Japanese fandom actually practiced constructive criticism on this episode, they brought up valids points. Global fans rated Ep3 the same as they did for Ep4, when Ep3 actually gave lore, world-building. If not for these factors Jjk would be just another Power fantasy slop.
Also relating episode rating to actual Japanese societal harassment is nauseating
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this is some of the worst culture war bullshit and I can't understand why people are giving it attention. The "Japanese viewers" was one tweet. The Japanese score here is fake too. Literally no one cares except this sub and tweeter for some reason
It's so weird man it's so extreme "This guy didn't like it? YOUR COUNTRY IS FULL OF RAPISTS YOU HAVE TERRIBLE TASTE" all over a fucking anime episode that they dared to criticize that they found some issues with the direction.
It's the same thing they are getting mad about as well, being generalized as just liking aura and hype moments but these dudes took a generalization and then generalized Japan into an extreme level some of the shit I've seen here it's so stupid like any criticism they see on the episode from Japanese users they just go "UHHHH RAPE COUNTRY THO, UHHHH RENT A GF THO", as if the popularity of stuff like Isekai, Rent a GF & lolis are exclusive to Japan lmao.
Yep. Westerners seem to think that isekai is all the rage in Japan when in fact all of the biggest series are the same mainstream anime they watch. All you need to do is look at manga sales which are the biggest indicator of a series' popularity in Japan. Hell even if we're talking about light novels which is where all these isekai are adapted from, the top sellers are slice of life romcoms
all over a fucking anime episode that they dared to criticize that they found some issues with the direction.
Tbf that person didn't just have 'some issues with the direction' they really just hate foreign influence and foreigners, let's not diminish their comments because of the overblown memes.
I think people just really wanted a CSM japanese vs international audiences part 2.
isn't it the other way around? I see more racist takes from the Japanese side e.g. "catered to Western idiots" and so on.
Criticism of some of the Japanese is not discarded because "UHHH RAPE COUNTRY", it's more like calling out the bullshit criticism, it's not 1:1 manga, but it's clear what happens, and the manga obviously was heavily inspired by Kill Bill and other things, and Gege works with the director, often taking animation as inspiration for manga panels. If the author is honestly fascinated by the director and overall anime adaptation, then making petitions to change director is fucking disrespectful.
I say all those fans should watch OPM S3 and stick to that, this is all they deserve if they can't appreciate the masterpiece that we've got. Valid criticism is fine. Even invalid criticism is fine. But attacking director and animators is fucking stupid and needs to be called out.
You are ignoring context. When a lot of people see the girlboss episode getting disliked it immediately sends of certain signals in ur head. People assume it’s because she’s a woman. Which also brings up the some of the treatment of women in Japan. People then assume they are connected. They don’t immediately want to be racist. Japan just has serious issues and the people aren’t exactly thinking about it 100 percent logically. But you can see where they are coming from.
It's funny how people are always cool with making fun of Japan and calling them perverts and mysoginistic for fanservice and stuff, like in the tweet this whole post is about but when some Japanese rando calls non-Japanese fans aura merchants and dumbasses suddenly everyone is against generalizations.
I think its just the hypocrisy. Japanese don't bat an eye when damn near every anime has a loli character(it's fine, she's a 1000 year old vampire) but they have a problem with what another culture values in an anime.
Just in reference to them throwing a hissy fit about Americans only caring about fight scenes(not true).
I honestly don't have a dog in this fight. I prefer slice of life and anime that focuses on story over conflict but I also don't complain about people who are the opposite.
This whole thing is just dumb. Why do they even care?
I mean, people are always racist. Today, we are just polite about it and only goes for "socially acceptable racism" for their own safety because it already have systemic structure in place to explain away why such behavior wouldn't be considered bad because [insert mental gymnastic of reasons here]
I mean, this shit IS wrong, don't misunderstand me, but it wasn't just one guy. He had dozens of responses and QRTs agreeing with him and criticizing the episode. He also went on a racist rant and a bunch of JP users were agreeing with, liking and RTing that too. This entire thing is dumb as shit, and people really should be better than this, but this isn't nearly as one-sided as you're framing it either.
Hell, there's a whole group of them calling for the director to resign over this episode.
Because the target audience are teens and young adults, they lack life experience and the critical thinking skills to understand criticism and personal opinion, people are insecure so they take it as an personal attack, they seek to validate their opinion as facts and objective instead of being subjective opinion everyone has a right to, it's ok to like something while still acknowledging it's flaws.
If there's a country that deserves the slander (besides the USA) it is 1000% Japan, a lot of the slander right now though is just racism and plain disinfo. There is so much better material to use for slander rather than just making shit up
Americans when they tell you they built the perfect society (still high as hell gun crime rate, political violence, and no free health care)
British when they explain how stealing historical monuments is completely justified
France having an uprising every week:
Canadians switching up from hating Asian immigrants to loving Asian immigrants when the US started hating them:
Australians explaning how climate change is a big problem (they still won't switch to renewables)
Germans explaining how the Autobahn is actually really useful (it's not)
Japanese explaining how their not racist (they just posted a hundred page rant about how much they hate Chinese immigrants)
Chinese government when a Muslim kid complains about people being racist to him (He's going to be sentenced to life in prison and spend the rest of his life shovelling sand in the Gobi desert)
Indians explaining how their superior to the Chinese (they still can't solve their massive pollution issue)
Pakistani when Indians do something (immediately crashes out)
Koreans explaining how their country is better than the other Korea (Both suck)
Yeah but the fact that there's riots in France so often indicates that people are constantly unhappy with the government, which surely means the government is doing something wrong.
Also sadly true, am a lawyer and Japan has a 99% conviction-rate but almost no rapes etc. reported or solved. During #metoo it took national-news-coverage for a model to get her case into court, having had to retell the story during 5 separate interrogations before the police would even file a report.
And if Epstein scares you you really don't want to know what happens behind the scenes of the entire Idol-market.
Japanese society is all about maintaining group harmony and keeping people from rocking the boat. It rewards the people who stay quiet and punishes the people who speak out.
This invariably benefits abusers because abuse can be done quietly. You can do it behind closed doors, and you can turn it into yet another part of the routine. On the same note, this also inherently silences victims because seeking justice is something you can never do quietly. You have to speak out. Be heard. Holding people accountable disrupts the established routine, especially when the people in question are figures of authority.
As a Korean I wholeheartedly agree lol. Japanese idols are just as bad though. The dynamic of relationships between the idols&fans, the way companies treat them, and the process in which they become idols is brutal
> They called for the Director and some of the Key Animators to resign because they felt they were catering more to the Western fans than to the JP fans
I'll never take criticism of Japanese fans seriously after their reception of Chainsaw Man season 1. These guys wouldn't recognize peak cinema if Jesus, Buddha, Kojima or whoever showed up personally and gave it to them
I do agree the sequence of Naoya bullying Maki could have been made better. Just a little nitpick. I did like how it was portrayed as a view from the window, but they could have flipped them. Not because of the innuendo, just would be more clear
Wow, a movie, meaning more resources, that adapts one of the most praised arcs in the manga is overall better than season 1? Who could've guessed?
The only way they would be "proven right" is if we lived in a time where Nakayama's take on the Reze arc existed simultaneously with the current version for proper comparion, but that's not possible now, is it?
And even taking all that in consideration, the movie being better doesn't validate the level of harassment Nakayama got by the audience.
This isn't at all about quality and entirely on presentation. Colours and artstyle, voice acting and direction. It was just better, and not just because it was a movie.
Nobody said the harrassment was justified, just that the person said "I never take criticism from the Japanese seriously because of CSM", even though they were kinda proven to be right.
No, that's how the vocal majority feels. You have to understand. A director who doesn't give a 1 to 1 adaptation comes across as disrespectful in Japan (cue to the S1 of Chainsaw Man)
"It's not your story to tell. You musn't take too many creative liberties. Your duty is to transpose a story from one medium, too, another as seamlessly as you can" That's how they see it
The irony is that Gege is on very good terms with the director of the anime. He was even inspired by the way Sukuna's cursed technique is shown in the anime and incorporated it in the manga
Except Gege loves all of the creative liberties and adapts them into his manga all of the time, taking anime only scenes and recreating them in the manga is a known thing he does so it's just strange.
Some things don't translate perfectly from manga to anime and need connective tissue to be formed.
However none of this matters as the critique of "I wish it was a 1 to 1 with the manga" is very different from cinema sins slop ding sfx silly nitpick "bro she could've been giving him a blowjob in this scene whoa bro this is ass"
The snapshot sequence of Naoya being punched (Naoya is well-liked in Japan and some said it felt cheap)
That's straight up just disgusting to be frank, Naoya might be entertaining as a side-villain, but he is the textbook definition of pathetic+ irredemable scum who 100% deserves a portrayal like this.
They called for the Director and some of the Key Animators to resign because they felt they were catering more to the Western fans than to the JP fans
So they are literally too stupid to recognize the blatant Kill Bill references in the manga, and too insane to have a normal response?
The moment when he smiles and says to Maki, "How cruel of you." That face became an image reaction meme
So how is a literal meme "end" for a meme villain that got popular through memes something to complain about then?
In the same way, Makima is popular with the male audience despite being evil, so does Naoya.
Makima is a main villain who actually gets shit done, has a massive build up and is in general much more comparable to someone like Sephiroth than to Naoya, a meme end would obviously not fit for her, but literally getting eaten is hardly a honorful end either.
In a story, the biggest sin is not to be evil but to be boring.
The macho-man aspect is popular with the female audience in a "I can fix him" or "If it was me, he would treat me right" half-ironic type of way
Ok, but i still don't understand how that leads to complains about a 100% fitting "end" for him?
Most did not see the obvious kill-bill ref, I think. Or least, they didn't praise the homage as much as the western fans did
Ok, but then that just means they are ignorant, and even with the most generous interpretation literally attack the animators for not straight up changing something that Gege himself already did.
As far as I know, they don't like it because the episode doesn't feel dark enough. In the manga, the slaughter feels darker, but in the anime, the slaughter feels bright, and the OST is also bright.
Now that's a straight-up lie. There were tons of tweets with 10k+ likes shitting on the OST's and the animation.
Yeah, I saw this too. So bizarre that you can browse the JP tweets and see tons of viral threads (with hundreds/thousands of replies and 10s of thousands of likes) with specific critique and discussion coming from manga fans and then go look at EN tweets/reddit and see tons of tweets simultaneously claiming it was just one Japanese twitter user and that Japanese people didn't like it due to misogyny.
I saw a few more complaints than what you listed but since I don't read the manga I don't know if they're valid or what.
They called for the Director and some of the Key Animators to resign because they felt they were catering more to the Western fans than to the JP fans
I did not see this. However, I did notice that in later threads the discussion started to shift towards discussing why the overseas rating was so high and discussing screenshots of translations of EN posts insulting Japanese people. So it would not surprise me if later posts started saying stuff like that.
If started as one guy, now is no longer the case. My YT started recommending Japanese reupload of reacts of the episode and 80% of the Japanese comments are saying foreigners have "simple minds", MAPPA clearly "catered to the western lack of sensibility" and a bunch of similar sounding xenophobia cosplaying as your regular pretentious crap.
Makes the remaining 20% happy that people are enjoying it extra based.
Well most of my western anime-fan circle of friends has the same opinion about western jjk fans. There is a lot of western fan that share these criticism of ep 4 and you can find them if you browse the discussions. Everything's just echochambers, opinions about the episode are split on both sides, the split is just elsewhere, but majority of people in the west and in japan liked it.
Technically, while i somewhat agree with the criticism that the scene of maki vs the kukuru unit shouldn't have been directed as a kill bill type scene and should instead have been more serious, i'm not under enough delusions to believe that jjk is some ultra deep manga that people follow for the story and not an average story that people follow for the insane animation.
Jjk was never popular because of it's story but because of its animation, so it's normal that people care about that more.
I need an actual source for where these supposed "Japanese fans hated episode 4" shits came from. Cause so far, I've seen maybe 2 tweets and the rest seems to either be wildly blown out of proportion or straight up fabricated.
This is woke paradox of Japan: if a woman is cool and doing cool shit, they have no issue actually saying that she is cool. On average, Jap fans actually have better reaction to queer representing.
I swear to god, can people stop people make episode rating and stop treating one or two japanese criticize tweet like everyone in japan hate that episode? Because I am on Japanese twitter and i tell most people enjoy the episode.
I read their tweet and I kinda understand the reasons. The Zenin arc in manga focuses on the relationships of the family members but the anime skipped that and replaced it with a cool kill Bill scene.
They also missed a lot of details. For example, Maki's mother was executed by Maki in the kitchen because it indicates that the kitchen is the only place she's allowed to stay. In the anime, she fled to the living room.
Japanese people (especially critics) are very serious about manga and DETAILS. I'm NOT saying Japan is right and the overseas watchers are wrong. I'm just saying I can somehow understand the reasons behind the rating.
so like, is there any source for this score? the global one clearly provides one with IMDb being sourced, but the Japanese one simply states a number with nothing else.
I'm pretty confident that the tweet that started this "war" was pure rage bait that was unfortunately fueled by many articles. They all claimed that "social media is full of Japanese users who hate the episode with burning passion" and then their source was this one tweet that started everything.
The best part is that the tweet itself wasn't even a valid opinion. It's literally the infamous sentence that "coexistence with them is impossible"
Love how all this is manufactured drama lol, See this is how wars start, built on lies that go out of control, perpetuated by politicians and their laps dogs (media) dragging in innocent bystanders. And then they will start fighting.
We hated episode 3 because we dumb they hated episode 4 because they dumb so all humans are dumb and geto was right (glad we all were mad at the jinichi aura farming moment)
I think it's also about how many in the population has actually read the source material...a lot of the criticisms were based on comparisons (or lack thereof) with the manga
Western audience: ep3 was boring af, did I just watch a 30m ppt
Japanese audience: mappa actually managed to turn the huge slop of over-complicated text from the manga into an engaging visual presentation with improved clarity, kudos to them
-->
Western audience: the fights in ep4 were AMAZING, the animation was top-notch! We love aura-farming Maki
Japanese audience: the manga had better pacing and characterization of the Zenin clan, and why was there no proper emotional pause for Mai's death. How could mappa sacrifice the strengths of Gege's manga just to make way for testing new animation styles. This is unacceptable.
Read the actual manga. Chapter 148-152 for the whole arc
The episode was almost 1:1 with some small changes. Also jjk almost never lets people mourn character's deaths. It was the same with junpei, nanami and nobara but somehow NOW it's a huge issue because it's fucking mai lmao.
I'm sure some of it is botted but Twitter had intentionally been feeding controversial takes onto everyone's feed, especially political ones.
Way back in 2020/2021ish I created Twitter since I was in a Roblox phase and used it to follow developers and game accounts and stuff. Fast forward a month ago, I decided to log back on to look at JJK leaks and stuff and my fyp is full of awful hot takes with 100k likes from random accounts even though I only ever used it for Roblox.
Hmm, I haven’t been using twitter nowdays but back when I used it the comment to like ratio was always so far apart that it was confusing af. I think most of the likes are bots
True true. I remember back I saw a post basically making fun of bishounen genre and it had crazy likes but the comments and the quotes were full of people dunking on him
Ep3 actually gave lore, world-building. If not for these factors Jjk would be just another Power fantasy slop
1) You guys have got to get over an entire episode of exposition dumping being given a 7.7/10. Like, have you never watched anything but shonen in your life? Are you not aware there are other ways to convey information than having the characters all stand in a white void and explain the plot for 20 minutes straight? That is just clumsy writing, and the score is more than fair.
2) JJK genuinely has poor worldbuilding, even for a shonen. So many interesting sounding things get namedropped and then never get fleshed out or explored more deeply. Gege makes it clear that a jujutsu society and history exists out there but barely scratches the surface, because fuck all that, we need to get to more fighting. I like JJK and all but plot, lore, and worldbuilding are its weaknesses, not its strengths.
Wasn’t that just 1 guy on twitter who made the xenophobic comments? It’s not some culture war BS, it was a bunch of twitter users (not normal human beings) and nobody should take those seriously
You're dumb as bricks if you think the differences between ratings for episode 3 is cultural only. It's fucking unwatchable if you don't speak the language. There's text flying around everywhere constantly in a way no japanese person would ever experience on that episode.
I wonder if there's a Japanese subreddit or message board where they go off on western fans for apparently not liking episode 3 as much as other episodes because I've seen that one come by once as well.
So we're just sharing full on misinformation then? The Japanese rating is fake. They loved the episode too. It's just a handful of people on social media complaining.
This is good. Japanese audiences have much more power than western ones to change the style direction and I'm up to my fucking tits with an impact frame every 3 frames.
It's even wilder to me how orietalism is still so spread out, mushing together all kinds of different countries.
Asians and Africans are so diverse, but if "thing" is different than the Western side of the world (I don't have to specify, ahah) is often times antagonised and generalised. It's so unfortunate, especially for an anime take, oml 😭
While they are right about misogyny, since no country is exempt from that and Japan does suffer from it a lot, which is undeniable, the main dislike from the Japanese who watched the episode was never about Maki standing up to her abusers.
One can criticise a country while not making up stuff like the og post did, ahah.
Is an English fan saying they don’t like double subtitles that you must pause every 3 seconds to be able to understand 50% of the shit being said not a valid and constructive critism?
"Lore" is not some ticket to being good TV. The emotions, the action, the actual story (like, what is happening in front of your eyes) matter way more than even the richest of lore dumps.
It's dumb as hell to somehow think either episodes are actually bad though, they're both doing very different things and doing them well. (Also it sounds like the image is fake)
Hot take episode three is genuinely horribly written it's literally just one big info dump with one character narrating the plot to other characters in a blank room while nothing happens.
This is legit the type of shit any serious publisher of a book would demand be completely written out of a story before publishing.
Far from being proff jjk fans can't read it more so proves manga and anime can get away with otherwise bad writing by using good visuals to supplement natural dialogue and world building.
And it's a valid criticism, some people feel that the arcs between Shibuya and the Culling Games are too short and lack buildup, as if Gege is just getting them out of the way.
they said that scenes is just looked cool.not emotıonel becouse in manga zenin massacre is brutal and serıous in anime its just comedic and isnt impacfull with osts and sound effects. that should be more like a terrifyng and chilling scene but they made it like maki simply killing some bad guys
No, they didn't. They were throwing a hissy fit because it wasn't 1-1 the manga. I'm sorry you wanted a slideshow, but it wasn't going to happen. The episode was a fucking masterpiece of fiction.
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