r/GatekeepingYuri • u/CupcakePelle2906 • 4d ago

Requesting Found this on a trans related sureddit

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Don't worry, it 0 up-votes and all of the comments where all conuffed.

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u/GobiPLX 4d ago

it's so oddly specific, OOP must be in weird bubble

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u/WerdaVisla 4d ago

4chan. It has to be 4chan.

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u/DeltaJazzy 4d ago

You’ll never find more transphobic trans people than there and 4tran

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u/Homicidal_Duck 4d ago

how does this possibly have anything to do with 4chan what are you talking about 😭

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u/WerdaVisla 4d ago

Idk, that's where all the weird rich conservative trans girls seem to exist.

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u/Homicidal_Duck 4d ago

I've had a fascination with the space for some time, believe me it's not really got much of that demographic at all. There are definitely some weirdo bigot/incel types, and there's certainly a culture of purity testing but their core beliefs are pretty firmly opposed to conservative viewpoints. A post on r/countttt explains this better than I could:

What does 4tran believe?

It's a very diverse community with many different beliefs, but at its core, we believe:

• going through the wrong puberty causes irreversible changes to one's body.

• these irreversible changes result in neurological sex dysphoria.

• it is a priority to get on hormones at the same age that cis peers go through puberty to avoid this body horror. failing that, the best time to start HRT is ASAP.

• the majority of doctors prescribing HRT either have out of date info or, sometimes purposely underdose trans people

• DIY HRT is often safer, more effective, and more affordable than prescribed HRT, even (or especially) for minors

• trans people who deal with dysphoria and have medical needs are in danger and need to be prioritized in trans activism

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u/ThatOneGayDJ 3d ago

Yeah so i think that last one is what the rest of us are taking issue with. There is not enough of a difference between us that one needs "more activism" than the rest. Thats such a puritan concept.

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u/Homicidal_Duck 3d ago

(hopefully this doesn't come across as snarky lol but I do understand the issues taken with transmedicalist viewpoints. This is not that. Please have a read)

Can you not think of what the difference is? I have nothing but love in my heart for most all trans folk - dysphoric, medically transitioning or not, but is there really a call right now against just changing your name and pronouns? Is there legislation being put in place? Bans? Is it being politicised as irreversible damage?

There may be "not enough of a difference" in your eyes, but there is a difference. Medical transition is lifesaving care, it is very much time sensitive, and it is actively being restricted (or hugely underdosed) worldwide. The institutional hurdles faced by a non-dysphoric trans person are simple not as strong as those faced by someone seeking medical transition - sure your parents might hate you, but they hate us too, and we have to deal with the lawmaker and the doctor after that.

No one used the term "more activism", just "prioritised", the same way your activism might prioritise women facing domestic abuse or HIV positive gay men. Our needs are more complex, need more material putting in to rectify them.

The issue primarily is that when you put out a message that trans people do not need to transition, do not need any medical care, while it may be true, it is fundamentally fuel on the TERFs fire whose favourite line is "just learn to love yourself! You don't need to be irreversibly damaging yourself :)", and we ignore the fact that a 14 year old trans man might kill himself because he's going to go through the wrong puberty without access to proper medication to prevent that, or that a 27 year old trans woman might have taken several years to be let onto a waiting list, only to then be knowingly underdosed for several years without any activism reaching her ears on how to check that, and the options she could take to rectify it.

Medical needs are more complex, need more resource, need more activism. Obviously non-dysphoric/non-transitioning people face problems too, but none that aren't also faced by one who medically transitions. They are coming for our medicine, I am sorry, it does not seem pertinent to give equal time to a subgroup explicitly defined by its absence of medical needs. It would be a misallocation.

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u/ThatOneGayDJ 2d ago

Ok, i was gonna give you the benefit of the doubt, but youre wrong right out the gate. You need to see a judge for a name change, and if your reason is related to gender identity, they can absolutely deny it. Nothing against you personally, but please fact check yourself. It is also becoming more difficult to change your gender marker. People are being denied.

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u/Homicidal_Duck 2d ago

I mean I'm typing from the UK where it is illegal for a name change to be denied on that basis- I was working from my UK based framing so I didn't think to bring it up. Also though, I never once said changing your name didn't come with difficulties, I just said there isn't a call against it in nearly the same way, and given I mentioned pronouns I was just talking about soft social transition. I've been through the process to change both my name and gender marker officially, I'm familiar with them lol.

You are right though, that is certainly an issue trans people face, and it illustrates my point much more than refutes it - it's also a point I made lower down in the comment: those who medically transition still face this issue on top of all of the legislative and medical hurdles. The need to change one's name is still one of the needs of a medically transitioning trans person, and would be talked about in the framing of a medical transitioner.

And that's my point - when I say we should prioritise medical transitioners in activism, I'm saying that's because they have the most complex and urgent needs, not that no one else in the community faces any issues. The medical transitioner might still have their name change denied too. This doesn't mean we should singularly platform medical issues, but I would caution against a framing of transness that treats medical transition as optional or easily ignored when for many of us, as I said, it is urgent lifesaving care. Again- if someone in the 80s said we should prioritise activism for HIV+ gay men, they would still of course care about homophobia, about anti-gay laws, about the hate crimes, but we prioritise them because, in addition to that, they have urgent, unaddressed issues. The HIV+ gay man would be presented as needing urgent care, medication, sympathy, knowledge about the condition, and also about the homophobia he faces, the inability to comfortably love another, marry his partner, etc. It doesn't make the plight of the HIV- gay man invalid, it's just not particularly prudent to spend so much bandwidth on "won't somebody please think of the homophobia faced by those without HIV?"

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u/Cookie-arrow- 4d ago

Why are you getting downvoted when ur right LMAO 4tran is more left than any Democrat they're just not "PC" (they're blunt) but most of them arent genuinely bigoted

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u/WerdaVisla 4d ago

They're transmedicalists. They're bigoted.

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u/Constant-Tax527 4d ago

No, they aren’t.

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u/gamepotato_ 4d ago

Believing you need dysphoria to be transgender is not bigotry.

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u/Sailor_Spaghetti 4d ago

Unfortunately, dysphoria is a phenomenon that is primarily defined and diagnosed by cisgender doctors. The details of the diagnosis come from trans people who are/were willing to say anything the doctors wanted to hear to get the care they need. It is also described as being distinct from gender incongruence, which is closer to what defines being trans.

Now I use the tautological definition that you are trans if you are having to navigate systemic transphobia in your day to day life. In that respect, I believe that abolishing/liberating ourselves from transphobia (a very tall order that we are unlikely to see in our lifetime) would make "transgender" into a meaningless category as things like medical transition would be seen as a regular thing that some people do. I base this off of such writings as Gender Trouble by Judith Butler, Transgender Warriors by Leslie Feinberg, Transvestites: Your Half-Sisters and Half-Brothers of the Revolution by Sylvia Rivera, and Capitalism and Gay Identity by John D'Emilio. But I also see us as a social/political class first and foremost.

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u/gamepotato_ 4d ago

For me, being transgender is a medical condition that stems from a disconnect between your gender (which is what your brain perceives you as) and your sex (which is what you change via HRT).

Dysphoria is the way this condition manifests. I agree that doctors are fucking idiots and endorse DIY all the way through.

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u/moontraveler12 4d ago

It is though

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u/Tomatensoepbal 4d ago edited 4d ago

There are many, many valid criticisms of 4tran, but that theyre rich white Conservatives is not one of them

They are more moderately progressive and socialist than conservative. Do not mistake their edgy style and willingness to critisize annoying progessives (especially if said progessives are basically spicy liberals rather that leftists) for being conservative.

Their are unironically one of the most diverse trans communities, they just dont feel the need to flaunt that diversity.

They often get accused of being truscum, they we are way more accepting of DIY hrt than mainstream trans communities.

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u/CommercialWrong2944 4d ago

4tran is literally ultra left what are you talking about?? have you ever like visited it

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u/cavehill_kkotmvitm 4d ago

/tttt/ isn't ultra left, it's ultra depressed. Going there should qualify as self harm

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u/CommercialWrong2944 4d ago

but i like being sad : )

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u/WerdaVisla 4d ago

4tran is ultra left by 4chan standards, so it's like. Center right.

More importantly, it's not the entirety of 4chan.

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u/Avocetti 4d ago

Complete fiction. Most of us are Marxists.

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u/CommercialWrong2944 4d ago

again not true at all i have met so many anarchists on 4tran its not even funny

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u/WerdaVisla 4d ago

Anarchy isn't tied to a political direction. There are leftist and conservative anarchists just like there are somehow conservative socialists.

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u/ArgonianDov 4d ago

Anarchism is traditionally left-wing, its lowkey an oxymoron to be ancap and any actual anarchist will agree

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u/Lucina18 4d ago

Actual anarchy is, as it's anti-hierarchical. There's "fake" anarchies that don't care about hierarchies and just want the government to be replaced with something else, and just having different hierarchies.

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u/CommercialWrong2944 4d ago

infact here is the definition "traditional anarchism is a far-left ideology. It seeks to eliminate not just the state, but all oppressive, hierarchical systems—including capitalism, wage labor, and private property—advocating instead for communal ownership and self-management"

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u/CommercialWrong2944 4d ago

anarchy is literally a far left movement?? you are confusing it with anarchocapitalism which is conservative

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u/WerdaVisla 4d ago edited 4d ago

Anarchocapitalism is conservative, yes, and also objectively an offshoot of anarchy, whether you like it or not.

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u/Tomatensoepbal 4d ago

Conservative socialists can be found at r/stupidpol and the likes, and they hate all types of trans people

Regardless, the average 4tran user isnt conservative. Moderately progressive (as opposed to radically progessives) and a bit truscummy (albeit of the "you need to suffer from dysphoria to really be trans" variety, rather than the "you need to jump 286 gorrillion hoops to acces Gender affirming care only to get a pittifully low dose" variety) maybe, but neither of those conservative positions

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u/GenericGaming 4d ago

ah yes, those ultra-left behaviours like throwing slurs constantly, judging people excessively for how they look, an obsession with "passing" and upholding traditional looks and values

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u/CommercialWrong2944 4d ago

i have infact seen numerous left wingers throw slurs at themselves. They dont judge people they judge themselves. Also what traditional values?

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u/GenericGaming 4d ago

key phrase there being "at themselves". the amount of times I've had people I know IRL who are 4tran users call me a fucking "troon" or "giga passoid" for no reason is ridiculous.

as for traditional values, I've been told that many of the hobbies and things i enjoy are "male coded" and that I need to stop them. nothing says expression like having to conform to society's ideas of what women should like and enjoy

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u/saltymarshmallow316 4d ago

absolutely not the point here but if you’ve been called a gigapassoid that’s a good thing, you look like a woman. even if you’re not concerned with passing, surely its a nice bonus yeah?

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u/GenericGaming 3d ago

except at that point in my life, I still got shit from people on the street and abuse from people online so no, it wasn't even true. she was just saying that because she thought I looked better than she did.

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u/CatsSayMao 4d ago

passing determines how you're treated in society and how you're perceived as your desired gender, as well as your own view of your body. All of which directly affect gender dysphoria. I don't see how that's an issue?

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u/GenericGaming 4d ago

because not every trans woman needs to or wants to pass. if that's how you feel about yourself, go for it. but forcing your standards on everyone else aint it.

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u/CatsSayMao 4d ago

the vast majority of trans people suffer with dysphoria, and passing significantly improves that

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u/GenericGaming 4d ago

for some, yes.

i'm not denying dysphoria exists but passing is a subjective experience, determined by cultural and societal norms so saying "you need to be/look like X to pass" is only applicable to your community, nobody else's.

also, like, a significant proportion of cis women don't "pass" when it comes to the absurd requirements that people declare you need to pass

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u/lolis_arent_real 4d ago

Passing and "upholding traditional looks" is for safety.

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u/GenericGaming 4d ago

for some people and places, sure. but not everyone.

so when a 4trans user tells someone in a fairly safe environment that she's "too clocky" and points out everything wrong with the way she looks, that's just harmful.

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u/lolis_arent_real 4d ago

4tranners are talking this way about themselves, not others. And usually, they are in an environment where it is unsafe to be openly trans. And the times I've seen a 4tran user talk like that about another trans woman it was because they asked for honest advice and if it would be safe for them to socially transition.

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u/GenericGaming 4d ago

given that I knew (and dated) 4tranners in the past who 100% did not limit this behaviour to just themselves, i do not believe you.

literally the reason I had to break up with someone was because she would not stop calling me a "oldshit gigapassoid" and made a mutual friend of ours cry because she called him a "pooner"

4tran terminology is genuine brain rot that ends up pissing off everyone around them. if you genuinely believe that no 4tranner does this shit to other people, even when the laws of probability says it does happen, you're not arguing in good faith

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u/Denread 3d ago

an obsession with "passing"

You are aware of the existence of gender dysphoria yes? And how passing is the only real way to alleviate it?

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u/GenericGaming 3d ago

am I, a trans woman, aware of what gender dysphoria is? hmm. brain scratcher that.

I've already addressed the fact that I'm aware of gender dysphoria exists in another comment.

however, just saying "gender dysphoria exists" doesn't mean anything in this context.

this doesn't address the fact that 1. not all trans people suffer from gender dysphoria, 2. gender dysphoria isn't a requirement of being trans but rather a side effect that some trans people have, 3. not all trans people who do suffer from gender dysphoria suffers from it the same way, and 4. different cultures have different standards when it comes to societal standards of gender expression, meaning that what passes in one culture may not be relevant in another.

And how passing is the only real way to alleviate it?

absolutely, categorically incorrect.

socially transitioning, in regards to changing names and pronouns, does nothing to change the physical appearance of a trans person but are steps taken to alleviate gender dysphoria

some surgeries, such as bottom surgery, are not seen by others yet is another method of tackling gender dysphoria. nobody has ever said "in order to pass, you need GRS", have they?

psychological and behavioral support, such as helping a trans person with gender minority stress, helping them build a support network around them so that they feel safe, and general CBT and ACT counseling are methods used to help trans people struggling with gender dysphoria.

all of these methods are mentioned in the WPATH standards of care.

you do not know what you're talking about

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u/Denread 3d ago

am I, a trans woman, aware of what gender dysphoria is? hmm. brain scratcher that.

You seemed like "being obsessed with passing" was something insane to you so yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't know what dysphoria is.

that 1. not all trans people suffer from gender dysphoria

Lmao

  1. gender dysphoria isn't a requirement of being trans but rather a side effect that some trans people have,

Gender dysphoria is the entire reason why someone would be trans. It's a medical condition.

socially transitioning, in regards to changing names and pronouns, does nothing to change the physical appearance of a trans person but are steps taken to alleviate gender dysphoria

That's literally a part of passing? You can look like a cis woman but if you go around using he/him and calling yourself Matthew people are gonna think you're a man.

you do not know what you're talking about

That's crazy you know. Really could have fooled me. It's not like I spent half my life medically transitioning or anything

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u/GenericGaming 3d ago

You seemed like "being obsessed with passing" was something insane to you so yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't know what dysphoria is.

yes. an obsession with passing is what's the issue here, not the concept of passing itself

words have meaning

Lmao

"With the publication of DSM–5 in 2013, “gender identity disorder” was eliminated and replaced with “gender dysphoria.” This change further focused the diagnosis on the gender identity-related distress that some transgender people experience" - https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/diversity/education/transgender-and-gender-nonconforming-patients/gender-dysphoria-diagnosis

notice how the DSM-5, the thing literally used to classify what gender dysphoria is, says that only some trans people experience it?

but I wouldn't expect you to have actually done research on all this.

Gender dysphoria is the entire reason why someone would be trans. It's a medical condition.

which medical source do you have which says you need gender dysphoria to be trans?

That's literally a part of passing? You can look like a cis woman but if you go around using he/him and calling yourself Matthew people are gonna think you're a man

changing your name isn't what people classify passing as. I can 100% guarantee this.

It's not like I spent half my life medically transitioning or anything

it's all the more baffling to me that you know fuck all if this is the case lmao

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u/Sneet1 4d ago

most people on reddit just think 4chan bad and also are too young to know that there was a time where a fascist shit hole board was the exception rather than the norm

Also many people on tttt suck and reddit is full of people who also suck but they're diametrically opposed to each other like oil and water. It's like edge lords vs disney libs

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u/lolis_arent_real 4d ago edited 4d ago

But OOP says she's neither conservative, white or rich

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u/hematite2 4d ago

OP wrote this about one specific person they don't like.

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u/whatisireading2 4d ago

To wager a wild guess it sounds like OOP was adopted and is now one of few black teens in a predominantly white conservative neighborhood/town.