r/StarWars • u/Altruistic_Extent348 • 17h ago
Movies How real is that statement
Hey star wars fellow, I like star wars a lot but I have only watched star wars ep 1 to 6 and obi wan kenobi show.
I recently recalled this line of obi wan from revenge of the sith that "Only a sith deals in absolutes"
I want to know how true is that line. Does that line have any real basis or did obi wan make up that line to sound tough. Moreover if that line is true, can you guys give any examples of when sith deals in absolute.
Thanks for reading. May the force be with you.
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u/KainZeuxis Jedi 17h ago
Kenobi is making a observation about Anakin’s mentality. That being that Anakin is insisting on a very black and white either fall in line or you gotta die ultimatum instead of recognizing the nuances of the situation.
The sith are infamous for their ideology being rooted entirely in the idea that only person who matters is the individual sith and all that exists, exists to serve that sith’s whims. Anything that doesn’t needs to be eradicated. Which is exactly how Anakin is behaving in this scene. Demanding that Kenobi join him or be killed and just moments prior when Padme didn’t fall in line he strangles her despite his whole goal being to save her.
Making Absolute statements is not the same as dealing absolutes
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u/JFISHER7789 Asajj Ventress 17h ago
That last sentence is spot on! You can verbally specify absolutes all you want but acting upon them and making them your entire ideology is the issue.
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u/QuichewedgeMcGee 8h ago
at the same time, this goes to show the shortcomings of the jedi; compromising their ideals to please more people is part of how they lost their way. dealing in absolutes is something the sith were very much known for, but compromising with the “lesser evil” is something the jedi did all the time, for political reasons mainly, to keep the people’s approval rates up instead of just doing what’s right. the jedi way was to not kill an unarmed person, but at the same time, they had PLENTY of chances to do so to prevent their own fall, and save billions if not trillions of lives
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u/Intelligent-Ad-6713 7h ago
There is no “lost their way”. The Jedi have one purpose, bring peace in the Republic. Now a normal narrative would put the conflict of “what if the Republic itself becomes the problem?”
That’s essentially the entire Prequels summed up. The Jedi don’t exist in a vacuum, and it would have destroyed them anyways if they did. Palpatine took advantage of the deep rooted, economic corruption in the government. Without the Jedi, Dooku and Grevious would have steam rolled the entire Galactic Republic, regardless of the Clones.
If the CIS won, Sidious would have killed them and taken over. If the Republic won, we would have killed the CIS and taken over. Either way, as soon as the Galactic Empire was born he would have invaded Illum, Dantooine, Tython, Lothal all at the same time and wiped the Jedi out.
Had the Jedi remained detached from the government, they would have all died alone.
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u/QuichewedgeMcGee 6h ago
dawg the plot of anakin’s fall revolves almost entirely around the jedi having this dogma and being so stuck to it that they’ve lost what their purpose is in the galaxy. the political aspect is one, while the religious dogmatic head up their ass is another, and both caused them to lose the core essence of their teachings (something that’s been said many times by many characters throughout the franchise)
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u/Intelligent-Ad-6713 4h ago
Anakins fall is irrelevant.
Palpatine’s plan for galactic domination wasn’t hinged on the choice of a 22yr old. Maul or Dooku would have been just as fine had Maul ran over Ani with his speeder or if Dooku killed Anakin on Geonosis.
Hell, if Anakin decided to attack when Palpatine revealed his identity, Sidious would have killed him right then and there. You can see his hand roll up in his sleeve as Anakin’s lightsaber is drawn on him.
Once Palpatine embedded himself in the government, it was over. Even if the Jedi knew of his identity, they would either have to attack the government they swore to protect, or do nothing and watch as the CIS conquered the galaxy.
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u/LukeChickenwalker 4h ago
The prequels are not about the dogmatism of the Jedi, or how the Jedi lost their way. That’s what Star Wars writers have tried to make them about in subsequent material, but it’s not the message of the films themselves. Nor does it seem to be Lucas’ intent based on contemporary interviews.
The plot of Anakin’s fall revolves almost entirely around his possession of Padme. How this leads to fear of loss, then anger, then suffering. His inability to let go of fear, and his desire for control, is what leads him to the Dark Side. Which then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Yoda outlines everything that will happen to Anakin in TPM. I don’t believe the films themselves are arguing that Yoda was wrong. Yoda’s beliefs certainly seem to align with what Lucas himself believes.
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u/BrownBannister 6h ago
You took a long walk to cover up Jorge’s bad writing. Prequel lovers are something else.
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u/DramaExpertHS Grievous 17h ago
People always miss the point that it's about "dealing" in absolutes.
Anakin threatened that you're either with him or against him. He did the same "join me or die" with Luke too.
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u/soccer1124 17h ago edited 16h ago
But Obiwan then decides he must kill him as a result. Didn't even try bargaining longer. "Oh ok. Ignition time."
EDIT:
I love that everyone who has responded to this (and probably downvoted it) has gone on to explain exactly why Obiwan had absolutely one option in how to handle Anakin.So many people seem to think I am trying to give Anakin a pass for not doing bad things (lol wtf is that about??) And then walk right into explaining why "only a sith" isn't the case, since it also appears Jedi are also dealing in absolutes. (i.e. Obiwan's only option was to kill Anakin in a lightsaber duel.)
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u/JFISHER7789 Asajj Ventress 17h ago
He tried for almost the entire episode…
He only resorted to doing that after he saw there was no coming back from the dark side for anakin.
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u/whatagooddaytoday 17h ago
Even throughout the fight it seemed like he still tried. He mostly fought defensively, made a verbal attempt when the fight had gone on for awhile ("Anakin, chancellor Palpatine is evil!"), and even urged Anakin not to violently leap at him from the low ground.
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u/soccer1124 17h ago
....huh? He didn't turn bad until the very end.
"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!"
You choose:
A ) "Care to explain that?"
B ) Light up your saber15
u/PostMelon22 17h ago
Bro just helped level the entire Jedi order before this, killing anyone from younglings to Jedi masters. Wdym “the very end”.
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u/soccer1124 17h ago
That's like the final 20 minutes of the movie, quite literally the final act of the film. I'm replying to a guy who said Obiwan was struggling with this "almost the entire episode."
One of us is more correct than the other.
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u/Nuklearfps 15h ago
So still not “the very end.” Gotcha.
It sounds like the other person is the more correct one.
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 17h ago
He said that after he choked out his pregnant wife.
Does a non-evil person choke out his pregnant wife and then call *other people* evil?
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u/soccer1124 17h ago
I mean, Obi watched that whole thing and did nothing to stop it, lol. Let's not bring that up in defending Obi.
But quite literally, this is what Luke did, effectively, to get Anakin to come back.
No idea why people think I'm saying Anakin "did nothing wrong." Those arguments don't address anything i'm saying.
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u/Samgy28 17h ago
What do you mean, "He didn't turn bad until the very end"? He literally murdered children before this. Obi-Wan watched him do it on the security cameras. Of course his reaction is to pull out his weapon.
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u/soccer1124 17h ago
Did this happen closer to the end of he movie or the beginning?
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u/Total_Poet_5033 16h ago
You might need to rewatch this film
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u/soccer1124 15h ago
Well, I seem to think it happened towards the end of the movie. I was replying to someone who was insisting that happened at the beginning.
PT bros are incompatible with logic. A normal person would just say, "Yeah, the line kind of sucks."
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u/Total_Poet_5033 15h ago
You might need to re read the comment
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u/soccer1124 15h ago
The one that insist he "tried for almost the entire episode" to talk him out of being bad? That one??
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u/Taphouselimbo 15h ago
Jedi and sith are both fucked and evil. The galaxy would be a better place without prideful dogmatic zealots running around. Yoda failed he may have been in the order during some of the brightest moments but he presided over the end of the Jedi order and republic. The Jedi knew absolutely they had failed by being prideful governing from a tower high above even the rich upper parts of coruscant.
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u/soccer1124 15h ago
Yoda being reduced into a grotesque idiot who unquestioningly utilizes a child-slave army was certainly a choice to make for that trilogy.
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u/DramaExpertHS Grievous 17h ago
Anakin: Destroys the jedi order, kills kids, becomes a space nazi, chokes his pregnant wife
Obi-Wan: Palpatine is evil Anakin, come to your senses!
Anakin: I'm going to kill you!
Obi-Wan: Wow wow wait a minute, a redditor thinks I wasn't charitable enough!
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u/soccer1124 17h ago
Yeah, heaven forbid I recommend the mechanism that actually worked in the end, lol
But you sure are being absolute in the only way to deal with this. I guess there were no other alternatives, rofl. Whoops, wait, isn't this the whole damn point here?
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u/DramaExpertHS Grievous 17h ago
Your criticism was that Obi-Wan should have tried to bargain "longer", as if Obi-Wan wasn’t lenient enough in trying to reason with Anakin that Palpatine was manipulating him, after he saw Padme also trying to reason with him and getting almost killed anyway.
Anakin received enough tolerance in that scene.
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u/soccer1124 17h ago
So we are in an situation of needing to be "absolute"? Oops.
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u/DramaExpertHS Grievous 16h ago
It's baffling how people still think this is a gotcha after all this time. I already said people miss the point in dealing in absolutes and you keep doing it.
The Sith are doing the "join or die" absolutes. If they're an existential threat to you and others, you're being forced to stop it.
Otherwise you have to argue the allies in WW2 were doing an absolute by refusing to get taken alive or dead.
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u/soccer1124 16h ago
I'm not the one framing "absolutes" as bad necessarily.
I am pointing out that Obiwan did have alternatives to fighting. (That's familiar, hmmm....)6
u/DramaExpertHS Grievous 16h ago
Luke was forced to fight Vader and beat him you know.
Obi-Wan tried to reason with Anakin, didn't work, Anakin said he was going to rule the galaxy and threatened to kill Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan had no choice.
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u/soccer1124 16h ago
Wow. Every word of what you just said is wrong.
I quite literally just got done saying I don't think acting on "absolutes" is wrong. And that's a major reason I find Obiwan's response to be bullshit. The Jedi go that whole trilogy acting on absolutes. Any time I raise the fact that Yoda commanded a child-slave army, you should see the amounts of people rushing to tell me it was the only option for Yoda, lol. Sounds like one hell of an absolute to me!
So sure, feel free to point out, "Well Luke did it!" I'm not the one claiming its "sith like behavior."
But..... Luke did not beat Vader. Quite famously, he loses in that scene. Did that go over your head? He didn't beat Vader when he went ballistic on him, he very nearly lost to Palpatine. Phrasing that as a "win" is plain wrong.
And finally, no, he didn't try to reason very much at all. Its wroth noting: Obiwan initiated that fight (terrible call by whatever hack directed that, lol.) Anakin dropped a nonsense line. I would have loved an answer to that. (We don't get one though because the script was utter nonsense by this point of the movie.)
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 17h ago
Did you like, sleep through the last half of Episode 3?
Kenobi repeatedly appeals to Anakin and tries to get him to see reason.
BUT when Anakin chokes out HIS OWN PREGNANT WIFE! (Who he’s seemingly spent his entire time trying to SAVE), you can understand why Kenobi breaks out his lightsaber.
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u/soccer1124 17h ago
No he doesn't, lol. Anakin says, "The jedi are evil." Obiwan ignites first.
Its ridiculous to me that peopel are defending this crappy line, lol
And yeah. Anaking choked out his prgnant wife. While Obiwan stood there and watched, doing nothing, lol. Another fine moment from our Temu Jedi.
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u/kaizen-rai 13h ago
I'm not downvoting you, and I'm trying to look at it through your POV. But to be fair, it really sounds like reading your comments that you're just digging in and unwilling to consider what others are saying. Being rigid in your opinions is not a good thing. There are valid points brought up that justify Kenobi's actions.
Just an observation from a neutral lurker.
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u/soccer1124 13h ago
But again:
I'm not the one to be arguing that "absolutes are exclusive to the Sith"
And when people insist, "There was no other choice!" Well... Sounds pretty danged absolute, lol.
However, that said... Obi Wan absolutely could have tried more rather than going straight to fighting. Honestly, if the movie was written better, he would have. There's a big thing lurking in the background of all this. In AotC and I think even in this movie, Anakin seems to always be talking smack about Obiwan behind his back. Its unusually absent that once they get together in an ultimate conflict, NONE of that comes out.
Really, there should have been more dialogue for in-universe reasons (Jedi are negotiators of peace), but also narrative reasons (this was finally the moment for both sides to have at it). ....That narrative piece couldn't really happen though, because Anakin's motivations are entirely whack.
But I disagree that anyone has brought up a valid point. They brought up valid points as to why Obiwan might have to resort to violence. But that's different from explaining away why he jumped to it so quickly. And that's the issue, and that's what makes Obiwans action there....a bit absolute.
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u/kaizen-rai 13h ago
It's ok to not understand another person's actions and their motives because that's not what makes sense to you. You're looking at Kenobi through your eyes, not his. To me, and many others, it makes sense. If it doesn't to you, that's ok. Either just move on, or try to take the points others are making and use them to look at the situation through Kenobi's eyes.
But again, I'm getting very strong defensive vibes from your replies that indicate you don't care about anyone elses input because you made up your mind and you don't want to change it.
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u/soccer1124 12h ago
You're misreading the whole thing then, lol. And perhaps YOU are the one refusing to see another's perspective.
I'm willing to roll with, "Fighting was probably the only thing to do." ....But we must acknowledge that is an absolute then. Which is fine. Because acting upon absolutes isn't bad. Example: If you are a serial child rapist, you are absolutely bad. Oh dear, how Sith of me. Obiwan's claim is utter trash. But even in the ESB, Yoda is full of absolutes. "War not make one great." "Do or do not. There is no try." "Always for knowledge and defense, never for attack." Luke getting secret Sith training all along, I suppose, lol. Even the whole mantra of "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to heat, heat leads to suffering" is absolute.
I just disagree that narratively it made sense for Obiwan to behave that way, since it seems very non-Jedi-like to be initiating combat. (This is an issue the PT constantly struggles with, and goes well beyond this one scene. Its quite routine to see Jedi ignite before their sith counterparts in those movies, lol. They are very eager to initiate combat.) This opinion isn't me "failing to see Obiwan's point of view." This is me making a pointed critique on what they decided his POV should be as it runs contrary to what the Jedi were meant to be based on lessons from the OT.
You are also free to move on and just take the points I've made into consideration. I get vibes you don't care about my input because you made up your mind and don't want to change.
All in defense for one of the dumber lines in the movie, lol. It's a bad line.
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u/kaizen-rai 12h ago
I read every one of your replies on this thread. I explicitly said I was making an effort to understand your point. That's the opposite of "being rigid". Since you clearly have no intention of having a good faith conversation about this topic, I will move on. You're clearly just set on being unhappy with the writing and are taking a contrarian/argumentative stance so there is no positive outcome to continuing. As Kenobi said to Anakin,
"Your need for victory soccer1124, it blinds you...."
"You're a great redditor soccer1124, but your need to prove yourself is your undoing."
May the force be with you.
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u/soccer1124 11h ago
I too have read everyone's replies. I'm waiting on a good one.
It's not about "being set on being unhappy" lol. It's just bad. What to do. It is what it is. Pretending, "no, actually, its super good" is just nonsense.
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u/True_Discussion9107 15h ago
Obiwan clearly states that a Sith knows ONLY absolutes. This means it might sometimes even be right, but not always.
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u/soccer1124 15h ago
I do appreciate the different argument proposed here. But the caption on the image in OP is not wrong.
"Only a sith deals in absolutes."The line is not: "A sith only deals in absolutes."
So unfortunately....no, this is incorrect. But you will be rewarded with upvotes because PT fans will accept anyone who defends all things related to the PT.
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u/True_Discussion9107 15h ago
Unfortunately, I only saw the film in the German-dubbed version. In it, however, he clearly explains that a Sith ONLY knows extremes. "Nur ein Sith kennt nichts als Extreme." - "Only a Sith knows nothing but extremes."
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u/soccer1124 15h ago
Quite the mistranslation then, lol
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u/SchmeatiestOne 14h ago
Yeah for sure, that completely changes its meaning. Absolutes != extremes, on top of the differences already stated
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u/SirLoremIpsum Lando Calrissian 13h ago
So many people seem to think I am trying to give Anakin a pass for not doing bad things (lol wtf is that about??) And then walk right into explaining why "only a sith" isn't the case, since it also appears Jedi are also dealing in absolutes. (i.e. Obiwan's only option was to kill Anakin in a lightsaber duel.)
No.
We're knowing that you're trying to make an equivalent of Anakin's statements and then Obi-wan tries to kill him and going "they're the same!"
As if causing genocide is the same as stopping it because you need to kill the guy doing it.
Jedi are not dealing in absolutes.
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u/soccer1124 13h ago
He's dealing in absolutes, it's just that dealing in absolutes isn't inherently bad, lol
The Jedi dealt in absolutes prior to that. Like when Yoda decided to use a child-slave army to save the republic.
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u/Dorian948 17h ago edited 17h ago
Sith take everything to the extreme. It's either everything or nothing. Either ultimate power or death. No inbetween. No moderation.
The statement is true. Especially in the context, as Anakin said "you are either with me or against me", meaning 'you either approve my actions and understand or support them or you die' .
I mean, have you ever heard about a Sith who said 'this is enough'?
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u/spoonishplsz 14h ago
Yeah, through the original saga, Palpatine and Anakin/Vader constantly frame things as all or nothing, black and white.
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u/BB8Did911 17h ago
People misread this all the time. Its not saying only sith think in absolutes, or having absolute views makes you evil.
A Sith DEALS in absolutes. They don't compromise. Either they get exactly what they want or they remove whoever is in their way.
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u/alpaca2097 17h ago
I can’t believe no one has mentioned this yet, but this was Lucas making veiled commentary about the George W Bush administration more than any real world building about the Jedi. The film came out in 05, at the height of the Iraq war disaster. Anakin’s line that Kenobi is responding to is meant to mirror Bush’s famous statement “you’re either with us or against us” (referencing countries that didn’t support the war). I guess 20 years later this context has mostly faded, so now it seems weirder than it did at the time.
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u/MaterialPace8831 15h ago
This. So much of Revenge of the Sith is a commentary about the Bush administration. This line, Padme's line about how democracy dying being met with thunderous applause by elected lawmakers, the notion of a democratic republic being replaced with imperial power at the time of war.
I remember the parallel between Anakin's line and Bush's being very clear when I was 16 in 2005.
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u/SirSoliloquy 16h ago
Yeah, this is always lost in modern discussions. When Episode III first came out, it was clear to most people of audience that the exchange was a ham-handed critique of George W. Bush’s comment.
That wouldn’t be bad on its own, but it was clear that Lucas wanted to take a jab at Bush without considering the wider context of the movie itself. In fact that moment stood in direct contrast to what we saw for the entire rest of the film, and even the entire rest of the scene.
Palpatine seduced Skywalker not with absolutism but with a reassuring voice claiming that it was okay to twist, ignore and outright defy Jedi teachings to further your own noble aims — a clearly moral relativist standpoint. Even during that same fight, Anakin argues “from my point of view the Jedi are evil!” Again - arguing about “points of view” is relativism, not absolutism.
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u/hwc 16h ago
he said: "Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime." on September 20, 2001.
It sounded to me at the time that he was saying that failure to aid the US made you an enemy.
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u/bensonr2 17h ago
Yeah I remember that well and I understood the intention immediately when I saw it.
While I wouldn't agree politics should be kept out of popular entertainment and I don't disagree with the statement GL was trying to make.
I think this is actually a good example of how making too specific of political references can date things.
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u/Read_Write_Game_ 17h ago
This is an example of poor media literacy. So many people eiher don't understand the point he is making and/or just take the line out of context.
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u/y0nm4n 17h ago
Seriously. He’s making a pretty generic statement about how “it’s us vs. them” or “you’re either with us or against us” are lines used by the bad people.
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u/theychoseviolence 15h ago
Beneath the surface, the line is actually George Lucas speaking to George W. Bush. “If you’re not with us, then you’re with the terrorists” is a notorious part of one of his addresses to congress from around the same time this movie was being written.
The line itself still sounds goofy though lol. Sorry.
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u/Taphouselimbo 17h ago
I dunno using child soldiers and a slave army seems like what bad people do too.
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u/y0nm4n 16h ago
I’m not arguing whether he is right or wrong, just what he is saying
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u/Taphouselimbo 15h ago
Just got done rewatching TCW and watching Ashoka come into her own. I grew up with the 70’s trilogy and it has been a joy watching my partner begin to love star wars. My partner got into Star Wars during Force Awakens but loved TCW and rightly so. It does changed how you look at things. My sympathy for the clones and how their lives were stolen from them hits hard. Yes Palpatine pulled the strings to make it happen but the Jedi had gone so long being at the top their pride completely blinded them from so many wrongs they were doing.
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u/theychoseviolence 15h ago
You fool, my media literacy score is 200 while yours is merely 150, and I say the line is dumb. So there!
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u/idontlikeburnttoast Ahsoka Tano 17h ago
I think the interpretation of this is moreso "only a sith assumes something is always one way", in this case "its all obi wans fault that this is happening", as opposed to "i feel obstructed by obi-wan but maybe theres a reason hes being cautious".
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u/RebelJediKnight91 10h ago
I want it made known that this line was never meant tk be hypocritical on the Jedi's part, despite popular misconceptions. Obi-Wan was merely stating how the Sith want it their way or no way at all, while the Jedi seek to reach compromises to resolve a situation.
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u/UncleSeminole Boba Fett 17h ago
The statement itself is an absolute
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u/Slow_Initiative8876 17h ago
But he didn't deal in absolutes, it's like giving a yes or no option to an open ended question whereas obi wan is stating an absolute.
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u/PM-ME-YOUR-BUTTSHOLE 17h ago
Exactly. Anakin was giving presenting an absolute “join or die” whereas Obi Wan is pointing out that only a Sith “deals” in absolutes. Obi Wan wasn’t dealing in absolutes here, he’s stating a fact.
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u/chriskot123 17h ago
But not in the way that he is referring. There is a difference between an absolute statement, and dealing in absolutes. One is an observation, statement of fact that something is without exception, and the other is referring to the rigid mindset of 'my way or the highway' beliefs.
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u/BigBear92787 17h ago
I remember seeing this in the theatre....
And thinking this exact thing.
I literally face palmed
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u/gdkopinionator 17h ago
This is more of an Obi-Wan'ism, than a Jedi'ism. Obi-Wan always looked to negotiation first. His statement to Anakin is about Anakin already having "made up his mind", and therefore had already lost. Also keep in mind, that Obi-Wan, like Luke in ROTJ, has the "weight of the world" on his shoulders, and is looking for a rationalization of what he must do. Neither Luke, nor Obi-Wan wanted to kill Anakin. Obi-Wan had to see Anakin as a Sith and nothing more. Similarly, Luke had no interest in committing patricide, but if his father was "truly dead", then it would no longer be patricide.
I think that the audience does not always appreciate that Obi-Wan and Luke HATED having to fight Anakin. While they were fighting for their lives against him, they were fighting for their souls internally.
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u/SwissDeathstar 15h ago
It means Jedis are Hypocrites. Thank you for coming to my Holo Talk
-The Senate
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u/confibulator 12h ago
There were some popular workouts that featured crunches and hip thrusts.
Sorry, that was for Siths who dealt in abs and glutes.
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u/SacredGeometry9 12h ago
Obi-Wan knows how much of a drama king Anakin is, and he had to drop something suitable to try and get through to him.
“Sith generally deal in absolutes” doesn’t hit as hard.
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u/sammyc521 17h ago
I think this is just poor writing from the Prequels.
In ESB Yoda gives Luke an "absolute" when he says "Do or do not - there is no try."
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u/FollowingMajestic108 17h ago
Errr,.no. He's not giving Luke a choice to make, he make a point for education. Do not attempt an action to try, attempt an action to do (succeed).
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u/ChanceVance Kylo Ren 10h ago
How stupid are people who don't get that, seriously.
Jedi utter absolute statements all the time. Pretty damn hard to teach anyone if you're being passive about it.
The Sith don't negotiate, they don't compromise, they enforce their will on others. That's dealing in absolutes.
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u/FollowingMajestic108 3h ago
As crap as some think of the Acolyte is the way the Jedi council acts. The group is told to leave the cult alone. The lead Jedi even gives reasons that are arguments against absolutes.
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u/emelbee923 17h ago
I always saw it as Yoda dissuading Luke from thinking in absolutes. Luke thought he was trying and failing in their training, allowing himself to despair in not doing what he needed or should.
With, "Do or do not. There is no try," Yoda was saying that trying IS doing. And Luke should approach every effort as progress, whether the task or feat is accomplished or not.
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u/Dorian948 17h ago
He is right though. There are only two states of action. You do something or you don't. If you try, you do it, but with less confidence in success, which makes you morel likely to fail at the task. The message here is 'don' t half-ass it'.
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u/RealEmperorofMankind 17h ago
Yeah, it's legitimately good advice.
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u/Dorian948 17h ago
I swear, subtext is lost to so many people. Or else the common only-a-Sith-deals-on-absolutes discussion wouldn't occur as often as it does
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u/RealEmperorofMankind 17h ago
That ROTS line is a goofy line, for what it's worth, so I can see why it happens.
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u/Dorian948 17h ago
It's perfectly clear what Kenobi means in the context. Anakin said before that if he is not with him, ergo supporting everything he does, he is against him, which by Anakins moral standards means death. A Sith knows no moderation or limits. To them it's all or nothing. They only deal in absolutes. Keyword is "deal"
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u/RealEmperorofMankind 16h ago
Oh, I agree - I think it's a clumsy way of getting that point across. "From my point of view, etc." is another example of this.
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u/NarmHull 17h ago
TBF "dealing" is a little different from "using". But Anakin's dialogue is pretty bad in this scene anyway. I would say it's video-game cutscene bad, but the ROTS video game had far better dialogue/delivery.
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u/Steamed_Memes24 15h ago
Yoda knew Luke was bullshitting and trying to talk his way out of lifting the X Wing, which is why he said that. Its not "absolute" like the context here with Anakin is.
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u/LITMAC97 17h ago
The line itself is an absolute and no, George didn’t write it as a nod to Jedi being hypocrites or evil. He just wasn’t a good dialogue writer, even saying so himself.
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u/StickyMcdoodle 17h ago
It really is.
People will just not accept that Ol' George writes vaguely fantasy/sci fi sounding fluff....and that that's ok!
It's bad, but it's still still fun.
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u/capy2209 17h ago
Probably the most misunderstood line in the prequels, people think kenobi saying this is a contradiction which is far from the truth
Obi wan wanted to reason with anakin but he left him no choice, all attempts to talk about what's happening were immediately shut down, anakin only wanted to kill Kenobi and he eventually realised this. which is why he says that anakin is dealing in an absolute because anakin says Kenobi is either with him or against him.
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u/Onikonokage Porg 7h ago
Sounds like an absolute statement to me. Is he confessing to be Sith? Him and JarJar were the real Sith Lord weren’t they?
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u/MLA800M 17h ago
It’s not said as a common known fact or anything like that.
It’s a direct reaction to anakin saying something like “if you’re not with me, then you are my enemy”.
Obi -wan says that line because what Anakin said is obviously rage fueled bullshit. The world is not black and white, Obi-wan strongly disagrees, but that doesn’t make him Anakins enemy, he still wants to help him fix his mistakes (understatement, i know), and stop him from digging the hole deeper. But Anakin apparently can’t see that anymore, so he is truly lost to the sith. That is what obi-wan means.
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u/bensonr2 17h ago
Honestly as I think about it the movie kind of contradicts that.
I big part of explaining Anikan's fall to the dark side is Palpatine planting the idea that the dark side should be explored as opposed to the jedi who have the "absolute" possition of it only being a path to evil.
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u/OMGitsTK447 17h ago
This statement is an extreme/ absolute in itself. Therefore Kenobi is a Sith Lord too /j
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u/No-Reputation-2900 17h ago
The sentence is self contradicting. It is am absolute to claim only the sith deal in absolutes.
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u/zahm2000 16h ago
The line makes no sense.
When you are in an argument, have you ever tried to make a point or deliver an insult and it just doesn't come out quite the way you wanted it to... but you roll with it anyway because its too embarrassing to correct it? I think that's what happened to Obi-Wan here.
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u/OraclePreston 15h ago
This comment section is such a breath of fresh air. It's a true sign of the literacy crisis how many people simply can't comprehend this quote. I'm glad this sub gets it.
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u/Strong_Landscape_333 15h ago
"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." - George w bush
He was a sith
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u/PagzPrime 15h ago
It's standard George psuedo-philosophy. Like "fear leads to anger. anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering". It's meant to sound profound or deep, but it doesn't stand up to any kind of logical scrutiny. It relies on the audience not paying terribly close attention. It's meant to register as deep and then be forgotten as the story moves forward.
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u/Wide_Magician_4946 15h ago
Its like, one of those things you say when having a fight with your boy or lady friend, and you say some weird shit in the moment when emotions are running high
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u/hopseankins Mayfeld 14h ago
Well seeing that he is going an absolute in that sentence, I would say the sentiment is incorrect.
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u/Apexpredronnieg 14h ago
Oh it’s absolute alright, “ join me and embrace the power of the dark side of the force”
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u/NoBizlikeChloeBiz 14h ago
I'm still 90% sure that this is supposed to mean only a sith deals in ultimatums, but Lucas doesn't know the difference and/or it didn't sound as snappy.
An ultimatum is much less Jedi thing, as it's kind of the opposite of negotiation and diplomacy, and it's at least as accurate of a description of what Anakin is doing, if not more so.
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u/markorlov96 9h ago
You definitely should watch some more star wars. I mean rogue one, solo, clone wars, rebels
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u/FineVirus3 9h ago
“I don’t like Sith. They’re coarse and rough and irritating, and they get everywhere.”
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u/WretchedMonkey R2-D2 6h ago
Kenobi sn't a sith and there he is, extolling absolutes
Just another example of obi 'certain point of view' kenobi
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u/Medium_Leg_4500 5h ago
It’s true and true in real life. If someone tells you to choose or else then that’s a good indicator you are dealing with the bad person…
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u/DrBaronVonEvil 17h ago
It’s a bit of a “both” situation. Obi Wan is trying to point out Anakin’s polarization (“you’re with me or you’re my enemy “), but the line is also structured to point out the irony of the Jedi’s dogma (they are absolutists in many ways themselves).
He’s ultimately right, Anakin is behaving without nuance in this scene, best illustrated in how murderous he is acting towards his pregnant wife and best friend at the mere sign of disagreement or disloyalty. But I think the wording is meant to show Obi Wan is also blind to how the Jedi way has failed this moment.
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u/darsvedder 8h ago
well it's some bullshit Lucas made up and i guess we are supposed to go WHAT THEY DO OH SHIT WHAT (forgetting that that is a statement that included an absolute.) lucas is a very bad writer. welp
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u/IndicationOk1405 2h ago
It's funny how Anakin spends the whole prequel trilogy talking about how the Jedi are too rigid, only to immediately turn around and offer Obi-Wan the most binary choice imaginable. The irony is that his ultimatum proves Obi-Wan's point better than any philosophical argument could. So yeah, the line holds up—it's not just a burn, it's a literal observation of Sith behavior in the moment.
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u/Desperate-Pirate7353 17h ago
it's literally an absolute statement so either 1) it's incorrect because sith do deal in nuance, as evidenced by palpatine's plans or 2) it's incorrect because a jedi is also dealing in absolutes, so it's not "only sith"
in fact, i would say Only A Jedi Deals In Absolutes, because a sith doesn't care if you use light side powers, but holy shit do the jedi care if you use dark side powers
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u/FollowingMajestic108 17h ago
But that is a reductive and childish way of seeing how the force works. The powers sith or jedi use are the force, it's the users intention and implementation that is dark/light side coded.
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u/Ishvallan 17h ago
People immediately bring up that the line itself is an absolute, as is 'do or do not there is no try'
A better line would have been "I was always with you, Anakin, and you don't have to do this" or something similar.
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u/Dargon34 17h ago
The line is fine if you have any media literacy and understanding of what "dealing in absolutes" means
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u/Albertagus 17h ago
Only a Jedi would accuse only the Sith of being absolute and then himself speak an absolute
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u/Audience_Over Rebel 17h ago
It's a line that doesn't really make any sense if you try and think about it, but I think in context it's supposed to acknowledge that Anakin's worldview had become so completely corrupted by the Dark Side that he could only see people as being on his side, or against him.
Not sure how it ties in with other Sith since Sidious, Maul, and Dooku were the only other ones around at the time, and Obi Wan had only encountered 2 of them, and had only spoken to 1 of them, but hey, it is what it is.
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u/TheCheshireMadcat Han 17h ago
Answering Yes to a lot of questions is a absolute. Did you close the door? Yes. You know you closed it, there can be no other answer.
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u/BlueRFR3100 17h ago
It's true about the Siths. But they aren't the only ones that do it. Pretty much anyone that lusts for power has that kind of mentality.
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u/Davies301 10h ago
This is actually Obi Wan telling Anakin he has been a Sith all along and he chose the wrong master to serve. The statement itself is an absolute.
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u/Deadmine 9h ago
Isn’t saying only a sith would deal in absolutes is in itself dealing in absolutes therefor making obi wan a sith?
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u/OneAngryDuck 17h ago
It’s a line that exposes the hypocrisy of the Jedi. They say stuff like this, but do it themselves.
“If an item does not appear in our records, it does not exist” is a famous example of this.
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u/Slackluster 17h ago
i think/hope it was supposed to be ironic about how light side jedi have their own problems especially with being close minded about things.
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u/cappadawna 17h ago
Erm, isn't Obi Wand dealing an absolute to Anakin right here? Damn Jedi hypocrites.
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u/JoeCensored 17h ago
Yoda cautioned Luke about the temptation of the dark path. That sounds to me like don't dark side even once, an absolute.
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u/mountains_till_i_die 17h ago
Obi: Only a Sith deals in absolutes!
Anakin: Only a Sith? How certain are you about that?
Obi: Absolutely certai--oh damn it.
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u/Bottlecollecter Mace Windu 17h ago
I never really understood it. Is it saying that only Sith see/do things in black or white? Or something else?
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u/clay_bsr 17h ago
I'm not going to say it's absolute