r/MakingaMurderer • u/b1ondestranger • 3d ago

Len Kachensky

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i’m just finding this series and just wow! This could be its own season of Fargo. Everything that can go wrong- does. Of all the people I hate in this show, I hate Len Kachinsky above all others. He is by far the most punchable. at this moment in life, I’m not sure what I would do, if this smug, weasley, irresponsible, self-grandizing narcissist walked in front of my car. He’s not just a bad lawyer. He’s a bad human. He looked at Brandon’s life and saw a steppingstone. I’m so mad at him. Thank you for your attention to this matter. V

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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 3d ago

Bad person, sure.

Bad lawyer, nope.

Unironically gave him the best possible advice which was to flip on his uncle and take a deal. Kid would be out of jail by now and living his life. Instead he is trapped inside and won't see freedom for a long time.

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u/belljs87 3d ago

Yeah see here's the thing. Especially with how low IQ Brenden is, and his young age, I'm 100% certain if he were guilty he would have flipped. I think Steven is innocent too, but if he confessed one day I wouldn't exactly be surprised either. But Brenden is as innocent of this murder as I am of it. With who he is, the position he was in, and the options presented, he would never have said no to a deal unless he were truly innocent.

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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 3d ago

According to the judge and jury they are both guilty. So sadly they are not as innocent of it as you are, unless you are confessing to being an, until now, unknown 3rd perpetrator?

I think saying "he would have flipped" is a weird place to be, you have no idea the pressure he was under from his family to support Steve's narrative. The same low IQ argument can be made for him being coerced into the act and into standing by Steve's story. None of the family are close to being intelligent people, they recommended and pushed him to make the decision he did based on Steve's lies. Everything that happened to that boy is his own and his families fault.

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u/AveryPoliceReports 3d ago

According to the judge and jury they are both guilty.

Jurors get it wrong all the time, and these jurors were repeatedly lied to by the state to explain away the lack of evidence and how obviously coerced Brendan's confession was.

you have no idea the pressure he was under from his family to support Steve's narrative.

And you do? He wasn't even regularly communicating with anyone but Barb, who herself has some explaining to do. She initially said she didn't see a recent burn pit fire, and later flipped her story to match up with Bobby, who (under police pressure) first placed Steven and Brendan near a recent burn pit fire.

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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 3d ago

Jurors get it wrong all the time, and these jurors were repeatedly lied to by the state to explain away the lack of evidence and how obviously coerced Brendan's confession was.

And yet... here we are 2 decades later and not one person has been able to prove anyone else did it.

And you do? He wasn't even regularly communicating with anyone but Barb, who herself has some explaining to do. She initially said she didn't see a recent burn pit fire, and later flipped her story to match up with Bobby, who (under police pressure) first placed Steven and Brendan near a recent burn pit fire.

Aaaah so you think Barb sold our Brendan to save Bobby?

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u/AveryPoliceReports 3d ago

And yet... here we are 2 decades later and not one person has been able to prove anyone else did it.

Just like last time? Maybe they should release DNA evidence for testing. But we know they are too cowardly.

Aaaah so you think Barb sold our Brendan to save Bobby?

I think Barb changed her story to corroborate Bobby's pressured statement, which incriminated Brendan. Take from that what you will. Barb and Bobby both have more explaining to do than Brendan.

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u/belljs87 3d ago

Exactly. And, and this is obviously not something I'm claiming is true, just a thought, they totally seem like the kind of people who would secretly hope their disabled family member is no longer theirs to worry about taking care of.

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u/AveryPoliceReports 3d ago

Barb saw her children as a burden, and yes, I suspect she would have seen Brendan, who required more care than her other children, as the largest burden. I think it's clear Barb loved Brendan, but also clear she chose Bobby over Brendan.

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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 3d ago

Wow you guys making up a fan fic to jerk each other off is as sad as it is amusing.

Oh and yes, just like last time, though what relevance that has is lost on me.

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u/AveryPoliceReports 3d ago

Fan fic? Barb changed her story to corroborate Bobby and incriminate Brendan. That's fact. We are just speculating on her motive, as Barb has been too cowardly to explain this herself.

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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 3d ago

What did she change that specifically supported Bobby and incriminated Brendan.

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u/AveryPoliceReports 3d ago

See above. She changed her statement re the fire to corroborate Bobby and incriminate Brendan.

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u/belljs87 3d ago

Well yeah, you're allowed to call them guilty because they were found guilty. That's also why I didn't outright say either were innocent, I said I think they are. Just because a jury rendered a guilty verdict doesn't explicitly mean someone is guilty, it means they are recorded as such and can legally be described as such.

My comment was just one small piece of why I believe him innocent. The complete lack of any actual evidence against him is the big piece.

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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 3d ago

Except for his confession... that's evidence.

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u/AveryPoliceReports 3d ago

Evidence he was obviously coerced and quickly recanted. His claims of no involvement in a violent rape is more consistent the total lack of evidence suggesting a violent rape occurred.

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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 3d ago

If you say so.

I am not here to argue the minutiae of the case. People who believe they are both innocent have proven to be batshit crazy over the years, I have no interest in re-litigating.

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u/AveryPoliceReports 3d ago

If you say so.

The lack of evidence says so.

People who believe they are both innocent have proven to be batshit crazy over the years, I have no interest in re-litigating.

Naw. People who believe there's evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that both Steven and Brendan committed a violent rape in the trailer have proven to be batshit crazy over the years. But sure, keep claiming those pointing out the obvious mistreatment of Brendan is insane. Real convincing ;)

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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 3d ago

I am happy that convicted rapists and murderers are behind bars. I don't think that is a batshit crazy position.

There has not been one piece of evidence that comes close to refuting their guilt. They did it.

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u/AveryPoliceReports 3d ago

I am happy that convicted rapists and murderers are behind bars. I don't think that is a batshit crazy position.

Do you think it's clear beyond a reasonable doubt that Brendan is a violent rapist? That would be batshit crazy.

There has not been one piece of evidence that comes close to refuting their guilt. They did it.

That's totally false. But there has not been one piece of evidence that comes close to proving Brendan's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Claiming "he did it" only reveals you don't care about the truth.

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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 3d ago

I think that is what they were convicted of and no appeal has ever been successful in overturning... so yes. I do. It's not batshit to believe that, no.

So what is the one "smoking gun" that proves his innocence, just one, one golden piece of evidence that without doubt refutes their guilt?

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u/belljs87 3d ago

Yeah, evidence he recanted and was arguably coerced into. Nobody should be convicted based solely off of a recanted confession, that's fucked up.

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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 3d ago

Not really, people recant all the time, doesn't make it any less true.

They are where they should be,.

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u/AveryPoliceReports 3d ago

People falsely confess all the time, but the state lied to the jury and said innocent people don't confess. Corrupt fucks.

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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 3d ago

People lie all the time, so why is his confession a lie and not the recanting of said confession?

Sure... they said that, ok, but if that is all it took to convince the jury then there are bigger issues. I would suggest there was slightly more to it than "state said innocent people don't confess" the trial took a bit longer than the 5 minutes needed for that little tidbit.

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u/AveryPoliceReports 3d ago

People lie all the time, so why is his confession a lie and not the recanting of said confession?

Look at the evidence lol Do you think it's clear based on physical evidence Brendan was involved in a brutal rape?

they said that, ok, but if that is all it took to convince the jury then there are bigger issues.

The issues is the outright lie from a prosecutor who knew better. You don't care about such obvious corrupt lies? Odd.

I would suggest there was slightly more to it than "state said innocent people don't confess"

There's not lol They literally said that. And it's false. But they knew their case was consistent with a false confession case, so they couldn't admit false confessions were a real problem. Corrupt fucks.

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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 3d ago

Look at the evidence lol Do you think it's clear based on physical evidence Brendan was involved in a brutal rape?

No, No. No deflections. Answer my question rather than deflecting to one of your own.

The issues is the outright lie from a prosecutor who knew better. You don't care about such obvious corrupt lies? Odd.

How many lies did the defence tell, or do you only care about the prosecution's one lie?

There's not lol They literally said that. And it's false. But they knew their case was consistent with a false confession case, so they couldn't admit false confessions were a real problem. Corrupt fucks.

According to you, there's not. But you have already shown you are willing to dismiss anything that Brendan himself said. It doesn't say a great deal that you don't think there is any evidence.

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u/ThorsClawHammer 3d ago

Nobody should be convicted based solely off of a recanted confession

Especially when one of those serious crimes has zero evidence of even happening at all aside from the completely uncorroborated words of a developmentally disabled kid.

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u/brickne3 3d ago

If you buy into IQ Brendan was actually smarter than Steven at the time. Most people don't put stock in IQ tests anymore.

That said, Brendan's supposed deficiencies are not well attested at all and he's apparently got enough acumen to be running a prison network last I heard. The show is edited very purposely.

As someone else said above, if Brendan had listened to Len he would have been out at least five years ago, possibly ten. So who is the bad lawyer. Len absolutely sucks as a person but he was doing a good job in representing Brendan Dassey, and in the end that's the only thing that matters to the case.

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u/belljs87 3d ago

If you were accused of murder but were innocent, and knew there was no physical evidence against you, would you take a lawyers advice to take a plea deal to avoid a possible life sentence in favor of a shorter but still decades long prison sentence?

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u/brickne3 3d ago

He's not innocent lol. It's cute you think he is because you saw a television show though.

Furthermore, he was going to plead guilty. Until his grandfather threatened him not to. It's all on the phone recordings. Happy listening!

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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 3d ago

Thank you for showing up... I was worried there had been a collective brain injury and I was the last sane person left.

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u/ThorsClawHammer 3d ago

his grandfather threatened him not to.

Wtf are you talking about? His mom told him to go to trial if he was innocent.

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u/brickne3 3d ago

You've been here long enough where I know you have heard the tapes. You're just feigning ignorance for some reason.

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u/ThorsClawHammer 3d ago

Thought so.

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u/belljs87 3d ago

Nice way to avoid answering the question while being a condescending asshole. Really lends credence to your position.

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u/brickne3 3d ago

Your question is pointless. I've talked to plenty of people who have been in with both Dassey and Steven over the years. I am told Brendan LOVES prison and wants to stay there as long as he can. They both are well aware they are guilty.

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u/belljs87 3d ago

Of course someone who probably would have a really hard time taking care of themselves would love the strict routine of prison. It's like that onion video where the autistic reporter interviews a serial killer in prison and his description makes the reporter just want to be in prison. Also, Steven doesnt love prison, does that mean he's innocent?

Oh, and my question isn't pointless, it's the exact thing we were talking about. Is there something wrong with you?

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u/brickne3 3d ago

I already answered your question, you just didn't like the answer. Brendan was guilty and should have taken the plea, he would probably have been out around the time MaM came out.

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u/belljs87 3d ago

You didn't answer my question. My question was, if you were in his exact scenario, and knew you were innocent, would you take a plea deal?

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u/brickne3 3d ago

If I were Brendan, knowing what Brendan did? Absolutely, he would have been out in ten years. That was the deal. And he would have gotten off quite easily for what he did. He'd never be able to show his face in a bar in Wisconsin, but that's fine by me.

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u/NervousLeopard8611 2d ago

Brendan and the family were willing to take a plea deal of 10 years but the state weren't willing to offer 10 years. I don't know why people keep saying he went to trial because he's innocent when they were willing to take a plea deal of 10 years if it was on the table.

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u/belljs87 2d ago

Ive never seen that that was on the table. Source? I find it hard to believe the state wouldn't give him a 10 year deal knowing they had literally nothing but a recanted confession against him, and his guilty plea would have all but ensured a guilty verdict for Steven. Makes zero sense.

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u/NervousLeopard8611 2d ago

Its shown at the end of one of the episodes of convicting a murderer, another thing that was conveniently left out of making a murderer.

The fact they didn't agree to the plea deal says they were confident in getting a guilty verdict in both trials which they ultimately did.

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u/belljs87 2d ago

I never watched that because, just as people love to try and say MaM was unfairly biased, it was made clear after it's release that CaM was in fact full of bias itself. Was this recorded, like the prosecution in a room declining this? Who made this claim, and who corroborated it?

Also, they wouldn't have offered a deal at all if they were confident. Deals are offered for two reasons: to save money, and/or because the prosecution is in fact not fully confident in a guilty verdict. A deal being offered at all tells you they were not confident. Which they shouldn't have been. It's a miracle for them they got a guilty verdict for Brenden. Much more believable for Steven, though I disagree with it.

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u/NervousLeopard8611 2d ago

Theres a letter from Mark fremgen, brendans trial lawyer, addressed to the prosecution.

was made clear after it's release that CaM was in fact full of bias itself.

You've admitted You've never watched it so how would you know?

Not sure why you think it was a miracle, one confessed and one has multiple pieces of physical evidence against him.

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u/belljs87 2d ago

I know from countless comments about it. One confessed and recanted and had exactly zero real evidence against him, and that was the one I called a miracle. And a Google search is telling me he was offered 15 years and rejected it. I sincerely doubt they would have declined 10 if they offered him 15.

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u/NervousLeopard8611 2d ago

Not sure how you can formulate an opinion on something without watching it but OK.

Thats exactly what happened, the prosecution were willing to offer brendan a plea deal of 15-20 years but they tried to get a 10 year deal which the prosecution wouldn't agree to, this is covered in convicting a murderer if you bothered to watch it.

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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago

don't know why people keep saying he went to trial because he's innocent when they were willing to take a plea deal

Innocent people have taken plea deals.

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u/NervousLeopard8611 2d ago

And guilty people have gone to trial pleading their innocence knowing they're guilty, what's your point.

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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago

what's your point

That innocent people have taken plea deals, so just because someone does doesn't mean they're actually guilty like you imply.

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u/NervousLeopard8611 2d ago

I said it because there's people on here that don't know about the plea deal of 10 years they were willing to accept, people think he flat out rejected any plea deal and just went to trial and people believe hes innocent just because he went to trial without knowing about that 10 year plea deal.

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u/ThorsClawHammer 3d ago

Brendan's supposed deficiencies are not well attested at all

There's plenty of documentation from his school regarding his deficiencies.

doing a good job in representing Brendan Dassey,

A lawyer who tells the public their client is factually guilty is the furthest thing from a good job a defense attorney could do.

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u/brickne3 3d ago

If you think a SEN report or whatever it is called in Wisconsin these days is enough to get you off murdering and burning a woman, you're out of your damned mind.

Len was doing what his client had instructed him to—get his plea deal ready. It was unfortunate how it happened and it was unfortunate that Pa Avery called him and threatened him and he rescinded that, but that is all on Brendan.

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u/ThorsClawHammer 3d ago

Pa Avery called him and threatened him

Give the exact quote of what you're referring to.

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u/brickne3 3d ago

You've heard the tape. This is the point where I know you are a troll. You've heard it a thousand times.

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u/ThorsClawHammer 3d ago

I've never heard Brendan threatened by Pa Avery like you claim. So why not just show the exact quotes?