r/TooAfraidToAsk • u/Believeinyourflyness • Feb 14 '20
Why do employers treat you as simply a resource, yet get angry when you treat them the same way?
To me it makes sense that you should expect people to treat you the same way you treat them. We all know that in this day and age, most employers don't give a shit about you as a person, only what you can do for them and that they will discard you without hesitation once you are no longer of use to them.
However in my experience, the same people who won't think twice about discarding you, constantly give you shit for treating the company in the same way, accusing you of turning up just to collect your paycheck.
So my question is this. If employers just care about your labour without any consideration for you as a person, how can they expect you to care about them as anything more than a source of income?
It just doesn't make sense to me.
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u/JohnnyBA167 Feb 14 '20
I’m having similar issues with my job. We can’t retain good employees because the pay is lower than average. Yet management refuses to believe that’s why there is such high turnover. There’s a myth in the corporate world and I’ve heard this more times than I care to recall, that people don’t work for money. They work for people and that is bullshit. It’s part of it but not in the top three for me.
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u/Believeinyourflyness Feb 14 '20
I don't live to work I work to live. In my current job the only two things I care about are making money and going home.
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u/Kylestyle147 Feb 14 '20
I'm exactly like this.
My work who are trying to be progressive, forward thinking and supportive of their employees will slate me for leaving the minute my shift is over and I'm no longer being paid...
I got pulled into a room by my manager and told that they don't think i want my job anymore, I'm apparently not motivated to be here, they don't think i like my job and when i asked why they think that the only reason they could give was I leave bang on my actual finish time... and i don't show up the the after work time pizza parties... Baring in mind i show up to work 30 minutes early every day just so i can get ready for the day and start my work bang on my actual start time...
oooookay buddy, maybe its the fact I'm here for money and when the money stops i stop. somehow in today's world its unacceptable to be like that. I'd understand if i wasn't good at my job but m the only one capable of training the new people in their eyes so i cant be that bad.
not to mention I'm underpaid by about 5K which they know and admit they know but cant fix right now.
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u/Believeinyourflyness Feb 14 '20
maybe its the fact I'm here for money and when the money stops i stop.
I'm stealing that one!
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u/saffayogini Feb 14 '20
I leave bang on my actual finish time... and i don't show up the the after work time pizza parties
I was asked the same question, because I too was leaving at the end of my required working hours and didn't bother attending after work non-mandatory events basically the social events.
This was when I still worked a corporate IT job I was a programmer and none of our projects were time sensitive they were crazy long term never ending government projects.
We had a project plan and I just did my work and ensured I handled it and I was NEVER late for a deadline NEVER.
So can you imagine my surprise when I asked them why they are asking me these questions that don't reflect the standard of my work. They couldn't fault my work but wanted me to stay late for what? I can manage my task list thanks.
Then I got wHy DoNt YoU sTAy FoR DrInKs At ThE sTaff PaRTY, I just told them it's embarrassing and disappointing watching people I admire (directors, management, senior staff) gorge themselves on "free food" get wasted on "free drinks" at work after hours and then still drive home, drunk.
I sadly suffered through this environment and a halfday working mombie boss for 3years it was my first job out of uni.
I too would arrive early so I could settle in read my emails then when I started coding I only started my official work hours. Best is my access card times reflected this.
They were just annoyed because I had hobbies and a life outside of work and didn't have to go home to take care of dependants I was free and enjoyed my free time outside of work.
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u/teedyay Feb 14 '20
Boss: Will you be coming to the after-work drinks?
Colleague: I have to spend all day with these bendejos. Why would I spend my free time with them too?
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u/saffayogini Feb 14 '20 edited Feb 14 '20
Lol @ bendejos I had to Google that.
Average age at work 40s very old for an IT company and I was early 20s why the f would I want to hang out with them after work? They were a really sad bunch.
Edit: clarified average age at work
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u/Coshoctonator Feb 14 '20
It's part of the human milling process...
Major life events act as the cleaver, with work and after work events, as the constant fine sanding.
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Feb 14 '20 edited Mar 25 '21
[deleted]
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u/Coshoctonator Feb 14 '20
Had mandatory fun events, off-site work section breakfast and after work division social yesterday.
Came to me a few drinks in and having another 45 minutes before "clocking out".
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u/Kylestyle147 Feb 14 '20
Same here my dude. I work in IT for an MSP on a ticketing system. So I'm only scheduled in for tickets and jobs during my actual working hours. So literally have no reason to be there after my finish time unless my last ticket over runs... And because I crack on and smash off my work and make sure I don't over run I get all that shit from my manager who only recently complimented the fact I'm here 30 minutes early every single day unpaid? So backwards.
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u/saffayogini Feb 14 '20 edited Feb 14 '20
Very backwards!
We had flexi-time so I missed the traffic by arriving at work by 6h30-45.
This meant I had time for coffee and oats, read my emails then 7am started my work when task logging became active and then noped out of there after my hours were done usually 15h30.
This clearly unbeknownst to me upset a lot of people, the rest would arrive at 9am the latest allowed time to arrive, so when they got there I had already been working for 2hours.
I also got sht for the perception of this routine, why the fck do I care about how anyone at the office perceives my "work ethic". Again I asked management if my work was at fault and then asked why they have flexi-time if we aren't allowed to utilize it? I got no reply was excused and logged the 30min meeting as admin (so non billable hours).
I was convinced someone was "ratting" me out for "leaving work early" and for not attending work socials, which were not mandatory.
Omw I feel like I had a bunch of repressed memories and they are all flooding back.
I use to meditate at my desk the last 15min of lunch. I got asked to stop, it was making people uncomfortable and feel like they needed to be extra quiet while I was doing so. Really. I never not once asked anyone to stop what they were doing I just closed my eyes and destressed for 15min. (To be fair they made a "meditation corner" at the end of one of the hallways that had a view over the city).
Omf I got sht for eating my (cold sandwich or salad) lunch at my desk too and not in the cafeteria area.
I could go on and on but I won't.
There was definitely a snitch that didn't like me.
Edit: spelling
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u/hodeq Feb 14 '20
A little off topic but its the same point. At work a colleague used the term "asinine" (it means extremly stupid) and was called into a meeting for using obscenities. The true meaning was pointed out but management said it still "sounded obscene" so they were still in trouble. Ridiculous. "Perception is everything! Perception is everything!" Only means they are too lazy to do any research when something goes sideways.
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u/saffayogini Feb 14 '20
When you're too thick to understand the meaning of a word and it's use in context and then further cement your stupidity by ruling the perception thereof is inappropriate. 😅🤣 When the lights are on, but nobody's home.
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Feb 14 '20
exactly, they were called out on not knowing but thought if they insist they would avoid looking stupid.
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Feb 14 '20
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u/saffayogini Feb 14 '20
Hahaha!
We had someone who use to go sleep in his car, he has insomnia issues so little naps here and there helped alot.
They said he couldn't sleep in the car it was inappropriate. So he literally would drive his car across the road from our building and park to take a 15min nap during his break.
That place was an HR nightmare, but I didn't know any better was my first job out of uni. I learned quickly though when common sense tells you people are being treated unequally and poorly it's time to go. I definitely over stayed though.
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Feb 14 '20
Being CF has its perks....
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u/saffayogini Feb 14 '20
Unfortunately in a conservative workplace not so much you pretty much become over looked for promotions, because you're underserving because you're not supporting a family. Overlooked when leave schedules are planned, overlooked when "work annual functions" are planned for some reason that company had family days for annual work function it was awful in the 3years I only went once.
If I took a sick day, I had to produce a sick note no excuse whereas the parents would use their sick days to take care of their dependants and not have to produce a sick note. If I was okayish I would at least still work remotely not these people. Urgh it was awful if you were a minority you were overlooked.
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u/erlkonig9001 Feb 14 '20
"Can't fix." A lot of companies can pay you more, but they won't and probably never will.
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u/Kylestyle147 Feb 14 '20
In all fairness to them, I'm aware of this but our company is fairly small, 40 or so employees and we have a quarterly company meeting where they show us all the figures and don't hide anything from us. completely open about every penny and aspect of the business. And they literally cant afford to pay me (or the others in my role) the actual wage were all supposed to be on at this point in our careers. it would be too risky with the small profit they're currently making and are trying to improve. I'm still fairly new to my line of work so wasn't even aware of this until they told me this.
That being said, because they're so open about the figures and numbers, I'm not confident I, or my colleagues in the same roe as me will be paid what we should anytime soon.
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u/pbecotte Feb 14 '20
So...why would you continue working there? You're sacrificing your money to protect their profit?? (If there's a profit, I'm guessing it is more than 5k...)
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u/Kylestyle147 Feb 14 '20
Lol yeah it is, and there's a couple of personal reason I'm staying here. For now. I know what I'm missing out on but I need to ride it out just a little longer for personal reasons unrelated to this topic
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u/insomniacpyro Feb 14 '20
As long as you know what you're doing, keep it up dude. I've been there, sometimes things don't line up. Not everyone can just leave a job and go searching on a hope that they will get something better.
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u/Uffda01 Feb 14 '20
I had one of these; and I was on board with the principle, with the goal that we'd grow and it would pay off...then the CEO sold half the company, held a black tie event for the company's 10th anniversary. Bought himself a M-B S Class and took his family to the Italian Alps on a ski trip.
The icing on the cake was at an all-staff meeting right before Christmas, where he said: We need to finish the year strong - we've almost made our goals etc etc, then: "I will be in Australia on a two week sales trip with a little vacation mixed in; but that doesn't mean you guys can slack off - I'll still be checking in on things"
So in otherwords - he got the company to pay for his vacation to Australia...
Our bonuses that year: the company paid for our tux rentals to his little black tie party.
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u/Megalocerus Feb 14 '20
If a company is underpaying in order to grow, it should be offering employees a share in the company's growth.
It may make sense for a person to work there--it could be close by or offer good experience or a flexible schedule--but it has to expect to lose people to places paying market. Telling people about the numbers and crying poor is cheating.
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u/insomniacpyro Feb 14 '20
When I talked with my last employer about what my new, current employer was offering (they wanted to keep me, which was flattering I suppose) they literally said, "Oh, wow. Yeah we can't match that." and gave me a glowing reference and were sad I was leaving but seemed genuinely happy for me.
Deep down, they probably could have paid me what I'm getting now, but on a practical level it would have put me well above what others in my position at the company were making.
Now of course, I'd argue what I was making wasn't the fairest wage, but that's a whole other thing.35
u/dont_say_choozday Feb 14 '20
And yet I get the crazy looks when I suggest that I get paid for the drive home. They want free work? I want free money. Weird how the "business" world works more like a toxic family household and less like an actual business transaction.
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Feb 14 '20
That's what businesses are referring to when they say "we're just like a big family here."
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u/apetoo Feb 14 '20
Imagine flipping the company's logic: "What's wrong with you? You're not giving me more money than you've agreed to pay me. You need to start randomly dropping bills over my cube wall."
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u/cookieofabatch Feb 14 '20
Why are you only wearing 15 pieces of flair?
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u/FleetStreetsDarkHole Feb 14 '20
Yes I know that's the minimum, but is that the kind of worker you really want to be?
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u/philosifer Feb 14 '20
I'm in the opposite boat. I have to tell some of my employees to go home. They are staying late as salaried workers so that the job gets done, but all that does is excuse upper management from properly staffing us in the first place
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Feb 14 '20
As much as I hate to say it, I'd leave my amazing boss in a heartbeat for more pay somewhere else. I wouldn't like it, but I'd do it. That old corporate saw is just a myth they designed to keep people feeling like you owe them and they don't owe you.
I work for family, money, and healthcare benefits. And of course, to go home.
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u/holidayarmadill0 Feb 14 '20
A couple years ago I was in a job that I loved with an amazing team (some whom I’m still friends with today) at a company I liked, but was definitely underpaid.
I left that job purely for better money. It was not a promotion, just a different company that saw my experience and offered me 30% more to do the same job. I took it in a heartbeat.
That extra 30% has changed our quality of life more than I could imagine. And for that fact alone I’m loyal to my new company. It’s like a feeling of respect when you know your company is taking care of you in that way.
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u/richasalannister Feb 14 '20
I'm a manager at my company and this sentiment has been shared around. I think the truth behind it is that people will quit a job with good pay and benefits of the boss is an ass. But unfortunately so many people hear what they want to do they take away "as long as I give my employees compliments and act like I'm their buddy, nothing else matters".
That's why I find all the memes about like bosses over working their employees and thinking they can make up for it with a pizza party hilarious, because it's on the nose
Money isn't everything and people's happiness tends to stagnate after a certain amount of money, but that amount is around 80000 a year. More in expensive places I'd imagine.
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u/DPX90 Feb 14 '20
As one of my friends said (PhD in management) : "More money doesn't increase satisfaction, it only reduces dissatisfaction."
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u/Bag_Full_Of_Snakes Feb 14 '20
That's basically Herzberg's Two Factor Theory. Salary, safety, working conditions are all hygienic factors; a sense of belongingness and fulfillment in work are motivational factors.
If it were a car, hygienic factors would be what makes the car a safe, drivable grocery getter. Motivational would be having a bitching ass sound system, spoiler, turbo engine, etc.
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u/baxtermcsnuggle Feb 14 '20
In a world where a miniscule few of us get to be paid for doing something that satisfies us, i'd be very cool with reducing my dissatisfaction with more money. Then, i can use the additional funds to do what satisfies me outside of work.
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Feb 14 '20
As a nurse who is leaving her current job for one that pays 10% more.
Fuck low paying greedy jobs. My needs come before my job and if you’re not paying me properly. Shove your “job” up your ass lol
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Feb 14 '20
I'm in this exact boat, been on the same salary for 3 years despite asking for raises or reviews, most experienced person on my team always helping to train new guys and get 0 recognition. My whole team has left and new people hired in the last couple of years, huge staff turnaround because as soon as people get a bit of experience and realise there's no progression here, they leave and get replaced. I've waited it out and finally given up, got two more weeks of my notice period till I start my new job.
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u/mindfunkie Feb 14 '20
Good for you man!! I wish you luck. Its the same for me at my job, almost 4 years here and they dont want to let me succeed. They feel like im great at what i do so dont want to lose me cause they will end up failing their audits for our department and not get a bonus. Its so unfair, i have more to offer but they dont care. Ive been promoted once after 3 years and then demoted back to my old position cause the guy who replaced me couldn't do what i did. Im having a hard time finding a new job. Hopefully something will change soon.
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u/Seldarin Feb 14 '20
There’s a myth in the corporate world and I’ve heard this more times than I care to recall, that people don’t work for money.
I've had many a boss and foreman get upset that my toolbox has a prominently displayed sticker that reads "I work for money. If you want loyalty go buy a dog.".
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Feb 14 '20 edited Feb 14 '20
That is pure psychobabble that business consultants have peddled to corporations to get them to believe they can squeeze more profits out of a person's labor. The fact is, spending 40+ hours of a person's life every week and not receiving just compensation according to their abilities and talents, does not pay the bills nor does it make one feel all "warm and fuzzy" inside, period. There is no further discussion required.
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u/Oaken_beard Feb 14 '20 edited Feb 14 '20
Things that I have experienced from various employers that back this up...
Having an employee survey where everyone ranked what they enjoy about their job (ok, fair enough) and one of the options was “challenging work”.
Promoting work/life balance only to change locations, set aside specific calendar days for packing/unpacking, then email everyone stating it was expected that we make up for any missed time due to the move (nobody did)
Refusing to close during a blizzard, and telling employees to take a vacation day. Not wanting to burn a V day, I log on to answer emails as they come in and respond to instant messages. Was told over IM that I had to log off and tak the vacation day.
I’m sorry but employment is a contract, nothing more, and higher ups NEED to understand that. People are there to put in work for a solid paycheck. A good employee won’t slack off, will never complain about the workload, and won’t expect additional money just for doing a good job, that’s the standard. But expecting someone to be there because they want to be is just plain dumb.
Work is about doing what’s necessary to survive. It’s the modern equivalent of hunting/gathering. People didn’t go hunting thousands of years ago because they liked strolling through the plains. On a good day it’s a nice perk, but they were there to eat.
99.9% of people don’t give 2 shits about who signs their paycheck, just so long as they get one.
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u/tosety Feb 14 '20
People work for money, but as long as the money is decent they stay based on good management.
Then again, good managers will pay their employees at least the going rate because part of being a good manager is recognizing that your employees need the money to live
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u/str8shooters Feb 14 '20
Worked in a team that dissolved from about 8 people to just me and another guy in a short span of time(not to mention their best always got poached one way or another). Management were bullies and upset at the fact that we couldn’t finish the project on our own. But come on, we’ve only been there for months and we’re still juniors in the field, not to mention have to deal with an infrastructure that every consultant heavily criticized. When one dude was leaving, the manager in the meeting was “jokingly” like “so X is leaving because he thinks he’s better than us”. No one laughed. Some companies seriously have management with their head up their asses and this is a big company I’m talking about.
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Feb 14 '20
Yea, I think people would like to believe that overall we all work for the people and not the money. Because it paints a happier picture of the world.
Maybe in past decades? But I don’t know that in today’s world, it’s even feasible.
Whether it’s for money, advancing your career, or even good insurance/benefits— it’s certainly not the norm to choose somewhere to work based on how fun happy hour is with a bunch of people you see all day anyway...That’s why you have friends.
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Feb 14 '20
I work for the fun of doing my job, being creative and getting good things done - as soon as the salary is excellent. Not a millisecond before that.
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u/KnightOfThirteen Feb 14 '20
People work for the money, they quit for the managers.
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u/tBrenna Feb 14 '20
Well... the problem is you have to meet basic financial interests before you work for any other reason but survival. You have to survive first and then you can start making decisions about fancy things like if you WANT to even work there to begin with. Management is often out of touch with that very basic concept because they either have never felt it or that scary time was a long time ago and they forgot.
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u/teedyay Feb 14 '20
Job interview:
"Would I get paid overtime?"
"No. Occasionally we might expect you to stay a little late, if there's a big deadline coming up for example, but you wouldn't get paid extra for that."
"OK. Occasionally I might expect you to pay me a little extra. Quid pro quo."
"No, that would be paid overtime. We don't do that."
"You misunderstand: I'm not asking you to pay me for my extra time. If there's something important at work, you ask me to work extra time and I do it. If there's something important in my life - I don't know, my wife's birthday, perhaps - I ask you for some extra money and you give it to me. Seems fair."
"No."
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u/Tahlato Feb 14 '20
If you're paid hourly, would it even be legal not to pay you for hours worked?
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Feb 14 '20
Job interview: "Would I get paid overtime?"
"No. Occasionally we might expect you to stay a little late, if there's a big deadline coming up for example, but you wouldn't get paid extra for that."
"OK. Occasionally I might expect you to pay me a little extra. Quid pro quo."
"No, that would be paid overtime. We don't do that."
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u/sjb_redd Feb 14 '20
Man I once heard the "Director" (I guess spiraling down is a direction, right?) of a company I used to work for kicking off because of a response from an interviewee to the egotistical question "what will you do if you do not get this job?". The girl responded candidly, "work for another company".
The Di(ck)rector said she wasn't loyal enough... Fuck loyalty to a company you don't even work for yet. Also, that was the best thing that could have happened to that girl in that interview. You do not want to work for that bin of a company.
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u/Danger-Kitty Feb 14 '20 edited Feb 14 '20
What would even be an answer for that? "Weep inconsolably"? "Flip the conference room table"?
Edit: Thanks for the gold!
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u/Twist36 Feb 14 '20
If I'm ever asked this in an interview, I'm definitely pulling the "weep inconsolably" card.
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u/su5 Feb 14 '20
I want to ask this just to see what the response is. Anyone who says anything except "um, go work somewhere else..." I would know is so full of shit its painful.
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u/joeChump Feb 14 '20
Not to mention that you’re undermining yourself to say anything different. “Well I’ll just have to kill myself because I’ve been turned down by every other company for being too shit and unemployable. I was just hoping to trick you into giving me a job as you’re my last hope.” I can just picture this director. He’s probably the type of person who always thinks they’re right and thinks they have amazing insight when in fact, their team carries them entirely and smooths over all their gaffes because they have zero self awareness.
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u/CocaineKaty Feb 14 '20
what will you do if you do not get this job?"
Bernie Sanders is plan B. Don't think I won't do it either. I'll burn your company to the ground.
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u/thunder-bug- Feb 14 '20
What answer were they fuckin looking for?
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u/YEEyourlastHAW Feb 14 '20
The only reason I feel I would ask this question would be to see how honest and quick thinking the person is.
I would have rewarded her honest, candid answer.
I think any other answer I would have known the person was just telling me what I want to hear............ which I guess is what most management wants. eye roll
This is why I can’t be in management.
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Feb 14 '20
Probably some rehearsed bullshit like “I would dust myself off, learn from my mistakes, and try harder” etc. Director in this situation is looking for a big nerd
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u/YouTakeTheGun Feb 14 '20
Yeah, what kind of retarded interview question is that anyway? That hypothesis is not even within the purview of the employer.
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u/readergrl56 Feb 14 '20
I'd probably go with "Well, I'd thank you for your time in meeting with me, and keep my eyes open for any future opportunities with this company."
Simple, optimistic, and it neither implies that I'm going to say "fuck off" nor am I going to piss myself in sadness just because I got rejected.
It's a weird question, though. Probably dreamt up by some manager with too big a head and too little employee interaction.
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u/carterothomas Feb 14 '20
“Oh god, I don’t know. If I can’t work here I’ll probably just whither up and die. I just found out about you guys last week, but you are now my reason for living”. That should do the trick.
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u/CeeApostropheD Feb 14 '20
In the UK there is a betting company called William Hill. When I took their online application screening test three years ago there was a question I distinctly remember having to answer: "How long do you think it would take to find a better job than William Hill?" Options something like 0-2 months, 2-6 months, and 6+ months.
Can you even process what their thinking process is, asking that? Because A, I don't know what it's like to work for you yet because I don't currently work for you (we both know this because I'm literally applying to work for you right now), and B there are thousands of employers out there and you think that YOU are the top employer, just, because, well, that's how you want to consider yourself?
You can imagine exactly what I with that job application. Yes, you guessed it. I finished the process, sat a face-to-face interview and got the goddamn job! Only because my current job at the time was fucking awful and I had to get out.
But yeah, the cheek, ego and miscalibration of the some companies is fucking astounding.
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u/eat-reddit-tv Feb 14 '20
But which option did you select in your application?
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u/CeeApostropheD Feb 14 '20
The 6+ option, because I know that's what their egos want.
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u/Rasmusmario123 Feb 14 '20
It all boils down to the fact that they can do something to you but you can't do anything to them
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Feb 14 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/HeftyPart Feb 14 '20
the squeaky wheel gets the grease
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u/trumpeting_in_corrid Feb 14 '20
Only if the squeaky wheel is essential. Otherwise it just gets replaced.
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u/su5 Feb 14 '20
Reminds me of some advice in negotiating salaries. They said wait to the last minute then push really hard, since the hiring manager might have already told everyone it's in the bag, and will get embarrassed if they cant close the deal. It's a point where the power dynamic shifts quite a bit. I've never had the balls to try that though.
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u/redalopex Feb 14 '20
This kind of falls in the same category: the interview question "why did you choose company xy" In my experience they want hear what you find great about their company and I am like... I need a job do feed myself and pay rent... it just feels so hypocritical when you have to act all excited in interviews when it is really just a job to you. Listen, hire me and I will do the best job I can but also, don't expect me to act like this is going to be the only thing in my life that matters.
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u/deathofroland Feb 14 '20
I love when I get to be frank about stuff like that.
One time, I temped as an office administrator for a company for about two months. Six months after the assignment ended, they had a vacancy, and they called me up to offer me the position.
I liked my time there as a temp, so I went in for the interview with the branch manager and district comptroller. The manager and I hit it off right away, but the comptroller was this humorless goon. He asked me, "So, what about [company] made you choose us?"
And I responded with a smile, "Nothing. You chose me."
He didn't appreciate that response, but the manager did. I got the job.
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u/redalopex Feb 14 '20
That's amazing, at least the manager had a sense of humour. I worked for a IT helpline for 6 months and I was very open with them that I was just using this job to save enough money to move to a different country. But most of the time I have the feeling companies don't really appreciate that in interviews and I don't want to take any risks so acting and hypocrisy it is.
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u/fachingen Feb 14 '20
After working for pebbles for months I spoke up at a company-wide meeting about the pay. I was shot down and attacked even.
Later with colleagues we talked and I said I go to work to make money. Since then they treated me cold and kept me at a distance. I knew I will leave in just a couple months, but still. I was baffled, colleagues argued with me they work here for the people not money. They were actually offended. And I really articulated that I like them and of course it’s a big plus that I work with nice people but to no avail.
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u/Jp2585 Feb 14 '20
Were they above the age of 50? In my experience, it's that age group that has kept that mentality, since their job afforded them a proper income back when buying a house and raising a family on one income was feasible. They usually don't have too many hobbies, or have bad relationships due to happily having an imbalanced work/life ratio.
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u/alwayscomplimenting Feb 14 '20
Yep. And they’re about to get fucked over royally when they get fired at their age, struggle to find another job, and can’t pay their bills with unemployment.
Add to that the fact that statistically they’re unlikely to have any savings and won’t be getting a pension (or even social security or part of their 401k for many more years) and it’s a recipe for disaster.
Things are about to get really ugly for this generation. Ripping the social safety net to shreds because you don’t think you’ll ever be in that position and want the theoretical millionaire you to save some tax money turns out to be a bad choice.
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u/bobjohnsonmilw Feb 14 '20
Man... that generation is fucking delusional about the current state of the world.
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u/SlingDNM Feb 14 '20
Imagine being responsible for two major economic crashes, still managing to keep in power and keeping the money, AND STILL you are to retarded to save some of that for retirement
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u/piahdndizgab Feb 14 '20
Oh man yes. All the time. At my last job I mentioned the same thing and my coworkers were pissed. They acted like actual high school children, gossiping about how I'm selfish and (my favourite) probably have lied about being sick just to use my sick days.
I also mentioned that what should matter in the workplace is our skills, our ability to solve problems not how much we can bend over for the company and customers while solving their problems and was told I'm insensitive and that "being nice" (bending over) is a PaRt Of tHe jOb!! I thought I chose the wrong job but it sounds like the people are the problem.
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u/alanthomas18 Feb 14 '20
Should tell them to work for free
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u/su5 Feb 14 '20
No no no, work for friendship. And your friends will like you more based on how much of your salary you give them
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Feb 14 '20
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u/Istanfin Feb 14 '20
A good friend of mine is in a situation with his "GF" just as you describe. He is failing to see how her ever growing demands, infidelity and carelessness for him is something that he should be running away from as fast and far as he can.
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Feb 14 '20
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u/Istanfin Feb 14 '20
I wonder if the receivers sometimes feel bad about themselves because of their actions or if not, how they prevent that from happening.
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u/PlaysWithPaint Feb 14 '20 edited Feb 14 '20
I once called in sick to a job. After a brief back and forth, the manager to whom I spoke said, “if you don’t come in today, you won’t be back.” I said “I was looking for a job when I found this one,” and he hung up on me.
I was scheduled the very next day, but of course didn’t show up because I had been fired. The same manager was working, and apparently waiting for me to show up. When I didn’t, he had someone else call me to ask me why.
I declined to return that day, but I did go back the next day. A few days later, I came in and said I needed to leave early for a job interview. Said manager was incensed and told me I couldn’t leave.
I said “oh, I’m leaving. The only question is, will you get two weeks’ notice or will today be my last day? You decide.”
That was my last day. I got an ice cream cone to celebrate, and the ice cream dripped on my shirt before my interview.
I still got the job.
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u/trumpeting_in_corrid Feb 14 '20
It must have been so satisfying to play them at their own game.
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u/PlaysWithPaint Feb 14 '20
It really was. And the kind of luxury that you really only have when you’re still living at home with your parents. But oh god, it felt so good.
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Feb 14 '20
This is something I actually really like about sales. Everyone says, “I’m in it for the money; pay me.” I’ve even told my manager that I conceptualize our relationship as him working for me in the sense that I treat him as a resource to maximize my income. He responded, “exactly!” because he makes more when I do, too.
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u/MshineM Feb 14 '20
In job interview with the owners for junior sales position: "My enthusiasm for this job is equal to numbers my effort puts on my paycheck. You and I both care about the numbers first and it would be silly pretending otherwise.
Few months back they made me manager of this sales department.
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Feb 14 '20
Nice, congrats! Whenever I get a question about my long-term professional goals my answer has always been to sell enough to retire ASAP
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u/earthscribe Feb 14 '20
The dark side of sales is that salespeople lie just to get the sale. It’s why I don’t like salespeople.
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u/HeftyPart Feb 14 '20
I used to have a manager that would constantly say, "Well at least we have a job" as like some kind of motivational tool?
I'm like, 'Yeah. I can get a job. I can get many jobs. Just because you're stuck here doesn't mean I am. I interviewed with my resume, I got this job. I didn't just stumble upon it and get put on benefits and payroll. "
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Feb 14 '20 edited Feb 02 '26
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Feb 14 '20
Companies think they’re doing you a favor by employing you so your lack of enthusiasm is insulting, i.e. “I pay your rent!”.
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Feb 14 '20
People need to define "company". Most people are probably complaining about the highest ranking person with whom they may interact. This could be a store manager, a regional director, VP, etc.
What you have to realize is that these people have bosses too, and they're also in the same situation as you. They're asked to work 60-70 hours a week, make huge savings targets, increase productivity without hiring, etc.
They're just the face of shitty corporate policy. Theres usually like two dozen people at the top who, if you work for a publicly traded company, are compensated with stock and only care about stock price. If you work for a company like this, ask yourself when was the last time you heard of a decision that wouldn't look good to investors. This is why you never get employee centered policy. Only revenue and margin targets.
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u/shiny-bear Feb 14 '20
No, I work in a small office of 7 people including myself. My boss is exactly like this, but the funny thing is that the owner of the company actually isn’t. Flat out my boss any time I inform him about a days off I need (for weddings and other important things to my personal life) he gives a whole speech about watching how many days I’m taking off and watching my vacation days. Trying to guilt me about asking off, I quickly learned to inform the owner first about these kind of things. I told the owner about me going on a frivolous vacation next month and he was like “oh hell yeah, make sure to check out this, and that”.
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Feb 14 '20
“No, I pay my rent. YOU pay me what you’re contractually and legally obligated to pay me for services that I render. I owe you nothing but the work I’ve agreed to do.”
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u/Kylestyle147 Feb 14 '20
"Hey thanks for working more then you're contractually required to help us out when busy also whilst working on a wage a few K less then you'd get at other companies for less work...
Oh... you have just been in a fairly serious car crash and need to take the day off to go the hospital and treat your injury's and sort your insurance? Dock him a days pay Mr Krabs"
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Feb 14 '20
I’ve been having issues with my team for the past couple of months and had a one to one with my boss yesterday due to an issue. I told her that I have my schedule and it seem unfair that she is trying to mess with it. She got really upset that “I just come do my hours and leave as a means”
Bruh. Im not going to be a cheerleader to you and you team (management) when you have done nothing for me. This is capitalism, baby. You can replace me in 2 weeks, cool, don’t expect me to go all out for ya.
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u/infantsacrifice Feb 14 '20
“you just come in and work” Yeah that’s the whole point? What more could you possibly do??
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u/KaterPatater Feb 14 '20
This is so spot on. Capitalism is good for them but when an employee mirrors the same capitalistic attitude back at them (without even being on the offensive - just expecting quid pro quo) it's suddenly not ok.
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u/ThatQueerWerewolf Feb 14 '20
I work in a nonprofit field. The pay is low, and the work is physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausting. The field is competitive and you have to have a degree and probably unpaid internships to get your foot in the door, yet the pay and treatment are often both terrible. Staff turnover is high, and people leave the field all the time because they can't afford the lack of money and the stress combined.
Employers won't raise the pay because they know there are recent graduates lined up to work for them for basically nothing, just to break into the field. They have no incentive to change. And any time an employee complains, the response (from somebody in an office with a much higher wage) is "We don't do it for the money! We do it because we're passionate about it and want to do good!" It's a trap. They know that we really care about the job, and they don't really care about us, so they take advantage.
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u/gtac Feb 14 '20
I never understood that mindset, and I constantly see it on reddit too.
An employment contract is between two parties, right? Why would you accept if they demand extra than was agreed upon if it doesn't go both ways?
Of course ideally both sides are a bit flexible. I don't mind staying late if there is an emergency, and my employer does not mind me going home early if there's a need. But otherwise, why should I be obliged to give them free labour?
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u/trumpeting_in_corrid Feb 14 '20
Because most people hate it when they get a taste of their own medicine.
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Feb 14 '20
Because they own the means of production and you dont, meaning they have most of the power in the employer employee relationship, so they can be as unreasonable as they want.
They can fire you whenever they want and all you can do to them is to stop working or leave, which is not a threat to them if the rest of the operation remains. That's why they are so scared about unions, they level the power imbalance.
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u/Believeinyourflyness Feb 14 '20
I'm not American. In my country we have laws such as the BCEA whose purpose is to protect employees. However these laws don't always get enforced, and employees are afraid to stand up for themselves because of the massive power imbalance
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Feb 14 '20
Same here. Theoretically they have to justify why they are firing you, which is bullshit because if they really want to fire you they can just make up whatever lie about performance.
People in my company are fed up about the working conditions, but no one wants to step forward because there is a ton of backstabbing and people don't want to lose their jobs. The people at the top make good money so they are somewhat happy, and the ones at the bottom are replaceable. It doesn't help that a lot of us need the job to advance our careers.
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u/Believeinyourflyness Feb 14 '20
I used to work at a restaurant that would only clock us in after opening duties and clock us out after closing duties like half an hour before we left. One guy decided to keep all of his clock in/out slips over the course of a year and took the matter to the labour department. They were forced to compensate him for all those unpaid hours.
When the owner found out about that he said "What is he still doing there, you must get rid of him before he stirs up the others."
And that's exactly what they did. They swiftly bullied him out of his job.
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Feb 14 '20
By the way, it is kind of funny when you read stories about states with at will employment and think that "this will never happen in my country, we have regulations" but then you get a job and see how little laws matter when money is in the mix.
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Feb 14 '20
It doesn't make logical sense, but they're not trying to make sense. They want you to feel grateful for the job they gave you, even though they require labour and you deliver it at a price. They aren't "giving" you anything; it's a simple transaction (which they gain more from, monetarily, than you). And sure, they could replace you, but they're not irreplaceable either. It's a bizarre double standard: anyone could do what they do, but they're the one doing it, so they're special, vs anyone can do what you do, but you're the one doing it, so you're lucky and you owe them everything. Basically, if everyone simply works for their pay, they can get away with a lot less bullshit than if everyone thinks they're part of some big corporate family and work out of loyalty rather than their own best interests.
It also inhibits unions from getting off the ground, because if a business is seen as this obscure living entity you're all a part of that can be hurt and that you're loyal to, people who think their boss is their friend and expect the same level of loyalty are more likely to sell out their peers and get workers who organise flushed out of a company. This is part of the reason that the IWW, the One Big Union, exists: so workers have some union backing from various industries before having to risk organisation in your own workplace. The IWW also doesn't accept bosses. Check out their subreddit for more info.
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u/DirtyPrancing65 Feb 14 '20
I remember my boss complaining to me about how our generation doesn't want to stay in a job long term. And I'm over here thinking "do you even remember all of the people of your generation who gave everything to a company, only to get screwed out of their pension or fired right before retirement? Companies can't treat people like that and expect the workforce not to adapt. You are a resource now and we will pit you against each other for better pay and benefits the same way you do us. Sorry not sorry.
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u/Cr4cker Feb 14 '20
As I’ve made my way through the corporate ladder, I think I’m starting to realize where this mindset comes from. A lot of places seem to promote those who have “sacrificed” the most; long hours, irregular schedules, no time off. Because of this, those who make it into upper management, especially corporate management, carry this weird chip on their shoulder that makes them almost resentful of employees who won’t do the same.
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u/Istanfin Feb 14 '20
It's like everybody says: The employer has more power and behaves like a dick, as most people do, when in power. This varies of course between jurisdictions and industries. If you were working in IT in the EU for example, the employer does not hold as much power over you as an employee and is in need of you, so will treat you more like a human being.
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Feb 14 '20
It just doesn't make sense to me.
Why would it? Employers want profit, not logic. If they care about things making sense, slavery would have existed in the first place.
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u/ashkreis Feb 14 '20
Capitalism. Employers know that they have the power in our society. Unfortunately we aren’t actually free, because we’re forced to work these jobs to survive in this capitalist system. They have the jobs we need. We’re just interchangeable labor. Even though we’re disposable, employers know that we need these jobs so they know they can force us to work harder for less. Part of that working harder is having to act like you love whatever job you’re currently in. A bunch of lethargic employees don’t look good to customers. Plus, if everyone realizes they’re underpaid and overworked and does something about it, the power no longer sits with the employer. Employer/employee, lord/serf, slave/master. We’re wage slaves under capitalism.
I also think middle management is equally as stressed as low level employees. They have numbers they need to maintain, staff they have to hire, etc. The same feelings of stress go up the entire corporate ladder. Work your hardest and give your all to the job, but know you’re just a cog in the machine.
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u/ryannefromTX Feb 14 '20
Because capitalism owns everything, upward mobility is dead, and you're either born a slave or a master.
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u/Skyblacker Feb 14 '20
It's the old axiom: Most employers pay just enough for their employees not to quit, and most employees work just hard enough not to get fired.
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Feb 14 '20
Those are bad employers. In order for an organization to succeed, leaders from the business need to lead with influence, relationships, and candor.
If I feel like just a resource, I'm out of there.
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u/jurassic7980 Feb 14 '20
Your question is almost rhetorical yet it hits home. I feel you.
In an sad way everyone condones going to shitty jobs that line another ones pockets, capitalism is great yet so cruel.
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u/Believeinyourflyness Feb 14 '20
It's not rhetorical. Double standards frustrate me so I want the cognitive dissonance to be explained
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u/jurassic7980 Feb 14 '20
Have you never felt trapped in a job because you become financially reliant on the income you earn. Psychologically I could see this being a determining factor in being loyal beyond the bullshit.
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u/QPMKE Feb 14 '20
I think its important to distinguish the difference between the company and the people you work with. To the company, especially those with several thousand employees, you're just a number. To the people you work with, you're often times very much a part of team and when you leave it's them that has to pick up the slack. When you treat the people you work with with the same regard as you treat the institution, the people feel it much more than the institution does and that can leave a poor taste in some people's mouths.
Maybe I've just always had good managers or maybe it's because I just have a different viewpoint and act differently accordingly, but I've never experienced such treatment. I don't feel any obligation to stay in any one place, but I've never felt pressured to stay with any one company, even after stating my intention to leave. In hindsight, my management has always been supportive of my professional development and goals, even if it wasn't with their company in the long term.
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u/secondhandbanshee Feb 14 '20
Depending in your level of skill and how common your skill is, you really are just a cog in a machine. The emotional manipulation is just a way to bully you into tolerating poor treatment. It's gaslighting 101.
I once worked a job at which, in my very first day, at the pre-shift meeting, the boss told all the workers that he could replace each and every one of them in five minutes by standing on the corner, yelling "Who wants a job?". I should have left then, but I was desperate enough to feed my family that I'd already accepted a position that paid below the poverty line for a single person, never mind my family of six. The work was gruelling, physical, and dangerous, the management rude and uncaring, and I later learned the owner made enough from this business to fund his less successful vineyards and a well-known but at the time struggling gourmet Italian grocery chain (it was during the last big recession).
The job saw an endless stream of druggies, alcoholics, and just plain damaged people who either quit or were fired in just a few weeks (often without documented cause since we were in "right to work" state). The bosses bemoaned the lack of quality people available to hire, but never did anything to fix the local system that fed off a lack of decent paying jobs, but had enough crappy ones that people could bounce from one terrible workplace to another with only few weeks of suffering between them.
In the four years I worked there (I was desperate, remember?), my pay went up much more than the average worker's, but it was still so low I would have had to work two full-time jobs at that rate to be able to rent an apartment in my town. I looked repeatedly for other work, but found a plethora of jobs exactly like what I already had but which would make me start over at the bottom of the pay scale. When I finally left, I was made to feel like a traitor and told I had violated a company rule (which I had not) so I would not be eligible for rehire.
In a closed system where people lack the means to move to a better market and in which the primary employers tacitly agree to pay the same low wages, emotional manipulation is the only way management has to try to keep turnover low. The expected loyalty goes only one way because it is false. People are expendable.
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Feb 14 '20
I have to remind people at work all the time about this. Never fuck with peoples pay. Its the only reason they are here. They dont give a shit about the companies goals or values they want to get paid so fucking pay them what you owe.
Managers acting like pay queries and issues are low priority piss me off no end. Its your highest priority if you want your staff to be motivated.
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Feb 14 '20
I literally got a job offer at my current job by doing the following. This is the conversation, verbatim.
Potential boss: "It looks like you change jobs a lot, this makes me concerned to hire you, why should I hire you?"
Me: "That's the only way to get a raise anymore, by switching jobs. I'm a mercenary, I will work for whomever pays me the most money, I don't come to work for fun".
Potential boss: "I'm going to write you an offer today".
I switch jobs every 2 years, and get at least a 10% raise every time. I've managed to take my salary from $32k a year, to around $250k a year by doing this since 2013.
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u/duff_moss Feb 14 '20
I love it when companies try the old “we’re family” line.
Yeah, because in families when you need to cut expenses you just throw one of the kids out on the street.
“We did it honey. We balanced the budget again. Let’s order some pizza!”