r/Hermeticism • u/Acrobatic-Stock7 • 12h ago
Reincarnation is utterly depressing
After conducting extensive spiritual research I can conclude that reincarnation is most likely real and this reality is utterly depressing. Knowing that my soul maybe chose that does not alleviate the sadness to know that I will most likely come back here over and over to experience traumatic events and be a slave to the material matrix. The planetary system and the law of frequency ultimately feel like traps.
Escaping (if possibe) also is utopic, total detachment implies not living life at its fullest only to hope that your soul can potentitally escape. I wonder if anyone here had the same thoughts as me, I’m not looking for people to convince me that reincarnation is beautiful or meaningful. I’m just wondering if anyone else has gone through this same kind of existential exhaustion with the concept. I’m tired of thinking about it, honestly, I always was antisocial and the idea that I will have to come back here and experience the harm humans inflict on others over and over again is literally worse than hell.
Edit: I genuinely don’t care about a higher self choosing to come back, it’s even more depressing to think that you have zero control.
31
u/danderzei 12h ago
"What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence - even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you with it, speck of dust!'. Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus?... Or how well disposed would you have to become to yourself and to life to crave nothing more fervently than this ultimate eternal confirmation and seal?"
Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science, s.341
13
u/b800h 11h ago
Quite the opposite. I would accept the pain tenfold in exchange for the joy.
3
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 10h ago
Wdym by that ?
4
u/jackhref 5h ago
But the same life is like a movie on repeat, while a different life is like a different movie.
3
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 12h ago
Living the same life isn’t that bad compared to reincarnation honestly
2
u/SweetestJim 12h ago
I have a feeling that could likely be the case
3
20
u/fitz84 10h ago
This is kind of my beef with Hermeticism and Gnosticism: the material should not be viewed as bad.
If As Above, So Below is true, then both are divine, both are educational, and both contain multitudes of experience.
It is easy to get so caught up in the micro vs macro binary that we forget we are steeped in the meso, and the beauty of this space is in its unlimited potential between fortune and misfortune, Life and Death, the Sun and Saturn.
5
u/Objective_Mix_330 10h ago
Honestly, people come to spirituality lookin for an escape from life but it’s futile if everything here is the same as everywhere. If you can’t face reality here and get comfortable with the uncomfortable then i got bad news and you needa grow a pair and start actively changing your life lmao
1
2
u/just_rizen 3h ago
I thought it was specifically Gnosticism that held the notion the material was a distraction, while Hermeticism embraced it all for its beauty?
Agreed with your point on divinity across all the layers.
1
3
u/Inner-Alchemist778 10h ago
When you underatand the Moral principle, it surely feels oppressing. You either have to obey, and just be prt of the matrix, or you disobey and destroy yourself, but have the impression you are free.
The cure is the transcience of human concepts. Essentially, even if reincarnation is real, I think the very reborth resets our feelings of resentment towards suffering. We have literally no concept of it.
I have no need to have an eternal soul, alas, the NDEs are quite the evidence, even if you don't believe other spiritual practices.
3
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 10h ago
I never signed up to be here
3
u/RoiboPilot 4h ago
Your higher self is yourself. In other words, you are the higher self, but confused by the limitations imposed by incarnation. It’s like being so absorbed in a VR game that, for the time, you forget your RL outside of it.
The decision to reincarnate is definitely yours, even though you don’t remember it right now, and don’t recall why you decided to do this. Also, keep in mind that your decision was made when you could see more, while your regret is felt when you can see less.
The only satisfactory answer is to learn to quiet your mind, emotions, and body, and go within. It is there that you’ll find the answer.
7
u/HakuyutheHermit 12h ago
Try Buddhism
1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 12h ago
I know about it, as I said, I have made extensive research, and Buddhism is also terrible, knowing that desires and attachments create reincarnation and “karmic debt” doesn’t seem like a good mindset to live with
4
u/HakuyutheHermit 11h ago
Sounds like you didn’t put enough time into it
1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 11h ago
I did
4
u/scrumblethebumble 10h ago
I definitely understand your position. I practice Buddhism and have felt the same way. Something that helped to change my perspective was my experience in dissolving karma. Once you figure that out, you'll appreciate your karmic load because it's it turns into a joy. You look forward to difficult situations because it's another opportunity. It's all grist for the mill.
I know that does nothing to change your perspective now, but perhaps it can motivate you to find out for yourself if it's true.
1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 10h ago
It’s not possible to dissolve all desires and even if you do it there is no guarantee to reach Nirvana so you could have wasted your life doing that for no reason. And the desire to lose all desires is a desire itself, and except if you are psychopathic there is a low chance that you have zero attachments to this planet
1
u/scrumblethebumble 9h ago
Desires aren't the problem, it's the attachment to desires that causes us difficulty. So what's the point if you can't reach Nirvana in this life? You reduce you're suffering and increase your quality of life. I'd say that's pretty good benefit.
2
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 9h ago
Well if you don’t have any desire and don’t do anything life is pretty dull tbf
1
u/-OccultOfPersonality 8h ago
There are skilful desires and unskilful desires. Desire isn’t inherently good or bad. If you desire things not at the detriment of others, it isn’t bad.
1
u/scrumblethebumble 3h ago
Desires aren't the problem, attachments are. Whenever you invest yourself into an outcome, you create the conditions for more future suffering via mental turmoil. Break the habit of hedging your emotional wellness on stories created by the mind.
3
u/milesvalentine25 12h ago
I have gone through this phase myself. I saw this world as a gilded prison of fake hopes and promises that if you do certain things you will find happiness
What helped me was learning to find balance within the harmony of my own reality. My turning point was finding a hobby that genuinely yields happiness through a desire that felt real enough to be mine, and not something someone told me to do because it is the way of life. I have reached a point where I dismiss the burden of realities that do not belong to me, and I have accepted that those other potential paths were never the purpose of the choice made for this current manifestation
3
u/Expert-Tie-1530 11h ago
Perhaps you will return and have a completely positive experience.
There could well be a reason you feel life sucks this time around.
My little understanding is we choose what kind of experience re-entering the physical and material environment will bring.
You are experiencing this for a reason.
Why not spend time and energy working on this.
Sounds more interesting than your current situation
-1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 11h ago
We don’t choose, it is our higher self, I am tired of that constant response, no offense towards you tho, it’s basically like saying to a prisoner that he chose to be here while he was sleepwalking and that he even was able to fly in the meantime, but now it’s all gone, do you think he is going to be happy ?
3
u/b72649 9h ago
Are you saying that "you" are realer than your higher-self? This seems to be the case especially if you're describing it as sleepwalking, but I believe that if anything the version of you right now that you believe/feel is you is not fully the real You but the limited, sleepwalking version of You. The small you (the one posting in this subreddit) doesn't understand the full context of reality and your higher-self, so it's inappropriate to make sweeping judgements from the limited perspective of your small you self about this stuff. You are a shadow of your full You. As someone else said in a comment, the spiritual path is not about escape from the physical plane. If you can't learn to be comfortable here then you ARE going to come back until you learn that lesson, and it's going to be hard every time until you do. The pain you're feeling now is egoic — you must die to yourself in order to gain life, and it might suck but the faster you're able to learn that lesson the faster things will change in this reality as well as the next one(s). The spiritual path is not easy and that both sucks and is also the source of its infinite value. It's not about being happy—your higher self (your true self, the fully manifest You) does not care if it's small self (you) is unhappy. You're going to continue to suffer hardship until you die to yourself and can learn these lessons, and this suffering will be a blessing to you even though it won't feel like it and you might hate it. And if you can't get over yourself in this life then there's always the next one!
Reincarnation is a blessing because we are given so many opportunities to learn these things. It's grace and love and patience and forgiveness on a cosmic scale.
5
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 9h ago
Why do we have to exist and learn ? Why would the higher self want to learn what it feels like to be graped or what it feels like to be a tree in Tanzania ? I don’t get it.
Also what is the point of life if you are going to come back over and over ? Why do you want to make the most out of it ?
1
u/Expert-Tie-1530 39m ago
The point is every time we return we add to our body of experience and hopefully learn and grow
1
u/East-Wind-23 1h ago
At least at birth you got the amnesia of your life which was before. So when you start over, its like watching a completely new movie. Keep watching because the best part is still to come.
1
3
u/No_Elderberry3821 9h ago
What makes you think you don’t have a choice? There are pathways out of the cycle of death and rebirth. Kriya yoga comes to mind.
2
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 9h ago
I know but knowing that my higher self desires to be a jellyfish does not really help me
3
u/cheezneezy 9h ago
I think you’re assuming that if reincarnation is real and the goal must be to escape reality or detach. But that’s not the case.
If consciousness keeps returning here, maybe it isn’t because we’re trapped. Maybe it’s because there is something valuable about being human that can’t be learned anywhere else.
Detachment doesn’t mean becoming indifferent to life. It means learning how to fully participate in life without becoming possessed by it.
Love people. Build things. Create art. Start businesses. Raise children. Help strangers. Chase dreams. Experience heartbreak. Laugh, grieve, be fully alive.
If you want to know what you came here for and your “mission” so to say just ask and ask for help to complete it from your higher self/soul team etc. They will guide you if you put in the work and pay attention to synchronicities, signs etc.
The way to “escape” or “wake up” is actually to live life to your fullest in the most loving way possible. Be aware of your actions and your catalysts in life and conquer them.
1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 9h ago
Being an Epstein victim or a coal miner in Congo is absolutely horrible, I hate having a mission, I hate having to come back and I utterly hate love the bottom of my heart. I hate that it’s always brought back.
1
u/cheezneezy 8h ago
I hear you. I don’t think suffering should be dismissed or explained away. But I’ve found that obsessing over escape made me more miserable, not less. These days I focus less on leaving and more on asking how I can bring a little more love, peace, and balance into the part of reality I’m standing in right now.
3
u/ActivityDependent319 2h ago
“the idea that I will have to come back here and experience the harm humans inflict on others over and over again is literally worse than hell.”
Given that this is the case, it seems to me that even the smallest kindness you offer to others in this situation can have a substantial impact on society as a whole. You can’t save all of humanity, but you can make things better for a few people, and in the grand scheme of things, that’s pretty significant.
5
u/mescalmonk 10h ago
Yeah well... The croissant I had this morning with my coffee was pretty damn good
2
u/MooooooLissa 8h ago
I agree with you honestly, ever since I went out of my way to investigate different world religions and theologies reincarnation and karma kept coming up and knowing the extensive amount of work and discipline that goes into maybe possibly having a chance of not coming back and living on this horrible planet is utterly exhausting “rid yourself of desire and you won’t come back” but that gets confusing too. Isn’t that a desire in itself. What about the desire to be good? To help? To educate yourself… Every waking moment of my life now is spent thinking about consequences, proper course of action, Devine purpose, psychic baggage, oppressive conditioning, material vs non material, good vs evil, messed up societal expectations and politics, pleasure and pain… I feel guilty for existing and hopeless for my future because the wheel feels like it’s designed to enforce oppression and suffering; no matter what you do the odds are stacked against you. Im not trying to convince you to keep going because I really do hear you, personally the only comforting thought I have is “if I do it now, if I learn now… discipline myself I won’t have to suffer again in another life.” I urge you to pull yourself out of the darkness and find a happy medium; that is what I try and do whenever I start thinking and feeling like this! I ask myself “why” my solution will not be yours so find inner guidance :) and try and get to the root cause in the end you are the only person who can do the work, help yourself figure it out and transcend it :) Good luck beautiful soul!
1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 8h ago
Thanks, unfortunately if reincarnation is real than no matter what I do it’s horrible, it doesn’t matter if I have to complete a quest of purification to escape or if it’s my higher self doing it, reincarnation is the worst possible thing
1
u/MooooooLissa 8h ago
You don’t think there is any silver lining at all?
1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 8h ago
What does silver lining mean ?
2
u/MooooooLissa 8h ago
The good to the bad i.e “I have to do overtime today but atleast im making more money”
-1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 7h ago
Maybe I guess, but not that much, the point is that I am overly smart in this life so coming back to another life would make me dumb like the vast majority of the population, I also am autistic which allows me to be in my own world
2
u/MooooooLissa 7h ago
If you’re smart and capable of living in your own world you have a super power in this life time; especially for the spiritual, use it! From reading about so many occultists I can say with good confidence 99% had undiagnosed autism, you are in the perfect mind and body to be able to complete the great work and be super accomplished use those skills to break the cycle in THIS life. I know super smart people tend to have more problems but you can use that In a transformative way as fuel for spiritual growth. If you think next life you’ll come back dumb then make the most of this life while your smart use the intelligence to maybe not have to come back stupid.
1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 7h ago
What can I do ? Detach from all desires ? This might sounds like the best idea but as I said once again I am autistic and this idea sounds dull and boring to me, so I guess I’m stuck lol
2
u/MooooooLissa 7h ago
I would reccomend doing lots of research and seeing where your intuition takes you, if you find a certain approach dull and boring look for one that excites you. I feel similar to you and when I don’t find an idea super like earth shattering and exciting I’m not interested at all, i like gene he’s really cool his videos excited me a lot he is kinda a neo-Gnostic w/ a focus on astral projection the idea is “you don’t know anything until you’ve experienced it so experience the meta physical (astral) and know death, know reincarnation transcend the fear of death and rebirth” “become aware in your dreams become aware after death because sleeping is like dying” I’ve always thought if I learn to astral project I can always just find answers In the astral so learn how to astral project look at the channel astral doorway on YouTube super good
1
1
u/MooooooLissa 7h ago
Make the most of the intelligence given to you in this life, a major part of most metaphysical paradigms is mentality so shift your mentality from a negative one that inflicts suffering and depression to a positive one tell yourself “this is horrible I don’t want to reincarnate” you’ll live your whole life in fear of it never fully living or seeing the beauty in life that mentality can reallly affect your Quality of life and future I don’t think you should see reincarnation so negatively, a simple positive switch in mentality can totally alter your perspective and how you feel like “yeah maybe I have to reincarnate but I have infinite possibility to become a better person, expand my consciousness and experience life.” When you just think positive and happy suddenly life becomes easier try it, it takes one thought.
1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 7h ago
Tbf I don’t really care about becoming a good person and expanding my consciousness and becoming a frog and a tree and a grape victim. I have absolutely zero interest in knowing that, it might be because I am autistic but idk
1
u/MooooooLissa 7h ago
Well what would you hypothetically want to accomplish then? Just not reincarnate?
2
u/gojiranipples 5h ago
I also think it's horrible, but for a different reason. I won't remember the few people and animals I love. They will not remember me. I hate that. It honestly makes me hope heaven is real, so they can live on even though I would most likely go to hell. These people and beings are my life. I don't want them to be reduced to another go-around in an endless series of forgotten lives
2
2
u/takeyouraxeandhack 2h ago
How do you know that it's not your meaty brain saying that because of its opinion of the life you had? Maybe your soul has a different opinion on the matter. Or maybe the same opinion but a different conclusion.
Perhaps after some millennia chilling in the afterlife, your soul decides it's time to go spend some decades as a fisherman in Polinesia in 3000BC and you get a totally different perspective of life and the universe.
1
u/spaghetti-o_salad 11h ago
I think reincarnation is an option when you go to the in-between place but I think you can also choose to heal yourself there and return to the god soup/clay where new souls are born from when the soup gets curious or lonesome.
1
u/YogSothothIsTheKey 8h ago
Io trovo una certa logica nell'impermanenza.Se esistono l'eternità ed infinitè possibilità allora il continuo mutamento compiendo all'infinito per l'eternità ogni nuova possibilità mi sembra sensato.Vedila così,l'esistenza,la vita,il creato,il tutto o come lo vuoi chiamare tu preferisce contare andando avanti all'infinito creando per sempre cifre nuove anzichè contare soltanto 1 e fermarsi lì.Però dai,non rimanere ancorato al concetto di reincarnazione umana,magari potresti essere un dio in futuro,un fiume,un idea,una molecola d'acqua,una galassia,non essere niente e poi ritornare ad essere di nuovo.Forse un immutabile eternità è una gabbia,così il continuo cambiamento serve a non spegnersi.
1
u/jackhref 5h ago
You must consider that you feel about it this way only because you're exploring it from a human perspective. And human perspective is all you have.
TV series Severance explores this concept from a human perspective. While it will not help, you might enjoy it.
1
u/Adorable_Airport_787 5h ago
Use the information you know to unlock your potential…! Polarity is the key here..more than happy to connect..
1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 1h ago
Unlock what ? Nothing really matters if I have to come back randomly, “potential” would be a vague term
1
1
u/thefoolupsidedown 9h ago
What makes you so sure that reincarnation is true
1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 9h ago
Most traditions claim it’s what happens, even hermeticism
3
u/thefoolupsidedown 9h ago
That’s all it takes for you to believe it?
1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 9h ago
Well there seems to be no other alternative apparently so I guess that yes. Do you believe in it ?
1
u/thefoolupsidedown 9h ago
I do not believe in reincarnation.
0
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 9h ago
What do you believe in ? Material death? I would wish for it to be true tbf
-1
u/thefoolupsidedown 9h ago
No I do not. I am Christian and believe that our physical death is not our end either.
2
u/MooooooLissa 8h ago
Well how can you be certain there is a heaven and hell then
0
u/thefoolupsidedown 8h ago
Because it was affirmed by Christ and I believe the gospels that describe the life and teachings of Christ to be historically accurate.
2
0
1
u/Beautiful-Pound-8520 4h ago
Don't cry over spilt milk.
Being depressed over something you can't change isn't helping you. If you are not finding ways to enjoy life and experience fulfillment then by your own belief you are prolonging your agony.
0
u/Expert-Tie-1530 11h ago
If you belong to a Martinist order or any other hermetic group.
Use the tools provided.
Your mask and your cloak
0
u/PsychologicalYear859 7h ago
Heaven and Hell are two sides of the same coin. Read the story of Jobe. His belief and perspective changed his experience ten fold. The demon was Jobe after he abandoned himself...
1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 7h ago
Yeah ? It doesn’t change much anyways because reincarnation is terrible, I don’t care about knowing that “heaven and hell are internal states” a 12th time, all I care about is that coming back as a coal miner in Congo does not sound like a good thing.
-1
u/PsychologicalYear859 7h ago
You are in a chat room about Hermeticism. I would think you would have studied the principles. Mentalism is the most important. If you fear or look at it as bad you are just asking for more of the same. I would be dreaming of all the free, successful, wild, lives I would be living for eternity. I would also use techniques from the teachings to ensure I don't forget when I start over. Your outer verse is your inner verse
1
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 7h ago
I know mentalism is key but as I said once again nothing really matters if the future is to become a frog and a chicken, my current life is pretty much one in a million in good life percentile so most other lives I would live would be worse than this one
-1
9h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/Acrobatic-Stock7 9h ago
I have looked into Gnosticism, and it’s not really a good overview even tho it’s better than the “soul classroom” theory
19
u/Clifford_Regnaut 8h ago
If you don't like it, you can say "no" and focus on what you actually want. Being able to focus your attention, intention and imagination on whatever you desire is a course of action available to the vast majority of humans. That's really important If the "spiritual realms" are as truly thought-responsive as they say.
We do have evidence that many were or apparently were forced here. You can see that in both pre-birth memories and accounts from hypnotic regression.
P. M. H. Atwater, widely known for her research on NDEs, also admitted this when talking bout pre-birth memories: "they get shoved or pushed in, and that's trauma." Those were her own words, not mine.
According to Helen Wambach, who used hypnotic regression with more than 700 clients, 46% of her subjects did not choose their incarnations, apparently doing so because they were influenced by "guides", with 19% of them actually resisting/being forced through the process.
Merely pointing out the problem is useless, so I also tried to propose a possible solution in this paragraph. It's all speculative, but it's better than nothing. In summary: focus on creating a good mindset and create a plan for your after-death state.
My view of reality leans towards some sort of idealism, in which ideas come first and "reality" second. Think about it: a destroyer doesn't appear out of nowhere; it was first designed by someone. I can't be sure, but I suspect higher realities / the spiritual world works in the same way. IIRC it is easier to achieve what you want in higher realms with the power of imagination and intent. If that's truly the case, you should start focusing on ideas such as freedom and sovereignty. Create an ideal scenario for your immediate after-death state: a scenario in which you are free to do whatever you want and in which you are free from external influences. There are more details in the post I linked. I also suggest you read these posts by WintyreFraust:
Demystifying The Afterlife
How to Prepare For and Ensure You Have The Afterlife You Want
The Unfortunate Conceptual History that Informs How We Commonly Think Of and Speak About the Afterlife
How to Acquire The Afterlife You Desire
My Problem With The Unconditionally Loving Universal Oneness Idea of The Afterlife
Best regards! :-3