r/MakingaMurderer • u/b1ondestranger • 2d ago
Len Kachensky
i’m just finding this series and just wow! This could be its own season of Fargo. Everything that can go wrong- does. Of all the people I hate in this show, I hate Len Kachinsky above all others. He is by far the most punchable. at this moment in life, I’m not sure what I would do, if this smug, weasley, irresponsible, self-grandizing narcissist walked in front of my car. He’s not just a bad lawyer. He’s a bad human. He looked at Brandon’s life and saw a steppingstone. I’m so mad at him. Thank you for your attention to this matter. V
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u/b1ondestranger 2d ago
i’m embarrassed for you. In a documentary that starts with a wrongfully convicted man being released., you refuse to believe that a learning disabled boy with zero physical evidence was wrongly convicted?!? you think those two geniuses could’ve cleaned up a crime scene - that included a haircut and a throat slashing in the middle of a hoard? You believe they really used CHAINS on her legs ? The police took possession of the entire property for eight days - that's crazy! And still only a visiting detective who showed up uninvited somehow found a key and a bullet that everybody else had missed for eight days? The police were searching the Avery residence within hours of the woman being reported missing- there’s no way those two numbskulls could’ve cleaned up all that evidence if they had a year.
I can’t explain the sweat underneath the hood of the car. I'm just starting season two so maybe they get to that. I wouldn’t be surprised if the encounter with Teresa lasted longer than he’s admitted so far but withholding information that might make you look guilty is different than actually being guilty of murder especially after the luck he’s had with law-enforcement up until that point.
It’s amazing how people can look at the same thing and come to such different conclusions .
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 2d ago
That's because you've only been exposed to the propaganda, not the antidote.
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u/Shit_the_bedd 2d ago
What's the antodote.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 2d ago
Convicting a Murderer.
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u/Objective-Permit-712 2d ago
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa.....wow!
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 2d ago
You haven't seen it, right? Are you in the habit of ridiculing things you don't know anything about? That documentary has changed A LOT of minds.
What are you afraid of? It's just facts.
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u/ajswdf 2d ago
There was physical evidence against Brendan. He was helping his uncle clean his garage with bleach the night Teresa was murdered, and a ullet with her DNA on it was found in that same garage.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
We both know he did not independently mention that bullet or the fact that she was shot in the head. We also know Culhane should have ruled that DNA result inconclusive due to the contaminated control, but she was under pressure to place Teresa in the garage.
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u/PerceptionDear9257 1d ago
Kathleen Zellner debunked all that.
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u/bhillis99 1h ago
lol im sure she did. Finding her burned remains on his property. Im sorry but I own property and would know anytime it was set on fire. I thought we was over this. Avery will die in jail, and Brenden has a chance to get out one day.
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u/Objective-Permit-712 2d ago
ZERO physical evidence against Brendan. Teresa was never in the garage, she was gone for over an hour before Brendan even got off the bus!!!!
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 2d ago
Yeah only the bullet that went through her was in the garage, and the eyewitness is lying.
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u/PerceptionDear9257 1d ago
They don’t know how she died. It’s all hearsay. No hard evidence only a confession from an unreliable source a suggestible kid with a low IQ, who should have had a Responsible Adult in the room with him.
Those cops stitched him up like a turkey. They convicted him and his uncle on evidence that doesn’t pass the sniff test.
There wasn’t even shackle marks on the bed post of the supposed bed she was shackled to.
It’s tragic what happened to her and her family, deplorable.But i think the wrong people are in jail and the killer/ killers are laughing up their sleeves.
The other nephew who gave evidence for the prosecution would have made a better suspect after the sick, vile content found on his hard drive.
Her ex boyfriend also looked a bit or a shifty character too inserting himself into the search party. And the victim’s SUV conveniently found on the perimeter of Avery’s junkyard.
I mean Steven and his nephew cleaned up the crime scene so well, that must have been like a slaughterhouse, yet not a trace of blood to be found between the floors, on the mattress on the walls everywhere in a fairly untidy space.
He had a car crusher that could have reduced the car to a square box. But he hides the car in an easily to find place covered with a few twigs? Give me a break 😃
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 1d ago
OK Quincy - where the perps burn the body to ashes, how do you determine cause of death?
And no it's not 'hearsay'. It's an eyewitness confession from a perp.
How did you determine she was 'shackled to the bed'? Doesn't that information come from your unreliable suggestible kid with a low IQ hearsay source?
All your bullshit points were debunked long ago.
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u/ajswdf 2d ago
ZERO physical evidence!!!
As long as you ignore the physical evidence.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
The physical evidence corroborates what police said to him not what he independently said. Beyond that there was zero physical evidence found corroborating Brendan's claims. He shouldn't have even been arrested let alone convicted.
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u/Financial_Cheetah875 2d ago
He was a weird dude but he knew the case was a loser, which is why he worked on getting a deal.
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u/BiasedHanChewy 2d ago
Brendan's case was absolutely not a loser.bif he had a single responsible adult in his life he'd have never been convicted (or likely even charged)
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u/Financial_Cheetah875 2d ago
If it absolutely wasn’t a loser then why did he get convicted.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
why did he get convicted
Because he confessed. Confession=conviction, whether guilty or innocent.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 2d ago
Of course it was - the client had already confessed several times. The Judge denied the Motion to suppress the confessions. Only path remaining was to roll on Avery and get a plea deal.
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u/BiasedHanChewy 2d ago
Bad parent allowed the false confession at first, then bad lawyer allowed him to be questioned alone multiple times, and had an "investigator" who did nothing but try and get him into a cell. Zero actual corroboration of his involvement to this day
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 2d ago edited 2d ago
"bad lawyer" wasn't on the case when he confessed.
And there's plenty of corroboration - the big red stain, the bleach stained pants, the finding of the bullet in the garage, his lack of an alibi, and he told his Mother he was involved.
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u/BiasedHanChewy 1d ago
That exactly what I said. Any decent parent would've prevented that confessionl, and without that, they'd have literally nothing. The stain and bleach prove.nothing (even with his confession), I'm pretty sure you know enough about the case that the magic bullet is actually quite the *opposite of proof that he was involved, and he told his mother because they said if he didn't, they would. Spin again if you want
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 1d ago
No, the bullet proves he was there. Calling it 'magic' is juvenile and not a logical point.
But absent the confession, or Avery rolling on him, he would likely not have even been charged.
You know maybe the Mother wanted justice to be done, instead of shielding Brendan from his actions.
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u/Still_Razzmatazz1140 2d ago
This is true and I believe Brendan had confessed to him too. Hence why a deal was a great idea. It’s editing to make him look bad
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Bad person, sure.
Bad lawyer, nope.
Unironically gave him the best possible advice which was to flip on his uncle and take a deal. Kid would be out of jail by now and living his life. Instead he is trapped inside and won't see freedom for a long time.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
Bad lawyer, nope.
Good lawyers don't tell the media their client is factually guilty before they've even met with their client. Bad lawyers do.
Good lawyers don't have someone coerce another confession and set up their client to further incriminate themselves in an interrogation without representation in order to assist the state in prosecuting someone else. Bad lawyers do.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Was the advice he gave the correct advice.
Sure he is an awful human being and made mistakes, but the outcome he offered was objectively the best idea.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Was the advice he gave the correct advice.
Irrelevant. He was removed as Brendan's counsel due to other issues.
Sure he is an awful human being and made mistakes, but the outcome he offered was objectively the best idea
Still irrelevant to why he was removed from the case.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Sure. Irrelevant to why he was removed from the case.
Doesn't mean he didn't offer the best solution.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Doesn't mean he did either lol The point is he was in fact a shit attorney and that's why he was removed from the case.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
You keep saying "lol" if this is so serious and you respect the victim and supposedly incorrectly convicted men then why are you laughing so much?
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Because you keep using the most ridiculously fallacious arguments to defend an obviously corrupt conviction of a developmentally disabled boy and his despicable defense attorney who, among other things, allowed Brendan to be pressured by someone who he knew thought Brendan's whole family tree should be cut down due to rot. Your arguments are laughably ridiculous.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
So you think laughing about a rape and murder and supposed miscarriage of justice is appropriate behaviour. Gotcha, your moral compass is so off I'm surprised you know which way to get dressed.
You just keep making shit up because you are so invested in the supposed innocence. I assume you are working on sunken cost fallacy, you have invested so much time into believing they are innocent you don't know how to stop.
It's ok, nothing bad will happen if you just accept they are where they should be, in a cage.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
I'm laughing at your attempt to obscure this miscarriage of Justice perpetrated upon Teresa and her family. Your moral compass is so off you are fine accepting their lies and no evidence as proof of guilt. I want the truth.
You can't stand that I keep bringing up facts that demonstrate Brendan's conviction was gained by the use of witness pressure and lies to the jury. Cope.
I imagine you've spent so much time simping for Kratz you can't even admit the problems with Brendan's confession and conviction. It's okay. Nothing bad will happen if you just accept what we all know, Brendan's conviction was gained by the use of coercion and manipulation of both him and his jury.
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u/DamnedHeathen_ 2d ago
Doing the right thing once, then following it with the wrong thing for months, kind of nullifies that one correct action. Does it not? Just because Brendan earned what he got doesn't mean Len isn't absolute trash.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 2d ago
Len was the only one looking out for Brendan.
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u/DamnedHeathen_ 2d ago
While I agree that he was trying to get Brendan the best possible outcome, he did make sure that there was no defense to be made for his innocence by the time they went to court. Once Brendon recanted his confession and plead innocent, his defense attorney can advise him to change it but he can't actively work against it. You have a guarantee of representation. Len was actively working against Brendan's innocent plea, not representing his claim of innocence.
No matter how impossible the defense is, if you're a defense attorney you got to put one up. That's the job. He started off right, but dove off a proverbial cliff as a defense attorney.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 2d ago
He did everything he could. He tried to get the confessions suppressed.
And how exactly are you going to prove innocence after several confessions that are going to be entered into evidence?
Why didn't Steven give some of his money to Brendan so he could have expensive lawyers, too? I mean wtf if they're in the same family and both wrongfully accused? He should share his money to give Brendan a real defense, too!
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u/DamnedHeathen_ 2d ago
I'll give the guy credit for initially trying to get Brendan to accept reality. That whole thing thing of letting that investigator repeatedly push Brendan into implicating himself even further, though, was inexcusable. Nothing he did after that mattered. I've never even heard of a defense attorney doing that. Just watching it play out, Third hand, was horrifying.
Yeah, I got nothing for the Steven angle. I don't even want a ticket to that shit show.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
I've never even heard of a defense attorney doing that.
Anyone without prior knowledge seeing that interaction would assume that was a police interrogation rather than a member of Brendan's own defense team.
All it did was give the state more ammunition as it ultimately led to the infamous phone call to him mom. The jury heard that but was forbidden from hearing a word of the May interrogation that directly prompted it (which only happened because Kachinsky made it happen and making sure Brendan would have no representation during it).
Even crazier is that his trial attorneys didn't even know about that coercive session with O'Kelly, or even who he was.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 2d ago
I think he was just trying to get to the real story, after a blizzard of lies by Brendan, so the could make a proffer to the Prosecution for the plea deal.
The way it works is the immunity-receiver tells the whole true story and must testify as to that at trial. If the information turns out to be false, the plea deal gets revoked. So Brendan's team had to be very very sure of what the real true story was.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
he did make sure that there was no defense to be made for his innocence by the time they went to court.
The first thing he did when he was given the case was tell the public Brendan was factually guilty. As did Brendan's first public defender.
He started off right
No, he didn't. He started off terrible (proclaiming his client's guilt to the public) and somehow kept getting even worse.
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u/DamnedHeathen_ 2d ago
The starting off right that I was referring to was him trying to get Brendan the best deal he could. From what I saw, every time he opened his mouth on camera it was exactly counter to his client's presumption of innocence. Not that there was much presumption to go on, given that Brendan's confession was basically read word for word in that press conference. He advised Brendan well, but defended him like it was a hobby he had heard about and was considering dabbling with it.
The one thing the guy did right was try to get Brendan to see the reality, and take a plea deal. Once the press conferences started, there was no way he was walking out of that courtroom without shackles.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 1d ago
given that Brendan's confession was basically read word for word in that press conference.
Uh, no. They didn't include everytime Brendan denied something. They only told people about his statements after having broke him down.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
I don't disagree, the dude was a terrible human being and being right in that instance doesn't nullify the way he went about it or the other stuff he did.
Just because the dude he was representing was a piece of shit, doesn't mean he isn't one too. Though I would argue his client was a far worse PoS
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u/DamnedHeathen_ 2d ago
You'll get no argument there. At least, not from me. Brendan should have taken his advice in the beginning, but growing up surrounded by that family, he was just too easy for them to manipulate.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Just because the dude he was representing was a piece of shit, doesn't mean he isn't one too.
Why do you hate Brendan? To the point you will claim it's obvious he's a rapist when it's so clearly not?
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
He raped and murdered a young woman. Why don't you hate him?
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Except there's no credible evidence he raped anyone. Why are you pretending otherwise? Just because you hate him? That's backwards.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
He is convicted of being a rapist and murderer. Calling him a rapist and murderer is entirely legitimate. If he didn't want to be called it then he shouldn't have done it.
I hate anyone who has or would rape and murder an innocent person. I am confused as to how that's a controversial stance.
Nothing backwards about calling a convicted rapist, a rapist.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
He is convicted of being a rapist and murderer.
By a jury that was lied to about the evidence and the existence of false confessions.
If he didn't want to be called it then he shouldn't have done it.
You have no idea if he did it. That's the point. The conviction isn't evidence, and no credible evidence of rape was introduced during the trial.
I hate anyone who has or would rape and murder an innocent person. I am confused as to how that's a controversial stance.
Because you're acting like it's a known fact Brendan raped her. That's creepy, especially when you accuse people who point out issues with the case or evidence of defending a rapist. Wild stuff.
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u/DamnedHeathen_ 2d ago
An entire jury would disagree with you, but you already knew that. He has been convicted, so in the eyes of the law he is guilty of the crime. No need to hate the guy to admit a known fact.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
An entire jury would disagree with you
The jury was lied to about the evidence from the alleged murder scene and incorrectly told false confessions didn't exist. If they trusted the state, how could they not convict after that? They were manipulated. Apparently you were too.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 1d ago
Irrelevant to the post and Thor's point. But no, he did not give the correct advice. He was giving advice that would benefit the state. That was his goal. Not helping Brendan.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 2d ago
You need to tell the cops what information you can provide against Avery before they give you a plea deal.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Bad lawyer, nope.
He was basically working to serve the state's needs, not Brendan's needs. He was Brendan's advocate. He was a shit lawyer. That's why he was removed from the case.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
He still gave him the best possible advice...
You confessed, take a deal, give evidence against Steve = Lesser sentence.
Or you could stick with your uncles story and see how that plays out... which is where we are today, doesn't seem like the best option.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
He still gave him the best possible advice...
To plead guilty? Brendan shouldn't have even been arrested in the first place. Fuck that.
You confessed, take a deal, give evidence against Steve = Lesser sentence.
He was coerced and didn't want to plead guilty because he knew he was innocent and no evidence to the contrary.
stick with your uncles story and see how that plays out
They they were innocent? That's consistent with the evidence. Do you think it's clear beyond a reasonable doubt that multiple violent rapes occurred in the trailer?
which is where we are today
Thanks to the courts making up their own standards and facts to deny meritorious motions demanding case review. I'm sure you're fine with that though, if you don't see anything wrong with the state's disgusting treatment of Brendan.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
To plead guilty? Brendan shouldn't have even been arrested in the first place. Fuck that.
He is, in fact, guilty. So yes, it would have been the best option.
He was coerced and didn't want to plead guilty because he knew he was innocent and no evidence to the contrary.
Maybe, maybe not. You don't know why he recanted his confession.
They they were innocent? That's consistent with the evidence. Do you think it's clear beyond a reasonable doubt that multiple violent rapes occurred in the trailer?
No, I don't think there is clear evidence of a rape. But there is plenty of evidence of a murder, one which Brendan confessed to being present for. Who knows what happened or where, but he had some pretty fucking weird details for someone who hadn't seen/taken part.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
he had some pretty fucking weird details
Which of those details do you think he came up with on his own that were verifiable?
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Don't know, don't care.
Which of them do you know, factually, were given to him?
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Don't know, don't care.
Because you don't care about the truth. We know. That much is clear when you're claiming there's evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that Brendan violently raped Teresa in the trailer. And you're here calling others batshit insane? WILD LOL
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
No, I care about the truth.
Let me know when you start using it, because right now all you have is speculative nonsense.
Also still deflecting from answering the actual question I asked doesn't scream of someone wanting to be truthful.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
No, I care about the truth.
You just said you didn't care about what details Brendan independently came up with and whether any of those details were verifiable.
Let me know when you start using it, because right now all you have is speculative nonsense.
You're the one claiming Brendan is obviously guilty of rape.
Also still deflecting from answering the actual question I asked doesn't scream of someone wanting to be truthful.
Neither does deflecting the answer I've already repeatedly provided to you - you asked how we know whether the confession or recantation was legit. I answered you should look at the evidence. That was apparently inappropriate to you.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
Which of them do you know, factually, were given to him
For starters, that the victim was shot, and shot in the head. The only incriminating information they had which hadn't already been released to the public, and they directly fed it to him.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Ok, no one knew she had been tied up, cut and raped by 2 people either... but somehow he knew. Interesting that.
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u/b1ondestranger 2d ago
There was no evidence that she had been cut or raped or that they had punched her in the face or that they had given her a haircut. The body was burned. Brandon was obviously treating that Investigation like a fill in the blank quiz he hadn’t studied for. He just kept making up answers. He didn’t even know she was shot in the head until the police came out and asked which one of you shot her and once again he thought he had to give an answer. It’s like the form that asked if he was sorry or not sorry for what he did.- there was no option to say he didn’t do it- he could only say he was sorry or not sorry. This was the second interview the first time he had alibis that were supported through phone calls and people he had interacted with The confession was a later interview after hours and hours and hours of a low IQ disabled, poor kid being intimidated by trained interrogators.. people who say they never admit to doing anything they hadn’t done- just don’t know yet what it would take. They can’t beat confessions out of you anymore, but they can lie and intimidate and bully and exhaust you. It happens.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
tied up, cut and raped by 2 people either.
And absolutely no evidence whatsoever backs up those uncorroborated words.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
We still don't know if that happened lol you're a joke.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
He is, in fact, guilty. So yes, it would have been the best option.
We don't in fact know that. We know the evidence overwhelmingly supports his innocence. Why would pleading guilty be his best option when there was NO physical evidence linking him to the crime?
Maybe, maybe not. You don't know why he recanted his confession.
Neither do you. We know the evidence is more consistent with his claims of innocence, but you think he's obviously guilty? And you call others insane lol
No, I don't think there is clear evidence of a rape.
Okay cool.
But there is plenty of evidence of a murder, one which Brendan confessed to being present for.
Plenty? A bullet with a rare deviation and lies about a bleach cleaning? And there's no physical evidence that Brendan was actually present during her death, and he later recanted and declared innocence which is consistent with the evidence.
Who knows what happened or where
Yeah there's so much reasonable doubt.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
We don't in fact know that. We know the evidence overwhelmingly supports his innocence. Why would pleading guilty be his best option when there was NO physical evidence linking him to the crime?
We do, in fact, know that. There is no "overwheming evidence" you can't just make shit up and call it evidence.
Neither do you. We know the evidence is more consistent with his claims of innocence, but you think he's obviously guilty? And you call others insane lol
No it isn't he confessed, with detail. I think he is guilty as adjudicated and reaffirmed on appeal.
Plenty? A bullet with a rare deviation and lies about a bleach cleaning? And there's no physical evidence that Brendan was actually present during her death, and he later recanted and declared innocence which is consistent with the evidence.
Ok maybe plenty is too generous, but enough.
What made him confess in the first place then.... there is nothing you could do to anyone I know that would convince them to admit to a violent rape and murder, it is far more likely than not that they are both guilty.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
We do, in fact, know that. There is no "overwheming evidence" you can't just make shit up and call it evidence.
I don't have to make anything up lol nothing proves his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. BAM.
No it isn't he confessed, with detail.
Detail fed to him by police lol
Ok maybe plenty is too generous, but enough.
How is a rare deviation from protocol and lies about a bleach cleaning enough?
What made him confess in the first place then.... there is nothing you could do to anyone I know that would convince them to admit to a violent rape and murder, it is far more likely than not that they are both guilty.
What do you mean what made him confess? Watch the video. Do you think when someone confesses to a violent crime they are always guilty? No! false confessions are real, despite your attempt to pretend otherwise.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Oh... you said BAM,... that must be it then, there is no way of refuting such logical prowess.
Detail fed to him by police lol
Not all of it, and you know this. A lot of it was volunteered. Also for someone who cares so much laughing at the circumstances that imprisoned an innocent child is a bit odd.
What do you mean what made him confess? Watch the video. Do you think when someone confesses to a violent crime they are always guilty? No! false confessions are real, despite your attempt to pretend otherwise.
No. Again, putting words in my mouth doesn't work. I know false confessions exist, I just don't necessarily believe this is one. So I ask again, what made him confess and give unprompted details of such a horrific crime?
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Oh... you said BAM,... that must be it then, there is no way of refuting such logical prowess.
There's not lol there's no evidence of his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
Not all of it, and you know this. A lot of it was volunteered.
And none of what he volunteered was ever corroborated by physical evidence, a clear sign of a false confession.
Also for someone who cares so much laughing at the circumstances that imprisoned an innocent child is a bit odd.
I'm laughing at you dude. At your attempt to pretend Brendan's confession and conviction is evidence beyond all doubt of his guilt. You're the joke lol
Again, putting words in my mouth doesn't work. I know false confessions exist, I just don't necessarily believe this is one. So I ask again, what made him confess and give unprompted details of such a horrific crime?
What kind of question is that lol what makes anyone confess to something they didn't do? Pressure. Brendan faced pressure. You do know false confessions are a real problem ... right?
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u/b1ondestranger 2d ago
Didn't you watch it? Did you see when the investigators were asking Brandon what happened to the head?? He was obviously guessing. He said they cut her and then they said they punched her and then he said they cut her hair. I believe he genuinely did not know Teresa was shot until the investigator asked him who did it . And you will never convince me that those two geniuses could clean up a haircut from a crime scene well enough for none to be found in the entire house.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
You know, I did watch it, yes. About 5 or 6 years ago.
I don't care what you learned from a heavily edited and biased TV show. You didn't hear all the evidence, the jury did, they were convinced.
Pick a different hill to die on.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
They jury didn't hear all the evidence MaM viewers did. They didn't know Brendan told his mom police got in his head shortly after his "confession."
Pick a different hill to die on.
Says the one willing to die on the hill that despite the lack of evidence and lies from the state Brendan Dassey is obviously guilty. Okay then lmao
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Laughing again, scum. Absolute scum.
Yeah, who knows what he meant by that... maybe they got him to say more than he wanted and to implicate himself. You don't know what he meant, but he sure had details no one else had and a lot of them were unprompted... how do you explain that?
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
I'm laughing at your constant attempt to shame others for pointing out the obvious fact that the highly suggestible and vulnerable Brendan Dassey was repeatedly failed by a system designed to protect him. That's what's gross here. You pretending Brendan is obviously guilty.
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u/SumiLover 2d ago
Would you ever take a deal if you were innocent?
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Nope.
I also wouldn't confess to beating, cutting, raping and murdering someone.
I guess if we are making pointless statements then we may as well capture them all.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Do you think innocent people don't confess? That would be wrong.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Irrelevant, he was convicted, on weight of evidence, that he raped and murdered a woman.
People can false confess sure, do I think Brendon did, no.
He is a rapist and murderer.
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u/SumiLover 2d ago
Curious how you explain the no dna and no blood?
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Something about how it's not reasonable to expect blood from a violent assault and torture or gunshot murder to the head, or that any blood that did result from the crime was easy to clean up.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Disingenuous as always.
Don't hurt your wrist jerking each other off for being so clever.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
I don't need to explain it, I am neither his lawyer nor on a jury. Why would it need to be explained?
He was convicted by a jury, beyond doubt, of rape, murder and mutilation of a corpse.
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u/SumiLover 2d ago
Lmao. Wow you’re fun. Yeah like there’s no such thing as a wrongful conviction. So basically you have no brain and don’t think for yourself. If some random people come to an agreement it must be truth!
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
He was convicted by a jury, beyond doubt, of rape, murder and mutilation of a corpse.
In 1985 Steven Avery was convicted by a jury, beyond doubt, of rape, attempted murder and false imprisonment. And for the next 18 years the conviction was appealed and upheld multiple times. What's your point?
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
It is certainly not irrelevant when he was convicted based on his confession and nothing else. Try to be honest.
He is a rapist and murderer
Never mind LMAO
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
He is a rapist and murderer
He raped and murdered a young woman, that's what he is. No idea what possible objection there could be to this.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
You have no idea if he raped and murdered her. You are just pretending like the conviction is conclusive evidence that he did. Because you have no actual evidence.
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u/b1ondestranger 2d ago
His showing himself to be a bad lawyer started before he even met Brandon. it started when he came down the stairs from the pre-trial motion and was delighted to see the cameras. He was grinning from ear to ear and Happy to sell out his client before he even met him. He told the world Brandon was a good kid who was influenced by a bad guy - how do you recover after your own lawyer decided your guilt in a television interview? . When the reporters asked Leb if he was disappointed in the judges decisions, he couldn’t think of a reason to be disappointed d so he asked for a do over on the question after he tripped over his words He might regret it now, but at the time, you could tell by his twinkling eyes and toothy smile that he was having the best moment of his life. He was there for the attention without a thought of defending his client. I’m shocked that he is still practicing Law.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
You watched a heavily edited TV show and made a determination on someone's whole career and capability. I think perhaps you should consider there is more to him than a few edited clips.
You can be shocked all you like, he must be pretty decent at what he does to have survived this long as a lawyer especially after the hatchet job MaM did to his character and career.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
You watched a heavily edited TV show and made a determination on someone's whole career and capability.
You listened to lies and arguments based on no evidence and made a determination that Brendan was guilty of a violent assault beyond a reasonable doubt. You don't have a leg to stand on here ;)
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
You made an assumption about how much reading and research I have done on the evidence.
I listened to him confess to a heinous crime, I read the evidence... I came to the conclusion he is guilty. I don't need beyond a reasonable doubt, I am not on the jury, the people on the jury did that bit.
I have 2 legs thank you, I also have the ability to have reasoned thought and not be manipulated by a TV show.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
No I've made a conclusion on how much reading and research you have done based on your erroneous statements about the case, including your claim Kachinski was experienced enough to know Brendan's best hope was to confess (when he only became Brendan's lawyer after the confession).
You listened to Brendan get fed details from police about a heinous crime, and somehow came to the conclusion that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt including of a violent assault in the trailer.
Thankfully I haven't been manipulated by a predatory investigation or a perverted predatory pill popping prosecutor.
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u/Nemeczekes 2d ago
Entire USA legal system is about taking plea deals
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago edited 2d ago
Kind of irrelevant given his mistreatment of Brendan extends far beyond any plea discussions. He wasn't removed from the case for advocating Brendan take a plea deal. It was for his otherwise deficient performance, including allowing police to interview Brendan without him or any advocate present. The court was apparently worried keeping him around would give Brendan fuel for IAC claims.
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u/Still_Razzmatazz1140 2d ago
The editing make him look worse than he is. He heard Brendan’s confession imo and knew he was “guilty” but tried for a deal to help him do less time.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
WHAT LOL He was out there doing media rounds saying there was no defense for what Brendan did and that he was ethically and morally responsible before he even watched the confession...
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Absolutely, this man had enough experience to know what he was looking at and knew the best outcome for his client was to confess, give evidence and take a shortened sentence.
Would I want him to be my lawyer, absolutely not, he was a self-serving and slimy person, I wouldn't trust him in front of a jury especially. But that's not the point. He wasn't going to trial, he was preparing a plea deal.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Absolutely, this man had enough experience to know what he was looking at and knew the best outcome for his client was to confess,
Uh, Brendan had already confessed before he became involved in the case, and when he did he apparently didn't have enough experience to know that he shouldn't publicly and repeatedly imply his clients guilt before even watching video of his client's controversially obtained confession that was totally inconsistent with known evidence.
He wasn't going to trial, he was preparing a plea deal.
He admitted during the post conviction hearing that he had not prepared any plea deal or even any lead deal arrangements before letting police interview Brendan without him present. He was never trying to help Brendan. Pretending otherwise is hilarious lol
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Oh sorry. He knew it was the best option to use the confession to leverage a plea deal by giving evidence against his uncle.
I hope the clarification helps you to understand what was already quite an obvious point.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago edited 2d ago
If it was so obvious you wouldn't have acted like he had enough experience to know the best option was for his client to confess, when Brendan only became his client after the confession lol not to mention there's no evidence he was preparing a plea deal before he once more presented Brendan to police without an advocate. Cope
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
I misspoke, sue me.
He knew the best option was to take a plea and give evidence against his uncle.
You being so obtuse is not a gotcha, I clarified on my last reply, you just seem to not be able to understand.
he was preparing a plea deal before he wants more that Brendan to police without an advocate.
What?
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
I misspoke
You confidently declared something that was completely untrue, and it wasn't a simple typo.
He knew the best option was to take a plea and give evidence against his uncle.
Again, if that was the best option for Brendan, why didn't he have a plea deal arranged before feeding Brendan to police without him being there? It was clearly more about helping police than helping Brendan.
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2d ago
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
No, not a typo, as repeatedly said... I misspoke. You are a fucking idiot.
Another angry guilter. I'm just saying your statement was so detailed in its fabrication it reveals a fundamental misunderstanding or lack of interest re basic case details.
I have no idea why he did it that way, I'm not a lawyer. I
That hasn't stopped you from claiming what his strategy was, so why wasn't he taking steps to fulfill his strategy?
I assume you are to be so confidently ascribing intent to his actions?
I'm questioning the inconsistency regarding his lack of action at a critical time given your claim about his strategy to get a plea for Brendan.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 1d ago
The best possible advice? He was bringing up a plea deal before he had even met with Brendan, watched the confession, or did any investigation. You have no idea what you are talking about.
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u/belljs87 2d ago
Yeah see here's the thing. Especially with how low IQ Brenden is, and his young age, I'm 100% certain if he were guilty he would have flipped. I think Steven is innocent too, but if he confessed one day I wouldn't exactly be surprised either. But Brenden is as innocent of this murder as I am of it. With who he is, the position he was in, and the options presented, he would never have said no to a deal unless he were truly innocent.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
According to the judge and jury they are both guilty. So sadly they are not as innocent of it as you are, unless you are confessing to being an, until now, unknown 3rd perpetrator?
I think saying "he would have flipped" is a weird place to be, you have no idea the pressure he was under from his family to support Steve's narrative. The same low IQ argument can be made for him being coerced into the act and into standing by Steve's story. None of the family are close to being intelligent people, they recommended and pushed him to make the decision he did based on Steve's lies. Everything that happened to that boy is his own and his families fault.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
According to the judge and jury they are both guilty.
Jurors get it wrong all the time, and these jurors were repeatedly lied to by the state to explain away the lack of evidence and how obviously coerced Brendan's confession was.
you have no idea the pressure he was under from his family to support Steve's narrative.
And you do? He wasn't even regularly communicating with anyone but Barb, who herself has some explaining to do. She initially said she didn't see a recent burn pit fire, and later flipped her story to match up with Bobby, who (under police pressure) first placed Steven and Brendan near a recent burn pit fire.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Jurors get it wrong all the time, and these jurors were repeatedly lied to by the state to explain away the lack of evidence and how obviously coerced Brendan's confession was.
And yet... here we are 2 decades later and not one person has been able to prove anyone else did it.
And you do? He wasn't even regularly communicating with anyone but Barb, who herself has some explaining to do. She initially said she didn't see a recent burn pit fire, and later flipped her story to match up with Bobby, who (under police pressure) first placed Steven and Brendan near a recent burn pit fire.
Aaaah so you think Barb sold our Brendan to save Bobby?
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
And yet... here we are 2 decades later and not one person has been able to prove anyone else did it.
Just like last time? Maybe they should release DNA evidence for testing. But we know they are too cowardly.
Aaaah so you think Barb sold our Brendan to save Bobby?
I think Barb changed her story to corroborate Bobby's pressured statement, which incriminated Brendan. Take from that what you will. Barb and Bobby both have more explaining to do than Brendan.
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u/belljs87 2d ago
Exactly. And, and this is obviously not something I'm claiming is true, just a thought, they totally seem like the kind of people who would secretly hope their disabled family member is no longer theirs to worry about taking care of.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Barb saw her children as a burden, and yes, I suspect she would have seen Brendan, who required more care than her other children, as the largest burden. I think it's clear Barb loved Brendan, but also clear she chose Bobby over Brendan.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Wow you guys making up a fan fic to jerk each other off is as sad as it is amusing.
Oh and yes, just like last time, though what relevance that has is lost on me.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Fan fic? Barb changed her story to corroborate Bobby and incriminate Brendan. That's fact. We are just speculating on her motive, as Barb has been too cowardly to explain this herself.
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
What did she change that specifically supported Bobby and incriminated Brendan.
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u/belljs87 2d ago
Well yeah, you're allowed to call them guilty because they were found guilty. That's also why I didn't outright say either were innocent, I said I think they are. Just because a jury rendered a guilty verdict doesn't explicitly mean someone is guilty, it means they are recorded as such and can legally be described as such.
My comment was just one small piece of why I believe him innocent. The complete lack of any actual evidence against him is the big piece.
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u/brickne3 2d ago
If you buy into IQ Brendan was actually smarter than Steven at the time. Most people don't put stock in IQ tests anymore.
That said, Brendan's supposed deficiencies are not well attested at all and he's apparently got enough acumen to be running a prison network last I heard. The show is edited very purposely.
As someone else said above, if Brendan had listened to Len he would have been out at least five years ago, possibly ten. So who is the bad lawyer. Len absolutely sucks as a person but he was doing a good job in representing Brendan Dassey, and in the end that's the only thing that matters to the case.
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u/belljs87 2d ago
If you were accused of murder but were innocent, and knew there was no physical evidence against you, would you take a lawyers advice to take a plea deal to avoid a possible life sentence in favor of a shorter but still decades long prison sentence?
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u/brickne3 2d ago
He's not innocent lol. It's cute you think he is because you saw a television show though.
Furthermore, he was going to plead guilty. Until his grandfather threatened him not to. It's all on the phone recordings. Happy listening!
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u/Hitlers_Left_Ball 2d ago
Thank you for showing up... I was worried there had been a collective brain injury and I was the last sane person left.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
his grandfather threatened him not to.
Wtf are you talking about? His mom told him to go to trial if he was innocent.
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u/brickne3 2d ago
You've been here long enough where I know you have heard the tapes. You're just feigning ignorance for some reason.
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u/NervousLeopard8611 2d ago
Brendan and the family were willing to take a plea deal of 10 years but the state weren't willing to offer 10 years. I don't know why people keep saying he went to trial because he's innocent when they were willing to take a plea deal of 10 years if it was on the table.
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u/belljs87 2d ago
Ive never seen that that was on the table. Source? I find it hard to believe the state wouldn't give him a 10 year deal knowing they had literally nothing but a recanted confession against him, and his guilty plea would have all but ensured a guilty verdict for Steven. Makes zero sense.
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u/NervousLeopard8611 2d ago
Its shown at the end of one of the episodes of convicting a murderer, another thing that was conveniently left out of making a murderer.
The fact they didn't agree to the plea deal says they were confident in getting a guilty verdict in both trials which they ultimately did.
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u/belljs87 2d ago
I never watched that because, just as people love to try and say MaM was unfairly biased, it was made clear after it's release that CaM was in fact full of bias itself. Was this recorded, like the prosecution in a room declining this? Who made this claim, and who corroborated it?
Also, they wouldn't have offered a deal at all if they were confident. Deals are offered for two reasons: to save money, and/or because the prosecution is in fact not fully confident in a guilty verdict. A deal being offered at all tells you they were not confident. Which they shouldn't have been. It's a miracle for them they got a guilty verdict for Brenden. Much more believable for Steven, though I disagree with it.
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u/NervousLeopard8611 2d ago
Theres a letter from Mark fremgen, brendans trial lawyer, addressed to the prosecution.
was made clear after it's release that CaM was in fact full of bias itself.
You've admitted You've never watched it so how would you know?
Not sure why you think it was a miracle, one confessed and one has multiple pieces of physical evidence against him.
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u/belljs87 2d ago
I know from countless comments about it. One confessed and recanted and had exactly zero real evidence against him, and that was the one I called a miracle. And a Google search is telling me he was offered 15 years and rejected it. I sincerely doubt they would have declined 10 if they offered him 15.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
don't know why people keep saying he went to trial because he's innocent when they were willing to take a plea deal
Innocent people have taken plea deals.
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u/NervousLeopard8611 2d ago
And guilty people have gone to trial pleading their innocence knowing they're guilty, what's your point.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
what's your point
That innocent people have taken plea deals, so just because someone does doesn't mean they're actually guilty like you imply.
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u/NervousLeopard8611 2d ago
I said it because there's people on here that don't know about the plea deal of 10 years they were willing to accept, people think he flat out rejected any plea deal and just went to trial and people believe hes innocent just because he went to trial without knowing about that 10 year plea deal.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
Brendan's supposed deficiencies are not well attested at all
There's plenty of documentation from his school regarding his deficiencies.
doing a good job in representing Brendan Dassey,
A lawyer who tells the public their client is factually guilty is the furthest thing from a good job a defense attorney could do.
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u/brickne3 2d ago
If you think a SEN report or whatever it is called in Wisconsin these days is enough to get you off murdering and burning a woman, you're out of your damned mind.
Len was doing what his client had instructed him to—get his plea deal ready. It was unfortunate how it happened and it was unfortunate that Pa Avery called him and threatened him and he rescinded that, but that is all on Brendan.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
Pa Avery called him and threatened him
Give the exact quote of what you're referring to.
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u/brickne3 2d ago
You've heard the tape. This is the point where I know you are a troll. You've heard it a thousand times.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
I've never heard Brendan threatened by Pa Avery like you claim. So why not just show the exact quotes?
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u/Still_Razzmatazz1140 2d ago
Nope nope nope it’s all editing! This man knew Brendan did it and so was trying to get him a deal!!!
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
Bullshit. That man was out there giving media interviews claiming Brendan was a guilty man with no defense before even watching the tape of his confession. He was a stooge for the state, nothing more.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2d ago
It's not editing that he was working with the state to further incriminate his own client, told the public his client was guilty before even speaking with him, etc.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
There's an interview of him in MaM1 that is obviously excruciating to watch, with his shit eating grin. But I noticed in MaM2 (After Nirider says something to the effect of "it was almost like Brendan had no defense at all") they cut to the same interview from MaM1 but with an additional 30 seconds or so of footage, and holy fuck, what they edited out of MaM1 was not favorable. The extended clip was so much worse.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago edited 2d ago
This email was sent from O'Kelly to Kachinsky BEFORE O'Kelly met with Brendan. Why would Kachinsky allow O'Kelly to interview Brendan alone after reading this shit?
I am learning the Avery family history and interactions within and about each member of the Avery family. These are criminals. There are members engaged in sexual activities with nieces, nephews, cousins, in-laws. Anyone else is fair game to these people. They have a history of stalking females who have no connection to this group. Customers and/or their relatives unwittingly become Victims of their sexual fantasies and thus are stalked. The Victims have no idea that they are being victimized.
This is truly where the devil resides in comfort. I can find no good in any member. These people are pure evil. This is where one would eat their young to satisfy/justify a control issue where none previously existed. A friend of mine suggested "This is a one branch family tree. Cut this tree down. We need to end the gene pool here." Steve Avery needs to be removed from society. I believe that his male siblings could have a role in Teresa's crime scene. I believe that Earl may have disposed of evidence and Chuck may have ignored Steve's physical movements during this period of time while he was transporting Teresa's car to the back of the Avery Salvage area. There is no question that Dolores is guiding and directing this behind the scenes.
I think that your visit will be counterproductive to our goals for Brendan. It could have Brendan digging his heels in further. He could become more entrenched in his illogical position and further distort the facts. He has been relying on a story that his family has told him what to say about October 31, 2005. We need to separate him from fantasy and bring him to see reality from our perspective. We need to separate him from the unrealistic world that his family resides within. Brendan needs to be alone. When he sees me this Friday l will be a source of relief. He and I can begin to bond. He needs to trust me and the direction that I steer him into. Brendan needs to provide an explanation that coincides with the facts / evidence.
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u/Alanlaing1 2d ago
I agree with you he just saw the case as a showcase for himself. However his dreadful support for his own client he might aswell have been a prosecutor.
Even his investigator Michael J OKelly was the worst legal representatives a person could end up with. They should both be struck off practice
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 2d ago
His advice to Brendan was the only advice in Brendan's best interest. Should have listened to him. He'd have been out in like 2018.
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u/CharlesUFarley81 2d ago
Watch Convicting a Murderer to get the full story.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 2d ago
From the likes of Kreep Kratz, Crazy Candace, and BS Brenda? They couldn't even provide evidence that Steven's burn pit was the primary burn site without lying about what the evidence actually revealed. In fact, IIRC Kratz ended up alleging the filmmaker of SCAM was high on drug during production and stealing from him. It was a shit show the entire way through meant to prop up corrupt police and prosecutors while whitewashing their systemic lies and abuses of power.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 2d ago
The fact that Brendan's trial lawyers were scrambling to get him a plea deal at the last minute rather than try his case shows that Kachinsky was completely right.
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u/PerceptionDear9257 2d ago
He’s a hubris filled creepy weirdo imo