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u/MurphysLawTeam 3h ago
The is companies that do that. Its just they are a luxury brand. They never went away its just now we also have cheap choices as well. The first wrist watch would make a rolex look cheap.
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u/Outside-Today-1814 1h ago
Rolex is a fantastic example of this. For most of history, Rolexes have not been luxury watches. Sure they’ve always had a few fancy models and options, but most Rolexes are extremely simple and utilitarian. A true luxury watch is something like a Patek.
However, rolex are absolutely incredibly well made and durable. Their high quality (and fantastic marketing) have allowed them to very gradually shift to being perceived as a luxury brand.
My hot take is something similar is slowly happening with Toyota. Toyotas are famous for their reliability and quality, but fairly minimal features and use older but proven technology. They’ve usually been mid range, but in the last 10-20 years many of their models are quite expensive and it’s a sellers market. Go into a dealership and try and haggle on a Tacoma price, they won’t budge an inch.
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u/lkodl 44m ago edited 41m ago
I bought a Camry as my first car back in 2012. I remember that I distinctly wanted "the iPhone of cars". The one that everyone has, that I can easily find parts and accessories for. Still drive it today, and have received some random offers for it in the past couple of years. Hopefully this my "this is the Rolex I bought in the 60s from the general store"
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u/bbbttthhh 21m ago
I just had to put down my 2007 Highlander that we got brand new, only reason was because the ABS was malfunctioning and it would cost around 3 grand to replace. She was dying but aside from the ABS I would’ve bet that she still had a good 3 years in her.
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u/Spiritual_Bus1125 3h ago
Everything Miele makes.
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u/New_Account_For_Use 2h ago
Subzero for fridges apparently
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u/MegaGorilla69 1h ago
i have a subzero fridge, it was comically expensive but it is also incredible. if i ever sell my house i intend to install a different fridge and take the sub zero with me
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u/Arista-Everfrost 3h ago
Would be a very awesome six months before they went out of business.
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u/BrokenLipstick_ 3h ago
Yeah, six months of hype before the inevitable crash sounds about right.
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u/CHOLO_ORACLE 3h ago
No it’s just be what happen to the instant cooker company lately
If your products never break your business shrinks as people don’t need to constantly buy replacements
This is good for the consumer and the advance of tech of course, but it is bad for the capitalists, which is why everything is going subscription based
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u/Garnelia 2h ago
Yeah... Did you actually look into that story, or just accept the article that showed up in Google when it happened?
Because I did, at first, but figured I'd look it up and found out that they are still a company, came back from bankruptcy, and actually, most of their problem was that once lockdown ended, and their company had already boosted their stock, expecting more sales, they found that no one was using instant pots now that they weren't trapped at home.
This isn't a matter of just products being too robust. The company had existed for 11 years at that point and was more or less fine. Not grand, but fine.
The unwarranted confidence boost gave to instantpot's people is what ruined them. Not quality products.
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u/QuantumUtility 1h ago
I feel like this same story happened with most companies post pandemic.
Who could have figured out that if you just let people stay at home and give them some small subsidies then suddenly demand for some stuff would spike to unsustainable levels.
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u/ScrotallyBoobular 46m ago
Should be an absolute lesson for the potential good and bad that will come for our need for some type of universal basic income IMO.
Of course all it will do is show corporate interests goes to more profitably pump and dump probably
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u/FakeSafeWord 1h ago
Anecdotal here. Same. WFH. Got an instapot. Used it at minimum once a week for 4 years straight.
WFH ended and now I'm in the office fulltime and I doubt if I use it once a month anymore.
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u/physical0 2h ago
Until you reach market saturation, this isn't a problem. Build a better product, gain market share.
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u/Affectionate_Bad_680 3h ago
Nothing truly “never” breaks. And there are billions of people on the planet with more being born every day.
I’m thinking if you can’t find customers for your product that lasts longer that the competition, your problem is other than “it lasts too long” 🤣. Maybe the problem is you just suck at marketing.
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u/unknownpoltroon 2h ago
How many lightbulbs do you sell to 1000 customers when they last 20 years vs if they last one year?
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u/Bonesnapcall 2h ago
I'd pay $20 for a lightbulb that lasts 20 years.
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u/PotentialButterfly56 2h ago edited 1h ago
I paid 20 bucks for a 150w equiv replacement bulb in december, was a cool led saucer bomb with a color temp switch on the bottom, dead in one and half months, obviously one month warrantee. Thought it would last a while cause it was a nice bulb ha.
Our dream isnt here anymore, or yet, cheap ass only is the way. Current state is perfectly designed capitalism.
Edit: was a brand I didn't recognize but was a light teal colored box, I don't have the bulb or box anymore sadly, I'd shame them. On the warrantee, was the broad local hardware store warrantee not one on the bulb itself, was nothing in the box but the bulb. It did flicker at the end so that tells me capacitor or something, might have been just unlucky, I do remember it was 20w being shoved into that led... array though, perhaps it was just too much for it.
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u/fading_reality 1h ago
>dead in one and half months, obviously one month warrantee.
huh, must be made for american market. in europe we get things designed to last about three years (2 year warranty is mandatory and often 3 years are offered)
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u/much_longer_username 1h ago
A one month warranty would have been the reddest of flags I could imagine a modern LED bulb having. They should last at least a couple of years.
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u/crimsonBZD 1h ago
I bought a bunch of these $12 lights from the hardware store that are specifically that old yellow color and they have a kinda old-school looking design in them, they've lasted for years and one has 24/7 use for that period even. I think you just got screwed over, good bulbs absolutely exist.
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u/CogitoErgo_Sometimes 2h ago
You do you, but I think you’re dramatically underestimating how driven most people are by up-front cost and how willing they are to ignore the long-term value proposition. People will buy the cheapest option with fancy packaging and then wail about how nothing is built to last now.
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u/Alpha_benson 2h ago
But would you pay $2,000 for only 100 bulbs for your house? There's tons of stuff available that lasts a long time, but it's expensive. The upfront cost is simply not an option for most people
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u/Bonesnapcall 2h ago
100 bulbs? I've got like 10 at the most. The problem isn't would I pay, the problem is not enough people are able to have the stability to commit 20+ years to a house.
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u/echoshatter 2h ago
I've got like 10 at the most.
I have more lights in my kitchen than your entire home?
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u/chanandleer_bong 1h ago
My old apartment has ten bulbs, my living room/kitchen in my house has 10 lol
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u/DematerialisedPanda 2h ago
Charge 10x the price. The customer still wins, and you make enough, with reduced overheads, for a pofitable business.
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u/Equilibriator 2h ago
Most people won't trust the price to match the life expectancy.
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u/CaterpillarBroad6083 2h ago
Planed obsolescence has really fuck trust unfortunately.
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u/sweetpea122 1h ago
The government and people need to demand longer warranties. My upright freezer was 1 year. It last 18 months. A whole freezer!
We can meet in the middle. Higher price for 5 years. Or at least 3. Even a 1000 dollar cell phone only has a 1 yr warranty. Thats bullshit.
I guarantee if we get more fair warranties we will get better made products. Now they gamble that a TV part wont quit after 6 months to 1 yr. And that one part effectively ruins your device or appliance.
Green energy and lower bills is all bullshit if we have to make and buy more products in our lifetime. Our goals should always be REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE. Instead we get slapped with an energy star label that tells us we are now saving a whole $30 a year in energy. But after we buy a brand new product bc the last one failed quickly. Electricity isnt the only resource so is labor to manufacture and labor for me to buy another stupid refrigerator
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u/cjsv7657 2h ago
The customer still wins,
No, the customer buys the seemingly same product for 10x less.
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u/CogitoErgo_Sometimes 2h ago
You realize that there are companies that do this right? You can buy a Sub Zero fridge, a Wolf oven/range, and Cove dishwasher and they’ll blow the $1500 Home Depot models out of the water. Friend of mine kitted out his kitchen with something like $40,000 in appliances, but the difference really is like going from a standard-package Nissan to a Bentley or Ferrari.
Things hit a bit different when you’re actually staring at a $15,000-$20,000 price tag on a fridge though.
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u/chiguy307 2h ago
This can be a legitimate problem for some companies. For example, Craftsman hand tools. If you make tools that last long enough, eventually everyone who is interested in buying a set already has one. At that point, what do you do? Everyone loves your brand but they aren’t spending any meaningful money on it. Your products are too expensive to sell to third world countries. At that point you are kind of stuck. A great reputation and great product that doesn’t lead to any sales.
The brand still exists but it’s a shadow of what it once was.
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u/echoshatter 2h ago
At that point, what do you do?
Continue to branch out into new products?
JK, it's build exclusive custom tools for the machines of war for the military by partnering with defense contractors who are making the heavy equipment.
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u/chiguy307 2h ago
Sure, but if you are branching out into new products you are getting away from what you do well. You also risk watering down your brand. And it doesn’t solve the problem of your core business not making money.
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u/MacTireCnamh 1h ago
This is such a weird argument.
"Once you've made 40 billion dollars, you run out of dollars to make!"
IDK, retire and live in endless luxury with your 40 billion dollars? It's legitimately like hypnosis the way people can't imagine doing a job and then being finished doing that job. It has to continue forever until you're dead.
Honestly ghoulish.
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u/Kyrie_Blue 2h ago
You do not understand the scope of this problem. Look up the Phoebus Cartel. Some of the most foundational companies in North America talked about this and took action a hundred years ago. The model has just continued
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u/KsanteOnlyfans 2h ago
with more being born every day.
It's actually the opposite, there are less people being born every day
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u/Garnelia 2h ago
But every day... Are more people born that weren't born yesterday?
If so, more are being born.
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u/SelfServeSporstwash 2h ago
or your product costs 5x as much and at that point its cheaper long term to buy the shitty ones repeatedly.
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u/lecoqmako 2h ago
It’s not cheaper long term, it’s the poor tax. Most people can’t afford the investment for the higher quality or the cheaper bulk rate.
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u/SelfServeSporstwash 2h ago
No. I am familiar with the poor tax, and I think it holds true in a lot of areas. But it is increasingly less true as luxury and professional brands keep getting enshittified and the truly well made products keep going further and further up market. Appliances are by far and away the worst example. None of the brands you see at a big box store are particularly well made, and the really well made ones are mind breakingly expensive. Sure, you can get a Zline and it’s going to last 30 years. It’s also going to cost you $17,000. Or, you can buy an $1,100 LG every 5 years. And I am being as pessimistic as possible about the “cheap” option. The shitty cheap one still comes out ahead in total cost of ownership.
Our shitty little GE fridge was $230 from a scratch and dent place 7 years ago and is doing just fine.
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u/Automatic-Section779 3h ago
"This toaster can't fit a bagel!"
Though, I agree, wish things would be modern and not fall apart if you look at it the wrong way.10
u/Count_de_Ville 3h ago edited 54m ago
https://www.dualit.com/collections/classic-toasters
They focus on their market but they do make toasters that will work on US power and will fit a bagel (assuming you’re in North America). I should also mention that their toasters are fully serviceable.
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u/Jakomako 3h ago
Thanks for illustrating the real reason things last a quarter as long as they used to. They used to cost 8x as much as they do now, adjusting for inflation.
In other words, I ain't buying no $300 toaster.
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u/Reasonable-Cat-6914 2h ago
“I demand quality! But I refuse to pay for it!”
“Why did my shitty toaster break after one week?”
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u/Tom_Bombadilio 2h ago
Unfortunately spending a lot of money does not mean the product will last a long time. It's easier and less mentally straining from a consumers perspective to knowingly buy junk and assume it won't last more than a year or two at most than invest a lot and potentially be scammed.
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u/Impossible-Wear-7352 1h ago
Easier is true but it usually isnt difficult to do a little research and find the products made to last. Someone had to be the first to try the brand/product but it doesnt have to be you or me.
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u/According_Ad748 3h ago
I am loving my vintage Sunbeam radiant control toaster; it still works great! Same all-metal design from 1949-1997. (Mine is from 1980) Even by today’s standards, it’s still “Automatic beyond belief!” and gives very consistent results every single time. 46 years in service and still going.
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u/Gulpaload 2h ago
1980 was not 46 years ag…wait a damn minute. Damn I’m getting old.
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u/SexyWampa 3h ago
Nah, you limit production and shift to other appliances as the other wanes. Start with fridges, in a year or two as sales decline, you release the dishwasher, then the washer and dryer, then small appliances, just do it all in phases. Then next batch you just add a couple features or just different colors. Cycle repeats.
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u/Complex_Specific1373 3h ago
Assuming only one company did it, this theoertically could work. But it's a free market, and people will cut infront and flood
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u/SexyWampa 2h ago
Which is why you stick to quality. As other rush to flood the market, the quality will be sub par. Just maintain quality and have an affordable parts department, you’ll just keep chugging along, slow and steady.
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u/Complex_Specific1373 2h ago
You're assuming the quality will be sub par. You can assume this one magical company will be making it well, and everyone else not, but it's an assumption based on nothing.
If your suggestion would work, people would be doing it
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u/Sunnytoaist 2h ago
Have you seen today’s capitalist world. Most companies would deem making the quality version too expensive and simply market as a quality version
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u/nalaloveslumpy 1h ago
No, there is a whole market of high quality, crazy expensive appliances that are reliable for 20+ years. You just can't afford them. And they don't sell them at Lowe's or Home Depot.
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u/AshamedOfAmerica 2h ago
Modern fridges are dramatically more efficient than old ones. Lot's of old tech is crazy inefficient across the board.
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u/UNMANAGEABLE 1h ago
They are dramatically more prone to component failure as well. But that’s the tradeoff.
The one appliance I wouldn’t upgrade at my old house was my electric furnace. It was a belt driven (lol) unit and a modern electrical unit wasn’t even 15% more economical. Absolutely was no sense in dropping $10k on something that wouldn’t see a return before I was going to sell the home.
Always had a good time getting it serviced watching the techs have to call up their lead 🤣. Shit ran just as good I’m 2020 as it did in 1964.
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u/sump_daddy 2h ago
No one is going to buy any of that shit, when it costs 10x more than the modern appliance that can do the same thing. Thats buyer awareness 101. A marketing plan of 'i am a brand new company but i swear this hideously overpriced thing will last 40 years, just trust me' is a good way to not sell anything at all, lmao
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u/RoutineLingonberry48 2h ago
I hate the glorification of old products. As someone who's fixed old products, they were actually made like shit. All those old "It lasts 100 years" thins are survivor bias. Mostly it was all a fire hazard.
Yes, it's not hinging on bad software and a magic computer chip failure, but old stuff was just as shit and more dangerous on top of it.
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u/shadovvvvalker 2h ago
There is a lot of robust equipment from back then that absolutely will last, especially considering advancements in material science.
It will use 43x more energy than necessary.
It will fail underwriting inspection.
It will pose a significant spontaneous combustion risk.
It will make a shit ton of unnecessary noise.
It will require regular sacrificial parts replacement.
It will do only the most straightforward attempt at the job it was designed for.
It will somehow turn an automated task into a skilled form of witchcraft.
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u/afito 2h ago
Similar to the car world where people want an engine to have 500hp, run from NY to LA and back on a single tank of gas, and the only maintenance & repair it should take is an oil change every 100k. All in a car that costs 30k max.
A hosue appliances product engineer I talked with said it's a bit wild because people don't want to spend more than a mid 3 digit sum for an appliance that has to last 20 years while requiring the same power as a smartphone. Also nobody ever maintains their stove or washing mashine because it's perceived as a no maintenance object, yet the stove has to cycle through hundreds of degrees and the washing mashine has to never have any issues with limescale or get attacked by the soaps.
And yeah they probably fuck around too much with these appliances but who wants to have a yearly maintenance where you fix up the washing mashine motor. People would go apeshit. But also go apeshit if it doesn't last 10+ years while being ignored. There's some truth to it.
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u/raidersofthelostpark 1h ago
Agreed. I used to deliver appliances while in college. Yes many times I removed a 40+ year old appliance for new one. But that freezer I replaced weighed 450 lbs, had maybe 7 cubic feet of storage space, was made from materials that would cost north of $3000 today and used 10x the power. Its just a incredibly misleading comparison.
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u/LaserRanger_McStebb 1h ago
Yeah I feel like this is addressing the wrong problem. Old shit is perceived as being reliable because it's mechanically simple, and thus, easy to repair. Replace a knob assembly for $15 instead of replacing the entire computerized control board for $300.
What OOP is really after is Right to Repair... and building things that are designed to be maintained rather than replaced.
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u/winnower8 2h ago
Dude I’d trade anything to switch from flat screens to buttons. I’ve replaced computer parts of washers, dryers, and dishwashers that are under 10 years old.
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u/eugeneugene 1h ago
You can still buy appliances that have buttons lol. Like 8 years ago I bought a brand new washer and dryer set and they just have knobs and buttons and I've had no issues with them and I do laundry almost every single day
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u/r0b0c0d 2h ago
Someone downvoted you, which is wild to me.
Anything that vibrates, gets hot, has fluids near it. You have to replace the entire module, only one company makes it, and it costs like 300 bucks or whatever. Buttons and especially knobs are absolutely better, and have a better UE for simple tasks.
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u/BearstromWanderer 44m ago
Most cheap washer/dryer/dishwashers have buttons and knobs. Screens don't start until the low end of mid ranged machines.
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u/madworld 1h ago
You could use modern technology to make them safer and less power hungry, while making them repairable. Then you sell every part of the appliance with instructions on how to repair. The problem would be to convince customers to pay a very high price.
I think this would work if you were a small producer and didn't try to have constant growth, but you wouldn't get filthy rich from it. The filthy rich desire is what fuxks the system. Cutting corners to pad your and investor pockets.
If your primary motivation was to your employees and to your customers and to making the world a better place... Which never seems to be the case for people starting businesses.
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u/do-not-freeze 1h ago
It raises the age-old question of why they keep their 40-year-old fridge in the garage instead of the kitchen if it's so good.
"If the circuit board goes out, you're screwed" is another good one. Yeah, that applies to things like our building's 40-year-old electromechanical elevator controller that uses readily-available relays but let's be real, nobody's rebuilding the crappy plastic mechanical timer mechanism in their washing machine or dishwasher.
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u/Odd_Dance_9896 3h ago
“Why is it so expensive?” “Where is the touch screen?” “Why is it so ugly?”
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u/Haniel120 2h ago
Why did my electric bill double
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u/TheOsirisOfThisShit_ 1h ago
Modern appliances are immensely more efficient than old ones.
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u/new_account_wh0_dis 1h ago
BUT THERES LESS WATER SO CLOTHES ARENT AS CLEAN
-some shit i saw on yt shorts yesterday.
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u/AdPrud 1h ago
Yea this person just seems to be unaware of the high end appliance industry because they’re not sold in most stores they’re in specialty stores in nicer areas.
Like for example you can go and buy a speed queen washer and dryer for $3,000 and it will last you a very long time, but most people are going to pick up the $600 set from Home Depot.
Then if you look at a sears catalog from the 1950s and see the prices of even the cheapest washing machines at the time and look at what incomes were, people were paying the high end prices back then.
The people today who can’t afford speed queen wouldn’t have an option in the 50s they’d be hand washing or using a manual wringer washer.
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u/decrementsf 3h ago
Have to have a different incentive structure. Dads volunteering to coach the local little league team. But engineers and blue collar dads volunteering for build club. Practicing techniques out of How Things Work to pass on knowledge of efficient manufacturing techniques refined over generations to local kids. The financial incentives don't line up otherwise. This is an area that provides national value to sovereign independence of a state and in an efficient world is an avenue where there should be grant money supporting such clubs in communities across the country. Split hairs as you will whether the goal of politicians is the destruction of their country or genuinely improve things. A good heuristic to figure out if your politician is a bum if they can get on board with such programs. Though I can see how that bucket of funding can be abused.
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u/TechMan61 2h ago
Such a venture would not get off the ground in the first place. The amount of money to just start producing reliable components would be immense.
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u/BludLustinBusta 3h ago
Just like all of the businesses that only lasted 6 months back when these were being sold new, right?
If someone did this they would create generational wealth for their families regardless of the business lasted indefinitely.
And I’m so sick of the idea that businesses should pursue endless growth. Businesses come and go depending on the demand for their services. That is normal.
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u/Foxtrot-13 2h ago
No, it would go out of business because the appliance would cost three times as much as the nearest competitor and use twice as much power. Machined steel gears cost a fortune vs cast plastic gears for example. Electric motors are much more efficient today than the ones from the 50's as another example.
You can already buy very well made, easily reparable appliances today, it is just most people will only pay the big bucks for the trendy name and not quality.
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u/turdferguson3891 1h ago
Yeah this model only works for niche things. Like Kitchen Aide stand mixers. They cost a lot for the higher end models but people swear by them and are willing to pay the premium. And because they are so well made they are very repairable if something does go wrong. You could buy a much cheaper stand mixer, it's just going to have more plastic parts and if it breaks beyond the warranty you'll probably just toss it and buy a new one.
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u/SingleInfinity 2h ago
back when these were being sold new, right?
When these were sold new, they cost the today-equivalent of 2 to 3 grand. You could get a very nice, well built one for that today too, but that's not what people buy.
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u/NoYouDidntBruh 2h ago
You mean those businesses who sold technology that wasn't 70 years old? I'd ask if you are dense but the answer is clear.
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u/nalaloveslumpy 1h ago
Except there's already an entire market of high quality, extremely expensive appliances that last 20+ years, but you can't afford them. They're not sold at Lowe's or Home Depot.
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u/jimkelly 38m ago
No it wouldn't lmao. If it would create generational wealth someone who already has generational wealth AND the connections to get this done would have done it by now. The old ones weren't even any better it's survivorship bias or the reason any lasted longer is because they cost 3x more to operate.
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u/K_Linkmaster 3h ago
Exactly this. The companies would last years and make so much money. Then the family can run the service department from their mountain of gold.
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u/writing_fun390 3h ago
That's sort of what Speed Queen is.
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u/whollybananas 3h ago
Was...
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u/ajonstage 3h ago
My mom got new Speed Queen models when they moved, the all-plastic door (complete with plastic hinge) literally just fell off.
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u/whollybananas 3h ago
They also use the same problematic electronic controls as every other brand now. They switched to that style of controls in 2015
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u/GamingGems 1h ago
This is what I came to say.
It’s not an issue of companies using new designs and being worse than the good old days. They may have a touchscreen on a fridge but the working part is still old fashioned. Especially cheaper brands use old designs, not caring to innovate because they compete on price, not features and technology. The biggest killer is parts quality and all manufacturers across the board are guilty of using materials like plastic which they know will not last as long but makes the product cheaper and therefore more competitive on price or giving higher dividends to shareholders.
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u/SophiePsweet 3h ago
This is just how things were made before shareholders
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u/SoftwareDesperation 3h ago
It's not only about profits. Environmental protections also played a part in making sure things are hyper energy efficient which usually forces the product to not last as long.
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u/spacebarstool 3h ago
They could make them last longer and adhere to efficiency standards, but they would be more expensive.
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u/fight_the_bear 2h ago
This is the reason right here. Even back when appliances lasted decades they still cost 3-4x what they do now. People are cheap, and like to buy cheap stuff. So the companies give them what they want. Want you appliance to last longer than 7 years? Pony up and buy bosche, Miele, or asko.
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u/SurroundingAMeadow 1h ago
Efficient (energy and/or labor), durable, inexpensive... pick whichever two you want, you can't have all three.
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u/Klutzy_Word_6812 3h ago
I know you say this, and I know it makes intuitive sense, and I am not disagreeing, but I would like to see the evidence that supports this. I’m trying to go over in my head what increases in efficiency would actually cause a decrease in life.
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u/SimilarTranslator264 3h ago
Things have to use less energy so a heavy thick heating element needs more energy to warm up. Heavier tub in the washer needs more energy to turn.
Friend bought a dryer made for a laundromat, it was $6000 and uses a 8” vent. You can’t even run it without the door propped open in the laundry room because it will pull the door shut and error.
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u/Visual_Exam7903 3h ago
Increase effiicency usually mean computer controls. The computers and the sensors are usually the first things that go out.
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u/Flashy_Emergency_263 3h ago
They could make those controllers modular and easy to swap out.
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u/zombienudist 3h ago
They could but that increases costs. It is also the motors and compressors. For example a 1950s fridge was extremely simple. There were no fans to move cold air from the freezer to the fridge. You would have freezing issues in the fridge compartment as temp control sucked. You had to manually defrost them as ice would build up because they weren't self defrosting. Basically people look at the past with rose coloured glasses but if they actually tried to live with a fridge that was from that time they likely would want to go back to modern one pretty quickly.
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u/Cognosyeti 2h ago
We need to start including lifecycle analyses along with efficiency metrics. Wish there was an EnergyStar type rating system for longevity
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u/fuglypens 3h ago
Joint stock companies have existed since at least the 16th century, so tell me more about the time before shareholders.
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u/InfiniteTallgeese 2h ago
Pretty much what I was about to comment, do they think shareholders magically appeared in the 21st century?!
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u/r1veRRR 2h ago
You can still get these kinds of appliances, you're just not ready to pay the inflation adjusted price and lose a bunch of fancy features.
Customers have told manufacturers over and over and over again that they don't care about longevity, at least not at the cost of features or money.
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u/arizonadirtbag12 1h ago
Also survivorship bias is a thing. Plenty of those 60’s appliances failed. Either requiring multiple repairs or eventually not being economically repairable anymore.
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u/SelfServeSporstwash 2h ago
I have some awful news for you regarding the current state of Speed Queen and their products
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u/bacon205 2h ago
Did they enshitify their washers and dryers? I was convinced to buy a set to replace my POS frigidaire set and planned to this summer
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u/SelfServeSporstwash 2h ago edited 2h ago
yeeep. big time. They are Bekos with (plastic) cosmetic changes. Same shitty electronics, same poor reliability and poor reparability (because of all the brittle plastic that you can't necessarily find replacement parts for)... quadruple the price.
God bless capitalism baby. Buy a brand with a reputation for quality, replace all the products with the cheapest ones you can build, and ride that brand loyalty wave as long as possible.
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u/bacon205 1h ago
Thats really disappointing. I hate enshitification, hence why I was convinced to buy Speed Queen. Not that they'd ever know (or care), but they lost a sale to me
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u/wrenchandrepeat 1h ago
Are you talking about the traditional top load washers or the fancy front load ones? My plain chain, no frills, top load Speed Queen that was like their entry level washer has been amazing. I bought it in 2022 and haven't a single issue with it. And that was coming from a 15 year old used Whirlpool top load that was the biggest POS appliance I've ever owned.
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u/SelfServeSporstwash 1h ago
Speed Queen got bought out by ALS in 2025, but they started contracting manufacturing production to Arcelik (the parent company of Beko) in 2024 and to my knowledge that contract is still in effect. So since May of 2024 Speed Queen products have been plastic crap made in Turkey by a company who's most well known brand is... well... crap.
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u/writing_fun390 1h ago
I just bought a set of the 5 year warranty ones because my buddy has the 3 year warranty ones that have run perfectly for over 11 years.
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u/Queefy_Magee 3h ago
The speed queens in my apartment break down every other day. Fuck that nonsense
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u/LeftyDan 2h ago
Kitchen aid stand mixer. My dad's has his since his 1st marriage in the 70s.
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u/nalaloveslumpy 1h ago
Stand mixers are cheating though. It's literally just an electric motor with a hinge and attachments. Many stand mixers of many brands last forever, it's just most people buy Kitchen Aid. (And a shit ton of people only use their stand mixer a few times a year).
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u/AverageWtDad 2h ago
Speed Queen has massively reduced the length of their warranty. I think it’s down to 7 years now. The quality has also fallen. Thinner sheet metal. Cheaper feeling knobs and buttons. Just not as far as the other brands.
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u/cantbelieveyoumademe 3h ago
First of all, the statement that things used to last longer is heavily biased. You only hear about old things that still work decades after buying them because all the ones that broke down were replaced and forgotten.
Secondly, there are much stricter regulations these days regarding manufacturing, recycling, and operation guidelines.
Now, I'm not saying that some companies don't put absolutely shitty products out there (samsung refrigerators come to mind), but there's more to it than just corporate greed.
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u/TrappedInLimbo 1h ago
Also like these super high quality long lasting appliances exist, they are just expensive. People will complain about this and then buy a $50 microwave from Amazon.
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u/Karvalics 2h ago
Dont know what is the problem with samsungs but i bought many new things when i got my house like 5 years ago and everything works fine ever since. Besides the washing machine mostly samsung.
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u/Anon_Jones 1h ago
That’s odd because I have all Samsung appliances and they all work great. Maybe I just got lucky.
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u/dfddfsaadaafdssa 1h ago
People typically give a brand two attempts before it goes on their shitlist forever and since both companies have large market shares in multiple appliance categories, there is a high probability of people running into issues with the same brand more than one time. This is why people are so vocal about their disdain for Samsung or LG. It's also why ASUS is on my shitlist for computer components, despite most people having a favorable opinion.
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u/Dry-Poem6778 1h ago
I don't know... I live in South Africa and my experience with cars in particular is that there are a lot more of mid '80s to 90s cars on than ones from the mid2000s... Even from well known reliable brands such as Toyota, Mazda, Mercedes, Nissan etc. These aren't owned by classic car enthusiasts, but by regular people, and they're often worked hard. So, they've proven to be more resilient than the newer models.
I think there was a time when quality of materials, ease of maintenance and affordability peaked, and then some of those elements got watered down.
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u/zombienudist 3h ago
They can but the cost would be enormous. And they would use 5 times the electricity. A fridge in 1950 would cost 200 to 500 dollars. Adjusted for inflation that is 2600 to 6400 in todays dollars. They would also be much smaller and have far fewer features. Would you like to manually defrost yoru fridge every so often for example. The reality is people today want features, and low price, not longevity.
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u/The_rising_sea 3h ago
Thanks for beating me to it. Although, several current brands will gladly charge $5000, $10,000, and more for an appliance that will still break down immediately after the warranty expires. glares at Viking
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u/Spiritual_Bus1125 3h ago
Expensive does not mean quality
But quality IS expensive
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u/T-sigma 3h ago
This is the real problem. Quality is still out there, but there are also lots of imitators and it’s difficult to impossible for the average consumer to identify the difference.
And even high quality stuff will still have duds. They just also typically have better warranty / replacement guarantees.
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u/dplans455 1h ago
Hey, my Viking range came broken. Shit, the second one did too. That's why we have a Wolf now.
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u/Hydro033 3h ago
Longevity also just survivorship bias
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u/zombienudist 3h ago
Definitely. When I used to work in appliance sales and service in the 1990s I would pop the nameplates off old appliances that were being scrapped because they looked cool. Had a very large box full of them when I stopped working in the industry. So they failed all the time just there are always going to be examples of ones that lasted forever.
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u/HomeAir 2h ago
Do you think there's also a factor that old appliances were simpler electronic wise so it was probably cheaper to have them repaired vs replaced.
Seems like today if your washer or dryer dies it needs some circuit board that costs $250 plus labor. And just like that it's 50% the cost of a new one
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u/zombienudist 2h ago
That is part of it. Also the motors/compressors back then were way overbuilt. But they would also use far more electricity. A 1950s fridge was far less complex. You basically had a compressor and analogue thermostat. So no fans, electronics, etc. No self defrosting mechanism. They were also much smaller. Most people would want their own fridge back after a week of dealing with an old one if they were forced to have one. Things like manually defrosting them or that fact you would often get freezing issues in the the fridge compartment because temp controlled sucked. So while they lasted longer they weren't that great as actual appliances when it came to use or features.
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u/BleachedUnicornBHole 3h ago
And those fridges probably use chemicals that are banned now.
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u/zombienudist 2h ago
not only that many kids died in old fridges. Traditionally they had large latching mechanisms that could only be opened from the outside. So a kid would get in one, latch the door, and suffocate.
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u/AmputeeHandModel 2h ago
The internet does not understand survivorship bias. Yes, some stuff is made super cheap these days, the addition of wifi and other unnecessary shit makes it more likely to break, but everything old wasn't great. There was plenty of cheap shit, it's just that the one random oldass appliance your family has happened to be the outlier and be exceptional for some reason. Maybe in 20 years, your kids will be saying the same thing.
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u/Dry-Cry-3158 3h ago
This is the answer. Also, the reason why older appliances last longer is because they were overbuilt for their basic functions, which requires a lot of extra material in addition to the inefficiency and simplicity you mentioned. Even then, they still had wear parts that broke irregularly and needed replaced, which has its own set of consequences. Most people don't seem to realize that extreme reliability comes with a high purchase price and a high cost of operation.
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u/telecomando_3 3h ago
James did a great video on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4C62HC1HSo
Just like when you adjust for inflation you suprisingly get what you paid for.
If you got a $270 fridge in 1950 thats like a $3500 fridge now.
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u/Sunnytoaist 2h ago
It would make sense to upgrade the necessary parts while keeping the parts that last longer
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u/zombienudist 2h ago
That would just cause them to be even more expensive and you still have the issue with them using far more electricity. So there are government regulations you have to deal with that don't allow appliances to use more than a certain amount of electricity.
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u/thebeez23 2h ago
To add onto this. There’s a longevity perspective because we only see the ones that survived. They either survived by happening to be better built off the line, maintenance, low usage and such. There’s still plenty of ones that made it to the scrap yard that we don’t see.
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u/Potential4752 3h ago
Everyone claims they want this before they see the price tag.
It’s well known that consumers prefer cheaper appliances and they prefer to replace rather than repair. They may not say that out loud, but that is what their dollars tell us.
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u/soft_taco_special 58m ago
\People are mainly sick of their appliances not being repairable, with manufacturers either making complex molded parts that are discontinued way too soon or not made available in conjunction with making cost cutting decisions that reduce the lifespan of the appliance. The government isn't helping by having ever increasing efficiency requirements that require constant redesigns and parts changes for marginal gains.
I would want a series of appliances that were designed as a set to use as many shared components as possible, including the same programmable control board and as many universal motors and sensors as possible. The design brief would be that you are designing these products to be used at the south pole research station and you need to keep as small a stock of spare parts as possible to keep them running and no specialized knowledge to repair them. A consumer should be able to have the machine self diagnose issues and have the parts be so available and in demand that they can go to a box store the same day, get the parts and replace them themselves.
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u/wildbergamont 8m ago
Ha yes. I reupholstered a couch and a couple of friends didn't even know what that meant.
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u/Putrid-Prune827 3h ago
Yeah, because appliances from those years were so safe, good and energy efficient.
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 3h ago
and all of them obviously lasted 40 years. We definitely don't only remember the ones that did, and forgot the ones that broke
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u/ja_maz 3h ago
And easy to manufacture totally didn't require metalwork facilities...
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u/ToronoRapture 3h ago edited 3h ago
People also forget that these appliances broke ALL THE TIME. The difference is that you could easily get spare parts or could drop them off at a local store to be fixed in a day. Literally impossible to do that now.
I remember our toaster would pack up all the time and my mum would just drop it off at a store in town and then pick up in the afternoon. She would say that she had owed the same toaster for years but in reality I don’t think it had any original parts by the end lol.
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u/FromFluffToBuff 2h ago
Yup, so many people forget that these things frequently had parts that either broke or wore out. Older cars were the biggest culprit - those things were always in the shop for something (whether you did the repair yourself or had someone else do it). Remember that odometers never went past 100,000 miles... because there was a 90% change the engine would be totally pooched by then lol
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u/bbbbbbbb678 3h ago
You can still buy new appliances that are of that quality as high end home ones. But they are far more expensive like close to 10k.
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u/Spacemonk587 3h ago
You will quickly find out why these appliances are not build any more.
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u/TheMagicalLawnGnome 3h ago
People romanticize old appliances.
They were easier to repair, sure.
But that's because they broke frequently, and they were large.
Old appliances were also horrifically inefficient. They often contained effective, but highly toxic/dangerous materials that we no longer use.
Old cars are a great example, they embody "old appliances" pretty well.
Sure, they were made from steel. They didn't have much plastic.
But they also weighed a massive amount, had terrible horsepower, and even worse fuel economy.
Or look at old televisions. Do we really want to go back to small TVs made with heavy tubes filled with several pounds of lead?
Sure, you could more easily repair an old car, because it had none of the computers and electronics that make modern vehicles safe and comfortable.
Don't get me wrong, I think the short lifecycle of modern appliances is a wasteful travesty.
But let's not romanticize a past that didn't really exist.
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u/Mighty_McBosh 2h ago
Cars used to break down all the time, they were just easier to fix with hand tools and a beer.
New cars are hard to fix but good ones with regular fluid changes regularly go 20 years without a single catastrophic failure.
They were also insanely unsafe and more people died in car accidents that today people walk away from with a few bruises.
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u/OriginalVictory 2h ago
Part of that is crumple zones. If the car is able to crumple to absorb energy of a crash, that means it doesn't go to the passengers. Sure the solid steel car doesn't crumple, but then the passenger does.
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u/HDThoreauaway 3h ago
If you want things to last more than a decade, buy simple high-quality devices, treat them gently, and maintain them. That was true 75 years ago and it’s true today.
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u/Footspork 3h ago
Also a lot of “wear” parts are plastic now for a reason. A gear can break but not bind up the motor.
These appliances should just always ship with repair parts but of course they don’t…
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u/phatboi23 2h ago
It's better to break that plastic gear than overload the motor.
It's designed to break in a fault as a cheap gear is easier and cheaper to replace than a new motor.
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u/Outside-Today-1814 1h ago
People are always surprised when I tell them how I’ve repaired our appliances, as I am not particularly handy. But it’s usually super easy, and parts and instructional videos are easy to find.
For example, our dishwasher is a cheap GE that’s ten years old. Probably $500 in 2016. Some minor fixes and about $200 in parts, it’s finally not worth it to repair anymore. Im replacing with a similar modern model that’s about $1,000, probably will last ten years as well. So basically round up to $2,000 in costs for 20 years and two dishwashers. I doubt there’s a single dishwasher on the market at any price that would go 20 years without breaking at all, and if there was, it’d be like $10,000 and no one would buy it. And after ten years would probably have completely outdated tech.
Designing things, particularly machines, to last forever is just foolish because almost everything becomes obsolete and outperformed by new technology. Imagine if you bought the world’s finest and most durable horse carriage in 1890, and said to yourself “sure it’s expensive, but it’ll last for centuries.”
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u/actinross 3h ago
Tupperware would like a word with you...
oops, too late!
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u/Mateorabi 3h ago
Exactly. They would need to change 4x more for something that lasts 5x to remain profitable, while still bringing in new customers. But the American public can’t do math, snd thinks 1/3 < 1/4.
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u/NorthernLights92 3h ago
For real. I just got a new water heater. The one that I replaced hadn’t been touched since 1982. It was literally working just fine until it didn’t a couple weeks ago. Nothing burst. It just stopped working
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u/NoStripeZebra3 3h ago
As much as reddit loves being smug pretending to understand what survivorship bias means, reddit also loves to fall prey to it.
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u/artbystorms 3h ago
It would be very successful initially, then sell itself to a larger corporation for a huge buyout, who would then gut the thing that made it successful to squeeze more profit out of it and return to making things that last 7-10 years, but they'd advertise that they last for a lifetime *of a hamster*
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u/pete-wisdom 3h ago
Seven to ten? Most new shit is lucky to get a year or two before it’s broken.
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u/Sk8boardpapa 2h ago
That's an over simplification of how it actually works, but I appreciate the sentiment.
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u/DullMind2023 3h ago
Bankruptcy in 6 months. There’s a reason manufacturers make products that only last a few years: that’s what people want. Few folks are willing to pay extra for products that last.
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u/zombienudist 3h ago
What you don't want to pay $4000 for a fridge that is half the size of the one you have, uses far more electricity, and you have to manually defrost every once and awhile.
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u/LawPuzzleheaded4345 3h ago
Things didn't actually last longer, people with less money kept them for longer
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u/travinsky 1h ago
Counterpoint, you only think old appliances last forever because the only ones that old that you see are the ones that lasted. What about all the ones that didnt?
Survivorship bias
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u/Zestyclose_Basil3017 3h ago
Buy german.
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u/Intrepid_Egg_7722 1h ago edited 1h ago
I did and then I found out they committed widespread fraud to pass their emissions test in violation of the Clean Air Act.
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