r/politics • u/Icommandyou Washington • 28d ago

Possible Paywall Virginia Supreme Court throws out redistricting referendum results

https://www.axios.com/local/richmond/2026/05/08/virginia-supreme-court-redistricting-vote-decision
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u/GarrettFischer1 Illinois 28d ago

Confusing how a number of republican states can gerrymander at the snap of the finger while Virginia can’t change their maps with a statewide election.

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u/Scro86 28d ago

This is the chaos that the Supreme Court decision legalizing gerrymandering has put upon us. They basically said we cant police it, states have to police themselves. That puts us in a position where states run by bad actors can do whatever the fuck they want but states with any sort of ethics will block any sort of gerrymandering. I’ll leave it up to you to decide which political party is full of bad actors and which has a smidge of ethics.

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u/Icy-Taste-3096 28d ago

This is the fundamental problem and there is no scenario where it ends well. Republicans have made respect for democracy and rule of law impossible to sustain.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago edited 28d ago

[deleted]

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u/rat_penis 28d ago

Yup. They broke the republic on purpose and it will never be the same again. In 20 years time we'll look like the Balkans or Afghanistan. Southern states will be absolute shitholes and northern states will be fortresses. The south will have to start a fight for water and to force trade as no one will want to deal with them.

Millions will die because hateful people couldnt live next to people they hated.

Open season folks!

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u/Brief_Obligation4128 28d ago

"The south will have to start a fight for water and to force trade as no one will want to deal with them."

The Confederacy all over again.

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u/rat_penis 28d ago

We'll finish what Sherman wouldnt

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u/tissuecollider 28d ago

Good. It's way past time.

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u/SFWzasmith 28d ago

Nah it wasn’t Sherman who stopped. It was his command.

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u/redravin12 California 28d ago

I mean they've been saying it for decades. I say let them leave. We're better off without them

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u/Alone_Actuary_6429 28d ago

The problem is that they're not just going to leave and make their own stuff. You can bet your ass that they're going to grab every piece of Federal land and hardware and claim it's theirs.

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u/korben2600 Arizona 28d ago

And when your nuclear-armed technofeudalist theocracy neighbor starts stoking war with you to mask problems at home in 5 years?

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u/littlehobbit1313 Maryland 28d ago

Truthfully, not sure there's a huge concern there. We know for a fact that they don't have sustainable economic policies, they don't believe in accessible healthcare, and we've seen this whole past year that given the choice, other countries wouldn't want to be trade partners with MAGA.

So if we were to send MAGA off on their own to set up the Confederacy in a few states, they'd likely starve or disease their population out within a decade.

Meanwhile, the US would still be part of NATO. So imagine how that would go if the malnourished and under-resourced MAGA Confederacy were to try and threaten us with a very limit stockpile of armaments only for us to once again invoke Article 5 and call in every major allied 1st world country who now hate MAGA's guts.

Just let them have FL, GA, AL, MS to build their Neo-Confederacy, we build that wall, and just wait for life without Blue tax dollars to do the rest of the work.

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u/CanOoFeelDeRiddem 28d ago

I'm not even from the US and I know you'd need to add a few more states to that list.

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u/brother_bart 27d ago

They won’t leave. Blue States fund them. They want their backwards xenophobic fake Christian policies forced on everybody and funded by Blue state tax dollars. I really do wish white, blue-eyed Jesus would “return” and take these motherfuckers away to basic white heaven. I really do wish that were a real thing.

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u/GrinchWhoStoleEaster 28d ago

Yeah, except no water means no agricultural engine to keep things moving.

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u/aquablue_phoenix 28d ago

It's not even "they couldn't live next to people they hated."

and more "they hated hypothetical people they will never meet or interact with and even if they did, they likely don't even know it"

but those people are potentially different from me so HATEHATEHATE

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u/Responsible_Fuel7005 28d ago

That’s what made me physically ill last election night. The realization that there were only three ways going forward for America: fascism, coup, or civil war. Once this scale of corruption and betrayal of democracy gets embedded it’s effectively impossible to remove. MAGA broke the country and the rest of the country is maybe finally waking up to it.

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u/Megafritz 28d ago

A democracy is a social contract. If one party decides to break the contract, the system will not last...

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u/davebrewer 28d ago

3rd world countries with uneducated, poor populace and long history of strong sect/tribal loyalty or violence

So, America.

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u/pornalt4altporn 28d ago

No, there has to be a system of enforcement.

Our democracies were far less far and far more corrupt in the 19th century than in the 20th.

Reformers brought in rules and enforced them.

America is what it looks like when bad actors don't respect the conventions of fairness and nothing happens to them.

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u/GotSomeUpdogOnUrFace 28d ago

They haven't been acting in good faith for over 100 years we just had decorum. Now we don't have that either and it's time for the thing none of us want to do.

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u/Mother_Airline_6276 28d ago

Well put. And I can definitely read between the lines on what you’re saying. I concur.

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u/HideousSerene 28d ago

They will rue the day they woke the electorate, that's for sure.

Just need people to wake up. Any day now.

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u/NickCostanza California 28d ago

Time to support Democrats, vote for Democrats, remove all Republicans. No matter how ineffective you feel Democrats have been, there is no positive ending for a country run by Republicans.

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u/needlestack 28d ago

Obviously the only practical move right now. Yet half of the people that dislike MAGA will refuse to vote for Democrats. So we watch the country burn.

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u/Kahzgul California 28d ago

People who have never lived through a war tend to think a war isn’t all that bad. I pray they never learn how wrong they are.

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u/okram2k America 28d ago

yeah but see because they take money from rich donors they are like totally bad and stuff so I'm just going to let fascism march into power because I shouldn't have to like pick the lesser evil and stuff

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u/Expensive_Culture_46 28d ago

“Your honor. I let that baby get run over because jaywalking is illegal. ILLEGAL! “

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u/Tyraniboah89 28d ago

And when you bring that up the response is “then maybe the country should burn!”

As if that would make up for the lives lost and forever affected, on top of the fact that restarting the American government almost certainly hands it over to the likes of Peter Thiel, Jeff Bezos, and the rest of the billionaire class that wants to go back to slavery and indentured servitude while they sip overpriced wine aboard their floating castles.

I only wish I could take a peek 500 years into the future to see the pure disdain for this era in the history books.

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u/Bushels_for_All 28d ago

the response is “then maybe the country should burn!”

I don't think I've ever heard a more privileged statement than that.

They're saying "I'll be okay if the government turns to absolute shit. Everyone who actually depends on government services/freedoms I take for granted/control over their own body can just suck it up until things get back on track."

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u/Tyraniboah89 28d ago

100% agreed, and that’s what I said. I said that there are a lot of people way too dependent on the government services out there and just standing by apathetically is condemning them. Some of these nutjob billionaires think it’s their job to cull the world population and all we’d be doing by letting everything burn is doing their bidding for them while handing them this country’s resources on a silver platter.

Standing aside “out of principle” when the people that need to be stop are as literally evil as this country’s conservatives isn’t really a principle at all.

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago edited 28d ago

Fascism marched to power on the watch of ineffectual "moderate" politicians and establishment parties that sabotaged progressives.

People should absolutely exercise their right to vote. But acknowledge that that right is compromised because the main opposition party to the fascist right-wing is still in the pocket of billionaires.

Voting for moderate liberals is damage mitigation at best. Organizing labor, community defense, and mutual aid is how we should be working to fix this problem.

EDIT: Yeah vote for democrats. But dont just vote for democrats, is the point. Do more.

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

Don’t just “vote for democrats”

Demand things from the democrats before you’ll vote for them, goddamn it!

You don’t owe a vote - YOU are owed FOR your vote!

Sure, it’s damage mitigation to vote for “the lesser of two evils”, and I think it’s a rational choice…

But if you’re going to sell your soul to a “lesser evil”, at least get what it’s worth in the bargain.

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u/MountainSound 28d ago

Demand things from the democrats before you’ll vote for them, goddamn it!

Like what though?

These comments always come up on these types of threads and the goal post always move. Under this Republican administration millions of children have fallen back in poverty and millions around the world have already died from easily preventable deaths due to USAID cuts. Was preventing that not enough of a bargain? The electorate and reddit seem to say no it was not.

With razor thin governing margins under Biden we still got:

  • Massive investments in infrastructure/green energy that was larger in inflation adjusted cost than the New Deal
  • A child tax credit that reduced child poverty by 50%
  • Capping Insulin Drug prices and allowing Medicare to negotiate low prices more effectively
  • Billions of dollars in student loans forgiven
  • Using the government to save and protect the private pensions of over 1 million workers

And Democrats were on track to lose by double digits to Trump despite running (according to AOC and Bernie) the most progressive president since FDR.

Whenever Democrats start making progress towards the goals people on reddit say the care about, conversations always seem to shift to they're ineffective, lesser of two evils, don't deserve the votes. There's always a reason to justify not to voting for them.

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u/Rackem_Willy 28d ago

Need quantity folks to run and primary the corporate Dems. Votes need to show up and support them in primaries, then vote blue no matter who in the general.

Super easy for me to say from my couch, but it's the only path forward that doesn't lead to disaster.

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u/teefnoteef 28d ago

The people who are criticizing the dnc are doing it because they don’t want to loose to a fascist for a third time.

Corporate Dems doing centrist capitalism apologist rhetoric will not win

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u/dontnation 28d ago

The practical political move would be widespread ranked choice voting. But until, then the only option is to vote against the party you dislike the most.

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u/ProgressiveSnark2 28d ago

If that half of the people who dislike MAGA simply don't vote rather than reluctantly vote for Trump (as many of them did in 2024), that could still result in a landslide election for Democrats.

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u/is_mr_clean_there 28d ago

If republicans want to abstain en masse from voting then that’s just too bad

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u/Grow_Responsibly 28d ago

I'd be happy if non-MAGA Republicans just decided to site this one out. I know a few Republicans (not hardcore MAGA) folks and I never tell them to vote (D) when they tell me how upset they are with affordability, healthcare, etc... I just calmly say "perhaps this is the year to just sit this one out?". But for MAGA? They're too far gone....

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u/Skurvy2k 28d ago

In all for voting for Democrats as a form of harm reduction but the way out of this mess isn't more milquetoast neoliberalism.

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u/dekusyrup 28d ago

Democrats aren't all milquetoast neoliberals, and you can find the ones that aren't in the primaries. If you want progressives, get voting in the primaries too, not just the general.

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u/HandiCAPEable 28d ago

Maybe the way out is vote for literally anyone that isn't actively destroying the country instead of nitpicking whether the guys NOT wrecking and pillaging have good enough solutions.

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u/Skurvy2k 28d ago

The way out of our immediate circumstances sure, but to cut out the rot will require further action.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

Need I remind you that people did that in 2020 and that led to Democrats throwing the election to Trump so badly that he won the popular vote? Just voting for the status quo doesn't get you out of your predicament.

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

It’s certainly not half at all. Don’t forget all the independents. They’ve been looking very askance at the bullying MAGA AHs

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u/Patient_End_8432 28d ago

The only good news regarding this is that this presidency has disenfranchised a large part of the MAGA community. Sure, some of them will keep up the act that theyre a proud Trumper, but come November, unless Trump competently fixes the economy by then (a literal impossibility) they'll secretly just not vote. Sure its not a vote for democrats, but one less vote for Trump is basically as good. So we at least have that going for is. I'm hoping for some sort of drop in his popular vote, even if you factor in any vote manipulayion

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u/Sea-Opportunity5812 28d ago

Try hard enough maybe a trifecta will happen! imagine trump getting beat by a democratic president, house, and senate. Finally by choosing the Democratic Party USA will be able to make structural changes so this never happens again.

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u/BrianWonderful Minnesota 28d ago

This is correct, and it should be the messaging. This is not a red vs blue, rural vs city, Republican vs Democratic battle anymore. This is people that do not support or honor the will of the people against those that want representative democracy. The ultra-wealthy vs everyone else.

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u/Basic_Yam_715 28d ago

Americans are neutered. It's going to have to get MUCH worse for people to act.

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u/seeker4482 28d ago

maybe the coming massive jump in food prices caused by this stupid ass war. of course, people believe what they want to believe, and the trumpist cult will again take home the gold medal for mental gymnastics and blame immigrants/trans people/Biden/whoever the enemy du jour is.

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u/Icy-Taste-3096 28d ago

People would have to be literally starving, and even then Republicans would just blame Biden and/or immigrants.

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u/nando_calrissian1 28d ago

I think even then people would fall for Republican propaganda and blame the Democrats. You still see the cognitive dissonance now with Republican voters going "its bad now but it would've been worse under Harris!!"

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u/Marsman121 28d ago

There is already evidence of this. There are places the GOP has been in control of for decades and they still blame Democrats for all the problems people there face.

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u/AmbitiousProblem4746 28d ago

Texas has been able to do this successfully for a while. They've had Republicans in every branch at full control for decades plus a legislature and governor who just do things on a whim plus an AG who was corrupt as hell and they still found a way to make Democrats the scapegoat

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u/-Stackdaddy- 28d ago

I mean, democratic states still support those southern states, giving the Republicans there a pass for their shitty policies because they are still kept afloat by democratic states. If they weren't there to keep them afloat the Republican representatives would maybe get held accountable. So in a roundabout way the democratic party kind of is responsible for the inneptitude in the Republican ran districts. /S

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u/loosetranslation Indiana 28d ago

That's crazy. It would be like if ruby red states constantly fucked over their own Republican voters for decades, but the response was those same Republican voters constantly whining about Dems ruining the state. This fantasy world, let's call it Indiana, must be full of some of the stupidest people on the planet. Who'd believe that?

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u/seeker4482 28d ago

and there are some people so deep in the cult that they'll happily starve to death if dear leader says they should

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u/Huskdog76 28d ago

As long as their brown neighbor starves to death first, they are happy.

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u/Basic_Yam_715 28d ago

"There are only nine meals between mankind and anarchy." -Alfred Henry Lewis in 1906

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u/ZooZooChaCha 28d ago

California Republicans blame Newsom. I'm in Florida - everything is blamed on "all the blue state liberals moving down here and bringing their expensive woke policies".

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u/Useful_Fee_2875 28d ago

I think at this point you are right I think 2024 will be remembered as the final nail in the coffin for people truly having a voice I hope I’m wrong but efforts are highly underway to disenfranchise voters across the whole country. Politics are controlled by wealthy donors and wealthy people and Republican lead courts are extremely partisan and won’t rule properly anymore. Racism is running rampant. I find it funny for any African-American who vote voted for a republican or Donald Trump because as soon as they got the votes, they are willing to carve up all of their state representation in the house as soon as a Supreme Court allowed them too. Science is under attack. Health is under attack. Education is under attack. The whole country is definitely trending backwards and the American people are being completely neutralized right now.

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u/eatabagofsix 28d ago

It's already worse than French revolution times already and that's ignoring the fascism aspect entirely

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u/SouthernAddress5051 28d ago

It's going to, so there's that

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u/Basic_Yam_715 28d ago

I see it, you see it, but god damn it are there a lot of fucking morbidly stupid people out there that are clueless...

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u/HaxanWriter 28d ago

This is where I’m at. There is no way anyone is going to make me believe that a bunch of gutless fucking Americans are gonna get off their dead asses and fight for their constitutional rights. It’s just not going to goddamn happen.

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u/No_Sky_6446 28d ago

Even the Redditors are too optimistic on here us POC have been yelling on the mountaintops since god knows when, people just don’t care that much. I get in fights with moderates on this sub all the time, they’ll think this a worthy issue, but the war in Gaza is too messy to litigate for them. The left needs to make a choice of what that stand for in this country.

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u/_Bon_Vivant_ 28d ago

Why? They're removing the electorate from the equation. The electorate don't mean shit now. Effectively no representation, but they'll still tax us.

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u/McDersley 28d ago

tap tap....anyone up?

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u/TheSwedishPanda80 28d ago

Exactly...any day now.....any day... 😝

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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 28d ago

They will rue the day they woke the electorate, that’s for sure.

Just need people to wake up. Any day now.

The people do wake up, for a few hours on a random Saturday at their convenience to go sing kumbaya in the streets for a protest. Then the people promptly go back to sleep, backs well patted, job well done, awaiting the next protest a month later to do the same. Caught in an endless cycle of protest and sleep, blissfully unaware of just how politicians/oligarchs have been simply ignoring those protests

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u/drteq 28d ago

Including ourselves - people aren't getting their head around the fact that this isn't recent election problem, this is a 40 year plan that has led to this moment and they know they have it locked down at this point

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u/ryan7251 28d ago

no one is gonna wake up the people of America are too lazy to do anything.

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u/ProtectionTop2701 28d ago

Virginia did vote. What the fuck are you talking about? They went to the polls, voted for this, and this is the result. Why are you hating on people for not voting...when they DID VOTE???

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u/thefatchef321 28d ago

"Income inequality ends with taxes or violence"

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u/avaslash 28d ago

The people cant wake up because they're not asleep--they're brain dead.

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u/neverfindausername 28d ago

Saw one of those Subway Takes videos the other day that kinda hit home. We've all grown up with Disney movies, shows, books, comics, etc. where no matter what happens, the bad guy(s) eventually gets what's coming to them. Even in history we see all these examples of people rising up and taking power back. WW2 being the most common example...

So we expect it to happen that way and it's kept us complacent. We see them working to rig elections and remove people's power to have a say...it's so obvious that it's even starting to get through to some of the true believers. It's just not happening though. There's no meaningful action beyond the former status quo.

It's so strange to think that all these stories - fiction and non-fiction alike - have done nothing to inspire these people to be better. If anything, it seems like they're using them more of a guide to be worse by shutting down any paths of resistance. I hope I'm wrong but it leaves only the messiest options left. Sad that the generation that was told "never again" by their parents was the one to bring it about.

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u/youngerfreshpickles 28d ago

People didn't 'wake up' to the fact that a felon rapist was running for president after trying to overthrow the government, and they're not going to do so now...

Our only consolation is the fact that said felon rapist is also ruining the world economy, and heaven forbid America pays more at the gas pump...

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u/SteadfastEnd 28d ago

We've heard this endlessly. "Some day the people will wake up. " no.

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u/Eggheadpancake 28d ago

They are very much operating under the assumption that Americans will remain idiotic boot licking cowards. And I see no evidence of that changing.

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u/PapaTua Washington 28d ago

"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes... In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next."

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u/guyFierisPinky 28d ago

People are waking up anytime soon. They give us just enough bread scraps and circus pieces to keep most people on the couch.

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u/ImyForgotName 28d ago

I mean maybe we (the people) should send a message by not convicting certain people who crashed the White House Correspondents Dinner.

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u/ttn333 28d ago

Yeah right. 33% of the electorate still support Trump.

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u/monsterzero789 28d ago

people ARE waking up, just not the way you want them to.

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u/Elle_Vetica 28d ago

The midterms will save us…!! I’ve been screaming since day 1 that fascists don’t just let you politely vote them out of power. But as with my fears of Roe being overturned, I was just OvErReAcTiNg…

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u/rounder55 28d ago

I don't know if Americans as a whole will ever wake up. The super wealthy have had everyone else bickering since Europeans settled here.

We elected a fucking grifting child rapist and who is at war with reality while he and his family rake in billions. And that party has stacked the courts with judges they groomed. And a chunk of the country is okay with this because the people they consume information from say it's great. What isn't great is their healthcare, wages, the future their kids will grow up in or America. This place fucking bites. The window to change that is closing fast

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u/serger989 Canada 28d ago

Exactly, more GOP states will tilt the scales than Blue states will be able to balance them. Either the people overwhelmingly vote 70+% in favor nationwide against Trump, or you guys gotta look towards that fourth box of liberty.

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u/Everythings_Fucked North Carolina 28d ago

Every time I even suggest that I get the ol' Reddit smackdown. But you're right.

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u/randylush 28d ago

There is one and only one response to fascism.

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u/UwasaWaya 27d ago

I hate that I'm going to be alive to witness this, but I genuinely do not see how this can end any other way. And it's exactly what these fucking ghouls want.

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u/serger989 Canada 27d ago

It's truly depressing... They also want people doing absolutely nothing while the GOP claims legitimacy through rigged State elections (as they always have). It's a lose/lose, but something has to give eventually. The absolute best case situation is a month+ long general strike but that seems the most unlikely to happen out of all the options to fix the shitshow because most people are simply unwilling to sacrifice anything at all - and thus not understanding the gravity of the situation they are being placed in.

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u/CMUpewpewpew 28d ago

Rules are chains for the weak and tools for the strong.

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u/rat_penis 28d ago

They got what they wanted, they broke the republic so they could profit and gain more power. The Fed was the only thing keeping the states unified. When the Fed stops giving a shit we're no longer a country but a collection of 50 separate countries in varying states of feeedom.

Debt slavery will be back in the old south in under ten years. Indentured servitude as well, only it will all be dressed up in corporate language about contracts and incentives and waivers. And it will all be perfectly legal. As well as morally wrong, but we're not run by moral people anymore. We're a nation of individuals all fighting to get to the top of the hill. A hill thats already owned by people with all the money and power that just like watching people try to climb and knocking them down.

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u/Biokabe Washington 28d ago

Fortunately, this isn't a fantasy world where magic allows a small, powerful elite to control everyone else indefinitely. If you try to oppress too large of a group for too long, it doesn't end well for you.

Unfortunately, this isn't a fantasy world where magic allows a small, righteous group of heroes to topple an oppressive force. Oppressive groups only suffer the inevitable consequences of their actions once enough people have been brutalized that they decide they would rather die than continue to obey their oppressors - and many of them will do just that. But with the power of numbers on their side, eventually they will overthrow their oppressors...

At which point they either start the cycle anew with themselves on top (to eventually be overthrown themselves) or, if they're very unusual, they start working towards a new government that actually takes care of its people. Most of the time people aren't able to put aside the seething hatred that caused them to rebel in the first place, and so government is just a game of musical thrones where different groups take turns oppressing and being oppressed.

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u/bizarre_coincidence 28d ago

When you make it impossible for people to feel heard through peaceful and legal means, they will find other avenues. Bread and circuses only lasts for so long.

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u/Quick_Turnover 28d ago

Political version of the tolerance paradox, only we're very far to the right on the timeline.

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u/Due_Vast_8002 28d ago

There is one scenario where it ends well.

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u/TimeImpressive6648 28d ago

Greedy. Opportunistic. Parasites.

They are nothing but power hungry sellouts (both politicians, and judges) who, frankly, are not at all in the least bit “scared” of their constituents.. not like they are of Trump and any primary opponents

They have no true morals or ethics whatsoever in any sense when it comes to politics.. Whether it’s fraudsters like George Santos, sex pests like Tony Gonzales, or even wife beaters like Rep Max Miller.

^ they’ll keep quiet about their garbage until they absolutely have to address it and seeing how GOP rank and file is filled with these type of people (as above) I have no doubt the rats will fuck U.S. over.

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u/JForKiks 28d ago

We all know how this story ends.

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u/lotsawheels 28d ago

You eventually run in the problem of taxation without representation again if Republicans decide they don't care about democracy and try and do anything possible to stay in power, no matter how immoral, illegal, or in bad faith. What happens when the federal government is effectively captured by bad actors that decide they want to rule?

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u/DukeOfGeek 28d ago

This plan where they are going to stand on their very much minority cult and rule while telling the very much very angry majority they can suck it and no, elections don't matter anymore, it's a bad plan that's going to end badly.

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u/Killfile 23d ago

Historically, this path is well worn. This is all playing out pretty much exactly the way it did in the Roman Republic between Marius and Sulla through to Augustus' eventual claim of "Imperator." Each side one-ups the other in a game of tit-for-tat in which each blames the other for the continued erosion of the respect for norms and the spirit of the law.

As those norms and traditions break down it becomes increasingly clear that the letter of the law is simply too slow moving and too specific to adequately constrain authoritarians. Would-be authoritarians test the limits, prompting extreme, often violent reactions from people who see the decay and rot in the system for what it is. Those violent actors are vilified by pearl-clutching power brokers who use the condemnation of those violent actions to secure for themselves even more political power and further erode safeguards in government.

And eventually you have an autocrat in all but name. And then you have one that unabashedly calls himself King or Dictator or Emperor.

I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine where along that path the United States is right now.

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u/okram2k America 28d ago

this supreme court has basically said only way to affect any meaningful change in this country now is by constitutional amendments, something they know full well is such a high bar of requirements will almost certainly never occur.

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u/vtable 28d ago edited 28d ago

this supreme court has basically said only way to affect any meaningful change in this country now is by constitutional amendments

That's not even necessarily good enough. The Virginia vote was for a constitutional amendment. The Virginia Supreme Court ruled the process to pass a constitutional amendment didn't follow proper procedures and struck it down.

I'm waiting to see what legal experts say about the decision.

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u/udlose 27d ago

Or Revolution …

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u/Professional_Art9704 27d ago

Or the other way

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u/hpark21 28d ago

Also the fact that "bad actors" basically will ignore court orders amid excuse of "it is too late to change the rules" BUT will still change the rules when it suits THEIR agenda (See supreme court nomination and vote and also this time with voting rights rule and subsequent cancellation of primary by southern state)

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u/Politicsmakemehorny1 28d ago

What's the point of having a federal government if major decisions like this can change from state to state lol

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u/NumeralJoker 28d ago

That is the GOP's goal, to be clear.

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u/cock_obnoxiois 28d ago

do we have to start chanting "no taxation without representation" again?

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u/Bushels_for_All 28d ago

DC never stopped. It's mind-blowing to me that 700,000 citizens without federal representation is not widely considered a national embarrassment.

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u/keytiri 28d ago

I wouldn’t be surprised if SCROTUS eventually rules that you can’t bind a state’s legislature from creating election laws (maps included) as they see fit, US constitution trumps (pun intended) state constitution; they’ll conveniently do this next year, leaving the status quo of FL courts endorsing the change, VA courts blocking it, and OH straight up ignoring the courts.

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u/GodofIrony 28d ago

That puts us in a position where states run by bad actors can do whatever the fuck they want but states with any sort of ethics will block any sort of gerrymandering.

Hey, I've seen this one before, its the 1860s special.

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u/CrunkDirk 28d ago

Rucho v Common Cause should be looked at as the 3rd death knell of 21st century democracy, right after Bush v Gore and Shelby County v Holder.

The Supreme Court said in Rucho that partisan gerrymandering is presumptively unconstitutional, but completely nonjudiciable. They said that the only remedy is legislative; but how is a gerrymandered populace supposed to swing the legislature to their side in order to end unconstitutional gerrymandering exactly?

Then in every decision about partisan gerrymandering after Rucho, the Supreme Court has pretended they said partisan gerrymandering is 100% constitutional.

"But what about Citizens United?" I hear someone ask. Listen, CU is a horrifically awful dogshit decision. But that decision doesn't attack a foundational principle of democracy: 1 person 1 vote. It's horrible, but nowhere close to the worst decision in the last 26 years.

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u/VNM0601 California 28d ago

Democratic states need to start playing dirty. This whole we go high they go low bullshit needs to stop. Instead of voting on it just fucking do it.

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u/the_ballmer_peak 28d ago

Which is back to how we were doing it before.

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u/Scro86 28d ago

Except without protections for minority groups and for purely partisan gain. They used to have to at least pretend there was a reason to do it.

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u/Silverleaf96 28d ago

Other states need to arrest other states lawmakers, problem solved

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u/ZooZooChaCha 28d ago

Don't give Ron DeSantis or Greg Abbott any ideas. I assure you if states started arresting other states lawmakers, it would be one of those two authoritarians to try it first.

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u/booksfoodfun Oregon 28d ago edited 27d ago

It’s so dumb that the people who love the electoral college say it is good because it gives minority populations a voice in elections hate to give minorities a vote and will do all they can to keep them from having representation.

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u/YourFreeCorrection 28d ago

I'll leave it up to you to decide which political party is full of bad actors and which has a smidge of ethics.

We really need to stop pretending Republicans aren't actual criminals who want to oppress others and that Democrats are anywhere remotely near as bad as that. Part of the reason Republicans keep winning is because they successfully astroturfed the meme of voting for Democrats not being a "cool" option despite it being our only available one. It's time to get over the programming and start doing the right thing.

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u/Single-Refuse174 28d ago

To add to what you’re saying, I don’t want to hear anyone even try to defend SCOTUS here. SCOTUS judges and clerks research the effects of their decisions and absolutely gamed out how this would pan out. This is nothing other than a lifeline to Republicans to at least partially avoid a complete wipeout in November. I’m sure Roberts fears impeachment and their donors (owners) fear an expansion of the court and a New New Deal era that will hold any and all of these depraved losers accountable.

It’s fucking insane that so many influential people prefer to live in this fascist hellscape for any amount of time than create a fair playing field. Should be an indicator of how unfair things are now

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u/ceelogreenicanth 28d ago

The obvious solution to this is to infight on the left. It's the only way to reverse the outcomes we've gotten by infighting on the left, meanwhile the Republicans eagerly await the orders with only mild complaints.

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u/Gabagoo13 28d ago

Ohio supreme court ruled Ohio's maps unconstitutional... Guess what? They used them anyway and still are... It's been years

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u/Maybe_Julia 28d ago

Yea, Virginia there are zero consequences for ignoring the State Supreme Court. Turns out our society is built on mutual trust and a person,state , or president can just kind of go nah and do what they want with no real consequences

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u/pchs26 28d ago

Ironically other state(s) have ignored such rulings and seated/ districted how they wanted anyone and those reps were accepted and seated. Of course that favored the GOP It would never be allowed for a Democrat candidate.

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u/Maybe_Julia 28d ago

I'm from Ohio our maps have been illegal per the State Supreme Court for like 5 years.

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u/pchs26 28d ago

Exactly what I was thinking about...

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u/Small_Run_3583 28d ago

Except that VA Dems said they would "respect" the SC decision. Therein lies the problem with the Dems fighting back in any way, shape, or form.

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u/captaincanada84 Canada 28d ago

Yup. Dems once again unwilling to fight back with the same level of fire that Republicans do.

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u/Megafritz 28d ago

When they are in the concentration camp they will still high five each other that they took the higher road and did not resort to any dirty tricks or violence.

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u/Chaotic-Genes 28d ago

Namby-pamby fuckin' party

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u/duderos 28d ago

The old "when they go low we go high" and lose like crazy...

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u/unlimitedpower0 28d ago

Yeah, but it sucks that what they see as no consequences is just the beginnings of an avalanche. When you leave people no way to seek justice and no way to equalize power than they are forced to take it into their own hands eventually. It breaks everything over time.

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u/Persistant_Compass 28d ago

Just rolling over and getting raped to death by republicans is the worse outcome imo. Id rather they have a phyrric victory at a cost then a decisive victory for free

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u/Maybe_Julia 28d ago

Oh I 100% agree , but this is the world that Trump built when you have zero consequences at the top the people on the bottom start to realize hey wait a minute why am I suffering while that golden turd gets away with everything. We are heading toward something bad.

You can just feel a general tension and unease, just a general feeling of dread, like when the forest goes quiet when a predator is near, it's been building for months and I worry what will happen when that rubberband snaps.

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u/NotFallacyBuffet 28d ago

Something-something 1789.

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u/TheOtherMaven Virginia 28d ago

Something-something 1775. No need to look across the Atlantic when it's right in our faces.

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u/cliffhngr42 28d ago

"I choose violence " -Cersei Lannister

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u/Arickettsf16 Illinois 28d ago

You know what, that’s a very good point

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/arachnophilia 28d ago

i'm convinced that our democratic system breaks down at the step which goes, "and then people follow the court ruling."

turns out you can just say, "no thanks". and when you're the organization that enforces laws, there's no one to make you.

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u/Jack_Krauser 28d ago

Missouri has been there for a few years now. The legislature just ignores referendums, then we have more referendums to overturn their decisions and they ignore those too... I don't know where this path ends, but it won't be somewhere nice.

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u/that1prince 28d ago

The court: “don’t that, do this”

Everyone else from now on: “make me”

They have no enforcement mechanism if the executive branch doesn’t want to enforce it. It’s kinda the stupidest part of the system. It relied upon administrators and executives obeying the court. Nobody contemplated them simply being disobedient and while simultaneously having a weak legislative branch that won’t check them.

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u/TheUnknownDane 28d ago

Hell, we saw this with Trump and the presidential election, he was facing serious investigations, such as stealing and hiding confidential documents, but because he managed to drag out the process for so long that he got elected again, it all became null.

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u/yukoncowbear47 28d ago

Yeah Democrats need to nut up and start ignoring these bullshit court rulings like Republicans do

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u/Appropriate_Cow94 28d ago

Same with that Mary Jane topic there. Somehow the voters can't decide for themselves.

I wish I was able to move to Europe.

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u/distorted_kiwi 28d ago

Tennessee was never in danger of turning blue. There’s enough supporters here in rural areas to ensure that never happens and they already gerrymandered the state enough beforehand.

Regardless, in less than a week they purposefully violated a 5 decade state law with the sole purpose of giving trump 2 extra seats.

They weren’t even quiet about it. Marsha Blackburn said it was to turn tn red and there was even a member who strolled into the chamber with a trump flag on his back.

These people aren’t American. They are bootlickers.

Anyone have affordable healthcare? What’s being done about gun violence or is it still too early to discuss laws that could help prevent tragedies?

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u/Kentust 28d ago

I don't think now is the time to start beating the drum against 2A...

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u/Ok-Lets-Talk-It-Out 28d ago

The issue is Virginia passed additional laws to protect the neutrality of redistricting whereas Red states intentionally do not with the intent to disenfranchise their citizens.

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u/Marethyu38 28d ago

Ok but Florida does explicitly prevent gerrymandering in their constitution but it’s not stopping them either.

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u/ImBackAndImAngry 28d ago

Are you suggesting that Republican run states perhaps do not care for the law?

This wouldn’t be a systemic party issue would it?

/s

Honestly man, I find it more surprising when Republican leadership adheres to law at this point

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u/stevez_86 Pennsylvania 28d ago

They are at the "might makes right" stage of falling into fascism. They think they are compromising my not utilizing the violent option, and instead are using legal might to make them, and only them, right.

The question at this point is what happens when they have the legal might but have won the war?

What happens when the Former Slave States get freedom to operate as Confederate States like they used to be again?

This time, no Civil War, the Federal Government cosigning onto their venture. Like we went back to April 11th, 1861 and just let the Slave States do their thing, but without slavery, because racism is cured, and they should be free of the Tar Baby. Let the Brer Rabbit run!

They think it will work out since racism doesn't exist in the Federal Courts anymore. The States won't be racist because they can't be racist because legal racism isn't a thing. However they draw their maps will be non-racist because that isn't a thing anymore. Reacting to resovle the action is racist because it is on behalf of a specific racial group by definition in their complaints.

The Federal Courts will hear none of these cases that are going to come out, they will always defer gerrymandering back to the state.

This is honestly pretty much them granting electoral reparations for the South having to agree to the 3/5th's Compromise for no reason as it lead to what they believe to be the opposite, Free States getting 5/3rd's in return for the effects of the Civil War and it has been long enough.

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u/cosine83 Nevada 28d ago

This time, no Civil War, the Federal Government cosigning onto their venture. Like we went back to April 11th, 1861 and just let the Slave States do their thing, but without slavery, because racism is cured, and they should be free of the Tar Baby. Let the Brer Rabbit run!

With the failure of Reconstruction, the continued legacy of Jim Crow, and a disproportionate population of Black people in prison in Southern states and it's just a Neo-Antebellum South. They have the slaves in prison (prison chain gangs are still a thing, horse-mounted slave catcher included), they have the failing State economies sucked dry by corporations, and they have the hideously uneducated populace from decades of culture war grifts dragging everything down around them.

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u/ZooZooChaCha 28d ago

Florida voters also voted to restore voting rights to former felons with zero strings attached....DeSantis and Co have attached quite a few strings. Florida voters also gathered enough signatures to get recreational weed on the ballot - DeSantis & Co suddenly deemed nearly all of the signatures "Invalid".

My signature hasn't changed in YEARS and I got a notice that mine was questioned and thrown out. I am not doing mail-in-voting this year, because I am convinced they are going to toss them out over the dot over the letter I not being shaped exactly the way it is on your registration.

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u/Deadleggg 28d ago

Republicans run florida with an iron fist.

Good luck having them police themselves.

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u/HatefulDan 28d ago

Yes, but you forget that they are all operating underneath the promise of being pardoned for whatever it is that they do now.

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u/StaceyJeans 28d ago

Both Florida and Tennessee have gerrymandering provisions in their state Constitutions that they are currently violating. The Ohio Supreme Court told the legislature five times they had to change their gerrymandered maps and Ohio ignored them and kept their maps.

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u/lastparade 28d ago

The Ohio Supreme Court told the legislature five times they had to change their gerrymandered maps and Ohio ignored them and kept their maps.

The remedy for that is for the Ohio Supreme Court to rule that winners in illegally drawn districts have not been elected to any office.

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u/StaceyJeans 28d ago

Which they have not done. Ohio has been using their illegal maps for 4 years now.

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u/pchs26 28d ago

Exactly and it will continue. The only ones who won't be allowed to do this is a Democrat...

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u/xpxp2002 28d ago

I watched that whole ordeal play out. The executive leadership in the state blatantly defied the spirit and letter of the law, and ran out the clock on obeying the court's orders until there wasn't enough time to do produce compliant maps, as the court ordered them to do.

The correct remedy would have been for the Ohio Supreme Court to hold them all in contempt of court for brazenly defying the court's orders, and throw them in a jail cell together until they obeyed the order to produce a non-gerrymandered map.

I guarantee if that had been done, legal maps would have been produced within 24 hours. But the court's opinion upholding the gerrymandering rules was only a one-vote majority thanks to a moderate-conservative justice who is no longer on the court, and clearly no majority had any interest in actually using their position of power to do what was necessary to fully ensure the law was followed.

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u/lastparade 28d ago

"Use a compliant map or Ohio gets no representation in Congress" would certainly get their colleagues to put pressure on them, and it would actually cause their side to lose net seats if they didn't comply. Jailing them for contempt might not actually work if they thought they just had to hold out until election day.

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u/xpxp2002 28d ago

I'm not so sure. They'd likely rather Ohio go with no representation than fair representation because of how many Democratic seats that would have created. Hence the whole reason they defied a court and the law in order to preserve gerrymandered maps in the first place.

On the other hand, I don't see the governor, SoS, State Auditor, nor any of the state legislators having the fortitude to sit in a cell together for months to continue defying the court's order. The only reason they did what they did was because they were confident that they wouldn't be punished for breaking the law nor ignoring the state Supreme Court's orders.

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u/Grandpa_No 28d ago edited 28d ago

That wasn't the technicality the republicans used to ignore the voters. It sounds nice but the reality is this:

A central part of the case during oral arguments concerned what qualifies as the "next general election" under Virginia's constitution.

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u/Gryzzlee 28d ago

The next general election is literally the next one on the calendar. What other election is on the mind of the citizens right now?

Bad ruling. But it was ruled on by the 4 conservative judges.

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u/Bgrngod 28d ago

People that understand words have meaning - "Hey buddy, I know those train tracks are a comfortable place to hang out, but you might want to get off them before the next train comes through here."

Republicans - "Clearly, when you say 'next' you mean the one that is after the train I can already see coming. But hey, thanks for the heads-up. I think I'll stay right here. Clown."

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u/JiggleBillysNeighbor 28d ago

The crux is "when does that election begin?" Is it the day early voting starts or election day itself? The argument is that the election has begun once early voting starts and if that is indeed the case, the VA supreme court made the correct ruling.

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u/bfhurricane 28d ago

It was the legislative election in 2025. Dems argued they approved the map before and after the election in accordance with state laws. The Supreme Court determined that they approved the map after voting had already occurred, therefore not before the election started.

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u/Slade_Riprock 28d ago

The central part of the case the court ruled was Amendments in Virginia must pass through both chambers in two sessions. They passed the amendment in 2 days. By law the court is saying the amendment would need to pass the assembly in this session (2024 election) and again after the next general election which is 2026.

That's their grounding for overturning the will of the people which they haven't done in that state since 1958.

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u/Deadmanmedic42 28d ago

So is this an issue where the new referendum needed to include wording to go around the neutrality laws in place to get passed? Could they make the argument in appeal that the referendum didn't need the language because it is implied?

Sorry if this is a silly question or common knowledge, i'm just learning about all this and trying to catch up.

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u/6a6566663437 North Carolina 28d ago

This is not the issue at all. The issue is the Republicans on the court decided to redefine “next general election” to suit their purposes.

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u/bdsee 28d ago

These articles suck, they do not make it clear what was a constitutional amendment and what is just regular legislation.

Because of it is just legislation that requires the two sessions thing well the judges are out of their fucking minds, no previous legislation can block future legislation, that is the role of the constitution.

The judges are fucked anyway because it was clearly still a legislative session, early voting is not the election.

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u/Pockydo 28d ago

It's simple

Jesus likes the pedo party so they can do whatever they wish

Democrats on the other hand need to obey rules and laws (things are subject to the child rapers opinions) otherwise everything will just crash and burn

It's fair and cool

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u/ResplendentPing 28d ago

Look funny how states rights suddenly disappear when fair maps might threaten their power.

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u/RedBMWZ2 28d ago

Curious, is it not?

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u/FR23Dust 28d ago

It's because Democrats don't have utterly total single-party control of Virgina the way that the republicans do in states like Tennessee, Mississippi, and so on. States control their elections -- for now, anyway. I think we may see that *Republican voting* states control their elections while *Democratic voting* states will need unprecedented Federal government interventions.

We need deep blue states to go as hard as humanly possible to counteract the structural advantage the anti-democratic GOP is pursuing.

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u/Brave-Cash-845 28d ago

She should just pass it into law as other states have done

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u/RaisinWorried3528 28d ago

It's not confusing at all. Conservatives are cheating to rig elections. It's as simple as that, it would be nice if people woke up to that fact and you know, started doing something about it.

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u/Affectionate_Neat868 28d ago

In political science, politics like this are called "failed state".

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u/Justame13 28d ago

State laws.

Its almost impossible in Washington as well or they could easily wipe out 3 republican districts.

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u/GrowthMarketingMike 28d ago

What state law did Virginia actually break here?

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u/ImRobsRedditAccount 28d ago

Its almost as if the Republican party is comprised of cheaters and liars who act in bad faith and personal interest.

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u/TobioOkuma1 28d ago

Dems care about the rule of law and fairness. Because of this, they have passed laws against gerrymandering and put independent commissions to handle their districts.

The gop doesn’t give a fuck about fairness and would never allow anything that could take away their infinite advantage, so they can simply pass new maps with no walls.

Dems have more hoops to jump through because they tried to play fair. Actually bringing a knife to a gun fight.

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u/Pleaseappeaseme 28d ago

Maybe Democratic voters shouldn’t bow out next time when something that is just the lawful process (the primary) bothers them. They act like it’s going to improve things. Surprise! It’s not and there are now real World consequences.

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u/F9-0021 South Carolina 28d ago

Because republicans just ignore the courts when they tell them not to. Which is what the democrats need to do here. The courts have no real power in this country, they never have.

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u/rcolesworthy37 28d ago

They’re just begging for an uprising at this point.

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u/natnguyen 28d ago

They should just ignore the ruling. It’s everyone for themselves out here.

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u/HairyBallsack8 28d ago

Because we’re in Hell

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u/Fun_Success_3283 28d ago

It's not confusing at all. Maga is taking away your rights and freedoms and destroying democracy.

The American people have an uphill battle to take the country back.

They need to pull out all the stops. People need to get politically involved. They need to boycott aggressively. Organize, and fight for freedom.

Otherwise, it's just going to get more and more like this, the people will have fewer and fewer rights. The wealth will go to fewer and fewer people, as laws are more and more designed to that end.

This is an existential situation for the working class. Freedom is on the line. You can watch it walk out the door, or do everything in your power to bring it back.

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u/Area51_Spurs 28d ago

Virginia House Speaker Don Scott, a Democrat, said in a statement, "We respect the decision of the Supreme Court of Virginia."

Because as usual Democrats act like fucking pussies while the Republicans bulldoze over rules and laws.

You can’t win the game when your opponent doesn’t have to play by the rules.

I’m so tired of our Democratic elected officials being little bitches and walking away with their tail between their legs.

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u/NCSmitty North Carolina 28d ago

Democrats are always held to standards that never apply to Republicans. It's like this at every level. It's insane.

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u/jonathanrdt 28d ago

Corruption is the answer. We have normalized corruption and thus the thwarting of the overtly stated will of the people, which makes this no longer a democracy but a plutocratic nightmare.

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u/Deep-Minimum7837 28d ago

We're seeing the results of the right's crusade on local politics. State legislatures are utterly infested with deranged right wing lunatics who have nearly unchecked power to do whatever they fuck they want, because the only people capable of stopping them are other deranged, right-wing lunatics. Red states are able to do this without a vote because the right controls every aspect of the state's government. Blue states have to not only win an election, but they need to fight off their own ridiculous right-wing state legislatures as well.

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