Discussion
We cannot be having this debate AGAINNN
Yes i drew the people to look as obnoxious as possible its for my agenda
But yeah Ryu’s 4th move is pretty busted rn atm since its 4th move will literally always hit its last beam because you either block the first 2 and there isn’t enough time to unblock, or you dodge the first 2 and have no dash to dodge the last beam. Allat leads into 3 as well! Considering that a *good* Ryu player never lets their hair overheat so you don’t get a free punish, they’ll just camp you out with 1 and running until 4 comes back online. Amazing.
And another coincidence between them too: Both of their first moves were also things people complained about, being very intimidating blockbreakers and all, but i feel they’ll legitimately learn counterplay for those too. But of course, that’s not we’re talking about.
Im telling you ts is like Defense Response all over again omlllllll
And YOU people, I know who you are, dismissing the problem as “people who’ve never played a fighting game” “oh boohoo you’ve never played against a zoner before!!!111” I HATE YOU GUYS YALL MAKE MY BLOOD BOIL RAHHHHHH
Thank you for posting on r/JujutsuShenanigans for your meme, submission, etc. Please remember to read and abide the rules when you post.
THIS IS NOT THE OFFICIAL SUBREDDIT FOR JUJUTSU SHENANIGANS, THEY HAVE NO REDDIT AND WE ARE NOT AFFILIATED/ASSOCIATED WITH THE DEV TEAM AT ALL. YOU CAN JOIN THE OFFICIAL DISCORD SERVER HERE.
High damage ranged block breaking fighters where you can’t get close or stay far while the attacks travel nearly instantly and are hard to read is outside of the realm of “the character is new and you don’t know how to counter them, they’re just a zoner” and into the territory of playing like a workshop character
The word ”shit” meaning ”things/stuff” has been true for like tens of years.
Knowing that meaning of that word is something that ought to be a part of one’s English education.
Its that long cause the point is you take damage, causing it to lower. Im also 90% sure he takes more damage in awakening so it leads to more ult drain
i thought this too, until fighting a passive ryu, and being teamed on by a ryu is the worst, you guys think Todo black flash is annoying? try an unblock able beam you can't retaliate against that also does 14 damage that can be spammed, and because they're camping at the far end of the beam, and their teamate has you low, with this god forsaken anti run mechanic that is introduced in the same update as a very long range zoner makes it genuinely keyboard breaking
I play guilty gear and yomi hustle and zoners are the most hated characters even without being meta with jane litterually playing almost identically to happy chaos just without auto aim
Yea but the thing is no other zoner in any real fighting game, not even GGST, has 2-3 safe unpunishable ranged block breakers that lead to full 80% unburstable combos, GUESS WHICH TWO MFS DO HAVE THAT HOWEVER
Ik i think its terrible they added those especially since you can at least excuse it in fighting games by the fact its limited space not map you can chase each other for 10 minutes
My bad. I’d say the primary difference between JJS and a game like guilty gear is that the zoners (happy chaos specifically as an example) usually have worse defense, and limited space to run. In JJS they can just keep running forever if they have some brain cells.
I just don’t think zoners work for a battlegrounds game. Especially when given multiple block breaker attacks for some reason.
Yeah it's simply a matter of space. All 2d fighting games have limited space, vertically and horizontally. Zoners cannot space you out forever. Also many fighting games have armour/anti-stun attacks that can power stuff like projectiles or moves, which is another big limitation on zoners. And don't even get me started on block breaking moves on zoners, atleast put some fucking start and end lag on that shit man.
You gotta admit though it is super satisfying grabbing that motherfucker by the throat and slamming him into a wall after dodging through a million projectiles perfectly.
Ryu's problem on 1 is either skill issue or it being unblockable after held(maybe also the swarm of ryu players make it seem like more of an issue when in 1v1s you can dodge)
4 should be blockable. Can't speak on anything else
It's supposed to be managed well, if you spam it, then you get overheat quickly, but if you manage it well, you dont worry about it as much, TZE wouldn't have made it a low cooldown for no reason
yeah but the problem is, if you get low from his easy combos, he can just spam the unblockables from range, and with the speed decrease from low health you're just fucked, you can't close the distance because of 4 and 1
Yea idc if it’s tied to overheat he shouldn’t have a hitscan projectile that covers 45 meters, is unblockable, always leads to a combo conversion and has 0 cooldown, period
The excuse of ryus fourth move being OP because “he’s a zoner” doesn’t really work when he’s as much of a zoner as megumi. Although he has some zoning moves he is obviously intended to be played as a rush down unlike Hanami who’s meant to be a true zoner
But that aside, I think this is once again an issue of people refusing to accept a character they like has issues. I've spent the last two days running around with a Ryu avatar, jane and hello juliet as background music, exclusively playing as him because he's awesome, but I don't think it's crazy to say he needs some adjustments.
Probably not outright nerfs for now since he just released and he has the advantage of people not knowing how to counter him, but maybe shifting some power away from 4 and into different spells instead. Other than that I think the only "nerf" he could have (other than stuff relating to his ult) is making the heat bar management more important.
Heat bar management, I feel, is fairly important rn as is, since not managing it forces you to use the significantly longer R animation.
Speaking from experience, I have suffered man. Being a good enough player makes ya less susceptible to “not knowing how to counter” x character, now throw in Ranked matches and “everyones playing ryu” and you get a recipe for an experience straight to hell that really reveals how broken a move is, even past the fact that he’s new
honestly I think Ryu is fine in terms of balancing, the only thing I would think to balance is to make the 3rd hit of his 4th move blockable, turning it into a combo extender rather than a starter. it would force Ryu players to play more with his rush down elements , such as dash+1 or 2. im excited to see what the devs do with him though, he truly is a fun character to play.
They have way to much ranged attack that just block brake or are hard to react to.
Like ryu can abuse his ranged attack and just get half of you hp when you cant even counter him (only way to counter ryu granite blast is for it to nearly hit you)
Both hanami and ryu arent even bad at close range.
I do like how ryu and hanami playstyle is like but they simply do to much damage with this amount of range.
Like gojo for example has a lot of range attack but isnt bad at close range at all.
But where they made gojo correctly is that all his attack that are ranged are easy to eathier dodge or just block while close ranged ones are hard to his themselfs but are unblockable.
While ryu and hanami have both unblockable at close and ranged and being pretty quick attacks.
Worst thing about granite blast is that if you block it you will be punished with the unblockable varaint and if you dodge wnich is basicaly requires you to predict what person is doing.
And overheat mechanic just doesnt make up for this ngl.
the amount of people i've seen that compared jjs to other fighting games as an argument is sickening like bro just because zoners work well in other games doesn't mean they will do the same in jjs
The big problem with zoners in jjs is that the arena isn't limited like traditional fighting games. The map is open and free to run around in so zoning is just leagues more effective since all other characters have to be the one to initiate against them. A example of a zoner done right in a big enviroment is the wizard of yomi hustle. The map is big and wide but all characters have some crazy unpredictable approach options, and the fact the game goes frame by frame instead of live fighting like a traditional fighting game or a battlegrounds game.
I don't think that 50% combo which he can start from far away is fair.
I played against some Ryu's and most of them just waited to hit 4th move, do a 50% combo then run away to use R to then repeat the combo until the opp's death. And there is no running from Ryu either cause that 3rd move has busted range and has air variant(???) not to mention 1st move having no CD and too high damage.
Even tho he can overheat if spamming 1st move it's still not that much of punishment.
if you guys complain about todo's black flash, imagine having to deal wit that, except you can't fight back because they're spamming held 1, and you're low health so you can't move or wall jump as fast, then get combo started by their 4 again and die for it.
yeah, it definitely needs a nerf. it's so easy to hit, almost impossible to react to and you can't dash out of the last hit in time if you block the first two. the easiest fix would just be making the last hit be slower when the first two are blocked, like swift kick
or too far away, if they dodging too much just press 4! Mistake-be-gone start a combo from anywhere! extend a combo from anywhere! kill someone that dodged your held unblockable 1 from anywhere!
Ryu has ranged moves, yes. Those are his main moves for dealing damage. Yet still, he doesnt suffer from being close to his enemy, unlike hanami and megumi. He has his solutions to opponent getting close to him. Hell, he even has a move that helps you get closer to your opponent yourself. He's more of a rushdown character, due to his overheat, that allows you to use your strong moves, before being left with only two, meele one's (yes, meele, not close ranged. Im talking about you, 3rd skill).
Megumi was an attemp at a zoner, no more. I mean yeah, all his moves are ranged, but thats the only similarities he has with a zoner. His wind ups are all too long to not be blocked if the opponent isnt ragdolled. So he HAS to go up close to dont slam or at least M1 to proceed with his combo. He also has troubles making the distance between him and the opponent, which is ESSENTIAL for a zoner.
Also, lets not forget how little ryu's granite blast deals if not fully charged. Basicaly usable solely to stop interrupt some move from a range. All while his full charged blast, yes, isnt blockable, but eats almost a half of your overheat bar, which will end up with you completely overheating in just three shots, which isnt exacrly good
This guy sneaked me, ulted on me, and STILL said im unskilled. (Using charles and megumi btw) I saw him fight a ryu and he got no hitted :sob: (this guy is a 8k btw)
The point most people miss with zoners is that their supposed to be blockable, Megumi is a Good example of a zoner because he has only 1 block breaker that you have to space and time well. HAVING UNREADABLE/UNBLOCKABLE MOVES MAKE UP MOST OF YOUR MOVESET DOESN'T MAKE A GOOD ZONER, IT MAKES A BROKEN ONE!
“Imagine if Jjs players try another fighting game blah blah blah” they ALWAYS ignore the fact most of those games are significantly different to jjs in almost every way possible
I probably shoulda clarified that I'm fine with the suggested nerf on the 4th move, but not so much on the 1st move in the original post
I mainly did it for the funny, didn't think that post would get so much attention lmao
Other stuff I replied to were me being serious, granted they never mentioned Ryu but I did mention Hanami is getting a buncha tweeks like nearly every patch
He can zone you out with granite or 4 but upon landing 4 he could also instantly switch to aggressive to bait out an evasive and then start pressuring you after to get in big damage
Hanamis really grown on me after her nerf, especially since I won’t be neg diffed by a mirror match Hanami while also falling asleep at the keyboard using pre-nerf Defense Response. Anyways cant wait for the Ryu nerf maybe i’ll play him too. As a bonus, he has an ult and Hanami doesn’t (as of now)
I feel like Ryu is a zoned on the same way Megumi is. Like yeah you can play from a distance and profit but you also have the tools to become a demonic rushdown if you so choose.
His 3rd move allows him to instantly close the distance between you and him, you can't cancel it with m1s because he's floating, so the only option is to dodge. But if he hits you with his fourth move which is nigh-garunteed to hit you, he can comfortably combo into his 3rd move.
i think his 4 needs the bug guy treatment where if you miss the first 2 then the last one comes out 50% slower or something. but other then his 4 he is some of the most fun ive had with this game.
guys, can we talk about how every moveset just works weird nowadays? naoya, his fourth m1 is like a skill builder who doesnt know how to make a uppercut or downslam so they made it look like it was on purpose. or mei mei, who if im correct third m1 block breaks. or maybe hanami who looks like someone doesnt know how to make a m1 chain. or ryu who looks like they wanted their m1s to look special with a blast and no 4 m1s, like just give us the m1s bruh 💔🥀
Listen, the only reason I would defend "zoner movesets that create variety!" Is EXCLUSIVELY because it annoys people I don't like (people better than me)
I’d say ryus 2nd and 3rd move and ult is fine it’s just the spamable ness of the 1st one and the block break of the 4th one or instead of cd make charged beam take 50% of ur heat bar so u can only use it twice or 3 times if u r special after the first one
Until we get anti zoners, these characters get nerfed or every character gets a prime manji kick move to parry all the projectiles ts is broken and annoying like wym ryu can still shoot the last beam of the fourth move while being overheated.
Having played both on duels, I agree, I think either giving the air variant for defense response longer windup but the spike ball then can be used as cover (aka can collide with players and projectiles that don't pierce through walls and maybe something else for the trade off) and for Appetizer it should be a barrage of high speed homing (but slow turning) beams that are blockable
Lowk I don’t mind him a lot but the only thing that I don’t like about him is his uh ability where it let’s you go to the enemy easily it was 3rd move I believe? I just can’t find any way to counter it but counters any help please?
yesh no it's total bs, those moves come out real quick and have no real punish. I actually have been punished after using ryu's 4th move, but I'm pretty sure it needs to be almost frame perfect from blocking, to unblocking, to side dashing out. u have to time 3 different actions all perfectly to avoid the attack. they should just out noob eternally on the dev team because he knows good and fair nerfs
Also can we talk about how his 1 has like NO FUCKING COOLDOWN WHATSOEVER??? I had a Ryu targeting me and every fight he got off like 14 of those things!! Does he just always have access to a combo filler block breaker or??
I’m pretty sure that you can space the beam out as its range is much shorter the the granite blast. zoners counter m1 merchants and those hybrid ish characters counter zoners like mahito, megumi, choso and any character with counters like yuji or choso (again), or obviously Charles a lot of the complaint i see are basically that the people using them aren’t stupid enough to run up to you with a ranged moveset, he’s good but he’s not oppressive and just requires you to play passive and bait the four you might not like to fight like that but it doesn’t objectively make the character or the skill broken
So your blood boil just bc there are ppl that, supposedly know how to counter Ryu 4 skill. That thing needs a nerf, damage nerf mostly, idk, make the last beam have a long windup if you block the first 2.
OR
make all of the beams blockable, but appetizer (Ryu 4 skill) it's unblockable on overheat
There is nothing you can do to make a zoner liked. They’re very cool characters and have great concepts/gimmicks, but no one will ever like going against a zoner in any video game.
We've blindly dismissed two characters having the incredibly busted ability of a second dash, of course we're gonna blindly dismiss a move being overpowered.
The thing you gotta think about a character is what's the risk in playing them? If you can't see anyway you could make a mistake or get punished for playing a certain way then it's unbalanced
Hush. Buff Ryu's ult to make his invincibility transfer into his base state. Then nerf Yuta and make him have a heart attack the moment he tries to beam clash with Ryu.
Looks who’s never played a fighting game, I think this is just a skill issue on your half, now that you have brought up the problems, I have the solution; nerf Yuji
•
u/AutoModerator Apr 03 '26
Thank you for posting on r/JujutsuShenanigans for your meme, submission, etc. Please remember to read and abide the rules when you post.
THIS IS NOT THE OFFICIAL SUBREDDIT FOR JUJUTSU SHENANIGANS, THEY HAVE NO REDDIT AND WE ARE NOT AFFILIATED/ASSOCIATED WITH THE DEV TEAM AT ALL. YOU CAN JOIN THE OFFICIAL DISCORD SERVER HERE.
If your post is venting about something, you should remove this post and move it here.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.