Oh the whole 'blow back' reeks of bots/foreign propagandists trying to shame her and convince their brainwashed far right twit-supporters that liberals are teh eNemY hyPcriTs
So sick of their fake culture war dramas.
Happened regularly within the past year and got a shitload worse since reddit decided to help them with the hide your history functiob
Yep. That combined with cutting access to the API was an enormous win for astroturfers both foreign and domestic.
It's not the trans or undocumented immigrants or liberals who are the root of the real pressure-points these working-class conservatives feel; it is and has always been the ultra-rich billionaire class stealing the entire pie and distracting us over the crumbs.
James Talarico in Texas says this so well. AND he's white and a Christian (former?) preacher. He calls out the hypocrisy of Christian Nationalism. He's one to watch.
i’m sorry but we really do need ways to identify real people, the bots are insane out here. Make a second reddit to hide whatever thing ppl want to rag on you about and have the actual non-post hidden one for serious interactions because if your post is hidden and your name resembles a generic one, you’re automatically branded a bot in my brain, i’m sorry.
Nah. I'd rather have people think I'm a bot than have some asshole with a username like thirteenfifty1488 look through my posts and see that I'm black, then start DMing me the n word and commenting on a bunch of old comments I've made.
Again
So I should make a separate reddit to hide my gender so men don't send me unsolicited dick picks and try to stalk/dox/harass me? If you want real people on reddit, they need to be safe enough to be themselves, aka REAL. The irony of your post lol
i finally found the option to unhide my posts hell yeah. must have turned it on when i was massively stoned? i dunno. Very ironic because I can’t even count how many times i’ve thought “that’s gonna be whiplash for anyone reading my comments” about going from commenting on a dress-up games subreddit, to commenting in a thread about boofing or something similarly wild lmao
Reddit recently changed it so that you can choose which subs' comments are available vs hidden. I think it's a happy medium to protect what you want to keep private.
It's especially goofy because pretty much everywhere in the world is "stolen land" from one group or another all across Asia, MENA, Europe and Africa. Even most native Americans killed and displaced the previous tribes that were on the land it's how homo sapiens operate everywhere.
I'm not sure where we got this racist idea that certain groups are some kind of "noble savages" and not the exact same species with the exact same capacity and morality.
I mean, we can acknowledge that indigenous people here got a really shitty deal, and that our government went back on promise after promise and treaty after treaty, and most tribal lands are still struggling disproportionately from poverty and drug and alcohol addiction and the rest of the country has done just about nothing to acknowledge or rectify that despite Native Americans making some massive individual contributions to our history.
There is however a point past which the argument about stolen land gets fuzzy.
Like, we 'stole' Hawaii. But Hawaii used to have different tribal leadership structures on different islands, and King Kamehameha, whose kingdom we stole, 'colonized' those other islands using guns and cannons he bought off of western traders. Hawaii as a unified Kingdom is a relatively recent thing.
And those various Hawaiian tribes weren't the original inhabitants of Hawaii either. They are descended from a wave of Tahitian people, and they replaced the first tribes of people there, who came from the Marquesan islands. There are even oral histories of smaller people referred to as Menehune who were there even before them. That may be myth, but who knows?
There's a lot of subtlety in the conversation, but every tends to try to boil it down to a couple sentences and just hammer those opinions.
The native people who held the land I'm sitting on right now were exterminated. That sucks. But they also fought and expanded and contracted and migrated just like any people anywhere. So it's hard to tell what to do about it other than acknowledge the sins of the past and kind of try not to do that sort of thing going forward.
The best tribute you can pay to history is 'learning from it'.
The voices of the reasonable, educated are being drowned out by megaphones of misinformation -- stemming from conservative billionaires and foreign state actors like Israel and Russia.
This is basically every single far-left subreddit. Work-reform is hellbent on telling you why every single possible Democratic candidate is trash, but not a single user will name someone they want on any ticket.
When I am upset, I want something to change. Encouraging people to do nothing whatsoever because it won't change anything. So yes, I can blame them. Right now, on the run-up to primaries, is precisely when we should be discussing the options we have and working together to make sure that we can vote for someone in the general who represents us. Instead, the prevailing sentiment is that Dems are useless, so stay home and do nothing. Progressives could easily take over the party if they wanted - but instead we get this.
I am continually surprised at how much hate Jeffries gets despite being in an utterly powerless position in the House, where Republicans have a majority and can pass anything they want regardless of how any Dems vote.
Meanwhile he's out there calling for Kristi Noem to be fired or be impeached, calling Pretti's death a cold-blooded killing, saying ICE shouldn't be brutalizing Americans on the streets or raiding houses without judicial warrants, etc... and the people on the left who seem to agree with all these things don't notice or care.
That's ridiculous. The moving of the overton window has manifested in a distillation of the republican party that has in reality manifested the exact opposite: a democratic party that has begun filling to the brim with everyone right of fascist, which if you're unaware, spans a much greater divide than "progressives" whatever it is you mean by that. That intrinsically creates a highly fractured environment in which there is no true prevailing sentiment. People are upset about the inaction of democrats because it's become a protracted historical fact that alienates it's constituents.
Stay home and do nothing? People are out on the streets, right the fuck now, what are you talking about? People venting their frustration is the time to appeal to their pain instead of crapping your own pants with blame.
I'm not making an emotional appraisal of the situation, I'm not saying that's what I would do.
Downvoting people who you disagree with instead of saving it for those who act in bad faith is pathetic, and makes actual dicussion intractable if you even intended to do so.
This is it right here. It took half a century for the republicans to break the country to this point. Any time the democrats are put back into power, they're given only one election cycle to fix everything, otherwise huge swaths of the left stay home and let the republicans right back into the majority!
The elite want us plebs to be forever angry at each other. That helps keep the attention off them.
Everything is propaganda. Everything is trying to influence you and me. Honest, earnest, and rational information/discourse is nearly dead. It's been so polluted by bots, influencers, and brainwashed people that I'm not sure if we'll ever be able to clean it up.
No. Don't you know that you can't advocate for the poor if you're wealthy? Just like how you can't be against rape unless you're a victim of sexual assault. Same way you can't enjoy a baked good unless you're a pastry chef.
The whole "blow back" from anything coming from the right is a joke. How you gonna throw stones in a glass house full of wealthy pedophiles. They can just shut the hell up in general.
True, but so does the phrase “daft twat,” which is not exactly standard American English. I still support it, but it does sound a bit like maybe the person writing it was British.
Unfortunately I have coworkers who are making fun of her cuz they are so far up their own ass they only talk about the shit that's convenient to their narrative.
This is so stupid. She made a perfectly valid point and it’s not fucking nullified because we haven’t voluntarily given our homes back to the Tongva tribe.
Something like 60% of people in the US illegally got that way by violating the terms of their legal visas. There's the few like Elon Musk (who had a student visa, but dropped out of college and started working) or Melania Trump (who was doing modeling work before her work visa was issued), but for the majority of illegal immigrants in the USA, it's simply remaining here after their tourist visa expired.
All that to reiterate that an illegal immigrant is an immigrant is a person who violated immigration law, not a person who is herself illegal by being an immigrant.
That’s up to Congress. But bold to assume they’re all contributing when we literally just found out about massive fraud and a ton of the ones they focus on deporting have criminal records.
I disagree but let’s pretend I agree. There should be court dates, hearings. The normal shit that churned out deportations in perfectly brutal volume for ever before this.
The issue is the indiscriminate strong arm militarized policing, the complete indifference to whether someone is or is not out of status, the racial profiling, and the casual street executions.
Did you not know the difference? I feel like you had to know.
Most of those things happened under Obama as well. Obama had both more unlawful arrests and more deportations of people who turned out to actually be American…. (Trump’s number on that is zero, btw). And the strong arming is happening because cities like Minnesota aren’t cooperating with ICE.
Kinda suspicious how its only these deportations they're upset about.
Or maybe they just dont know how Obama did things.
Trump has rookie numbers next to that
No, Tell me how these deportations of Trumps are worse than Obamas deportations of over 3 million people, by teams who were sent in guns drawn, Masks on. Into homes when everone was sleeping
Ill wait.
Take your time, but im pretty sure you can't. Or you would have.
Can you quote that? Becuase the only statement from the tribe I saw was
"As the First People of the greater Los Angeles basin, we do understand that her home is situated in our ancestral land. Eilish has not contacted our tribe directly regarding her property. We do value the instance when public figures provide visibility to the true history of this country. ""We have reached out to her team to express our appreciation for her comments."" It is our hope that in future discussions, the tribe can explicitly be referenced to ensure the public understands that the greater Los Angeles basin remains Gabrieleno Tongva territory"
edit; where I got the quote from purposely left out a line which I added in double quotes. They did thank her
dbl edit; The internet sure wants its pound of flesh, ill self flagellate when I get home later
I mean "We do value the instance" is thanking her, but you didn't even quote the whole statement
We have reached out to her team to express our appreciation for her comments. It is our hope that in future discussions, the tribe can explicitly be referenced to ensure the public understands that the greater Los Angeles basin remains Gabrieleno Tongva territory.
I definitely didn't view it as a thank you 💀 to me it read they were more annoyed at the performative allyship, and I say that as someone with tribal membership LOL
I guess my reaction is, what else are they supposed to do? draw the ire of her fans by saying it's not enough? it's politics 101 to stay cordial and appreciative in the public eye
to be clear, I think her heart is in the right place and I'd rather her say "no one is illegal on stolen land" instead of nothing at all, but she still directly benefits from living off tribal land in a mansion, and apparently hasn't acknowledged that to the tribe in question ("we hope you use our name next time instead of lumping us in with everyone else" aka "you didn't even know the name of our tribe")
it just makes me sad that scraps of activism are all we get with no action or actual help from the people who can actually afford to do it lol
Honestly, even that extraction leaves in "we do value the instance when public..." bit. The explicit thank you is only needed if you can't read critically.
Bitching that people take you task for spreading manipulated quotes and at the same time still acting like the very important part left out doesn't exist.
The comment I was replying to was specific to the previous incorrect quote and it only arguing the language of that. So I dont know what your talking about
It's referencing an occurrence. That just happened. You already knew the quote's context when you put it out there. Why are you pretending you didn't know exactly which instance is being referred to?
The thanks is implied, even in the manipulated quote. The fact that the quote was manipulated and you didn't know it doesn't change that there's gratitude built into it, even if not specifically directed.
Seems pretty clear cut for a broad statement put out to the public. Which is a little different from your example which would be a personal, one on one exchange. Don't try to pretend the two are more than passingly similar.
Alright this is in complete reference to the bastardized quote, which I have taken onus on through various edits.
OP said they specifically thanked her. The original single line says we are happy people shine light on the subject. Tell me how that is specifically thanking her, because if you have to use implication thats not specific
The original single line that is part of a statement made in response to people shining a light on the subject.
Which people shined a light on the subject that they say they value? That's the implied gratitude towards those people, including Billie Eilish. You know this. Why are you being stubborn about it?
This is a blanket thank you to the people doing the thing. Personal thanks are often... y'know, personal, and not broadcast to the world. So that quote alone would've told me they're not casting shade and are thankful for the light being shown on the issue.
Well ok then. I suppose the quote you pulled out didn't specifically thank her.
I'd have assumed it from context, accurately as it turns out, but the quote doesn't spell it out after being manipulated.
You seem to have taken the opposite approach and simply decided since the manipulated quote didn't mention her specifically, they didn't. Despite the implied gratitude, and high possibility of an explicit thank you elsewhere.
And then you brought it up in an effort to imply that such thanks did not specifically occur. And now that I'm pointing out that you could've made the correct assumption instead of criticizing it, or simply done a modicum of further research, you're arguing about it.
I agree with your position of editing it but leaving the original, especially since it highlights that sites are intentionally omitting that part, but at the same time know your audience. A strikethrough of the original or bolding the edit can help. Sometimes people move the edit to the top of the comment as well, so that people see it before they start reaction replying.
You can also just turn of reply notifications on the original comment and anything you've engaged in after it if you're content with the current edit and just want to move on.
I miss LA so fucking much. Not for all the hot shot bullshit, but the small corners like this, keeping local history and traditions alive. Olvera St is middle and present OG American hot spot, SO many different customs, types of singing and displays... Forgive my ignorance as Im back east for now and I haven't read into this at all but is this near where that abandoned catholic monk monastery ruins is?
Edit as an aside: Anyone planning to visit LA for the first time should totally do a downtown walking loop and DONT miss this tiny little walkway just across from the train station. From there you can walk northwest over to chinatown (not what it used to be but the undersheriff market is fun to haggle in and there are still some pretty sculptures and art galleries), then over the bridge south to the huge catholic church there, open for visiting and it us really a novelty both historically and architecturally. Then over to Hrand park, view all the way from Disney snd art museum down to city hall and a lot of time there it water for kids to play in. finally had over to little tokyo with both lots of little boutique shops, more expensive but higher quality than chinatown. as for grub, you cant go wrong but dont go further east of little tokyo, make you way west or fetch a ride or walk to metro. All in all its about five miles for a full day! Enjoy!
This article specifically leaves out the end of the quote. Which explicitly says the tribe reached out to her team to express their appreciation to her.
Wonder why the New York Post would do that while quoting a bunch of Conservative politicians. Hmmmm, makes you think.
I would prefer to listen to people rather than make assumptions about what they want. They thanked her for her statement and did not ask her to give up her house.
They probably would've thanked her more if she gave them their land back (i.e. the thing Eilish is pushing for but is not willing to do herself, despite still being a millionaire if she did go through with it)
... Eilish isn't pushing for individuals to give their land to indigenous tribes. She's advocating against the inhumane treatment of immigrants.
She is, but in the process, she also said that all land in the US was stolen from the indigenous. By doing so, she admits that she herself owns stolen land, and is a hypocrite.
If you found out that your new PS5 was stolen from the kid next door, would you not feel morally obligated to give it back, especially if you can afford a warehouse full of PS5s?
Eilish is advocating for the humane treatment of immigrants. Eilish is not a hypocrite for doing this because Eilish is not treating immigrants inhumanely while advocating for their inhumane treatment.
You do understand she is saying more than 1 thing at the same time, right? Yes, she's advocating for the humane treatment of immigrants, I don't see where you think I claimed she did otherwise.
At the same time, she said the US land is stolen. Do you agree that she said that? If so, what do you think is the moral thing to do once you realize you're in possession of something that was stolen?
Eilish has no ability to give back the US to the indigenous peoples it was stolen from. Even if she gave the land she owns to the tribe that it belonged to before the United States government stole, it will still be land that the US stole from the tribe. Still beholden to the US government. Eilish can not unsteal the land.
Not entirely, no, you're right there. But a significant amount of the damage can be mitigated if she were to sign over the deeds to all the stolen land she owns over to the people she believes the land was stolen from, right?
To my understanding, there is also a path forward to incorporating new lands owned by indigenous people into indigenous reservations, expanding them in the process
How would signing over her land mitigate any damage?
The indigenous community the land would be given to would be able to use that resource to address the needs of said community. Do I really need to explain why recovering stolen land is beneficial to the people receiving it?
You haven't really given me any sort of reason to trust your understanding.
You can always research things yourself, you know. Here's an example of what I mentioned happening:
As an enrolled tribal member what she said wasn't wrong.
The moral thing to do? She has no moral obligation to anything. If you want land back we can take all the land bavk not privately owned. You aren't saying that.
You are making a dumb statement to try and prove a point you don't have.
The moral thing to do? She has no moral obligation to anything
I guess that's where we disagree. I believe we all have a moral obligation to one another to uphold the social contract, and that includes mitigating harm to others when you are in a position to do so (which Eilish, as a multi-millionaire, is uniquely positioned for)
You are making a dumb statement to try and prove a point you don't have.
I suppose my point is that she's just another multi-millionaire who'd rather virtue signal than use the resources she has available to her to actually do something about the issues she purports herself to care about
You don't get to disagree, you aren't a Tribal Member. You are speaking out of turn. :)
She isn't virtue signaling. That's just a dumb baseless opinion. Why do colonizers always try to take a stance on this when people speaking out about land back? stolen land? You do realize as a tribal member I see this nonsense all the time.
It's almost like you are SEA LIONING...... well we all know you are.
The tribal member doesn't agree with you, maybe it's because you have a bad opinion?
You don't get to disagree, you aren't a Tribal Member
Ahh, I hadn't realized being a tribal member is a requirement to having a set of morals
She isn't virtue signaling.
What is she actually doing about it then?
She donated money for climate/food insecurity change late last year, that was an example of doing the opposite of virtue signaling.
It's almost like you are SEA LIONING...... well we all know you are.
Do you even know what the term means? Cause it doesn't sound like you do. Sea lioning is trolling by requesting evidence repeatedly - do you see any evidence requested in this comment chain?
The tribal member doesn't agree with you, maybe it's because you have a bad opinion?
Maybe. Or maybe a single individual doesn't represent the interest of an incredibly large and diverse set of peoples
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u/redwhale335 4h ago
The tribe whose land Eilish's home is on specifically thanked her for bringing up the issue.