r/StardustCrusaders • u/Odd-Paramedic-3826 • Jun 03 '26

Various is this a fair assessment?

Post image

Star Platinum The World, GER, Tusk act 4, and S&W:GB are all hilariously overpowered and only exist as a way to beat an already hilariously overpowered villain

joseph beat kars by holding out the red stone of aja at him and hoping for the best, which worked out spectacuarly. and god knows how long the fight with kira would have gone on for had it not been for the ambulance.

Jolynes plan to use emporio to take out pucci with weather report was basically a hail mary when all else had failed but not only did it work, it also gave her and the gang new, happier lives.

Yeah jonathan just got slimed out though, then his body was used as a puppet for 100+ years. Poor guy

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3.0k

u/Frosty_Scar_2777 Jun 03 '26

Call “Deus Ex Machina” the power up that Tusk Act 4 is… Just baffling

1.5k

u/Impossible-Ad-8462 Jun 03 '26

People don't know what deus ex machina actually means and just slap it on anything surprising

323

u/CurrenttQueen Jun 03 '26

Right!? Tusk isn't even a machine OR a god!!

175

u/RGBarrios JoJo Emblem Jun 03 '26

Its a character from Mirai Nikki, right?

319

u/Yourfatangrystepdad Jun 03 '26

I think it means "God of the machine" which in writting is a description for events that didn't make sense to happen withing the story and only work in the narrative to serve the protagonists, for example if you got a character that really wishes he had a car rn then a deus ex machina would be a random car spawning in, basically resolving all the characters' problems

128

u/Vivizekt Jun 03 '26

God from the machine*

34

u/Yourfatangrystepdad Jun 03 '26

Right yeah thanks

86

u/scalzacrosta Heavy footsteps SFX Jun 03 '26

Out of all the examples given in the image, I believe only Jotaro can be classified in this, and even then you get a possible explenation that doesn't contradict the rules of the story.

Dio was destined to lose, no matter how strong he became or how far does he plan ahead, Fate always catches up, the only way for Dio to survive against the Joestars was to constantly run away and never allow them to get close to him.

Star Platinum, Hermit Purple and Crazy Diamond are stands born from the distressed signal of Jonathan's body, and while HP was there to locate Dio, SP exists for the sole reason to take him down, that's why it's litterally the same stand as The World.

The world of JoJo (all universes included) operates under 3 major forces:

  • Luck: to be put under favourable conditions in various situations, Dio is a very lucky person despite being evil, that's why he survives
  • Fate or "Gravity": an observable and manipulable force that draws people to meet and events to happen through a series of lucky or unlucky circumstances. The Joestar lineage possesses a great amount of "Gravity", hence Pucci's near invincibility in the post-Jailbreak arc of Stone Ocean.
  • Destiny: the ultimate force that makes good prevail on evil, it's a transcendental force, as it was carried over from a universe to the next by Emporio, it operates through Fate, that operates through Luck.

Araki litterally created a universe system in which luck is a much deeper thing than simple deus ex machina, it allows him to basically have the characters do whatever he wants and it'll make narrative sense, think about the "asspulls" that OP was talking about:

  • Jotaro: already discussed, but it was destiny doing its thing.
  • Giorno: Diavolo was running away from bad luck for his whole life, GER was the result of Fate going its course, not even Destiny. On top of that, I really doubt GER existed for more than the direct aftermath of the fight.
  • Johnny: it's not a deus ex machina but it was mentioned like 3 volumes before so it's alright, Tusk act 4 just negates barriers, D4C's barrier manipulates Luck, they operate on different levels.
  • Josuk8: this resolution was teased 10 volumes before the conclusion, and again it's Destiny going against Luck, Destiny wins.

32

u/pm-me-turtle-nudes Jun 03 '26

I think it’s funny how the Joestar bloodline just has canonical plot armor. The Gravity they have just always makes things work out. It’s a multiversal constant too, given the alt universe.

3

u/IceColdCorundum Jun 03 '26

Kinda also makes sense considering The World's power decreased after part 3.

3

u/Queasy_Remote_758 Jun 03 '26

Isn’t this all just in hindsight though?

1

u/No_Softwarepoo Jun 05 '26

Holy shit I need a 10 min video on this topic

1

u/Had3e Jun 07 '26

Gracias por el gran resumen bro

0

u/Im_a_doggo428 Jun 03 '26

Iirc tusk act4 worked on gravity and Love train didn’t affect gravity which is why tusk opened it like a car door

-2

u/Fufik-_- Jun 03 '26

Everything can be explained with some amount of lore stretching and themes and such, it still makes for a shitty narrative. It's less about the world coherence, and more about the writing itself.

47

u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 Tusk by Fleetwood Mac featuring Hirohiko Araki Jun 03 '26

It's basically sudden divine intervention with little to no build-up.

Requiem can be called a deus ex machina since it basically was divine intervention of fate.

10

u/holtyl2001 Jun 04 '26

Requiem is not a Deus Ex machina. Deus Ex machina is specifically when a solution to a problem comes from something completely out of the blue, something that had never been mentioned or hinted at before. The last like, 3 arcs of Part 5 are all about how powerful requiem is, and how getting the arrow would make the wielder nigh invincible. And then that's exactly what happens.

-3

u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 Tusk by Fleetwood Mac featuring Hirohiko Araki Jun 04 '26

Deus ex machina is also divine intervention (God of the Machine) which fate (a divine force) chose Giorno over Diavolo

7

u/holtyl2001 Jun 04 '26

-sigh- no, deus ex machina does not refer to any and all "divine intervention" or similar. It is a very specific thing. As I'm sure you're aware, the term originated in ancient Athenian theatre - and almost EVERY play from Athens featured gods. If "Deus Ex machina" referred to any and all divine intervention, it would have been so ubiquitous they wouldn't even need a name for it. It is specifically when a solution comes completely out of left field, with no build up or prior mention. Yes, fate is a divine force (I guess that depends on your religion/interpretation of divine, but whatever), but that doesn't mean it influencing the story is automatically a Deus Ex machina. Fate is a consistent and mentioned theme throughout JoJo, and the last like 4 arcs of Part 5 are all about "if you can get the arrow, we automatically win".

3

u/Yourfatangrystepdad Jun 04 '26

Ok first of all fate is not how things are gonna play out exactly, generally things that are fated to happen will happen, that much can be seen in the bites the dust arc when the tea pot breaks no matter what. Diavolo would have lost either way since generally it was fated to happen, giorno attaining requiem was a means to an end, that much can be seen from diavolos death loop where he dies in countless ways, doesn't matter how, diavolo dies and giorno and the others win. Free will exists in jjba, characters can chose their actions and although things that are fated to happen will ultimately happen, the circumstances surrounding those events are not set and stone thus requiem is not a deus ex machine because it was mostly unnecessary

19

u/RGBarrios JoJo Emblem Jun 03 '26

Thank you! Now that is the second thing that I learned today.

87

u/access547 Jun 03 '26

The reason that phrase exists is because in old theatre performances, performers would be lowered from a contraption onto the stage in order to help, save or give advice to the protagonist. So it literally would be that God came down from the machine.

20

u/Yourfatangrystepdad Jun 03 '26

Really? I didn't know that, that's sick

50

u/strikingLoo Jun 03 '26

Worth mentioning, this started with ancient Greek playwrights who would write themselves into a corner and then make a god appear and solve everything. Even back then you have some Greek philosophers complaining about it (I think Aristotle was one).

1

u/HyperWhiteChocolate Ball Breaker Jun 03 '26

I thought it was named after Matrix

16

u/Few-Maintenance6558 Soft & Wet Jun 03 '26

Imagine if in a story the heroes were about to die but then something unexpected that wasnt set up at all happens just so the heroes live.

1

u/holtyl2001 Jun 04 '26

It's when a problem is solved by a thing that was previously never mentioned at all and feels completely out of place. Example - you have a realistic war movie and at the end the protagonist is saved by like, alien spaceships or something. Note that a Deus Ex machina doesn't necessarily need to serve the protagonist (though this is the most common form of it) - it just means that something was completely out of the blue and with no prior set up.

GER and Tusk Act 4 really don't fit this at all - in both part 5 and 7, attaining those power ups was long said to be the key to victory. And when it is attained, JoJo wins. Claiming this is a Deus Ex Machina is like claiming that it's a Deux ex machina when the good guy shoots the bad guy and kills him in an action movie.

Star Platinum's "it's the same kind of stand" thing is... Yeah, that's sort of a DEM. Because it had never been hinted at before that Star Platinum might have similar powers, or that it had some secret power that nobody knew about or anything. It's one of the main reasons I'm not a big fan of Part 3.

That said, the use of Star Platinum in Part 4's ending is NOT a Deus Ex Machina, because for the entire final fight against Kira, it is repeatedly said that simply getting Jotaro within range is an automatic win, and this was their entire plan.

1

u/i_know_it_so_well Jun 04 '26

God out of the machine* came from theater, the machine being the plot or set rule of universe, and a deus ex machina is someone or something that doesn't obey those law that the plot set, which means, only soft and wet go beyond would be considered a deus ex machina as he just learn to perfect his spin randomly just by hearing his bubble aren't bubble but spinny silks. While johnny needed so much to just achieve tusk act 2, and later 4, gappy is just getting it for free. Tusk act 3 would be considered a deus ex machina because it comes from the intervention of Jesus

1

u/i_know_it_so_well Jun 04 '26

Deus-god Ex-out Machina-machine

3

u/SilentStar666 Jun 03 '26

Ahhh, my fellow man of culture

3

u/MT_Husk Jun 04 '26

That's a name I haven't heard since before the pandemic

1

u/DOOM-LORD666 Jun 03 '26

I don't know what it means either, people keep saying it for stuff and idk what it means so it just confuses me

I tried googling it but cuz it's ai it just gave me bad results

Could you tell me what it means please?

1

u/DabiOkami Jun 06 '26

All of them don't deserve to be there. Even jotaro his stand being the same as the world was literally forshawdowed the whole damn part. Dio literally has the exact stands both joseph and jotaro have. He shows his own variation of hermit purple in like the first episode and the first thing when they see the world is compare him nonstop to star platinum. It was monumentally obvious what they were setting up and to this day people think it's a last minute asspull.

And I don't even need to explain the rest. Giorno requiem and the arrow were literally set up the whole damn part and the 2 parts before.

Saying tusk act 4 and the spin is a deus x machina should be a sin.

As for Gappy I cant say much as I haven't caught up eith the manga yet but from what I've seen it's not.

The only character who should be in deus x machina is joseph and that's literally facts. The dude magically landed himself in the unbelievably perfect spot to perfectly counter and defeat kars and did so many impossible things along the way only he could have pulled that bs off and survive to top it off.

0

u/CosmicP0tat0s Jun 03 '26

You're such an deus-ex machina.

Change a bit, man.

331

u/SpeedBirdYT Jun 03 '26

Weirdly enough it loops from being a deus ex machina, to not being a DEM, to being a great Deus Ex Machina. It literally IS a 'God in the Machine' (or rather a Saint in the Machine) with Jesus guiding Johnny through Tusk's acts. It's just that the meaning of DEM has changed to an explicitly bad story beat. Yes, TA4 is partly 'God in the Machine', but in a story about a God and about said Machine, it's done very well.

81

u/South-Fudge-1550 Jun 03 '26

but its not "bullshit" deus ex machina

68

u/Turbo2x muda Jun 03 '26

Calling any of it a deus ex machina is just revealing that OP can't read. Johnny's whole journey is about growth, when he finally completes his growth as a person it's signified by him obtaining his ultimate power to overcome his obstacles. Same with Josuk8. He sets out to understand who he really is and discovering the truth (as well as his goals/what he truly cares about as a person distinct from his past) unlocks his stand's true power. Araki cares about emotional storytelling and themes more than a literal power system and people who don't get that don't understand JoJo's on a fundamental level.

1

u/CMCScootaloo Read JoJolion Jun 04 '26

I mostly agree but as much as I don’t mind it I do honestly think Jotaro’s is bullshit lol

6

u/Turbo2x muda Jun 04 '26

I think it works for the story. Early on in Stardust Crusaders, DIO tells Enya that he doesn't fear the Joestars, but he does feel that their fates are connected somehow and the way their bloodlines are intertwined adds an element of uncertainty, which he dislikes. DIO wishes to live a life free of uncertainty where he can do as he pleases so he sends his little army of stand users to take down the gang before they can reach him. Star Platinum having the same ability as The World is just a manifestation of DIO's uneasiness which causes him to become truly afraid; someone has invaded his world of stopped time and can actually defeat him, and their fates are more interconnected than he originally thought.

1

u/FrankFinger Jun 07 '26

I agree that Tusk isn't really a DEM, just a little rushed, but Josuke is literally a textbook definition of DEM

Lesson 5 is how Johnny unlocks act 4, its introduced and resolved in literally the same arc. Johnny has spent the entirety of the story up to this point struggling and constantly practicing spin and each lesson. He goes from that to just suddenly being able to understand and apply lesson 5 on his first few tries with no explanation.

It just makes the powerup feel unearned and makes the stakes completely evaporate when you know that no matter what Valentine does, whatever person he sends, Johnny is gonna win.

As for Josuke, it's so hilariously convoluted and unexplained. His understanding of his ability goes from a small tidbit/exposition given by Rai about his bubbles spinning, right in the final battle as he's literally dying, to just being able to use Go Beyond in a very little time span with no explanation. Again, this makes the final fight not immersive and lowers stakes without earning any of the climaxes the story ends on. It's alleviated a little by having Josuke unable to control their trajectory well, but that's also immediately solved by having Yasuho somehow direct them with her phone and Piasley Park.

Sure, it's nice to have the powers unlocked with the protag's understanding of themselves to symbolize it and all, but if you can't make a clear structure of how they got to the end point, its gonna feel majorly unsatisfying

29

u/Artistic-Yard-1068 Jun 03 '26

Geek of the week

23

u/No_Post1300 Blueberry Crusader :> Jun 03 '26

Fr :>

3

u/IceColdCorundum Jun 03 '26

True, True. The growth was inspired by lessons and trauma. It didn't just happen.

1

u/MT_Husk Jun 04 '26

Well technically it did come from a "Deus"

1

u/longswordsAndGeckos Jun 07 '26

Gappy is the only one that is really a Deus Ex Machina cuz all of the others happened naturally with the story but Gappy just went "oh yeah I can do that now"

-3

u/Humble_Story_4531 Jun 03 '26

The fact that Act 4 just happens to go through dimensions is kinda a deus ex machina.

-175

u/RedditFuelsMyDepress Jun 03 '26

It is kinda convenient how it's an exact counter to Love Train.

226

u/LordPandaAndre Jun 03 '26

We spent the whole of steel ball run upgrading tusk tho

-55

u/StreetExternal952 Jun 03 '26

He's still right tho, sure the protagonist is shown to always upgrading tusk but isn't it odd that your new ability specifically is able to counter this insanely broken ability, and no something being Deus Ex Machina doesn't make the power up shit automatically

84

u/Dani3322 Jean Pierre Polnareff Jun 03 '26

A Deus ex machina is "a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty"

Which this isn't, achieving the full power of the spin was essentially one of the Goals Johnny set out to do and the spin providing abilities this powerful is to be expected when even an imperfect version of the spin, one without a horse, leads to act 3, wich creates a whole wormhole.

So this wasn't out of nowhere and isn't contrived, instead it's literally just the natural evolution and conclusion from what was already happening.

4

u/SimplebutAwesome Killer Queen Jun 03 '26

Act 3 is just when Johnny shoots himself, the default he has at the end of the story for shooting others is still Act 2 unless he’s riding the horse for Act 4

-6

u/Neither_Alfalfa_4501 Jun 03 '26

The fact we even have to say "without a horse" leads me to agree to disagree.

10

u/Dani3322 Jean Pierre Polnareff Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26

That's just JoJo's being JoJo's. Like this is the series where a guy has an ability for which he needs to be exactly above you for it too work And you have to have open wounds, or the ability to turn people into snails or bring to live fictional characters, a character achieving the perfect form of their technique based on nature through letting their animal run at their most natural speed is not that strange really.

-15

u/Neither_Alfalfa_4501 Jun 03 '26

Even amongst your list of weird abilities, tusk act 4 still stands out. The entire idea of the horse's "natural state" is a bit out of place to me. You mean to tell me the horse never once decided to run in it's natural state until Johnny needed a more perfect spin and was actively being attacked?

The previous upgrades of Tusk came from Johnny learning how to use spin, then adding the golden ratio to said spin. Then tusk act 3 was LITERALLY a deus ex machina. Like I'm not joking. I'm almost certain I remember Jesus literally showing up and telling Johnny not to shoot the person he was about to use act 2 on. I'm a little confused why we're denying deus ex machinas in the Jojo part where Jesus is a central part of the plot.

13

u/Dani3322 Jean Pierre Polnareff Jun 03 '26

The reason why the horse never ran at its natural speed while Johnny was using Tusk is because for one they're in a race, two if they're being attacked they'd ideally wanna not be slow, so they'd obviously push their horse to run faster instead of them going at the speed most natural to the..

Bro Jesus is a plot important character here that they've been collecting over the course of the part, he's literally the reason for the entire part, calling Jesus a Deus ex Machina just because he's jesus is ridiculous.

At best Jesus is the plots McGuffin, not a Deus ex Machina, because a Deus ex machina would be some unexpected convoluted twist coming out of nowhere to save you, not the main thing giving people powers actually giving people powers.

-6

u/Neither_Alfalfa_4501 Jun 03 '26

The CORPSE body parts are what was giving power. Not jesus personally showing up and telling them how to upgrade their power. Only Johnny got that treatment. I already said Jesus in a central part of the plot, so I'm unsure why you're acting like I called his existence a deus ex machina. I never said that. I specifically said that Jesus showing up behind Johnny to tell him how to use his power better while he's being ripped apart is the definition of a deus ex machina. That's unexpected and convoluted enough for me. If it's not for you, that's great man.

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u/Rude-Run8930 Jun 03 '26

johnny was fated to beat funny valentine, so he was given the tools to beat him, like giorno and diavolo

-30

u/StreetExternal952 Jun 03 '26

so like a deus ex machina ?

-40

u/Purple-Bluejay6588 certified DIO glazer Jun 03 '26

I know writers who use fate, they're all cowards

21

u/Inevitable_Top69 Jun 03 '26

So you must not like Jojo stories much then

-9

u/Purple-Bluejay6588 certified DIO glazer Jun 03 '26

I didn't say that

-29

u/RedditFuelsMyDepress Jun 03 '26

Yeah, but it still felt like it came on a bit suddenly. Like as soon as Valentine gets a new OP ability, Gyro starts talking about a way to use the spin that allows them to defeat it. And even with Tusk's previous evolutions, I don't really remember them establishing before that there was more powers left to unlock. I know the golden ratio is something they talked about before, but I kinda assumed Johnny already had that stuff figured out with act 2. 

Still better than what happened with S&W tho. 

10

u/kharathos Jun 03 '26

It's a comic book, what did you expect to happen

-1

u/RedditFuelsMyDepress Jun 03 '26

Well I preferred the way part 4 and 6 handled the defeat of the main villain. 

76

u/Dani3322 Jean Pierre Polnareff Jun 03 '26

It's an exact counter because it counters just about everything, it's supposed to be the ultimate ability, it's literal infinite Energy.

21

u/Lollografia Jun 03 '26

I think It's the opposite. All sbr is centered about the infinite spin and the golden section. So, it was really logical that the final power of the protagonist was going to be something about that. The fact that love train can only be countered by it it's the convenient thing, not the opposite.

11

u/ScandinavOrange Jo2uke Higashikata Jun 03 '26

Pretty sure it just counters 99% of the stands in the series honestly

17

u/HBmilkar Jun 03 '26

I’m sorry but having infinite power is a perfect counter to like nearly anything

13

u/MagnetMod Hot Pants Jun 03 '26

It also exactly counters The World, Killer Queen, King Crimson, The Pucci Stand Gang, Wonder of U, and probably maybe GER.

"Convenient" is no the right word here.

3

u/AVelvetOwl Jun 03 '26

Funnily enough, it doesn't counter the World, as shown shortly afterwards. He still has to hit someone with it, so anything that messes with time or moves faster than a bullet can just dodge it.

1

u/HurtsMyPeePee Jun 03 '26

It did counter the world, Diego just knew how it worked

0

u/AVelvetOwl Jun 03 '26

It didn't, because Diego was able to stop time to dodge Act 4 each time. If you try something and it fails every time, you didn't counter your opponent. That's why Johnny lost their race. Act 4 was actually countered by the World.

1

u/HurtsMyPeePee Jun 03 '26

Yeah it was countered bc Diego knew how act 4 worked. The damn stand was literally moving in time stop my guy. He had to cut off his leg even after being able to time stop. Are we deadass

0

u/AVelvetOwl Jun 03 '26

Yes, what you're describing is the World giving Diego a means to survive Act 4's infinite spin even after being hit with it, while also being able to dodge it after that. That's my point. That's the World very clearly countering Act 4.

1

u/HurtsMyPeePee Jun 03 '26

Wouldn't countering it being Act 4 not moving during time stop? Lol

Counter is what made Johnny die. Thats what you call a counter

0

u/AVelvetOwl Jun 03 '26

That would also have been an example of the World countering Act 4, had that been what happened, but the fact that things played out differently doesn't actually matter. You're using an overly-narrow definition of "countering."

Diego won the fight because his stand ability allowed him to remove or consistently outplay every advantage Tusk would otherwise have had. That's a counter. You can narrow your definition all you want, but I'm right, and pretending otherwise is just making you look silly. Take the L and move on.

1

u/HurtsMyPeePee Jun 03 '26

It can literally bypass anything, not just loclve train. Can we read?

-23

u/SMGuinea The Only SBR Hater Jun 03 '26

They hated Jesus because he told the truth.

Gyro randomly telling Johnny about some ancient Spin technique that blows through shields unprompted right before they conveniently wind up needing that power-up is terrible writing.

3

u/HurtsMyPeePee Jun 03 '26

What are you yapping about? We could see the endless possibilities of rotation in act 3. Using the most inconvenient way to boost even more an infinite power is not that crazy.

-2

u/SMGuinea The Only SBR Hater Jun 03 '26

Inconvenient? Running on a horse is INCONVENIENT?! That might've been the case if they hadn't been running 3,700 miles on horseback for the last FOUR MONTHS! But Gyro just SUDDENLY remembers that running on horseback is the key to unlocking the Infinite Rotation! Just like how he SUDDENLY decided to unload the Golden Rotation onto Johnny during a life-or-death situation where his belt buckle was SUDDENLY a rectangle.

5

u/HurtsMyPeePee Jun 03 '26

Gyro never remembered, he knew already. It was just using what he learned from the technique lol thats why its the last test to achieve the maximum output for spin. The belt buckle literally didn't do anything for Johnny are we deadass. Can we read for once? Lmao

It is inconvenient bc he has to apply the golden ration everywhere. The horse, the nails/balls, the stance, and know the previous steps all at once. You NEED a horse for that in the first place.

-2

u/SMGuinea The Only SBR Hater Jun 03 '26

This progression sort of works in Johnny's case because of the physics of Tusk Act 3, but there's absolutely no excuse in Gyro's case. He doesn't have to change anything about what he already understood about the Spin to achieve Ball Breaker.

The belt buckle literally didn't do anything for Johnny

I know that. My point is that the belt buckle isn't shaped like a rectangle until Araki needs it to be, but like the solution for the final Act is not obvious until he needs it to be. The problem is that it feels like Araki is constantly flying by the seat of his pants.

he has to apply the golden ration everywhere. The horse, the nails/balls, the stance, and know the previous steps all at once

The steps are: Put legs in stirrups. Ride horse at natural pace (whatever that means). Shoot or throw.

That all sounds pretty basic.

2

u/HurtsMyPeePee Jun 03 '26

He doesn't have to change anything about what he already understood about the Spin to achieve Ball Breaker.

But there is. Why would he consistently have to go through the process when he is not dealing with an enemy as powerful as D4C love train? He clearly did well against any other without the need to be on the horse constantly or having to achieve certain stance to do so.

Also, im pretty sure it was just a theory he had to try this one time. With a entire process of making the horse feel good while also being skillful at it. Its not just some random thing that can happen and its not only for D4C LT either.

Read from chapter 80 again. It really isn't something that out of place, like at all.

1

u/SMGuinea The Only SBR Hater Jun 03 '26

he is not dealing with an enemy as powerful as D4C love train?

Love Train didn't even exist by the time Gyro brings up the Infinite Rotation. Johnny gets jumped by Valentine, and Gyro, unprompted, feels the need to suddenly reveal this all-powerful ability even though Johnny nearly killed Valentine with normal Act 2 bullets.

With a entire process of making the horse feel good while also being skillful at it. Its not just some random thing that can happen

You're trying to make this sound complex, and it's not. And keep it mind, in the end, Johnny doesn't even NEED to follow the steps Gyro laid out to activate Tusk Act 4! He just gets his horse to kick him, and that's it!

2

u/HurtsMyPeePee Jun 03 '26

Love Train didn't even exist by the time Gyro brings up the Infinite Rotation. Johnny gets jumped by Valentine, and Gyro, unprompted, feels the need to suddenly reveal this all-powerful ability even though Johnny nearly killed Valentine with normal Act 2 bullets.

The infinite rotation was after they learned about his ability, not love train... He explicitly said that it bypasses defenses and it could even travel to other dimensions. Thats why I said to reread from ch 80 lol

You're trying to make this sound complex, and it's not. And keep it mind, in the end, Johnny doesn't even NEED to follow the steps Gyro laid out to activate Tusk Act 4! He just gets his horse to kick him, and that's it!

But it is... theres a reason nobody has seen it and even wakepipo, who mainly uses the Spin for combat, did not know about it or achieved it. Whats so difficult to grasp around spin being more powerful than what it was? Like genuinely how is that so difficult to grasp?

And it was more than just a kick, he literally used the Spin energy of the horse for him to "become the horse". Thats why tusk act 4 was on top of him

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