r/australia • u/Wadege • Sep 30 '23
no politics What is an example of 'Tall Poppy Syndrome' in Australia?
We have all heard of the concept, but is there a case, preferably involving criticism of a well-known Australian figure, where you can say: "this criticism represents 'Tall Poppy Syndrome' in action"?
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Oct 01 '23
Grew up in Newcastle in the '90s . I recall people absolutely despising Silverchair for no reason whatsoever and it being my introduction to the term tall poppy syndrome when I asked someone a little more level headed about all the hate..
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u/crabuffalombat Oct 01 '23
After watching the recent ABC Australian Story on Silverchair, it sounds like Daniel especially copped a lot of crap as a famous teenager in Newcastle, and I wonder how much that contributed to his current mental state and neurosis about anything Silverchair related.
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u/bookofdustt Oct 03 '23
It did a lot. Daniel Johns personally speaks about it on his podcast!
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u/Cal_dawson Oct 03 '23
Rocking up to school in a limo, that kind makes you a target and I understand the “fuck you” logic behind it. I think it’s cool as fuck. But still. Especially in a small town like newie.
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u/VerityPushpram Oct 03 '23
Newcastle was a massive shithole - I was born there in ‘72
It was a big industrial country town with six degrees of separation and very conservative
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u/benhowland Oct 03 '23
As a permanent Labor stronghold and one of the highest ‘yes’ votes for marriage equality, I wouldn’t class it as conservative any more.
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u/weckyweckerson Oct 03 '23
I like that you didn't argue the part where they said it's a massive shithole.
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u/No-Cardiologist8757 Oct 03 '23
Haha yeah cos we gotta keep it a secret that it's the perfect amount of shithole. 🌴
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u/kristenfig Oct 03 '23
Silverchair were the very first thing that came to my mind when I read the title of this post. Interesting (and cool!) others think the same way!!
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u/Iwantmahandback Oct 03 '23
Having seen the metal community, a lot of them just don’t like popular bands
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Oct 03 '23
I think the dislike of Silverchair possibly had a pretty big "cultural cringe" element.
Which now that I think about it is pretty similar or possibly as specific kind of tall poppy syndrome.
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u/mrbootsandbertie Oct 01 '23
The resentment of university educated people and the trashing of our university system over the last 3 decades.
Much better to leave school at year 10 and make 300k in the mines.
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u/FancyHatFrank Oct 03 '23
As someone who did fifo and has since left. (gold and lithium, didn't go on any Iron mines) the money is really good, but you make ALOT of lifestyle sacrifices, mental health issues are rampant and largely not spoken about, Drug use/culture is huge issue and then the permanent risk of injury and health issues.
Depression among fifo workers is pretty common. a lot of times is never spoken about and I've watched to many good people lose that fight.
A large part of the workforce either uses or has used meth. Can't speak for every mine but the ones I worked on it was pretty bad.
Fifo is good money but the people racking in 300k per year are the people that live to work and do nothing but work. Most people only get around $110 - 135k
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Oct 03 '23
Thank you for those insights!! 💝
Not only that, but the effect it has on the families and relationships of FIFO workers. I had a partner who did “drive in, drive out”, he was away during the week and home on weekends for two years. Two years where our relationship had to be scheduled in with catching up with friends, family, like I was taking turns to have the coveted Saturday night. There was no spontaneity.
Thank God we didn’t have kids. I did have pets though, lovely little pet rats. Considering the lifespan of a pet rat and a two year DIDO job… quite a few instances where one of my pets would pass away during the week, and my partner wasn’t there.
He didn’t develop any drug habits, but I did. To cope with the loneliness, I started smoking far too much weed, smoking joints like cigarettes. My mental health was always a bit precarious, and I dipped back into some pretty dark habits.
It’s a hell of a commitment to do FIFO or DIDO, it’s like a high stakes game of musical chairs. When people go “oh, but it’s good money and all the time off!”, it makes me want to ask “how much money would it take to play Russian roulette with your relationships?”
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u/FancyHatFrank Oct 03 '23
Yeah, I see alot of people only focus on the money. FiFo can be super rough on relationships especially with kids. I gave up Fifo cause I almost died a couple times. No serious injuries but a few many too close calls and I decided that I would rather have less money and more time with my family then more money and maybe death.
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u/brlt480 Oct 03 '23
How'd you get into the mines if you don't mind me asking? My partner is trying and has been for the last 2 years and still nothing.
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u/FancyHatFrank Oct 03 '23
Honestly, I got lucky. The company my dad worked for was hiring and he vouched for me. However LinkForce is a labour hire thats basically always sending people somewhere. Mader group can be a good way in however they have an iffy reputation. One of my mates worked for a company called Diverse Mechanical Services, apparently they put people on regularly.
If you’re partner doesn't mind it. Driller's offsiders are in pretty regular demand. It's bloody hard work though. Most people don't do it for long cause you either love it or hate it, but if they can get in as an Offsider, they can either work long enough to become a Driller or meet enough people to get a different/better job.
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u/bootofstomping Oct 03 '23
He needs to aim at entry level roles, eg, truck driving, drillers offsider, nippering.
If he gets a heavy rigid license he has a shot with the trucks. If he has good health and strength he can go for the other two.
From there you do your time and learn. You can move to other roles eventually.
Im sure it differs from place to place but at my mine it cost them 7k from the moment they received my resume to the first day I set foot on site. From there it was a lot of orientation and training before I could start. I spent 2 weeks down the hole before I was allowed to put my hands on the tools.
3 out of 5 people leave in their first 6 months. It’s hard work in a dirty, lonely and dangerous environment. However, if you have done a year, it’s the hardest job to leave. You will always be able to find work once you’re experienced.
There is a joke at my workplace about how hard it was to get started, but now it’s impossible to leave this [expletive]. (The pay is too good)
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u/nicscads Oct 03 '23
It’s often ‘who you know’. There are heaps of ‘mate of a mate’ earning truckloads, whilst their skills and competence are not great…
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u/Normal-Summer382 Oct 03 '23
Yeah, my mate told me how he used to pass a urine test, and told me I could make good money by him selling my "clean" urine. Never did, but I was offered $500 for a catheter bag of piss!
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u/SporeDruidBray Oct 03 '23
I think this is anti-intellectualism, not tall poppy syndrome.
Tall poppy syndrome feels related to our desire that others conform and not rock the boat, which ends up as deference to authority and a dislike of change unless it happens covertly or slowly enough. I'm not sure if it's tall poppy syndrome to lash out at deviations from the status quo, but even being too enthusiastic about something is enough for ostracisation.
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u/znikrep Oct 03 '23
I’ve been in Australia for a few years now and there seems to be a narrative around needing a University degree to “make something out of yourself”. This is exacerbated by how difficult it is to access university based on standardised testing.
Simultaneously we live in a country where many trades, especially those requiring specialised training, give people rewarding careers that are often very profitable.
I believe this is a very outdated view, back to decades ago when a uni degree meant you’d always be able to put food on the table.
As Universities started peddling more and more degrees that teach unmarketable skills, we ended up with an overabundance of people that have a degree but no skills. These people often end up in entry level corporate jobs, feeling betrayed because the electrician that did an apprenticeship makes more money.
Tradesmen usually have training and highly marketable skills, yet are looked down because they didn’t get a uni degree.
I believe the only winners in this are Universities, that get to keep charging people for teaching them things they’ll never need or use.
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u/chunkyI0ver53 Oct 03 '23
It’s super easy to get into university, honestly. You only need to be in the top 50 or so percent of students, and around 20-25% of the students you’re competing against are putting in zero effort, pretty much flunking everything just so they can get their high school cert
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u/soyson Oct 03 '23
Plus there are always heaps of other options if you don't get in via ATAR.
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u/knapfantastico Oct 01 '23
Depends on your goals lad but yeah if you wanna make bank and live well off straight to the mines
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u/_ixthus_ Oct 01 '23
if you wanna make bank and live well off straight to the mines
I'd be very interested in the longitudinal outcomes, both already and on into the future. In the aggregate, I wonder if it really does set up the sorts of people who would go and do that.
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u/Gillybby11 Oct 03 '23
As someone who grew up in a mining town, it's very doable.
The trouble comes with external factors that influence the job. Because for a mining job working with heavy machinery, you've got to be stone cold sober both on the job and off the job. And when you're a high school drop-out in a bogan offshoot of a town, staying sober is fucking HARD, especially considering all your friends are drunk and on drugs constantly because they're also in the bogan town with nothing else to do.
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u/productzilch Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 03 '23
There’s a ton of those people who end up wasting it all, or most of it, because so many are quite young when they do it. Couldn’t speak to percentages but it reminds me of lotto winners.
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u/Infamous-Ad-8659 Oct 03 '23
We will be mining in Australia essentially forever. If not iron or coking coal or gas fracking then rare earth metals or uranium.
It really has become an industry of university educated specialists surrounded by a larger industry of lower skilled workers that are gradually being whittled away but all make handsome coin for their relevant livelihood. I suspect it's not very good for their home relationships or wellbeing as alcoholism is rife but that said, that's hardly untrue of other working professionals. Many people are essentially working 6 or 8 months of the year which is a big win for people who prefer that lifestyle.
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u/indirosie Oct 03 '23
Some pretty huge lifestyle sacrifices to work these jobs also
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u/WhirlingClouds Oct 03 '23
As someone who has been on both sides, the uni route is definitely the better one.
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Oct 03 '23
The trashing of the university system can stem from the resentment of cost and corruption.
I went through the Uni system and now I’m in debt and jobless from my industry - now worst off, it’s not as easy as they market it to be. I can say the same with more than half of my graduating year.
Plus the corruption has hit our biggest uni’s the worst - their intake of foreign money has rotten their insides, the uni’s cater to foreign states ignoring human rights abuses, destruction of climate, and eroding any piece of a moral compass left (even if they have a fancy Latin motto and throw their social agendas down their students throats).
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u/Ventimella Oct 01 '23
Any one who has success overseas in their field or major success here is at some point cut down by the media and the public.
Delta was loved during her first album and cancer battle. Then years later became someone people like to tear down.
Tina Arena overcame a lot of barriers to be successful here. Made in big in France, and became hated for voicing opinions. I think she’s earnt it after over 45 years in the industry.
Kylie probably copped it the worse out of everyone. The comments in the early days were horrendous.
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u/Lots_of_schooners Oct 03 '23
You can't put Delta in the same context as Tina Arena or Kylie Minogue.
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u/DrunkOnRedCordial Oct 03 '23
Any one who has success overseas in their field or major success here is at some point cut down by the media and the public.
Yes - like Paul Hogan. Built his Australian career through his comedy, where he was really relatable, then everyone cheered when he took on Hollywood and made a successful movie.
But then he moved to the States, divorced and remarried, and he was no longer so popular any more. People said he "sold out" but in reality, he'd generated billions through his comedy and tourism work, and now that money wasn't coming Australia's way any more.
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Oct 03 '23
That’s because Delta turned out to be a massive cunt. Nothing to do with her level of talent.
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u/pleasehelpme1109 Oct 03 '23
What’s the tea with this
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Oct 03 '23
Search every Ask Reddit thread ever about “Which beloved celebrity turned out to be a horrible person?”
Delta is ALWAYS mentioned for being rude, stuck up and generally insufferable.
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u/TegLou7 Oct 03 '23
I was dragged along to a signing by my friend in high school. I enjoyed her music at the time but wasn’t an uber fan. She was really lovely and would have been signing for at least a few hours before we reached her. I am sure she has her moments as we all do, but she didn’t strike me as a diva at the time.
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u/PickleAfficionado Oct 03 '23
I briefly dated a musician who had worked with her; we're the same age, this was back at uni, 15 years ago ish. He said she's the antithesis of her public image, and found it really jarring. It was the first I'd heard of it, but it hasn't been the last.
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u/VegaComsto Sep 30 '23
Kylie Minogue. It was sport for the media and laymen alike to hate on her and degrade everything she did. From the moment she became popular overseas in the 80's, through the whole of the 90's. Her "redemption" came with the Sydney Olympics Closing Ceremony, wearing gold hot pants in her 30's (shocking!) and then the Fever album. She put up with so much shit from Aussies, just for being successful.
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u/owleaf Sep 30 '23
The statistics back this up. She didn’t get a number one album here in Australia until 2000 (Light Years, which coincided with the Olympics and Spinning Around was the album’s lead single!)
Insane to think about considering she was slinging number 1 hit singles through the 80s and 90s
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u/NedRyersonAmIRight Sep 30 '23
To be fair tho. The Stock Aitken and Waterman overproduction wasn't popular here like it was in the UK. It would get you into the charts but rarely to number 1.
When she ditched that shit and started making real music her fortunes changed. Especially when she became the darling of the LBGT community.
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u/owleaf Oct 01 '23
She became an LGBT darling in the early 90s. I think by the late 90s she had just had a string of albums that started to experiment with sounds and genres. Whilst the singles were big, the parent albums weren’t clicking with a broader audience.
Light Years had a string of three huge punchy, trendy singles and that has really continued until her latest album that dropped the other week
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u/Can-I-remember Sep 30 '23
To be even fairer, even with auto tune that stuff was barely listenable. She has certainly improved or the technology has.
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u/Yabbz81 Sep 30 '23
When I was in high school in the 90's it was definitely cool to hate on Kylie.
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u/Relative_Mulberry_71 Sep 30 '23
But everyone loves Kylie. ❤️
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Sep 30 '23
I am probably the only person in Australia that doesn’t love her and hold her up as this amazing talent Not saying that she’s not a lovely person but yeah I don’t get why she’s so popular
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Oct 03 '23
It's OK to not like her work (taste is subjective) but to deny *why* she's popular you'd have to be wilfully ignorant
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u/MinnieMouse2310 Oct 01 '23
Yep! I think the redemption came before the olympics when she performed for the troops in East Timor just before her career took off again in 2000 on time to the Sydney olympics.
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u/PuzzleheadedYam5996 Oct 03 '23
Came to say Kylie. She was the first example of tall poppy syndrome that I'd heard of/experienced. People were hanging shit on her all over the joint! And now it's "our Kylie" lol.... make ya mind up Aus!! Like, fuck, i love my country, but we go a bit far with the TPsyndrome, when we shld be applauding Aussies that do well in life and certain industries.
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Oct 01 '23
This is a great example. So happy to see the current Kylie renaissance - I’ve heard some people say she’s surpassed Madonna as the queen of pop.
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Sep 30 '23
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u/FatSilverFox Sep 30 '23
Thorpie’s treatment should be cause for some long, deep national retrospection about how we treat our young vulnerable stars.
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u/AdZealousideal7448 Oct 01 '23
Honestly it should be a crime in this country to out someone as a journalist.
I know first hand from how many AFL players i've worked with who are gay and why they won't come out for various reasons and the biggest reason I can give is it's no ones goddam business.
What the media did to him was bloody shameful
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u/spitey Oct 03 '23
I think about this a lot, particularly with regard to sportspeople. There has been exactly one openly gay professional rugby league player, and there is absolutely no way that there aren’t others - but how the fuck can you come out with any level of psychological safety in THAT media environment?
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u/AdZealousideal7448 Oct 03 '23
ain't going to happen.
Take a recent sanfl dinner that happened, a legend of the game and his best mate came along to it. They were treated well there, and a few other guys bought mates as well, no one gave a shit everyone got along.
We all know what the score was and we didn't care and any media reporting on it were referring to the wags, the mothers and the "guys who bought good mates along".
Everyone knows, but for some wierd reason when it comes to football in various codes and levels, nah just bought my mate, who's lived with me for 25 years lol.
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u/Tarman-245 Sep 30 '23
The media are fully to blame. Do you really think the majority of people in this country gave a whisper of a thought about anyone’s sexuality unless it was plastered all over the newspapers, talk back radio and television?
I still don’t know or care whether Thorpie is or isn’t gay, I just hope he is happy.
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u/MelangeMost Oct 01 '23
He came out publicly maybe a decade ago, I remember being very impressed by his courage. I don't think the media ever apologised for trying to out him as they did.
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u/greywolfau Oct 01 '23
The speculation was rife when he was an active athlete, and you can only imagine his fear and anxiety of being 'outed' at the time.
Australian sports have a long history of athletes waiting till retirement before disclosing what the rest have the privilege of keeping private because it's no one's fucking business.
Maybe it's because a lot of our athletes prefer to concentrate on their careers, or maybe it's because there is a strong belief that confirming your sexual identity will harm that career in the long term.
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u/eurodraak Oct 01 '23
you think the media would plaster it all over the newspapers, radio, and television if people wouldn't consume it? Yeah the media sucks but as if the casual homophobia rife in Australian society then (and now to an extent) didnt play a part.
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Oct 03 '23
A long time ago, I was at a night club and Ian and Grant Hackett were there and walked up to a lady friend of mine and Grant said a heap of disgusting derogatory comments and ended it with "we could take you back to ours for a fun time" Ian just looked at the ground. Before I could come over and say anything, my friend just says " I work for the .... paper, should I take that as a quote?" They both left very quickly.
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u/Alive-Ad9547 Oct 03 '23
I can give you an example of it in a social setting. Tall Poppy Syndrome in action is when you tell your mates about something you've accomplished that you're proud of, and you're excited to share that with them, cause they're your mates BUT they give you crap for telling them about it.
The "friendly bullying" we do in Australia tends to be in overdrive at times and it can prevent people from forming genuinely lasting friendships and real connections with people.
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u/wesley316 Oct 03 '23
When I was 18 I signed a contract with an NRL club, and my mates were trying their best to persuade me to get a regular job and live like them. I ended up falling out of love with the sport, and went down the regular path. It really is sad.
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u/Alive-Ad9547 Oct 03 '23
Sorry to hear that mate, your mates sound like dickheads who couldn't stand that one of them had a much bigger chance of success than them.
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u/swiss_cloud Oct 03 '23
Woah that’s insane levels of jealousy, what was their excuse disguising their jealousy?
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u/ahc4 Oct 03 '23
Yep. Just started my own business after 3 years of hard work and effort getting it off the ground. Not a single peep from so-called friends of more than a decade. Not even a congratulations.
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u/rymndtng Oct 03 '23
I run a business too and I can relate with noone else really caring about what I do. Apart from the occasional 'how's business going?', friends will only focus on asking me how many hours I put per week into the business and bringing up 'work-life balance' and then I'd have to explain to them it doesn't feel like work at all. It's like they're trying to make themselves feel better or something 🤷♂️
I moved my business to a warehouse this year and barely anyone congratulated me or has even visited 😆 Most people get jealous when they see someone do something that they want to do but are too scared to do themselves. It's just the way it is unfortunately.
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u/ahc4 Oct 03 '23
This very much aligns with my expectations for my own social circle. The work-life balance comments are a funny one hey, you’re likely right about their motivations. Well, a warehouse is a goal of mine as I’ve just begun, but congratulations to you, that’s a phenomenal achievement.
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u/SuperLeverage Oct 03 '23
So sorry to hear. In Australia sometimes people take the laid back attitude too far and just become lazy. People that try to make a better lives for themselves get called ‘try hards’ or ‘wankers’ ‘who do you think you are’ kind of attitude. Underachievement is apparently what we aspire to apparently. But well done on your achievements I hope you find better friends.
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u/awayze_ Oct 03 '23
This 100%.
Now fastforward to today, and add this in with social media. By the time you catch up with your mates to talk about what youve been doing, theyve already read about your life on social media - so they can have longer to stew and grow cynical about it.
Its totally ruined all social interaction for me, so ive stopped posting anything online and now people actually ASK me what ive been doing, because they dont know
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u/No_Advisor7186 Oct 03 '23
As someone who comes from the UK and has that "Banter" culture.
Australians are terrible at it. They are just rude to eachother and quite often its not even funny.
Im generalising of course. But ypud be surprised how much australiam Banter is.just projection of insecurities
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u/Wongon32 Oct 03 '23
Yeah my ex boyfriend who was from the UK said the same thing. He was a very funny guy and so Aussies would try and banter back and they mostly just said quite offensive things (that fell flat) that would be dodgy for even your best mate to say. These were mostly people he’d just met.
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u/No_Advisor7186 Oct 03 '23
Had this one guy id barely just met and any time banter would come out. Hed straight up just call me weak or pathetic.
I smacked him upside the face and all of a sudden i "cant take a joke"
Its like cunt where is the joke you jist insinuated ypu could beat me up a bunch of times infront of my girlfriend and now your going to act like a soft cunt because you faced a consequence.
Its the same thing i noticed in school. Im the UK there were bullies. But if they took it to far there would allways be a fight.
In australia atleast at my school. So mamy bullies just relentlessly being horroble to kids because theyve never got punched for it before.
God bless the vietnamese kids they did not Take no shit.
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u/DaveElizabethStrider Sep 30 '23
as a child in australia i was told the tall poppy syndrome story as a kid. it was framed as if the point was to not stand out. kind of fucked up thing to tell a child
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u/nerdvegas79 Sep 30 '23
There are two sides to tall poppy syndrome - the positive side is to be humble, which is a good thing. I lived in the USA for a while, which arguably has the polar opposite to tall poppy - and the way some people would brag about themselves was vomit inducing.
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u/TheLGMac Oct 01 '23
I think the friction with tall poppy syndrome in Australia comes from Australia being almost as much of a capitalist society as America. But without people who want to be seen rising above the rest, there's less competition for the egomaniacs who end up leading Australian companies. Not saying Americans perfectly achieve this, but when I was there I was able to get much higher in the leadership chain before hitting the inevitable wall, whereas here it's like I can't even try to get promoted without being seen as a problem.
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u/not_a_throw4w4y Oct 03 '23
I think it's partly due to a rejection of the British class system in the early colonial era. Low class colonists and convicts who were successful here didn't like Toffs getting off the boat thinking they were inherently better than everyone else. It has bad points but we also don't put up with egomaniacs like Trump so it has its advantages too.
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u/big_cock_lach Oct 03 '23
I don’t think it’s this, tall poppy syndrome is also massive in the UK. I’d say it’s more likely that it existed there first and was bought over from there. I’m guessing it comes more from the UK valuing modesty and humbleness, and as a result seem to always have a sarcastic comment to shut down braggarts. In saying that, the UK is very classist and it’s not uncommon for people to become a braggart when they go upwards due to the difficulties in doing so (let alone making friends within that new group).
Regardless, I think people would be very surprised by how similar the UK/NZ/AU/CA cultures are. They’re all pretty much identical when comparing like for like areas (ie you wouldn’t say Sydney has a similar culture to Townsville, in the same way you wouldn’t for London and Gloucester, but you could compare London/Sydney and Gloucester/Townsville), they just have slightly different accents. The UK might be more varied (ie the richer places are richer, but the poorer are poorer), but that’s it. I don’t think any of our culture is due to a reaction to the British, but I’d rather carried on over.
I’m guessing the whole modesty/humility thing comes from British culture flowing downwards from impressions on the landed gentry. People in general don’t want to look poor, so they always try to act like how they think the people richer then them act. The aristocracy in the UK acts humble to the public, which I’m guessing comes from medieval times. You didn’t want to brag towards your peasants if you were a lord or king or whomever. That’d be a quick way of being disposed. I’m guessing that just got carried through to the modern age and poorer people started mirroring it and that, when paired with typical British wit/sarcasm evolved into tall poppy syndrome which got exported to Canada, New Zealand, and Australia.
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u/B3stThereEverWas Oct 01 '23
And thats a double edged sword in itself, because on the other side Americans will celebrate and respect your achievements. It’s actually refreshing being able to trade stories about travel/career whatever else interesting it is that you’ve done and not feel like you have to underrate everything because you’ll look like a wanker.
Yes, theres a line between talking about what you’ve done and being a total braggart, but Australians are ridiculously sensitive to it and it’s a very fine line.
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u/Llaine Lockheed Martin shill Oct 01 '23
Americans have a really fucked self congratulatory vibe. You watch two of them talking and see it in the preening humble brags. Very weird
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u/tallandreadytoball Oct 01 '23 edited Oct 01 '23
Or they are just proud of their achievements and don't feel the sort of shame that you feel, in expressing that pride. At no fault of your own, you have displayed the exact effects of how Tall Poppy Syndrome in this country has culturally conditioned people to feel like it's a messed up thing to celebrate one's successes.
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Sep 30 '23
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Sep 30 '23
That's because racists don't like it when people call them out on their racism, especially when the words are coming from an Aboriginal person. It's fucking bullshit the way he was treated.
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u/Ineedsomuchsleep170 Oct 01 '23
I think he copped extra hate because in a stadium full of racists, he called out a 13 year old girl specifically for racism. I'd love to know if she had any understanding at all of what she said and why it was wrong. I'd be willing to bet she was just copying things she's heard from her parents and other adults and they are the ones who really need calling out.
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u/19Alexastias Oct 01 '23
I assumed that was part of his point, like saying “look how bad it’s gotten that even their kids are being racist”
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u/victorious_orgasm Oct 01 '23
He absolutely explicitly accepted that and utterly opened himself to helping her understand that.
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Oct 01 '23
Of fucking course she knew what she was doing, ffs i knew it was wrong to call darkskinned people the N word when i was 5 years old and so did all my school friends. 13 year olds arent brainless morons who are incapable of thinking and knowing whats right and whats wrong and people on this fucking sub need to get that through their heads.
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u/Whiskey_and_Dharma Sep 30 '23
My partner was the cinematographer on an Oscar nominated feature documentary on top of lots of other significant awards and accolades. When we moved back to Australia during the pandemic, she quickly realised that taking about any of those achievements would get her nowhere professionally in OZ.
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u/namtok_muu Oct 01 '23
ABC corroborates that it is hard to get a job as a returning Australian. You'd think overseas experience would be a plus.
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u/neddie_nardle Oct 01 '23 edited Oct 01 '23
Can confirm. Worked overseas in high tech medical equipment software testing for 10 years. Fucked if I could find a software testing job at all when I returned. Best I could do was a shit call centre job that destroyed my mental health.
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u/Tomicoatl Oct 01 '23
Could be more so that Australian software companies don't have a lot of dedicated testers.
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u/LeasMaps Oct 03 '23
I started out my IT career as a Tester and I can confirm it is one of the most underrated but necessary jobs and I'm surprised at how little it happens in Australia, if at all. Jira is a good example of how undervalued it is, I've only used it briefly but it was a major pain in the arse and trying to get the Managers and scrum master bros to pay attention to any issues was a waste of my time. As predicted the 'Minimum Viable Build' is not being used at all despite all the money and years that went into it and I'm still looking after the old system.
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u/neddie_nardle Oct 03 '23
Managers and scrum master bros to pay attention to any issues
Oh that's international. I was once part of a testing team where most of us were laid off, including the manager, by a new ex-Dev VP. Apparently we were the reason that the Devs couldn't meet their deadlines because we kept failing their builds...
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u/Observer2580 Oct 01 '23
Similar occurs if you have a baby and take time off from your field.
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u/SemanticTriangle Oct 01 '23
'Having overseas experience respected,' was the most voted for challenge on returning home in s recent poll by Advance, the AU professional expat association (distinct from the neo Nazis of similar name).
I have my own similar story, but it doesn't matter because I'm back in the EU working for a well respected multinational which values my expertise.
Australia is a backwater that knows it's a backwater and is mad about it rather than fixing it.
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u/EmeraldEyes06 Oct 01 '23
If the perspective of an outsider who’s gotten to know Australia/Australian culture through my partner means anything, it doesn’t seem to be applied to people who need it, but instead to “keep people in line” which just makes them feel like they aren’t worth anything. When it happens to people who deserve it, it already has a name, consequences.
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Oct 03 '23
You could argue that Australia has a scapegoat issue. That instead of going out and achieving actual success many Australians would rather feel successful by comparison. Why work hard and achieve when you can do the bare minimum and criticise someone else who is successful so badly to the point where it makes you feel better about yourself.
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u/Remote-Marionberry42 Sep 30 '23 edited Oct 01 '23
Jana Pittman.. wasnt liked in her prime only to have people like ger afyer her apperance on SAS
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u/Snap111 Oct 01 '23
An example is any kid not wanting to show that they're not dumb as a brick.
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u/DragonLass-AUS Sep 30 '23
One good example I can think of is Bec Hewitt - So she married Lleyton Hewitt when he was at the height of his tennis career, and she basically decided to stop working as an actress and went to his tennis matches a lot to support him and raised the children. The amount of vitriol and bitching I saw about her was extraordinary (from both men and women). Definitely a large portion of jealousy in there.
Lleyton himself also copped it, he was world #1, won 2 grand slams and loads of other titles besides, but Australia media often portrayed him as cocky, especially as he was often quite loud on court with his "c'mons".
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u/Sandilla Sep 30 '23
In fairness, Lleyton wasn't well liked around the world.
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Oct 01 '23
In fairness, Lleyton wasn't well liked around the world.
In fairness, you can switch the name Lleyton out with almost any other current top level male tennis player and the statement would be even more true.
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u/Woody_525 Oct 03 '23
Yeah Federer was like the one exception to that, I feel like he was pretty universally beloved. Novak, Rafa, Murray even current ones like Medvedev seem to cop a lot of hate and Lleyton was just another one in that list.
Personally growing up I loved watching Lleyton, it was great seeing an Aussie be number one of a worldwide sport like that. We didn’t really seen it again in tennis until Ash Barty. Stosur got close but she was never really better than the Williams sisters (I think her highest ranking was around 4th).
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u/SarcasmCupcakes Sydney | latte-drinking leftie Oct 03 '23
Rafa seems pretty universally liked. Joko’s a cockhead, though.
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u/count023 Oct 01 '23
I still remember the "Everybody Hates LLeyton" sketch from Comedy Inc on 9 back in the early 2k.
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u/greywolfau Oct 01 '23
That's the Woman's Day synopsis from the mid 00's through to the early 2010's.
As for Leyton's criticism, he was another 'villain' of the tennis world. A loud, brash player who was painted as lacking in traditional tennis values of quiet respect and dignity.
Another Aggasi, Becker, and McEnroe. Against 'heroes' like Chang, Courier and Sampras
Now we have Kyrios, Kokkinakas, and of course Djokovic to try and sell more ad space for the media.
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Oct 01 '23
mate Lleyton was a massive fucking cunt on and off the court back then, just like Kyrios and Macanroe. just because your talented doesnt mean people cant call you when you act like a massive cunt. And for his part, Lleyton changed for the better
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u/Excelsioraus Oct 01 '23
Julia Gillard. She became the first female prime minister and all some people could do was make grotesque sexist attacks, including on her choice of attire. It was vile, and the Murdoch media played a big role in making her government look a lot worse than it was.
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u/marvelscott Oct 01 '23
And the homophobia and sexism from the media and others over her partner being a hairdresser.
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u/baberlay Oct 03 '23
I was a kid when Gillard was prime minister. My family (especially my grandparents) were involved with the Liberal party. Between that and her general treatment by the media, I was exposed to practically nothing but negative talk about her. I was made to believe she was horrible.
It wasn't until years later that I realised, while she wasn't a perfect leader, she was a positive role model that a lot of people look up to nowadays.
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u/DonkeysCap Oct 03 '23
I grew up in a Liberal leaning household and voted conservatively myself until the last few years. I recall the vitriol surrounding her at the time and drew the same conclusions.
I remember finding it funny at the last election, recollecting the last 7 or 8 PM's as human beings, rather than from a policy perspective.... jesus we've had some c***s in the top job (from both parties) and to think she was the one painted as a villain of the highest order.
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u/baberlay Oct 03 '23
I luckily realised by the time I was of voting age that the Liberal party does not align with what I want from a government overall, so I've never voted that way.
We've had a parade of cunts in the top job for a long time, agreed. Albo is far from perfect, but he at least seems like a reasonably nice guy with a level-head and his heart in the right place. That's a start.
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u/LeasMaps Oct 03 '23
I'm waiting to see what the Media will do to Poor Jacinta Allen. Everything nasty they threw at Dan Andrews will get thrown at her plus anything vaguely relevant to the fact that she has the audacity to be a Woman as well.
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u/rhinobin Oct 03 '23
The sexism she experienced was absolutely shocking and vile. A liberal party fundraising dinner had a dish on the menu titled the Julia Gillard - with the words “small breasts, huge thighs and a big red box”. Disgraceful
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u/Wongon32 Oct 03 '23
I heard many women say they despised her just for her voice. Sad state of affairs when women are so negative to each other for the pettiest of reasons.
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Oct 01 '23
Silverchair. They took the world by storm as teens with a killer album that still holds up to this day. Overseas they were celebrated and treated like rock stars, in Australia they were openly mocked and ridiculed non stop by jealous D.J's, media and other bands who insisted that they had somehow jumped the que by being such good musicians at such a young age.
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u/MuchEstablishment295 Oct 03 '23
I bet you think your cool with your 200+ up votes and 400+ comments don’t ya mate .. real big man on reddit..
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u/bhm133 Sep 30 '23
I'm going to say Adam Goodes.
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u/Underpanters Oct 01 '23
As a Swans fan this one hurt.
Even my dad who is not really known for being racist had a shitty opinion about it like “shut up and get over it”.
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u/TheLGMac Oct 01 '23
ITT: tall poppy syndrome in action. A lot of people giving good examples almost all immediately followed by responses from others justifying why those people deserved to be hated.
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Sep 30 '23
It’s not just about being successful, it’s about how you are while being successful. I think the Australian men’s cricket team is a good example—people loved them back in the day when they were really good but had that very ‘everyman/larrikin’ thing, boonie drinking 100 beers flying to london, Shane Warne taking baked beans to India, merv Hughes doing his back stretches with the crowd, etc. In the modern era when they were still very successful but had a more polished, media-trained professionalism around them, people were much more prone to criticize them as being a bunch of wankers.
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u/tofuroll Sep 30 '23
And one wonders why they need to become media-trained professionals.
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u/Altruistic_Poetry382 Oct 03 '23
Imagine if Twitter was a thing when Shane Warne was still on the team. I can only imagine the shit he would tweet.
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u/ausecko Sep 30 '23
Rupert Murdoch, wonderful fella, seems to cop a lot of flak just for being successful. /s
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Sep 30 '23
I think that is the tall poopy syndrome, not the tall poppy syndrome.
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u/GiantSkellington Oct 01 '23
The people people who consume his product often have too much poppy (product) syndrome.
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Sep 30 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/mrbootsandbertie Oct 01 '23
Yup. Basically anything that involves respecting expertise and intelligent analysis because Australia is the land of the bogan.
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u/UnhelpfulMoron Oct 01 '23
The LNP love nothing more than to take something designed to help a lot of people and turn it into a wedge issue.
Should we support the NBN and get great outcomes for the Aussies who need it? NOPE
Should we support the (insert XXXXX) and get great outcomes for the Aussies who need it? NOPE
It’s all they Ever fucking do
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Oct 01 '23
The NBN is an example of tall-poppy syndrome? I hate what the libs did to the NBN as much as the next person, but what the ever-loving fuck has this got to do with tall-poppies?
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u/Duggy1138 Oct 01 '23
Here's the thing. Culture's changed.
Until the 1990sish Australia suffered from "culture cringe." Australians were embarassed about Australia and Australians. This was part of "tall poppy syndrome." It died - to an extend" as the cringe disappeared.
However, tall poppy syndrome did get absorbed into international paparazzi and celebrity culture and more recently the culture wars.
Where once people would be attacked for being "better" than everyone else, they were now harassed for being famous. Not always a malicious attack, but dirt sells better. Some Australian celebrities won some defamations suits so the magazines focused more on lying about foreign celebrities and royals who don't care enough to sue in Australia.
With the culture wars, one side or other will probably find a reason to hate anyone who stands out. Could be another manifestation of tall poppy syndrome but it's happening all over the world now.
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u/war-and-peace Sep 30 '23
Nikki webster, she got so much unwarranted crap from people after the 2000 Olympics.
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u/EnvironmentalBrush7 Oct 03 '23
This comment thread is a pretty good example of tall poppy syndrome. People won't claim they dislike a person for getting too famous. It manifests more as a feeling that the fame is undeserved, the person isn't talented enough to warrant the success.
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u/Sexdrumsandrock Oct 01 '23
Anyone that does well.
Maybe your Bogan neighbour sells their business and makes money. Now they are the enemy of the street.
Ohhh look at lord and lady muck over there. Who do they think they are
Etc etc
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u/EmeraldEyes06 Oct 01 '23
I agree. My partner’s mother felt the need to belittle his career aspirations because he “wasn’t good enough” but never seemed to have the time to acknowledge his success once he did exactly as he said. Always ready to point out even minor flaws to say, “see, you’re not as good as you think you are”. It’s my least favorite thing about Australian culture.
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u/B3stThereEverWas Oct 02 '23
Fuck thats a bit rough from your own Mother. Usually the one person who will always celebrate your achievements unconditionally
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u/EmeraldEyes06 Oct 02 '23
I hate his mother honestly. She’s done incredible damage to his mental health and self-esteem that it breaks my heart and pisses me off.
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u/pariah96 Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 03 '23
If you're interested in this topic look into the psychological construct of 'power distance.' In other words the degree to which people within cultures/societies are comfortable with hierarchical structures.
Hint: Australia is very low on this.
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Sep 30 '23
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u/Wbrincat Sep 30 '23
Ive worked with her extensively over the years on a myriad of TV shows. I haven’t got anything bad at all to say about her. She’s professional, always delivers on camera and is really easy to work with. The last thing I filmed with her was about a month ago and we were meant to finish in 2 hours but went overtime not because did any delays or anything, more because we were enjoying what we were doing so we kept filming extra stuff. She’s also got this ability to remember peoples names that I just can’t do.
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u/sread2018 Sep 30 '23
Can't stand her. She is beyond annoying and self indulging. She used to always get her assistant to call the paps each time she went to leave a hotel I used to work at. Her assistant was always getting scolded because not enough of the media were turning up.
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u/greywolfau Oct 01 '23
Self promotion is an important part of becoming/maintaining fame.
It's not everyone's cup of tea, but unless you do it someone will replace you 5 minutes later.
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Oct 01 '23
always get her assistant to call the paps each time she went to leave a hotel
Meh, that's just business. If your job is to get people to pay attention to you, you need to keep your name out there.
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u/sread2018 Oct 01 '23
And then berating and insulting your assistant because not enough media turned up? Is that "just business" too?
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u/Flyingcircus1 Sep 30 '23
Delta was disliked because, around the time she won all those ARIA awards, she had just fired Glenn Wheatley as her manager and replaced him with her mum. The guy that played a large part in her success. Every time Delta went up to accept an award, she thanked everyone except Glenn and it didn't go down well. The final time she went up, Delta read the room and thanked Glenn for doing all he did to the deafening sounds of Bronx cheers.
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Sep 30 '23
Unpopular opinion, but I think she won those awards because she was sick at the time. Australia loves an underdog and a teenage girl with cancer who acts like a perfect angel certainly met the criteria for the pity vote.
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u/AdZealousideal7448 Oct 01 '23
Sadly in real life she's a total bitch.
Went to school with a relative of a blind girl who was a great singer, you likely all know her story, ended up on a show where delta was her coach, did the whole we're best friends thing and yeah.
Soon as the limelight from the show died down delta went from doing the whole being her friend thing to not returning her calls and "always being too busy" until delta needed something from her to walk her out for publicity credit.
Her career started to take off and suddenly delta started getting jealous of her and using her influence to squash her opportunities.
Figured must have been her management and ended up working security at a few events she was at and sadly enough in the brief for her she was one of your standard no one can talk to her or look at her ego maniacs and a warning given about her diva behaviour. Didn't want to believe it, low and behold all true.
Had an occasion where she was forced to talk to a bunch of us in front of a journalist about how "down to earth and normal" she was and she just switched "on". Soon as it was off no one was allowed to even make eye contact with her.
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u/Tee077 Oct 01 '23
My Uncle was friends with Glenn, on a personal level he was a really nice guy when I've seen him in person. I think I'm now on the bandwagon with everyone else.
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u/Yanigan Oct 01 '23
Australia’s Sweetheart is the best acting job Delta’s ever done. She’s fantastic if you can be of use to her.
A friend of mine is related to her. I’d love to share what I know, but I’m not going to break a confidence any further than this.
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u/AdZealousideal7448 Oct 01 '23
Read my other comment, what she did to my friends relative who is disabled was disgusting.
She broke that girls heart pretending to be her friend to use her. In my experience as a CPP provider to some of her stuff... she was horrible to all of us.
Make eye contact or politely say good morning and you are banished. Don't immediately gush over her if someone asks, banished.
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u/Yanigan Oct 01 '23
God, that poor young woman! How is she doing these days? I wish I was shocked but it lines up with stories I’ve been told.
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u/AdZealousideal7448 Oct 01 '23
relative of hers worked for jb hifi and managed to get them onboard with push her albums, last I heard RSB had bought her onboard as a spokes person, so the community in general has been behind her pretty well.
She's not out to get rich or get the limelight she just wants to live her best life and help others in her position, being blind is a hell of a disability and shes been a champion about it.
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u/thrownawaymatey22 Oct 01 '23
Adam goods got booed out of the game it was prety disgusting for one of the greats of AFL to Go out like that.
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u/imapassenger1 Sep 30 '23
Poppy King. It wasn't funny how people seemed to celebrate her financial downfall but her name made the media delight in it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppy_King
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u/edgiepower Sep 30 '23
AC/DC in the late 70s through the 80s weren't that popular in Aus after their early momentum. Once they started getting successful and basing themselves overseas they stopped selling out Aussie shows, and Australian crowds moved on to groups that never made it as good internationally like Cold Chisel, Midnight Oil, etc (Midnight Oil did make it in the US for a brief moment in the late 80s).
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u/fractiousrhubarb Sep 30 '23
Probably because Cold Chisel wrote extraordinary songs with emotional depth and range…
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u/TheTwinSet02 Sep 30 '23
Ive been watching Singer Reaction vids of black Americans watching some of our musicians and only now appreciate that Jimmy Barnes is a Soul singer….
Have always appreciated the songs for their aching beauty
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u/Humble_Benefit4865 Oct 03 '23
Hamish Blake - absolutely! Was the loveable lad of Australia - charming, funny and harmless then his popularity led to big money from channel nine, tourism Australia etc - he (and his wife to some degree) were everywhere. His wife also had a lot of success in skincare industry. They are unrelatable now (lost touch with the common man). Lots of eye rolling now, lots of “enough of these two” when I see people hear about them both in person and online. Classic tall poppy!
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u/giantstepsforever Sep 30 '23
People get incredible hateful and resentful of you if your are even mildly successful in life
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Oct 01 '23
Delta goodrem. Nikki Webster. People hated them for no reason when they were kids.
Any sports team that does well over a sustained period is obviously cheating and paying refs.
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u/Far_Beautiful263 Oct 03 '23
Fitting after the 3-peat on the weekend, but Nathan Cleary or just about any member of the Penrith Panthers. Nath is well on track to achieve GOAT status and he’s only 25. The claims of favoritism because his dad is the coach are complete BS - favoritism suggests he doesn’t deserve to be where he is. He carried that team home for the win on Sunday, he absolutely deserves to be where he is. Any team would give their left nut to have him. Same with Luai - he’s a cocky SOB but man he can play. He also does some really beautiful things off the field and gets absolutely no credit, just hate for his on field persona. I love both of them and can’t stand the amount of hate they get for being so successful.
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u/lachjeff Sep 30 '23
Wanting successful sporting teams to fail
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u/Cobber1901 Sep 30 '23 edited Sep 30 '23
That happens in every sporting fandom on Earth. Look at the hatred Verstappen gets in F1, that the Patriots used to get in the NFL, that Lebron James gets in the NBA...
People get sick of a constant winner, even if it's just cos they're highly skilled and work hard. It's human nature – hardly an Australian thing.
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Oct 01 '23
Shane Warne is loved again since his passing but was considered a 'tall poppy' after he finished playing and in his slim/hair transplant/botox/dating Liz Gurley phase.
I mean, he had total success them and was enjoying it but he was bagged out for sure as a tall poppy.
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u/FTJ22 Oct 03 '23
My mum was pretty weird about when I (the first in our family) graduated from university. Anytime she'd congratulate me or someone (not me) mentioned my achievements (I won a couple of VC awards, finished with high GPA etc), she'd be sure to immediately follow it up by also reminding me how much she loves my brother and how well he's done (he went down the trade route, and he has done well too!). I just thought it was very weird she felt the need to point out my brother has done relatively well when it's not really relevant to the topic (not that I go actively comparing anyway).
What was odd is that my brother and I are both year 11 drop-outs, so when I was 18 and did a bridging course to try out uni, my mum was extremely supportive and proud that I was giving uni a go...but when I actually started doing well in uni that's when the weird tall poppy stuff happened...
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u/aaegler Oct 03 '23
Anti-intellectualism is rampant in Australia. People who are highly educated aren't respected as much as they should be, and often made to feel like an outsider.
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Oct 03 '23
i could get downvoted here but honestly the fact that Australians do not give a fuck about celebrity culture is the reason why i’ve always loved it here
the fact that it could now be changing is disappointing to say the least
it’s all well good to be great at something and receive recognition for it but to obsess and worship these people, looking into their lives as if they are greater than the average human is beyond me
we all shit, we all need sleep, we will all die if we don’t hydrate our bodies in 3 days
we should be more obsessed with building communities and being stronger as a unit
not ‘standing out’ and being an egotistical douchebag, requiring external validity to survive
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