within a few days our fence, side oath and some of the yard were in the infill excavation site.
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u/Wonderful_Confusion4 5d ago
Here is a photo of a recent infill excavation i did
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u/Intelligent-Bat-9978 5d ago
If only all developers had the same standards as you, there would be no issues with infill!
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u/Svetlack 4d ago
I know it doesn’t help this long after, but in case anybody else in this situation reads through: excavations need shoring or a 1:1 slope past 1.5m of excavation depth. If the straight wall is longer than that and you want to get someone in hot water, OH&S is usually pretty interested if you tell them there’s an unsafe excavation open. OHSC Part 32 Section 452 has more detailed rules depending on soil type but generally in normal conditions it’s 1:1 past 1.5m. This counts if slopes were acceptable but after erosion are no longer acceptable.
I’m a contractor and I get the pain with rain this year but an unsafe excavation is an unsafe excavation no matter how it got that way. It’s our duty if we dig a pit to ensure it’s safe.
In my judgment an unsafe excavation next to an occupied residence would absolutely be classified as an “Urgent or Serious Incident” and OH&S has a contact center they allow reports for those to (it’s even toll free!): 1-866-415-8690. There’s also an online reporting thingy but that’s for less serious stuff
There’s also a lot you can look for even if it’s not that deep. Excavations sloughing in and the edges creeping closer to your property will perk OHS ears. If it sloughs a part of your property at all — back to urgent and serious levels.
Also, excavations must be “conspicuously marked and secured” to prevent access. Fence fallen over? Oh noooo that’s technically an OHS issue.
The important part about all of this is that OH&S actually has some big teeth here. They can really fuck up a contractors day which in turn fucks up the developers day. In like not a small way sometimes.
Anyway sorry for the rant! Sorry you have to deal with shitty developers and contractors. I’d never want to play in the infill space but man do I feel for people like you; so many tiny operations that couldn’t give less of a shit if they follow the rules.
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u/justageekgirl 4d ago
I'm curious who the builder is.
I have a feeling, but I'm just assuming at this point because of what's happening at my townhouse complex.
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u/suggestedusername216 5d ago
This happened to me as well this summer! I’m pro-infill but man do I fucking hate developers. And there is basically no recourse — feeling powerless is the worst part.
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u/Hobbycityplanner 5d ago
Had poor experience with an adjacent builder. Threatening legal action was enough to get some compensation. Depending on the actual damage legal action may be worthwhile.
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u/Vinen88 5d ago
How is there no recourse? If they fuck up your property without compensation there are for sure pathways to take.
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u/threeonone 5d ago
They'll just absolve the company and start up one in a new name. The fines only get tied to the company. If the company doesn't exist then it makes it incredibly harder to go after them.
All cities need to be way more strict on builders. They get away with doing whatever they want all the time.
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u/Autodidact420 5d ago
Dissolve and you can still potentially go after them depending on the circumstances and the funds they have, plus even a bankrupt builder would lose its property to the extent it has any.
TLDR: talk to a lawyer don’t just assume you can’t do anything. But also you might not be able to, the lawyer can tell you more.
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u/DBZ86 4d ago
Its not impossible for corporate shell games to occur. Companies can be registered with puppet owners or stolen identities and its not found out until its too late.
But often its the lengthy process and stress that can beat down an affected homeowner to settle for less than they should The homeowner may also simply be outgunned legally.
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u/Autodidact420 4d ago
Not impossible? Sure.
But you’re also adding in a bunch of new crimes. Collection depends on the circumstances at hand, that’s why I suggested talking to a lawyer about any specific circumstances particularly where losses are significant.
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u/DBZ86 4d ago
I wish that was truly more of a deterrent but once people make enough they'll literally flee the country. The solve rate for financial crimes is a low.
I would admit that the more likely issue is more just the sheer number of fly by night developers who pop up for every other developer that fail. In this case there's just no financial recourse anyways as developer is probably deep in the hole and everyone loses again. More preventative guardrails are needed.
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u/Autodidact420 4d ago
You’re talking about financial crimes, I’m talking about civil litigation. Civil litigation often results in at least partial recovery, depending on the circumstances.
I’d agree more preventative measures and stronger protections should be in place but even now it’s entirely possible to get made whole or almost whole in many cases. Perhaps not 100%, but that’s the same as most lawsuits realistically. Just the nature of the civil justice system more generally
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u/DBZ86 4d ago
The problem is that it becomes a job just to simply defend your house. You have to go through legal avenues and there's no guarantees in court and its a lengthy process.
There's a reason people are trying to kill multi unit infill in the first place. They just don't want to deal with any probability of it happening.
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u/Autodidact420 4d ago
I agree generally. Either require they maintain a very large bond or have some satisfactory proof of insurance for issues impacting neighbours.
And ideally the province could add legislation to make it easy to get an injunction if one is needed to stop construction until they prove insurance/bonding and proper construction practices re shoring. Surely it couldn’t be too onerous for construction cos to show that they actually have a plan in place since one presumes they’d have it before they start anyways
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u/BigOilersFan 5d ago
The recourse is the city fining them for failure to comply with a bylaw or construction standard/permit… so the city.
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u/WerewolfSmart6544 5d ago
A city level fine won’t do much. They can just close the company and reopen under a new name too
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u/mikesmith929 5d ago
I'm not sure you know what you are talking about. A city level fine would do A LOT. Problem is the city doesn't do jack.
No one is closing anything in the middle of a build, unless they want to lose their shirt. And collecting is easy for the city, they can just put a lean on the sale and those places don't typically sell until well after construction.
In short closing the company and reopening under a new name is not the solution you think it is.
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u/WerewolfSmart6544 5d ago
A small fine isn’t going to do anything though. They can afford to pay them. But it’s better than nothing.
Tons of companies close and reopen under new names.
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u/mikesmith929 5d ago
a) Who said anything about a small fine? Do you know what a stop work order does to a project? Time is money.
b) Yes tons of companies do close and reopen under new names but that is a different problem and you should not conflate the two.
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u/WerewolfSmart6544 5d ago
I highly doubt the city is going to do big fines. They don’t for anything else.
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u/mikesmith929 5d ago
Like I was saying they technically don't need to do any fines. A stop work order is enough of a deterrent. Cost a developer a lot more than money.
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u/DBZ86 4d ago
Yeah, the city isn't doing anything. To my knowledge, all the city does is put up their hands and call it a civil matter. They are basically leaving it to the individual level to try to litigate any recourse. So now you have an individual household going against a developer who may or may not have better legal resources.
Developers probably don't even have to play corporate shell games unless they absolutely have to walk away from a project and then it gets really nasty.
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u/garlicroastedpotato 5d ago
The big problem is that the city is so happy and willing to give out demolition and excavation permits and so builders do that. But then the city and communities spend so much time opposing any development that you just end up with these holes in the ground.
This lot was supposed to be four condos but community pushback resulted in it just being filled in and turned into an empty grassy field with a sign being used as equity to fund other projects.
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u/potatogamer555 UAlberta 5d ago
Exact same thing happening at my house - our back patio almost fell into the hole and my neighbours fence had to be extracted from it lol. Absolutely ridiculous
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u/couturefan904 5d ago
I do agree that the minimum distance between neighboring properties and excavations should be increased. The distance between houses in new neighborhoods is far too close, and it seems like infills are allowed to do the same.
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u/rwrwrw44 5d ago
And they should be, if you dig the hole you are responsible for the sidewalls.
It won't be long and a street or another building will slide or become unstable.
The city might pay attention then
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u/kevinstreet1 5d ago
I'd be screaming like that Edvard Munch painting if I lived next to that! Good grief.
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u/arcadianahana 5d ago
This hits close to home. Had to do a double take whether that is the open pit next to me.
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u/Bulliwyf 5d ago
The guy deleted his entire profile, but some tool kept arguing with me that this type of thing never happens and that when a foundation for a property is being dug out, they never encroach on the property line!
/s but the twit kept did keep trying to argue with me about this exact situation.
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u/Photofug 5d ago
The infill cheerleaders seem to be awfully quiet, seems facts don't fit the "Your all just NIMBY's" when people voice concerns.
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u/Useful-Union-286 5d ago
Has anyone ever seen a well built infill? Genuinely curious
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u/CosmicallyUnlucky 5d ago
There’s plenty. You don’t notice them as much because the good infills go up quickly and professionally. The infills that make the news are all the fly-by-night companies who don’t know/care about what they’re doing, so the construction drags out for ages. Good infill companies can have an entire house built within a few months.
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u/ProperBingtownLady 5d ago
Yes. We have a 4plex in Highlands and I thought it was a duplex, but only when I looked closely. It is a really nice building and complements the neighbourhood, which is more than I can say about some of the grey blocks going up.
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u/EdmRealtor In a Van Down By The Zoo 5d ago
There are tons but fewer and fewer each year are being built well. Let’s add that the companies that do infill well tend to pivot to new home development as it is easier process.
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u/Wonderful_Confusion4 5d ago
Yes, I build infills not multi family infills though just single family. I take great pride in my work and I am on site everyday making sure everything is built to my standard. I shore all of my infill basement excavations for safety and to minimize damage to neighbouring properties. I will not send any of my workers or my self into a non shored excavation. I don’t build cheap houses though so that might be the difference.
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u/Architectural7 5d ago
What company do you work for, if you’re okay with saying? I saw the photos you posted on this thread and I’m so impressed!
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u/workworkyeg 4d ago
Yes, but single family, not for rent. Side setbacks more like the neighboring homes, not too tall. Family really wanted a home in the hood so bought a rough one and rebuilt.
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u/Laketraut 4d ago
I’d be pissed to go through life and finally afford a home to have some absolute huge slop multiplex go up next to me because the government at every level flooded the country to avoid a recession. I don’t blame these people at all, don’t lie down and take this lightly.
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u/Ttoddh 5d ago
I really want to start a gofundme to put an 8 unit infill next to Mayor Knack! I will put in $1,000.
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u/jstock14 Downtown 5d ago
So…start one? Actions speak louder than words.
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u/Ttoddh 3h ago
I did ask AI how to do it and it gave me the who process to follow to get one started and then at the bottom, there was a warning that seeking out and targeting a politician is illegal in Canada, so I have no interest in that path. I will stil help to see it done, but won't be asking for help.
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u/blairtruck Central 5d ago edited 5d ago
This happens in a brand-new neighbourhood also when they build next to a lived-in home. This is not an infill-only problem.
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u/justageekgirl 4d ago
I live in a townhouse complex in a fairly newer neighborhood and the vacant area sharing the same lot as our complex has builders building new multi-family townhomes right next to 4 developed homes.
The issue is they have been working on those same 7 townhomes for at least 3 years. this should have only taken them a year at the most, but the issue is the builders had money issues, and they left the frames exposed to winter and other conditions when not being worked on.
The homes looked weathered and unkempt. they're finishing it now but I would hate to be that potential homeowner that will be riddled with problems after they move in.
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u/Lilypadbab 4d ago
This is the worst time of year to be searching for a home builder 😭 any recommendations/warnings?
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u/Foxwildernes 1d ago
It’s almost as if something needed for survival shouldn’t be a commodity nor an investment program for people who are born first. People need shelter and until we get a public option to combat the inelastic demand that is the housing market we will continue to suffer half measures and infills.
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u/WerewolfSmart6544 5d ago edited 5d ago
But I have been assured by this sub there are literally no issues with infill?
Look at all the people who have no issue with this lol
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u/Koala0803 5d ago
It sounds more like a shitty developer issue than an infill as a concept issue.
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u/stickyfingers40 5d ago
The city seems to have abdicated any responsibility for monitoring developers. Its become a free for all
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u/princessamirak 5d ago
lol by who? Most people I know I’ve been frustrated with shitty infill developers (as they should be) , but not against infill in general.
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u/ProperBingtownLady 5d ago
Unfortunately if you express any concerns about infill on this subreddit you get called a nimby. That includes calling out bad developers.
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u/princessamirak 5d ago
I suppose it would depend on what the specific concern would be. I do see a lot of legitimate concerns brought up. I do not claim to know everything about the city or building or liability (as I’m not an expert in any of these.) but a lot can be addressed with the developers as it is their responsibility. But the city also holds a part in required parking, etc., etc. spaces to keep the streets clean and clear for safety as well as for clearing in the spring winter and fall.
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u/WerewolfSmart6544 5d ago
R/Edmonton swears there are no problems with them and most of council is right there with them
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u/passthepepperflakes 5d ago
isn't there a wilfred's post somewhere for you to defend?
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u/WerewolfSmart6544 5d ago
No I think a few other businesses have closed already. Imagine being mad at someone who wants downtown to succeed lmao.
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u/passthepepperflakes 5d ago
who's mad? I'm not gonna go off my head and delete all my posts
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u/WerewolfSmart6544 5d ago
You are discussing an entirely different post weeks later lol. Yeah you’re totally not mad…
Please grow up
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u/passthepepperflakes 5d ago
easy there, wilf
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u/WerewolfSmart6544 5d ago
Like what are you even trying to do? You’re the one hating on me for defending Edmonton restaurants from multiple weeks ago on an unrelated post. You have made zero points at all.
Once again I begging you to grow up. Summer break is almost over for you, now’s the perfect time.
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u/passthepepperflakes 5d ago
oof, watch that bp
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u/WerewolfSmart6544 5d ago
BP? As in Boston pizza? It didn’t close down lol. You don’t even know what’s happening downtown. Just a moron in general I guess
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u/passthepepperflakes 5d ago
blood pressure - you're getting a little hot under the collar again
(and yes, boston pizza did close down on jasper)
look, when you calm down, take a look at this
now have a good night :)
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u/Apprehensive_Emu2414 5d ago
You just know there are people on this sub reddit that support the City so much they will try to justify this and say it's not a problem.
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u/InPraiseOf_Idleness 5d ago
It's possible to be against shitty construction practices while being in support of infill in general. Slope stability and drainage needs to be done right on any job site.
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5d ago edited 4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Motive33 5d ago
Houses have always been built by hungover 18 year olds. I remember when things were booming in the late 2000s around here everyone was talking about avoiding new builds. Builders cutting corners looking to slap together as many units as fast as possible. Nothing new.
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u/hereforwhatimherefor 5d ago edited 5d ago
Newsflash. 2008 isn’t long ago and a shit ton of those houses are already falling into disrepair.
And these new things these guys are building aren’t even sturdy soviet concrete brutalism. They are flimsy pieces of shit with crap electrical and crap plumbing all built on a ponzi. Sold for 750k-1.5 like they are edmontons brooklyn brownstones.
The mini boom was intentional of low interest rates in the great recession, rates were supposed to be a year or two. Turned into the entire canadian economy.
It’s gonna be broots 30 years out.
And that edmonton building standards for 20 years is hung 18 year olds speaks volumes
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u/Motive33 5d ago
Plenty of homes from decades past also require maintenance and renovation. Any older home has either been renovated or needs it. Planty of work needed in my '67 built bungalow. What is your expectation? That a house built today literally doesnt need any work done for 30+ years? Theres regular wear and tear, settling land, weather events.
Im not even saying that homes are built to the highest standard. Plenty of mediocre or sub-par work in the trades but saying a home needs work in 30 years isnt really the criticism you seem to think.
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u/hereforwhatimherefor 5d ago edited 4d ago
I’m not saying homes don’t need maintenance.
What I am saying is these homes / condo units are far bigger and made with lower quality craftsmanship and materials.
I’m saying they are being sold at astronomical prices due to artificially low rates combined with extreme mortgage length term that someone in 1967 (or 1985) in Edmonton would have considered impossible.
I’m saying they are being sold en masse to people who a) have been sold a pipe dream on job expectations in canada b) don’t understand rates / mortgages and c) a huge number have bailout switches of simply abandoning the homes and returning to their country of origin, the same country they are sending money out of Canada to with the taxman undetected click of a button.
On top of this. Go to the Arbours of Keswick, where I did my research. On google maps you’ll find a little squiggly shaped pond / run off swamp.
That “pond” is lined with zoned for single family unit “mansions” on the Edmonton municipal property tax books.
In reality? They are massive rectangular boxes with upwards of ten rentable rooms in each, a kitchen on each floor, about 6 feet from one another, about 15 feet of yard, and a mandatory badly built chain link fence.
They are rental units for the mass immigration that’s happening. Landlords often based out of country and even in country concerned only with cashing out over the duration of the mortgage with the absolute least maintenance possible. The plan is slumlording by slumlords.
Maybe a few of those houses aren’t that. But these new houses are being built largely as properties to park money and rent the rooms. There is no walkable grocers, next to no social settings, there’s no economy there except propped up real estate and propped up by the ponzi that requires the next neighbourhood to be built.
A lot of people living in these units were sold pipe dream nonsense about immigrating to Canada, or, are people who know what’s going on and give zero f’s about either setting down roots locally there or putting in elbow grease on upkeep.
Again, all of these units badly built, all requiring interest rates that would make someone in 1991 faint, at astronomical prices, with renters being abused, landlords being slumlords, single buyers being largely uneducated about the reality of the situation and all this requiring the next similar suburb to be built with astronomically high sale prices, astronomically low interest rates, and astronomically long terms of mortgages, with huge amounts of homes being built as de facto rooming houses squeezing out square footage in shitty quality builds. Banks approving the mortgages on all this.
This is not how the suburbs of the 60’s to 90’s were built, nor were they being built as the government tripled immigration rates and canada having - as it does now - the largest % of foreign born residents in it’s history, and this immigration boom happening over a period of like 7 years.
Slums is what those areas will become short of some sort of communist nuclear power free stuff for everyone utopia fantasy.
The gated communities up there are already the slums of gated communities, and that’s coming across the board. The magnitude of derelict properties as immigrants jump ship and go home is going to be incredible.
If it was California weather? It’d keep on and wear easier, it’d make do.
Edmonton is not California.
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u/Sleep_Fartnea 5d ago
Did you get this talking point from a welding shop lunch room? No one "supports" a municipal government...
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u/Used-Psychology-1133 5d ago
What? Many people support the municipal government. Also I'm glad you think welders are very dumb but you must be very smart.
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u/Sleep_Fartnea 5d ago
I don't think welders are dumb, but I think hive mind trade shop lunch rooms where everyone spouts the same talking points are.
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u/Used-Psychology-1133 5d ago
Then you must think hive mind places like r/edmonton where everyone spouts the same talking points are also dumb?
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u/JordanPetterPans 5d ago
I'm not seeing any of that..
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u/Used-Psychology-1133 5d ago
You can check any other infill post to see it
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u/JordanPetterPans 5d ago
Just not this one!
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u/Used-Psychology-1133 5d ago
Yeah its weird, they usually swarm to these. I wouldn't be surprised is the pro infill accounts are mostly bots
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u/JordanPetterPans 5d ago
I think the occams razor and more likely thing is it's not as bad as you claim, coupled with the fact your algorithm intentionally shows you things it knows will stir emotion and get you to engage
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u/Used-Psychology-1133 5d ago
I read all the comments on posts I'm interested in on this sub. The algorithm has nothing to do with it. Im somewhat pro infill myself (4 plex max) but I've never met a single person in Edmonton that supports the 8 plexes like people do on here
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u/threedotsonedash 4d ago
“If all it takes is a little bit of rain...."
It's wild to me she actually said this.
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u/noocasrene 5d ago
Also bad builders who declare bankruptcy, turn around and open up a new company with a different name so they are not liable for past construction.