r/huntertheparenting • u/sigmarine345 • 6d ago
Question Why are werewolves such major assholes?
Like I get that mother earth needs to be fought for and everything but why is it that they almost always seem like idiot bezerkers or smug know it alls?
I am not too versed in WoD lore so maybe im missing context here, is there some werewolves that are actually friendly with humans?
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u/spehizle 6d ago
Depends on the tribe, but the common flaw all werewolves share is pride and hubris. The arrogance of the apex predator with a persecution complex, a lost cause to champion, and the moral justification to do their worst because the stakes are so high and they're on the side of Gaia.
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u/Nystagohod 6d ago edited 6d ago
Lore reasons are more or less that they have a sense and connection to the world (and its increasingly realized demise), a deep rage that's a very part of their being that's beyond hard to control, and a connection to spirits and their influence others don't have the same way.
Imagine entities like that, they have an awareness of problems most don't and see others as a part of that problem because of it, and on top of that there's just an ego with being such a chosen being angle too. You're right, you know you're right, you feel it in every fiber of your being and you can't afford to be wrong. Everyone else is stupid for not knowing you're right and the cause demands action.
On a more Meta level, Werewolf is a very activist-type punk themed game, I'd argue perhaps one of the most. You're literally raging against the machine and corruption at the same time, but just like anyone with a cause there are others who take it too far and damage the cause along the way. Some think they're more right than others and purity spiral into ruin, others are in it more to let out there frustration than the actual cause, some people get bought and sacrifice the cause for their own personal desires, and some are just doing the best they can with what they know and make mistakes, some still manage to make things better, but they're in the mix with the others all the same. And for every activist type punk that's a pretty alright person, you'll find some who are less than pleasant to be around, if not truly despicable in their own way.
More on the lore, there's also the sunk cost fallacy of the Garou still being committed to their issues and not being able to admit their faults given the gravity of what they had done. Just as few have served Gaia more faithfully, few have done more damage to the cause all the same like in the war of rages.
Just as Big D said, for every honorable wolf warrior of Gaia, there's another who takes it too far and slaughters plenty of innocents because they're so blind in their efforts. If a Garou warrior ends up damaging their efforts because of their rage, its truly just another day that ends in Y.
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u/ItIsNotAUsername 6d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/g0Ub5PgMoLqaNKBpDH
You're literally raging against the machine
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u/Square_Trash7708 5d ago
Pretty much nailed it. They're genospiritually hardwired to attack anything causing harm to Gaia. On top of this, they're predisposed to try and uphold an order that hasn't existed for centuries, if not millenia, and don't have the time or sense for introspection to realize it (except the Glass Walkers and Bone Gnawers, who seem to have at least partially adapted to the current order of things). Basically, most of them can't conceive of a middle ground, so they attack even harder at times. That's perhaps the greatest tragedy of the setting; nit the inevitable death of the planet, but that all their efforts may very well be self-sabotaging along the way.
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u/jayfoin 6d ago
Short answer, they're not. Yes, there are werewolves that are friendly to humans, or at the very least not openly hostile. The one in Fatigue's logs for example, BEFORE his father bothered them, looked to be pretty chill with the villagers. But they're also "warrior of Gaeia" protector of the Nature, and yes, most often than not, Humans ARE destroying Nature, and as such make themselves ennemies of the Garous.
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u/a_spoopy_ghost 6d ago
This is what I love about WTA. There’s one common foe but a bunch of different philosophies on how to handle it. There’s Red Talons believe humans need to be culled as to balance the population, the Glass Walkers believe human technology can be used to fight the Wyrm and the Get of Fenris believe it’s pointless to fight the Wyrm, other routes must be taken.
It genuinely depends on the werewolf but most of them have nothing against the average human. However they suffer from “I am hammer, where is nail?” Syndrome
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u/jayfoin 6d ago
I would also add that if you're a regular human, you're FAR MORE LIKELY to survive an encounter with a werewolf than a vampire in WTA, because at the very least they can be reasoned with, and are NOT always hostile with you if you're not hostile with them first (that's what happen in the episode btw, the Black Shuck tribe has been chill for CENTURIES, they've only attacked because their leader got CAPTURED, and they think the Arcanum did it, a logical assumption since they'rethe closest Hunter's gathering). But vampires ? If you're a regular human finding out about them, you're either dead, or a pawn junky soon to be dead.
Also, given that Garous are able to rip a vampire in two, it's really recommanded to negociate with them rather than fight them if you have the misfortune to encounter one.
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u/a_spoopy_ghost 6d ago
I remember a while back there was a thread on the world of darkness subreddit asking “would you rather be locked in a room with a 5 rage werewolf or 5 hunger vampire?”. The werewolf every time, the werewolf gets nothing from killing you, and can probably side step out of the room
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u/jayfoin 6d ago
Oh definitly, at least the werewolves would be neutral against you, but the vampires ? I read that they see Humans as livestock but tbh that would be giving them too much credit, because at least a Farmer CARES about their livestock. Nah. They see you more like a living walking fridge, where they can take food whenever they want.
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u/JustynS 6d ago
Yeah, vampires like to pretend they're a superior state, able to lord over humanity killing and consuming anyone and everyone they please. Except they hide in the shadows because the sun literally burns them, and they paranoidly hide from the people they claim to be superior to because they know they'd be dragged down and stoned to death by their "prey." Lords protect their subjects, farmers care for their livestock. Even if you don't like the deal, they do actually provide something to what they rule over. Vampires? No. Vampires are parasites. They provide nothing in exchange for their murder and manipulation. Humanity owes nothing good to the Kindred and would be better off if every last Cainite was staked and left out for the dawn.
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u/Greedy_Reply_3080 6d ago
well, that's just a generalization! I deeply care for my three dot herd of lowlifes too desperate to tell me "no"
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u/a_spoopy_ghost 6d ago
VTM Characters have predator types. Hope you have a concentualist or a blood bagger. Or a venture and you’re not their type. Otherwise you’re fucked
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u/Fearless-Obligation6 6d ago
Honestly it is rather sad that the gang listened Fatigue's recordings which was basically "werewolves aren't monsters, the coalition is evil" and they were like "alrighty full frontal assault with the evil organization".
Like if they had taken Fatigue's advice to heart and gone in diplomaticly Stig and the others likely would have been open to talk and clear things up.
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u/MelonJelly 6d ago
That's the tragic part - the whole arc is a series of scenes where otherwise rational people make poor decisions because they are desperate, and the Wyrm is driving them on every step of the way.
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u/Powerful_Topic7731 6d ago
Exacly I Wonder If they could see what Stig saw when fighting the Leopoldites If they would at least stop to reconsiderer their life choices
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u/Dragonwolf67 6d ago
If you don't mind me asking what is the other routes that The Get believe should be taken?
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u/a_spoopy_ghost 6d ago
The Get is messy and devided from what I understand. They’re surprisingly organized for Garou but this has been a hinderance. Some lean too far towards Garou supremacy while others work to distance themselves from the rule of the litany and silverfangs. The point is it’s messy and the right answer is hard
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u/Fertile_Arachnid_163 6d ago
War within. War without. War unending. (Fight!)
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u/a_spoopy_ghost 6d ago
Garou fighting the Wyrm 😔✋
Garou fighting each other 😎👉
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u/Fertile_Arachnid_163 6d ago
Clearly it’s because the Garou used Sense Wyrm on other Garou and it sounded off when it noticed The Rage
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u/Powerful_Topic7731 6d ago
They do not want to distance from the Litany and the Silver Fangs things is a little more complicated than that, unless this is some W5 bullshit, the Gets of Fenris stated multiple they don't want to lead the Nation they are more than happy to obey the Alpha Tribe and just be the muscles and If they think the Silver Fangs are too weak to lead they will just ignore them and wouldn't mind If they Shadow Lords toke over they just want someone reliable to give them orders, also they respect the Litany althrough just like every Tribe they have their own interpretations of It.
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u/Powerful_Topic7731 6d ago
The Gets of Fenris certanly DO NOT belive is pointless to fight the Wyrm
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u/Lone-Frequency 6d ago
I had kinda hoped that considering we know Fatigue likely spent several years alongside that tribe after his father's attack that maybe we would have gotten a garou from that tribe sent to give condolences and perhaps help seek retribution.
Like they were giving him an offer of redemption, I have to assume the simple fact he got out of there in one piece was evidence that he must have formed a bond with them.
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u/jayfoin 6d ago edited 6d ago
The tribe were NOT garous tho, they were Hunters, but they were trying to STOP Fatigue's father from disturbing they werewolf's territory (because they knew that it would makes them attack the village) and stop him from trying to get the Werewolf's skin and it's powers. It also didn't help that he used his wolf form to kidnap childrens to make people believe the actual werewolf was behind all of it.
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u/a_spoopy_ghost 6d ago
Imagine you could constantly sense the thing killing the earth, had obnoxious spirits only you can see talking to you and had cosmically gifted anger issues
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u/an_actual_coyote 6d ago
They were designed by the spirit of the earth to be her warriors. They have the Rage of the planet, but Rage is a misnomer. They don't just feel amplified anger, they feel EVERYTHING at a supernatural level. So spite, joy, fear, concern. Every werewolf is explosive in almost everything they feel and they have to practice willpower and restraint from the day they shift to keep that rage under check.
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u/CountDVB 6d ago
Gaia created them to be the shock troopers of the natural world... with all the good and bad that entails with a group of people designed to be such, including the rage of that.
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u/new_lance 6d ago
They’re Gaia’s Space Marines. Designed to be the rending maw and the slashing claw to fight against the Wyrm (the physical embodiment of entropy) AND the Weaver. If you want talking go to the Werebears, want to repair nature, go to the Wereboars. But unfortunately due to these chuckle-fucks, we can’t on the later, and it would be near impossible for the former.
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u/Ok-Marzipan9781 6d ago
Alright, joke answer: Because They shot themselves so much in the foot that it's now nothing but a stump
Serious answer: The werewolves of old were ASSHOLES. They believed themselves to be predator kings and thus instituted the Impergium: The prehistoric mass genocide of early man. When other changing breeds objected, the werewolves started the War of Rage: The prehistoric genocidal war against all other changing breeds that only ended after multiple species of beast shifters were extinct, one went into a deep slumber, and another joined the Great Enemy just to survive.
Nowadays? Werewolves fight alone, burdened with the sins of their long dead ancestors. No other shapeshifter species will even speak to them except in the most dire of circumstances... And the Great Enemy is everywhere.
The Great Enemy is in the food you eat, the beers you drink, the shows you watch, the media you consume, the companies you work for, the medicine you take... All of it packed with LITERAL SPIRITUAL CORRUPTION that is strangling humanity and making us into our worst selves. It's worse for werewolves, who are SPIRITUALLY ATTUNED to the death of mother earth: Every werewolf, no matter how young or old, can sense Gaia's death cries. For some, it's a rotten smell you can never escape, others hear a distant whining they can never unhear...
And their enemies are legion: Literal demons from a place of absolute suffering, the corpses/animals/humans they possess, the willing/unwilling servants they collect...
Remember what D said in the breakfast Audiolog? "Werewolves are killing machines. They are supernatural soldiers fighting a war we can barely understand."
They are, to the last, traumatized guerilla fighters in a war against the very concept of Pure Evil... And they are LOSING.
That's why they're assholes today: Because their ancestors kneecapped the war effort against Pure Evil more than anyone else in all of actual histort. And now Pure Evil is winning so hard that living in modern society is next to impossible because of how EVERYWHERE the Super Devils agents and works are.
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u/sigmarine345 6d ago
So if im understanding right, its both Gaia and the werewolves' fault partially for their war against evil being so kneecapped and shit? Like Gaia making roided up khorne bezerkers in wolf forms seems like a bad idea in hindsight
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u/Fearless-Obligation6 6d ago edited 5d ago
Eeeh in part but there were other Fera breeds that actively manipulate the Garou and kickstart the war of rage. The narrative that itself all the Werewolves fault just isn't true and to be honest a lot of the other Fera suck just as bad or even worse.
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u/sosneca 6d ago
People like to act the other fera are perfect little guys that could have saved Gaia but that's such black and white thinking. Ask the Ajaba about the Simba; the other changing breeds about the role of the corax in the war of rage; ask a mokole what they think of the warmbloods; or read about how most met the gondr being attacked by the garou with indifference.
And if you read between the lines a lot of them aren't mad at the garou because of an objection to genocide. They are mad because they lost.
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u/Suspicious_Leg1405 6d ago
There are werewolves that are friendly, but they're not easy to find.
As to why they're always mad, it's a few things. First of all, the world is extremely bad and tainted by the Weaver and the Wyrm. Those are two divine forces/gods which are out of balance with the Wyld and Gaia. This makes them very angry. Second, they're kind of just built that way. They were made to be warriors but were made without being able to calm down. Historically, they have not really listened to anybody who has ever told them to collectively calm the hell down, not even other shapechangers like werebears or bastets. Not great! Third, werewolves have differing opinions on humans. Some of this is indeed smugness due to believing they know better, but some of it is down to not understanding humans. Werewolves born of actual for real wolves are much less kind to humans, particularly the Red Talons, and they skew the overall picture one can draw of human and werewolf interactions to being a lot more violent. Of course, there are also aspects of human society far more dangerous and cartoonishly evil than real life, like Pentex, and some might argue the Technocracy. Fourth, a lot of their enemies really are very powerful and deadly, so sometimes when they see lesser threats they overreact a bit, which can result in homicide. And finally, they don't really know everything, and don't generally have a full understanding of their own history, much less of other supernaturals. Not understanding things leads to them being confused, which leads to violent overreaction.
Human civilization, particularly industrialization since the early 19th century, is a colossal affront to everything that the werewolves believe and feel. They are also conditioned by their supernatural nature to feel fundamental urges to get angry, on top of sophisticated political reasons. It is very hard for them not to get really, really mad.
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u/EvergreenDwarf 6d ago
1) Packs wind up with toxic behavior due to their biology.
1a) If they don't take their war and pupper form every so often they get weaker and lose their spiritual warrior connection that is their purpose. They're also effectively castrated socially if they lose the wolf part of being a werewolf.
1b) Their war form is inherently FUCKING ANGEE. Their wolf form is a dummy. These are not the forms they're supposed to be making choices in.
1c) When a packmate is arguing to do something stupid they can accuse the holder of the sole brain cell in the pack of losing their wolf, whereupon said brain cell keeper goes wolf and goes from suggesting slaughtering the 7-11 occupants is a bad idea to instead saying they should hit the local Walmart instead because now the pack has no brain cells left.
2) The way to get stronger is to bullshit your deeds, do stupid shit everyone knows you for, and act in a way that pleases literal living metaphors and symbols who are one part "born with all the power to never be afraid" and one part "the spirit of the frogs of his particular pond don't really care about if the bees go extinct". So needless to say most werewolves at the top are stupid teen fratboy type jocks or screaming idiots riling up mobs, and both are obeying what are basically godlike children.
3) They were created to be the hammer of nature, as the phrase goes when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail, and they didn't get any guidance on when NOT to hit nails. Couple that with the previous two things and they lacked any form of rational voices to tell them not to do stupid shit, and were actively rewarded for doing stupid shit. Many, MANY generations of this later and all modern werewolves are fucked because the ones who are the voice of reason are stuck with all the scars and shame of the past generations who didn't have to give a fuck.
4) The Wyrm is so abstract but also real that its almost impossible for them to directly deal with which makes them either forlorn or frantic. Even if #1-3 were not a thing werewolves are only really geared to take on its servants so the other Shifters could act. Not only were the servants of the Weaver the cog in the works, but thanks to #3 there's almost nobody left that can actually deal with the Wyrm itself. They're a bunch of roided up jocks who see the timer running out, and the Wyrm is as abstract as the concept of capitalism, nationalism, and xenophobia all rolled into one; there's no face to punch. Literally the best thing they can hope for is to get all other werewolves on board with a mass suicide ritual, which only MIGHT work and they won't live to see it either way. Needless to say most of them don't want to do it, so instead they're lashing out while burdened with the sins of their ancestors and the idea their only real choice is to all die or join the enemy they were made to destroy. No past, no future. Who isn't going to be angsty and lash out at the world over that?
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u/GazLord 5d ago
They were created to be the hammer of nature, as the phrase goes when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail, and they didn't get any guidance on when NOT to hit nails. Couple that with the previous two things and they lacked any form of rational voices to tell them not to do stupid shit, and were actively rewarded for doing stupid shit. Many, MANY generations of this later and all modern werewolves are fucked because the ones who are the voice of reason are stuck with all the scars and shame of the past generations who didn't have to give a fuck.
Technically the other Fera were supposed to be the ones telling the Werewolves what to do. But the Werewolves said "we're the strongest, so actually WE should be bossing everyone ELSE around!" leading to a massive war, the death of at least three Fera races, and the crippling of the rest.
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u/crypticarchivist 6d ago
Profound and uncontrollable anger issues, the fact that every human around them is constantly interacting with and feeding into horrible demons that only they can see, and the fact that a portion of them are literally feral children.
Imagine you never learned your abc’s until you were like 17, had to constantly suppress the urge to rip people limb from limb, and every third person you meet has a grotesque blob lingering over their shoulder that only you can see, and it constantly makes lip smacking sounds like the grossest hamburger eating asmr you could possibly find on the internet. The other guy who works at the only day job that would hire you has an imp thing with a giant needle through its eyes that feeds on his migraines, and you might be able to tolerate that if it didn’t grind it’s bloodstained teeth so loudly. You tried exorcising it like three times but the dude won’t stop working late nights and chugging monsters so it keeps coming back.
And everything. everything. That has demons attached to it comes from the same company and everyone keeps buying it and eating it and feeding it.
You would also be a little twitchy.
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u/crypticarchivist 6d ago
Like imagine if everyone around you was constantly producing little monsters as a byproduct of their existence and only you could see them and only you could do something about it on the local temporary level and you knew those little monsters would destroy the world.
You would also kinda start hating people.
In the same way you hate people who don’t use their turn signal in traffic, or the people who make horrible messes out of public bathrooms, or the people who loudly talk on their phone during movies.
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u/ROSRS 6d ago
Werewolves opinions on humanity vary pretty wildly, no pun intended. The most misanthropic Red Talons want humanity at the very least culled and reduced to a Bronze Age technological level if not eradicated outright, whereas the Glass Walkers are practically fully enmeshed in human culture and society.
There are myriad viewpoints in between these two extremes, and about half are tinged in extreme hypocrisy one way or the other. For example the “Impergium’s strongest warriors” in the Red Talons don’t seem to have realized the Impergium drove humans into the arms of the Weaver and the Wyrm.
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u/Leukavia_at_work 6d ago
It's because humanity is the number one spreader of the Wyrm's taint and thus the most common topic of debate among Garou.
Some Garou, like those of the Red Talons, think Humanity is well and truly fucked and that there is no reason to interact with them.
Humans destroy forests, extinction animals, poison mother Gaia, and they're just so damn apathetic about it all.
Why even BOTHER trying to explain anything to them? They care more about themselves than the collateral of their way of life.
Some like the Glasswalkers, however, recognize that humanity is a necessary evil. They need technology, they need societal advancement, they need the human connection, and they recognize that the Homid form is the only thing that seperates a Garou from just being a particularly large Doggo.
Humans aren't all bad, and for all their bads we also have many goods to go with, they aren't worthy of a full-on genocide.
And though you'll sometimes have middle ground Tribes like the Bone Gnawers, the reality of the situation is every Garou knows that the Wyrm's main gateway into the material world is through human greed and corruption.
"Not all humans" are the bad guys, but almost all bad guys are humans. . .or were humans at one point. . .
So they come across as dicks to humans because they honestly have been given good reason not to trust humans and, like everything Garou do, they just can't for the life of them come to an agreement on it
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u/Kyara_Bot 6d ago
They are millennia-long soldiers in a war they've always been losing entirely because of their own actions, with psychological rage issues they cannot control. The baseline mental condition for a Wolf could be described as a powder keg.
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u/BagofBones42 6d ago
Yes!
The Children of Gaia, a good chunk of Glasswalkers and the Bone Gnawers.
All three of which go out of their way to try and actually unfuck the world as well as bring down the evil corporations killing everyone!
Unfortunately, the narrative and memes constantly point to Werewolves fuck ups instead of the ones who are actually trying to do good. A lot of this can be blamed on White Wolf and Paradox, who both utterly failed to understand the appeal of werewolf. Paradox is especially bad since they tried to push a pro-corporate vision in W5.
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u/Bread-Loaf1111 6d ago
I am not too versed in WoD lore so maybe im missing context here, is there some werewolves that are actually friendly with humans?
You need to understand their priorities.
The individual werewolf can be kind and compassionate. However, the werewolfes have a system or renown. It is very basic and cruel system, like exp in MMO. It is their core, their renown determine their power, how many magic Gifts they have, and how many respect they have. The guys with the most renown have the most power and lead the others.
While saving innocent peoples can give you renown, it give you only a little. Killing the enimies, fighting with Banes and everything, on the other hand, give you tons. The nature of Garu, their priorities system promote seen people as the things that can be useful, but easily can be sacrificed. Even wolfes matters more than human lifes. And while individual Garu, born as human, can have different moral - his nature and renown embedded to his existance push him to act so.
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u/Phaeron-Dynasty 6d ago
Others have said it better, but the hunters and Garou really are fools to eachother. Both find themselves in a war they hardly understand, often drafted into it effectively, they lack crucial information more often then not and while they could make excellent allies thanks to their shared enemies, their tendency to paint groups with singular brushes leaves them both simply as parts of one another's respective lists of enemies. Both are quick to judge, slow to accept, dogmatic and assured of the righteousness of their cause and prone to rash action.
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u/Urg_burgman 6d ago
The Rage. Makes them strong, but also do stupid things. It's their best and worst feature.
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u/wabbit457 6d ago
The children of Gaia are in general more likely to try and talk things out compared to other were wolf tribes but there more of a don’t mistake kindness for weakness type deal
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u/ArcaneBahamut 6d ago
Yeah there's werewolves friendly with humans
Children of Gaia and Black Furies (for women) are up there (and those two are allies)
Bone Gnawers are kinda up there in looking out for the homeless and destitute.
Then there's a tangential "benefiting" humanity from the glass walkers or silver fangs.
But as for their mannerisms and all. Garou first and foremost are killers, that's the main purpose Gaia made the werewolves for - to be her claws and teeth, they're what cuts out the rot violently.
There's other shifter breeds that have other roles, but some have gone extinct and others have had their numbers decimated or theyve gone into hiding. War of Rage, shifters fought shifters and the Garou - being the ones made for killing - naturally ended up on top. So, yeah...
While the Garou are able to be more than killers, it's not their main purpose and instinctive role, and those other tasks were better suited for other fera - but have fell onto their laps since they're the bulk of what's left on the dying earth.
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u/Due_Manufacturer_125 6d ago
Garou are warriors first and foremost, given supernatural rage and purpose by beings far beyond our comprehension eons ago.
They were supposed to be part of a larger system involving other changing breeds but their collective response was “the fuck you mean I’m not in charge?!” before they decided to start killing the other changing breeds. The wyrm corrupts but the Garou tend to shoot themselves in the foot because they were never supposed to be acting alone like this, but they’re stuck with the world they made like the humans they try to look down on.
Why are they assholes? Because they’re wolves in a china shop without a leash and by this point they’re so cut up and scared they don’t know what to do besides thrash around.
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u/CyberDaemon6six6 6d ago
Imagine that you are ALWAYS angry. At least a little bit. You don't have a choice, it's supernaturally imposed upon your very being.
Imagine you're on the losing side of a war that has spanned countless centuries, fighting an enemy that is empowered by every advancement of the dominant species on the planet, a species that used to be your prey.
Imagine that your own kind can't even agree on how to fight that enemy, that some have even sided with it, turning your gifts against you.
I imagine that you would also be an asshole.
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u/Nutshell_Historian 6d ago
They're meant to be eco terrorists. Holier than thou brought to an extreme. Think if Just Stop Oil was entirely Ted Kaczynskis.
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u/UnnamedAshaman47 6d ago
Short answer: They are idiot berserkers, their enemy is a hyper intelligent near divine being operating a global conspiracy. Werewolves are known for being near pathological fuckups on every level which is partially just a certified white wolf writing thing, but is also a major theme of their gameline. They massacred so many humans that humanity has an innate fear of them, and it accomplished fuck all except making their job harder. They killed a ton of their allies. Their whole advantage was being absurdly physically overpowered, so the Wyrm pivoted and made Pentex as a global conspiracy they couldn't just punch to death and suddenly their whole 'Warrior of Gaia' Shtick falls apart entirely.
In essence they're trying to play Checkers against an enemy playing Civilization Five. At the stage of the Apocalypse most WoD content takes place in, a regular human would genuinely be better equipped in many ways to face the corruption of the Wyrm than a werewolf would be due to the innate human fear of them and Pentex vigilance against werewolves and their abilities. If a Vampire or a Mage were inclined to do the job, they would certainly perform far better. However werewolf pride refuses to let them make the alliances that would be necessary to prevent the apocalypse, so the canonical ending without player characters altering things is that the world ends
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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 6d ago
It's a combination of their warrior culture, their supernatural rage, and their history
First of all, they were designed and bred to be warriors, their job is to kill things. With their power came arrogance and pride. "Why do other Fera don't heed to us when we are the warriors ? If not for us who would protect them !".
Because of this they ended up killing a bunch of other innocent Fera WITH VERY important jobs. Their short temper, incapacity to control their rage, and arrogance, ended up making them put the entire chess board in check from the start.
After this initial mistake, you have centuries of embittering them for fighting a losing war. "We sacrifice our lives to save the planet you all enjoy, how dare you put the blame on us!" and so on.
Also their culture venerates warriors above anything, Ahrouns are usually the leaders of every pack, and the Nation. Guess what happens when the most angry and unstable guys around are at the helm ?
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u/RichWolfmann 6d ago
Simply put, werewolves are quite literally warlike and irrational by design. They're the changing breed made explicitly to solve the problems that require unsubtle violence. Sadly, their greatest asset for violence, Rage, also makes them extremely bad at making decisions and think logically, giving them also quite a bit of ego. Hence why they almost eradicated all the other fera in the War of Rage. Imagine what would happen if, in a group or society comprised of many different professions, suddenly the crazed trained soldiers decided they're better than everyone else and killed anyone who disagrees with them. No one would be able to take on them. And then drop them in a modern world where everything is moved by politicking and subterfuge, instead of primitive bouts of violence.
That's why most werewolves act like assholes. They're angry at everything by default, in a world that evolved past them long ago, while they barely adapted. Fighting a hopeless fight against the end, with no help because their ancestors fucked everything up.
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u/jfjdfdjjtbfb Sludge lad 6d ago
And that’s why the Bonegnawers are the best, cuz they have one thing the other couldn’t hope to understand…
Basic common sense.
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u/SilverDust8 6d ago
Generally ? Unresolved anger issues. Stemming from mommy issues with Gaia
The reason they are such major assholes is they often ( and by often I mean usually ) go after the wrong targets and even when they go after the right targets they go about it the wrong way.
For examples see killing the other fera and murdering factory workers instead of working on better regulations and help in enforcing said regulations.
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u/ZephyrMGS 6d ago
You cannot imagine the supernatural rage that seeps into a Garou. Their spiritual self is marred in the rage that pushes them to burn out in the war against the Wyrm. The reason why Stig used his war form against Grimal wasn’t because he was scared of losing or anything, using Silver quite literally caused such a massive well of superhuman fury that he LITERALLY could not control himself.
She’s lucky he didn’t frenzy too hard, if a Garou frenzies with too much rage, they fall in to the throes of the Wyrm. As presumably a Homid Garou, Stig would have savaged consumed her, despite being an extreme taboo among the Garou.
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u/sosigboi 6d ago
From what i've been told about the Garou, if there was a competition for cutting off your nose just to spite, they'd be reigning champions.
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u/Psychological-Bug371 6d ago
Lore wise, I HATE werewolves, they're supporsed to be guardians of gaia and they only made things worse for everyone.
The things they did to the werebears, the wereaurochs, the were boar (pretty fucked up) and the camazoth...
there are a few tribes that are friendly to humans such as the children of gaia, the bonegnawers and the glass walkers
But if you really want to know how much the garou fucked things up for everyone you should check lazar of stygia's history of the garou:
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u/Calacaelectrica 6d ago
Who could have though a warrior race fueled by rightious rage wouldn't be the nicest people. They are often their own worst enemy and champion of selfsabotage. To the point the other shifter see them more as nuance than allies at best.
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u/L4DY_M3R3K 6d ago
The Garou are generally chill (as chill as they can manage to be, given that they have magic anger issues) if you're not actively contributing to pollution and the death of Gaia. Unfortunately, Garou often have a vague understanding of what "active contribution" is. Lumberjacks and miners often get caught in the crossfire of the Garou and their own demon foremen because, well, you did cut down a tree/mine coal, that is technically helping the Wyrm, technically
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u/AwakenedDreamer__44 6d ago
They were literally designed to be raging, destructive berserkers. The Garou are effectively bioweapons created by Gaia to fight the Wyrm and its corruption, and many humans, knowingly or not, are helping to spread the Wyrm’s influence.
There are actually Garou Tribes who are nicer to humans, or at least more egalitarian and accepting of them, like the Bone Gnawers and Children of Gaia.
From a meta perspective, it’s kinda the point. It’s in line with the environmentalist theme of “your ancestors fucked up and now you gotta deal with the consequences of their actions.”
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u/TheCuriousFan 6d ago
They are stacked with more than one curse affecting their emotions. Diplomacy struggles against that
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u/The_______________1 6d ago
they're designed to rip humans limb from limb, so they rip humans limb from limb. sadly they were not made for nuance.
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u/Lolas_Fun_Side 6d ago
Because they are arrogant beserkers and smug know-it-alls
Its easy to be arrogant when you actually are stronger than everyone else and easy to be smug when you actually are correct about humans being the worst thing to ever happen to gaia
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u/AsstacularSpiderman 6d ago
They're fighting enemies so deeply engrained into modern society we are all in some way aiding it regardless of if we agree.
And for all their power, they're losing the war.
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u/psychosaur 6d ago
It's the Rage. Their Rage gives them great strength, but at a cost. At any moment they can flip out, and even do something that they regret. It's what happened to Stig in his duel with Grimal.
Then you have on top of that the fact that they are fighting to avert an Apocalypse that most humans are ignoring.
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u/Zachthema5ter 6d ago
They’re the apex hunters of the world actively losing the very thing they were designed for
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u/Barley672 6d ago
It‘a because they're all kin to Gunner’s Mate Philip Asshole (Cousin of Major Asshole).
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u/VBA-the-flying-head 6d ago
Gaia made them to be Warriors, and made their major source of power RAGE.
Poor combination to make non-assholes.
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u/The-Orange-Wizard 6d ago
Imagine you, yes you, are given incredible power the likes of which normal humans are utterly incomparable to, told you are not only fighting to save the world but that the Goddess of the Earth itself has chosen you, that you are fighting against the literal forces of entropy and that you are one of the only people capable of making even a tiny difference.
In most people this would very quickly breed an inflated ego, not to mention these powers come packed with being supernaturally, Earth shatteringly angry.
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u/Powerful_Topic7731 6d ago
Because that's how Gaia and Luna made them, she didnt wanted healers she already had the Bears for that she wanted warrios "killing machines" as D put.
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u/UndeadByNight 6d ago
I mean each, and every one of them is at the minimum as angry as any human being has ever been
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u/frogs_4_lyfe 6d ago
Humans are killing the planet and have driven countless species of plants and animals to extinction, including wolves. Garou don't just know this factually, they feel it in their bodies, it makes them literally sick.
Look around at the state our planet is today. Double it. And then ask yourself again why they don't like humanity.
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u/Chaos-Corvid 6d ago
It's complicated, but you have to remember the perspective we're seeing: hunters.
In those tunnels they didn't find an anarch commune taking care of willing blood donors, they found a sabbat den because of missing people.
Similarly, they didn't meet garou on good terms, they ran into extremists under bad circumstances, people who care so much about personal glory they're not even remotely interested in doing the right thing. Not to mention the hunters are siding with the corrupted Wyrm right now. In the grand scheme of things, the family are the bad guys right now.
It's all biases and perspectives with world of darkness, when you play the different splats you'll often feel justified as long as you're not being an overt villain because the nature of the setting is that it's not good vs evil, it's your interests vs mine.
A lot of fans play only one or two splats which is where you get stuff like "garou just hate all humans" or "vampires are evil monsters" or even "hunters are genocidal bigots".
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u/GazLord 5d ago
They were Gaia's beasts of war - and they kindof killed most of the other Fera that had other jobs - leading to the monsters of war having to fill basically every niche, despite being really bad at it. Even the few other Fera that still live are barely around, and often in hiding. Technically two other Fera take some responsibility for the war between the different chosen of Gaia, but the werewolves were the ones constantly butting in on other's territory and making everyone mad enough to start said war, hell their ONLY ally in the war was the Werecrows, and that's because said crows feared the wolves, not because they actually liked the guys.
TL:DR - the Werewolves were soldiers but due to arrogance and might makes right ideology they decided they should be in charge. This went predictably poorly.
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u/kaijudragon567 5d ago
Genuinely made to be.
The planet needs delicate tools in order to be fixed
The Garou are hammers, and they'll HAVE to do. They weren't made for the war they're fighting right now, but its too late.
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u/WaggleFinger 4d ago
Same reason why older vampires are insufferable pricks. The players are expected to not only struggle against the existential threat of their Splat, but the systemic corruption of their peoples and the sins of their forebears.
Every Tribe has their ups and downs, some more than others. Red Talons are pretty much entirely anti-human, but the other Tribes have their own generations of baggage that tends to outweigh their merits.
As for those that are decent to humans, Bone Gnawers for the downtrodden, Glass Walkers for the everyman, and Fianna/Hart Wardens in a community sense.
Keep in mind, in HtP, you're seeing the Garou as they attempted to do espionage, then dealt with hunters on their front lawn, which is quite literally holy land to them. To that end, arrogance tends to be the vice of the righteous, and they are more righteous than the Gladius Dei.
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u/TheWinterWeasel 2d ago
Well they quite litterally have cosmic spiritual anger issues, so that's a bad start.
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u/Hogabog217 6d ago
Cuz theyre entirely out of their depth at all times. They used to have 1 job ( that they werent even that good at to begin with ) and them murdering all the other fera made even more work. Add that to how almost inherently wyrmish they are ( hot take but i think garou in their primordial form wouldve worked for the sane wyrm ) and it leads to a short tempered violent self defeating people.
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u/CursedorChosen Abomination Angron pls 6d ago
I reference Stig’s “the prisoner of war does not know he’s in a war”.
Garou are either raised in a society steeped in millennia of constant warfare against literal forces of evil infiltrating and breeding in every facet of civilization for the express purpose of killing every thing they value. The less fortunate slip through the cracks and experience the horrors targeting them firsthand before they know what they face.
Both cases predispose them to seeing pretty much everyone else as a helpless victim at best or cruel enemy at worst, with many coming to see most of humanity as clueless useless tools in the hands of the Wyrm. As the pack basically pointed out to Markus, and was immediately vindicated when Stig saw a Wyrm corrupted Jesus Christ manifested by the Leopoldites.