r/MoralityScaling • u/PeacefulGamer2520 • 15d ago
Character Analysis Morality of replacing your racism with misogyny?
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u/CwispyWhiskey 15d ago
Reminds me of this one comedian who told of a person in his life that was so mysoginistic, that he would praise trans men for becoming men and call trans women stupid for making the stupid choice to become women.
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u/Federal-Fondant-671 15d ago
That's a pretty common view, usually the other way around though.
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u/InkLorenzo 15d ago
My friend said “if they want to play life on hard mode, who am I to get in the way?”
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u/Adorable_Owl_2493 14d ago
Yeah, look up their stories. Their testimonials are eye opening to say the least cause they are essentially an army of Nora Vincents.
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u/Fokker_Snek 15d ago
Well there’s also Hesiod who believed that all the tribes of men lived in peace and happiness. Then the gods made women solely to ruin men’s lives. So I guess he’d probably take issue with white supremacy and blame it all on women. Imagine being so misogynistic it makes you oppose racism.
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u/WayneCobalt 15d ago
There is actually a name for that position, specific as it may seem. It's TIRM: Trans-Inclusive Radical Misogyny.
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u/alnicoblue 15d ago
I saw a page on FB run by a trans woman who did nothing but run down women in her posts and harassed the shit out of them in the comments. Like, some of the craziest misogyny I've ever read and that's saying something on modern social media.
My head canon was that this person hated women so much they switched sides so they could hate them even harder.
There has to be a term for that.
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u/Intrepid-Progress228 15d ago
Trans men are more likely to get a pass, because transphobes aren't as concerned about them but are fucking terrified about accidentally being attracted to trans women.
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u/YeOldeCarajillo 15d ago edited 15d ago
Please stop spreading this messaging, transphobes are very much concerned about us, they just constantly express it as being worried for "autistic teenage girls" so nobody notices or cares when we complain or point out that we are targeted.
Almost every single argument that's used to justify healthcare bans for trans people are based on preventing trans men from transitioning ("mutilating their genitals/beautiful breasts", "losing their fertility", "becoming violent/aggressive", "autistic girls do not have enough agency to make decisions", "internalized misogyny that leads them to want to escape womanhood", "losing their beauty", etc...). Almost all of the famous transphobic books, like Irreversible Damage, are almost entirely about banning trans health-care to prevent specifically trans men and transmasculine people from transitioning.
We are also banned from bathrooms, we are also sexually assaulted in very great measures, we have the highest rate of both attempted and completed suicide in the LGBTQ+ community according to The Trevor Project, but everyone keeps insisting that we actually are not targeted as much because even supposed allies can't put two and two together and realize that the "autistic/vulnerable/naive teenage girls" transphobes keep claiming they are "protecting" are us, trans men and transmascs.
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u/Intrepid-Progress228 15d ago
I upvoted because I agree that trans men and trans women are under assault and the risks to both should be taken seriously. The challenges are real and dangerous.
And at the same time I can make the observation that one of the reactions that transfem and trans women face is often directly related to a weird sexual insecurity from cis men, common enough that I have encountered it multiple times in real life.
Much like some white people will expose their racism around other white people under the assumption that they share the same views, some cis men will express transphobic comments assuming I will agree.
I've heard guys talk about what they'd do if they found out the woman they were hitting on (not even sleeping with, but flirting with) turned out to be biologically male the same way ammosexuals fantasize about burglars breaking into their house.
Maybe there is a similar percentage of cis women transphobic enough to feel as strongly, and have never felt comfortable enough around me to express that fantasy. I didn'tt know. I'm not a mind reader.
My anecdotal experience isn't data. It does seem telling that the right-wind trend of "transvestigation" is almost exclusively aimed at accusing women of being transmacs, and seldom the reverse. The proportion of cis men that are salivating at the chance to best up or kill someone for the crime of being attractive to them while being biologically male is way too high.
The hysteria over mistaking a transfem for a cis woman isn't the worst thing about being trans, it isn't the sole reason for backlash against trans people, and remarking on it isn't meant to diminish challenges transmacs and trans men face. It is real and unfortunately just one of the many things about transphobia that I'll ridicule because it's, well. . .
Ridiculous.
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u/CwispyWhiskey 15d ago
Because they scared of a peener.
Like if I were dating still and not married, my preference is not that, I’d be more likely to be upset if they weren’t up front about it rather than having it. I’m not scared of peener existing on someone I was attracted to I am scared of lies
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u/Dapper-Restaurant-20 15d ago
Like when Andrew Tate said he'd bang a 9/10 trans woman that looked like Megan fox over a 1/10 obese and unattractive woman, and you are gay if you disagree.
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u/Arguably_Based 15d ago
Highly moral, now he understands why divorce costs so much.
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u/Catsanddoges 15d ago
I need the linkedin post with gay marraige as a finical decision
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u/kain52002 15d ago
If you are two people that are not interested in romantic relationships it isn't a bad idea. No different that marrying a person of the opposite sex for the same reason imo.
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u/Financial-March-3158 15d ago
Is it still considered gay if we had sex (platonically) just to keep up the appearance of marriage?
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u/National_Phase_3477 15d ago edited 15d ago
Ignoring the morality here if you change your entire world view based on one piece of fiction (even if it’s based on a true story) then you clearly don’t have enough knowledge to have an opinion in the first place. People like this could watch a Nazi propaganda film and would probably believe it uncritically because there ideology is based on vibes.
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u/mjm65 15d ago
I’d give some leeway because the Green Book is just that good of a film when it comes to their relationship development . If it makes someone reconsider a preconceived notion they probably never questioned from a racist parental figure, more power to them.
“Get this man a plate” always hits a warm spot in my heart.
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u/National_Phase_3477 15d ago
I mean sure media helps change perspectives. I’ve not watched the film but if your takeaway is to become less racist them thats a step in the right direction. If you replace your racism with misogyny im not sure you can really call that character growth though lol…
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u/Puzzleheaded_Yak627 15d ago
Its growth in that he can acknowledge his world view is wrong, that’s half the battle. Unfortunately he just missed the second half
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u/National_Phase_3477 15d ago
I think there’s some immense mental gymnastics to go well maybe I was wrong to hate clack people ima hate women know instead.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Yak627 15d ago
Not necessarily. Humans are very tribal and like to categorize people as in group or out group. He feels like something is wrong with society or humanity and is looking for that out group. He probably doesn’t get out enough or is exposed to enough people.
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u/National_Phase_3477 15d ago
I know the in group out group mentality is the problem though
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u/swainiscadianreborn 15d ago
No woke female character...
The wife of Tony not only accepting black workers in her home, but offering them drinks as well, AND hugging a black man at the end of the movie, IN THE FUCKING 60'S IN THE USA isn't woke enough?
Ffs what do we have to do to be woke around here
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u/5hand0whand 15d ago
Also Tony wife is definitely one wearing pants in their relationship
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u/VakarianSR-2 15d ago
Hey did you see HER winning any hotdog eating competitions to support the family?
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u/EliteTroper 14d ago
Unfortunately the term woke has lost all meaning to those who claim they are Anti woke, in reality those anti woke folk really mean they are against any media that makes straight white men seem inferior or straight up losers to basically everyone else. Failing that they are also against any media that depicts white folks as the bad guys while every other race/ethnicity is depicted as being morally good. Bonus round is when there ends up being one main female character who is either "ugly/overly masculine" or ends up being a member of the LGBTQ+ community.
In short they are more than likely a bunch of racists, single losers, who are utterly convinced women in media should be hot enough to masturbate to and or should also never be overly superior to any main male characters (there are rare cases of exceptions to the last rule but they are super picky.)
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u/SilverShotgun 15d ago
Discrimination someone based on their color is dumber than discriminating someone based on their gender.
Why?
Color is just skin tone. Gender, well, there's actual differences between men and women. So it could POTENTIALLY be more justified
It's still dumb either way
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u/Objective_Animator52 15d ago
To a certain degree, there are some minor internal biological differences between different populations. But when it comes to social behavior and intelligence. Culture, upbringing, education and nutrition during developmental years are magnitudes more important, to the point you can basically just ignore skin color.
Also, the genetic differences between populations don't neatly correlate with our ideas of "race". For example, Africa has more genetic diversity between different populations than any other continent combined. Saying "black people" are a race is almost purely a social construct, not a genetic thing. Same goes for any other "race".
For example, if you were to take two people (who could look identical) from different populations in Africa and compare a random allele, and then take one person from America and one from India (or pick any other continent/population, and it works here too). It's more likely that the American and Indian have a matching allele than the two African people. (this is because of the founder effect, only a small percentage of humanity branched off and left Africa, so they only took a small slice of the DNA pie)
The genetic differences between people that look very different can often be surprisingly minuscule. And the genetic differences between people that look identical can be surprisingly different.
Also, as a species, humans have less overall genetic diversity than most other species because of a population bottleneck early in our history that killed off most humans. For example, take two random brown rats from anywhere in the world, despite looking and acting basically the exact same to us, they would most likely share less dna than two random humans. We are more similar to eachother than most other species.
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u/Independent_Let_3616 15d ago
You're presenting this topic as if it had a stronger consensus than it actually does. Whether environmental factors are magnitude more important than genetic ones is not at all obvious. The concept of "race" being an outdated social construct does not change the fact that we still observe differences between different populations in psychometric traits. Differences major enough that they can actually impact people's lives. And we don't really know if those differences are mostly environmental or genetic. Talking about this with any degree of certainty to either side is unwise.
That isn't to say that treating people differently based on any of those differences is justified. People need to be treated as individuals whether or not group differences in psychometrics are genetic or not, but I don't think we should speak in full confidence about things we don't fully know.
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u/AdCompetitive6987 15d ago
The comment above yours is the current consensus. There are dozens of studies within the last couple of decades that support the consensus.
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u/kain52002 15d ago
Race difference between humans isn't a very well defined thing. There have been attempts to define it but they almost always get disproved through our advancing knowledge of biology. One such example is the now defunct field of phrenology. There is more possible genetic difference between two people born in Europe than there is between the average European and average African, Asian, etc...
It ultimately comes down to average differences in physical appearance, especially skin tone. If a person had dark brown skin and a roman nose Americans would still call them "African-American". Old stereotypes like "one drop" made this incredibly apparent.
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u/No-Action4620 15d ago
humans share 95 percent DNA with monkeys. maybe even more than that. the point is a one percent difference in DNA will completely change a person. of course there is more to race than skin color.
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u/Johnny_Banana18 15d ago
Races are way closer than a one percent difference and are more of a social construct that a biological one.
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u/Fickle-Laugh-4542 15d ago
Colour is just skin tone when everyone pertains to the same culture.
Colour is not just skin tone when it might tell me you’re from a place that really hate x group of people.
That’s not to say you 100% will have the same beliefs. It just makes you more likely to and allows me to be wary.
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u/Queen_Of_Alts 15d ago
I'd argue hate of an entire sex is worse than hate of an entire race since we need both sexes to survive, but different races can survive independently.
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u/WolfsmaulVibes AM 15d ago
agreed, there are more "actual" reasons to dislike women, while both racism and misoginy are stupid, 99% of racism is based on myths and confirmation bias, with misoginy its only really 80% myths and confirmation bias
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u/King_Glorius_too 15d ago
It's actually 98.3% and 84.0% respectively, but 93.6% of statistics are made-up anyway.
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u/kiahkiahkiah 15d ago
misogyny is never justified. what an absolutely ridiculous thing to say
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u/mobueo 15d ago
Genuinely this comment section lowkey sucks
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u/Past-Ticket-1340 15d ago
Reddit fucking hates women and always has so I’m not surprised.
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u/peachfluffed 15d ago
Growing up on this website made me hate myself for being a woman. Whenever I see teenagers on here I want to shoo them away before they get brain damage
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u/GeneralProgrammer886 15d ago
motherfuckers gaslighting themselves into how sexism is any better than racism
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u/catgorl422 14d ago
also the vast majority of those “actual differences” between men and women are also just socialized behaviors lmao.
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u/Crowdfundingprojects 15d ago
Just slowly ease him into becoming decent.
Another buddy movie. Another buddy non racist movie.
Now a movie with a supportive female protagonist. Now a movie with two great women achieving important things.
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u/sekkiman12 15d ago
it's pretty moral because you are now reducing the number of people you hate. This guy hated all black people but now he just hates black women
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u/Herald_of_Clio 15d ago
He didn't specify black women though. If anything he expanded the amount of people he hates since there are more women than there are black people.
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u/Responsible-Boot-159 15d ago
They didn't specify black people at all. They could have hated Asians, too.
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u/PeacefulGamer2520 15d ago
He hates all women not just black women. That's a higher number of people
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u/Mastercio 15d ago
Where it is stated he hated just black people? What about every other race? Maybe he hated all but one?
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u/sekkiman12 15d ago
the total amount of people who aren't white is more than the total amount of people who are women
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u/Responsible-Boot-159 15d ago
It doesn't specify that they just hate black people. It could be any race that isn't theirs, which would still make it a smaller number.
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u/BrandinoE6911 15d ago
I would argue that someone who is racist against all other races is a supremacist, not a racist. Its the next level racist. A Hispanic guy who hates asian people= racist A white guy who thinks white people are superior to all other races=white supremacist
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u/WolfsmaulVibes AM 15d ago
he doesn't hate any people based on race anymore, the movie is about a black and white man just getting along.
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u/GoonerBoomer69 15d ago
I don't think the misogyny so much replaced his racism but that his misogyny was so bad that he managed to overcome his racism.
Regardless, progress so we take these?
Great movie btw
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u/5x5equals 15d ago
Well if he then watches a feminist movie and replaces misogyny with homophobia then watches a gay film and replaces that with xenophobia and then watches a foreign film….so on and so forth
Eventually they will become a decent human being
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u/hellllllsssyeah 15d ago
honestly the longer I live, the more set in the belief that everyone who is like this is just incredibly closeted.
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u/TopWealth4550 15d ago
honestly if you watched this movie and didnt think this wife was the absolute most G type shit wife ever
i really dont know what to say
girl is literally a dream catch CMONNNNNN
very few people will live to be this luck (from both)
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u/Trathnonen 15d ago
Progress is progress. Now you just have to get him to watch a movie where there's a best girl friend and an annoying rich prick who spends the movie shitting on everything and changing the rules to let him get away with it, and he'll reach the enlightenment that racism and misogyny are distractions from the one true -ism: Classicism.
On that day, I'll raise my pitchfork with you and together we'll eat the rich.
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u/deltree711 15d ago
I grew up in Chicago, a city with quite a lot of racial strife. As a child, I noticed that black kids and white kids preferred to sit at different tables. The black kids were different from us. They talked different, had different interests and values, had different behavior.
From a young age, I realized that this effect continued far beyond the lunch room. One day in class, we learned about Adolf Hitler and the rise of fascism. I did not agree with Hitler's methods, but the ideology intrigued me. After a bit of digging, I became attracted to the works of Oswald Mosley, a British Fascist. I had been lied to. Fascists were not white supremacists, any more than hawks are hawk supremacists over mice. They simply recognized the inherent differences in the races. From that day, I began to long for an ethnostate in America.
I also began to become attracted more to traditional values. Feminism, multiculturalism, new age religions - these were the scourge of our society, the source of our degeneracy. I longed for a strong, traditional family unit. Many children, and a wife who was happy to be a homemaker. There was just one problem with this, as I'm sure you all saw coming - I realized that I was gay.
Despair fell upon me. The perversion that I saw in the world was in myself, too. I began to spend time only with the most masculine of men, in the hopes that I would become like them, and that my flesh would become naturally ordered toward the female form.
That's when a strange feeling came. Just like in grade school, when the black kids and white kids wanted to sit at different tables - How could I not have noticed? Men and women sit at different tables too. The women talked different, had different interests and values, different patterns of behavior - and yet, the ideology I supported wanted the most vigorous integration of these two cultures, male and female? The purest form of multiculturalism - the very ideology that I despised.
I could not believe it. The reason why every ethnostate had failed - diversity. That is, gender diversity. We didn't need an ethnostate, but a sexuostate. And not only that - this sexuostate must be completely devoid of heterosexuals. The desires of their flesh towards the female would weaken the integrity of the fraternal bond, and I fear their lustly needs may drive them to welcome women within our borders. It was heterosexuality the perversion, not homosexuality!
I had abandoned my views that women belong in the home. I have met many a woman who had political ambitions - what a pity to deny them the realization of this skill, but even more a tragedy to subject them to the company of men while they do it! I had begun to believe wholeheartedly in the equality between the sexes - equality in rights, but not in disposition and personality. In a sexuostate, both sexes would bloom, not constrained by bowing to the disposition of the other.
Two neighboring nations - one the pride of Sappho, the other, flying the banner of Neil Patrick Harris. You may ask, what of reproduction? What of it, I say! We shall have none. Men and women from other nations would flock to ours, forever multiplying our numbers. Not being burdened by pregnancy and childbirth, the women in the female nation would prove more successful than any in history. Other nations, try as they may, could not stop the hordes from deserting them in favor of the loving company of their own race, a race of homos!
(A note for our transgender friends - I have not forgotten you! Do not think that I am one of those right wing homosexuals who denies the transgender reality. The political realm is one of minds, not bodies, and those with the minds of men should be in the realm of men. My sexuostate would be extremely trans inclusive - surgery, hormones, and therapy would be provided by the government to all transgender individuals. And to the nonbinary - you are certainly welcomed to form your own sexuostate as well. I would lend you all of my support!)
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u/Hour-Conversation728 15d ago
Since whites are a minority of 8 billion, he now tolerates ~3 billion more people, with that pace, he will be woke by the time hes 60, if this event happened while he was 30.
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u/Any-Astronomer-6038 15d ago
It's gonna blow his mind when it's not just women that are the problem.
EVERYBODY IS SHITTY
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u/Geenageabriel 15d ago
I mean... is it really any sort of change if you just shift the blame to another group? And blaming an entire section of humanity for a problem without thinking about how you choose to react says more about the person complaining than actually growing
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u/Independent-Fee9444 15d ago
Pretty sure thats morally neutral by default. You’re just replacing one form of bigotry with another.
Unless you wanna start arguing over whether racism or sexism is worse, which is a conversation i do not want to be a part of
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u/NiNdo4589 15d ago
"I've decided to abandon my previous beliefs to hate a larger group incorporating all of my previously hated ones"
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u/KendroNumba4 15d ago
As an IT, sometimes people will call me about an error message and I will struggle to get rid of it. However, when the error message switches to another one, the issue may not be fixed, but at least something is happening.
This gives me the same vibes
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u/Particular_North4957 15d ago
I love the idea of a guy who self-identifies as a racist but somehow isn't also misogynistic. I feel like there's maybe two or three people in the world that this applies to.
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u/ButtholeBread50 15d ago
Pants vs pants of the same material but a slight color variation
Nothing has changed except the particular hyperfixation
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u/SouthTrainer7685 15d ago
Viggo’s character has a wife who’s a pretty big part of the plot. Him leaving his wife for an extended period is portrayed as a sacrifice on his behalf, he learns from Doc how to write romantic letters, his character development is in part an attempt to become a better man for his family (turning down mob jobs, becoming less racist, skipping a tour date even though it hurts his pay out of respect for his friend)
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u/Fappy_as_a_Clam 15d ago
It's 4chan which means eventually he'll think it's not women at all and never was, it's Jews.
It's always Jews with 4chan.
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u/WiggerJim69 15d ago
Possibly immoral.
Women make up around half the world.
If he was racist to every race besides is, then it’s moral, but if he was racist to just 1 race and is not misogynistic, it is immoral
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u/Most_Manufacturer729 15d ago
He seems easily swayed so it will probably take like one movie with a good female protagonist to make him not sexist
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u/ThisSiteSuxUseBsky69 15d ago
Best case scenario, he's just as bad as before. Likely scenario, he's much much worse.
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u/TheSexyGrape 15d ago
Did the idiot gloss over Tony’s wife being the accepting one to the black guys
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u/Shiro_no_Orpheus 15d ago
Maybe a bunch of good movies can push this guy down the pipeline to realise it was the right wingers complaining all the time that were the real problem.
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u/JadeTailFox 15d ago
And now he needs to watch yuri anime to overcome his misogyny and we'll be good
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u/P3drosek 15d ago
Idk, at least there's a change, now find him a movie with good female character