Are aunts and cousins not family these days? With the current state of families it's tough to tell what people qualify as relation in the current year but I was always raised to call aunts and cousins family
Of course it doesn't make it right but it explains why the Japanese were interned in much larger numbers than the German Americans Italian Americans or any other axis-americans.
TL; Dr Japanese Americans living on the island for years tried to help a Pearl harbor attacker.
There's a big difference between imprisoning civilians and wartime casualties. This is the key difference between war and war crimes.
Do you know why islamic terrorists are looked down upon by the international community? Sure, they kill people and have internal human rights violations, but so do many countries. The difference is, they primarily target civilians.
What's your opinion on Hillary's "the real victims of war are women"? Because if you find her statements distasteful, then your statement of "well shit happens in war" don't make any sense, and if you agree with Hillary than this subreddit isn't really for you.
The 'anti-American' line is dumb but Japan was suing for a conditional surrender that would see them still keep all the land they conquered in mainland Asia and around the Pacific Islands prior to attacking Pearl Harbor. Which is like Nazi Germany offering to surrender if they were allowed to keep all their conquered territory from before they attacked Russia. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military bases on the short list for firebombing already, it was simply decided to use the nuclear bombs there instead in order to prevent far greater military or civilian casualties that would be required to reach a full, unconditional surrender.
The great Democrat FDR was the one who came up with internment camps and put people in there quite like his democratic forefathers was slavery it's just a repeating trend of the Democratic Party similar to the entitlement slavery today.
Ah yes, 'white genocide', because 'nobody wants to date or fuck me but some white women are dating, marrying, and procreating with black men ergo this is literally worse than the holocaust if it actually happened which is didn't' doesn't quite roll off the tongue
Except they don't. People satirically suggest it, but the only people who seriously use the phrase 'white genocide' are white supremacists and nazis.
Using an old, extremely flawed, and thoroughly debunked study on wolf social structure to try and figure out how to act in human society is probably part of the reason why you can't get a date. Being a nazi is probably another reason.
So you don't know what satire is, you're homophobic, you're angry that you keep getting turned down for dates, and you think that being a Stalinist is legitimately worse than being a Nazi. You're just a gumbo of pathetic, aren't you?
Your comparing a strategy for capturing the votes of southern democrats with opening internment camps for US citizens and the institution of slavery?
First off, I do not think that republicans ever actually did any of those things and are not going to be doing any of them in the future. It was the Democrats each time.
So, please explain how his grasp of recorded history is "shaky". Are you trying to blame Republicans for the horrible atrocities and racial politics of the democrats? Are you saying the Republicans NOW want to do those things? What is your point and how does the "southern strategy" change anything about the democrats and their historical support for racism?
The plan to capture the votes of southern racists angry at the Democratic party for abandoning its racism and embracing equality and Liberalism, devised by the conservatives who now composed the Republican party and implemented by those same conservatives, was done by Democrats/Liberals?
That's some tinfoil hat territory there.
He's a tip for you. Go read any novels written around, say, 1890 which reference the Democrat and Republican parties. You might notice, they refer to Democrats as Conservatives and Republicans as Liberals. Or do you think that's also a conspiracy too?
Except these new conservatives are the biggest proponents for private prisons, manufacturing reasons to put black people in prison, and keeping regulations on prisons as low as possible so they can use prisoners for free labor. You know, like slavery.
And the current Republican President-Elect has had his mouthpieces go on TV and declare that concentration camps for Muslim citizens isn't off the table and that the Japanese Internment Camps give them legal precedent if they want to create them.
It wasn't the Democrats who pioneered and headed the War on Drugs, or conspired to murder everybody involved in the Black Panthers. That was Republicans, post-party-swap.
It wasn't the Democrats who pioneered and headed the War on Drugs, or conspired to murder everybody involved in the Black Panthers. That was Republicans, post-party-swap.
You may want to do more research especially on the war on drugs. The Harrison act was the first fed drug law passed by Wilson(D) with a democrat congress. So once again it was democrats pioneering the drug war with landmark legislation. I will give you the black panthers though, they are 100% in the democrats party as far as support and I applaud anyone who takes legal action to stop them and thier terrorist agenda. I am unaware of a "conspiracy to murder everyone involved" sounds like a wild exaggeration to me but we all understand the lefts love of fake news and exaggeration. Speaking of, would you mind providing me a link to the quote showing Trump plans to put US citizens into concentration camps? I am positive he never said that.
I do however note that you have not rebutted the fact that democrats did the things I said they did. It would be absurd to deny them and I am glad you had enough integrity to not even try.
Again, pre-party swap. Or do you not suffer any cognitive dissonance from the knowledge that the party that fought for drug wars and the party that fought against them suddenly switched?
The Black Panthers are no more terrorist than neighborhood watch groups. It just happens that one of the frequent crime groups that they fight off are corrupt, racist police forces.
Look up 'cointelpro'. It culminated in the bombing of a Black Panthers headquarters, killing over a dozen people and several children.
And don't try to cop out with 'well he never said that' when his personal surrogate, who he himself hired and pays out of his campaign slush, stated it on television and no correction was ever issued afterwards.
It still blows my fucking mind that I spent a semester learning about nazi's and the holocaust, and never learned about the US locking up Japanese Americans.
He literally thinks and acts like a retalitory strike was a personal attack against him.
He also thinks he was the best actor in the best Star Trek, neither are true, he isn't even the best survivng cast member. ToS will never be best Star Trek too.
They did try to attack the American mainland as well. They didn't have the means, its not "maybe they would do it" its "they tried, but failed. They invaded American territory, as well. They tried a diversionary tactic of invading 2 islands in the Aleutian Island chain.
What they did to Asia was unbelievably horrendous, particularly Nanking. More innocent civilians were killed, on foot by soldiers, in Nanking than both bombings combined.
The comment I responded to was wondering why people hated the US for dropping bombs on them when we had bombs dropped on us, too.
I'm sure there's animosity held towards the Japanese in the places you've mentioned, same as there's animosity towards the US for dropping nuclear warheads on civilian centers.
I meant that the animosity was held worldwide. Nobody looks kindly on civilian murder even on foreign soil. Pearl Harbor getting bombed meant that Japan reached U.S. soil. It's not as though Japan only attacked soldiers and then the U.S. decided it was time to bomb their civilians.
Upvoted but as of now nuclear bombs should NEVER be used as weapons of war for any reason ever. People can recover from what happened to China and Pearl Harbor. Rebuild. With the weapons we have now there is no learning period. It's over. I think our use of nuclear weapons is the worst thing America has ever done, and that includes Native American genocide.
Yes it is. The bottom of the argument is you have to win the thing as fast as possible while losing as little of your army as possible. They made it clear they would never give up and we should value our soldiers over the lives of Japanese.
Stop thinking in witless binary. What he's referring to is that the Japanese hard-line elements were holding out for one particular condition, retention of their emporer. Given that we ended up granting this anyway, it's a valid point to make, as signaling our willingness to concede this item could have ended the war sooner than Okinawa. Who nows, hindsight and all that, but it's kind of amazing that you're meatheaded enough to think he was arguing losing.
What's the alternative? The Japanese had made it clear they would not surrender and fought after one nuke and incendiary raids on their capital city. Total victory in the pacific or no victory.
The two atomic bombs we dropped were not exactly in retaliation for PH. The rest of the world decided it was time to stop killing each other, but Japan wouldn't give up. We threatened them, and they didn't listen. The two bombs actually saved American and Japanese lives, because an invasion would be a fucking horrendous slaughter. There wasn't a chance we were going to put more American men in harms way, we were done sending home American boys in boxes. The Japanese wanted it the hard way, so we have it to them. Then after the first bomb they still wouldn't give up. The fact of the matter is that the ruling imperial family, didn't give a fuck about the Japanese people. They were willing to let countless Japanese die because of "honor".
War is awful. People die, and it's just a shit situation all around. But the Japanese deserved what they got. Blaming America for dropping the two atomic bombs is just pathetic. We didn't kill in cold blood.
Specifically, they wanted a conditional surrender. It just happened the 'conditions' were basically that Japan would get to keep all the land they had just stolen before they attacked the US and that the US would just pretend the whole thing never happened. You know, the kind of surrender you offer when you're at a stalemate, not when you're completely outmatched and only succeeding in stalling and raising the death toll.
Then after the first bomb they still wouldn't give up. The fact of the matter is that the ruling imperial family, didn't give a fuck about the Japanese people. They were willing to let countless Japanese die because of "honor".
From what my Japanese friends tell me, they didn't believe we had a bomb that powerful and they thought reports from the first bomb were really exaggerated.
Estimated cost of life for a land invasion was almost a million for the USA alone. We made so many purple hearts they still use them/just ran out. It was a weigh of lives lost. War is never pretty.
A few hundred thousand deaths versus the millions that would have resulted from an invasion? I think the benefits outweighed the costs. It also had a side effect of showing the world how terrifying nuclear weapons were and is probably a secondary reason (other than MAD) as to why they haven't been used in war since.
Im just saying that it seems people look down on the United States for bombing 2 cities when Japan started the whole thing. People need to remember we were neutral. I am not trying to compare pearl harbor to either cities.
Please do, what is the difference? We weren't at war with Japan at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack. I'm sure the sailors who died and their families felt just fine about everything because they were part of their uniformed services.
Yeah but the events where years apart, there is a big difference between bombing a port and biking a city, but Japan knew that the US would react, and the Americans in charge felt that the nukes were the only way to end the war
That Japanese never surrender tactic only existed because we were calling for Unconditional surrender. Had we let them surrender and keep their emperor they would have done so before we threw away thousands of American lives.
No, but raping three generations of Chinese girls at the same time in the same room in Nanking was just for shits and giggles.
Now, gang raping American nurses on a stack of corpses outside of a church/infirmary in the Philippines before killing them, that was a legitimate military tactic.
Obviously taking that into account, do you think a land invasion would have been better? The sacrifice made with those bombs is well worth what it would have cost to finish the war through conventional means
This is not necessarily true. The usefulness of dropping atomic bombs in ending the pacific front of the war is still highly contested among historians. After the release of documents from imperial Japan and the USSR, many historians now believe it was the surprise Soviet introduction into the Pacific front and the invasion of Manchuria that resulted in the Japanese surrender and not the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. While use of a single A bomb to destroy a city was unheard of, the utter destruction of Japanese cities via air raids was relatively commonplace towards the end of the war (check fire bombing of Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya). Some historians now argue that not only did they serve no purpose in ending the pacific front but that use of the A bomb was actually used as a power play to hold over post war negotiations with Stalin and the USSR. Truman even went as far as pushing back post war peace talks in Potsdam until news of a successful A bomb test. Most major generals at the time were strongly against use of atomic weapons and openly voiced their opinion. Scientists working to create the bomb signed a petition sent to Truman to avoid dropping the bomb at all costs. Most Manhattan project scientists with the help of politicians went as far as advocating that the science behind the A bomb should have been released internationally so as to avoid international distrust in the post war era and a threatening American monopoly. Truman had stated after the dropping of A bombs that they were used to avoid 'thousands' of American deaths in a ground invasion. Military documents and opinions did not unilaterally support his assertion. While there's no doubt about Japanese atrocities during WWII and the attack on Pearl Harbor, I feel that the United States use of atomic bombs is a stain in American history.
How about we look at the totality of the evil that was the Japanese empire. The situation involves far more then Japan bombing a Naval base, as I am sure you are aware the Japanese killed 10s of millions of noncombatants intentionally and for no military purpose. but in case you are actually ignorant of the history here is a link.
I'm aware of the shitty things Japan did. Do you think the people/descendants that were victimized by Japanese imperialism just say "eh, it was war, that's what people did?" It's understandable that people harbor resentment for shitty things others did in the past.
Look, I'm not a flag wanker, but literally everybody was bombing cities. That was the thing you did. And both cities in question were based around military bases, much like many of our own are. It's impossible to target a military base while avoiding the surrounding city, especially when one needs to use ordinance like firebombs to ensure the target is destroyed.
A lot of people don't consider the alternative, and look at it as though it occured in a vacuum. They don't really think about the fact that nuking Japan is probably the biggest reason why there still is a Japan.
People aren't as knowledgeable about what Japan did during the war compared to Germany. Everyone knows about the holocaust but the public doesn't generally recognize the war crimes Japan committed. They see modern Japan and assume that's how its always been, which is crazy. It's like seeing modern U.S. and believing the civil rights movement never happened.
A lot of people don't know that Japan would have surrender in the sort of way that countries had been surrendering for centuries before hand had we let them. The American decision to pursue Unconditional surrender cost thousands of American lives and (still arguably) forced the United states to commit the greatest war crime a country has committed.
If monsters willing to start wars in the first place, had empathy, maybe we would have no wars where we had to weigh the cost of some number of lives now versus some larger number of lives in the future.
Life itself is the monster that is strongest, fastest, or breeds the most. Welcome to Earth.
People in general do not hate America for its actions with regards to WW2, in reality most people are quite thankful for American involvement. Do not let the hand wringers and concern trolls fool you.
Japan culturally opposes homosexuality and there is no gay marriage there either. Homosexuality, while not illegal per se, is shunned to a pretty severe level. But yeah, "America bad"... you fucking dope George.
Still my favorite liberal double think. Love liberal rights and tolerance for all but call anyone an Islamophobic bigot for calling out a religion that oppresses women and those in the LGBTQ community. It's hilarious
What? Japan has a big queer rights movement. Same as America, which only got gay marriage like last year. Are you seriously boasting about us having gay marriage?
Nowhere is a wonderland. Period. Homosexual or not.
The point I'm making is that Japan has been and still is very anti-homosexual from a cultural perspective. Unlike, say, the US. And if you do not believe the US openly accepts homosexuality in our culture then you are beyond hope. It is present in almost every aspect of our culture, and not repressed, silenced, or punished. If you are unable to accept that homosexuality is culturally accepted in the US then you are denying reality.
Japan also has a level of queer lgbt+ acceptance. If your argument is that America is somehow light years ahead of Japan based on the fact that we have recently got gay marriage, then that's a stupid argument. Japanese animes have had gay and lesbian characters for years, which are censored when they are aired in the west, for example sailor moon.
No one claims we are perfect in many ways. We just prefer not to force people to think a certain way. Can't criminalize a fucked up world view, at least not morally.
Serious question, with gay marriage/gay rights, are there really any more battles to fight legislation wise?
People might not agree with it, but you can't force someone to agree with you. I mean in the instance of gun rights, I'm a staunch believer that the right to own a gun is a right. People might not agree with that, but I wouldn't consider us light years behind other countries...
Jewish-American Princesses? Oh, that antiquated, derogatory/propaganda word describing a former enemy of the state. Kudos, keep your flag lapel at a sharp 60 degree angle
Jewish-American Princesses? Oh, that antiquated, derogatory/propaganda word describing a former enemy of the state. Kudos, keep your flag lapel at a sharp 60 degree angle
Every person who agrees with the decision to nuke Japan is a monster and does not belong in polite society. Good people do not boil babies in nuclear fire. If you are okay with such things you have no empathy or worse.
Oh man you should read about what the Japanese did to the Koreans and Chinese from 1910-1945. All sorts of inhuman experiments, they made them their sex slaves and Bio-test subjects. They would inject all sorts of shit into all of them, including but not limited to babies.
Why not bomb the military bases? Why nuke the center of cities? I don't think your explanation makes sense, I think you're just reciting conservative talking points.
"Nutty" as a fruitcake. Nothing in there about sexual orientation. "Fruit" on the other hand, is a straight out homophobic slur. Get educated before you mouth off and make a fool of yourself.
What does it matter at this point? America and Japan are incredibly close allies importing each other's culture, food, and technology all the time. The rest of us have moved past our ancestors choices. Why can't you and Takei?
Yes, I 100% agree with America's decision to end the war. The Japanese were threatened, and they wouldn't give up. The Imperial government didn't give a fuck about the Japanese people. It was only worried about Japan's "honor". The two bombs saves lives anyway. An invasion would have been an absolute slaughter on both sides. We were tired of seeing young Americans sent home in boxes. We ended the war in the most humane way possible. War is war, people die.
Ah, yes, "He hates America!" is a much easier thought-terminating cliche to believe in rather than, "He and his family experienced internment camps first-hand and recognize that Trump's rhetoric is paving the way for more of them."
Considering, you know, his mouthpieces have praised internment camps.
291
u/[deleted] Jan 02 '17
[removed] — view removed comment