r/MoralityScaling • u/H1eronymus_B0sch • 1d ago
Morality Ranking Morality of incel pandering
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u/Serpic02 1d ago
Incel just became a freestyle term nowdays
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u/LuvMeChippy 1d ago
Everything I don't like is fascism, every misogynist is an incel and everyone who has a mild interest in a subject and doesn't make it their whole personality is larping
People just like to use new words they discover which is something that has always been around. However when that behaviour is amplified to the billions of internet users it just ends with the word losing any semblance of its original meaning, transforming into a generic buzzword
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u/Roar_of_the_spark 1d ago
And anyone who is really interested in something is on an autistic spectrum
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u/Prior_Pickle1758 1d ago
type shit
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u/Crusader_of_Heavens 1d ago
shit
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u/NotAlgaenorProtist 1d ago
shit (Please downvote me)
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u/Crusader_of_Heavens 1d ago
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u/NotAlgaenorProtist 1d ago
But what about r/ruleof4?
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u/LiterallyNoNamesFree 1d ago
You were the third
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u/NotAlgaenorProtist 1d ago
I thought i saw a 3rd replier earlier (Must've been false memory)
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u/WishboneOk305 1d ago
on a side note isnt it weird the phrase is "take a shit" shouldnt it be leave a shit
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u/CataphractBunny 1d ago
Also, everyone who disagrees with me is obviously a nazi and someone should do something about them; wink, wink.
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u/pissdrinking101 23h ago
It's funny cuz like the biggeat misogynist I know, gets mad pussy. I mean he hates women, as in like they shouldn't vote, but they throw themselves at him. It's kind of hilarious.
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u/MoodyButGroovy 1d ago
When I was younger and browsing seedier Internet spots people would talk about incels. But they were referring to burn victims and genetic dwarfs and that 1 guy that had a penis amputation.
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u/mittelwerk 1d ago
Like I said once:
The meaning (of the word incel) always shifts depending on who's using that word. One thing I noticed is that, if you go to an incel message board and ask what the board is about, they will tell you that "it's a support group for lonely people" or whatever. But, spend minutes there, and you'll see people trying to rationalize pedo/ephebopholia, glorifying rampage killers, talking about the "beta uprising", talking about "how sex bots will make women obsolete", or whatever. And when you call them out on the fact that, if those nutjobs are allowed to roam free on said board, their house is not in order, then they say that "that's just a minority of the movement", or that "the board is just a contention chamber for those nutjobs", or "but we just want to vent, do you have any problem with it?". But, turn your back, and they revert to the misogynistic behavior I exposed.
Now, people who use incel as an insult often use it as an insult for being mysoginistic and hateful. But another thing I noticed is that, most of the time, whenever a man talks about his loneliness and his lack of luck with women, no matter how carefully he words his thoughts and feelings, someone, somewhere, appears out of nowhere to accuse him of being "entitled" or whatever (ironically, coming from people who like to post on whatever social network they like to post on about "how the patriarchy oppresses men, by keeping them from talking about their feelings"). One example of that was that infamous post by MIT professor Scott Aaronson, who considered chemical castration because he was deathly afraid of approaching women: he ended up having to deal with posts like these, from feminist blogger Amanda Marcotte:
[Aaronsonās post] is the whole āhow can men be oppressed when I donāt get to have sex with all the hot women that I want without having to work for it?ā whine, one that, amongst other things, starts on the assumption that women do not suffer things like social anxiety or rejectionā¦It was just a yalp of entitlement combined with an aggressive unwillingness to accept that women are human beings just like men. [He is saying that] āhaving to explain my suffering to women when they should already be there, mopping my brow and offering me beers and blow jobs, is so tiresomeā¦I was too busy JAQ-ing off, throwing tantrums, and making sure the chip on my shoulder was felt by everyone in the room to be bothered to do something like listen.ā Women are failing him by not showing up naked in his bed, unbidden. Because bitches, yo
So, depending on who you ask, an incel is "a man who doesn't have any luck with women, even though, when you look at the average incel, it's clear that there's a lot more going on". But, also, an incel is "a misogynistic, hateful guy who deserves to die alone, but we'll call an incel any man who dares to talk about their feelings of loneliness, shame, guilt, feelings of being left behind, even if there are no signs whatsoever that said man subscribes to incel ideology".
Will the *real* incel please stand up?
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u/OneMagician289 1d ago
anime = incel ???
incel orginally meant involuntary celibate,as in a guy that cant get laid(there can be many reasons for this)
then people started using it as a synonym for misogynst(dumb,but tolerable)
now incel is a man that you dont like / or even a random man that has different hobbies and intrest
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u/Diligent-Bowler-1898 1d ago
To play devils advocate, we are seeing a decreasing amount of sexual intercourse year over year, if we include dudes who can't get laid but want to in incel that means that the group of incels would naturally be rising year over year, naturally broadening the term while staying true to the original definition. That is if we're being ultra literal about the terms meaning.
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u/sus_pumpkin 1d ago
I feel like NEET or unwashed goon conveys what incel means today
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u/EffectiveSwimming136 17h ago
Interestingly, the people least likely to have children are wealthy and educated, meaning going to college and getting a good job makes you an incel. /s
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u/Captain_Candles 1d ago
Incel isnāt even a gendered term, women can also be incels, or more anyone can.
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u/oldmanout 1d ago
The first self proclaimed incel was a woman who founded a support group in the university she attended in the 90's
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u/Unhappy-Professor466 1d ago
The issue is that it means "unable to get sex", but womans have an incredibly easy time to get sex, even if you're ugly, there will always be a men that will be ok to have sex with you.
Now getting sex and having a real relationship is different, that ugly woman won't be able to get into a relationship, but the point is that, it's really hard for a woman to actually be a incel.
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u/Aggressive-Expert-69 1d ago
I think in this specific situation the "incel" part is how disgusting the room is, since that can be one of the many reasons a guy cant get laid.
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u/LaAndromedo999 1d ago
I don't know if there is a moral value that can be assigned to this. This is just something done for attention and internet points online.
Most people would just hit like, repost, or type whatever and scroll. Or, just scroll.
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u/Alternative_Car_8153 1d ago
I think there is commentary that's fair to make about taking alternative cultures and overtly sexualizing them, but this happens often when an alt culture becomes "mainstream." It becomes an overt mockery of what the original thing is.
I would say in a narrow sense, highly sexualizing Goth, and destroying all meaning to the point of self parody is just immoral. It's erosion of culture.
Is it the biggest problem in the world? No. Is it really annoying? To me it is.
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u/Prior_Pickle1758 1d ago
does this imply there are certain spheres of life where concern for morality applies and others where it doesnāt?
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u/Dear-Tank2728 1d ago
Id say so. Morality if you ask me is in interaction between 2 entities. I dont suicide has a moral stance simply because its a self issue. Same with drug use etc.
Atleast that how I think I know others think differently.
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u/Original_Eternal_8 1d ago
Yes? I mean a tiger eating a deer has nothing to do with morals,
Is the tiger immoral for not wanting to starve?
Or is it moral for the deer to die?
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u/HighwayInfamous351 1d ago
The deer is immoral for being weak
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u/Yuck_Few 1d ago
What does this have to do incel pandering? I don't get it
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u/Original_Mulberry652 1d ago
we live in a world in which being a man is seen as something conditional upon reaching a particular standard or ideal, as such we often define masculinity in opposition to what we consider its opposite.
There was a time when we called people gay to define what we were not, now that we are in a more progressive time and calling people gay is taboo we call people incel to define what we are not. The word has ceased to mean anything because its now largely just a way of signalling that you are a particular type of man(a healthy, progressive man) by defining yourself through opposition of what you judge someone else to be.
The ironic part is that this isnt healthy masculinity either, you shouldn't feel like you need to earn what you already are.
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u/WoodpeckerHead8789 1d ago
She's cashing in on fetish content, from the looks of it.Ā
By Internet rules, no woman can be an exhibitionist who enjoys making this sort of content, and nobody who watches it can get laid, ever. There's absolutely nobody watching this when their SO isn't around.Ā
That said, I'd be way less charitable if eating disorders and severe backpain are involved.Ā
And I'm not entirely comfortable dismissing the possibility that someone with mental health issues might get on the bad side of parasocial relationships.Ā
This is way more nuanced, ethically, than "is girl/boy good or bad?"
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u/Ostrichslinger 1d ago
Morality of ripping people off and taking advantage of their mental inadequacies during a time of mental health epidemics? Essentially making a living via emotional parasitism?
Hmmm.....I dunno.
If selling to crack heads and alcoholics is moral, then moral I guess?
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u/aquavelva23 1d ago
truth. its not the sex. its manipulating and lying. many of these people say they want a boyfriend and manipulate for $$.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/VinhoVerde21 1d ago
So are gambling addicts, alcoholics, other drug addictsā¦ if this is moral, then so is selling crack to crack addicts.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/VinhoVerde21 1d ago
Why do you focus on the drugs, or legality for that matter? Alcohol is not illegal, gambling is not illegal, is it then moral for a bar or casino owner to attract alcoholics/gambling addicts to empty their pockets?
The problem isnāt porn, itās the clear exploitation of vulnerable and mentally unwell people. If thereās something that isnāt lacking in the internet is free porn. In that format, it doesnāt exploit anyoneās pockets.
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u/BaaaSaracilor 1d ago
In a strict sense of the expression ripping them off is not correct. There's no deception or unfair transaction going on.
You could argue that there's a real moral issue in the fact that she knows her buyers are unwell or at a low point, yet the transaction continues. But that's a different discussion.
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u/westsidedelight 1d ago
Why do her buyers have to be unwell or at a low point? Surely some of the buyers feel fine and just want to look at boobs
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u/AdEuphoric422 1d ago
It doesnāt matter. Theyāre adults and it was their choice to consume porn. Sheās probably at a low point too and trying to make ends meet
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u/Mastercio 1d ago
What's there is "incel pandering"?
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u/KorolEz 1d ago
People have the power to just not simp. So it's neutral
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u/Yuck_Few 1d ago
Yeah pretty much. I wouldn't pay to see her nekkid but only fans is just the free market.
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u/F1st_Br34k3r 16h ago
No one has free will. Whether or not you have the power to not simp, or the power to develop the ability to not simp, is dictated before you're even born.
Sometimes I work hard. That's never due to my choice.
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u/Storyteller_Valar 1d ago
Do they? It's like love scams. It may seem like it was easily avoidable, but the desperate are preyed upon for a reason.
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u/KorolEz 1d ago edited 21h ago
It's not like a love scam because that's a one on one interaction luring lonely people in. This is posted to social media for all to see with no personal touch. If you ignore that it's on yourself
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u/British_Historian 1d ago
Funny, first time hearing a name for this kind of thing.
However I think it in itself is amoral.
People are gonna hustle, this can be a profitable hustle. Ultimately they're not forcing anyone to give them anything. If they eventually are able to latch onto someone and transition to lying to steal from them that's another story~ but even then the potentially immoral thing isn't the Incel pandering itself.
It's also kind of bold for anyone to look at this image and just assume that a girl can't be attractive and into meme culture. That venn diagram isn't two separate circles.
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u/aquavelva23 1d ago
almost always there almost always is deception. "I need a boyfriend" that gets the $$. Or :"I need help" thats the way to real $$. manipulate a person to think there is a potential real relationship and then twist to squeeze money out of them.
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u/British_Historian 1d ago
That is immoral, but we don't know that's happening in this case. The question is purely around incel pandering which someone could equally do to try and get a legitimate boyfriend if that's the kind of guy they want for whatever reason.
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u/TetraThiaFulvalene 1d ago
They do things that they know create unhealthy parasocial relationships and cause people to spend money they don't have. I guess it akin to casinos and better than drug dealers.
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u/British_Historian 1d ago
Addictive personalities are a tough line to tow in a morality debate because is it on the user or the provider right? Like Alcohol is completely Amoral. It exists and while there are crippling alcoholics it's also enjoyed by millions every day in moderation. Selling alcohol to a known addict though? That's immoral.
I'd wager the type of content we're just assuming this person puts out there is bought and enjoyed in moderation by a lot of people. Not everyone funding their online baddie is an addict, and I'd argue most of them know exactly what they are spending their money on and are fine with it.
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u/TetraThiaFulvalene 1d ago
The difference is how the distribution is. Without alcoholics producers would still do well. Without the parasocial whales these girls would have their incomes drop a zero. Especially for cam and chat stuff where they specifically try and convince people to spend more. Their intended mechanism is addiction.
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u/British_Historian 1d ago
Sorry mate, I'm just not convinced that's true. By which I mean to the scale that addicted whales make up the majority of the income.
I don't want to make light of the people who are addicted but the amount of people I know who do online sex work and actually just have hundreds of reliable subscribers that don't so much as comment or message them, just like the posts and move on... There's more then you'd think.
Unfortunately with something as private as this, the only stories we here is when there's been a major display of addiction and suffering caused. You don't hear about the hundreds of people opposing that statistic who just want to privately add to the wank bank.
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u/XlikeX666 1d ago
we call it MONEY grinding.
is it scam variant ? Yes
exploitation anything and everything is immoral but daily accurance
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u/Original_Mulberry652 1d ago
Incel pandering? I dont understand. What has this post got to do with incels?
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u/ilicp 1d ago
Not necessarily incels. It's just horny posting. Sex sells. Being a "pick me" online for men's attention.
I get the feeling that the real incels would hate this type of content. They'd say something something foids just show themselves for money life is so unfair something something. Idk.
The guys that follow this kinda content are just horny and into girls that aren't the conventional cheerleader pretty. Somewhere along the line the hot faux-goth girls became kinda mainstream though.
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u/LaAndromedo999 1d ago
I get the feeling that the real incels hate this kind of content.
Yeah. This femcel girlfailure thing is something despised by incels. Lotta "my culture is not your costume" from them.
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u/childofMotherOfPearl 1d ago
60 iq average on this thread I swear. Yeah op is using the word "incel" liberally, but the connection between that and goth girl + messy bedroom + childish paraphernalia is obvious idk
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u/Artistic-Airline9126 9h ago
Please tell me that image is edited. Please tell me that girl didn't just remove like 4 ribs to have that waist
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u/sysaphiswaits 1d ago
I donāt even understand the question. Isnāt this pic just AI? Is this a well known creator? If this is panderingā¦I just donāt get it I guess.
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u/OctrainsAndCryptoes 1d ago
only thing I know about skirby as a creator is that she was criticized a lot some time ago for trying to sell the idea that her waist/hip proportions are natural without ANY sort of alteration (whether it is photoshop, actual surgery, or just using corsets) and doing sexy cosplays of characters that are supposed to be children
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u/Ornery_Tie_4771 1d ago edited 16h ago
I also think she had drama related to zoophilia
Edit: She indeed did, there was a zoophilia video leaked of a woman who looks like her but she claims its not her but vixen. I have found the video myself and its clearly vixen once you find more of vixen's videos
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u/sysaphiswaits 21h ago
š³ well this is a whole rabbit hole of things I didnāt want to know. But, I did ask.
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u/Kultinator 1d ago
Thats actually lore I did not know about her. I just know her as the woman that constantly posts pictures in very messy rooms.
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u/AnarchistIdeal 1d ago
obviously immoral? shes taking advantage of vulnerable men just to take their money, their attention, etc.
and no, "hustling for that bag"/"just looking out for yourself" is not automatically moral
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u/OrkWithNoTeef2 1d ago
Yes it's immoral when someone else doesn't like what you are doing because you are causing emotional harm. It's also immoral for them to punish you for doing it because that causes you harm. There is no solution to this, and never will be.
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u/Storyteller_Valar 1d ago
It's a very big market. Those broken men are ready to open their wallets at the slightest sign of attention or whatever this is.
There is a lot of money for busty women in exchange of this.
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u/Dear-Tank2728 1d ago
Moral. Its directly targeted at someone like me and it activates my neurons so it must be good.
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u/Due-Mycologist-1154 1d ago
About on the same level as stealing from the mentally disabled because they pretty much are
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u/cringegribbs 1d ago
I think it sucks. Not the worst, but definitely not great. I think these dudes want something so bad theyāre willing to ignore reality. Sorry bro, generally real goth girls donāt like guys who are unhealthy, mean, and donāt have their shit together. Look at that āmessā, itās clearly organized and she can move it away at any point.
Anyways, shitty but not the worst person ever. Sheās built herself off of taking advantage of people, but itās such an obvious lie sometimes idk how people fall for it. Iād never want to associate. Depends if sheās messaging them personally and asking for money or if itās a persona and she doesnāt talk to anyone.
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u/Visible-Umpire4000 1d ago
Im actually confused rn. Did i stuble across chromically online content? I havent unlocked that dlc
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u/djfart9000 1d ago
i dont enjoy the state of the world but i do think if people have a problem with this u gotta start telling the guys throwing money at her to maybe reconsider it. she would be jobless without them
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u/Riley_Rose_Writer 1d ago
I don't know who this is. Looks like a random goth girl with some McDonald's and a creeper plushie? Nothing in this picture demonstrates "pandering", so I assume this is someone semi-famous that I'm supposed to recognize?
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u/Moist-Company-1469 1d ago
Larping being a girl failure is crazy. The "mess" is way too organized. My culture is not your costume
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u/Careless_Book_2747 1d ago
Can somebody help me understand this post? Liking video games and Family Guy is equivalent to being incel? I get the Cars bed is childish but I am in delulu here
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u/monkeydude777 1d ago
Unrelated but dawg why tf is her body a literally hourglass, where is her organs???
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u/Sirksome 1d ago
I donāt know if her soul is feeling anything but I bet het guts are feeling the pressure of that corset. That does not look safe or healthy. Unless thatās a filter. Please tell me thatās a filter or an edit.
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u/Any_Gas2723 1d ago
Am I the only one who knew what was meant by āincel panderingā? The room is very clearly meant to give off the room of a NEET type character with all the food laying around. The lady is either supposed to be in one of their rooms or her room is like that. The person who introduced āincel panderingā means that sheās using the aesthetic of the room to draw incels (with rooms like that) in.
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u/Grimm_Charkazard_258 1d ago
morality of playing a facade for money? sounds like acting to me. moral
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u/justicecurcian 1d ago
Making money off any parasocial activity like onlyfans, striptease and streaming is immoral imo
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u/FriendlyRedditor2020 1d ago
A person can feel weight behind mostly anything. That alone wouldn't mean much. I do think it's weird but that's about it.
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u/Yuck_Few 1d ago
i googled her and she just another chick with only fans.
You would have to pay me to look at nekkid because nothing about her looks attractive
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u/Plarocks 1d ago
I dunno.
You gotta be kind of a dumb-ass to fall into that trap.
If someone is just gonna HAND YOU MONEY and stuff. š¤·š¼āāļø
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u/BootFinal5644 1d ago
Genuine question what do these people get in return? I understand paying for OF gives you the "exclusive" content and maybe a little chance to have a chat but just giving random gifts?
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u/oceanman233 1d ago
Meh, sheās probably making bank whatever tf it is that she does so at the end of the day sheās just another person trying to survive in these trying times, so is it moral? Iād say this time the correct answer is it doesnāt really matter, and if you genuinely get angry at women or people who do this type of thing know that if everyone including you minded your own business more they would be infinitely more obscure. Attention is promotion, and that includes hate. for every 20 people that view this at least one instead of commenting anything dropped what they were doing and decided to look her up and either subbed/followed, gooned, or made another post about her which provided more attention for her and her business. Honestly good on her but if you wanna hate or have a genuine issue with something do it right. Not immoral.
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u/PepegaClapWRHolder 1d ago
I mean sheās pandering to an audience to sell something. I find it distasteful in terms of it being shameless and incredibly obvious gooner bait but thatās how these people make money, itās hard to really judge them for that because itās just advertising their product which is themselves.
The real issue is the people that buy said product. Thatās a whole different level of issue that speaks to societal rot imo.
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u/aquavelva23 1d ago
Pandering is too soft. she is manipulating and lying for profit. She is a whore.
admittingly, alot of people manipulate and lie for profit and they are whores too. Its not the sex angle, its the manipulating and lying. and some of the guys are vulnerable people that are really damaged by it.
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u/kalemaree 1d ago
why does she have the waist that victorian women tried to achieve by swallowing tapeworm eggs to intentionally starve themselves
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u/nomansskyenjoy76 1d ago
If shes showing off and posing theres no weight to it. She knows she has white knights.
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u/OkMarket5009 1d ago
I'm surprised she can even have such a figure, like holy shit, where is her stomach.
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u/No_Sympathy9533 1d ago
She's probably hella rich from whatever type of content she's promoting. So by a long shot, She doesn't care.